Hon. Wayne Easter - 15:49
Hon. Wayne Easter - 15:49
Hon. Ed Fast - 15:49

Lib. (ON)
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That was more than a yes-or-no question, and let me just say—
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Hon. Ed Fast - 15:50

Lib. (ON)
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As I understand the rules, Mr. Fast, my answer can be the same length as your question.
Is that correct?
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 15:50

Lib. (ON)
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Let me just say a quick point on the jobs numbers, because I think those are something that all of us are deeply concerned about. I sure am. Let me say that today 636,000 Canadians who had a job before COVID struck don't have a job.
I think the most urgent priority of our government and this entire House needs to be to provide the economic support to get them back to work.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 15:50
Hon. Ed Fast - 15:50

Lib. (ON)
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I'm delighted to answer that question, Mr. Fast. Yes, the limit that we are seeking with Bill C-14 is $1.831 trillion.
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Hon. Ed Fast - 15:51

Lib. (ON)
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As you know very well, Mr. Fast, having served in cabinet, a borrowing authority increase is not the same as spending authority. What it does is set a ceiling for how much the government can spend.
In terms of the composition of that number and how we got there, I would like to turn the attention of all committee members to page 141 and chart A2.3 in the fall economic statement. I can hold it up to show you guys the page. That has a very specific breakdown of how we got to that number.
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Hon. Ed Fast - 15:52

Lib. (ON)
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Mr. Fast, I know that Canadians are really smart and really sophisticated and I urge everyone who's listening to this to look at page 141, chart A2.3, where how that borrowing authority amount is composed is laid out very specifically.
I want to address something very precise here. The increase in the borrowing authority is in no way a blank cheque. Every single expenditure by the government needs to be authorized by Parliament. The borrowing authority sets a transparent and accountable maximum limit as to how much the government can borrow.
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Hon. Ed Fast - 15:53
Hon. Wayne Easter - 15:54

Lib. (ON)
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Let me just say to Mr. Fast that I have far too much respect for him, and I really do have a lot of respect for him, to think that he really believes the borrowing authority is in any way equivalent to a blank cheque or a line of credit.
What the borrowing authority limit does is it sets a limit on the maximum amount a government may borrow. There is a quite separate process, which this committee is intimately involved with, for debating and authorizing the specific spending that the government undertakes, and I look forward to having that discussion with all of you.
Again, for interested Canadians and committee members, look at chart A2.3 for the composition of how we got to that $1.8 trillion number for the borrowing authority limit.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 15:55
Peter Fragiskatos - 15:55

Lib. (ON)
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Mr. Fragiskatos, thank you very much for that question. I agree with you. It is a very important one and it is one that is very much on the minds of all Canadians.
You have referred to PPE. That's an important element. Clearly, vaccines are another very important element.
Let me speak to a third issue, which I think has become very clear to Canadians in the course of this pandemic, and that is biomanufacturing capacity here in Canada. We have fantastic researchers. We have fantastic life scientists in our amazing country. What we don't have enough of is the ability to actually manufacture the vaccines that they play a central role in developing. I'm thinking of Acuitas as an example, an amazing B.C. company that plays a key role in the development and the production of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.
One of the things that our government is working on, in close collaboration with provinces and territories across the country, is stepping up our game and investing in biomanufacturing across the country, whether it is VIDO-InterVac in Saskatchewan, whether it is Medicago or whether it is the NRC. I think that's an effort that all of us will agree is important and that we need to continue down that path.
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Peter Fragiskatos - 15:57
Julie Dzerowicz - 15:58

Lib. (ON)
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Thank you very much, Ms. Dzerowicz. It's great to see you.
That is such an important question, and in my opening remarks I spoke about the additional support that Bill C-14 would give to families with young children. I added a personal plea—not in my written remarks—because I have to say, my youngest child is now 11 and it is challenging having children, even in elementary school, in a pandemic. Virtual school is hard for kids, but my heart just goes out to all the young families in Canada with a child under six. It is so hard. I have had people, constituents, neighbours, just crying when they talk about how difficult it is.
As you know, one terrible consequence we've seen is women quitting their jobs, dropping out of the labour force because they just can't keep it all going. Bill C-14 will give those families with the youngest children in our country a bit of extra help. As we said in the fall economic statement, we really believe now is the moment for us as a country, after 50 years of talking about it, to finally put our shoulder to the wheel and to build universal early learning and child care across Canada.
Here, I do think all of us have to offer a chapeau, figuratively, to our colleagues from Quebec who have shown the way. They have shown that affordable, high-quality universal child care has a huge economic impact. Quebec has a much higher participation of women in the labour force than the rest of Canada, about 4% higher. There is a great economic benefit, not to mention that it makes life so much easier for families with young children.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:01
Gabriel Ste-Marie - 16:01

Lib. (ON)
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Thank you for your question and for your hard work on all the economic issues. I truly appreciate it.
I don't want to announce the date of the budget today, but I can assure you here in committee that there will be a budget this spring. I agree with the members of this committee that it's important for our country. I spoke with you about your ideas on the budget, and would like to tell the members and financial spokespersons for each party that I'm very open to hearing what they have to suggest in connection with the budget. I believe that the budget needs to be for the whole country, because the pandemic has been affecting the entire country.
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Gabriel Ste-Marie - 16:04

Lib. (ON)
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Thank you for your question, Mr. Ste-Marie.
With respect to support for families, individuals and businesses, the federal government has been there for Quebecers and all Canadians. We were happy for Canada to be in a financial position that made it possible to do so.
I would also like to point out that in the summer, we gave an additional $19 billion directly to the provinces and territories under the Safe Restart Agreement and an additional $2 billion for reopening schools. The safe restart funding was in large measure for health spending by the provinces and territories to combat COVID-19.
As I mentioned in my opening address, Bill C-14 will provide more funding to the provinces. There will also be measures to help support residential and long-term care centres, or CHSLDs, because we understand just how important they are.
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Lib. (ON)
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Last Friday, I had a discussion with the provincial and territorial ministers of finance, including Mr. Girard, Quebec's minister of finance. I was very happy, moreover, to be able to thank him publicly for his sincere and frank collaboration. He's an excellent colleague. We discussed what else the federal government might be able to do to help the provinces and territories, particularly with respect to combatting COVID-19. I told the ministers of finance…
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:07
Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:07

Lib. (ON)
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I didn't know that either, Wayne. I'm a little scared. My technical capacity might be stretched by that kind of effort.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:07
Peter Julian - 16:32

Lib. (ON)
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Thank you, Mr. Julian, for raising all of those important issues.
I'll start with the wage subsidy. If I have time, I'll say a couple of things about long-term care.
On the wage subsidy, I hear your concerns. It is important for companies to understand that, legally, the wage subsidy can only be used to pay employees. It can't be used for any other purposes. Any allegations of misuse should be reported to the CRA. There are penalties for misuse of the wage subsidy. It is an additional 25% penalty and potentially imprisonment, in cases of fraud.
It was and is important for us to have that support out there, but we do take abuses seriously.
The other thing I would say about the wage subsidy is that my priority, at the end of the day, is to keep as many Canadians working as possible. Our supports—and I would say the ingenuity and resilience of Canadians—mean that we are getting through this unprecedented global pandemic.
However, at the end of the day, there are still 636,000 Canadians who don't have a job today who had one before the virus hit. For that reason, our objective has been and continues to be to have in place the most comprehensive set of supports we can to keep people working. The wage subsidy is a really important program in that regard because it keeps people connected to their jobs.
As you know very well, Mr. Julian, that is so important for a person's sense of self-worth and dignity. Also, if one becomes long-term unemployed, it is much harder to get back into the workforce. That's the rationale there.
I could say more about long-term care, but I see you wanting to talk and maybe I've run out of time.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:37
Peter Julian - 16:37

Lib. (ON)
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Mr. Julian, I'm really glad you raised students. In my opening remarks, I singled out the importance of Bill C-14 in allowing us to provide more support for students. It is really important to me, and you're right to raise the issue.
What I would say, collectively, is that we need to understand that the three groups that have been hardest hit by losing their jobs are youth, women and low-wage workers—particularly racialized and new Canadians. We need to be sure that our support is targeted there.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:38
Hon. Ed Fast - 16:38

Lib. (ON)
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No, Mr. Fast, I'm afraid I would not.
Let me just say a couple of things. Canadians can see this chart because it was published in the fall economic statement. It's available to anyone who would like to go online and look at the fall economic statement. For wonkish people who are watching our deliberations, let me point you to page 141 and chart A2.3.
What this chart shows is how we got to the number of $1.831 trillion for the borrowing authority we are seeking. It shows the composition of it, and I think that was important to show and people should refer to it. I can go through the chart, if people would like.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:40
Hon. Ed Fast - 16:40

Lib. (ON)
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Mr. Fast, there's a lot in there. Let me parse it and respond to the various points you've raised in the time allotted.
To your first point, that the borrowing authority is quite different from a budget, you are 100% right, Mr. Fast. That's a really important distinction. In seeking an increase of the borrowing authority, we are being extremely transparent. We are saying that this is the upper limit up to which the government may borrow.
We are not saying that the government will undertake those borrowings, nor are we saying anything about government spending. That's entirely separate. That happens through the fall economic statement. It happens through Bill C-14, which we're debating today, and it will happen through the budget. That's entirely right.
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Hon. Ed Fast - 16:42

Lib. (ON)
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Mr. Fast, you've answered your own question with your previous question. It's very important to make a clear distinction, as you did in your first question, between the borrowing authority and actual spending authorities. We are very clear on that distinction. Canadians should be clear on it too.
The only other thing I would say is that, when it comes to spending authorities, our government has been clear that we believe, during COVID, it is important to do whatever it takes to support Canadians and Canadian businesses. We're open and transparent about that. I hope that all members of this committee will agree with that. Canadians need us to be there for them. That's why they made Bill C-14.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:43
Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:44

Lib. (ON)
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I have a very quick response, Mr. Chair, which is simply to say, with really great respect for Mr. Fast, that the characterization of the borrowing authority limit as a blank cheque is simply false. This is a transparent and open authorization of a level up to which the government may borrow. Spending authorizations are separate.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:44
Michael McLeod - 16:44

Lib. (ON)
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Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod—Michael, as I call you in less formal settings. It's great to see you.
You prefaced your remarks by explaining to us a little bit about how things are going in the Northwest Territories and how people have handled COVID. You suggested a collective pat on the back, and let me just say, speaking from the south, to you, Mr. McLeod, and to all the people of the Northwest Territories, I think all of us in the south should be patting all of you on the back.
The way that the Northwest Territories has handled this global pandemic is really admirable and a real example for the rest of the country. The approach you took required a lot of sacrifice from individual people in the Northwest Territories. It required an acceptance of some real restrictions on travel outside of the territories, and you guys are quite rightly reaping the benefits of that disciplined approach. I collectively pat you all on the back. Bravo.
You're also quite right—
An hon. member: But—
Hon. Chrystia Freeland: Did you want to respond, Mr. McLeod?
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Michael McLeod - 16:48

Lib. (ON)
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Okay.
Mr. McLeod, I was also going to say that you're quite right. We have been working closely with the governments of the Northwest Territories, Yukon and Nunavut, and have increased their borrowing authorities at the territorial level. They have put in important measures to fight COVID, and we've supported them in that.
Part of Bill C-14, as we have been discussing, is an increase in the federal government's borrowing authority. We legislated our government that every three years we would publicly and transparently review our borrowing limit. That three-year timeline is up, and that's why we have now come to Parliament and this committee to say that we need to increase the borrowing authority limit so that the government has the space to continue fighting COVID.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:49
Michael McLeod - 16:49

Lib. (ON)
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That's another great question.
Bill C-14 includes an additional $206.7 million for the RDAs precisely to meet that need.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:50
Gabriel Ste-Marie - 16:50

Lib. (ON)
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That's an excellent question, Mr. Ste-Marie.
I have spoken directly with Mr. Summers and Ms. Yellen, who have been participating in the debate.
My view is that the debate needs to address another question as well. It's not only a matter of government spending, but also a question of what is covered by this spending. As an economist, you know very well that an expenditure that is an investment in the country's economic capacity is very different from an expenditure that does not constitute such an investment.
As for the level of spending for Canada, I must say that one of the first questions we look at is whether it will add to the country's capacity for economic growth, and if so, whether it will create jobs.
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Gabriel Ste-Marie - 16:52
Peter Julian - 16:53

Lib. (ON)
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I'm going to offer two responses.
When it comes to our thinking about the budget, our overarching priority is jobs and growth. More than 600,000 Canadians who had a job before the pandemic don't have one today. That's a tragedy for each person and for their families. I wake up in the morning and I think about how we can get those jobs back. The answer in my view is economic growth.
When it comes to taxation, I would disagree with you in characterizing the measures announced in the fall economic statement as being not weighty. We will levy a tax on the international digital giants, and there is real momentum at the OECD to get this done. The Biden administration has created an opportunity to get this done at the multilateral level. That is huge. That is transformative for the international tax framework, and our government is very involved in this.
Finally, because I see our chair moving around in his seat a little, when it comes to overseas tax havens and tax avoidance, I very much agree with you. At a time when so many Canadians have suffered, we have to have zero tolerance for tax avoidance and tax evasion, and our government is committed to that and to strengthening those rules.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 16:56
Pat Kelly - 16:56

Lib. (ON)
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If what you're getting at, Mr. Kelly, is the question of newly formed businesses not being able to get access to all government programs, you're quite right that they're not.
There has been a real effort to strike a balance between having integrity of programs by not creating incentives for people to create vehicles to receive government support, and supporting businesses. This is substantive. I believe we need to support newly created businesses, not only with HASCAP but with the rent subsidy, with wage support, and I would like you guys to help me do that.
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Pat Kelly - 16:57
Tamara Jansen - 16:58

Lib. (ON)
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Ms. Jansen, I'm very glad to have you mention the creation of our task force on women in the economy. We are going to have our first meeting this week. I am really looking forward to it.
I'm glad to hear you talk about the she-cession. Women are one of the groups that have been the hardest hit by this COVID recession, and we're committed to supporting them.
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Tamara Jansen - 16:58

Lib. (ON)
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There are a bunch of questions jammed in together there.
Let me just say that, absolutely, I have been holding many meetings and conversations with women entrepreneurs and with women economists. Our government is putting support for women at the centre of our economic policy and our fight against COVID.
When it comes to the border and travel, our priority is and needs to be protecting the health and safety of Canadians. That is what we are doing right now. If other parties disagree with that, then I think it's important for other parties to be open with Canadians that this is their position.
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Tamara Jansen - 17:00

Lib. (ON)
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Canada's border policy is guided by science, and Canadian borders will be reopened when it is safe for them to be fully reopened. That's the reality.
I also want to say, when it comes to the border, particularly with the Canada-U.S. border, a real success, and this speaks to Canada and the U.S. working together—
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Tamara Jansen - 17:00
Hon. Wayne Easter - 17:00

Lib. (ON)
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A very important success that we should all note has been to limit non-essential travel but to allow trade to continue.
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Hon. Wayne Easter - 17:00