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View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Welcome back, everyone, to clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-10. This is meeting number 40.
(On clause 7)
The Chair: As you know from the last meeting, we left off with amendment PV-21.1.
Ms. McPherson, you have your hand up. Is there something I can address?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Okay, just for everyone's edification, the motion has been deemed moved by Mr. Manly. The motion is from what we call an independent or unrecognized party, which, in this case, is the Parti Vert, the Green Party. That is what we're discussing right now because it is deemed moved.
I was committed to you, Ms. McPherson, last time with regard to doing your motion, and you have the same commitment in this meeting, that once we deal with amendment PV-21.1, we will discuss your motion that you want to put forward.
Monsieur Rayes.
You have to lower your boom, sir. There you are.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
How about you let the clerk know what the reference numbers are, and that way when we get to them, we can be that much more efficient.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you.
Ms. McPherson.
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Lib. (NL)
Yes, that was my understanding as well. The clerk could probably send it once more. I believe you're talking about both motions.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
That was my understanding as well.
If anybody does not have the motions from Ms. McPherson, they should let the clerk know so they can receive a copy.
That being said, I don't see anybody up right now.
As I mentioned, we are on PV-21.1, an amendment put forward by Mr. Manly. We will pick up the discussion where we left off. We are still in clause-by-clause. I don't see anyone who wishes to speak to it.
Now that debate has collapsed, that brings us to our vote.
(Amendment negatived: nays 11; yeas 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])
The Chair: This now brings us to the end of clause 7. It seems like only yesterday we had just begun on clause 7.
Mr. Méla.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Oh, I see. Maybe I spoke too soon.
It appears we have an amendment that was just sent in.
Mr. Méla, can you tell me the number, please?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Is everybody ready to proceed with debate or do people have questions? I see some nodding heads.
Mr. Housefather.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
We're just getting around to it now.
In the meantime—
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Yes. Actually, I did commit to you that we would do that. I thought we were ending with clause 7, but we were not ending with clause 7.
With all due respect to Mr. Rayes, I did commit to Ms. McPherson that I would get to her motion. It appears we're going to get to the motion.
Before I do that, though, I want to check with the clerk. Does anyone have any more questions about what was put forward by Mr. Rayes?
Mr. Rayes, go ahead.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Ms. McPherson's on a motion, but okay.
Not seeing any questions, we're going to go to Ms. McPherson.
You have the floor.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Yes.
I have Mr. Rayes. I believe your hand was left up from last time.
I have Ms. Dabrusin, and then I'm going to go to Mr. Champoux.
Ms. Dabrusin, you have the floor.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
I have Ms. McPherson in the lineup for talking in just a few moments, but I'm going to Mr. Champoux, first, and then Mr. Rayes.
Mr. Champoux.
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Lib. (NL)
Mr. Champoux, your subamendment, where do you propose to put that within the motion itself, at the very end?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Does everyone have an understanding of what was just talked about?
After Mr. Rayes, I'm going to come back to our clerk to read out again the amendment to the motion.
Mr. Rayes.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Yes, I'd prefer, sir, if you focused on the amendment that's been put forward. Then we can get back to the main motion, whether it's been amended or not.
Mr. Rayes, you have the floor.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
For the sake of people watching, there is no motion of time allocation here at committee. What my colleagues are talking about is a possible time allocation in the House. I wanted to make that clarification for those who are watching us from afar.
Madam Clerk, let's clear up some of the wording around the amendment that Mr. Champoux proposed.
Mr. Champoux, we may call on you in just a second.
Go ahead, Madam Clerk.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you.
We'll work on some of that for now and try to get the right wording. In the meantime, I see there are enough people who want to talk about it. I don't want to stymie the debate right now. I want to go to Ms. McPherson, and then I'll go to Ms. Dabrusin.
Mr. Rayes, I see your hand is up. Is that from last time? I don't want to miss you.
Okay. Perfect.
We have Ms. McPherson and then Ms. Dabrusin.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Ms. McPherson, I apologize for interrupting.
I just want to point out to everyone that we're still on the amendment that Mr. Champoux put forward before we get into the main motion. I respect the fact that—
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
I understand that, but when we get back to the main motion we can do that.
Now, keep in mind that I'm pretty flexible over the arc of conversation that we have here. If you want to start out with the amendment, leading into the overall motion, I'm all for that. However, I have to watch this accordingly, because I know that some people get upset if I don't.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
You still have the floor. I just wanted to point that out.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Folks, once again we seem to be debating the overall motion. Can we just focus first on the amendment? You can tie it into the main motion, but I really need you to talk about Mr. Champoux's amendment in the meantime.
Mr. Housefather.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
I see Monsieur Rayes. We're on the amendment by Mr. Champoux.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
I have Ms. Dabrusin, and then I have Mr. Champoux.
Ms. Dabrusin.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Okay.
Mr. Champoux, go ahead. I'm sorry about that.
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Lib. (NL)
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Lib. (NL)
Did everybody hear that?
We'll go straight to the vote on the motion put by Ms. Dabrusin to adjourn the debate.
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Lib. (NL)
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
It means we are going to adjourn the debate on Ms. McPherson's motion.
Is everybody clear on that?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
No, we adjourn the debate. It's as simple as that. We then go on to what we were dealing with earlier, which was clause-by-clause on Bill C-10.
Is everybody okay?
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Lib. (NL)
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Lib. (NL)
Maybe I'm not explaining it well.
Madam Clerk, would you like to explain the procedure on adjournment of debate?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Is everyone clear on that?
We're adjourning the debate.
Madam Clerk, we are voting on the motion to adjourn the debate.
(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)
The Chair: The debate has been adjourned. We cannot bring that debate back into play for the rest of this meeting, but we can at subsequent meetings, just so you know, and that will be the motion by Ms. McPherson.
We are now proceeding to clause-by-clause.
We're going to pick up again with a CPC amendment; however, that being said, we have to take a break at this time. I need to have a discussion with the table staff regarding the proposed amendments, so I'm looking at about five minutes.
We're going to suspend for about five minutes. Thank you.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Welcome back, everybody. I'm sorry that the break was a little longer than I anticipated.
I want to bring everybody up to speed on what is happening. We've just received several amendments from the Conservative Party, which would be under CPC amendments.
Since we're following along on our song sheets once again, I'll ask you to turn to hymn 9.2.
I'm going to read out the reference numbers that were handed in and I'm going to put a label on them as to what party and what amendments they are.
We'll start with the reference number, and I'll just read the last three numbers for the sake of time. The reference number of this one is 583. It will now be CPC 9.2. That is what we are going to address momentarily.
Following that, reference number 641, the last three numbers, is now going to be CPC 9.3. For those of you watching at home, this means that it is an amendment from the Conservative members of the committee. That's what the “CPC” is for.
The amendment with the last three numbers as reference number 725 is now CPC 9.4.
Moving right along, reference number 200 is now CPC 9.5.
Reference number 014 is now going to be CPC 9.6.
We've just received another amendment, the last three numbers of the reference number are 023. That is now CPC 9.7. However, that is going to be on clause 9, not on clause 7, so we'll be dealing with that at a later time.
Mr. Méla, if I'm not mistaken, you said that amendment is going to be following G-13.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Okay. It's G-13(N).
An hon. member: Bingo.
The Chair: I was waiting for someone to yell “Bingo”.
For those of you who are watching at home, no, this is not parliamentary bingo. There is no prize, so don't get out any cards, dabbers, or anything of the sort. We're going through line by line, clause by clause, and basically these are amendments from the floor. Essentially, we just got them and all members have them.
I'm just going through a labelling exercise right now because these amendments, at least all but one, deal with clause 7 and we are still in clause 7.
Do I have any points of clarification that need to be answered at this time?
Seeing none, we are going to proceed.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
I'm sorry.
Mr. Méla, our legislative clerk, go ahead.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Mr. Rayes, when you get a moment, do you want to clarify this?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you.
Mr. Méla, go ahead.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Mr. Rayes and Mr. Méla want to have an offline discussion.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Ladies and gentlemen, as you've just heard, I'm going to have to suspend.
We'll suspend for two minutes.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
We're back.
First of all, I want to say a huge thank you to our technical staff for all of these breaks, suspensions and so on. Our technical staff handled it masterfully, I might add. We don't say that enough, but we thank you so much.
Let's get back to the amendments at hand. These are amendments regarding clause 7 that just came to us from the Conservative Party.
Mr. Rayes, I want to point something out before we go any further. I feel it's only necessary I do this in the course of debate.
We have from 9.2 up to 9.6 regarding clause 7, and they follow in succession. However, I would like you to have a look at CPC-9.4. The last three reference numbers are 725. I want you to have a look at that for a moment. There is a problem here in the sense that, as you know, we propose these amendments in the order in which they come in the bill itself, which is C-10.
What you're aiming to do in this case, by adding after line 2 on page 8 of clause 7, should have been moved before PV-21.1, which we debated at the last meeting and voted on at this meeting. It should have been done just before that. So CPC-9.4, 725, is not in its right order. The others are. I'm bringing this to your attention now in case you were hoping to incorporate that into your overall debate. Normally, I'd get to it and make a ruling, but I thought maybe you should know now before you proceed any further.
With that in mind, we return to our clause-by-clause consideration.
Right now, we are on amendment CPC-9.2. Again, the last three numbers of the reference number are 583.
Mr. Rayes, I'm going to give you the floor. If you need any points of clarification on the ruling I just made about 9.4, by all means, ask. In the meantime, you can proceed with CPC-9.2. We're still on clause 7.
Go ahead, sir, you have floor.
Sorry, sir, you're on mute. It's still Monday.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
I think in this case, 9.4, since we've gone past it, you would need unanimous consent if you wanted to return to it.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Mr. Rayes, I'm going to ask you to stop for a moment. I don't want to lead you down the wrong path. If your hope is to bring back 9.4 and to seek consent to do that, you'd have to do that before we go any further.
If you want to resurrect 9.4, I'm going to ask Mr. Méla what the proper procedure is.
Mr. Méla, please.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you, Mr. Méla.
As you know, my French is not good enough to explain it the way he did. I want you to be of that understanding, so even though you have proceeded, I'm going to allow it, if you wish to do that. I don't want to lead you astray.
Go ahead, sir, if you wish.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you very much for your patience, everyone.
Again, the last three numbers are 725. It is CPC-9.4. Mr. Rayes is asking to go back and do that amendment. He's seeking unanimous consent to go back and do that. I'm repeating myself only because I want everyone to fully understand what he's asking for.
It is out of order. We should have dealt with it before, but in order to return to that, we need unanimous consent.
Does Mr. Rayes have unanimous consent?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Sorry, sir, you do not.
That's CPC-9.4, which you can now take out of your package.
We will now go to CPC-9.2, reference number 583.
Monsieur Rayes, once again, sir, you have the floor.
Thank you for your patience.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you, Mr. Rayes.
For clarification, to our clerk, Aimée, there is nobody in the room right now. Is that correct? Is everybody on Zoom?
Okay, I just wanted to make sure. That way, I can go with the list I see on Zoom.
That brings me to Ms. McPherson.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
I heard there was a question in there. I too have a question.
Ms. McPherson, who was your question directed to?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Before that, there are two things. There's that question, if you recall, and also you read the text, but you missed number 3, which is on the second page of this particular amendment. Were you including that as well or not including that?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
I'm sorry, Ms. McPherson. No, I was referring to Mr. Rayes on his amendment.
I'm looking at number 3. Can you answer both of those?
Thank you, Mr. Rayes. You have the floor.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Ms. McPherson, go ahead.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Mr. Aitchison, go ahead on a point of order.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Mr. Aitchison, as you know, I like for those to build an arc around what they want to talk about.
Folks, can we just zero in here on focusing on the amendment itself?
I'm assuming, Ms. Dabrusin, that you were coming around to that point.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
I'm going to look to our officials and seek out a volunteer.
Mr. Ripley, welcome. Go ahead.
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Lib. (NL)
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Lib. (NL)
I'll let Mr. Rayes answer.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Okay, Mr. Rayes. I was loath to interrupt, but you were answering the question for Mr. Housefather. I think you've done that sufficiently.
Mr. Housefather, were you done? Okay.
Mr. Waugh, you have the floor.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
There are two questions. The first one is for Mr. Rayes.
Would you like to take the floor, Mr. Rayes, to answer, or should I go to Mr. Ripley?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
I'll come back to you in just a moment.
Mr. Ripley.
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Lib. (NL)
We'll go back to Mr. Rayes. Do you want to respond once more, or shall I go back?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Okay.
Ms. McPherson, I'm going to give you the floor.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Before I go to Mr. Rayes, I will just point this out to everybody. I know we have been doing this a lot lately, where we ask our colleagues pointed questions. I think they are perfectly valid, but just a note to colleagues that they don't have to take the floor if they don't wish to.
I'm not saying you wouldn't, Mr. Rayes, so it's back to you if you desire to take the floor to answer the question.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Ms. Dabrusin.
Hold on. I thought I had Mr. Shields in there first.
Mr. Shields, if I got that wrong I apologize in advance, but according to my list here, Ms. Dabrusin, I have you next.
Go ahead.
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Lib. (NL)
I'm looking to Mr. Ripley.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
It seems that we've lost Mr. Ripley. I'm not the only one, right?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you for that, Mr. Louis. I was going to intervene myself.
Mr. Ripley, you were momentarily cut off. The flow of the conversation didn't quite sync up at some point. It's no reflection on your ability, sir; it's just your Internet.
Would you repeat the last point once more?
Then, Mr. Louis, you can give me a thumbs-up if you're satisfied.
Go ahead, Mr. Ripley.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Mr. Louis, I'm going to call on you right now for that.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Mr. Ripley, how about we do it all again for posterity? Go ahead.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you, Mr. Ripley.
Is everyone able to hear me and see me? I need some thumbs. I'm having issues of my own here. As long as you can hear me, just let me proceed.
Ms. Dabrusin, were you finished?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you.
Mr. Shields, go ahead. I apologize if I overlooked you earlier.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Ms. Dabrusin, would you like to weigh in?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Ms. Dabrusin.
No? Okay.
Go ahead, Mr. Shields.
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Lib. (NL)
Seeing no further conversation and no further debate, we will now go to a vote.
Once more this is CPC—
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Lib. (NL)
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Lib. (NL)
Mr. Ripley, would you care to answer?
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Lib. (NL)
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Lib. (NL)
Yes, I was going to address it.
I wanted Mr. Ripley to finish his sentence. That's the only thing.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
That's all right.
Mr. Ripley, do you have anything to sum up, very quickly?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you, Mr. Ripley.
Folks, the bells are ringing, as Ms. Ien pointed out. We have 10 minutes left in this meeting, which, between the bell time and the voting time, will be surpassed.
I have two options. I have a speakers list that has Mr. Louis next. We can proceed with that, but I will need unanimous consent in order to do so. Otherwise, we have to shut down. Given the fact that we have 10 minutes left in the meeting, and I can see by the clock that we have around 26 or 27 minutes to the vote, I will put forward the question on finishing off the meeting.
Would you like to continue?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Okay.
Thank you very much, everyone.
Hearing “no”, I will suspend this meeting until the next time.
Happy voting, everybody. We will see you on Friday at the regular time and regular place.
One moment, please. Aimée just texted me and said “adjourn” six times, so I guess I have to say we're adjourned.
The meeting is adjourned.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Welcome everyone to the continuing study of Bill C-10, clause by clause.
Welcome to everyone although I know we are missing one member at this point. We'll [Technical difficulty—Editor] shortly.
The way this normally works is that when the bells start ringing—I'm of the understanding they will be 30-minute bells—we break at that point. However, in the past when we've faced that, I have extended it to kind of finish what we were thinking about, as it were. To do that, I would need unanimous consent.
Before we came online, Mr. Rayes and I had the discussion about whether to continue or to end or suspend when the bells start ringing.
Mr. Rayes, do you want to start?
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Mr. Rayes, thank you very much.
Normally, as I said, I would need unanimous consent to continue the debate into the bells. It appears we don't have it. I'm sorry. I am not presupposing anything. It's from what I just gathered. I'm not saying they weren't valid points, Mr. Rayes. They were valid points.
Ms. McPherson, go ahead.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Normally I would say “yes”, but here is the situation. I have discussed this and I have read your motion. I'm assuming everybody has received it. This is the way this works. We are currently on amendment PV-21.1, the Green Party's amendment. According to the recent standing orders, amendments put forward by independent parties—I should say by parties not recognized in the House. Please don't take that the wrong way, Mr. Manly—are automatically deemed moved. When we get to anything that resembles PV—Parti Vert—amendments, we have to go with that because it's already deemed moved. If this were LIB or CPC, I could tell you to go ahead because those are not automatically moved.
I'll give you a bit of background. When independent parties—or parties that are not recognized in the House—wish to appear at the committee, they can submit and debate amendments but they cannot vote on them or move subamendments. Unfortunately, therefore, because of the rules that deem it moved, we have to deal with amendment PV-21.1. I can assure you, however, as chair, and now that you've given me notice, that once PV-21.1 is dispensed, we can go to your motion. I'll recognize you first.
Mr. Waugh.
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Lib. (NL)
What is your point of order?
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Lib. (NL)
Of course. Thank you.
I hope that was a sufficient sound check. I'm going to have to rule it wasn't a point of order, but a point of order was accepted because I think we may have managed to get the sound check from you through that.
Mr. Waugh, you have the floor.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Could I get everyone who doesn't want to speak to put down their hand?
I'm going to Mr. Shields now.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Shields, for the clarification.
Normally in the past, if the bells started ringing, I would look to have a conclusion of our thoughts. In order to do that, I need to have unanimous consent so that when the bells start ringing, I allow you to finish your sentence to a certain degree.
Seeing that I won't have unanimous consent, I will have to cut in when I feel it's necessary.
Ms. McPherson.
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Lib. (NL)
We call those “legacy” hands now, apparently.
Seeing no further conversation, we are now in committee meeting number....
Help me, Aimée.
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