//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Hon. Geoff Regan (Halifax West, Lib.)): (1030)[English] Welcome to meeting number 12 of the House of Commons Special Committee on Canada-China Relations. Pursuant to the order of reference of July 20, 2020, the committee is meeting on its study of Canada-China relations. Today's meeting is taking place via video conference.(1035)[Translation]Here are a few rules to follow to ensure that the meeting runs smoothly.Interpretation in this video conference will work very much like any regular committee meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either Floor, English or French. As you are speaking, if you plan to alternate from one language to the other, you will need to also switch the interpretation channel so it aligns with the language you are speaking. You may want to allow for a short pause when switching languages.Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mic.If members wish to raise a point of order, they must activate their mic and indicate that they wish to make a point of order. If members wish to speak on a point of order raised by another member, they must use the Raise Hand function to let the Chair know that they wish to speak. To do so, click on Participants at the bottom of the screen. When the list appears next to your name, you will see an option to raise your hand.Make sure you speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mic should be on mute. The use of headsets is strongly encouraged.Committee businessGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: Before we get started, can everyone click on their screen in the top right-hand corner to ensure they are on gallery view? With this view, you should be able to see all the participants in a grid view. It will ensure that all video participants can see one another. As is the case during in-person meetings, the public will only see the participant who is speaking.Now, colleagues, we're on to committee business. We have two notices of motion, as well as a motion. We have two from Mr. Genuis and then one from Mr. Harris.Mr. Genuis, which would you like to do first?Committee businessGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1035)[English]Okay. I'll read the motion for the benefit of members and then I'll go to you for debate. I'll keep a list of who else wishes to speak.The motion was moved by Garnett Genuis during the meeting of Thursday, August 6. Debate was adjourned on this motion and now it's coming back, of course. The motion says: That this committee call for dialogue between the Tibetan Central Administration and the government of the People's Republic of China with a view to enabling Tibet to exercise genuine autonomy within the framework of the Chinese constitution, and report this motion to the House.Mr. Genuis.ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsMotionsSovereigntyTibetGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1035)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Genuis.Not seeing any hands up—GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1035)[English]I'm sorry, Ms. Alleslev. We'll go over to you and then to Mr. Harris.LeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]The clerk may need you to repeat that.Committee businessLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]Thank you.Ms. Alleslev, did you indicate where the bracket closes? I presume it's after “his representatives”. Is that correct?Committee businessLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]The wording that I have for Mr. Genuis' motion was “the Tibetan Central Administration”. I presume that's okay. You changed the order but I presume the original order is all right. Committee businessLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]That's helpful. Thank you very much. Before I go to Mr. Harris, I have to ask for debate on the motion to amend the motion. On that I see Mr. Harris's hand up. Committee businessLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]Mr. Virani and then Mr. Oliphant, go ahead, please.JackHarrisSt. John's EastArifViraniParkdale—High Park//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]Yes.Committee businessArifViraniParkdale—High ParkArifViraniParkdale—High Park//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1045)[English]Thank you, Mr. Virani.Mr. Oliphant.ArifViraniParkdale—High ParkRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1045)[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor.RobertOliphantDon Valley WestStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.First of all, I must say I did not see you hit the Raise Hand button.A few days ago, House of Commons technicians tried to fix the issue. I thought they had succeeded, but apparently they did not. So I am going to ask the clerk to make sure that I can act as co-host, so that I can see the raised hands. It is quite important when we are videoconferencing on Zoom. I have to take care of all of that, while managing allotted speaking times.[English]Mr. Harris.Committee businessStéphaneBergeronMontarvilleJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]If I'm understanding your question, Ms. Alleslev's motion to amend would insert after the word “between”, “representatives of the Tibetan people (His Holiness the Dalai Lama or his representatives and/or”. Then after “Central Tibetan Administration”, she would insert a closed bracket. That would be the change she's proposed.Committee businessJackHarrisSt. John's EastJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]I hope we can go to a vote, because our time is getting low here. Madam Clerk, would you please proceed to a recorded vote?(Amendment agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)Committee businessDecisions in committeeRecorded divisionsJackHarrisSt. John's EastGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: Now, we're on to Mr. Genuis' second motion. I'll just read the English quickly since we are low on time. Mr. Genuis' moved that the committee prepare a report on the situation in Hong Kong—Committee businessGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestChristineHolke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]I'm sorry. Thank you so much. Please proceed to Mr. Virani.Committee businessChristineHolkeJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]No, we haven't. I see that Mr. Virani and Mr. Harris wish to debate on the main motion.Mr. Virani.Committee businessJackHarrisSt. John's EastArifViraniParkdale—High Park//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English] I have Mr. Harris, Mr. Bergeron and Ms. Alleslev.ArifViraniParkdale—High ParkJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English]I have Ms. Alleslev and then Mr. Oliphant.StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English]Okay. Thank you.Mr. Oliphant.LeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English]I think you have it.RobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English]I still see hands up for Mr. Harris and Mr. Bergeron, but that may be from their previous...? Yes. Remember to take those hands down once you're done, if you don't mind. I thought they expired automatically, but apparently not. I'll ask the clerk, then, to proceed to the recorded vote on the motion as amended.(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 11, nays 0)ChinaCommittee businessDecisions in committeeInternational relationsMotionsRecorded divisionsSovereigntyTibetRobertOliphantDon Valley WestGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: We're now at the end of our half-hour.Madam Clerk, can you assist me a bit here? Committee businessGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestChristineHolke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1100)[English]Right. Mr. Genuis, would you like to proceed with your motion?Committee businessChristineHolkeGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1100)[English]Thank you.I have Mr. Oliphant, Ms. Alleslev and Mr. Harris.Mr. Oliphant.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1100)[English]I'm in the hands of the committee in that regard. Obviously, I'm anxious to get to the witnesses, but the committee members have the right to bring forward a motion and have it debated. That's where we are at the moment. I recognize the desire of some members to do that expeditiously.By the way, I will let members know that I can see the hands now when they are raised.Ms. Alleslev.Committee businessRobertOliphantDon Valley WestLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[English]Mr. Harris.LeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[English]Thank you.[Translation]Before I give the floor to Mr. Bergeron, I want to let him know that, fortunately, I can now see raised hands.Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor.JackHarrisSt. John's EastStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.[English] Mr. Genuis, your hand is still up. Do you wish to speak again?StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[English]That can be a very wise approach at times.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[English]Mr. Oliphant and Mr. Harris, I see that your hands are up.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[English]Thank you.Mr. Harris.RobertOliphantDon Valley WestJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]All right.I don't see any additional hands. I see Mr. Oliphant's hand up, and Mr. Harris's, but I trust that those will be taken down.Therefore, I'll call upon the clerk to proceed to the recorded vote, please.JackHarrisSt. John's EastChristineHolke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]I think we'd better try to be on time.Madam Clerk, please proceed.(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])The Chair: Mr. Harris, you have a motion, I believe.ChinaCommittee businessDecisions in committeeHong KongInternational relationsMotionsRecorded divisionsChristineHolkeJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Yes, please do. Then I have Mr. Albas.JackHarrisSt. John's EastJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Thank you.We'll have Mr. Albas and then Mr. Bergeron.JackHarrisSt. John's EastDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor.DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[Translation]Thank you very much.[English] Mr. Albas, I don't think you're aware your hand is still up. You may want to take that down, please.Go ahead, Mr. Virani.StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleArifViraniParkdale—High Park//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English]It sounds like you're asking Mr. Harris if he's agreeable to that.Mr. Harris, do you wish to respond?Committee businessArifViraniParkdale—High ParkJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English]Thank you.I see Mr. Oliphant.JackHarrisSt. John's EastRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English]Thank you very much.Madam Clerk, please proceed to the recorded vote.(Motion agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)Committee businessDecisions in committeeRecorded divisionsRobertOliphantDon Valley WestGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: Thank you very much, colleagues.We need to take a very short pause to make sure we add all of the witnesses.We'll take as few minutes as possible. If we're lucky, it will be less than five. See you shortly.(1115)(1125)GeoffReganHon.Halifax WestGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1125)[English] I call the committee back to order. Welcome back. I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the new witnesses.Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. All comments should be addressed through the chair. Interpretation in this video conference will work very much as it does in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either “Floor, English or French”. As you are speaking, if you plan to alternate from one language to the other, you will need to also switch the interpretation channel so it aligns with the language you're speaking. You may want to allow for a short pause when switching languages. I remind you, witnesses, that if you require French interpretation, you should be selecting the English channel on the bottom of the screen, and vice versa if you need English interpretation.When you're not speaking, you mike should be on mute, please. The use of headsets is strongly encouraged, as you've seen. I just would say that once we're into questioning by members, they will indicate, I hope, who they'd like to answer the question. When they call on you to answer a question, you don't have to wait for me to call on you. You can proceed, and at the end of the time they have, I will interrupt if I have to and go on to the next member.I'd like to now welcome our first panel of witnesses. From Georgetown University, we have Evan S. Medeiros, Penner Family Chair in Asian Studies. From the New York University School of Law, we have Alvin Y.H. Cheung, non-resident affiliated scholar, U.S.-Asia Law Institute. From the University of Toronto, we have Lynette H. Ong, professor of political science and global affairs. Each witness will have up to 10 minutes to make an opening statement, followed by a round of questions from the members. We'll begin with Mr. Medeiros from Georgetown University.Mr. Medeiros, go ahead, please, for 10 minutes.ChinaHong KongInternational relationsGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestEvan S.Medeiros//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]Thank you very much.Now, we'll go to Mr. Cheung from the New York University School of Law.Mr. Cheung, you have up to 10 minutes.Evan S.MedeirosAlvin Y.H.Cheung//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Cheung.We'll now go to Professor Ong from the University of Toronto.You have 10 minutes.Alvin Y.H.CheungLynette H.Ong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Thank you very muchI want to thank each of the witnesses for keeping it under 10 minutes, which will allow us more time for questions. Before we start questions, I just want to alert members that we probably won't have time for the full two rounds in either this or the second panel, because I'm going to try to balance the two and get us at least close to our time. We'll begin with Mr. Genuis in the first round for six minutes.Mr. Genuis, please go ahead.Lynette H.OngGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[English]Thank you.Evan S.MedeirosGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: Mr. Fragiskatos, you have six minutes.GeoffReganHon.Halifax WestPeterFragiskatosLondon North Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Fragiskatos.[Translation]We now go to Mr. Bergeron for six minutes.PeterFragiskatosLondon North CentreStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Ong.[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.[English]Now we have Mr. Harris for six minutes. Lynette H.OngJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]We will begin the five-minute round with Ms. Alleslev, please.JackHarrisSt. John's EastLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English]We will move to Ms. Zann for five minutes, please.LeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1220)[English]Thank you very much.While we're speaking with Mr. Cheung, I would like to ask him a couple of questions about his views on some of these issues. Back in April of this year, Mr. Cheung, you wrote on the website Just Security that, “On first observation, the decay of Hong Kong's autonomy has been abrupt.” In your view, however, recent events you said were long in the making. You identified three factors that have contributed to the erosion of Hong Kong's autonomy:...the Beijing and Hong Kong governments’ abuse of “advocating independence” as a political and legal cudgel; the growing role of the Liaison Office; and the political capture of a previously professionalized civil service apparatus. What events, developments and decisions would you say have led to the erosion of Hong Kong's autonomy since 1997? What were the warning signs that perhaps the world has missed? How did the international community including Canada respond, and how do we deal with this issue now? It's a bit of a long question.ChinaHong KongInternational relationsGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestAlvin Y.H.Cheung//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1225)[English] Thank you.When did you see China, rather than just being a Communist regime, becoming somewhat of a capitalist regime as well? It seems to be a mix now. It is using both to compete in the world, but now also to control the people. When did you see all of that starting to change?CapitalismChinaHong KongInternational relationsAlvin Y.H.CheungAlvin Y.H.Cheung//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English]Thank you.We'll now go to Mr. Williamson for five minutes.Alvin Y.H.CheungJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1230)[English]Thank you very much.We will go to Ms. Yip for five minutes, please.Evan S.MedeirosJeanYipScarborough—Agincourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[Translation]Thank you very much, Ms. Yip.Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.Evan S.MedeirosStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English]Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.Mr. Harris, you have two minutes and 30 seconds.Lynette H.OngJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.This concludes our first panel. On behalf of the committee, I want to thank you very much. We very deeply appreciate your time today, and I'm sure we're all sorry for having kept you waiting as we dealt with some important business of the committee.The committee will now suspend while we arrange for the next panel. Please be ready in four or five minutes.Thank you very much.(1240)(1245)Evan S.MedeirosGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]I call the meeting back to order. Welcome back, colleagues and witnesses.I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the new witnesses. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. I should say, however, that once we get into the questions from members, the members will indicate who is to answer their question and you won't have to wait for me to call upon you as they go to you. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.Interpretation in this video conference will work very much as it does in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French. As you are speaking, if you plan to alternate from one language to the other, you will need to also switch the interpretation channel so that it aligns with the language you are speaking. You may want to allow for a short pause when switching languages.As a reminder to witnesses, if you require French interpretation, you should be selecting your English channel on the bottom of your screen, and vice versa if you need English interpretation.When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.The use of headsets is strongly encouraged.I would now like to welcome our second panel of witnesses. We have, as an individual, Stéphane Chatigny, lawyer; on behalf of Human Rights in China, Sharon Hom, executive director; and, from the University of Surrey, Malte Philipp Kaeding, assistant professor in international politics.(1250)[Translation]We will begin with Mr. Chatigny's opening remarks.You have the floor for 10 minutes.GeoffReganHon.Halifax WestStéphaneChatigny//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1300)[Translation]Thank you very much.[English] Now we will go to Ms. Hom for 10 minutes, please.StéphaneChatignySharonHom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English] Thank you very much, Professor Hom.Now we'll hear from Professor Kaeding, please, for 10 minutes.SharonHomMalte PhilippKaeding//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Thank you very much, Professor.We will now go to the first round of questions.Leading off for six minutes is Mr. Williamson, please.Malte PhilippKaedingJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1320)[Translation]You have 20 seconds left to respond.JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestStéphaneChatigny//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1325)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Williamson.Mr. Oliphant, you have the floor for six minutes.JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1330)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Oliphant.[Translation]Mr. Bergeron now has the floor for six minutes.RobertOliphantDon Valley WestStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1335)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.Mr. Harris, you have six minutes, please.Malte PhilippKaedingJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1340)[English]Thank you, Mr. Harris.Now we'll go on to the second round.Mr. Albas, please go ahead for five minutes.JackHarrisSt. John's EastDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1345)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Albas.I will now give the floor to Mr. Dubourg for five minutes.Malte PhilippKaedingEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1350)[English]Thank you very much.Thank you, Mr. Dubourg.Now we have Mr. Genuis for five minutes, please.SharonHomGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1355)[English]Thank you very much.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1355)[English]Thank you, Mr. Genuis.Now we'll go on to Ms. Zann for five minutes, please.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1355)[English]Thank you very much.I'm sorry to keep asking questions of the same witness, but I am very curious.You had mentioned, Madam, that there were also a number of people in mainland China who were concerned about what is going on in Hong Kong. I mentioned at another committee the other day that I had also seen on television interviews with people living in the Republic of China who did not seem to think that this new law was particularly a problem, who felt it was more to protect China as a whole and to protect them.Could you please elaborate on just how much people in mainland China actually know about what is going on and what the majority of thought is when it comes to the changes that the government is trying to implement in Hong Kong?ChinaHong KongInternational relationsGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestSharonHom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1400)[English]Of course.SharonHomSharonHom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1400)[English]Thank you very much. I'm a bit confused, because earlier you mentioned that we should be very careful and not completely cut off Hong Kong and act as if they are dead, to realize that the environment is thriving in trying to be as democratic as possible against great odds. You also mentioned that we should not be creating certain sanctions that will hurt all of the Chinese people. When you're talking about targeted sanctions, are you only talking about targeted sanctions and not suggesting that we do broad, sweeping sanctions in, say, agriculture or seafood exports to China and things like that? ChinaEconomic sanctionsHong KongInternational relationsSharonHomSharonHom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]Thank you—SharonHomSharonHom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1400)[English]Thank you very much. Thank you for that clarification.SharonHomGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]Thank you, Ms. Zann.[Translation]Mr. Bergeron now has the floor for two and a half minutes.LenoreZannCumberland—ColchesterStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1405)[Translation]You have 15 seconds left.SharonHomStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1405)[English]You have only a couple of seconds.StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleSharonHom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1405)[English]Thank you very much.Mr. Harris, you have two and a half minutes.SharonHomJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1405)[English]We do hear you.JackHarrisSt. John's EastJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1405)[English]Keep your response to 15 seconds, please. JackHarrisSt. John's EastSharonHom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1410)[English]Thank you, Professor. We're over Mr. Harris's time. We've come to the end of our second panel and the end of the meeting.First of all, to the witnesses, thank you so much on behalf of all the members. We are very grateful for your presence, your time and your testimony. I can see members applauding from their distant locations.I want to remind members that our next meeting is Tuesday, August 25, at 11 a.m. eastern time. For those of us in Nova Scotia, that's noon, of course. For Jack it's a little later; half an hour later.SharonHomGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: Thank you so much. The meeting is adjourned.GeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1650)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our witness for being here and, more importantly, thank you for the work that you do. I had the opportunity early in my career to take part, not in Katimavik but through a program administered by the Canadian Bar Association, in work for a human rights organization in South Africa. I have to say that kind of service opportunity was life-changing, to say the least. I know you've had a remarkable impact on the lives of other young people.I see a parallel between the unfortunate circumstances surrounding the Canada student service grant and certain cuts that were made to Katimavik's programming back in 2012. I want to give full credit to my colleague Mr. McLeod, who is on this committee, who repeatedly brings up the well-being and the interests of the students who were hoping to take part in this program.Building on questions he's asked from previous meetings, I'm wondering if you can describe a little bit what the impact was for the students who had been planning on taking part in the program in 2012, and whether you think that the consequences for the students who were hoping to take part in your programming this summer to be similar. What would be the impact on them? Maybe part B to the question is how we can get things back on track for them.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsStudentsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeJohn-FrederickCameron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1655)[English]Katimavik in 2012 went through a serious budget cut at the time. I know that the impact on students who were planning to take part would have been severe. I'm curious to know whether you can describe what position it would have put the students in and whether students who were hoping to take part this year are facing similar circumstances.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsStudentsWE CharityJohn-FrederickCameronJohn-FrederickCameron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1655)[English]One of the things I'm interested in, and it's also a point raised with frequency by Mr. Julian, is the compensation model. It was really a tuition credit to inspire more students to take up volunteerism. I mentioned the opportunity I had near the beginning of my career. One of the reasons I ended up going with that program was that there was some compensation. Although it wasn't enough to really pay off all the student debt I'd built up, it was better than opportunities with other international organizations that were sometimes altogether year-long unpaid internships.I'm curious to know whether you think the compensation built into the Canada student service grant would have allowed you to recruit more students and would have helped them with the cost of going to school.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsIncome and wagesStudentsVolunteering and volunteersWE CharityJohn-FrederickCameronJohn-FrederickCameron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1655)[English]Excellent. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'll just build upon that question. One of the things I found very frustrating when I was finishing up my master's program and looking at these opportunities was that I found that a number of the people who could afford to go for a year, and sometimes two years, in these high-profile unpaid internships with international organizations came from families of significant financial means. I'm curious to know whether you think the combination of the Canada emergency student benefit, which many of the students would have qualified for, or the Canada emergency response benefit, for that matter, with the additional tuition supplement would have been able to help recruit low-income students who otherwise may not have been able to afford to take part in a program that would have been purely volunteer-based and not compensating them at all.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsIncome and wagesStudentsVolunteering and volunteersWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeJohn-FrederickCameron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1700)[English]Thank you so much. I sincerely appreciate your advice and feedback.John-FrederickCameronWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1350)[English]I agree with Ken Hardie on September 22 as a starting point. I think it gives us time to digest this, to make sure we're prepared and to get good witnesses to follow through on this. We're all looking at a very unsure time as well, when we're sending our kids back to school and there's talk of a second wave. Let's see how that settles before we start getting into taking things on too early.Committee businessMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Hon. Geoff Regan (Halifax West, Lib.)): (1105)[English] I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 11 of the House of Commons Special Committee on Canada-China Relations. Pursuant to the order of reference of July 20, 2020, the committee is meeting on its study on Canada—China Relations. Today's meeting is taking place by video conference. [Translation]Here are a few rules to make sure that the meeting proceeds well.Interpretation in this video conference will work much like in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either Floor, English or French. As you are speaking, if you plan to alternate from one language to the other, you will need to also switch the interpretation channel so that it aligns with the language you are speaking. You may want to allow for a short pause when switching languages.Before speaking, wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. A reminder to members and witnesses that all their comments should be addressed through the Chair.If members wish to speak outside the time they are given for questions, they should activate their microphone and indicate that they wish to raise a point of order. If members want to comment on points of order raised by other members, they must use the “raise hand” function to indicate to the Chair that they want to speak. To do so, you must click on “participants” at the bottom of the screen. When the list appears beside your name, you will see an option allowing you to raise your hand.Please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, set your microphone to mute. Headsets are strongly recommended.[English]Before we get started, can everyone click on the top right-hand corner of their screen and ensure that they are on gallery view? With this view you should be able to see all the participants in a grid view, ensuring that all video participants can see one another. As is the case during in-person meetings, the public will only see the participant who is speaking.It is now my pleasure to welcome our first panel of witnesses. From Columbia University we have Michael C. Davis, professor, Weatherhead East Asia Institute, Woodrow Wilson International Center.ChinaInternational relationsStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[Translation]Is there a problem, Mr. Bergeron?StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[Translation]Not at all, Mr. Bergeron. That is helpful and important advice for us.I imagine that all the witnesses clearly heard the interpretation and understand what they have to do when their turn comes.[English]From Hong Kong Watch we have Benedict Rogers, co-founder and chair. From the Toronto Association for Democracy in China, we have Cheuk Kwan, the immediate past chair, and Avvy Yao-Yao Go, board member, barrister and solicitor, clinic director, Chinese and Southeast Asian Legal Clinic. Each witness or organization will have seven to 10 minutes to make an opening statement, followed by a round of questions from the members. I just want to make it clear to the witnesses that once a member has started to ask you questions, I'm asking the members to indicate who they would like to respond, or in which order they would like you to respond, because I think that will save us time. Once one of the members in their period for questions has asked you to comment, you don't need to wait for me to call on you.We'll start if we may with Professor Davis for up to 10 minutes. Please proceed.ChinaInternational relationsStéphaneBergeronMontarvilleMichael C.Davis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1120)[English]Thank you very much, Professor Davis.Now we'll call upon Mr. Rogers from Hong Kong Watch for 10 minutes.Michael C.DavisBenedictRogers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1130)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Rogers.We'll now hear from the Toronto Association for Democracy in China.Will it be Ms. Go or Mr. Kwan first?BenedictRogersCheukKwan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1130)[English]Please go ahead.CheukKwanCheukKwan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1140)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Kwan and Ms. Go.We'll now proceed to questions. The first round is a six-minute round. I will ask Mr. Genuis to proceed.AvvyYao-Yao GoGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Go. Thank you, Mr. Genuis.We will now go on to Ms. Zann for six minutes. AvvyYao-Yao GoLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1145)[English]Thank you very much. Thank you all so much for being here. This is a very serious issue, and it's very concerning, about democracy, really, around the world. I watched a television interview recently with the Apple Daily founder Jimmy Lai. He had tears in his eyes as he was talking about his love for his country and also his fears about possibly being arrested, but he said he had to say what he had to say because he was dedicated to the truth and making sure that the truth gets out. My heart is with him and with his family. He said he has some family members here in Canada. I'm truly concerned for him and for all other journalists who are being arrested and who are in a state of chill right now in Hong Kong. Several other pro-democracy supporters were also arrested when he was, and the Apple Daily's offices were apparently searched by as many as 200 police officers. My question is this: Is there any particular timing on this? Were they looking for anything in particular, do you think? How should the international community, including Canada, respond to the arrest of media representatives and student leaders in Hong Kong?Who would like to respond to that? Would you, Mr. Davis?ArrestsChinaFreedom of speechHong KongInternational relationsGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestMichael C.Davis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1150)[English] This is for any of you. When you see the news, you see people on the streets of China interviewed, and they say, “No, this is fine. It's to protect China and to protect our society so that we're all one.” Can any of you speak to that and how the people in mainland China are receiving a certain type of news or getting mixed news? Or are they only getting state news that is telling them one thing?ChinaFreedom of speechInternational relationsPropagandaMichael C.DavisCheukKwan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1150)[English]You have one minute.CheukKwanCheukKwan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Thank you very much.Thank you, Ms. Zann.[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for six minutes.CheukKwanStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[Translation]You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Bergeron.AvvyYao-Yao GoStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[Translation]I appreciate that very much.Mr. Harris, you have six minutes.StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]You have about five seconds, I'm afraid.JackHarrisSt. John's EastJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Thank you very much.We'll go on to the second round, which will be for five minutes each.Mr. Williamson, go ahead, please.JackHarrisSt. John's EastJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]Thank you, Mr. Rogers.Thank you, Mr. Williamson, for keeping a close eye on your time.We'll now go on to Ms. Yip for five minutes.BenedictRogersJeanYipScarborough—Agincourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English] Thank you, Ms. Go and Ms. Yip.Ms. Alleslev, you have five minutes, please. AvvyYao-Yao GoLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Kwan and Ms. Alleslev.[Translation]Mr. Dubourg, you have the floor for five minutes.LeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Dubourg.Mr. Bergeron, you have two minutes and 30 seconds.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[Translation]Unfortunately, not enough time is left for Mr. Rogers to answer. Perhaps another member will allow him to do so.Michael C.DavisStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English]We go to Mr. Harris for two and a half minutes.StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1230)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Go. Thank you, Mr. Harris.This concludes the time we have available for the first panel today. I know that all members deeply appreciate our witnesses' willingness to come before us today and your testimony. Thank you so much for being here.We'll now suspend for five minutes or so until we set up for the next panel.Thank you again.(1230)(1235)JackHarrisSt. John's EastGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English] I call the meeting back to order. Welcome back. I have a few organizational things to talk about before we go ahead. I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of the new witnesses.Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. Having said that, once we get to the questions from members, I'll ask the members to indicate whom they wish to answer their questions. During the question period by each member, you needn't wait for me to call on you then.Interpretation in this video conference will work very much like in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either the floor, English or French. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. As you are speaking, if you plan to alternate from one language to the other, you will also need to switch the interpretation channel so that it aligns with the language you are speaking. You may want to allow for a short pause when switching languages.When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. Furthermore, the use of headsets is strongly encouraged. I would now like to welcome our second panel of witnesses. We have, from Freedom House, Annie Boyajian, director of advocacy; from the Hong Kong Democracy Council, Samuel M. Chu, founding and managing director; and from the New York University School of Law, Jerome A. Cohen, professor and faculty director emeritus, U.S.-Asia Law Institute.Each witness organization will have up to 10 minutes to make an opening statement, followed by a round of questions from members. Now we will start with Freedom House, Ms. Boyajian.GeoffReganHon.Halifax WestAnnieBoyajian//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Boyajian.Now we'll hear from Mr. Chu for up to 10 minutes, please.AnnieBoyajianSamuel M.Chu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1255)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chu.Now, Professor Cohen, please, you have up to 10 minutes.Samuel M.ChuJerome A.Cohen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1305)[English]Thank you very much, Professor. We'll now go to the first round of questions, starting with Mr. Williamson for six minutes.Jerome A.CohenJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English] Professor Cohen, it appears that your screen is frozen.Would you like to go to someone else, Mr. Williamson? I'm sorry about that.JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English][Inaudible—Editor]JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Answer very briefly.JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestAnnieBoyajian//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Boyajian and Mr. Williamson.AnnieBoyajianJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]I think you will see that I did adjust your time a bit. You're timing it yourself, I believe. I did try to add some time. I hope it's—JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]I don't think so, but at any rate, I do have to make sure that all members have their chance to ask their questions and get the time they have.JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]I'm trying to manage all of that. I don't think we have Professor Cohen back yet, but hopefully we will shortly for the benefit of witnesses.Now we go on to Mr. Oliphant for six minutes, please.JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1320)[English]Please respond in 20 seconds.RobertOliphantDon Valley WestJerome A.Cohen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1320)[English]Professor, thank you very much. I'm sorry to cut you off, but we are over Mr. Oliphant's time.[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for six minutes.Jerome A.CohenStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1325)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Cohen.[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.Mr. Harris, you have the floor for six minutes.Jerome A.CohenJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1335)[English]Thank you very much, Professor. Thank you, Mr. Harris. We will now go to the second round. We have Mr. Albas for five minutes, please.Jerome A.CohenDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1340)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chu.Thank you, Mr. Albas. Now we'll go on to Ms. Yip, for five minutes, please.DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaJeanYipScarborough—Agincourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1345)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Yip and Mr. Chu.We will now go on to Mr. Genuis for five minutes, please.JeanYipScarborough—AgincourtGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1350)[English]Thank you, Professor.Thank you, Mr. Genuis.Mr. Fragiskatos, you have five minutes, please.Jerome A.CohenPeterFragiskatosLondon North Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1355)[English]You have 25 seconds, please.PeterFragiskatosLondon North CentreSamuel M.Chu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1355)[English]Thank you.[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.Samuel M.ChuStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1355)[English]Thank you, Professor.Jerome A.CohenJerome A.Cohen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]Thank you, Professor.[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.Mr. Harris, you have the floor for two minutes and 30 seconds.Jerome A.CohenJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]Thank you very much, Professor. Thank you, Mr. Harris.That concludes the time we have. I want to thank our witnesses. I know that all members are deeply grateful to all of you for appearing.I want to let members know that we are working on a possible 10:30 a.m. eastern start on Monday in order to give time to deal with the motions that Mr. Genuis mentioned earlier. If that's agreed to by the whips, it will appear on the notice of meeting for Monday's meeting. We can't do it at three o'clock because another committee is starting at three o'clock on Monday. That's the situation.Mr. Genuis, is it on that point?Jerome A.CohenGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]That actually would be my expectation, although we will have to pause, of course, for the sound checks and so forth, as members will understand.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]Again, I'd like to thank especially our witnesses. I'd also like to thank all the technicians and the analysts, our wonderful clerk, and everyone else who supported this meeting.The meeting is adjourned.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1510)[English]I think Pierre just wants a chance to get in the chair again.WayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know that I'm completely forgettable here, so I'll forgive you this time around.Thank you, Minister, for being with us today. One of the issues I want to explore a little is the role of unsolicited proposals that come in. I've made the point during previous meetings. It's the kind of thing that as a local MP you may get and that you may get as a cabinet minister. In your case, in the present circumstances, perhaps it's both. For what's it's worth, actually, you mentioned the investment made in Futurpreneur. I know that prior to that announcement, they reached out to my office in my role as the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance. When your office receives an unsolicited proposal, I'm curious about what the normal process would be to make an assessment of whether it's something worth pursuing or something you're going to reject. What kind of process does an unsolicited proposal go through in your office?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMaryNgHon.Markham—Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1635)[English]Thank you.I just hope that the folks who've been watching these proceedings over the past few months don't become concerned that they shouldn't be reaching out to their local MPs or to the government. I know that some of the most valuable feedback I've received came from other members of Parliament from all parties right across Canada. When I saw that thousands of businesses were reaching out to hundreds of members of Parliament, ultimately coming across my desk, it spoke to me that there were items that we needed to act upon.I want to dig a little bit into the proposal you received initially for WE Charity's student entrepreneurship program, which was rejected. When did you communicate to WE Charity that the program had been rejected?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMaryNgHon.Markham—ThornhillMaryNgHon.Markham—Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1635)[English]You can take your time. It's okay.MaryNgHon.Markham—ThornhillMaryNgHon.Markham—Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1635)[English]I see some movement from the chair, so I might be quickly running out of time. In any event, you communicated the—MaryNgHon.Markham—ThornhillMaryNgHon.Markham—Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1635)[English]You have no reason to believe the genesis of the Canada student service grant was tied in any way to the unsolicited proposal that came in on the Canada entrepreneurship program. Is that correct?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMaryNgHon.Markham—ThornhillMaryNgHon.Markham—Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1635)[English]Mr. Chair, do I have any time remaining?MaryNgHon.Markham—ThornhillWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1635)[English]Okay. I'll ask one final question.Minister Qualtrough, who was before the committee just moments ago, indicated in no uncertain terms that she remained confident that a third party administrator for the program would be essential if it was going to do everything the program was asking of the service provider rather than, for example, going through the civil service. The Prime Minister gave testimony to the effect that there was a binary choice presented during that May 22 cabinet meeting, which you were present for, according to your testimony today, saying that this was a binary choice: We were either going to go forward with WE Charity administering the program or there would not be a service grant program this summer.Do you have any reason to believe, based on the information you had at the time, that there was another option, that in fact the civil service could have delivered the program in the manner contemplated by the government?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsPublic Service and public servantsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMaryNgHon.Markham—Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1755)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to start with the issue of the various entities that were involved in the contribution agreement. Specifically, I'll touch on the issue that Monsieur Fortin put forward. He made the suggestion, I believe, that there was gross negligence at play. For what it's worth, I've published on the issue of gross negligence in the atmosphere of the Alberta energy sector, and this ain't it.The issue I want to flag with you and get your thoughts on is really the role of the WE Charity Foundation. From testimony we heard on the public record before this committee, the reason that the structure of the agreement was as it was, involving the foundation, was specifically due to the fact that the civil service asked WE Charity to bear the liability for the administration of the Canada student service grant. WE Charity responded by saying that they were not willing to take that risk entirely on themselves unless they could set up a foundation through which the contract would be delivered, specifically to avoid liability. You can imagine that if a student gets injured or something during one of these placements, who will they be trying to recoup their losses from?After they made that proposal in response to the civil service, the civil service accepted it and then made the recommendation to the cabinet that the contract ought to proceed in that manner, with full knowledge of the structure that had been agreed to by the parties. Given the nature of the conversations and deliberations that would have taken place, and the advice of the civil service with full information, would you have had a problem with that kind of structure or arrangement to deliver a program such as the Canada student service grant?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMarcTassé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1800)[English] Monsieur Tassé, if I may, I think there are two distinct issues at play. I apologize for interrupting, but I think you were actually giving the answer to my second question, which I haven't asked yet. The first question touches on the relationship between the various legal entities as a strategy to manage risk. Different members of the opposition have tried to make hay out of the fact that there was some confusing arrangement among various structures, such as the ME to WE social enterprise, the WE Charity, and the WE Charity Foundation. The question I posed to you was simply whether there would be a problem, from your perspective, in using the WE Charity Foundation as an entity that was specifically created to limit the liability of the WE Charity for administering the program. This is not a question about due diligence that should have taken place—which is the subject of my next question, if I get there—but simply whether the structure of using the WE Charity Foundation was inappropriate, from your perspective, given that the civil service's recommendation was informed with that full information.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMarcTasséMarcTassé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1800)[English]Sure. For what it's worth, members of this committee had the benefit of hearing live testimony, for which you of course were not present. We may be operating with an information asymmetry in today's hearing as well, which I appreciate.The second question, which I know you have an opinion on because you started to answer it, touches on the due diligence that maybe should have taken place in advance of a contract award. One of the features that we heard was built into the contribution agreement—again, from the testimony by different ministers and the Clerk of the Privy Council as well—was that certain funds were to be released and flowed through to the entity delivering the program only when certain key performance indicators were met. This builds on my colleague Ms. Dzerowicz's line of questioning.Despite the fact that you may have reservations about what level of due diligence could have or should have taken place, which you'll need to see documents for, I'm curious to know if you think that a feature of a contribution agreement that allows money to be released only once key performance indicators are met offers an additional layer of protection that could prevent abuses by a company that had a different arrangement, such as a true sole-source contract, say, through which it had an upfront cheque. Whether they performed or not, they could abscond with the money. Do you think the requirement for certain key performance indicators to be met actually provides a level of protection for taxpayers' dollars in this instance?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMarcTasséMarcTassé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Hon. Geoff Regan (Halifax West, Lib.)): (1100)[English] I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 10 of the House of Commons Special Committee on Canada—China Relations. Pursuant to the order of reference of July 20, 2020, the committee is meeting on its study on Canada-China relations. Today’s meeting is taking place by video conference. [Translation]To ensure an orderly meeting, here are a few rules to follow.Interpretation in this video conference will work very much as it does in a regular committee meeting. At the bottom of your screen, you have the choice of either floor, English or French.As you are speaking, if you plan to alternate from one language to the other, you will need to also switch the interpretation channel so that it aligns with the language you are speaking. You may want to allow for a short pause when switching languages. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone. A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. If a member wishes to speak outside the time provided for their questions, they must turn on their microphone and state that they wish to raise a point of order.If a member wishes to address a point of order raised by another member, they must use the “raise hand” function to inform the chair that they want to speak. To do so, you must click on “participants” at the bottom of the screen. When the list appears beside your name, you will see an option to raise your hand.Make sure that you speak slowly and clearly.When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute.The use of headsets is strongly encouraged.[English]Before we get started, can everyone click on their screen, in the top right-hand corner, and ensure they are on gallery view? With this view, you should be able to see all the participants in a grid view, and it will ensure that all video participants can see one another. As is the case during in-person meetings, the public will only see the participant who is speaking.I would like to welcome our first panel of witnesses. From Alliance Canada Hong Kong, we have Cherie Wong, executive director; and Davin Wong, director of youth engagement and policy initiatives. From Canada-Hong Kong Link, we have Gloria Fung, president and coordinator of a Canada-wide platform for 16 organizations concerned about Hong Kong. From Hong Kong Watch, we have Aileen Calverley, co-founder and trustee. Each witness or organization will have seven to 10 minutes to make an opening statement, followed by a round of questions from the members. Mr. Wong, please go ahead.ChinaInternational relationsDavinWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Thank you very much.Was Ms. Wong going to add anything or not? DavinWongCherieWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Okay, you still have a few minutes. Go ahead, please.CherieWongCherieWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Wong and Ms. Wong.Now we have, from the Canada-Hong Kong Link, Gloria Y. Fung, president and coordinator of a cross-Canada platform for 16 organizations concerned about Hong Kong.Ms. Fung, you have up to 10 minutes. Please go ahead.CherieWongGloriaFung//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1125)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Fung.Now, from Hong Kong Watch, we have Aileen Calverley, co-founder and trustee.Ms. Calverley, you have 10 minutes. Please go ahead.GloriaFungAileenCalverley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Calverley. I thank all the witnesses for staying within their time. Now we'll go to the first round of questions. To start off will be Mr. Genuis for six minutes, please.AileenCalverleyGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]If you don't mind, Mr. Genuis, could you expedite that by indicating whom you would like to hear from first? I'm sorry to do that, but I think it would help us all.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]Very good.Ms. Calverley, go ahead, please.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanAileenCalverley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1140)[English]Ms. Fung, thank you very much. I'm afraid Mr. Genuis's time has expired. Thank you, Mr. Genuis.We now have Ms. Zann for six minutes, please.GloriaFungLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1140)[English] Thank you very much. I want to thank the witnesses for coming forward today. I know this is a very emotional issue and a very worrying issue for so many of the people in Hong Kong, and for yourselves and your families.I do want to say that I did visit Hong Kong once and found it to be an incredible city. It's a unique city in the world, and I'm so sorry to see what's going on there right now. Observers have warned that the national security law has this extraterritorial reach, as was mentioned. Amnesty International, in particular, has stated that the law “applies to everyone on the planet”. Where and to whom do you believe this law applies, and how do the extraterritorial aspects of the law compare to national security provisions adopted in jurisdictions outside of China? Mr. Wong, would you like to start with that, and then maybe Ms. Fung could follow?ChinaInternational relationsNational securityGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestDavinWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1140)[English]Thank you.Ms. Fung, would you comment?DavinWongGloriaFung//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1145)[English] Thank you.Given all of that, to what extent do you believe it would be risky for foreigners who have advocated for greater freedoms and democracy in Hong Kong to visit Hong Kong, the People's Republic of China, or countries that have close relations with China?Who would like to answer that?ChinaHong KongInternational relationsGloriaFungAileenCalverley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1145)[English]Thank you.What has been the public reaction within Hong Kong to the national security law? Has there been any polling taken? I know this must be very difficult. How are people in Hong Kong demonstrating their opposition to the law, if at all? I'm sure they must be very worried.ChinaHong KongInternational relationsNational securityAileenCalverleyCherieWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1145)[English]Thank you.CherieWongGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Zann.[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for six minutes.LenoreZannCumberland—ColchesterStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, could you specify for whom your question is intended?StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Mr. Wong, I see your hand up.GloriaFungDavinWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Ms. Wong, please go ahead. StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleCherieWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[Translation]Thank you very much, Ms. Fung and Mr. Bergeron.[English]We'll now go to Mr. Harris for six minutes. CherieWongJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]Please answer very briefly. We have 15 seconds.JackHarrisSt. John's EastCherieWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]I'm sorry also, but that is how the committee rules work.Mr. Harris, thank you very much. Your time is concluded.Now, for the second round of five minutes each, we'll start with Mr. Chiu.Welcome to the committee.CherieWongKennyChiuSteveston—Richmond East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]Ms. Wong, go ahead.KennyChiuSteveston—Richmond EastKennyChiuSteveston—Richmond East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]That's quite all right, thank you. I think Ms. Wong is frozen for a moment. Should we go to Mr. Wong, Mr. Chiu? Is that okay?Mr. Kenny Chiu: Yes.The Chair: Go ahead, Mr. Wong.KennyChiuSteveston—Richmond EastDavinWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Thank you, Ms. Fung. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chiu.Mr. Oliphant, you have five minutes.GloriaFungRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]I'm sorry, Mr. Oliphant. I'm afraid we're at the end of your time.RobertOliphantDon Valley WestRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]We'll go on to Ms. Alleslev for five minutes.RobertOliphantDon Valley WestLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Fung, and thank you, Ms. Alleslev.We'll now go to Mr. Fragiskatos for five minutes.LeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillPeterFragiskatosLondon North Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English]I see Ms. Fong indicating a desire to respond to that. Please go ahead, and unmute. I'm sorry, I meant Ms. Wong. Excuse me. I'm sorry, she did have her finger up earlier.Ms. Wong, I'm sorry.PeterFragiskatosLondon North CentreCherieWong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English] Ms. Fung, you have 35 seconds. Was that answer all right, Mr. Fragiskatos?CherieWongPeterFragiskatosLondon North Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English]Thank you, Ms. Fung. I'm sorry, but we're over Mr. Fragiskatos's time. I hate to cut anybody off, but the committee has set these rules about how much time each member has. [Translation] Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.GloriaFungStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English]Thank you, Mr. Wong.[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron.[English]Now we'll go to Mr. Harris for two and a half minutes.DavinWongJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.That concludes our first panel for today. I want to echo the comments made previously. I don't think any of my colleagues who spoke didn't thank all of the witnesses and admire your appearance here today. We very much appreciate you coming before us. We'll now have to suspend for five minutes while we get set for our next panel. Thank you again.(1225)(1235)AileenCalverleyGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English] I call the meeting back to order. Welcome back. I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the new witnesses. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. Having said that, during the question and answer period I think you'll find that the member who is asking a question will indicate who they would like to answer. You can go ahead and answer without waiting for me, until we get to the end of their time. This is a reminder that all comments should be addressed through the chair. Interpretation in this video conference will work very much the way it does in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of the floor in either English or French. As you are speaking, if you plan to alternate from one language to the other, you will also need to switch the interpretation channel so that it aligns with the language you are speaking. You may want to allow for a short pause while switching languages. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute, please. The use of headsets is strongly encouraged.It's now my pleasure to welcome our second panel of witnesses. From Amnesty International Canada, we have Alex Neve, secretary-general; from the National Endowment for Democracy, we have Akram Keram, program officer for China; and from Human Rights Watch, we have Sophie Richardson, China director. Each witness will have up to 10 minutes to make an opening statement, followed by a round of questions from the members. We'll have at least two rounds, I hope. Mr. Neve, we'll begin with you. You have 10 minutes, sir.GeoffReganHon.Halifax WestAlexNeve//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Neve.We'll now go on to Mr. Keram for 10 minutes. Please go ahead.AlexNeveAkramKeram//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1250)[English]I'm sorry. I failed to unmute. That often happens with folks here. It's not usually the chair, but I apologize for that.While you couldn't hear me, I was thanking Mr. Keram for his testimony and also for holding up the microphone so that we could all hear him.We'll now go to Ms. Richardson for up to 10 minutes. Please proceed.AlexNeveSophieRichardson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1300)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Richardson.Thanks to all the witnesses for staying within your time for your statements.We'll now begin the first round of questions with Mr. Chiu for six minutes.SophieRichardsonKennyChiuSteveston—Richmond East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1305)[English]Mr. Neve, I'm sorry to interrupt but we're over Mr. Chiu's time, so thank you. Hopefully we'll all—AlexNeveKennyChiuSteveston—Richmond East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1305)[English]Mr. Chiu, your time has expired. KennyChiuSteveston—Richmond EastKennyChiuSteveston—Richmond East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1305)[English]Thank you very much.We'll now go on to Mr. Fragiskatos for six minutes.KennyChiuSteveston—Richmond EastPeterFragiskatosLondon North Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]Thank you, Mr. Neve. Mr. Fragiskatos, I'm sorry. You're out of time. [Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for six minutes.AlexNeveStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1320)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Richardson. [Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Bergeron. Mr. Harris, you have the floor for six minutes.SophieRichardsonJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1325)[English]Thank you, Ms. Richardson. I'm sorry to interrupt. I apologize, but we're over Mr. Harris's time. We're now on to the second round. Mr. Albas, you have five minutes, sir.SophieRichardsonDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1325)[English]I'm sorry, Mr. Albas. I have a point of order from Mr. Fragiskatos. I'm hoping it's not a point of debate.Go ahead, Mr. Fragiskatos.DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaPeterFragiskatosLondon North Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1325)[English]I'm sorry. This is not a point of order; it's a point of debate. Mr. Albas has the floor.Mr. Albas, go ahead please.PeterFragiskatosLondon North CentreDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1330)[English]Thank you, Mr. Albas—AlexNeveDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1330)[English]I'm sorry, Mr. Albas. It's no longer your turn to speak. I'm sure there will be time for debate and other matters in the future, and of course we're making that important distinction.We will now go to Ms. Zann for five minutes.DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1330)[English]Thank you very much.Thank you to the witnesses. I am a big fan of Amnesty International. I have actually been a member of it for many, many years. You do such great work. Thank you very much. Please keep it up.The Government of Canada has already characterized China's national security law for Hong Kong as a violation of international obligations. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, François-Philippe Champagne, has announced that, going forward, Canada will not distinguish between Hong Kong and China concerning the exportation of sensitive goods, and it will not permit the exportation of sensitive military items to Hong Kong. Canada is also suspending its extradition treaty with Hong Kong.In your opinion, Mr. Neve, what impact would these measures have on the situation in Hong Kong and on Canada's relationship with China? Also, what exact additional steps could the Government of Canada take, in your opinion, to help safeguard Hong Kong's autonomy and political freedoms and to support those who are seeking to advance democracy in Hong Kong?I know that is a packed question, but our time is short.ChinaHong KongInternational relationsSovereigntyGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestAlexNeve//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1335)[English]Thank you.I know the Government of Australia has announced new visa arrangements, allowing extensions with a pathway to permanent residency for Hong Kong passport holders who have a temporary skilled visa or a graduate visa. The Government of the United Kingdom has created a new immigration mechanism to allow about 2.9 million British nationals overseas from Hong Kong to apply for a visa of up to five years. After that they can apply for settled status and then naturalization, which sounds extremely good to me.What is currently known about the number of democracy activists and political figures who may be seeking to leave Hong Kong? Will they be allowed to leave or are their passports being taken away?AsylumChinaInternational relationsMilitants and activistsAlexNeveAlexNeve//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1335)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Richardson.Thank you, Ms. Zann.We'll now go to Mr. Genuis for five minutes.SophieRichardsonGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1340)[English]You have 15 seconds.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanAkramKeram//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1340)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Keram Thank you, Mr. Genuis.AkramKeramGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1340)[English]Mr. Genuis, your time is up.The next five minutes are going to be shared by Ms. Yip and Mr. Dubourg, I understand. Go ahead, Ms. Yip.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanJeanYipScarborough—Agincourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1345)[Translation]We only have 30 seconds. Mr. Dubourg, you have the floor.JeanYipScarborough—AgincourtEmmanuelDubourgBourassa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1345)[Translation]Mr. Dubourg, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but unfortunately there's no time left for the answer.Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.EmmanuelDubourgBourassaStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1350)[English]Thank you very much.[Translation] Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.SophieRichardsonStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1350)[Translation]I added about 15 seconds, Mr. Bergeron. In my opinion, that was well within the time it took. I have done my best to be fair to everyone.[English]Now we have Mr. Harris. You have two and a half minutes.StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1355)[English]Thank you very much.We have five minutes remaining, and that goes to Ms. Alleslev.SophieRichardsonLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]That's a very good way for us to conclude.I know that all colleagues would echo that and thank all of the witnesses. We are very grateful to you for appearing today.Our next meeting will be at the same time on Thursday.Thank you all, colleagues. This meeting is now adjourned.SophieRichardson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Hon. Geoff Regan (Halifax West, Lib.)): (1505)[English] I call this meeting to order.Welcome to meeting number nine of the House of Commons Special Committee on Canada-China Relations. Pursuant to the order of reference of July 20, 2020, the committee is meeting on its study on Canada-China relations. [Translation]To ensure an orderly meeting, here are a few rules to follow.Interpretation in this video conference will work very much as it does in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either floor, English or French. As you're speaking, if you plan to alternate from one language to the other, you'll need to also switch the interpretation channel so that it aligns with the language you're speaking. You may want to allow for a short pause when switching languages.Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you're ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone. A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.If a member wishes to speak outside the time provided for their questions, they must turn on their microphone and state that they wish to raise a point of order. If a member wishes to address a point of order raised by another member, they must use the “raise hand” function to inform the chair that they want to speak. To do so, you must click on “participants” at the bottom of the screen. When the list appears beside your name, you'll see an option to raise your hand.Make sure that you speak slowly and clearly. I'll try to do the same. When you aren't speaking, your microphone should be on mute. The use of headsets is strongly encouraged.[English]I should mention that the clerk has informed me that there was a major Internet outage today in Ottawa. We're hoping that it will not reoccur and cause us any problems, but the technicians are aware of that. I don't think they can do much about it, but hopefully it won't reoccur.ChinaInternational relationsJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]You know, I could ask Mr. Albas to wait until he is recognized, but I think that was a very helpful intervention. Could you go over that again, Dan?DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]Mr. Harris, is that helpful?DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]Beneath that list are three words: “Invite”, “Mute Me” and “Raise Hand”—JackHarrisSt. John's EastJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]Excellent. I don't see it, but you know how to do it, so I think we're all right. Thank you very much.JackHarrisSt. John's EastJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]Apparently the clerk is indicating that she sees it. I don't see it. That's odd. Is it raised on the list of participants? I'm sorry, but....JackHarrisSt. John's EastJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]I'm sorry for the confusion about this, but it's important to work this out. My expectation would be that we would see the raised hand on your screen. I wonder if that's not correct. Perhaps the clerk could clarify this.JackHarrisSt. John's EastJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]All right. Well, I'm going to ask Mr. Harris to do that again, because I didn't see it and I'm going to need to see it, obviously. ChristineHolkeJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]Okay, I see where it is. I'll have to have that off to the side then. That's going to be one more thing to have open here.JackHarrisSt. John's EastJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]I'm sorry for the delay here, but that's very useful. That's going to be challenging, perhaps, but I'll try to keep my eye on that. Thank you very much. Since my colleagues insist that the meeting stems from a recommendation by the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure, we need to ratify this recommendation before proceeding further. I understand that Mr. Oliphant is prepared to move a motion to do this. Go ahead, Mr. Oliphant.JackHarrisSt. John's EastRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.As stipulated in the latest order of reference from the House, all motions shall be decided by way of a recorded vote. I will now ask the clerk to proceed—ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsRobertOliphantDon Valley WestDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]I'm sorry. I guess you probably had a hand up. This is the problem with not seeing these hands up all the time. Mr. Albas.DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]All right. Thank you, Mr. Albas.Now I'll ask the clerk to proceed to—DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Okay, I'm having trouble with that. Thank you.Mr. Harris. GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]I think it's Mr. Genuis.JackHarrisSt. John's EastGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]That would be a motion to amend the motion before us. I believe it's in order. I'm not seeing an indication from the clerk otherwise, so I'll now ask the clerk to proceed to a recorded vote on Mr. Genuis's amendment to the main motion. Amendments and subamendmentsChinaCommittee businessCommittee meetingsCommittee witnessesInternational relationsMotionsGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanChristineHolke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]I'll ask Mr. Genuis to read his motion to amend, please.ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsRobertOliphantDon Valley WestGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]I have Mr. Oliphant and then Mr. Bergeron. RobertOliphantDon Valley WestGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Mr. Genuis is quite correct. I did ask the clerk to proceed to a recorded vote on the motion. ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Mr. Genuis, Mr. Oliphant is correct. I did not ask for debate on the motion, which clearly I should have done. So I will—ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Mr. Genuis, you're out of order. GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1520)[English]Mr. Genuis, I would ask you to speak when it's your turn, when you're called upon to speak and when you're recognized.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1520)[English]As I said, I should have called for debate. I did not do so. That's my error. I regret that. It's important to allow members to debate on the motion that you've made. ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1520)[English]I did not call for debate. We have Mr. Oliphant, followed by Mr. Bergeron. ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1520)[English]I will now call for debate on the subamendment moved by Mr. Oliphant. This is debate on the subamendment. ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsRobertOliphantDon Valley WestGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1520)[Translation] Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1520)[English]Are we able to call this a friendly amendment, then? Is that what we're talking about?Mr. Oliphant.ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsStéphaneBergeronMontarvilleRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1520)[English] All right, I'll call upon the clerk to proceed to a recorded vote on the subamendment.(Subamendment agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)(Amendment as amended agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)Amendments and subamendmentsChinaCommittee businessCommittee meetingsCommittee witnessesDecisions in committeeInternational relationsMotionsRecorded divisionsRobertOliphantDon Valley WestGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: Thank you very much. I would now like to welcome our first witness, Dr. Lobsang Sangay, president, Central Tibetan Administration. Dr. Sangay, you have up to 10 minutes to make your opening statement. Thank you very much for appearing.ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestLobsangSangay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Thank you very much, Dr. Sangay, and thank you for sticking to your time allotment. I know that members are looking forward to asking you questions. Of course, you will have opportunities to speak, and they will be looking forward to hearing from you.The first speaker in the six-minute round is Mr. Genuis.LobsangSangayGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you very much, Dr. Sangay. We've gone over Mr. Genuis's time by a few seconds.Mr. Virani, go ahead.LobsangSangayArifViraniParkdale—High Park//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Doctor, I'm sorry to interrupt. You may have chances with other questions to go further on that.[Translation]We'll now continue with Mr. Bergeron.Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for six minutes.LobsangSangayStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have only 15 seconds left.LobsangSangayStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[Translation]Okay.Thank you.[English]Now we have Mr. Harris for six minutes.StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Harris.LobsangSangayJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Harris.Now we will go to the second round.Ms. Alleslev, you have five minutes.JackHarrisSt. John's EastLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English] Thank you very much, Ms. Alleslev and Dr. Sangay. Mr. Fragiskatos, you have five minutes, please.LobsangSangayPeterFragiskatosLondon North Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English] Thank you very much. Mr. Williamson, you have five minutes.LobsangSangayJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]You have about 20 seconds, please.JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestLobsangSangay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Williamson.Now we have Ms. Zann for five minutes.I'm not hearing Ms. Zann, so, if members don't have a problem with this, I'm going to go on for a moment to Mr. Bergeron, and then I'll return to Ms. Zann. Maybe she's having a technical problem, and we'll give her the opportunity if she reappears.(1620)[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.LobsangSangayStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.I'll now switch to English.[English]We'll go to Ms. Zann, whom I now see on the screen. Hopefully she's there. Ms. Zann, you have five minutes, please.StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1620)[English]Hello, can you hear me?GeoffReganHon.Halifax WestGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Please go ahead. We can hear you, yes. I think she's having difficulty with her connection. I see that her image is frozen.LenoreZannCumberland—ColchesterLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1620)[English]Hello, can you hear me?GeoffReganHon.Halifax WestGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Yes, we hear you. Can you hear us? Can you go ahead with your questions, please?I'm afraid we'll have to carry on. Sorry, Ms. Zann—LenoreZannCumberland—ColchesterLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1620)[English]Hello. Actually, I think I'm here now.GeoffReganHon.Halifax WestGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Yes, please go ahead with your questions.LenoreZannCumberland—ColchesterLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1620)[English]I'm so sorry, but my Internet keeps cutting out.I want to say hello to Sikyong. It's so nice to meet you virtually here. I'm calling today from Nova Scotia on the east coast, and we have a large Buddhist community here in my riding in the Truro area, and also in Halifax. We have approximately 2,200 Buddhists, and three centres, so many people are concerned about what's happening with Tibet. I know many people would be very pleased to hear you today and say that we will do our best to try to support your issues and the problems that are going on with China.I'd like to ask you what is happening with regard to health care during the pandemic in Tibet. We're not hearing too much about that. How are people being looked after, and what is going on?ChinaCOVID-19Health care systemInternational relationsPandemicTibetGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestLobsangSangay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1625)[English]Excellent. I will come and meet you.LobsangSangayLobsangSangay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1625)[English]Thank you.I also wanted to ask you about the Indian-Chinese skirmishes along the border. I know that in May and June there were these deadly skirmishes. What is CTA's view of these skirmishes, and what impact did they have on China's military presence in Tibet?ChinaIndiaInternational conflict and international conflict resolutionInternational relationsTibetLobsangSangayLobsangSangay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Doctor.LobsangSangayLobsangSangay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1625)[English]Thank you.LobsangSangayGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Doctor, I'm terribly sorry to interrupt. Thank you, Ms. Zann. That's the end of your time.I would ask members.... Maybe that was me, but I don't think I did that. I don't think we should be using the symbols for clapping and thumbs-up and so forth. We can express it when it's our turn, of course. That may have been up by mistake in your case, Ms. Zann, because you had technical problems, obviously. It's appearing on the screen and I'm not sure why. Oh, I think it's my fault. Pardon me; it's entirely my fault. It's my mistake. I apologize.Now we're on to Mr. Harris for two and a half minutes. LenoreZannCumberland—ColchesterJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Dr. Sangay, I apologize for interrupting you again. I'm afraid we're over Mr. Harris's time. Thank you, Mr. Harris.We started a bit later than planned. As a result, I had in mind that we could go to about 4:45 p.m., if that's acceptable. I'm trying to manage it so that we have an equal amount of time for each witness. That would allow one more five-minute set for the Conservatives and one for the Liberals. I hope that's acceptable to members. We'll have to pause for five to seven minutes between witnesses, and then at the end, after the next witness, we'll have to pause for about 15 minutes, I'm told. I'm trying to manage all this time. I don't see anyone objecting, so I'll carry on with Mr. Genuis for five minutes.LobsangSangayGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Is there any debate on the motion?Mr. Harris.ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Harris.I believe the motion is in order. Of course, if members wish to debate it or not, it's up to members.I don't see anyone else seeking to debate the motion—ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsJackHarrisSt. John's EastArifViraniParkdale—High Park//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Well, I have Mr. Oliphant first, and then it will be you, Mr. Virani.[Translation]We'll now continue with Mr. Bergeron.ArifViraniParkdale—High ParkRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Mr. Virani.RobertOliphantDon Valley WestArifViraniParkdale—High Park//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor.ArifViraniParkdale—High ParkStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English] Next is Ms. Alleslev, and then Mr. Genuis.StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleLeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you. I have Mr. Genuis, Mr. Oliphant and Mr. Harris.LeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond HillGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you very much. Mr. Oliphant.GarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]I did have Mr. Harris next, but I think I'll go to the question of whether there's unanimous consent. Does anyone disagree?Mr. Harris, I think you wish to speak to this.ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Not seeing any further requests to take part in the debate, I'll call upon the clerk to proceed with a recorded vote on Mr. Genuis's motion.ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsJackHarrisSt. John's EastArifViraniParkdale—High Park//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Oh, I'm sorry. Perhaps I'm not seeing all the hands.Mr. Fragiskatos.ArifViraniParkdale—High ParkPeterFragiskatosLondon North Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English] I don't see anyone wishing to speak at this time. PeterFragiskatosLondon North CentreJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]I'm going to have to check that question. I'll have a quick check on that with the clerk.I'm sorry about that, folks. Mr. Harris, do you wish to move to adjourn the debate? That's what I think you're trying to do.ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsJackHarrisSt. John's EastJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]I'm interpreting that to say that you wish to move to adjourn the debate, which is the proper motion. ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsJackHarrisSt. John's EastDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Okay.DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaArifViraniParkdale—High Park//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]There are rules about votable motions, of course. However, when a matter is before the committee, a motion can be brought in relation to the matter that is before the committee.Mr. Oliphant.ChinaCommittee businessInternational relationsArifViraniParkdale—High ParkRobertOliphantDon Valley West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English] I'll ask the clerk to proceed with a recorded vote on Mr. Oliphant's motion.(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 4)The Chair: Thank you very much.I think it's time for me to thank our witness, Dr. Sangay. I know that all members have appreciated having you here. We're very honoured to have you, and especially to have you at what is now well after midnight. It's been very gracious of you to be with us at such a late hour and to give us so much of your time. Thank you so much. ChinaCommittee businessDecisions in committeeInternational relationsMotionsRecorded divisionsSovereigntyTibetRobertOliphantDon Valley WestLobsangSangay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Thank you very much.We will now have to suspend for a few minutes as we prepare for the next witness.(1650)(1700)LobsangSangayGeoffReganHon.Halifax West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English] I'll now call the meeting back to order. Welcome back.I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the new witness. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone icon to activate your mike. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. Interpretation in this video conference will work very much as it does in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French. As you are speaking, if you plan to alternate from one language to the other, you will need to also switch the interpretation channel so it aligns with the language you are speaking. You may want to allow for a short pause when switching languages.When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. The use of headsets is strongly encouraged.It is now my pleasure to welcome our witness, as an individual, Mr. David Mulroney, former ambassador of Canada to the People's Republic of China. Mr. Mulroney, you have seven to 10 minutes to make an opening statement. Please proceed.GeoffReganHon.Halifax WestDavidMulroneyH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Mulroney. You've assisted us by keeping your comments quite brief.We'll go to the first round now. Ms. Alleslev, you have six minutes.DavidMulroneyH.E.LeonaAlleslevAurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Alleslev.Mr. Fragiskatos, you have six minutes.DavidMulroneyH.E.PeterFragiskatosLondon North Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Mr. Mulroney.PeterFragiskatosLondon North CentreDavidMulroneyH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Mulroney, for recognizing the signal I was giving there.[Translation]We'll now continue with Mr. Bergeron.Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for six minutes.DavidMulroneyH.E.StéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Bergeron.We'll now continue with Mr. Harris.Mr. Harris, you have the floor for six minutes.DavidMulroneyH.E.JackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Harris. That's the end of your time. I'm sorry, Mr. Mulroney. You'll have to wait and maybe you'll have another chance to answer that when someone else comments or asks a question.We're on to the second round.Mr. Williamson, you have five minutes.JackHarrisSt. John's EastJohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick Southwest//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1735)[English]In 10 seconds, please.... I'm sorry. Thank you very much.Now we have Ms. Zann for five minutes.JohnWilliamsonNew Brunswick SouthwestLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1735)[English]Thank you very much.Thank you, Mr. Mulroney. Many observers have noted that the former Conservative government had a shift in its approach to China in the last years of its mandate. You were ambassador from 2009 to 2012. Could you tell us, perhaps, about your efforts to deepen our commercial relationship with China back then? Here in Nova Scotia, of course, we have a major supply of lobster, seafood and other things going to China. Our governments have really increased our exports. I'm curious to know whether you ever pushed back on your superiors at that time for tougher stances and not pursuing a friendlier stance. What has actually changed since you were ambassador?ChinaInternational relationsGeoffReganHon.Halifax WestDavidMulroneyH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1740)[English]Thank you.Of course, all of us are concerned about human rights issues. We've been talking a lot about them already today, with regard to the Uighurs and also the Tibetans. When it comes to your advocating for a tougher stance now, though, are you advocating for a full decoupling of the Canadian economy from China, or are you suggesting that we should continue? What would be the consequences, do you think, for the Canadian economy, including Canadian exporters like Nova Scotia and Canadian consumers, if we actually decoupled our economy and pulled back?ChinaCivil and human rightsInternational relationsInternational tradeDavidMulroneyH.E.DavidMulroneyH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1740)[English] Sorry, but would you suggest that we stop trading with China entirely? What would happen if we did that?ChinaCivil and human rightsInternational relationsInternational tradeDavidMulroneyH.E.DavidMulroneyH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1740)[English]Thank you, Doctor. I apologize, but we have limited time for each person, as you have seen by now, I'm sure.Now we're on to Mr. Albas for five minutes.DavidMulroneyH.E.DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1750)[English]Mr. Albas, I'm terribly sorry. I wasn't watching the clock closely enough. You're just past the five-minute time. We have to move on.DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaDanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1750)[English]The problem is that we're over your time. As you and all the members know, we have limits for each member. There may be an opportunity for him to respond as we go on, although there isn't much longer in the meeting.I will go to Ms. Yip, as I'm required to do.DanAlbasCentral Okanagan—Similkameen—NicolaJeanYipScarborough—Agincourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1755)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Yip.We have time for Mr. Bergeron and Mr. Harris.[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.JeanYipScarborough—AgincourtStéphaneBergeronMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1755)[Translation]Mr. Bergeron, you have 20 seconds left.[English]Mr. Mulroney, would you like to briefly respond to that part?StéphaneBergeronMontarvilleDavidMulroneyH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1755)[English]Thank you very much.Mr. Harris, you have two and a half minutes.DavidMulroneyH.E.JackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1760GeoffReganHon.Geoff-ReganHalifax WestLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ReganGeoff_Lib.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1800)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Mulroney. Thank you, Mr. Harris.Mr. Mulroney, thank you very much, not only for appearing today, but for your service to this country. I think we all appreciate that very much.This concludes this portion of the meeting. We now have to go in camera to discuss some committee business. We need to pause, I understand, for approximately 15 minutes. I hope members won't go away for very long. Maybe come back before that, because we have to actually disconnect and then reconnect into the in camera meeting.We'll see you shortly. Thank you again.[Proceedings continue in camera]DavidMulroneyH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1600)[English] I have a point of order.JustinTrudeauRight Hon.PapineauJustinTrudeauRight Hon.Papineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1600)[English]I have come to learn that the chairperson's power has gone out, and he is no longer part of this meeting. May I propose that we suspend for a few minutes for Wayne to—Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityJustinTrudeauRight Hon.PapineauPierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1605)[English]I got a message to the effect that his power's gone out. I have no reason to distrust him.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityPierrePoilievreHon.CarletonPierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1605)[English]There's no intent…. In my own private home here, in the middle of a pandemic, I don't have a fire alarm. I propose—Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityPierrePoilievreHon.CarletonPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1625)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Prime Minister. Before I begin, I want to express my gratitude for your assistance in securing a public inquiry into the mass shootings that took place in my home province of Nova Scotia. It means the world to us at home. To the matter at hand, you've acknowledged during this meeting and previously that you should have recused yourself from the decision. I appreciate your willingness to admit that. You've also mentioned that, when it first came up in cabinet, you pushed back against the competing concepts of the need to conduct due diligence and at the same time to recuse yourself. Of course, you remain responsible for the oversight of the policy direction and program implementation of the Government of Canada. Though I believe you were right to say you probably should have recused yourself from that conversation, I have difficulty with how you would have simultaneously exercised the kind of oversight that caused you to push back during that May 8 meeting. Had you recused yourself, how would this additional oversight have taken place if you had not been involved in the process and the discussion at the cabinet table?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsRecusalsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeJustinTrudeauRight Hon.Papineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1625)[English]Thank you very much.In terms of the process that we've learned to date, there was a public service recommendation. We learned two days ago, when the Kielburgers were at committee, that the public service actually recommended that they adopt a new foundation, essentially, or at least approve a new foundation to have the flow-through money to make sure that WE Charity was willing to accept liability. They said only a third party can do it. I understand, to your point about other members of cabinet providing that oversight, that it would have gone to cabinet committee before it came to full cabinet on May 8, where you still pushed back. I'm curious. It sounded like your reservation was about the possibility that there might be a perception that your family or people close to you would have directly or indirectly benefited. Were you satisfied when it came back to cabinet, when this was finally approved, that there was no possibility that your family, directly or indirectly, was actually going to benefit from the Canada student service grant program?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityJustinTrudeauRight Hon.PapineauJustinTrudeauRight Hon.Papineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1630)[English] Let's get back to the matter at hand. I was a former youth leader and I took part in different programs: the Canada summer jobs program, student government and the like. They hugely shaped who I am.I want to build on Mr. McLeod's line of questioning.Where do we go from here? I still very much support the values that you outline behind the student service grant program. I understand there are going to be difficulties over the course of this summer implementing something that will provide that kind of opportunity, but what's the next step? How do we get this program or some other support on the rails to provide the kind of support to students that you have clearly communicated is important to this government?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsStudentsVolunteering and volunteersWE CharityJustinTrudeauRight Hon.PapineauWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1720)[English]Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Ms. Telford, for being with us today. I want to prod into the May 8 meeting a little, where there was push-back and concerns were raised. In response to Mr. Barrett's question earlier, you indicated the kind of thing that was pushed back on was the binary choice presented by the public service. I'm curious. Did you or the Prime Minister actually push back on the idea that it had to be a binary choice? Did you ask that they consider other organizations? Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsPublic Service and public servantsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1725)[English]Nevertheless, they remained confident that the choice was binary. “We go ahead with WE Charity or the program doesn't happen.” Is that fair?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsPublic Service and public servantsWE CharityKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1725)[English]Did you or anybody else at PMO ever ask WE Charity to administer the Canada student service grant program?Cabinet ministers' staffCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsOffice of the Prime MinisterWE CharityKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1725)[English]There was evidence tendered before this committee previously. There was some other unsolicited proposal for a youth entrepreneurship strategy. Did you or anybody at PMO ever have conversations with the Kielburgers, or others at WE Charity, about that program? Cabinet ministers' staffCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsOffice of the Prime MinisterWE CharityKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1725)[English]Frankly, did you ever speak with the Kielburgers personally since—I don't know, we'll pick a date back around the beginning—say, the first of March, before the pandemic began?Cabinet ministers' staffCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsOffice of the Prime MinisterWE CharityKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1725)[English]Did you or anybody else in the Prime Minister's Office have any role in actually negotiating the contribution agreement?Cabinet ministers' staffCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsOffice of the Prime MinisterWE CharityKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1725)[English]All of the details around which entity was being paid would have been done through the public service, not through political office? Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsPublic Service and public servantsWE CharityKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1725)[English]Thank you. I appreciate the clarification as well.I'm curious. As a local MP I get unsolicited proposals all the time for projects, usually in my own riding. Is this something that you find comes up, perhaps with organizations that are bigger than the ones in my backyard, that actually pitch unsolicited proposals to the Prime Minister's office for policy ideas or programs?Cabinet ministers' staffCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsOffice of the Prime MinisterWE CharityKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1725)[English]The reason I ask is there was an innuendo through the course of this committee hearing that it was somehow inappropriate that an organization would have had an inside track to make unsolicited proposals, but I agree with you. I think it's actually a positive thing. In fact, those kinds of pitches have led to projects going ahead in my own community from non-profits routinely, frankly, that don't know the best way to turn. I'm curious. Have you actually seen any positive programs implemented as a result of those kinds of unsolicited proposals? I hate to put you on the spot. If there's not one front of mind, I'll let you skate on this one. Cabinet ministers' staffCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsOffice of the Prime MinisterWE CharityKatieTelfordKatieTelford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1725)[English] One of the things I'm curious about.... I was a bit involved through the finance team's efforts to take feedback from stakeholders all across Canada on some of the emergency measures our government has put forward in response to COVID-19. Frankly, I was not engaged in consultation processes with the Canada student service grant.From your perspective, how much time did this eat up in comparison to the other programs? I'm thinking about CERB, the wage subsidy, rental assistance, programs to support women's programs, to support charities, etc. I don't want to rhyme off a list of dozens of programs here.What was the time breakdown? Was this a major time-suck of the policy development, or how does it compare to the other programs?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityKatieTelfordWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1805)[English]I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.MartyMorantzCharleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—HeadingleyWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1805)[English]Mr. Chair, as you've made very clear on a number of occasions that the rules for this committee are the same rules that the COVID committee has been using, in that the questioner and answerer have equal time, without interruption. I would ask that my hon. colleague show a modicum of respect to our witness and give her the time to answer the question, because, quite frankly, as a parliamentarian who is trying to pay attention to what's going on, I cannot hear the answer that is coming out. I would ask that you enforce the rules that you made clear were in application at the beginning of this meeting.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1850)[English]Certainly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.I might just add my voice to that of some of my colleagues. There are two points in particular that rub me the wrong way when it comes to the proposed motion.I think chiefly my concern is about the precedent that this would set to start bringing more junior staff within political offices than those we've already heard testify. The Prime Minister of Canada and his chief of staff were here during this meeting. I've seen what has happened when we have had civil servants brought before the committee and badgered in a manner that I think is the kind of thing that will cause civil servants to more broadly be careful about giving open and honest feedback to governments. I don't appreciate the practice this committee has implemented in their treatment of certain witnesses. I think we will potentially go down the same path should we continue to pull more junior staff as witnesses in this testimony. I also want to raise the point that we don't actually have any evidence that there's been an effort by anyone at the political level to influence the workings of the civil service. If I heard evidence to that testimony, I would think otherwise. Starting to request documents that are subject to cabinet confidence when there's no evidence whatsoever that they will suggest what the opposition has been hinting they might suggest, I don't think is a useful exercise for the purposes of this committee. For that reason, I won't be supporting the motion.Thank you very much.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee requesting documentsConflict of interestGovernment contractsMotionsOffice of the Prime MinisterWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1920)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'll try not to take too much time. There are a couple of quick points I want to make. I hope you can hear me. I'm trying to speak a little more quietly. For those who didn't have the benefit of a previous discussion, I've moved around in my house to make sure I can hear my daughter if she wakes up. There are some unique things that arise when you're dealing with Zoom meetings and scheduling concerns.On the point of the motion, I find it a little bit odd that the Prime Minister is coming to the finance committee, as opposed to the other committees that are studying the same issue, given the nature of the motion we've passed. In any event, he has agreed to come. I think that's terrific. I made the point in our last meeting that I think three hours is a stretch. I think that some will agree and some will disagree with me on that point. I want to take this opportunity to speak to the previous point of order. Again, I'm not trying to drag this on forever. I did take a different interpretation, not as a result of the Zoom meetings or the technical capacity, but based on the standing orders in Bosc and Gagnon. I found it a little bit odd that we had a disagreement on the way the meeting ended previously. Obviously, Mr. Chair, you were acting on the advice of the clerk at the time.I looked into it, and I'll give you my thoughts. The standing orders in Bosc and Gagnon, as far as I can tell, don't explicitly rule that a committee meeting needs to continue after the scheduled hour of adjournment because there is debate ongoing. The closest thing to a defined practice that I could find came from page 1,099 of Bosc and Gagnon, 2017 edition. It says:A committee meeting may be adjourned by the adoption of a motion to that effect. However, most meetings are adjourned more informally, when the Chair receives the implied consent of members to adjourn. The committee Chair cannot adjourn the meeting without the consent of a majority of the members, unless the Chair decides that a case of disorder or misconduct is so serious as to prevent the committee from continuing its work.My interpretation of this passage, unless I can be corrected, was that the chair can't, in the middle of a scheduled meeting, announce that the meeting should be adjourned and say, “We're halfway through; it's over”, without canvassing the membership first to see if, in fact, they want to adjourn. This meeting would be a useful example. It was scheduled to end at 7:00. My argument would be that, Wayne, you couldn't have said at 6:30, “Hey, we're done folks, too bad if you disagree”, but at the time 7:00 rolled around, it would have been appropriate. This is my personal interpretation. I'd be interested in what the clerk's finding on it may be. Honestly, my real concern—now that I think I'm managing with my daughter upstairs—is that I don't fall into this trap again. I don't want to create a scenario where every committee can become an indefinite exercise that we haven't planned for. If that was going to be the case going into a meeting, I think it would be helpful to know that it's possible we could be sitting indefinitely, so we could all plan accordingly.I said I wouldn't speak too long. I have probably exceeded that expectation I set for myself, so I'll cut it off there. I would be interested in what the chair or the clerk's ruling may be, now or at another time. Thank you.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1245)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Douglas, for joining us today. Thank you for your service. Might I just add that the LGBT purge in the military is a stain on our nation's history that I continue to be ashamed of? I am just so sorry for your experience in that regard.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMichelleDouglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1245)[English]Turning to the matter at hand, I have a couple of questions about what the ordinary practice would look like. You said you have no personal knowledge of the Canada student service grant.Over the past number of years as a local MP or in my role as a parliamentary secretary, I've dealt with proposals that come in from groups who want to do this or that or who have an idea. Some of them, frankly, are pipe dreams from people who have no experience putting proposals together. Others come from well-established organizations with national reputations that can actually turn into great ideas. I wonder if you could, just in your own words, describe what an ordinary process would be like for the WE Charity to provide a proposal to a provincial or federal government.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMichelleDouglasMichelleDouglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1245)[English]Okay.Obviously, some internal work would go into developing some kind of proposal to meet these social needs that the charity would identify. I intend to ask this same question of our next panellists: In terms of the pitch that would eventually be made to government, who would normally be involved in that kind of process?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMichelleDouglasMichelleDouglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1245)[English]Sure. That's helpful information.On the government relations side of things, one thing I find both interesting and a little bit curious about WE as an organization is that a lot of the charities I deal with go through great pains to remain non-partisan. I find that WE Charity has been, if anything, multipartisan. They embrace governments of different political stripes. We've had pictures of different MPs and party leaders with the Kielburger family at WE Charity events. I'm curious if this was a strategy that was actually adopted by the board, or was it something that was done independently by the founders of the organization? Could you shed some light on that multipartisan approach to program development and government relations?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMichelleDouglasMichelleDouglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1245)[English]Sure. I don't mean to suggest there would an effort to ingratiate the organization with one party or another, but only that there was seemingly a complete lack of fear about engaging with different parties and governments. What I am essentially trying to figure out here is the tie between how the organization would develop these pitches and use contacts that they may have developed through this government relations strategy to actually get the attention of decision-makers on different potential policies. It seems as though a mix of different processes may have been used, with some internal development and some informal outreach, and eventually some conversation between someone at the organization and the government.From what you've seen or have learned about the Canada student service grant, I am curious to know whether the origin story of this program is reflective, in your opinion, of other programs that perhaps were successfully funded by different governments at different levels.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMichelleDouglasMichelleDouglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1415)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I'm very much enjoying the back and forth in the testimony, though I sometimes have trouble hearing the answers over the questions.First, one of the responses you gave—initially to my colleague Ms. Dzerowicz, and then to Mr. Fragiskatos—I found stunning. I want to make sure I have my understanding correct. Of the $500-or-so million program, there is an “up to” $43-million administration fee, depending on how many students can be placed. I was under the impression that this was going to provide some sort of benefit to the organization for administering this program. Am I correct in my understanding that every penny of that administration fee, if the program were actually executed properly, would not have gone to the organization but would have been exclusively for expenses?Administrative feesCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMarcKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1415)[English]So you're telling me, in no uncertain terms, that none of the affiliated organizations with WE Charity or the ME to WE Social Enterprise actually stood to benefit financially from executing this program.Administrative feesCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMarcKielburgerCraigKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1415)[English]I'm sorry to cut you off, but I do have limited time. I want to turn my attention, if I can, to....Mr. Angus, in his questioning, seemed to be very frustrated with the notion that there would be a separate corporate entity set up to limit liability. I practised law before I got into politics. It was routine to me to see corporate entities set up new companies for the express purpose of limiting liability. To be honest, when I first saw it in the charitable context—I have not practised much law in the area of charities—I found it a little odd, but it's starting to make a little more sense to me today. What I'm hearing is that you stood to gain absolutely nothing financially, but you were asked to take on all of the liability for placing 40,000 or more students during a global pandemic. I trust that if you did not have the opportunity to limit your liability, you would not have taken on the task of executing this program. Is that fair?AccountabilityCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityCraigKielburgerCraigKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1415)[English]When ESDC made that request, are you saying they requested that you set up a corporate entity, or they requested that you take on the liability?AccountabilityCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityCraigKielburgerCraigKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1415)[English]And their recommendation to the government that WE Charity was best placed to execute on the service grant program was made after you had made clear to them that your strategy to limit liability would be to set up a separate corporate entity that did not hold assets.AccountabilityCanada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMarcKielburgerMarcKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1415)[English]Thank you. That's—MarcKielburgerMarcKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1415)[English]Okay.I expect I have limited time left, so I'll try to get one question in and let you answer it as you will. I asked the previous witness about proposal development and sort of unsolicited program ideas that are submitted to MPs, to governments. I take it this is what happened, at least with some different program that preceded the student service grant, but I'm curious, more broadly. Is this something that WE Charity does on occasion? Have you done it with previous governments? Have you ever had other programs funded by previous governments after that kind of a back and forth?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityMarcKielburgerCraigKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1420)[English]When you were receiving those grants from the previous government, that would have been around the same time...it would have been contemporaneous with the hosting of WE Charity events or ME to WE events at 24 Sussex by Ms. Harper, or the attendance of WE Day or other charitable days or activities with other MPs of the governing party at that time as well. Is that fair?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityCraigKielburgerCraigKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1615)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'll start by just saying how frustrating it's been to be a part of this committee meeting. I am glad that we have ample time, thankfully. The inability of members to remain silent when it's not their turn to speak is deeply discouraging. I find it disrespectful. These are the kinds of things that we learned how to do in elementary school.With respect, I know there was some controversy over the point made by Mr. Angus about how much money had gone. This is a thing the NDP has been pushing for weeks now. I note that the leader of the NDP has put out a false tweet suggesting that the Prime Minister has given $900 million to his well-connected friends at WE. These are the kinds of things that we deal with and you kind of roll your eyes over.The fact is, there's actually something that I want to kind of figure out here, because there's a legitimate issue going on. We've already had the issue discussed today about the fact that the Prime Minister's mother is a well-known mental health advocate, but when I first saw that there was, in fact, a payment that went to her and that the government, of which her son is the Prime Minister, awarded a significant piece of work to have the student grant administered, I thought, “Okay, let's look into this” when the opposition pitched the study, and I won't prejudge what answers I hear.I do have a couple of questions about those payments and whether they were in the ordinary course of things for an organization like yours. What I'm really curious about.... Is this a kind of thing you do often? You said there were other speakers who had comparable rates. Who are they? How much did they get paid? Was it on a similar scale to what Madame Trudeau was paid or was it much different? How are you arriving at these rates? What I'm trying to figure out here.... If there's a habit of the organization to give significant grants exclusively to the governing party of the country, then I think there's something we have to look into. If this is the kind of thing where you take notable speakers with expertise in different areas and it was more or less par for the course, I'm also interested in knowing that.If you could give me some answers on how much your other speakers were paid, who they were and the nature of how those relationships evolved, I would be very interested.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsProfessional feesWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMarcKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1620)[English]Okay, if I may, one of the aspects of my question.... I threw a lot at you there, but I would like you to give an example. Are there other speakers you can share with us who have been paid for their services at the auxiliary events around WE Day?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsProfessional feesWE CharityCraigKielburgerMarcKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1620)[English]Okay, thank you very much.Mr. Chair, I'm probably quite close to the end of my time. Is that right?MarcKielburgerWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1620)[English] I hinted at this earlier on in one of my questions. I just want to know.... You mentioned you'd been working on the previous student service proposal that you had developed over the course of a couple of years. Had you submitted things like that before 2015, when we arrived in office as a government? Had you actually submitted informal, unsolicited proposals to previous governments or our government before this instance?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeCraigKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1620)[English]When you would submit those—Oh, sorry.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityCraigKielburgerCraigKielburger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to those who have intervened on the motion so far.I don't think there's a huge problem with the time at which the Kielburgers testify. Four hours seems a bit excessive to me. We haven't had any witnesses who have gone anywhere near that long. Maybe what I would suggest will be a friendly amendment, Mr. Fragiskatos and others. I don't know if this will cause you to support it or not. I'm happy to have this discussion. If the issue is around “as per the availability of the witnesses”, perhaps I would propose that it say “that the chair be empowered to schedule meetings with the witnesses listed in the request for today's meeting as the chair deems appropriate”, as opposed to “as per the availability of the witnesses”. I forget the exact language Mr. Fragiskatos used.This is not a big or important issue to me in terms of the availability of the witnesses. Four hours seems unprecedented in terms of what this committee has dealt with before, but if we want to negotiate a bit more time, staying within the reasonable bounds of what the committee has done before, I'd be quite happy to entertain that discussion.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1610)[English]I'm not sure if a vote is required on the amendment if the original mover is okay with it. In any event, the proposed—Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1610)[English]Look, if the issue is not the availability, I'm happy to have that chat, but the proposed language I have here is “That the chair be empowered to schedule meetings with the witnesses listed in the request for today's meeting as the chair deems appropriate.” The motivation for the change was to try to address Mr. Poilievre's concern about yielding power with regard to the witnesses' availability. In this case, we'll squarely empower the chair, who will figure out what is appropriate.On the issue of the time for witnesses, if we want to extend it a bit, that's fine. It does seem over the top to have four hours, but we'll have this conversation.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1615)[English]Thank you, Pierre and Mr. Chair.As I said before, I'm not really too fussy about this. From a logistical point of view, I believe there are other witnesses from WE Charity. Are they intended to be part of the same panel? What does this do to the anticipated schedule of existing witnesses or others who have been proposed?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequePierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1615)[English]Sure, and look, I don't even know that we're going to end up needing a vote on this. I hope we will be able to achieve some kind of consensus.For what it's worth, Mr. Poilievre, my concern is really around scheduling as much as anything else. We have some things going on tomorrow in Nova Scotia, including the return of HMCS Fredericton. One of my neighbours lost a child during the helicopter incident, and then there are some additional personal and professional things scheduled for the afternoon. There is no attempt to be tricky. I want to assure you that I'm not trying to pull some stunt. I just want to make sure that we have the ability to be there.Is there going to be any requirement, Mr. Chair, of the other witnesses from WE—not from CFS—who are going to be there? Are they Ottawa-based? I guess it's a teleconference, so it won't matter much. Is this something, from just a logistical point of view, you think is going to be easy to sort out from the committee's perspective?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1625)[English]Yes, I don't think we're at a subpoena stage yet either. For something that there doesn't seem to be big disagreement on, we seem to be talking in circles. May I propose that you invite them for four hours tomorrow, and that if, for whatever reason, they're not available, we split it up into two hours tomorrow and two hours on Wednesday, as an alternative? Make the pitch for four hours tomorrow. If that works, great.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequePierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1640)[English]Look, this a bit of a tangential point, but nevertheless an important one to me. I don't want to be small about these things, so I'll apologize in advance if it doesn't seem as significant as some of the matters at hand.Just in response to Mr. Ste-Marie's point about moving the committee times, on a personal and constituency level, one of the things I've really tried to do is to plan in advance to have certain meeting slots that have become routine for this committee so that I can do the simple things we all do, such as meeting with constituents, tending to the work that they would have us do, and, personally, just with a young family, trying to pair up my own schedule with that of my wife, who has her own career as well. If we can avoid, to the extent possible, changing with limited notice the time that our committee meets, I would greatly appreciate it. There's a reason that we typically have a waiting period before notices will take effect and can be moved at the committee, even for this kind of a meeting that is outside of the ordinary course. Just as a favour—although if we must move things in this instance, I'll understand—I would beg of the committee that we try not to make a habit of last-minute changes to the ordinary meeting times.Thank you.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1650)[English]There's a lot to take in here. I can even tell by some of Mr. Poilievre's Conservative colleagues laughing along as he's making these points that there may be— Now they're shaking their heads that I've said that. We should do our best to be reasonable human beings here. If somebody can get through the testimony now, that's fine. I find it ironic that on the one hand there's opposition to limiting some meetings while on the other we are extending others. There seems to be a bit of a conflict.The other piece that's grating away on me right now is that I think it's patently ludicrous to have an absolutely unlimited meeting length. I've been here only five years, Mr. Chair. You've been here probably as long as I've been walking. I don't think you would ever have seen a committee meeting that has dragged on indefinitely, with as many witnesses as anybody wanted. I by no means am trying to close things down prematurely. I supported the study of this meeting. I supported the idea of the Prime Minister testifying. I supported a full document production. I want to continue to be transparent. At a certain point in time, I think we need to give our heads a shake and realize that the COVID-19 pandemic continues to pose potentially the greatest threat our species has faced in my lifetime, with the exception of, perhaps, climate change. I don't want to waste months and months, or even weeks and weeks beyond what is actually necessary to figure out what we need to figure out, when we can be turning our minds to how we are going to best support Canadians not only to get through the continuing public health emergency but also to get back to work, grow the economy and improve the quality of life for the people who live in our communities.I know there is some interest in the story at hand. I think we should continue to have testimony from witnesses who have something important and unique to say. The idea that we will forever have as many witnesses as anybody who is attending this meeting should like is a bit over the top, to my mind. I hope colleagues will not break along partisan lines on this one. Actually, just ask yourself whether it's reasonable to have an unlimited number of witnesses. I think the answer is clearly no.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1705)[English] Thank you again, Mr. Chair.Look, though I'm enjoying this discussion, I know that Mr. Julian suggested that perhaps the ordinary way these things are dealt with is by virtue of the subcommittee. I can't help but feel that it might have been an appropriate forum for much of today's discussion.Frankly, Mr. Julian, I agreed with almost everything you said in your speech. Doing this the normal way, with the subcommittee getting the witnesses and establishing how to proceed, is not the portion of the motion I objected to. Where I think we have a point of disagreement—and I don't know if you'll come around to seeing things my way or not—is in the portion of the motion that discusses each of the parties bringing forward their witnesses and the committee hearing them until every list is “exhausted”. To my mind, that is in fact an indefinite period of time that would allow one party or another, if it so chose, to put in 200 witnesses whose testimony might have limited probative value. If the subcommittee wished to get together and discuss a path forward, that would be a very healthy discussion. If the motion included language demanding that the committee hear from every single witness that every member of this committee could put forward, I think we would create an environment that would be ripe for abuse, frankly. Mr. Cooper, I take your comments with great respect. I always find you to be articulate. There is no effort to demean the importance of the issue that is currently before this committee. My experience on this committee, since this Parliament has begun, has been extremely valuable to me. I've been very fortunate to have front-row tickets, in some ways, to the economic emergency response to the COVID-19 pandemic. There are three sources of information that have been as valuable as anything for me to get new ideas that I could use to help influence the government's approach to various policies: conversations with stakeholders, including in my own community; conversations with MPs from different parts of the country and different parties; and the finance committee. It was really an incredible experience for me to learn about things like the need to invest in the mental health of those who serve on juries in serious trials. It was really valuable to me to learn about the role of the Great Lakes Commission, which I knew very little about before the testimony. It was very informative for to me hear, at a granular level of detail, what investments in a green recovery might be able to offer in terms of the future growth of Canada's employment numbers and environmental and economic health. I could probably list about 200 different examples of testimony that I found valuable and was able to have conversations with colleagues about. There is a global pandemic on the go. It will require our continued attention and a world-class response if we are going to best serve the interests of Canadians. I do not view that position to be mutually exclusive to the idea that the current study before the finance committee is also important. Both things can be true at once. My only point is that I don't want this scheduling issue to turn into a forum to have as many witnesses as one party may like for potentially political opportunism rather than the substantive probing that I think has taken place to date and that I agree should have taken place to date. That's why I supported most of the motions that have come before this committee, with perhaps the exception of one motion when my power went out. I lost connection immediately before a vote on an issue that I would have supported.My only hope is that we can get together, be reasonable human beings and, as in virtually every other project, exercise or initiative that I've ever been a part of, try to figure out how long this should properly take and try to figure out where the real information should come from so that we can focus on the issues at hand rather than background noise, which will just confuse the issue for perhaps the purpose of keeping it in the newspapers, when there's actually an emergency that we need to respond to. I would pray that the committee members, whom I've enjoyed my time with, would share my desire to advise the government on what policies it can implement as part of the effort to build back our economy in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. I promise you, Michael, I'm not trying to be tricky. I want to have a solid inquiry through this committee. I think it's been valuable to date. What I do want to avoid is turning it into an exercise that is something other than a probative exercise, which would detract from our ability to advance policies to keep roofs over heads and food on the table.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1730)[English]Thank you once again, Mr. Chair.First, in response to Mr. Poilievre's commentary, should others wish this committee to sit and study things related to the economic recovery, I would be more than pleased to do so. I think he'll appreciate, given his experience in his role as a member of Parliament sitting on numerous committees, that it is atypical for standing committees to sit when the House is adjourned for the summer months. He can rest assured that as a local representative and the finance minister's parliamentary secretary, I have continued my work on this issue, literally on a daily basis, through this summer. It doesn't take place exclusively before this committee. Should the rest of the committee wish to supplement the work that I do and that the government is doing over the course of the summer, I think it would be an honest value added. I think that taking different voices from different perspectives would help inform this process.Mr. Ste-Marie, thank you. As always, I find your submissions valuable and interesting. I don't disagree with you. It's important that there be public trust between the government and its citizens. The only point I have an objection to, which I think Ms. May very professionally outlined, was the fact that it is unusual to have a motion suggesting that there be no limit to a list of witnesses that the committee must exhaust.Madam Clerk, perhaps we could bring this discussion to a head. If you could repeat the motion that's actually on the floor, I'd like to propose an amendment. It will be interesting to me to see whether committee members will dig in and insist that in fact this committee must exhaust every single witness that any member of any party proposes, in contravention of the ordinary practices of the committee.Madam Clerk, could I invite you to read the motion on the floor so I can fine-tune the amendment as we go?Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1735)[English]Yes, please.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityCarolineBoscCarolineBosc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1735)[English]That's excellent. I wish I had this in writing in front of me. It would make the exercise perhaps easier, but—Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityCarolineBoscCarolineBosc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1735)[English]If you could, I would. I'm struggling because the pen I've picked up has also run out of ink, if I can be frank. Give me a moment and I'll have you read it again.Please go ahead.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityCarolineBoscCarolineBosc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1735)[English]Perhaps I will move an amendment to the motion on the floor such that the amended motion would read: “That the finance committee continue to hold hearings and that the subcommittee convene...”, and just finish the motion as it was there.The effective change is only to delete the middle portion, which insists that all witnesses from every party be exhausted before this study concludes, which, I believe, is in accordance with the point that the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands has made; although, regrettably, in this instance, she's not a voting member of this committee.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityCarolineBoscWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1745)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I have a couple of concerns, and there are a couple of pieces of information that I think I'm going to want. Again, not having these things in writing in advance does make it challenging to deal with them on the fly.First, before I got into politics, I was in litigation. I think Mr. Morantz is a fellow lawyer, and Mr. Cooper is as well. I practised out west, mostly. I probably would have bumped into Mr. Cooper had I stayed a little longer and both of us had never chosen this profession. One thing I always found immensely frustrating was when there would be an exercise to essentially conduct a fishing expedition rather than have a targeted and reasonable approach to get information that was likely to add value to the matters at hand. I can't assess on a moment's notice which of the two approaches this motion constitutes. I wouldn't mind having time to conduct that analytical exercise on my own.Madam Clerk, I'm wondering if you could point to the language that was used in the earlier motion for the production of documents so that it's not simply a duplicative effort to get at more information for the sake of simply having the exercise drag on. If there's more information that needs to come out with respect to the matters at hand, then I don't have a problem having that information form part of this committee's assessment and analysis. However, I do want to avoid what appears to be a continued effort to just throw more at the wall, over and over and over, in an exhaustive way—not to double down on that word yet again. If you do have access, Madam Clerk, I'd be curious to see the previously adopted document production motion that we supported and that was passed by this committee.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeCarolineBosc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1750)[English]Just so that I can contrast the two, as I'm somebody who's always learned better with paper in front of me, one thing I'm trying to discern is the difference between the new motion....Pierre, maybe you can answer this, unless the clerk has the language right there. Are we dealing with things like just private communications, or is this stuff that touches on the Canada student service grant? It seems a bit odd. There's another concern that I have. Although I wasn't present for this particular testimony, I believe we had a journalist appear before the committee as well. I have some questions around that in its own right, but I'd be curious to know whether you'd be looking for things from journalistic sources and the like. I think there might be more difficulty here than meets the eye at first blush. I'm wondering whether the clerk or Pierre would care to shed a bit of light on that. That's something that I'd need to sort out before I could have an informed vote on this particular motion, which strikes me as a bit much, but I'm willing to listen.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityCarolineBoscWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1810)[English]Yes. Thanks, Chair.With respect, a bit of cognitive dissonance has gone on with respect to the treatment of various different witnesses and the willingness to accommodate their schedules. I only mean to suggest that it's unique for a Prime Minister to be willing to come and testify at all. I know there was some concern raised that either the Kielburgers or Mr. Li may or may not have other things on the go with respect to being present for testimony at a parliamentary committee. I can tell you from personal experience over the past few months that the Prime Minister is working specifically to help rebuild the Canadian economy right now. If we want to invite him for whatever period, that's up to the will of the committee, of course. I would be quite pleased that he's making himself available at all, quite frankly, in deep contrast to the practice of Prime Minister Harper when he was given the opportunity.Of course, this is up to the will of the committee, but my strong preference is to invite the Prime Minister, as we have. He has now accepted it. I'm quite satisfied with the fact that he's made himself available, which is quite unique for parliamentary committees, to say the least.Canada Student Service GrantCharitable organizationsCommittee witnessesConflict of interestGovernment contractsWE CharityWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1610)[English][Member spoke in Mi’kmaq and provided the following text:]Kwe Me’ Tawulotioq[Member provided the following translation:]Hello, how is everyone doing?[English]I want to say at the outset that I'll be sharing my time with MP May from the Green Party. Before I pass it on to her, I would like to acknowledge the chiefs and technicians for their time. As a Mi'kmaw from Nova Scotia, I remember studying the Sparrow decision in law school and knowing how important that case was to indigenous fisheries all across Canada, and for that I thank you. I'm also looking forward to hearing more about the culture change, as you call it, that you would like to see within DFO.At this point, I want to give time to MP May to ask her questions. Environmental clean-upFraser RiverIndigenous languages in proceedingsLandslides and rock slidesMi'kmaqPacific salmonKenMcDonaldAvalonElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1110)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.I just want to see what Mr. Jeneroux thinks of this. I think this motion is almost identical to a motion that was passed by OGGO. The documents are already being produced for August 10. I'm wondering if Mr. Jeneroux would consider withdrawing this motion because of this overlap. I'll read this for the benefit of Matt here and the rest of the committee. The motion by Kelly Block passed in OGGO on June 5, as follows: That, in the context of its study of the government’s response to the COVID-19 Pandemic and pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), the committee send for the following documents to be provided by the government by Monday, August 3, 2020 and that the documents be published publicly on the committee’s website by Monday, August 10, 2020 and that departments tasked with gathering and releasing the following documents do their assessment and vetting as would be done through the access to information process....5. All briefing notes, memorandums for information, memorandums for decision, and documents related to the Wednesday, March 18, 2020 Interim Order by the Minister of Health entitled “Interim Order Respecting the Importation and Sale of Medical Devices for use in Relation to COVID-19”; 6. All briefing notes, memorandums for information, memorandums for decision, and documents related to the Monday, March 30, 2020 Interim Order by the Minister of Health entitled “Interim Order Respecting Drugs, Medical Devices and Foods for a Special Dietary Purpose in Relation to COVID-19”; 7. All briefing notes, memorandums for information, memorandums for decision, and documents related to the issuance of Medical Device Establishment Licenses (MDELs) between Sunday, March 1, 2020 and Monday, May 11, 2020;8. All briefing notes, memorandums for information, memorandums for decision, and documents related to the issuance of Medical Device Licenses (MDLs) between Sunday, March 1, 2020 and Monday, May 11, 2020;9. All briefing notes, memorandums for information, memorandums for decision, and documents related to the recall of N95/KN95 masks including documents pertaining to the Monday, May 11, 2020 MDEL Bulletin produced by the Medical Devices Compliance Program....This passed unanimously at the OGGO committee. I'm sorry for reading it maybe a little too quickly and for the committee not having the benefit of seeing all the things that were moved, but it seems as though everything Mr. Jeneroux is seeking on behalf of this committee is in this motion, unless I'm missing something. I'm wondering if perhaps taking the findings of OGGO, and maybe even putting them on the health committee's website by that particular date, might do the same thing that Mr. Jeneroux is seeking of this committee.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1115)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I put up my hand prior to Darren speaking. It was with regard to a certain aspect of the motion, just to comment on the time change that Mr. Jeneroux put forward. I think it's spot on. It was something that I was going to highlight just in relation to the notices of motions that were given on June 12, with the request that documents be produced by August 3. That was about seven and a half weeks. I think pushing it back to August 31 and September 7 respectively is appropriate.I'll chime in on this item as well in a few minutes.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1120)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand where MP Jeneroux is coming from, but I think it would be another task for public servants to collect all these documents, other than being given the opportunity to just find out what was presented to OGGO and put on the OGGO website. It's not a hill I want to die on here, but it does seem like a less efficient way to get the exact same documents. I do think there's value in allowing OGGO to do that and then finding out what is presented to OGGO. Mr. Davies asked if there were any gaps. I don't see any gaps. In fact, the motion that Ms. Block moved was so fulsome that I think it covers this and more. I know it's not appropriate to move a motion to withdraw Mr. Jeneroux's motion. I would never do that, but perhaps we'll see where we go with this particular motion.Thank you, Mr. Chair.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1120)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair. Just briefly, I mentioned at the last meeting that obviously I'm relatively new to politics, but I do think that in this case, when you look at OGGO.... I stand by what I said at the last meeting, that the words “transparency”, “consistency” and “efficiency” are not mutually exclusive. I think in this case we would achieve the same results. That would be my two cents on it at the moment.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1120)[English]Are you speaking to me, Mr. Chair?RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1120)[English]Moving on from seeking withdrawal—and Mr. Jeneroux predicted this would happen—I would move, as we've done at all the other committees and with all of our other motions here, to remove the emails and take away that onerous level of work from our public servants, who have served us so well during COVID-19.I move that we do the same thing we've done in the past, with emails being removed from all of our motions, as they have been from all the committees. Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1135)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair.MP Van Bynen said a lot of what I was going to say around emails. Certainly there is a search function that would be able to bring up a lot of emails at one time, but, again, it's a matter of going through them, and it is the individual who sends or has received the email. You can't delegate that to someone else. I make that point.Let's put it on the table. Everybody on this Zoom is for transparency; everyone is for accuracy, but it astonishes me to a degree: Can we not be efficient? Can we achieve both? Clearly, that's not the case, and we'll be voting on that. I think Canadians are focused on transparency and accuracy, but also efficiency, so I will be voting for the amendment, obviously, going forward.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1150)[English]Mr. Chair, I want to know, based on what Mr. Jeneroux said there, if we could ask the clerk for clarification. I've been on multiple committees where it's gone back and forth at different times. I know that in the health committee we've always started with the government side, but is this something that we need to do?RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1155)[English]No, my hand just didn't come back down.I don't really have a problem with the way we did it. Whenever we did it that way, I thought back to my past committees, and it seemed strange that we always did it in that particular way. I wasn't sure whether that was a precedent we had set, or whether it was just a thing based on different clerks. It's all good.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1155)[English]Mr. Chair, on the past few motions at this committee, we talked about adding the vetting line, so I will move now to add at the end of that motion:, provided that the government does its assessment and vetting in gathering and releasing the documents as it would be done through the access to information process.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1155)[English]I could speak to that for a quick second.A lot was said at the last committee meeting about how we ended up with a motion that had more redactions than the committee was happy with. I have the wording here of the motion we used, and I'll put it out there for the committee's thoughts. It seems more like what we did last Monday when MP Kwan amended the motion and we had come to an agreement with that and passed that, but this is the wording that gave us the response that was more redacted than we wanted, which was what led us to move forward with Conservative vetting language from previous committees. This was what we had passed back in the day that provided less volume or detail than we'd wanted: that matters of Cabinet confidence and national security be excluded from the request; and that any redactions to protect the privacy of Canadian citizens whose names and personal information may be included in the documents, as well as public servants who have been providing assistance on this matter, be made by the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel of the House of Commons.That's the wording we used that gave us the documents that we felt were more heavily redacted. We felt the wording provided—that the department would do its assessment and vetting and gathering and releasing of the documents as would be done through the access to information process, a process passed by Parliament—made more sense and would likely give us more of what the motion is seeking. I know Mr. Jeneroux loves it when I read Conservative motions into the record, which I won't do now, but we've seen that passed at various committees with that wording, so I will move that amendment.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1210)[English]That is the wording. That is the addition to Mr. Jeneroux's motion.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1220)[English] Mr. Chair, I have a point of order. Are we going again the way we have traditionally gone in voting, or are we going to shake it up a bit?RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1225)[English]Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I think it's that the “department” does its assessment, not that the “government” does its assessment.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1225)[English]I'm just putting it out there that it's the same as with the last motion. This one is very much covered in the OGGO one. I won't read that back into the record again. It's the same one that covers all this.I'm just putting it out there to see if Mr. Jeneroux would be willing to withdraw this motion and have the information that OGGO collects, and we can put that on our website.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1230)[English]In terms of the motion, I would make an amendment around the removal of “emails” in the first paragraph, the first line.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1230)[English]Allow me to be transparent. I have no talking notes or briefing notes on it.I think one of the hallmarks of this committee is to have real, substantive discussion, whether it's from the NDP, the Conservatives, the Bloc, or my own party. I think we get into these generalizations that yes, Canadians are worried, and yes, Canadians want action, but when you use words like “don't trust”, there seems to be.... I wish there wasn't so much gaslighting that's happening on this committee in terms of certain terminologies that are used.I'll stand by my belief around the removal of “emails”, as stated in the last motion, but I think we can have a really good debate without that kind of discussion.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1515)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.The privacy and things that should be redacted because of this proposed amendment.... Imagine conversations with a province or a territory. Imagine names of ministers and public figures. I think it's important that we consider privacy.I get what MP Kwan is saying. It's important to ensure that the proper people are vetting this, but the language that is used by MP Sidhu is the exact language that was put forward by.... I read this and Matt got a great chuckle out of it last time, but this wording comes from Conservative motions. John Barlow moved:That, given the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food’s written response to M.P. Philip Lawrence’s question on the cost of the carbon tax to the agriculture industry, in which their analysis and estimates do not reflect the federal backstop, the committee send for a copy of all reports, briefing notes, memorandums, emails and documents related to the federal carbon tax and its cost, directly or indirectly, to the agriculture industry, to be provided in both official languages by Saturday, August 1, 2020, provided that the department does its assessment and vetting in gathering and releasing the documents as it would be done through the access to information process.We hear this angst about keeping things from the public. This is strictly about privacy, relationships and discussions.Kelly Block moved:That, in the context of its study of the government’s response to the COVID-19 Pandemic and pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), the committee send for the following documents to be provided by the government by Monday, August 3, 2020 and that the documents be published publicly on the committee’s website by Monday, August 10, 2020 and that departments tasked with gathering and releasing the following documents do their assessment and vetting as would be done through the access to information process[.]There are more. There are many of these, and they all appear to be Conservative motions, so I'm not sure why folks are up in arms about this.I will agree with Jenny that it's important that any vetting that is done be the proper vetting for the real reason of privacy. I share her concern about making sure that not too much is redacted and that the right people do the redacting.Thank you for that, Mr. Chair.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1515)[English]I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I'm sorry to interrupt, Dr. Kitchen. Those motions I just read, which were moved by Conservatives, were for documents that have not even been produced yet. Those are for August production of documents, so they're not old. That's not in relation to the one you're talking about that came back already previously redacted.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRobertKitchenSouris—Moose MountainRobertKitchenSouris—Moose Mountain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1520)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair.I'll certainly be supporting the amendment being posed here by MP Sidhu. We talk about the importance of transparency, and I think everyone would agree with that. Every Canadian would agree with that. Everyone on this panel and every staff member would, but I also think there are two other elements that go with transparency, and they are efficiency and consistency. I look at MP Barlow or MP Block, and, if it's good for those folks, I think it should be good for us, in this case. I think you can have all three elements: transparency, efficiency and consistency. I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1525)[English]Matt talked about this committee working very well together, and he's right. This committee has worked well together. In fact, I think if you look back on most of the motions that have come up through this committee, you will see they have been, for the most part, unanimous.We also have, for the first time ever, a really good relationship among the provinces and territories and the federal government because of the importance of this pandemic and the importance of working together. I'm quite proud of the way the provinces, territories and the federal government have worked together, just like, within the House of Commons, I'm quite proud that the opposition parties and the government have all worked well together. Parties have come up with great suggestions, and the government has enacted those great suggestions. I don't want to see what we're talking about here today interfere with that.We want to make sure that we get all the information we are seeking as a committee, but also that we protect the privacy of Canadians. That's what's important. MP Kwan said it very well. I can't even imagine the examples, but let's think about someone in Quebec being part of a briefing note or being part of documentation, and being named. That person does not deserve to have his or her name.... Matt's right about public figures. Public figures sign up for this stuff; a lot of people don't sign up for this stuff.I just think that if we have the ability to provide the level of privacy that Canadians deserve and expect from government, we should put this language in there. Again, going back to MP Kwan's points, making sure that this is done in the proper way so that it protects the privacy of Canadians is the outcome that we want. But, as Mrs. Jansen said, it's also about coming up with all of the information that answers all the questions of the people on this committee. I will continue. I have not yet heard any reason not to support Ms. Sidhu's amendment to ensure the privacy of Canadians.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1535)[English]I was going to speak on the main one, but I would like to get the wording of the subamendment so that I can write it down and see how it fits in with the amendment. I wonder if MP Kwan would reiterate her subamendment. I wasn't fast enough to write it down.I'll keep my hand up for the main motion as well. Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1535)[English] On a point of order, Mr. Chair—and I see Jenny has frozen for a second—could we get the clerk to tell us what that looks like, in its entirety? Sorry, Jenny.JennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1540)[English]It does, although I think it gets us to where MP Jeneroux didn't want us to go. I think it's more like the old motion and is not quite as good as the wording we had in using the Access to Information Act. I will defer to the folks who have been here longer than I have, but I think what we proposed would get us to the place that MP Jansen and MP Jeneroux were trying to get to. I'm going to continue to think about this.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1540)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair.I was going through two trains of thought here. I was listening to Darren talking about the original amendment and perhaps positioning where I thought my original points would be. To go back to MP Kwan for just a second, I'd like to build on what she was talking about, but in any event, I think I'll leave it at that. I think I need some time to think about Darren's point regarding the original amendment, as opposed to the subamendment, and what its original intent was.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1545)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Kwan's argument is exactly why I think we want to use our language, because the language that was very close to what is in the subamendment is perhaps what caused a lot of the redactions last time. I totally appreciate what you're trying to get at, MP Kwan. I still think ours allows for more information that the committee is seeking to come back. Mr. Chair, I'm not sure exactly how we proceed on this. I guess we have to—Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1545)[English]Okay. Can we go back to a question that Dr. Jaczek asked? This seems to be significantly different, not just a tweak. You did rule that it could be a subamendment, but it seems it's significantly different from what was proposed by Ms. Sidhu. I'm by no means second-guessing your decision, Mr. Chair, but I do think this takes us in a different direction, so I'm wondering how we proceed here. Is there a way of finding out if this subamendment does represent the integrity of Ms. Sidhu's amendment?Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1545)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1555)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'm wondering about the vetting process and whether a public servant can take the documents and vet them. I'm just thinking about the legal ramifications.Ms. Kwan, you took out the access to information process, which is what Parliament uses to vet documents. Did you take that out on purpose because you like the other possibility more? Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1600)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair. It may be my small-town mindset here, but it seems like we tried what's being proposed here in February, and it didn't work. Now we're proposing something in the original amendment that we think will. If it didn't work the first time, why would we expect a different result?The other aspect that I want an answer to—maybe here or at another time—is about the law clerk. Would they have the same training or ability to vet that an ATIP official would have? That's a question as well.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1600)[English]Thank you.I'll just ask a question of the clerk, if I may. Is the law clerk able to vet cabinet confidence?Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamEricaPereira//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1600)[English]I can't imagine that the law clerk would want to determine what is cabinet confidence as well. Have we thought about asking?I know MP Kwan gave an awful lot of information there that I was trying to follow. Was there something in what you read there, Jenny, that spoke to the fact that the law clerk would do this on behalf of the committee?Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicEricaPereiraRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I guess I've done as much thinking and talking about this as I possibly can. I still don't believe that law clerks can handle the cabinet confidence portion, maybe not even the national security portion. Ms. Kwan has talked about the clerk's office and the law clerk's office. I understand they're two different offices. I think I will continue to support MP Sidhu on this. I guess we vote on the subamendment and then, if that doesn't go through, we go back and vote on Ms. Sidhu's amendment. Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamMattJenerouxEdmonton Riverbend//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1610)[English]This is a question for the clerk or my fellow parliamentarians who have been here longer than I have. Does the law clerk have the security clearance to view the original document, or is security clearance not a factor in this?Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1610)[English]I'd like to make an amendment to the date, but I'm not sure that's what you're asking.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1615)[English]Okay. Thanks.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1615)[English]Could you tell me that again? Sorry, the committee just voted for the subamendment.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1615)[English]I have a quick point of order, Mr. Chair. What did we just vote on, then? That's what I voted on.EricaPereiraRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1615)[English]That was a leftover, sorry.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1615)[English]I talked about this before, in terms of the original amendment. I'm looking at the two dates in question, August 3 and August 10, that are in the original motion. Given that summer is going by so quickly and August is just around the corner, I'd like to make a friendly amendment in terms of the dates being changed respectively to August 31 and August 31.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1620)[English]That would be an amendment to what's in the motion, yes.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1620)[English]Sure. The documents would be provided by the government by Monday, August 31, 2020, and the documents would be published publicly on the committee's website by Monday, August 31, 2020.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1620)[English]I think that's reasonable. Hopefully, a lot of our wonderful public servants will be getting a little bit of time off during the summer. I think we can all agree that they've been tasked with Herculean work and effort in the last 110 to 115 days. August 3 is not very far away. I think it's a good compromise to move it up to August 31. Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1620)[English]Sure. Given what you just said, we'd be looking at the changing the first date, so that documents be provided by the government by Monday, August 31. What I'm hearing is that it obviously can't be done the same day. I think it's reasonable to look at a week later—September 7, perhaps.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1620)[English]I believe so.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1625)[English] Sorry about this, Mr. Chair. Maybe I'm slow on the uptake, but can you explain to me what we're talking about right now? I have some additional changes that I'd like to make; I just don't want to overshoot.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1625)[English]It's not coming off, Mr. Chair.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1625)[English]Mr. Chair, sorry but is this the whole, entire amendment? No more amendments can be made to this motion?RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1625)[English]It is.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1630)[English]Sure, and thanks for that. That's what I was looking to do, so perhaps the confusion was on my part.In the original motion, I'm looking to have removed the references to the Minister of Health's office and the Prime Minister's Office respectively.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1630)[English]Sure. Do you want me to read it?RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1630)[English]In the following—All documents, briefing notes and memorandums...regarding the emerging evidence that altered the government's advice on the wearing of masks referenced by Dr. Theresa Tam, Chief Public Health Officer, at her appearance before the Standing Committee on Health on Tuesday, May 19, 2020, including...documents, briefing notes...to/from/between Health Canada, the Public Health Agency of Canada, the Minister of Health's office, The Privy Council and the Prime Minister's office....—I'm looking to strike “the Minister of Health's Office...and the Prime Ministers office”.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1630)[English] I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I think it was clearly evident that I was trying to get my points across, and there was some confusion there.MattJenerouxEdmonton RiverbendRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1630)[English]Mr. Chair, sorry to interrupt, but also as a point of order, Mr. Kelloway asked if it was an appropriate time for him to move...as he had another amendment. You said that we were still on the previous thing, so he held back.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamMattJenerouxEdmonton Riverbend//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1630)[English]I have a point of order. I assure you that no balls were dropped, and I think—RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.When you have a memo going from one place to another, having that memo and having that memo are exactly the same. I think this is just a little bit of redundancy. You have your Public Health Agency in there. You have all the other groups in there. I think it makes sense that you don't necessarily have to have the “to” and the “from”.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1635)[English]When you talk about transparency and opening up, that's what we've done in this committee. On every motion that has come forward, this committee has worked very well together to come out with an outcome, so I take a little offence to this “open up and be transparent” thing when there's no lack of transparency here.There's no need to have the "to" and the “from” in the same memos and briefing notes, to have it all and to put these public servants to this level of work and effort to get a carbon copy of what we're getting from another group. Also, a lot of these things are going to other committees as well.I think it's relatively reasonable to think that we.... We just voted. The Liberal side didn't vote to support MP Kwan's motion. However, the rest of you voted to support MP Kwan's motion to narrow the scope, while we are trying to open it up to actually get to where people were wanting us to go. I think that what you'll see when things come out is that narrow motion is going to get you maybe less than you thought, but I could be wrong. We'll see when that comes forward.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1650)[English]Can we read the amended motion that we are getting ready to support? My understanding is that “the health minister's office” and “the Prime Minister's office” are now removed.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1650)[English]Yes, please. I'd like to hear what the motion says. Mine is all scratched up.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1655)[English]Got it.EricaPereiraRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1655)[English]In the spirit of MP Van Bynen's amendment, my understanding is that we should move to amend to exclude “Min O” in a separate amendment, if I'm not mistaken. I defer to my colleague on that, MP Van Bynen.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1655)[English]I wish to move that amendment, yes.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1655)[English]It was the health “Min O”. TonyVan BynenNewmarket—AuroraRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1655)[English]That's correct.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.The motion asks for all the “emerging evidence that altered the government’s advice on the wearing of masks referenced by Dr. Theresa Tam”. You're going to get that. You're going to get that from the chief public health officer, and you're going to get that from the Public Health Agency of Canada. You're going to get that from Health Canada; you're going to get that from the Privy Council. Again, a lot of the rest of it will be redundancy. The emerging evidence, the science that has directed COVID-19 since the start, the fact that we've said at this committee before that politics did not enter into the response to COVID-19 in Canada.... Probably the reason we've done so well in this pandemic is that we've used science to provide outcomes on how we proceed each and every day, and we have not allowed politics to get involved in this. So that's what you're looking for, that's what the committee is looking for: “emerging evidence that altered the government’s advice on the wearing of masks referenced by Dr. Theresa Tam, Chief Public Health Officer, at her appearance before the Standing Committee on Health on Tuesday, May 19, 2020”. That's exactly what this motion will bring us.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1710)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.With all these amendments, I'd like to move my own amendment. I would like to change the date of “2015” to “2010” in the middle of the motion, where it says, “regarding the management of the National Emergency Strategic Stockpile from 2015-2020, including supply inventory broken down by number and all updates sent to the government”. The reason I do so is that, tragically, when we came to government we saw that we had a stockpile that had, essentially, expired. It had expired equipment. The previous government somehow allowed that equipment to sit there and did not rotate it. Of course, we had a lot of feedback from members of this committee about how atrocious that was, and how this government inherited a very out-of-date and expired stockpile. I suggest that if we move back to 2010, we could, perhaps, get some information and data as to why that sat there gathering dust in the strategic stockpile.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1710)[English]Yes, it's where it speaks specifically to “the management of the National Emergency Strategic Stockpile”, not in the other parts of the motion.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1715)[English]Mr. Chair, I'll speak to that briefly.You suggested that there were no friendly amendments earlier. Of course, Dr. Kitchen has every ability to move a subamendment. I chose 2010 because the purchase of the equipment that was out of date and had to be disposed of was around the 2010 era. It wasn't in 2003 or 2004. I wouldn't mind clarity as well. I don't know exactly when the NESS started. I believe Dr. Jaczek would know that for sure, but I stuck with 2010 because that's when the products, the masks and the PPE, were considered to be new.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRobertKitchenSouris—Moose MountainRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1720)[English]Again, knowing full well that Dr. Kitchen can move a subamendment, I will stick with 2010. I've used the argument—and I believe in that argument—about putting our public servants to too much effort. I've questioned numerous times whether I would actually do the 2010 date, but I do think that when it comes to the national emergency stockpile, going back to when that product was considered new is what I would like to do. Again, Dr. Kitchen has the ability to move a subamendment, but I'll support the 2010 date. Thank you.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1720)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair. In relation to the dates that we passed here, September 8 or September 7, if we do this, I think we're going to have to push the date back a bit in terms of the ability of staff to pull the information together. RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1725)[English]MP Jaczek took the words right out of my mouth. I believe that 15 years of documents and whatnot will require the amount of time MP Jaczek has put forward, so I'll be supporting that. Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1735)[English]I don't know if it's dissent or not, but none of us really knows exactly what's involved in pulling all of this stuff together and how easy that is to do. I think it simplifies things to keep it as September 30. If Dr. Jaczek says that she's okay with her motion being amended, I'm happy to support her, but I do have some concern about that time frame and then complicating things by splitting it up.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1735)[English]Well, again, my feeling is that September 30 is a better time frame for this. Again, I will go with Ms. Jaczek's motion. If she says that she's okay with MP Kwan's subamendment, then, I guess, who am I to disagree?Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1740)[English]I can't argue with Jenny's logic there, Mr. Chair. JennyKwanVancouver EastJennyKwanVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1750)[English]Come on, Kelloway.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1510)[English]John, is this you? Can you step in here?RichardLehouxBeauceJohnBarlowFoothills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1510)[English]I think he's frozen.JohnBarlowFoothillsJohnBarlowFoothills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all of the witnesses for their testimony here today.As one of the youngest members of the House of Commons, I'd like to direct my questions today to the Canadian Young Farmers' Forum. I'll start with Mr. Glenn.You mentioned some of the Olympic averages, the thresholds, as part of AgriStability. For new entrants into agriculture, the young farmers, particularly around AgriStability, can you give us a sense how that five-year average is established if you haven't been in the industry for five years? This also applies to programs like the advance payments program, which I understand takes averages to decide how much money might be available. Do you have any thoughts on how that might impact young farmers and any thoughts on how those programs work for you?Advance Payments ProgramAgriStability ProgramBusiness Risk Management programsFarming and farmersProduction insuranceRisk managementYoung peoplePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePaulGlenn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English]No, it's fine. I have to keep moving on. I'm going to switch over to French for Madame Bissonnette.[Translation]Ms. Bissonnette, how could we enable young farmers to receive subsidies so that they can access business risk management programs? Could this option be available to new farmers, or could it also be available to people who are taking over the family farm? I can think of some scenarios, such as young farmers inheriting very profitable farms and having to pay compensation.Business Risk Management programsFamily farmsLiquidityRisk managementTransfer of propertyYoung peoplePaulGlennJulieBissonnette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to turn the rest of my time over to Mr. Louis, please.Business Risk Management programsRisk managementJulieBissonnetteTimLouisKitchener—Conestoga//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1510)[English] On the same issue, substantively I don't have a problem with what you're proposing, Peter. There's a technical piece that I have a little bit of a concern about. I spent a little bit of time working for an access to information organization and the way that you framed the motion has two issues that I have a concern about. First, to the point of national security and cabinet confidence, those would routinely be excluded under the ordinary process, as would things like solicitor-client privilege and real estate transactions. There's a handful of them in the Access to Information Act. The second piece is about the law clerk and parliamentary counsel and the disclosure of Canadians' personal information that could be included in these documents to the people you've requested make the redactions. I understand that, in and of itself, would be a violation of federal privacy legislation. You're right. I've seen this type of a motion in a couple of committees and I've seen as many or more essentially try to do the same thing, by tasking the department with producing them in accordance with the required access to information practices. Is there a reason? I really don't have a strong preference here, but there are similar kinds of issues that I've seen cause problems before. I'm wondering if there's a reason why you have the preferred approach with the language you've used as opposed to, say, the health committee...or I think the government operations committee had a similar one to what Peter has mentioned. I'm not going to dig my heels in and be difficult here, but if there's a reason to go your way I'd be interesting in knowing it, because I do see there could be a bit of an administrative difficulty and a potential privacy violation by proceeding with the motion as is.Committee businessWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1830)[English]Thanks so much. What a perfect place to pick up. You mentioned that there may be solutions that can be found that avoid filings at all. I'm curious to know if you have thoughts on what the federal government might be able to do to encourage those sorts of informal conversations that lead to solutions and prevent filings in the first place.BankruptcyCOVID-19PandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeElisabethLang//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1830)[English]I struggle a little because you stick so hard to the data, and I think we're in the business of trying to find solutions before the problems arise, so maybe I'll approach it in a different way.Before the pandemic, were there certain systemic bottlenecks that existed in the receivership and bankruptcy process? You mentioned that the courts to date have been holding up. I'm wondering, if there is an increase in the volume of filings.... Are there any sorts of links in the chain or steps along the critical path towards bankruptcy that were close to capacity and that might fail if there is an increase in bankruptcies?BankruptcyCOVID-19PandemicElisabethLangElisabethLang//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1830)[English]I was thinking on the business side, but I'm interested in both answers.BankruptcyCOVID-19PandemicElisabethLangElisabethLang//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1835)[English]I'm curious. Obviously, the provincial court systems would be the place where most of these CCAA cases would end up in the first instance, but are there certain regions or even cities...? I used to practise in Calgary, which had a very well-orchestrated commercial bench. I moved back home a few years ago to small-town Nova Scotia, where I'm from, and we don't exactly have the same capacity within our court system here. Have you ever done an analysis or do you have any views on which regions of the country may be busiest or—I guess this is a better way to put it—closest to capacity?BankruptcyCOVID-19PandemicElisabethLangElisabethLang//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1835)[English]It's funny. I have a local judge who just moved into the house next to me, so maybe I'll chat with him about it.I have an additional question that I'm quite concerned about. I think one of the reasons why you haven't seen the dominoes start falling is that there has been a mix of emergency supports that are landing in the right place. There have been, as you pointed out, informal dealings, as there's an incentive for a creditor not to force a debtor into bankruptcy, because they might come out on the other side.I want to make sure that we don't get into the business of throwing good money after bad if there are companies that are not going to come through this. I would rather deal with that now than spend a lot of taxpayers' money to float structurally unsound companies through a difficult period. Are there particular factors that you've observed historically that would be indicators as to when a company is likely to succeed in a financial storm like this?BankruptcyCompaniesCOVID-19PandemicElisabethLangElisabethLang//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1835)[English]I'm curious. One of the things I've seen from commentaries in the news on the issue of bankruptcies is about what we're likely to see. Perhaps when the emergency supports are no longer in place or when taxes become due, or whatever the case may be, when we have a clearer picture of what “normal” looks like, to use your analogy, that's when we'll have a handle on whether things have gone wrong or not.Certain sectors have been hit very hard. I'm thinking of restaurants, for example, and tourism operators. I've seen some concerns raised about the potential for significant liquidation efforts across entire industries, essentially, all at the same time. Have you ever seen an instance where an entire sector faced extraordinary pressure that led to difficulties in the liquidation process?Essentially, I'm trying to find all the things that could go wrong should there be an uptick in bankruptcies. I'm wondering if you've seen them before and what lessons there may be. Have you ever seen anything like that on the liquidation side of things?BankruptcyCompaniesCOVID-19PandemicElisabethLangElisabethLang//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1130)[English]Sorry, Mr. Chair, but can you just...? I was going to agree to the removal of emails, as Ms. Jaczek and Mr. Jeneroux had suggested. Are you suggesting now that we're voting on the motion or that we're voting on that unanimous...and then, if there are other possible amendments to this motion, they would come after that?RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1135)[English]I move that we remove the word "emails" from the motion.Amendments and subamendmentsCommittee businessCOVID-19PandemicPersonal protective equipmentRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1135)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'm wondering if Mr. Jeneroux would be willing to remove the PMO and the Minister of Health's office from this as well.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicPersonal protective equipmentRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamMattJenerouxEdmonton Riverbend//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1135)[English]I will move that we remove them.Amendments and subamendmentsCommittee businessCOVID-19PandemicPersonal protective equipmentRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1140)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair.I just want to echo what MP Don Davies said. I absolutely believe we have to have this discussion with respect to the motions on the table and, of course, our response and our suggestions to them. At the same time, as MP Davies mentioned, this is an important conversation as well, which I think we could look at, whether in a separate meeting or an in camera meeting, and we could address and discuss collegially the motions on the table and at that point be able to provide some feedback into those motions.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicPersonal protective equipmentRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1150)[English]Sorry to interrupt, Mr. Chair, but on a point of order—I don't know the committee stuff like you do—Mr. Davies was talking about moving a motion for a separate meeting, but then he moved a motion to adjourn debate. I think I would like to ask the clerk, perhaps, what happens when that has been moved. As I understand it, there is no discussion after a member has moved to adjourn debate. I'm just seeking clarity. Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicPersonal protective equipmentRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1150)[English]Okay. You see? You are smarter than me.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1155)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the witnesses for being here. I also want to thank Mr. Jeneroux. This is part of the process of committee, and he has every right to move those motions, and we could sit here and talk about those motions and hash them out for the full couple hours of the meeting.So thank you, MP Jeneroux, for agreeing that we could seek some type of discussion at a later date.Dr. Siddiqi, first of all, I just want to say that both of you gave so much wonderful testimony that is so valuable. One of the MPs, I think Mr. Van Bynen, commented about the importance of having this testimony in our report. This is our last meeting to get your testimony into this report, so that makes it so important that we get this testimony. If I ask you a question that you feel you've already sort of touched on, feel free to broaden those comments if you wish, because you gave so much stuff and I was trying to scribble things down and it just wasn't possible. I'll start with you on this question, Dr. Siddiqi. The pandemic, we agree, has disproportionately affected vulnerable communities. How can we do better going forward to address this disproportionate effect?COVID-19PandemicSocial marginalityRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamArjumandSiddiqi//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1200)[English]Dr. McKenzie, you listed many recommendations. Again, I was scribbling as fast as I could, but would you care to comment on this before my time runs out?COVID-19PandemicSocial marginalityArjumandSiddiqiKwameMcKenzie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1335)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Thanks to all of you for being here today. My first question would be for the Communications Security Establishment folks. We're hearing about coronavirus scams and phishing. Just this week, we're hearing about seniors who are getting calls about the top-up to COVID-19 assistance from the government on OAS and GIS, calls that are asking for information to access their bank accounts in order to deposit this money, when of course they don't have to apply for this money.How does your organization work with the local RCMP or with local police forces, I guess, to investigate something like this? Also, how do you work to ensure that the public is aware of these scams? We put it on our Facebook today, and it's been shared over 300 times.COVID-19e-SecurityPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamScottJones//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1335)[English]Thank you for that.For the folks at CIHI, we were all shocked at this committee—we have heard a lot about this, and Nova Scotia has been hit just as hard—to find out that four of every five deaths from coronavirus were those of residents in long-term care.What kinds of measures do you believe the provinces and territories should implement in long-term care? I know that you folks touched on this a bit during your opening remarks, but how are other countries tackling this problem?COVID-19Long-term carePandemicScottJonesKathleenMorris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1340)[English] They had higher death rates possibly across the board, but they were lower in long-term care.COVID-19Long-term carePandemicKathleenMorrisKathleenMorris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1340)[English]To the StatsCan folks, thank you for being here. Tell me a little bit about how StatsCan is changing from what they normally would do and going above and beyond because of this new normal and the impacts we're facing with COVID-19.COVID-19Information collectionPandemicKathleenMorrisJeffLatimer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1400)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair. Colleagues, staff and witnesses, thanks for being here today.My questions are for StatsCan. I'd like to start by talking about Canadians and mental health during this pandemic. We know that many factors related to the COVID-19 pandemic—job loss, isolation, uncertainty, anxiety—can impact the mental health of individuals. Can you describe the impact that COVID-19 has had on the self-perceived mental health of Canadians?COVID-19Mental healthPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamJeffLatimer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1400)[English]The numbers on any one of those groups are staggering to me. The 60% with respect to youth is quite striking.With respect to the report on self-perceived mental health, are there any policy recommendations that come from it? I know you've just mentioned some key findings, but are there any policy recommendations that you can share with the committee and the rest of us?COVID-19Mental healthPandemicKarenMihoreanKarenMihorean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1400)[English]Wonderful.Mr. Chair, how much time do I have?KarenMihoreanRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1400)[English]Oh, wonderful.Mr. Jones, we know that cyber-attacks on health and research organizations can come from many different actors throughout the globe, as in the case of a state-sponsored attack, for example. What plan is in place at Public Safety Canada or the RCMP, or both, to put an end to the attack, find the guilty party and prevent further attacks?COVID-19e-SecurityPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamScottJones//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1135)[English] Thanks, Mr. Chair. Hello to staff, colleagues, and witnesses.My questions will be focused on Innovative Medicines Canada.It was maybe three or four months ago now that I spoke with one of your team members, Bobby Sutherland, and learned that a number of your clients from start-ups to large companies were involved in researching COVID-19, and specifically vaccine exploration.Can you give me an idea of how many of these vaccine development projects are still under way, and are there any hopeful candidates? Can you give us a sense of where we are with what you know at this time?COVID-19ImmunizationMedical researchPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamDionNeame//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1135)[English]As a pharmaceutical company, how has your organization benefited from the $1 billion in national medical research strategy monies that were announced earlier in this pandemic? That's for either or both.COVID-19Medical researchPandemicPharmaceutical industryDionNeameDionNeame//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1140)[English]It's a web.DionNeameDionNeame//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1140)[English] It's fantastic to see that collaboration, which is obviously important and needed.I'm wondering if we can go back to a couple of comments that were made just previously. When I'm asking questions to witnesses, I'm doing a deeper dive on some of the questions. I'm really curious about your perspective. I think you touched upon it a little bit, but what influences companies to invest in research in Canada. What would be the top three that you would be looking at? Based on that, would your web of companies, or your network of companies, consider manufacturing or further research investments here in Canada? I guess my first question is this: What influences companies to do research and to invest in Canada? COVID-19InvestmentMedical researchPandemicPamelaFralickPamelaFralick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1225)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all of our amazing witnesses who are here today to provide this level of expertise. Not because he's in Nova Scotia and is a three-decade Nova Scotian, I want to stick with Dr. Halperin, if I could. Dr. Halperin, the Canadian Centre for Vaccinology is leading the first human clinical trials in Canada for a COVID-19 vaccine. Can you describe the technology used and how it differs from other potential vaccines?COVID-19ImmunizationMedical researchPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamScottHalperin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1225)[English] Where are you right now with regard to safety and effectiveness? Are you able to provide any of your early results?COVID-19ImmunizationMedical researchPandemicScottHalperinScottHalperin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1225)[English]When the clinical trials roll out across Canada, will that be just in Nova Scotia or will you be going to other provinces? Will you be utilizing or testing vulnerable populations in these clinical trials?COVID-19ImmunizationMedical researchPandemicScottHalperinScottHalperin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1230)[English]That's excellent. When we talk about immunity for folks who have had COVID-19, I don't know if the science is really there yet, but we've heard that it could be just two to three months. How does something like that impact an outcome of a vaccine?COVID-19ImmunizationMedical researchPandemicScottHalperinScottHalperin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1230)[English]Thank you.ScottHalperinRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1415)[English]I will do that, Mr. Chair. I have just a couple of questions with respect to Medtronic Canada. I understand that your organization has recently been named as a top workplace in Ontario for supporting the mental health of its employees. Can you tell us a little bit about your organization and what it has done to support the mental health of the employees in this pandemic? I'm looking at best practices, and I think sometimes the mental health side of things tends to get not as noticed as other things. I'm wondering if you could briefly speak to that. Then I have one more question.COVID-19Mental healthPandemicWorkersRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamPatrickHupé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1420)[English]Thank you so much. I have one last question, Mr. Chair. Then I will give up my time. Dr. Possamai, as a former senior adviser on the SARS investigation commission, you've talked about this, but if you had to look at the now and in the future, which is not that far if we look at a potential second wave, I'm wondering what you would recommend now for front-line health care workers, of which I have many in my family, in terms of a number of ways to maintain their safety during the pandemic.Caregivers and health care professionalsCOVID-19PandemicWorkplace health and safetyPatrickHupéMarioPossamai//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1420)[English]Thank you so much.Thank you, Chair.MarioPossamaiRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1200)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Mr. Konyndyk and Professor Gostin, you both said it was a great honour to be here in front of our committee today. I will tell you that the honour is all ours. I thank you for being here today.When I think of this pandemic, when I think of COVID-19, I think of the faces of public health. I think specifically of the importance of Dr. Tam, of the importance of Canada's relationship with the World Health Organization and of the absolute importance of trusting our experts. With regard to a novel virus, of course we are learning along the way as citizens, as the public and as health experts. I think of the importance of following science and data rather than politics. Personally, I feel that Canadians are very lucky to have Dr. Tam as Canada's chief public health officer.Professor Gostin, I believe it was you who spoke of public trust and solidarity. How important is it that we continue to trust in science and experts through this pandemic and into the future, assuming there will be more?COVID-19PandemicPublic healthRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamLawrenceGostin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1205)[English]Absolutely.JeremyKonyndykJeremyKonyndyk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1205)[English]Yes. Thank you very much. I couldn't agree more.So much has been said by both witnesses and members of Parliament about the World Health Organization. I expect that when this is all over, we can have a post-mortem. We can evaluate how we did as a country. You both mentioned how well Canada has done compared with some countries.Professor Gostin, you said, and I quote, “The WHO director-general must have freedom to act in the best interest of public health and science without political interference.” Do you want to add anything else on that, or to elaborate on that quote? COVID-19PandemicPublic healthWorld Health OrganizationJeremyKonyndykLawrenceGostin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1440)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Minister, welcome to you and your team.I think I can speak for every MP on this committee, and all the MPs in the House of Commons. We had so many constituents who were stranded all over the world due to the pandemic. I can speak for Dartmouth-Cole Harbour. We had young firefighters in Peru, we had seniors struggling aboard the MS Zaandam, and I think, again, we can all agree that it was a very challenging few months.Back home, we had families who were, rightly, very scared and nervous for their loved ones. The borders were closing, airlines were shutting down and it was a scary time. I want to take a moment to thank Global Affairs staff, consular staff and your team. Specifically, I want to thank your Parliamentary Secretary, Rob Oliphant, and his team.Our office, much like the offices of the other 337 MPs, was inundated with these calls and requests from these frantic parents and constituents. What your group managed to do was absolutely incredible. I also want to thank my constituency staff for the work that they did, basically working from home. It was absolutely incredible.Thinking about just how difficult this process was with all hands on deck, what was it like negotiating safe passage and eventual disembarking of passengers to get these Canadians home from dozens of countries from around the world? Tell us a little bit about some of the challenges that you and your amazing team encountered.COVID-19PandemicRepatriationRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamFrançois-PhilippeChampagneHon.Saint-Maurice—Champlain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1445)[English]Thank them for me, if you would, please.The numbers suggest that the measures we have in place in Canada are working. Of course, we're not out of the woods yet. People are starting to talk about international travel. We had airlines here yesterday. I'm starting to think about business and pleasure travel again. I'm interested in your views on when that might be appropriate and what that travel might look like in a post-COVID-19 world, or in a potential second wave. Perhaps we're always going to be in a COVID-19 world.COVID-19PandemicTravelFrançois-PhilippeChampagneHon.Saint-Maurice—ChamplainFrançois-PhilippeChampagneHon.Saint-Maurice—Champlain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1450)[English]Minister, my time is up. I do wish you a very happy birthday this Thursday—your 50th birthday. I hope you have a chance to get a little downtime.Thank you so much.François-PhilippeChampagneHon.Saint-Maurice—ChamplainFrançois-PhilippeChampagneHon.Saint-Maurice—Champlain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1240)[English]Thank you, Ms. Bessette. Thank you, Mr. Chair.My questions are to the Canadian Cattlemen's Association.You mentioned the western price index, and you've made it clear that you want to extend this program into the Maritimes. We know that would be beneficial for many beef farmers. You were proposing a pilot to start. Do you have an idea of what the cost would be to able to extend this coverage?Atlantic CanadaBusiness Risk Management programsCattle farmingPrice poolingRisk managementLyneBessetteBrome—MissisquoiCharlieChristie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1215)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much to the officials here from Transport Canada today.Can anyone on the panel tell me how your department has engaged with the airline industry on the restrictions and the guidelines the department has put out?Air transportationCOVID-19EpidemiologyPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamKevinBrosseau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1220)[English]We talk about how COVID-19 has been evolving, and the knowledge of how it's been evolving. What do we now know about the role of air travel in spreading COVID?Air transportationCOVID-19EpidemiologyPandemicKevinBrosseauKevinBrosseau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1220)[English]You talked about data and science in your opening remarks. How have the things Transport Canada has done been based on science and data? We hear an awful lot of people talk about this country or this state did this or that. How much of your response is based on what other countries may or may not do?Air transportationCOVID-19EpidemiologyPandemicKevinBrosseauKevinBrosseau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1220)[English]What's the status of train travel right now for passengers in Canada? I guess that would depend on a lot of the provincial regulations, province to province.COVID-19PandemicRail transportation and railwaysKevinBrosseauKevinBrosseau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1220)[English]Thank you.KevinBrosseauRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1255)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair, and hello to my colleagues. I want to thank the witnesses. Last week was National Public Service Week, and taking that into account and the work that the witnesses have done, I really want to thank you. My office and I had a lot of questions during this pandemic for Transport Canada, and you've been nothing but helpful during these challenging times. My question is one that will focus on contrast and compare. I'll utilize myself as an example in that line of questioning. Before the House adjourned on March 13, I would travel by plane at least once a week from Sydney, Nova Scotia, to Ottawa. Like many things, COVID has made me think twice about the spread of infection, and even when I go to the grocery store I'm thinking about it. When it's safe for us to return to Ottawa—it's more of a futuristic question—how would you compare the risk of travelling by plane to, say, going to the gym or having dinner at a restaurant? That's open to anyone.Air transportationCOVID-19EpidemiologyPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamKevinBrosseau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1300)[English]Do you see these measures that you just mentioned as the new normal, given that we may have a second round of the virus in the fall, and beyond that, who knows? Do you see this as a bit of the new normal?Air transportationCOVID-19EpidemiologyPandemicNicholasRobinsonNicholasRobinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1300)[English]Thank you. NicholasRobinsonRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1115)[English]Minister, on Wednesday of this week, I attended a healing walk in my riding where we were marching to bring awareness and to highlight our need to take action against racism.Along the way of about a kilometre walk, we stopped and paid respects in all of the places in that area where we've lost Mi'kmaw people without getting any answers as to why. It was very humbling to see this.During that time, I was approached by Annie Bernard-Daisley, president of the Nova Scotia Native Women's Association. She shared with me the frustration that she felt in that we haven't acted fast enough on the recommendations of the missing and murdered indigenous women's inquiry's recommendations. I shared with her that I would be willing to come and talk to them and give them an update.Minister, can you share with me what steps we are taking to address the recommendations and our time frames? Also, can you share with the committee some of the key things you've been hearing during your engagements?Action plansCOVID-19GirlsHomicideIndigenous peoplesMissing personsNational Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and GirlsPandemicViolence against womenWomenBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul's//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1120)[English]Minister, one of the things there's been a lot of discussion on lately is the systematic racism within the system. Mi'kmaw people and indigenous people across Canada don't feel that they're getting the same treatment in the justice system as regular Canadians. We know that this is an all-of-government approach—provincial, municipal and federal.Can you tell me a little bit about how we're working with our partners in different government jurisdictions to ensure that future Mi'kmaw women will grow up believing in a justice system that's going to help them, that is going to look after them, and that won't victimize them?COVID-19Indigenous peoplesJustice systemPandemicRacial equalityCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul'sCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul's//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1150)[English] Hello there. Thank you, Minister Bennett, for coming back to our committee today. I want to welcome everybody from the beautiful Mi'kmaq unceded territory here in Cobequid or Wagobagitk, as it used to be called, in Cumberland—Colchester. We were talking the other day about systemic racism. I have been listening to various programs, the CBC and various other things recently, and reading a lot, of course. What a lot of people are saying about systemic racism is that we need to keep hiring first nations and black members of the community and have more diversity in jobs, in businesses and also in levels of government. One of the things I remember from when I was in the provincial government here in Nova Scotia is having arguments with the deputy minister of a particular department because the all-white staff just couldn't understand that our Mi'kmaq community centre and museum did not own their artifacts because they felt the ancestors owned them. To try to explain that to somebody who just didn't get it and who didn't get the culture, I finally had to say, “Look, you're Scottish from Cape Breton, right? Imagine if you weren't allowed to sing in Gaelic and you weren't allowed to do Highland dancing or you would be thrown in jail. Imagine you weren't allowed to speak your own language.” These are the problems that have been building up. People just don't understand the culture. Again, as we mentioned the other day, it's a lack of respect, too.What can we do, Minister, to try to change that as quickly as possible? I think this will help deal with the problem of why first nations women and girls are treated like they are not even second-class citizens. They're just not respected or treated with value, and their lives don't seem to be as valued as others'. What do you suggest we can do as a society and a government?COVID-19DiscriminationIndigenous peoplesPandemicBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul's//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1555)[English]I can never get a far shake here.Thanks, Mr. Chair.I have lots of questions. I'll try to keep them tight, and I'd ask the witnesses do the same in their response.I'll go first to Mr. Shenfeld.There is a certain level of optimism, frankly, that I've heard, that within a few years we're probably going to get back to 2019 levels of economic production in Canada. One of the things I'm concerned about is not that we won't get there in a few years, but with what will happen to those people who are living in the bubble in the intervening period? I'm curious if you have advice on what we can do during the transition and recovery, not only to get our GDP and unemployment rate back to where they might have been in 2019, but also to ensure that we mitigate against the possibility of widespread bankruptcies at the household or small business level.COVID-19Economic recoveryPandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeAveryShenfeld//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1600)[English]Thank you. That's a good segue into my next question, which I'll direct to Mr. Perrault.Mr. Shenfeld made the point on one occasion during his remarks that it's not particularly costly right now to borrow to cover some of the costs of these programs that were really created by the pandemic. We've made the decision that the federal government is better positioned than households and business to bear those costs. Mr. Perrault, you made the point that there may come a time when that may not be the case. I'm curious. If the pandemic is the source point of these increased costs, is there a tipping point? What indicators should we be looking for? When should we say that the federal government is no longer the organization that should be bearing this cost and it should perhaps go to a different level of government or to households or businesses? I have a hard time seeing where they will be better positioned to incur these costs than the federal government will be.COVID-19PandemicSocial benefitsAveryShenfeldJean-FrançoisPerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1600)[English]Thank you—Jean-FrançoisPerraultJean-FrançoisPerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1600)[English]Thank you for that feedback.Mr. Chair, do I have time for one quick one?Jean-FrançoisPerraultWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1600)[English]Excellent.This is for you, Ms. Cooper. I was fascinated by your testimony. There were a number of pieces that jumped out, so thank you for being here.One of the points you made was that the federal government should be looking to support viable businesses that will essentially be able to stand on their own two feet at the back end of this pandemic. We don't want to throw good money after bad. I completely agree. However, there is a part of me that wonders if the federal government is really the body to pick winners and losers because, quite frankly, the private sector can surprise people. There is an entrepreneurial spirit when people have their own skin in the game that oftentimes is more effective than policy-makers sitting in a boardroom in Ottawa. I'm curious. How can we conduct an exercise that will give us confidence that the support that we're putting out there into the marketplace is actually reaching viable businesses and not just delaying the inevitable for businesses that weren't structurally sound going into this pandemic?CompaniesCOVID-19Government assistancePandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeSherryCooper//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1605)[English]Thank you to our panellists. This has been terrific. I wish I had another hour of questions, but I'll corral it there.SherryCooperWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan (Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard): (1325)[English] Madam Chair, I want to thank the member from Bonavista—Burin—Trinity for the question. Being a member from a coastal community, he knows how important the fish and seafood sector is to our local economies. Madam Chair, yesterday we were able to announce the opening of the seafood stabilization fund. People will now be able to apply for that fund starting on June 22. This fund of $62.5 million is aimed at processors, who will be able to retool their facilities in order to increase capacity with fridges and freezers as well as make sure that they have available PPE to make sure that their workers stay safe.We also opened the fish and seafood opportunities fund, which is going to give us an ability to directly market to the domestic market. Seeing as there are challenges in the export market and since we know that the fish and seafood sector is an extremely important part of our economy, we're encouraging Canadians to purchase local, healthy seafood.Madam Chair, we're going to continue to work with our fish and seafood sector to make sure that they're able to provide for our rural and coastal communities.Canadian Seafood Stabilization FundCOVID-19Fish processing industryOral questionsPandemicChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityCarolHughesAlgoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1800)[English]I was going to suggest the same thing, Mr. Chair. Let's just keep moving on, perhaps, with the next round.JohnBarlowFoothillsYvesPerronBerthier—Maskinongé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1800)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I have a long list of questions in front of me. I'm not going to get to all of them. Perhaps I could quickly ask them and they could either get addressed, or maybe I could follow up with each of the witnesses.To the Grain Growers of Canada, thank you so much for your presentation. Ms. Gowriluk, I really liked your example. It was very helpful. In Nova Scotia, I've spoken to many of our producers. Our Olympic averages are down in the five-year threshold. I assume that's the same for you. Maybe that's a question you could answer at some point. I would also be interested in hearing your perspective on revenues versus decline as what was suggested by Mr. Slade.Mr. Bourgeois, you mentioned enrolment and BRM. It seems like it had been at 48% and then 24%. Can you speak to that program, beyond that one commodity group?Lastly, Mr. Slade, you mentioned $300 million of an annual increase to get us back up to 85% reference margin. Is that going to be higher as a result of this year, because of all the uncertainty as a result of COVID?Back to your point, it may be more complex with AgriStability. Are we better off to go with enhanced crop insurance and actually enhance the amount of crops that are covered, and then double down on AgriInvest as a simpler way to support farmers?AgriInvest ProgramAgriStability ProgramBusiness Risk Management programsProduction insuranceRisk managementPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1655)[English]Mr. Burke, two days ago the Department of Agriculture launched applications for the surplus food rescue program. The idea is that, in areas where there's a lack of demand, it's created a food surplus, such as seafood in Cape Breton, and they will assist organizations that can demonstrate they can purchase the surplus food and get it to food banks. Were you aware of this option for processors? Is this something you might look into?COVID-19Fish processing industryFisheries and fishersFood banksPandemicSurplus Food Rescue ProgramKenMcDonaldAvalonOsborneBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1655)[English]Thank you, and I hope you share that.OsborneBurkeKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1535)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our witnesses for their testimony. It was great to be able to have three different dimensions in terms of the inspection side generally, the farm advocacy group through Ms. Robinson and, of course, a local farmer. The majority of my questions are going to be for Ms. Hatcher, who is from the Annapolis Valley.Ms. Hatcher—Kim—you mentioned the fact that there's been a huge uptake in local food and that the farmers market in Wolfville is simply doing very well because there seem to be more people buying local. How important is it for the online component, in terms of being able to have consumers use the CSA and be able to go on...? Has that created efficiencies for you as a business as well?COVID-19Farming and farmersPandemicWeb sitesRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamKimHatcher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English]Obviously, there's been a deindustrialization in the valley of some of the processing capability that we have locally. You talked passionately about the ability to try to bring back more local capacity, if I could use that word. I had this conversation with Earl Kidston today in Centreville. How important would it be for government to work around greenhouse production, whether it's with smaller producers like you, up to larger producers, particularly in Nova Scotia, to try to extend our growing season even further and perhaps into the winter months?COVID-19Farming and farmersPandemicKimHatcherKimHatcher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English]Our government introduced the first food policy in this country's history. This last week, Minister Bibeau announced the local food infrastructure fund. You mentioned Jenny Osburn in our community, who's been a passionate advocate. What does it mean to be able to have access through the federal government to support local food infrastructure, to support maybe some of the work that Jenny and others are doing to drive that local demand?COVID-19Farming and farmersPandemicKimHatcherKimHatcher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English]We have the Kentville research centre in Kentville in the Annapolis Valley. It has a long history of serving producers both small and large. Can you speak to how important regional research is going to be in the days ahead after COVID?COVID-19Farming and farmersPandemicKimHatcherKimHatcher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1540)[English]Thank you very much.KimHatcherKimHatcher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1540)[English]I'll turn a few questions to Ms. Robinson.Obviously, you mentioned business risk management, and that's something we've heard loud and clear on the agriculture committee from a variety of different commodity groups. You mentioned that, had there been a more robust package, which I assume is the 85% reference margin, which industry has been calling for, that essentially 75% of that $2.6 billion that CFA has referenced would be covered. With the existing program with the 70% reference margin, do you have a certain percentage of what would be covered? I understand you mentioned we put in $252 million in addition to the $200 million for the Canadian Dairy Commission, but how much would be covered under BRM, what percentage? Do you have that number?COVID-19Farming and farmersPandemicRisk managementKimHatcherMaryRobinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1540)[English]As I understand it, maybe it would be 50% , 40% or 30% of that $2.6 billion that would be covered. That's my understanding in terms of the numbers.COVID-19Farming and farmersPandemicRisk managementMaryRobinsonMaryRobinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1540)[English]Okay.MaryRobinsonMaryRobinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1540)[English]We've heard that. I want to get to that.MaryRobinsonRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1540)[English]Thank you.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair, and hello to my colleagues again. I'd really like to thank the witnesses for their presentations today. My questions are going to be directed to Ms. Hatcher. Before I get into my questions, Ms. Hatcher, you mentioned your pedigree. I think your pedigree is just fine. Thank you very much. We're glad to have you here.I want to follow a similar line of questions to my colleague MP Blois. Here in Cape Breton, we have a local organization called the Pan Cape Breton Food Hub. The food hub supports local food producers and works to help families across the island ensure that they have food security through these extremely challenging times. They source their food entirely from local farmers and have garnered a lot of support from community members.As challenging as the pandemic has been, do you think we'll start to see more support for local farmers and leadership from groups like the Pan Cape Breton Food Hub to fight food insecurity across this country?COVID-19Food supplyPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamKimHatcher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1605)[English]You talk about steps. I'm thinking, Ms. Hatcher, that if you had not the magic pen but the steps to put in place, where would you start?COVID-19Food supplyPandemicKimHatcherKimHatcher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1605)[English]Yes. It's that, and I think also the bigger picture in terms of food security, but let's start there.COVID-19Food supplyPandemicKimHatcherKimHatcher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1605)[English]Yes. Hospitals, restaurants and even universities that have—KimHatcherKimHatcher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1605)[English]—a large contingent of students throughout the country and throughout the world.... I really appreciate that.I want to stay with you. We know that there's a potential second wave in early September or at some time in the fall. I'm wondering if over the past few months you have adopted any new practices that will support your organization should we have a second wave. I think you alluded to some of this in your opening statement. You have a great platform. What advice would you give to other food-producing groups moving forward?COVID-19Food supplyPandemicKimHatcherKimHatcher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1605)[English] I particularly liked your opening statement when you talked about this being an opportunity to reform, not just reform but to reframe, thinking and doing in the industry when it comes to local food security. You're absolutely right. I think that is one of the first places to go, the small farmers, but also connected to other industry partners and all levels of government, so I thank you for that.COVID-19Food supplyPandemicKimHatcherRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1230)[English]Mr. Chair, on the morning of Sunday, April 19, my constituents and I awoke to a devastating tragedy that was playing out in our normally peaceful little corner of the world here in Cumberland—Colchester, Nova Scotia. It was a 13-hour rampage through the countryside, the largest mass shooting in the history of Canada, an act of violence by an angry, abusive man with a history of domestic violence and with access to guns—a lethal combination. It proves that private violence can become public violence and must be taken seriously as a danger to public safety.I thank the Canadians who reached out to Nova Scotians from coast to coast in our time of grief. We now reach out as allies to denounce misogyny, systemic racism, casual cruelty and calculated brutality, because the fight for social justice never sleeps.COVID-19Nova ScotiaPandemicShootings with firearmsStatements by MembersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1740)[English]Chair, I don't think he's here.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1740)[English] I just wanted to say thank you so much to the ministers for being here today. I know that it's been a very difficult time for all of us, and I know that you care deeply about the people of this country and the indigenous people of this country. I just wanted to say that we're all in this together and we need to make things better for the indigenous people of Canada from coast to coast to coast.Minister Bennett, with respect to the co-development of a national action plan in response to the issues identified in the calls for justice in the final report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, is that investment of $6 million for a single year or is it going to be ongoing funding to support that process?Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern AffairsHomicideIndigenous peoplesInquiries and public inquiriesMissing personsNational Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and GirlsSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021Violence against womenBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul's//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1740)[English]Thank you.How do you propose to go forward? Or is this part of what we are actually waiting for now? How are the families going to be involved as we move forward? Tanya Brooks was a missing and murdered woman, and we walk every year in her honour. The family lives here in Millbrook First Nation. What do you suggest is the best way to be moving forward?Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern AffairsHomicideIndigenous peoplesInquiries and public inquiriesMissing personsNational Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and GirlsSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021Violence against womenCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul'sCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul's//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1745)[English] Thank you, Minister.To get to the nitty-gritty of the racism that is at the root of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, we have to take a look at the fact that it's partly about respect. For one thing, women are not seen to be respected as equal citizens in the eyes of some men, and then when you add on somebody who is racialized, it's even more difficult for them. Anybody whose ever gone through a sexual assault of any sort, which many of us unfortunately have, know what it's like to be just an object and not actually thought of as a human being.What are your thoughts about what we can do as a government, as individuals and as members of Parliament to change that old-fashioned and just really despicable mentality? Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern AffairsIndigenous peoplesRacial equalitySexual discriminationSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021WomenCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul'sCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul's//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1745)[English]Or even walking along the street.CarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul'sCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul's//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1745)[English]Thank you so much, Minister. I really appreciate that.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1805)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Minister Miller, within our budget I was pleased to see an increase in funding for Jordan's principle. I'd like to acknowledge the work they are doing and the difference that these workers are making. Their work has been vital, both on and off reserve, to help those who have slipped through the cracks in health, education and a lot of areas where indigenous people had nowhere else to turn but to them.How will our recent funding help us reach full implementation of Jordan's principle, and what are some of the challenges that have surfaced during COVID that we are able to address with this funding increase?Care for childrenChildrenCOVID-19Department of Indigenous ServicesIndigenous peoplesPandemicRacial equalitySupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekMarcMillerHon.Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1810)[English]Valerie, you have one minute, please, because I have another question.Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern AffairsSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021MarcMillerHon.Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-SoeursValerieGideon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1810)[English]Thank you, Valerie.Minister Miller, during COVID, mental health has been something that we've heard a lot about in Canada. We've seen that the most successful models are where the first intervention is done by indigenous people themselves, often in indigenous languages, through social media or phone calls, instead of law enforcement.With the recent deaths of indigenous Canadians in New Brunswick, I'm wondering if the minister can speak about how our government is making mental health a priority and about what supports our government is providing to ensure that indigenous models of intervention are being utilized.COVID-19Department of Indigenous ServicesMental healthPandemicSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021ValerieGideonMarcMillerHon.Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1810)[English]Thank you, Minister. Thank you very much, Chair.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1835)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My question is for Minister Bennett.As we look to rebuild after COVID-19, we are looking to build back better. We've heard from many witnesses that the normal on reserve is far below the Canadian standard. Many witnesses stated that in order for first nations to grow and not rely on government, they need to access financial capital and loans to be able to grow their economies.I'm wondering, as part of our efforts to move forward, whether there is the ability for us to also include first nations government in that, in terms of their ability to grow through forgivable loans, interest-free loans, as we've seen as part of the COVID money.COVID-19Department of Indigenous ServicesFirst NationsLoansPandemicSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul's//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1835)[English]Thank you, Mr. Miller.MarcMillerHon.Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-SoeursCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul's//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1835)[English]Thank you very much.The band support funding is certainly good to see—another $24 million on top of the $48 million delivered to 222 first nations—but it was intended as an interim measure. I know that I've reached out to both ministers on the wage subsidy, on making sure that indigenous businesses are eligible. However, some of the indigenous leaders I've heard from are saying that the CRA has been telling them that they're not eligible because they don't pay into taxes. I'm just wondering if there's an ability to reach out to the CRA and to work between departments to figure out why some indigenous businesses are being told that they aren't eligible when our government has said that they should be.Canada Emergency Wage SubsidyDepartment of Indigenous ServicesIncome and wagesIncome tax exemptionsIndigenous peoplesSmall and medium-sized enterprisesSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021CarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul'sMarcMillerHon.Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1840)[English]Thank you.MarcMillerHon.Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-SoeursBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1840)[English]That's it.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1845)[English]I want to apologize. It's a hard life being a single dad sometimes.On a serious note, we've all been hearing about the institutional racism that exists in Canada. I've been frustrated myself, and deeply concerned, with what I'm hearing from chiefs who have lost community members because of what's going on. They have talked to me and pleaded for justice and change. I would like to get a sense from the ministers, especially Minister Vandal, who is an indigenous person as well, of what's happening now. What are we doing to address systemic racism and what are we doing to decolonize some of our institutions?Indigenous peoplesNorthern CanadaPolice servicesRacial equalitySupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekDanVandalHon.Saint Boniface—Saint Vital//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1850)[English] Thank you. Do we have time for any of the other ministers to answer that, Bob?DanVandalHon.Saint Boniface—Saint VitalBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1900)[English]Thank you very much, Chair. Thanks again, everybody, for all of your questions. They are really good and respectful questions from the committee and very interesting answers from the ministers. I really appreciate it.I want to talk again about self-governance. We know that when indigenous communities move towards self-governance and self-determination, they really have better outcomes right across the board. Jaime can tell us that is the case with education, for instance, and also with health care, and one would imagine with policing. If we can go in that direction and prevent all these terrible atrocities that are happening.... Two in New Brunswick just in the last while were health wellness checks, and people ended up with five bullets in them or two bullets in them. It's just terrible. My question involves the $24 million that was allocated to the band support program in the supplementary estimates. That was to help first nations move towards self-determination. Do you know yet—this is to any of the ministers—how that's being used? What else do we need to do to help first nations people and communities move towards self-determination?Perhaps all three of you could give a quick answer; I'd really appreciate hearing from all three of you.Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern AffairsFirst NationsIndigenous self-governmentSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekCarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul's//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1905)[English]Thank you. Minister Vandal, would you comment?CarolynBennettHon.Toronto—St. Paul'sDanVandalHon.Saint Boniface—Saint Vital//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1905)[English] Thank you. Minister Miller, would you comment?DanVandalHon.Saint Boniface—Saint VitalMarcMillerHon.Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1905)[English]Thank you so much. I appreciate that.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1525)[English]I'll do my best to give the witness time, and I'll focus on real-world examples where possible. There's a point I want to pick up on from my colleague Mr. Poilievre. It seems as though he wasn't listening to Professor Milligan's testimony before this committee. He pointed out very eloquently that it wasn't government decisions that led to increased cost to Canadians; it was the fact that we have a global pandemic that has created a certain cost. In fact, he said the government's response is probably one of the best ways to mitigate the social costs of the pandemic.From there we heard testimony from other economists who suggested that the federal government is perhaps in the best position to incur some of the debt that this virus has caused in order to, again, mitigate social consequences. When your predecessor testified, he made the same point: that if anything, this pandemic is likely to have a deflationary effect and that if there was some inflation, it might actually help the economy in these scenarios.Coming back to the point that Mr. Poilievre led with, which is really about the risk that a higher interest rate could potentially have, I'm curious about something. You mentioned that you don't believe there is a risk at present of that kind of an economic consequence, but why is that? Are there strategic risks we should be turning our mind to that could cause a sudden and unexpected hike in the rate of inflation or, more importantly for the purpose of this line of questioning, the rate of interest? COVID-19DeflationInterest ratesPandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeTiffMacklem//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1530)[English]I would like to come back, if there's time, to the issue of whether there are risks we need to be worried about on the other side of the equation. For now, as I have a limited amount of time, I'll pivot in my line of questioning.You were, of course, heavily involved with the expert panel on sustainable finance. In your new role, you made a point that I think is important about the independence of the bank. Obviously, helping Canada transition towards a greener economy and a more sustainable economy was necessary, in my view, before the pandemic arose. There's been an enormous coordination between OSFI, the bank and the federal government in the pandemic response. On the issue of sustainable finance or economic growth more broadly, how can we continue to see that level of coordination, which does not interfere with the independence of the bank but allows Canada to position itself most competitively to take advantage of the opportunities that were flagged in the expert panel's report on sustainable finance?COVID-19PandemicSustainable developmentTiffMacklemTiffMacklem//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1535)[English]Mr. Chair, if I could get five seconds.... If you're looking for my feedback on the five-dollar bill, I hope you're thinking about Terry Fox. Thank you. WayneEasterHon.MalpequeTiffMacklem//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1815)[English]Thanks so much. I'll build upon the line of questioning on the climate action incentive that my colleague began.I find the numbers that are cited are meaningless to most Canadians. I don't think very many of us, including, I assume, some of my colleagues on this panel, really know in a person's life how far $3.4 billion goes. I'm curious if you can break it down to a level that is more familiar to household finances.During the debate about putting this plan in place in the first place, we often used—“we” being the government—the example of a four-person household, two kids, two adults. I'm curious if you have the data on what the payouts in the various provinces would look like. I'm curious. Are you able to break down the household-level data on that $3.4 billion?Canada Revenue AgencyClimate Action IncentiveMain estimates 2020-2021WayneEasterHon.MalpequeJaniqueCaron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1820)[English]More specifically, Mr. Trueman, there are two things. If you could perhaps pick two provinces to illustrate, I think maybe Ontario and Alberta, just for the sake of illustrative purposes, what would a household look like? The key question I'm trying to hone in on is this: Is the payment to households in fact greater than the cost to households of this climate action incentive, as compared to the cost of the fuel charge?Canada Revenue AgencyClimate Action IncentiveMain estimates 2020-2021OntarioJaniqueCaronGeoffTrueman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1820)[English]Yes, sure, it's a different province. I think there are certain provinces that have higher emissions intensities, and it would be helpful, because we're not using this to transfer money between provinces, to illustrate the impact in another province as well Canada Revenue AgencyClimate Action IncentiveMain estimates 2020-2021SaskatchewanGeoffTruemanGeoffTrueman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1820)[English]As a general rule, in each of the provinces where the family of four example is being used, you would be confident to say that most households would in fact be better off in each of the provinces in which the federal program applies.Canada Revenue AgencyClimate Action IncentiveMain estimates 2020-2021GeoffTruemanGeoffTrueman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1820)[English]Just changing tack for a moment, I expect it will be Mr. Gallivan who answers this question, but I'm not certain.I appreciate that the estimates don't touch on the COVID measures necessarily, but during your last appearance before the committee, you made very clear on the enforcement around the CERB that the punitive measures for fraudsters would be reserved for egregious examples. You cited criminal organizations pushing 300 or 400 CERB claims in other people's names.Today a question came out in the House of Commons from one of my colleagues, Mr. Blaikie with the NDP, regarding one of his constituents he was concerned about who would have to be taking time away from work to take care of a loved one. I believe that was the scenario he raised. He was asking whether this person was going to be treated as a fraudster. I think one of the things we cannot make clear enough is that the punitive measures are certainly for those egregious examples.Can you confirm that somebody who needs to be away from work to take care of a loved one would not be punished as a fraudster, but would likely actually be eligible to continue receiving the CERB?Canada Emergency Response BenefitCanada Revenue AgencyCaregivers and health care professionalsMain estimates 2020-2021GeoffTruemanTedGallivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1825)[English]For some of those cases, I think we're dealing with people who are actually entitled to the benefit as well.During the previous testimony before this committee, we heard about, frankly, what I would have thought was unachievable in the administration of the CERB: processing 1,000 applications a minute. I seem to recall that EI applications were processed somewhere in the range of five per minute.What lessons do we have to learn on the administration of social supports? Are there strategies we can borrow from the phenomenal delivery of these emergency benefits in an emergency situation that can be applied in a non-emergency situation, going forward?Quite frankly, the people who come into my constituency office who seem to have trouble with these programs are navigating a byzantine structure to achieve a mishmash of federal and provincial supports and are often living in poverty. Are there lessons that can be taken from this effort that could be applied to help those people going forward?Canada Revenue AgencyMain estimates 2020-2021Public administrationSocial benefitsTedGallivanJaniqueCaron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1825)[English]Mr. Chair, just quickly, before I wrap up, I want to say that it is public service appreciation week. There are millions of Canadians who are better off for the work that you have done, folks. Thank you so much. They're the people I represent and they still have roofs over their heads, largely, and food on their tables, in no small part because of your work. I want to say thank you on this occasion. Thank you, thank you and thank you.Canada Revenue AgencyMain estimates 2020-2021WayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1530)[English]Thank you, Chief Paul, for joining us.I know you're quite busy, and I can state with confidence that Membertou is one of the fastest-growing areas of economic growth in Cape Breton. I thank you for your leadership in creating a better Cape Breton.You've shared with us that COVID has had major impacts in all areas of Canada, and I thank you for giving us a sense of the challenges that Mi’kmaq communities are facing. With the estimated loss in own-source revenue from Mi’kmaq communities, do you know whether the communal fisheries are eligible for the programs that the government has announced, like the wage subsidy, or some of the benefits for fish harvesters that we've announced?COVID-19Fish Harvester BenefitFisheries and fishersIndigenous peoplesPandemicKenMcDonaldAvalonTerrancePaul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1530)[English]Can you elaborate on some of the barriers that the Mi’kmaq fishermen are facing during the COVID era? Can you give us any examples of some of the challenges that many Mi’kmaq bands and Mi’kmaq people who are trying to get into the fisheries are dealing with due to the recent difficulties and challenges with COVID and beyond?COVID-19First NationsFisheries and fishersMi'kmaqPandemicTerrancePaulTerrancePaul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1535)[English]I'd like to go over to the federation now. I'd like to get a sense of what the difference is in terms of domestic versus exported. What is the actual percentage of our catch remaining in Canada versus going to other places across international markets? Do you have a percentage breakdown of what that would be?COVID-19Fisheries and fishersForeign marketsMarketsPandemicTerrancePaulMelanieSonnenberg//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1535)[English]Okay.This is a question for all the panellists. Would increased storage and increased capacity.... I know that for lobster and snow crab this is something that's a challenge. Would our government's increasing capacity and increasing the storage ability be something of great assistance during this COVID era?Cold storage facilitiesCOVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicWarehousesMelanieSonnenbergDuaneBoudreau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1535)[English]Thank you.Mr. Chair, I think that's all for me. Those were some very good questions and answers.DuaneBoudreauKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1220)[English]I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I have had no volume coming through for the last two minutes, and I'm checking everything here. I don't know if anyone can hear me, but I can't hear a thing. Perhaps it's just on my end. I lost the last things that this wonderful witness has just said for the last two minutes.SylvieBlanchetRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1250)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Mr. Thériault, for that suggestion, which I fully agree with and will support.Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to be seeking clarity here, but Mr. Paul-Hus moved two motions. Are we only dealing with the first motion that he put forward in the name of Mr. Kitchen on the closure of the Canada-United States border? Is that the only motion we're dealing with at this point? Will we pass or not pass that particular motion and then will we deal with the second motion today as well, while our witnesses are here? I'd just like some clarity. Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1250)[English]Yes, I am again just seeking clarity on this. We have one motion on the floor and there is now an amendment. That is what we are speaking to, not to the motion, but only to the amendment and whether we support it. The debate will be on the amendment by Mr. Thériault. Is that correct?COVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1250)[English]If we have other amendments that we would like to make, we would make them after we deal with Mr. Thériault's amendment. COVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1250)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm happy to come back with potential further amendments.COVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1300)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair.To the witnesses, my personal apologies for the delay here, but this is democracy at work and sometimes it gets a little messy.I would support the amendment that Mr. Thériault has put forward. It's logical, as Dr. Jaczek said. It is one that is based on common sense, at least from my perspective. My understanding as well.... Mr. Fisher mentioned, and I think this is accurate once again, that we're voting on this amendment. I have a couple of other items with respect to an additional amendment, and that will be forthcoming.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1300)[English]Mr. Chair, I had my hand raised from before, but I want to say that since this committee has been formed, Mr. Thériault has been incredibly professional, very prepared, and is known in the House as one of the hardest-working members of Parliament. I want to make sure that's on the record, Mr. Chair.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1325)[English]Mr. Chair, I'm not sure if it's the right time, but speaking of timing, can I speak to the timeline of August 10 or would that be something separate?Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1325)[English]Okay, wonderful.In terms of the documents being submitted by August 10, given many of the points that have been made this afternoon in terms of timelines and the volume and girth of documents to be reviewed, I'm wondering if it would be helpful to extend the timeline by two weeks, to the end of August, to enable staff to do the work they need to do, which will be quite a lot. I'd put forth an amendment for discussion to extend the deadline for producing said documents to by or on August 31.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1325)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I just want to get clarification on Mr. Kelloway's amendment. Is he saying “on” August 31 or is he keeping the words the same as what Mr. Paul-Hus had moved, “no later than” August 31?Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamMikeKellowayCape Breton—Canso//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1325)[English]I was thinking “on”, Mr. Fisher.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1325)[English]If all the subject matter is put together prior to the 31st, you want it held until the 31st?Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicMikeKellowayCape Breton—CansoMikeKellowayCape Breton—Canso//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1325)[English]That's a good question. My original intent was to have it submitted on August 31.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1325)[English]Thank you for that clarity.MikeKellowayCape Breton—CansoRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1325)[English]I'd be open to having the documents provided no later than August 31. Mr. Chair, I'll clarify my original statement to say “no later than August 31, 2020”.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1335)[English]I'm good now that I have clarity. As Dr. Jaczek said, and as MP Sidhu said, if these documents are put together in a pile before August 31, I think then it's prudent to get them out before the 31st. So, “no later than” works for me.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1340)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I think Don made some very good comments there, as did Mr. Thériault. If the 10th is arbitrary and the 31st is arbitrary, my personal belief is that I want our public servants working on the matter in front of them—the pandemic. Mr. Van Bynen talked about in one day getting 91 emails; that's as an MP. In our office, if you add up the emails that come in with our various accounts, it's several hundred a day. Imagine those public servants having to.... Maybe Don is right. Maybe they don't have to stop their work. Maybe they can walk and chew gum at the same time. However, the important job here right now is taking care of Canadians during this pandemic and providing good advice.Yes, the 10th and the 31st could be very arbitrary, and again, we have the “no later than” in this amendment, so I would suggest that we consider supporting the 30th and no later than the 31st and we give these public servants the time they need to focus on their jobs, on what they're tasked with doing every single day.Don's right. We're probably at the end of the debate on this. Again, I want to thank him for his comments. This is the important stuff. This is the only time we get a chance to get together and hammer these things out. We are in a minority and we are finding ways. This committee has done a very good job since we formed. We were the first committee that formed and we've been able to get together, figure things out and make things work pretty well. Maybe there's a bump in the road every now and again, but I think what we've got on this committee is a group of MPs who really do want to get to the same place, maybe not exactly in the same way.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1345)[English]Mr. Paul-Hus took the words right out of my mouth. I think we're at a point now where we should vote on the motion. I thank my colleagues for a spirited debate. There were a lot of great points and some that I'll consider different from mine, but that's what democracy is about. I recommend that we put this to a vote.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1350)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would like to propose the following amendment. I would like to add, after “August 10, 2020” the words “provided that the department does its assessment and vetting in gathering and releasing the documents as it would be done through the access to information process”.This amendment has been added to several of the other committees when they've done motions just like this. John Barlow moved in AGRI on Friday, June 5: That, given the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food’s written response to M.P. Philip Lawrence’s question on the cost of the carbon tax to the agriculture industry, in which their analysis and estimates do not reflect the federal backstop, the committee send for a copy of all reports, briefing notes, memorandums, emails and documents related to the federal carbon tax and its cost, directly or indirectly, to the agriculture industry, to be provided in both official languages by Saturday, August 1, 2020, provided that the Department does its assessment and vetting in gathering and releasing the documents as it would be done through the access to information process.This was done also in several other motions. I'm not sure if you want me to read them all into the record, but Mr. Barlow moved them in two or three different motions. Kelly Block moved: That, in the context of its study of the government’s response to the COVID-19 Pandemic and pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), the committee send for the following documents to be provided by the government by Monday, August 3, 2020 and that the documents be published publicly on the committee’s website by Monday, August 10, 2020 and that departments tasked with gathering and releasing the following documents do their assessment and vetting as would be done through the access to information process:I've got several more here, Mr. Chair. It seems that is the way most of the motions have gone, both in English and French, from Madam Block and Mr. Barlow as well. So I would suggest that we tag that on to the end of this motion as well. So moved. Thank you, Mr. Chair.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1355)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Basically, any agreements that we have on the Canadian border and the United States border are bilateral. They require an ongoing agreement with the United States. Decisions have to be made with that in mind. If we apply the ATIP rules, that would ensure that any sensitive materials pertaining to the Canada-U.S. border are not released to the public.I would suggest, Mr. Chair, that this is a good time to vote.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1400)[English]Just on a point of order, Mr. Chair, the other motion wasn't moved. It was read, but it wasn't moved.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1405)[English]Mr. Chair, I think this notice of motion by Mr. Kitchen is a pretty good motion. I'm inclined to support this.Thank you, Mr. Chair.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1450)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'm going to start my questions with Mr. Haerle.During your remarks, you mentioned the fact that grain farmers were losing money. Essentially, it was costing more than what they could get in return from the market. Am I to understand right now that farmers, literally, every time they ship product, are losing money, or have they just lost margins on what their prior profit margin had been?Business Risk Management programsCereals productionFreight transportationRisk managementPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeMarkusHaerle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1450)[English]I appreciate that, Mr. Haerle. What I'm hearing is that it's not all farmers who are necessarily losing money, but there's disruption in the market. I take your point on that. I want to move to some of the commercials I've seen from the Grain Farmers of Ontario. You mentioned that the president can change the world with one tweet. You used that as part of some marketing campaign in terms of the shelves being bare and some of the concerns that you wanted to raise as an industry. We've had other groups that have said there are disruptions but that we probably are not going to expect any bare shelves. Is that still the expectation, that we're going to see bare shelves in stores across Canada?Business Risk Management programsCereals productionFood supplyRisk managementMarkusHaerleMarkusHaerle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1450)[English]I appreciate that. That's helpful.I want to raise a point.... You just talked with Mr. Lawrence about the geopolitical dynamic between Canada and China. I forget your exact quote, but it was something along the lines that the Canadian government intervened. Actually, the Canadian government didn't intervene. It was upholding the rule of law and staying away from it.Is it the position of the Grain Farmers of Ontario that the Canadian government should have handled that situation differently?Business Risk Management programsChinaInternational relationsInternational tradeRisk managementMarkusHaerleMarkusHaerle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1450)[English]Right, but you....MarkusHaerleMarkusHaerle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1450)[English]I think it will be interesting to see where the Conservative point comes on, and in relation to their points on 5G and things like that as well, because we kind of see them talking both sides.I want to go to Mr. Brock. I really enjoyed your comments about the policy. We've heard a lot about the 85% reference margin. I believe it to be important. I know that is something that would help farmers. Why is it 85%? You talked about protecting profits versus back in 2013, perhaps versus the reference margin growing now. If we move it up to 85%, are we going to be just as susceptible to perhaps moving it back down in two or three years' time if the prices improve?Agricultural policyBusiness Risk Management programsRisk managementMarkusHaerleMarkBrock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1455)[English]I probably have just about another minute here, but I want to quickly talk about AgriInsurance. It's been mentioned that it's a program that largely works.In your mind, is there some argument that we should be putting even more emphasis on those programs and perhaps taking a step away from the broader farm gate revenue and just going more commodity by commodity, AgriInsurance and really focusing on those programs?AgriAssurance ProgramBusiness Risk Management programsRisk managementMarkBrockMarkBrock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1455)[English]Yes, sorry, Mr. Brock.MarkBrockMarkBrock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1455)[English]Okay. I appreciate that.Chair, do I have any more time?MarkBrockPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1550)[English]Mr. Chair, I just wanted to ask Mr. Ker something. I missed something towards the end of his presentation because it cut out for me. He mentioned some type of publication, and I wonder if he could repeat that. I'd be interested in finding it. PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1620)[English]Again, I'm not really partial one way or the other, but if we're adding a meeting on June 23, could we perhaps just move the meeting on August 5? That would be the trade-off. We can add June 23. That way we're still able to do our work while allowing Mr. Perron's suggestion about trying to support the staff to ensure that they have the time to do their work. Is that possible?Committee businessPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1205)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.One of the things that has happened as a result of COVID that I was sad to hear is that the AFN AGA will not be taking place in Halifax in July. I understand why.As someone who has probably attended all of these AFN AGAs over the past 20 years, I'm wondering how AFN is continuing advocacy and communicating with their chiefs. I know Zoom has been used, but I'm wondering what the strategy is for passing resolutions, for moving things forward and really doing the important work that AFN has done over the years in its advocacy.I'd like to hear from Regional Chief Poitras as well as Grand Chief Fiddler, who I have often seen at the AFN AGAs and shared wings with over the years. I'm wondering how we see this unfolding over the next six months to a year during COVID times. How do the first nations across Canada continue the great work of advocacy and passing resolutions and working with committees moving forward?I'd like to hear from both of you.Assembly of First NationsCOVID-19PandemicBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekMarlenePoitras//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1205)[English]Grand Chief, do you want to comment on how effective that has been for you as a grand chief in your region. Can you give us a sense, from government, what recommendations we could do?I know you had an event that was planned in Ottawa that got cancelled a while ago. I'm just wondering. What are your recommendations and what are your feelings on how we move forward in terms of having that communication among ministers and regions and chiefs in Canada?COVID-19Information disseminationPandemicMarlenePoitrasAlvinFiddler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1210)[English]Grand Chief, I know you were cut off a little bit when you were getting into the importance of UNDRIP, and its importance to your communities.I wanted to give you time to talk about why UNDRIP is important for us to move forward on and what it means to your community.COVID-19Indigenous policyPandemicUnited Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous PeoplesAlvinFiddlerAlvinFiddler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1235)[English]Hello. How is everybody doing today?I'm coming to you from the beautiful unceded territory of the Mi'kmaq in northern Nova Scotia. I'm in Truro. I want to say welcome to the committee. Thank you for all of your important presentations.Hi, Tom. How are you doing? It's been a very long time since we've seen each other, but I'm so proud of your career. You've done so well. Thank you for promoting the creative economy. As you know, I'm actually a member of most of those unions you mentioned and was an active performer for 33 years.I always say that we have an industry that is clean, green, sustainable and constantly renewable. It's based on the biggest natural resource that we have, which is the talent and creativity of our people. That's why I feel the creative economy needs to be invested in right across the country by provinces, municipalities and of course the federal government.A lot of my friends are in the same boat with the CERB. They definitely want to see us extend that CERB. They can't go back to work. Whole seasons have been cancelled for the Stratford Festival and Neptune Theatre here in Halifax. Entire shows' seasons are cancelled and I'm told they will not be going back until next February. It's difficult.As you know, it's difficult to make a steady living and it's difficult when you're out of work, because actors do not get employment insurance. In the States, they do. Also in the States, they make residuals and good residuals, whereas here in Canada actors and writers are offered to sign up and they sign a deal, under which you get paid once and that's it, on and on into eternity. Other people get rich and make billions of dollars with our talent.Can you tell me, Mr. Jackson, if we can extend the CERB—we have already invested $500 million into the creative industries to try to help get through this period—what else can we do to help the creative industries, as we move forward, to be more viable and get more money into the pockets of hard-working artists?COVID-19Cultural industryPandemicBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekTomJackson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1240)[English]That's probably why we get along so well.TomJacksonTomJackson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1240)[English]Thank you very much. Wela'lin.TomJacksonBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1640)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our witnesses for being here. This has been very engaging testimony today.I'll start with a question based on the place where I gained half of the lessons I've learned since I entered politics, and that's at a table in Tim Hortons in the town of Pictou, where a local resident who was interested in the CPP and in giving me political advice said that what the federal government ought to do if it wanted to try to win some votes—not that that's what it's about—is to bump up benefits for seniors. They pointed specifically to the CPP, because it had had a history for quite a few years of having higher earnings than payouts. However, I have some concerns around Canada's demographics and the fact that in my home province, Nova Scotia, we have an aging population as significant as anywhere else, although it's a problem right across the world and certainly within Canada. I'm curious as to whether our witness can shed some light on whether the Canada pension plan is sustainable in its current form, whether in fact the lessons I learned at Tim Hortons are valuable, and whether it's doing so well that we could actually afford an increase in the CPP to help seniors living in retirement.Canada Pension PlanCOVID-19PandemicPensions and pensionersWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMarkMachin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1640)[English]I want to talk about one sector that I think does have potential to give that increased flexibility. One of the disappointments I have about some of the conversations that touch on the green economy is that they often turn into ideological battles about the energy industry. To me, there's a separate conversation to be had, separated from whatever climate ideology a person may have. I personally believe we need to be more and more aggressive in terms of our fight against climate change, but I'm actually curious from a purely economic perspective about what you think about the future in the green economy, which will certainly provide certain returns in terms of our emissions reductions. If we're dealing with it in terms of crass economics, where do you see the future of the CPPIB in terms of its investment in the green economy, in terms of giving that kind of flexibility by capitalizing on a global opportunity in an emerging sector?Canada Pension PlanCanada Pension Plan Investment BoardCOVID-19Green economyInvestmentPandemicMarkMachinMarkMachin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1645)[English] I may revisit this, but I expect I only have time for one quick question. Is that fair, Mr. Chair?MarkMachinWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1645)[English]Thank you. I'll explore that another time. I'll squeeze in one quick one. In response to Ms. Koutrakis, you highlighted some of the short-term concerns around the changing social circumstances in which we find ourselves. Are there longer-term trends that the organization is focusing on as a result of this pandemic, whether it's working from home, production of personal protective equipment, or any other significant social change in the way we live or work that you're targeting to maximize long-term returns for the money you hold for the benefit of Canadians' retirement security? COVID-19InvestmentPandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMarkMachin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser:. (1650)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.MarkMachinWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1905)[English]Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.My question is for Mr. Gallivan, to build on a previous response he gave. It has to do with the recent additional powers to prevent fraud in the Canada emergency response benefit.The calls I was getting early on at the constituency office involved individuals who weren't aware that their EI claim was automatically going to be processed as the CERB claim; individuals who maybe got an unexpected call back to work after they had applied, or people who made a simple mistake and didn't realize they weren't supposed to apply.It would be very helpful for you to confirm unequivocally that those are not the people who will be prosecuted with the threat of imprisonment but, as you said before, it will target individuals who are running criminal organizations at scale. If you could add clarity, I think the public would greatly benefit from that, to ensure those honest mistakes are not going to be punished with the full weight of the law.Allegations of fraud and fraudCanada Emergency Response BenefitCOVID-19PandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeFrankVermaeten//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1905)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have one final question.Mr. Leswick, you suggested that some of these kinds of programs will be responsive not only to this crisis, but to some potential future crisis. I'm curious about one of the things we haven't really dug into. We've had some conversations at this committee about the extension of existing benefits. We've not had many conversations about the preservation of the structures that administer these benefits should they be needed in some future crisis. I'm curious if you have thoughts on what it would take for the federal government to put structures in place that could be used automatically to stabilize the economy in the future, should another crisis of this nature arise.COVID-19Government servicesPandemicSocial benefitsFrankVermaetenNicholasLeswick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1810)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister and our other guests, for being here today.Minister, you were asked a series of questions at the beginning of the panel that I want to give you the opportunity to address. I don't want to use the word “misleading” but sometimes Canadians are watching and might not always know. There has been a lot of narrative around new money, and I asked you this last time that you were at the committee. For example, the $125 million that went to AgriRecovery to support beef farmers and pork producers was not money that would normally have flowed from government in this given year. Is that correct?AgriRecovery ProgramCattle farmingDepartment of Agriculture and Agri-FoodSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeMarie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—Stanstead//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1810)[English]Right. So as I understand it, the money is allocated in the budget but not always spent, and obviously our government is spending this money to ensure that farmers and producers have the support that they need. AgriRecovery ProgramDepartment of Agriculture and Agri-FoodFarming and farmersSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021Marie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—StansteadMarie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—Stanstead//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1810)[English]I want to go to the piece on the price on pollution. Mr. Barlow has raised this quite often in our committee.I asked you this last time, but I will ask again for the benefit of Canadians who are watching our committee proceedings or anyone else. In the relationship and the stakeholder arrangements that you've had with individuals, you've mentioned that you've been working very closely with industry stakeholders. Has that been a predominant theme in terms of their request to you? Has that been the main focus of what they want you to respond to right now?Carbon pricingCarbon taxDepartment of Agriculture and Agri-FoodFarming and farmersSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021Marie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—StansteadMarie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—Stanstead//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1810)[English] It gets raised a lot, and I think that's important to have on the record.I want to move to the local food infrastructure fund. This is of interest certainly in my riding of Kings—Hants in Nova Scotia. Many folks are interested in trying to develop the local food sector. We've had the first round of funding. You mentioned the second round is coming. How best would I encourage someone from my riding who is interested in accessing this fund to go about trying to apply?Department of Agriculture and Agri-FoodFood supplyLocal Food Infrastructure FundSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021Marie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—StansteadMarie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—Stanstead//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1815)[English]You mentioned the online platform. You weren't here obviously at the last committee meeting, Minister, but we had Ted Hutten from my riding who talked about how the demand for local food is significant right now. His online platform has allowed him to pivot his business to ensure he has been able to mitigate some of the challenges we're facing.I know Mr. MacGregor asked about government support to ensure small processors are able to access online programming and build their capacity, so I'm happy to hear that's part of our plan.To remind folks on the committee, I wasn't here prior to 2019, but we're the first government in history that has introduced a food policy to try to address some of these challenges. Is that correct?Department of Agriculture and Agri-FoodFood policySupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021Marie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—StansteadMarie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—Stanstead//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1815)[English]I have about 30 seconds, Minister Bibeau. The piece around the Canadian Dairy Commission is not in the estimates. This is huge in my riding. We have the most supply-managed farms east of Quebec. The $200 million for the Dairy Commission is not in the estimates. I'm not an accountant, maybe that's for good reason, but can you explain how influential that program is and perhaps elaborate on that?Canadian Dairy CommissionDairy farmingDairy industryDepartment of Agriculture and Agri-FoodSupplementary estimates (A) 2020-2021Supply managementMarie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—StansteadMarie-ClaudeBibeauHon.Compton—Stanstead//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1815)[English]Thank you, Minister.PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1505)[English]I would like to hear from the minister.COVID-19PandemicKenMcDonaldAvalonBernadetteJordanHon.South Shore—St. Margarets//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan (Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard): (1505)[English]I would like to make my statement, please. Thanks again for the opportunity to speak to the members of this committee. Today I am again accompanied by many officials, including my deputy minister, Tim Sargent, and Canadian Coast Guard Commissioner Mario Pelletier.I appreciate the invitation to discuss our government's commitment to help Canada's fish and seafood sector get through these unprecedented and very challenging times. As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to evolve, we're working hard to protect Canadians, support the harvesters and businesses and ensure families have what they need. I would like to begin by assuring members that my department remains very much at the forefront of managing Canada's fisheries and protecting the marine environment. As this crisis unfolded, our fishery officers kept up the patrols, surveillance of the North Atlantic right whales continues and, as I indicated in my testimony before you yesterday, the remediation work at Big Bar continues to move without stopping.Our officials have worked overtime to make sure that stakeholders across the country were being heard. We continue to navigate this crisis together, listening to advice from those who work in the fishery about when to open the various fishing seasons and how to adjust our ways of working to make sure that we continue to support commercial and recreational fishing. DFO officials and harbour authority volunteers have worked hard with provincial and territorial counterparts and other partners to ensure the health and safety of essential workers, fish harvesters and, indeed, all Canadians who use our harbours. The Coast Guard continues its essential operations and remains hard at work every day, delivering much-needed search and rescue, ice-breaking, maritime security and environmental response.[Translation]Today I want to reassure committee members that we continue to provide essential services in our fisheries sector so that those working in our fisheries can expect to receive the support they need to safely continue feeding Canadians.[English] Back in January, we started to see the kind of impact COVID-19 was having on the global economy, particularly in the seafood sector, with the decline of overseas export markets. Since then, my officials and I have been talking to and working with harvesters, aquaculture producers, processors, indigenous partners, and the provinces and territories about some of the unique pressures that the sector has been facing.As spring approached, we started to plan amidst an uncertain global market. We knew that in order to stabilize the industry as a whole, we would need to develop programs that would provide financial support to both harvesters and processors.As you well know, the window of harvesting certain stocks is limited, so products needed to be stored longer and new markets needed to be found.With export markets declining and domestic food supply becoming more important than ever, the industry will need to respond more to Canadian domestic consumption. With the closure of restaurants across the country, Canadians are instead looking to purchase seafood at the store and from local harvesters.As you know, our government has delivered economic measures to help individual Canadians and businesses get through the pandemic, through the Canada emergency response benefit, the Canada emergency wage subsidy, the Canada emergency business account and a number of other tax credit measures.We have also been working around the clock to support the Canadian fish and seafood industry adapt to a new reality, as it is the backbone of many of our coastal communities.This has ultimately led to a significant $500-million investment to support the hard-working women and men in our fisheries. To deliver these funds, we've created the fish harvester benefit, the fish harvester grant and the Canadian seafood stabilization fund.The fish harvester benefit will provide self-employed commercial harvesters and sharesperson crew members who cannot access the Canadian wage subsidy with up to $847.00 a week. This includes those in inshore and freshwater fisheries and fishing under indigenous commercial communal licences.The fish harvester grant will provide a non-repayable grant of up to $10,000 to self-employed commercial harvesters who cannot access the Canada emergency business account. Along with the benefit, these funds can be used to cover the costs of running a fishing business, including increasing costs due to health and safety requirements. We're working to ensure that harvesters can receive these supports this summer.The $62.5-million Canadian seafood stabilization fund is invested directly into the marine processing sector to help tackle a number of challenges and to help plants adapt to market changes and the new ways of working. Processors on the Atlantic and Pacific coasts can tap into the funds to increase their storage capacity, allowing them to buy more from harvesters and aquaculture operators. The funding can also be used to help with rebranding and marketing efforts, to make changes to manufacturing and automated technologies and to offset the cost of implementing health and safety measures.While these new programs take into account the unique operational structures of the industry, we know that this season will definitely be a challenge. That's why we're proposing changes to the fish harvester employment insurance system, which will allow harvesters and sharespeople to file EI claims based on previous seasons' earnings. The industry went into this pandemic strong, but we know this year is going to be like unlike anything we've ever seen before. Tens of thousands of Canadians were counting on this fishing season for employment, revenue and food. By investing over half a billion dollars in the seafood sector, our goal is not only to ensure that workers get the financial support they need right now, but that the industry as a whole is placed in a strong position for recovery.(1510)As we continue to move forward in the face of so much global uncertainty, I am confident that we will continue to serve Canadians under these very difficult circumstances. I am now happy to take your questions.Canadian Coast GuardCanadian Seafood Stabilization FundCoast guard servicesCOVID-19Employment insuranceFish and seafoodFish Harvester BenefitFish Harvester GrantFisheries and fishersPandemicJaimeBattisteSydney—VictoriaKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1510)[English] With regard to making sure safety protocols were put in place for processors, as you know, this is provincial jurisdiction. However, having said that, I met regularly with my provincial counterparts on the east and the west coasts to talk to them about measures, and we had regular weekly meetings to discuss what needed to be done in processing facilities.We recognized that the CFIA had a role to play, as did the provincial government. We were there for them to make sure that the processing facilities were able to put protocols in place. We actually had to delay some seasons to make sure they could meet the protocols that were required.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicWorkplace health and safetyMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1510)[English]I very strongly disagree with that statement. Since the very beginning, we have been working with processors and harvesters to make sure they have what they need to be safe on the water and have what they need to have a successful season.We worked with processors to develop the programs they needed through the Canadian seafood stabilization fund, and we worked with harvesters and a number of different organizations on the fish harvester benefit and the fish harvester grant.We're continuing to work with stakeholders across the industry to make sure we're addressing the needs of the seafood sector this year.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicWorkplace health and safetyMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1515)[English]I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but I'm not getting interpretation. MarilèneGillManicouaganKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1515)[English]We have worked very hard to make sure that we have the benefits in place that harvesters require. For the fish harvester benefit, we recognized right from the start that many fishing enterprises did not qualify for the measures we had already put in place. There was a gap, and that is why we introduced the fish harvester benefit and the fish harvester grant. We are now working to get those programs out the door, recognizing the urgency of this, because the seasons are ending in some areas. I think harvesters have the security of knowing that those benefits are coming.COVID-19Fish Harvester BenefitFish Harvester GrantFisheries and fishersPandemicMarilèneGillManicouaganMarilèneGillManicouagan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1515)[English]The challenge with including the fish and seafood sectors in the programs that were already existing was that they did not qualify, based on the way their systems are set up. Based on the way their enterprises were set up as businesses, they did not include family members, although now they do. They are seasonal, so they make all of their money in a very short period of time. They do not have the same ability to look back on previous months, because their season hasn't even opened. There were specific challenges for owner-operators as well.We wanted to make sure that we dealt directly with the industry and met its needs directly, because it was falling through the cracks. That is exactly what we did.We are now working diligently with ESDC to make sure these programs are being put in place as quickly as possible. We know that the industry requires them. Harvesters are having a very difficult year this year, and we know there are significant challenges in export markets, but we know the measures we are putting in place are going to benefit the entire industry, because they will continue to allow fish harvesters to survive this season.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsMarilèneGillManicouaganKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1520)[English]Thank you, Mr. Cormier. Also, thank you for all of the work you've done in your riding to make sure your harvesters' and processors' voices are heard.We have put three specific programs in place: the fish harvester benefit, the fish harvester grant and the Canadian seafood stabilization fund.The fish harvester benefit is going to provide up to $847 per week for owner-operators as well as share crew. Recognizing that they did not qualify for the wage subsidy and they treat their crews differently with regard to a share as opposed to a wage, we wanted to make sure that these people were captured. The grant is for up to $10,000. That is a non-repayable amount of money that can be given to harvesters to help with their overhead costs this year for things like bait, insurance and licence fees. These are all things that we know have costs. They are not not going to have quite as lucrative a season this year, based on what we're seeing with our export markets.Finally, there is the seafood stabilization fund. That was a $62.5-million fund that we put in place for processors to put safety protocols in place. Of course, it's backdated to March, so for anything that they have done they will be able to qualify. It's to put safety measures in place, as well as retool their facilities and do value added to make sure they have the capacity to store. Right now, as you know, we're primarily a fresh market exporter. Having an ability to have fridges and freezers was something we heard a lot about, and we wanted to make sure that we were there for them.These measures are going to be put through the regional development agencies, but I will say that this would not have been possible without all the input we got from so many great people across the industry, such as people in your riding, for example, and the Maritime Fishermen's Union, the crabbers associations, the harvesters and the processors. We've worked very diligently with all of them to make sure we have the measures in place that they require to get through this very difficult season.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsSergeCormierAcadie—BathurstSergeCormierAcadie—Bathurst//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1520)[English]This is something that I have heard from a number of people and from new entrants into the fishing sector. We know that this is an expensive venture to get into. Right now, they do not qualify for the fish harvester benefit or the fish harvester grant, based on the fact that it's based on previous seasons' earnings specifically. As the Prime Minister has said many times, nobody will be left behind. We'll continue to look at ways that we can support all people right across the country.Canada Emergency Wage SubsidyCOVID-19Fisheries and fishersIncome and wagesPandemicSergeCormierAcadie—BathurstSergeCormierAcadie—Bathurst//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1525)[English] We know that pretty much everybody in the fish and seafood sector is having a difficult season this year, and the shrimpers are no exception. There have been some challenges there for them with coming to an agreement on a price with processors, as well as, of course, a glut on the market left over from last year.There are a number of programs that the shrimp industry already does qualify for. They will qualify for the fish harvester benefit or the wage subsidy, depending on how their business is structured. They will qualify for the CEBA or for the fish harvesters grant—once again, depending on how their business is structured.One of the things I also wanted to mention is that we're going to be instituting changes to fishers EI, and that's going to be something that's going to help carry a number of harvesters through the next year until we get through COVID-19. As most of you would know, fishers EI is structured differently from regular EI. It's based on your catch, as opposed to the amount of hours you work. What we have said—COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicShrimpSocial benefitsSergeCormierAcadie—BathurstKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1525)[English]We structured the fish harvester benefit and the fish harvester grant because we recognize that many fishing enterprises are family businesses and we wanted to make sure that they were captured within those grants, whereas they would not have been under the wage subsidy or the business account. We wanted to make sure because many fishing vessels are generational. We wanted to make sure they were captured, so they are, within the harvester benefit and the harvester grant.On the other thing you mentioned with regard to the seasons, what's really important here, as I started to mention to Mr. Cormier, is that we will be structuring EI so that fishers EI benefits will be based on previous seasons, not on this year's catch. We want to make sure that we're looking after people. I know that people were very concerned because of the shorter seasons in some cases and because of the delay in seasons in some cases, and because of the poor markets. The EI benefit is going to help a lot of people make sure that they're covered for the coming year.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsMarilèneGillManicouaganMarilèneGillManicouagan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1525)[English]This is a conversation that we continue to have right across the country, because although it affects processors and seasonal workers in the fish and seafood sector, it's affecting seasonal workers right across in the country, in the tourism sector, in the agriculture sector.I have had many conversations with my counterpart at ESDC, Minister Qualtrough. We are working to address the gaps we're seeing for seasonal workers and making sure that the ones who do not have access to EI have some coverage.We'll continue to work on that program with her. I know that seasonal workers are very concerned about making sure they have enough hours to qualify to make sure they have an EI cheque at the end of the season.COVID-19Employment insuranceFisheries and fishersPandemicMarilèneGillManicouaganMarilèneGillManicouagan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1530)[English]We're continuing to work to make sure we're addressing the gaps we're seeing in the system. We have already made sure that the emergency response benefit is available now to seasonal workers, where it wasn't initially. We're continuing to assess programs as we go forward to make sure that anyone falling through the cracks is covered.We will continue to work with our stakeholder groups and with industry, making sure we're hearing from a number of different people to address their concerns and that people are looked after in this very, very difficult time.COVID-19Employment insuranceFisheries and fishersPandemicPart-time workersMarilèneGillManicouaganMarilèneGillManicouagan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1530)[English]We initially suspended the at-sea observer program for 45 days, until people were able to get safety protocols in place.This program is extremely important. We make our decisions based on science, and that science is critical. We absolutely have to collect it. It's part of a number of agreements that we have. We have to have the at-sea observer program.We are working with communities. We are trying to be flexible to make sure that safety measures are in place, both for the harvesters and the observers. They both have to be happy with the situation before they will get on vessels.However, we definitely need to have this program in place in order to maintain the science that drives our decision-making process.At-Sea Observer ProgramCOVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicMarilèneGillManicouaganKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1530)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns.We recognized right from the start that this was going to be a critical piece for harvesters: making sure they have what they need. We are working diligently around the clock to get this out as quickly as possible, recognizing how important it is to harvesters.It is a brand new program, so it has to be built from the ground up. As you can imagine, it's not just a matter of writing a cheque to everybody.We're continuing to work with ESDC and Finance to make sure we can get this out as quickly as we can.COVID-19Fish Harvester BenefitFish Harvester GrantFisheries and fishersPandemicGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1530)[English]As I said to Mr. Cormier earlier, I have heard that concern from a number of new entrants. There are a number of programs available to people who need help. We are continuing to look at how we can address issues. The Prime Minister has said on many occasions that nobody is going to be left behind. Right now, they do not qualify for the fish harvester benefit or grant because they are based on previous seasons' earnings. We will continue to look at ways that they can be supported.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1535)[English]Mr. Johns, we've had this discussion before. It's important to recognize that the DFO does have a suite of programs, but this does not fall into them. We have had a conversation with regard to being involved with Environment and Climate Change Canada on this.We are looking at ways to support it, but the DFO does not have the ability to buy a piece of land. We've had a conversation about this. This is something that we can continue to look at, but at this point there are no programs available for this specific project.COVID-19Habitat conservationPandemicSalmonGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1535)[English]We continue to work with a number of organizations through a variety of means to make sure that we're addressing the concerns they have with regard to habitat restoration of the wild Pacific salmon stock.I will take this on to see if there is anything we can do. I'll turn to my deputy to see if there's anything he can add here.COVID-19Habitat conservationPandemicSalmonUser feesGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniMarilèneGillManicouagan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1540)[English]Can we go back? I had asked my deputy to comment on the stamp.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1540)[English]No, they are not. The seafood stabilization fund is about to be rolled out, probably within the next few days to a couple of weeks. The fish harvester benefit and the fish harvester grant, as I said, involve actually building a whole new program, and that's going to take a little bit of time. However, recognizing that, we have been working extremely hard to get it out the door as quickly as possible. We're working with ESDC.I want to give a big shout-out to our public servants. These are extremely trying times, and they have been working around the clock to make sure we get this benefit out as quickly as possible because they know how important it is to our harvesters.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsRichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacRichardBragdonTobique—Mactaquac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1540)[English]With regard to the EI changes, those are actually being worked on as well right now. They will be coming as soon as we have them available. We recognize that people need to know these things. That's why we're working as hard as we can to get that done as quickly as we can.COVID-19Employment insuranceFisheries and fishersPandemicRichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacRichardBragdonTobique—Mactaquac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1540)[English]No, they will not.Actually, I know the fish harvester benefit and the fish harvester grant did not require legislation. I am not 100% sure on the EI changes. I don't know if the deputy has any information that he may be able to share. I'm not sure whether EI requires a legislative change or not.COVID-19Employment insuranceFisheries and fishersPandemicRichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1540)[English]The EI changes are actually going to be based on the previous season's earnings, so what they would have received up until now will be basically the same again. They will be able to qualify based on previous seasons instead of this year. That's actually a really good thing. We know that last season was a very good season for most harvesters.With regard to British Columbia, where last season was not great, we're making sure they can look at seasons previous to that so they're better able to qualify for the EI benefits and get the biggest amount they can for it.COVID-19Employment insuranceFisheries and fishersPandemicRichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacRichardBragdonTobique—Mactaquac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1545)[English] What we did from the start was we looked at what was necessary for the fish and seafood sector. We started out with the seafood stabilization fund. Once the wage subsidy and the business account were announced and we had a chance to look at what the qualifications were, and recognizing that harvesters' businesses were set up differently, we moved very quickly to make sure they were not lost in a gap. We saw a whole sector that was going to be impacted, and we worked really hard and very quickly to make sure that we addressed the concerns we heard from harvesters with regard to that. This is all because their enterprises are set up very differently than most businesses are. People who live in fishing communities recognize that. People in the fish and seafood sector are the only ones who have a totally different program based on the fact that they were not able to qualify for the other benefits.Canada Emergency Business AccountCanada Emergency Wage SubsidyCOVID-19Fisheries and fishersIncome and wagesLoansPandemicRichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacRichardBragdonTobique—Mactaquac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1545)[English]Thank you, Minister, for joining us today and for all of your advocacy for our fishermen and fisherwomen.Our Prime Minister announced that the government is introducing the fish harvester benefit, as our fish harvesters have unique needs. It's an industry of seasons and catches and good years and bad years, but this year it's been challenging, to say the least. In my riding, one of the biggest issues facing our fishermen and harvesters is the lack of demand, and prices are really low. It's changed the dynamic of the local economy. It has been said that there may need to be a pivot to increased processing and a need for greater storage for longer periods of time. Can you give us an indication of what our government is doing to ensure we have the ability to store more of our catch?Cold storage facilitiesCOVID-19Fish and seafoodFisheries and fishersPandemicKenMcDonaldAvalonBernadetteJordanHon.South Shore—St. Margarets//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1545)[English]Thank you, Mr. Battiste.I will say that this was one of the first things we heard about when we saw the export markets collapsing back in January or February. We knew there could be a problem, because we generally have a fresh market product. The fish and seafood sector is live lobster, and it's mussels and oysters. Making sure that the fish is fresh is what has been really important to our exports. Recognizing that, we put into place the Canadian seafood stabilization fund, at $62.5 million. That's going to give processors the ability to increase capacity and to put in freezers and fridges so that they have storage for longer periods of time. This is going to also help the harvesters, of course, because now that things don't have to move as quickly, they're able to continue to sell their product.COVID-19Fish and seafoodFisheries and fishersPandemicJaimeBattisteSydney—VictoriaJaimeBattisteSydney—Victoria//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1545)[English]Thank you for that, Minister.Can you give me a sense of what has been our total new investment in dollars that our government has put forward to address the challenges of COVID-19?COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsBernadetteJordanHon.South Shore—St. MargaretsBernadetteJordanHon.South Shore—St. Margarets//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1545)[English]With regard to just the fish harvester benefit, the fish harvester grant and the seafood stabilization fund, it's over half a billion dollars. That is not including what we will have to do to make the changes to EI, the people who are now collecting CERB.... That's just the fish and seafood sector. I know that this is the largest infusion of cash into the sector since the cod moratorium.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsJaimeBattisteSydney—VictoriaJaimeBattisteSydney—Victoria//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1545)[English]In many cases in the Mi'kmaq communities in my riding, the community holds a communal licence rather than the more commercial licence. Are there any differences in eligibility for the fish harvester benefit between a Mi'kmaq communal licence-holder versus a commercial licence-holder? I just want to make sure that the Mi'kmaq harvesters are also included in this. Can you answer that?COVID-19Fish Harvester BenefitFisheries licencesIndigenous peoplesPandemicBernadetteJordanHon.South Shore—St. MargaretsBernadetteJordanHon.South Shore—St. Margarets//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1545)[English]They are absolutely included. It was something that we wanted to make sure of, that there were no gaps when it came to indigenous communities. I met recently with Chief Perry Bellegarde, as well as the AFN, to explain this to them. There was a lot of concern that the indigenous communities felt that they would maybe be left out. Absolutely not—they very much qualify for these supports.COVID-19Fish Harvester BenefitFisheries licencesIndigenous peoplesPandemicJaimeBattisteSydney—VictoriaJaimeBattisteSydney—Victoria//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1550)[English]Has the department done any internal estimates on how many individuals they expect will apply for the fish harvester benefit? To me, that would be an important data point as we assess the overall impact of COVID-19 on the fishing industry. I'd be interested in hearing what other data points DFO is monitoring as they assess the overall impact of COVID-19.COVID-19Fish Harvester BenefitFisheries and fishersPandemicBernadetteJordanHon.South Shore—St. MargaretsBernadetteJordanHon.South Shore—St. Margarets//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1550)[English]I will say that anyone who holds an independent owner-operator licence is eligible for the benefit, but perhaps I could turn to Deputy Sargent and see if he has any other data he can share with us.COVID-19Fish Harvester BenefitFisheries and fishersPandemicJaimeBattisteSydney—VictoriaTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1550)[English] You can give me a written response. I know time is limited. Ken, you can turn to the next speaker.TimothySargentKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1550)[English]We recognize a number of challenges facing the sport fishery this year, everything from low salmon returns to COVID and how it has impacted the communities that support the sport fishery. We have made a number of benefits available to those businesses specifically.The chinook management decisions have not been made yet. We are working on them as we speak. They will be out in the near future.Chinook salmonCOVID-19Fisheries licencesHunting and sport fishingPandemicEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1550)[English]I'm checking my notes. We did put interim fisheries management measures in place for the chinook fishery on April 1 to allow time for a technical review of the 2019 measures, to make sure what we had done in 2019 and how it was going to impact. We're also looking at consulting with a variety of groups. The decisions are going to be based on what we hear from our evaluations. They will be coming, as I've said, very soon.Chinook salmonCOVID-19Fisheries licencesHunting and sport fishingPandemicEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1550)[English]They will be coming as soon as we have all the information we need to make that decision.Chinook salmonCOVID-19Fisheries licencesHunting and sport fishingPandemicEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1555)[English]Mr. Fast, I have been listening to the industry since I was first appointed to this ministry. I am not opposed to a hatchery fishery. However, a number of challenges have to be addressed first. As I said yesterday, there are concerns. There's a concern around data collection. There's a concern around consultations with first nations. There's a concern around the genetics and releasing of hatchery fish and how it will impact the wild pacific salmon stock.These are all things we have to do. We have started pilot programs on a marked fishery. We will continue to do the work that is needed to be done. It's not a silver bullet. It's not going to solve all the problems of the wild pacific salmon. We're making sure we're taking these measures very seriously. I want to thank the sport fishery association for the great work they do. We will continue to work with them to find solutions as we go forward. A lot of questions need to be answered before that fishery can take place.AquacultureChinook salmonCOVID-19Hunting and sport fishingPandemicEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1555)[English]Thank you, Mr. Morrissey, and you are correct. I come from a small rural coastal community. It's something that has driven my passion for this industry from day one. I grew up in it.With regard to small craft harbours specifically, we know that these are the economic drivers of our rural coastal communities. They are a necessary part of who we are and what we do. The fishery relies on them. They're our highways. As a government, we have invested significantly in small craft harbours. We will continue to look at the best ways going forward to address the long-term needs.There had not been an increase in small craft harbour funding for over 20 years until we formed the government, and in that time, of course, small craft harbours continued to deteriorate.With regard to fisheries officers, because of the work that we as a government have done on the Fisheries Act, we are going to be able to increase the important role that fisheries officers play. We've increased the staff at DFO by 300 for the science. This is all funding that has come because of our government. We will not leave our fishing communities behind. We know how important they are to our way of life. Previous governments have done that, but we will not do that.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicPorts and harboursRobertMorrisseyEgmontRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1600)[English]The health and safety of fisheries officers has been a priority in the industry. We've continued to make sure that they are able to work in the fields, on the water, and wherever they're needed during this crisis. The standard operating procedures have been put in place for all types of operations such as vessel patrols and air patrols. We're making sure that the fisheries officers have what they need in terms of protection and protocols in place, and we'll continue to do that as well with small craft harbours.I want to thank the harbour authorities who have also put protocols in place to make sure that the people who are working on the wharves are the people who need to be there. We'll continue to monitor those situations and make sure that the employees of DFO have what they need to stay protected and to continue to do the extremely vital work that they've always done.COVID-19Fishery officersPandemicRobertMorrisseyEgmontRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1600)[English] We continue to make all our decisions based on science. The previous Conservative government cut the science out of DFO. We've rehired almost 300 scientists to make sure we have that information available to us. Fisheries management decisions have to be made on the best science available to us, and we're going to continue to do that.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicScientific research and scientistsRobertMorrisseyEgmontKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1600)[English]Thank you, Madam Gill.We have been working very hard with harvesters as well as with processors to make sure they have had the necessary time to put the health and safety protocols in place. It has been very difficult. We worked with the province, and we made sure we worked with the stakeholders. We know there are communities that were a bit more vulnerable. We were very flexible in season opening dates so they could get the protocols they needed to have in place.I met regularly with Minister Lamontagne from Quebec with regard to what Quebec was doing in putting those protocols in place. Of course, the province is responsible for the processing facilities and making sure they have what they need, but Quebec was very good at setting a standard for having good safety protocols in their facilities.We continue to meet with him every week to find out what was necessary, and we continue to work with CFIA as well.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersIndigenous peoplesPandemicMarilèneGillManicouaganKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1605)[English] First of all, Mr. Johns, I need to clarify that there isn't money left in there. The money is earmarked for programs that were committed to. The money is there, but it has not been spent because the programs have not rolled out yet. There is no pot of money left over.I will say that we are continuing to work with our coastal communities, through B.C. SRIF, through the coastal restoration fund, to put programs in place, as well as the programs I have already talked about today with regard to the fish harvester benefit and the fish harvester grant. Deputy Minister Sargent, I'm not sure whether you have anything to add. COVID-19Fisheries and fishersIndigenous peoplesPandemicGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1605)[English]Relief on licensing was something that we heard about a great deal. We went with the fish harvester grant that could be used for a number of different things, and that money can be used for licensing fees.COVID-19Fisheries licencesPandemicGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1605)[English]I'm going to turn that question over to my deputy, please.Chrisd'EntremontWest NovaTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1610)[English]Thanks, Chris—sorry, Mr. d'Entremont. I've known you for a long time. Chrisd'EntremontWest NovaChrisd'EntremontWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1610)[English]I would say that they reach out to ACOA directly. As we've said, these programs are being developed and delivered through the regional development agencies because they work with these organizations all the time and they know them. They may be able to help them very quickly.Canadian Seafood Stabilization FundCold storage facilitiesCOVID-19Fish and seafoodPandemicChrisd'EntremontWest NovaChrisd'EntremontWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1610)[English]Deputy, do you have an answer to that question?Chrisd'EntremontWest NovaTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1610)[English]The funding, of course, is to build capacity in places. I'm not sure.... Those are questions that ACOA could probably answer. Deputy, I don't know if there is anything else you can add. Canadian Seafood Stabilization FundCold storage facilitiesCOVID-19Fish and seafoodPandemicChrisd'EntremontWest NovaTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1610)[English]Mr. d'Entremont, with regard to that, the whole point of the programs we've put in place is to get people through this very difficult time. There are unprecedented challenges within this sector. We're seeing fishers who have not seen this kind of market in years and years, as you know, as someone who comes from an area that relies heavily on this sector. We want to make sure that what we're putting in place is able to get us through this very difficult time so that the industry not only can come back after COVID-19 but can come back strong.Canadian Seafood Stabilization FundCold storage facilitiesCOVID-19Fish and seafoodPandemicChrisd'EntremontWest NovaChrisd'EntremontWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1610)[English]We have discussed the waiving of licence fees. What we came up with was the fish harvester grant, which they can use for a multitude of reasons. One of them would be to use the $10,000 to pay their licence fees.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersFisheries licencesLobstersPandemicChrisd'EntremontWest NovaKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1610)[English]They would not have impacted the fish harvester benefit or the fish harvester grant, but it is unfortunate, because one of the things we've heard a great deal about is that seasonal industries need support, and this bill would have given it to them. It is unfortunate that the Conservatives have stopped us from making sure that seasonal workers are getting the support they need through the wage subsidy.C-17, An Act respecting additional COVID-19 measuresCOVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1615)[English]The fish harvester benefit and the fish harvester grant were not part of this legislation. That did not require legislation on its own, so they will still go ahead. It is unfortunate, though, because many seasonal workers will be caught up in this legislation not going forward, and that will include people who did not qualify for the fish harvester benefit or the fish harvester grant.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1615)[English]I think there are a number of things there, Mr. Hardie.First of all, we have seen the collapse of the export market since early in January. The fish and seafood sector was one of the first sectors impacted by COVID-19. We have been working to try to develop new ways of asking people to support their local industry and to make sure that people eat Canadian seafood. We Canadians don't eat enough seafood. I think everyone should be promoting that as much as possible to support our local industry. We continue to explore where markets could be developed, but of course, as you know, that's a different department.We are looking to make sure that we have the capacity in the processing facilities to store and hold product longer. We are looking at value added. That's another big thing that's necessary. One of the industries in B.C., for example, is the oyster industry. We've spoken to one oyster producer who wants to go from a fresh product to a smoked product, because he knows that will have a longer shelf life and he'll have more of an ability to sell domestically if he does.Those are the kinds of innovative ideas that we're supporting and looking for to make sure we can get through this very difficult time.COVID-19Fish and seafoodPandemicTradeKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1615)[English]What we've done this year is this: With the availability of the fish harvester benefit and the fish harvester grant, we have given enterprises the ability to make a business decision based on the fact that they will still have some income. Whether they choose not to fish, whether they choose to fish less or whether they continue to fish now, at least they know they will have some income.With regard to markets, we are seeing a bit of an increase in some of the export markets. The Asian markets are starting to open up. Some of the restaurants in the U.S. are starting to open up.I think one of the things we also have to do is work together with the provinces and territories through the Canadian fish and seafood opportunities fund as a way of marketing fresh seafood within Canada.Cold storage facilitiesCOVID-19Fish and seafoodPandemicKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1620)[English]Actually, I would disagree with that statement, Mr. Bragdon. We listened very diligently. We made the announcement as quickly as possible, and now we're working to get those measures out the door.This is building a brand new program. It's not something that you can turn around on overnight. We are working with ESDC, which is responsible for the delivery of the program, to make sure that we have everything that is needed in place.Harvesters can rest assured that the money is there and that it's coming. Yes, they need it, and we are working to make sure that they get it as quickly as possible.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsRichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacRichardBragdonTobique—Mactaquac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1620)[English]Yes. That is what I was just talking to Mr. Hardie about. I've been working with my provincial counterparts on the east coast, as well as on the west coast, talking about ways that we can work together to market fresh seafood within Canada and to make sure that people recognize that it is an extremely vital part of our food chain and that it is an excellent source of protein. As I said, we're working together with our provincial counterparts to do some marketing.With regard to the international side, we are also looking at ways that we can continue to build on our export markets, knowing that right now they are not very good, but at some point they have to come back, and we'll continue to look at ways that we can market our seafood overseas as well.COVID-19Fish and seafoodPandemicTradeRichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacRichardBragdonTobique—Mactaquac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1620)[English] Actually, Mr. Bragdon, it was not broken. We took a number of things into consideration when it came to the delays. With regard to the gulf specifically, the four areas in the gulf, we had various requests for opening dates. The one request that was consistent though was that they all open on the same day.Recognizing that processors were not ready because of health protocols that had to be put in place, the delay had to remain until May 15, because that was when the processors would be ready and when the majority of the harvesters wanted to go. The harvesters in those areas all said that no matter what the date was, they had to go on the same date. It was a decision made in consultation with harvesters, the industry, stakeholders, processors and buyers. These are all things that are taken into consideration when we make these decisions.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicRichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Cormier.The harvesters in your area have faced a number of challenges this year with regard to not only COVID-19 but also weather delays, ice and, of course, now the whales returning to the area.One of the things we have done as a government and as a department over the past number of years is to address the whale measures. Every season we look at what works, what doesn't and how we can make it better. We know we need to protect the whales for a number of reasons, not only because they are an endangered species but also because doing that is extremely important for us in our agreements with the United States for export markets. We'll continue to do that.We want to work with the industry. Its members were the ones who worked so hard with us to come up with the measures we put in place this year to protect the whales. We'll continue to do that. It's extremely important that we continue to have those conversations.I understand there are challenges this year. I also understand they have caught close to 80% of their quota, so it is good, but I know it's challenging with the closures because of the whales.Black right whalesCOVID-19Endangered speciesFisheries policyPandemicSergeCormierAcadie—BathurstSergeCormierAcadie—Bathurst//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1625)[English] Sure, and I would like to make a correction. The EI for fish harvesters will be based on previous seasons, not necessarily the previous year. That is going to be beneficial to the people on the west coast, who did not have a great season last year. We want to make sure they're well covered. The other thing is with regard to seasonal workers. As I said earlier, this is a much bigger conversation that we're having with ESDC. We need to make sure seasonal workers are covered as well, and that goes for the agriculture sector, the hospitality industry and, of course, it impacts the fish and seafood sector. I have been in conversation with Minister Qualtrough. I know she is working very hard to address these challenges because, as I said, no one will be left behind.COVID-19Employment insuranceFisheries and fishersPandemicSergeCormierAcadie—BathurstSergeCormierAcadie—Bathurst//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1630)[English]Thank you, Madame Gill.We have worked diligently with harvesters, processors and communities, recognizing they're the people on the ground who know what they need. I'm a little confused, though, because you said that someone requested a delay and did not get it. Most of the delays that were requested were granted, so I would like to follow up with you on that one, unless that delay was a second delay. I don't know if Deputy Sargent would know of something specific there. Madame Gill, could you clarify that?COVID-19Fisheries and fishersInformation disseminationPandemicMarilèneGillManicouaganMarilèneGillManicouagan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1630)[English]I'm sorry. I'm not familiar with that specific problem. I will look into it, find out and get back to you.We work very hard to make sure that the communications we put out are correct, that the communities are listened to, that the harvesters are well consulted on what they want. We try to do everything we can to work with industry to make sure their needs are addressed.Deputy Sargent, I don't know if you have anything you want to add or if it's something we can follow up on.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersInformation disseminationPandemicMarilèneGillManicouaganTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1630)[English]Can I turn that one over to the deputy, please?GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Johns. As I said yesterday, I'm committed to working with the provinces and with indigenous communities to move forward responsibly to transition from open net-pen farming in coastal British Columbia. A change like this requires co-operation. It requires consultation. Those are all things that we are working to do right now. It's not something that's just going to happen overnight, but we are working—COVID-19Open-pen aquaculturePandemicSockeye salmonGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1635)[English]I'm sorry, but recreational fishers would not qualify for EI. EI is for commercial enterprises, not recreational. However, the people who support the industry—the guides, for example, and the people who work within the industry—are eligible for things like the CERB. They are all eligible for the business account.COVID-19Hunting and sport fishingPandemicSocial benefitsKenMcDonaldAvalonGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arnold. As I have said on a number of occasions today, this is a brand new program. It's something that has to be built from the ground up. We are working with ESDC, which is responsible for the program, to make sure that it's rolled out as quickly as possible. We are doing everything we have to do to make sure it gets rolled out quickly. The thing that harvesters can be assured of is that the money is coming. It is there. It's almost half a billion dollars—Canadian Seafood Stabilization FundCOVID-19Fish Harvester GrantFisheries and fishersPandemicMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Arnold. That is something we're very much apprised of. It's something we are monitoring. We will make sure that we're taking everything that is.... A company has to be 51% Canadian-owned. We work with people at ISED to make sure that anything that is transferred is actually within the regulations.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersForeign companiesPandemicMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1640)[English] As I have said, I am not averse to a mark-selective fishery. I think there is a great opportunity there. However, there are a number of concerns that we have with regard to this, which we want to make sure we address before that becomes a reality.We are doing some pilot projects now in specific areas with hatchery fish. There are concerns within first nations communities. There are concerns within environmental groups about the impacts that hatchery fish would have on wild Pacific salmon stocks. These are all things that have to be taken into consideration. It's not as cut and dry as you seem to think, and it's also not a silver bullet, with all of the challenges the wild Pacific salmon are facing right now.AquacultureCOVID-19Hunting and sport fishingPandemicMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1640)[English]As I said earlier, I'm not sure that it does require legislation. We will definitely look into that and follow up.COVID-19Employment insuranceFisheries and fishersPandemicMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1640)[English]Thank you, Mr. Hardie. That's a really important question. I will say that processors have been working very diligently to put measures in place to make sure that their workers are protected. Some of them have been very innovative in some of the things they've been doing. They've been bringing in trailers so that people can socially distance at break times. They're putting in Plexiglas between workers. These things are all going to be ongoing.Of course, we don't know how long COVID-19 challenges will last until we have a vaccine. These are all measures that are being put in place now, but they are definitely going to be beneficial to the processing sector for the long run.COVID-19Fish processing industryPandemicWorkplace health and safetyKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1640)[English]With regard to the provinces, I was meeting weekly with my provincial counterparts on the east coast for about the first three months. It's recently moved to biweekly. We've had a lot of good discussions about the processing sector—of course the province is responsible for that sector—and making sure they have the protocols in place.They have been very diligently working within the industry themselves. They recognize the importance of the fish and seafood sector to our coastal communities, so they want to make sure they're doing everything they can to support them.With regard to cases, I'm going to turn it over to the deputy here. I'm not sure if there have been any reported cases of COVID. I believe there was one in Quebec, but I might be wrong on that.COVID-19Fish processing industryPandemicWorkplace health and safetyKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1640)[English]With regard to the freshwater inland fisheries, first of all the Canadian seafood stabilization fund is available to the Prairies as well, for inland processors. The fish harvester benefit is available to all harvesters in the country who have a valid licence, so also in Ontario. Of course, in Ontario, processors have the ability to access the RDAs, which will have programs similar to the seafood stabilization fund.We're making sure we're addressing all of the concerns we're hearing about right across the country.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersFresh waterPandemicKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1645)[English]I will say that the conversations I've had with the provincial ministers have been very beneficial. They are people I've done a lot of work with to come up with the benefits. They've been very supportive of the harvester benefits, as well as the grant and the EI changes. They recognize how important that is. I will also say, though, that it's critical that we get this out the door as quickly as possible. We know that the harvesters are in need of this money.With regard to the provinces, one thing that was a bit of a challenge with New Brunswick was that they were not allowing temporary workers in when our processing facilities desperately needed them. That also set us back a bit. We know they made those decisions based on what they needed, but our processors desperately needed temporary foreign workers, and they were not able to get them at the very start of the pandemic.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersNew BrunswickPandemicSergeCormierAcadie—BathurstKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1645)[English]I'm not sure about who has reached out specifically with regard to that.We've put in place a number of suggestions to the provinces on how to work socially distant on a boat, because we recognize it is a challenge. There are challenges like making sure you have the same crew all the time; making sure that, if you can't physically distance, you wear a mask; and making sure that when you are on land, you're home, as opposed to being out in the community, before you go back out. These are all things that we've asked to be put in place and the province has been working on that.I'm not sure if the deputy has any comments about the scallop fleets specifically. I'll see if he has anything to add there.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicScallopsWorkplace health and safetyChrisd'EntremontWest NovaTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1645)[English]The at-sea observer program is critical in order to have the science so that we can make the right management decisions. It's also part of an agreement we have with the United States that they are part of our processes. We recognize that it's going to be challenging for people. We're trying to be flexible. The thing is that the harvesters, as well as the observers, have to feel that they're safe on the boat. It's a two-way street. It's not just one or the other; it's both of them. This is definitely something we'll be working on, but we recognize that we need to have those observers on the boats. It's a critical piece of science for the industry.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersGroundfishPandemicWorkplace health and safetyChrisd'EntremontWest NovaChrisd'EntremontWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1650)[English] With regard to the elver fishery, we have to make this decision based on conservation. We were very concerned about the stocks this year. Initially, a 45-day restriction was put in place, and now it's extended because we still have concerns around the stock. We are now consulting with the industry and with indigenous communities to figure out the best way forward. We want to make sure that we do everything we can to conserve this species so that it can be fished for generations to come.COVID-19EelFisheries and fishersPandemicChrisd'EntremontWest NovaChrisd'EntremontWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1650)[English]We're working on a number of different initiatives with regard to marketing, of course with provinces and territories, and we are also looking at the Canadian seafood stabilization fund. It's able to provide funding for processors who may need to remarket their products. For example, if their packaging was translated for an Asian market, they can now use this funding to rebrand their product for the French and English markets. There are funds available to help with those types of things as well.COVID-19Fish and seafoodMarketingPandemicChrisd'EntremontWest NovaChrisd'EntremontWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1650)[English]Good for you.Chrisd'EntremontWest NovaChrisd'EntremontWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1650)[English]Yes. The fishers' EI is going to be available based on the previous seasons—COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsRobertMorrisseyEgmontRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1650)[English]That is correct, I believe. Deputy Sargent, is that correct?COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsRobertMorrisseyEgmontTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1650)[English]Yes, they are.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersPandemicSocial benefitsRobertMorrisseyEgmontRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1650)[English]Yes, I am. It is something we are very aware of. It is a concern. You're right. Of course, I would suggest that people who see that should be reporting it.COVID-19Illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing activitiesLobstersPandemicRobertMorrisseyEgmontRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1655)[English]This is one of the things we've seen. It's interesting that it took a pandemic for us to see that Canadians don't buy enough seafood. This is something we've been talking about since the start of the pandemic. People need to be aware that not only is this supporting our rural coastal communities, but it's good for you. It's part of the food chain and an excellent source of protein, and it's delicious. You can't go wrong with Canadian seafood.We are working with our provincial counterparts to come up with ideas for marketing. We're hoping that we'll have something to announce very soon on that. Hopefully, within the next week or so, we'll be able to make some announcements with regard to some marketing plans that we're going to be putting in place.COVID-19Fish and seafoodPandemicTradeRobertMorrisseyEgmontRobertMorrisseyEgmont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1655)[English]I do meet with my provincial counterparts. I know that some of them have stepped up with some aid. It's not nearly as much as what is needed, obviously, but we're still working with them. I don't know, Deputy Sargent, if you have anything you can add there.COVID-19Debt reliefFisheries and fishersPandemicProvincial governmentRobertMorrisseyEgmontTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1655)[English]Thank you for the very, very good question. Of course, since the onset of the pandemic, we have been working to address the issues immediately because we know that's what we need to do. This is an immediate concern. One of the things we have seen, of course, is where there are gaps within the sector, within the industry, and how we can best fill those as we go forward. I have said from the start that there has to be an immediate response, then a mid-term response, and then a long-term response to the industry and what it needs. We're going to continue to work with the industry to fill the gaps and to find where the challenges are. We have seen things like the programs that are in place in agriculture; we don't have an equivalent in fisheries. These are all questions we're asking ourselves now, and how we can best go forward to continue to grow our industry.COVID-19Economic impactFisheries and fishersPandemicMaximeBlanchette-JoncasRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesMaximeBlanchette-JoncasRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1655)[English]I'm going to turn this question over to the deputy, please.KenMcDonaldAvalonTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1700)[English] I'm going to turn this over to the deputy minister.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1700)[English]I'm going to turn that over to the deputy minister.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1700)[English]Thank you very much, everyone. I want to thank Chris d'Entremont for inviting me to his place for lobster tonight.KenMcDonaldAvalonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1715)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all our witnesses for being here today.Dr. Nickerson, I'll stick with vaccine development just for a moment. I believe Dalhousie is having Canada's first clinical trials for a potential vaccine.I was very taken by the idea of ensuring equitable access to a vaccine. I'm wondering if you could tell me if there are any good precedents or good practices from other jurisdictions that Canada can use as a model for ensuring equitable access.I also appreciate the "common sense safeguards" line you used.COVID-19ImmunizationPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamJasonNickerson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1720)[English]Sticking with equity and sticking with Dr. Nickerson, Patty Hajdu has said that a pandemic anywhere can quickly become a pandemic everywhere. Given that mantra, can you tell the committee why you feel it's important that we work to ensure that every country has resources to be able to respond to COVID-19?COVID-19PandemicJasonNickersonJasonNickerson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1720)[English] Canada has done a pretty great job. As borders get ready to reopen, what are your biggest concerns about places that have yet to do a great job, countries that have yet to flatten that curve?COVID-19PandemicJasonNickersonJasonNickerson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1755)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair, and hello to my colleagues and to the witnesses today.I've said this before. I forget the number of meetings we've had. I should know that offhand, but there's been plenty during this COVID pandemic. However, each of the witnesses has provided so much information and knowledge to us, to me and to the Canadian public, and I just want to thank you folks for this today.I'm going to start my questioning with the Canadian Dental Association. You have aha moments when you're asking questions or, more importantly, listening to the answers. Dr. Armstrong, you talked about looking at dentistry as many outpatients, and I found that to be an incredible aha moment for me in terms of reframing perceptions versus realities in health care. You made a really interesting comment, and I want to drill a little deep into it. You talked about the $3 billion that could be invested, or should be invested, into the province from the feds. I think you've alluded a little bit to it, but I want to give you this opportunity to maybe do a little deeper dive on what those specific elements, those areas of investment, would be. A second question, and I'll stay with the Canadian Dental Association, is that dental services are beginning to resume across the country as are a lot of other health care services. Can you tell us what dentistry is going to look like in the next day, 24 hours or next couple of weeks, as opposed to pre-COVID?Thank you very much.COVID-19Dentistry and dentistsPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamJimArmstrong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1800)[English]A bit of a running theme in today's discussions has been around equitable access for sure.I'm really interested in learning more about teledentistry as well. What we're seeing on the telemedicine side in Nova Scotia is that there's been obviously an increased uptake because of COVID, and people are getting a little bit more familiar with that concept. I'd be interested in learning more about teledentistry. Thank you for that.My next question is for the witness from the Ottawa Hospital.I'm hoping you can walk through what it's like for a person to be hospitalized with COVID at your hospital. I'm interested in the treatment but I'm also interested in the aftercare as well. I wonder if you could, for the panel here, for my colleagues, and for Canadians, walk through that for us if you could.COVID-19Dentistry and dentistsPandemicJimArmstrongDaveNeilipovitz//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1800)[English]Thank you very much, folks.DaveNeilipovitzRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1210)[English]Mr. Chair, over the last few months I have watched constituents in my riding come together to look out for one another during these challenging times. Regardless of how deep and painful this pandemic has been, it continues to amaze me just how brightly the collective character of Cape Breton—Canso shines through. Whether it is someone like Glen Muise, who delivers iPads to seniors' homes so they can connect with loved ones, teachers who deliver meals to students in need, Liam and Lucus Sakalauskas, two young boys who keep youth informed across the east coast, or Rose Fitzgerald, who delivered bouquets made from the remaining flowers from her shop to essential workers across her county, constituents in Cape Breton—Canso have stepped up to support their community and to support those in need.Mr. Chair, as you know it is with great pride that I represent my constituents in Cape Breton—Canso. The people in Cape Breton and northeastern Nova Scotia care deeply about one another. They know that as a community, we're only as strong as our most vulnerable people, and I cannot help but be filled with joy when I see these gestures happening across my riding.Thanks so much.Cape BretonCOVID-19PandemicStatements by MembersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1515)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our guests for being with us. I was actually going to go down a path very similar to that of my colleague Mr. Cumming on the timing issue. When I first looked at the numbers, I would have said the same thing. It does look like a fairly limited early uptake. From your testimony, though—and frankly, from the business owners I've spoken to in my own community—it's clear that there is a real frustration with the sense that debt seems to be one of the few options available in certain circumstances. I think you eloquently outlined the fact that perhaps business owners were going to the CERB for personal income; for fixed expenses like utilities, CEBA seemed to provide the fix; the wage subsidy for wages, and so on. I think you're right to say that business owners are availing themselves of these other, potentially more generous measures first. There is a great difference between the time of application, I take it, and the time the program was opened, because business owners need to figure this out for themselves.I'm curious, though. What information are you relying on when you say that you project this to pick up over the summer? Do you have numbers you're looking at that you anticipate to see in terms of what would look like success?Business Credit Availability ProgramCOVID-19LoansPandemicSmall and medium-sized enterprisesWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMaireadLavery//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1520)[English]One of the things that keep coming up when I speak to business owners locally is that businesses are running out of money. We tend to call it liquidity in Ottawa and on this committee; we tend to call it money at home. There's a short-term and a medium-term crunch. I think in the long term people have faith that Canada is strong enough and we're going to get back on our feet. Everyone's optimistic that, five years from now, the economy will look roughly the way it would have looked had this not happened. The intervening period could come with a lot of pain if we don't have an effective policy response.It sounds like some of the programs you're discussing today are great to solve the medium-term liquidity crunch, but while we're waiting for a $6.25-million loan or a wage subsidy, for that matter, do you have advice on what kinds of programs would support those businesses that are just trying to get that bridge between now and when these bigger allotments of funds to help with their liquidity or money come in?COVID-19LiquidityPandemicMaireadLaveryMaireadLavery//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1525)[English]Thank you.Mr. Chair, I assume that's my time.MaireadLaveryWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1525)[English] I'll pass it on to our next questioner. Thank you.WayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1825)[English]I have a point of order. I know during your prelude, Pierre, you indicated you hope to get support. I don't know if you were wanting to convince us with the introductory remarks, which you're entitled to, but I expect you'll find support from our side of the table for your motion. If it changes your approach to the sales job, that is information I thought you may want to have.Auditor General of CanadaAudits and auditorsCommittee businessCOVID-19MotionsOffice of the Auditor GeneralPandemicPierrePoilievreHon.CarletonWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan (Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard): (1410)[English]Thank you very much.Good afternoon, everyone. It's great to be here with you today and to speak to the members of this committee as the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard.I would first like to congratulate you, Mr. McDonald, on your election as chair, and I thank the other members for serving on this very important committee. As you know, I've had the honour not only to serve on the committee but to serve as chair, and I will say that for those three and a half years, I enjoyed immensely working with you all.(1415)[Translation]I know how important it will be to listen to the advice of members of Parliament as we work together in the weeks, months and years ahead to manage the challenges and opportunities facing the fisheries and oceans sector.[English] I appreciate the invitation to discuss Canada’s commitment to our salmon fisheries and, in particular, the measures we have taken and will continue to take under very difficult circumstances caused by COVID-19 with respect to the landslide along the Fraser River at Big Bar in British Columbia.I am accompanied today, as you mentioned, by Deputy Minister Tim Sargent; commissioner of the Coast Guard, Mario Pelletier; and many others. After my opening remarks, my officials and I will be happy to answer your questions.As you know, the Government of Canada is committed to building strong partnerships to help manage our salmon fisheries. This commitment was clearly demonstrated by the unprecedented emergency response last summer to mitigate the impacts of the landslide at Big Bar, north of Lillooet, B.C.We have been working hard and in close co-operation with the Province of British Columbia and impacted first nations. An incident command team, jointly led by the federal government, the Government of British Columbia and first nations governments worked together over the summer to respond to this crisis. The work continued over the fall, this past winter and spring and was supported by other departments and agencies, stakeholder groups, and geotechnical and hydrological experts.I would like to stress that this group of dedicated professionals and volunteers has put long hours into dealing with this very complex logistical challenge.In January, after a request for proposals, Peter Kiewit Sons ULC, was awarded a $17.6-million contract to work on rock remediation. This work involved building a road down the side of a mountain to gain access to the site to allow for removal of massive rocks. It involved water blasting of huge boulders so that they could remove obstructions and slow down the water flow. My first trip to British Columbia as minister was to Big Bar in January so I could see first-hand the progress and work being done to address this critical slide. Initial blasting in February was followed by a second round of blasting that began in March. Road work continues in order to secure overland access and, throughout the process, an archeologist has been working directly with two local first nations, and they've been working hard to preserve the natural history of this site.We all hoped the problem could be resolved quickly, but resolving the blockage has been a massive undertaking, and it is going to take considerable resources to address this adequately. Making sure we do everything possible to ensure the survival of these fish populations means we need to plan for every outcome and put mitigation measures in place. That's exactly what we are doing.As minister, the protection, conservation and restoration of our wild Pacific salmon stocks in British Columbia is an extremely important priority for me. My actions are guided by Canada’s wild salmon policy implementation plan. This plan speaks to the importance of maintaining the biodiversity of these important stocks as well as their significance to indigenous people, commercial and recreational fish harvesters and British Columbians overall. Nearly half of B.C.’s chinook salmon stocks are in decline, with Fraser chinook on the verge of collapse. More than ever, we need to ensure that our wild stocks are protected. The actions our government has taken to fully address the 75 recommendations of Justice Cohen’s 2012 report from the commission of inquiry into the decline of sockeye salmon in the Fraser River have been integrated into our ongoing habitat, science, aquaculture and fisheries management work. As members of this committee are well aware, we've made a good start, but we have much more work to do to protect our wild Pacific salmon.We are committed to working with the Province of British Columbia to ensure that Pacific salmon strategies are coordinated, coherent and connected. We collaborated closely to create the $142-million B.C. salmon restoration and innovation fund, a federal-provincial cost-shared program funded jointly with the Government of British Columbia. This fund will support the fish and seafood sector in British Columbia to position itself for long-term sustainability.We made an additional contribution of $5 million to the Pacific salmon endowment fund to support the Pacific Salmon Foundation, which is doing incredible work and is an important voice in the development of plans and programming to protect and restore wild Pacific salmon and its habitat.We announced $15 million in additional annual funding to support stock assessment, coded wire tagging and catch monitoring of Pacific salmon. These investments contribute to our obligations under the Canada-U.S. Pacific Salmon Treaty and are targeted towards better managing west coast salmon fisheries.Last, we are investing $107 million to support the implementation of the renewed Fisheries Act, including money for stock assessments for major fish stocks across Canada.As I mentioned at the outset, indigenous and coastal communities have been and will continue to be on the front line of salmon conservation. We will continue to work with first nations and other key stakeholders to improve our understanding of trends in salmon stocks, protect and conserve salmon habitats and ensure the sustainability of Canada’s salmon populations.Last August, my department released the “State of the Canadian Pacific Salmon” report, the first-ever overview of how salmon are responding to climate change, in which DFO scientists presented and discussed observations and research on Pacific salmon populations and their ecosystems.Over the next year and beyond, my department and I will expand our focus on these and other actions to preserve and rebuild Pacific salmon stocks with a real effort on measures to ensure that salmon recover and thrive for future generations of Canadians.With that, Mr. Chair, I am happy to take your questions.Environmental clean-upFisheries stocksFraser RiverGovernment contractsIndigenous peoplesLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonPeter Kiewit Sons ULCPublic consultationKenMcDonaldAvalonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1420)[English]First of all, Mr. Arnold, I very much appreciated working with you over the three and a half years I sat on the FOPO committee. I'm looking forward to the discussions we'll continue to have and the good relationships that we had over the past few years.A number of different issues are facing the Fraser River salmon stocks. The Big Bar landslide of course is a significant one. The landslide was massive. It was 33 storeys high and 17 storeys wide, so we're talking about a significant impact on the Fraser River and on the ability of the stocks to move directly.Climate change is obviously a challenge for the salmon stocks. We're also very concerned of course about the complete decline of the chinook specifically. We're doing everything we possible can to continue to address that. Of course, habitat restoration is going to be a challenge. Coastal restoration is a challenge as well.These are all things we're actively working on to address the decline in the salmon stocks.Chinook salmonEnvironmental clean-upFisheries stocksFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1420)[English]We have been actively working on remediation efforts since we were first notified about the slide, and automatically started working with the communities, the province and the first nation community last summer to move the salmon through the area as quickly as we could. Unfortunately, some of the work had to be put on hold because of the weather. During the fall there were high water levels and flooding. Once Peter Kiewit Sons was hired, work began immediately, as well as continual planning we were doing for the site.One of the things we have done to mitigate the challenges is to set up two working groups. As the work is being done they are working on the next measures in case things don't work. We're continually looking at how we can best go forward. We know this is a huge undertaking. As I said, this was a massive slide and it's going to take a significant amount of work and resources to clear it, and we're continuing to look at different ways we can mitigate the challenges we're facing so that the Fraser River salmon can get through.We know how critically important those fish are to the communities, as well as to the culture of British Columbia, so we continually look at other ways to address the concerns.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1425)[English] Mr. Arnold, we're continuing to look at both long-term and short-term plans and measures to help with the recovery of the salmon stocks because of the Big Bar landslide. To help support many of the upper Fraser River salmon that are in a poor state, we're currently considering investigating emergency conservation enhancement options that include hatchery components.It's important that we continue to consider all of those options as we go forward, and we're committed to supporting the recovery of these fish.Environmental clean-upFisheries stocksFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1425)[English]Right now we have a number of different measures in place. We will start the Whooshh system, the pneumatic fish pump, which is being built right now, to get the fish over the passage, as well as a natural fish passageway. Those are just two of the measures.We are continuing to look at other ways that we can help support to make sure that the fish can get through this year.Environmental clean-upFish laddersFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1425)[English]These would not be cost overruns, but measures that we know have to be put in place. We knew right from the start that this was going to be a significant project. The first phase was the contract with Kiewit Sons for the $17 million. Obviously, we hoped it would do everything it needed to do, but we knew right from the beginning that this was going to be a huge undertaking and that we would continue to find the ways necessary....It's critical to make sure that these fish get through the passageway. This is something that we'll continue to work with the province on, as well as the first nation communities, because we know how important it is to make sure those fish get through.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverGovernment contractsLandslides and rock slidesPeter Kiewit Sons ULCKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1425)[English]I think one of the things that we have to remember is that this is an extremely remote location. This area is not monitored on a regular basis—even the local communities were not aware of the slide. As soon as we were aware of it, we moved very quickly to address the challenges that we saw.The boots on the ground work that was done by the people in the first nation community, by DFO and by people from the province working to get the fish over the passageway last summer was very inspiring to see. Everybody came together with a common goal. They knew it had to be done, and over 60,000 fish were moved manually by this group of people.I think that just goes to show how critically important this is and that people are willing to get on board and do whatever they have to do to make sure that the fish get through the passageway.Environmental clean-upEnvironmental monitoringFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1430)[English]It was probably the coldest I've ever been outside.I was sworn in at about 1 o'clock in the afternoon on a November day, and by about 4:30 I had heard about Big Bar. Therefore, this has been a priority for our department and me since the very start. It was important for me to get to Big Bar. I was fortunate enough to go with my parliamentary secretary, Terry Beech, to see the slide first-hand. It is a significant slide—it's almost unbelievable. It's really quite awe inspiring to see the amount of work that has to be done to clear that passageway. The slide itself, as I said earlier, was equivalent to a 33-storey high, 17-storey wide building. I got to meet with the chiefs from the first nation communities while I was there. They, like me at first, were saying why don't we just move the rocks? It's not just a matter of moving a few rocks: it is going to take a huge effort to clear that passageway. It's been really quite a good story to tell about the amount of work that we've been able to do in co-operation with the first nation communities there, and the province, to make sure that we clear that passageway.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1430)[English]Last year, we were able to move 60,000 fish with help and then 220,000 got through on their own. We are continuing to work now with what's known as the Whooshh system or the pneumatic fish pump, which we feel will have a significant impact on our being able to move more fish, as well as the natural fish passageway that's also being constructed at this point.I don't know, Deputy, if you have anything you would like to add there with regard to what we're expecting to see go through this summer.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1430)[English]Our government, as I said, is considering measures, both short term and long term, to help with the recovery of the stocks. We know there's going to be a poor state for many of the upper Fraser River salmon, so we're looking at emergency conservation enhancement measures, including the hatchery component. I will say that, as of June 3, the holding facility is already in operation, but we're also continuing to consider all options when it comes to the recovery of these stocks. I'm not sure, Deputy, if there's anything else that maybe you would like to add.Environmental clean-upFisheries stocksFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1435)[English] That is correct. We do surveillance when there is fishing going on. If there was no fishing at that time, we would not have been monitoring it at that time for the slide. Once we found out about the slide, we quickly acted on what we had learned and started work right away to mitigate the challenges we were facing from the slide.Environmental clean-upEnvironmental monitoringFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1435)[English]I'm going to refer that question to my deputy, please.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1435)[English]As I've said, we're taking a number of things into consideration when we look at how we're going to deal with the Fraser River in the future. I'm sure that's one thing we could consider as well and that we will look at.Environmental clean-upEnvironmental monitoringFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1435)[English]Yes.Environmental clean-upEnvironmental monitoringFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1435)[English]As of 2018, Fisheries and Oceans Canada has acted on all 75 recommendations in the Cohen commission report. We recognize that acting on many of the recommendations is ongoing as well as incremental. Many commitments to ongoing actions are reflected in the wild salmon policy of the 2018-22 implementation plan, which outlines specific activities and approaches that will be led by the department towards restoring, maintaining the health—Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesSockeye salmonEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1440)[English]Yes. I'm still talking. You asked me a question. I'm trying to answer it.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1440)[English]As I was saying—EdFastHon.AbbotsfordKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1440)[English]As I've said, we are looking at a number of different measures to deal with the Fraser River salmon stocks, particularly because of the Big Bar landslide. We're investigating emergency conservation enhancement options that include the hatchery. We have already started. The holding facility is now open for that operation.Of course, with the renewal of the Fisheries Act, we have also committed to building stocks as well as rebuilding plans. Those are all things that are ongoing. There are a number of different challenges facing salmon. Habitat restoration is one that we're working on with the BCSRIF program, with communities engaged in that, as well as on coastal erosion. There are a number of different measures we're taking to help protect those stocks.Environmental clean-upFisheries stocksFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1440)[English]There actually is a plan around using hatcheries for the upper Fraser River. I could maybe turn that over to the deputy to further address that question.AquacultureEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1440)[English]Our commitment right now is to do everything we can to mitigate the challenges we're facing because of the Big Bar slide. Those are all parts of that solution. We want to make sure that we do everything we can so that there's natural passage of the fish, but we will be looking at other measures to make sure we're addressing the ongoing challenges with the reduced stocks.AquacultureEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1440)[English]Mr. Chair, I'm having a hard time unmuting my mike. I apologize.I will tell you that we have worked very closely with the [Technical difficulty—Editor]GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1445)[English]I apologize. I'm not sure why that keeps happening.I will say that, as you are aware, the BCSRIF fund is a program that we jointly manage with the Province of British Columbia. We have over $70 million worth of projects already approved. We're continuing to assess projects on a regular basis. We know that a lot needs to be done for the salmon stocks, but we do need to work with the province to make sure that we're able to continue with this program.Environmental clean-upFisheries stocksFraser RiverHabitat conservationLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonKenMcDonaldAvalonGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1445)[English]As you know, Mr. Johns, my mandate letter was clear on moving from open-net to closed containment. We are continuing to do the consultation process, as you are aware. This is something that's extremely important to first nations communities as well as the B.C. government. We're working in collaboration and in consultation with them to do those things—Closed containment aquacultureEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesSockeye salmonGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1445)[English]We're continuing to work with the first nation communities that will be impacted, going forward, and we're finding solutions as we go.Closed containment aquacultureEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesSockeye salmonGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1445)[English] I am actually going to turn that over to my deputy.BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1450)[English]Mark-selective fisheries are definitely something we are looking at. They are not the silver bullet, though, that's going to save the salmon stocks. There are also a number of questions that need to be answered around a mark-selective fishery before we can go ahead with it.We are continuing to work with the groups. I want to particularly thank the Sport Fishing Institute for talking to me about this fishery and their ideas, which I think were very good. There are, as I said, still a lot of questions with regard to things like data collection, impacts on the wild Pacific salmon and consultations with first nations about a mark-selective fishery and how it impacts their fishery. There are a number of things that need to be addressed before we can move that way in a big way, but it is definitely something that we are looking at seriously.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverHunting and sport fishingLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1450)[English] Yes. Thank you.KenMcDonaldAvalonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1450)[English]I would say that the regular bulletins have been extremely important for the people in the communities as well as for the people in British Columbia. As you are well aware, the salmon population is something that's critically important to B.C., not only as a fishery, but also as a culture, so keeping people informed about what was happening at Big Bar was something we felt was extremely important to do. I don't know, Deputy, if you have anything else you would like to add to that.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverInformation disseminationLandslides and rock slidesPatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1455)[English]We monitor for fish in two ways, above water and below. We use hydro-acoustic monitoring and sonar technology to count the number of salmon successfully passing through the slide. We also use radio tagging, which involves inserting a tag into the fish's stomach and attaching it to its back. The radio tag emits a signal, and it's detected onshore. That can give us a better idea of how many fish are going through.I am going to turn that one over to the deputy as well, because it's quite technical.Environmental clean-upEnvironmental monitoringFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1455)[English]So far, only two chinook have been detected on site. That's not unusual, apparently, at this time of year. We're working hard to make sure we get the work done before the fish arrive. That was always a priority for us, to do as much as we could as quickly as we could before the fish arrive.I don't know, Deputy, if there's anything else there that you want to add, but from my understanding, there have not been any fish arriving yet.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonPatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1455)[English]We're continuing to monitor for the fish as they come, and we're continuing to build the Whooshh system to get that in place as well as the natural fish passageway. This is, as I've said, an unprecedented slide. It's something that has needed all hands on deck since day one to make sure we can get fish through as quickly as possible. We recognize how important it is to the communities in the area, as well as to B.C. and to the fish population, so we want to make sure we're doing everything possible. Of course, with putting in the Whooshh system, we have been faced with challenges because of weather and high water. I'm not sure if there's anything else there, Deputy, that we wanted to add about some of the challenges.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonPatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1455)[English]I am not aware of any, but I would turn that one to the deputy.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonPatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1455)[English]As I said, we've had these two working groups there since, I believe, late December or early January. They work together to find the best way forward in case things don't go as planned. We want to make sure that we're not waiting until we find out if things are working before we have the next measures in place. We're going to continue to work with them. We have a number of different professionals on site who are working with the first nations community. We have an archaeologist there to make sure we're keeping the land as it should stay. We have, of course, a significant number of engineers. The people from Kiewit have been exceptional in terms of keeping us posted on what they're doing.I'm not sure, Deputy, if you have anything else you wanted to add there.Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1500)[English]I think the ultimate goal would be to clear it enough so that it's a natural passageway for the fish, so that it's not something that we have to continually monitor or maintain. Barring that, we will continue to make sure that there is a natural-like fish passageway there for the salmon to get through, as well as the Whooshh system this year, in order to help make sure that we get as many through as possible. I think the primary goal ultimately would be to clear it enough so that we don't have to maintain it and we don't have to be concerned about it. We'll continue to work toward that, but in the meantime we are making sure there are measures in place to get the fish through.Environmental clean-upFish laddersFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryPatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1500)[English]I'm going to turn that over to the deputy.PatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1500)[English]Madam Chair, I would not say that this is over cost. We initially put $17 million into the remediation efforts, knowing that if it was not enough, we would have to continue with more. We're going to continue to make investments as required for this critical initiative.We have to take all steps possible to clear this way. This is significant to the communities that it serves, and we're going to make sure that we do everything we have to do to make sure that the salmon populations can move. It's taking some time, some effort and some money, but we know this is critical to the people of British Columbia, to the salmon stocks and to the first nations communities in the area. We're going to continue to do what we need to do to make sure that those salmon pass through. Environmental clean-upFraser RiverGovernment contractsLandslides and rock slidesMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1505)[English]We're continuing to make sure that we mitigate the challenges faced by Big Bar.Right now we are working with Kiewit to clear the way as quickly as possible. The Whooshh system is being put in place and the natural fish passageway is being put in place. We need to make sure that we do everything we can to address the concerns.Ultimately the goal is to clear the area enough so that it's a finished project, but until we have that done, we will continue to make sure we're investing where we need to.Deputy Minister—Environmental clean-upFraser RiverGovernment contractsLandslides and rock slidesMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1505)[English]Deputy Minister, can I pass that to you, please?MelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1505)[English]I believe there was a small slide in May that was outside of work hours. I believe it was two cubic metres or something like that.Deputy Minister, maybe you can take that question.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1505)[English] I would say that the major reason for the delay on the work was water flow. It was because of the floods that were happening in fall 2018. Deputy, if there's anything I have missed there, can you add to it, please?BacklogsEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1505)[English]Actually, Mr. Arnold, I believe what was said was that we've already started with the enhancement programs with the hatchery in the upper Fraser. That is already working as a holding facility for the fisheries.We are also undertaking a number of different measures with regard to habitat restoration outside of the Fraser River in British Columbia in general. The B.C. SRIF fund has spent over $70 million to make sure that we are dealing with a lot of the challenges facing the stocks.Of course, we also have management measures that we put in place to deal with the stock assessment, and we'll continue to look at a lot of different ways that we can help. We know there are a lot of challenges facing the B.C. salmon right now, and we're working diligently to find the answers for those challenges.Environmental clean-upFisheries stocksFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1510)[English]One of the things I need to talk about here is the magnitude of the work that has been done so far. With regard to getting to the site, in general, as I said, this is an extremely remote area. We had to put in roadways in order to be able to move boulders. Kiewit has done phenomenal work in terms of getting us to that point. If I had an answer, Mr. Hardie, on when it was going to be done, I would be so thrilled, but right now it's all hands on deck every day to try to make sure we clear the passage and make sure we put measures in place to mitigate the challenges facing the salmon in the area. Deputy, do you have anything else that you would like to add there? I know that we are working extremely hard to do as much as we can to get it done as quickly as we can. Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1510)[English]Deputy, I am going to turn that one to you.KenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1510)[English]There are a number of challenges facing the B.C. salmon populations, including, as you said, the flood challenges. Climate change with regard to habitat is definitely a significant challenge for the salmon. We are taking a number of steps. There is no silver bullet to fix the challenges we're facing with salmon populations.I actually look forward to your committee doing a study to see what you think are some of the things that can be done, because we are working around the clock to make sure we are doing everything we possibly can to protect the salmon population and to grow the numbers.As I said, the Fisheries Act has talked about rebuilding stocks. Those are all things we're working on now, but more needs to be done in terms of how we go forward to best protect these stocks.I look forward to your committee doing some work on that and giving us some ideas on how that can best go forward.Environmental clean-upFlood controlFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1515)[English]We're committed to moving to closed containment. That is something that was in our mandate. We're working now diligently with the province as well as with the first nations communities.Of course, in the context of COVID-19, some things have had to be put on hold for a while to make sure we do this right. It's something we know is important to the people of British Columbia, but we also recognize that open-pen aquaculture is extremely important to some of our coastal communities. In terms of crustaceans, communities there rely heavily on it for their economic survival.We can't do this unless we do it in collaboration and in consultation with these organizations. That's what we're going to do. That's what we're committed to. We have already started the process.Closed containment aquacultureEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1515)[English]We are working extremely hard with our first nations communities and with the Province of B.C. in order to make sure we're doing everything we possibly can to move to closed containment.We know there are many communities that rely on open-net pens as their economic drivers. We are working with them to figure out the best ways forward, and we will continue to do that work.Closed containment aquacultureEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1515)[English] I'm going to turn that question over to the deputy, please.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1520)[English]We've been very open and transparent about what has been happening at Big Bar since the inception. We put out weekly bulletins, and we engage with stakeholders and the communities in the areas to make sure that they feel they've been well informed. I've kept in touch with the MP from the area to make sure that he feels he has received the information he needs, as well as with anyone who has reached out to us. DFO has been extremely responsive in answering questions as they come forward.Deputy, I'm not sure if there's anything else that needs to be added.Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverInformation disseminationLandslides and rock slidesGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1520)[English]I'm going to turn that question to the deputy.RichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1520)[English]Of course, this year we're going to have different processes in place in order to help make sure that the salmon get through. With a pneumatic fish pump, with the natural passageway, the idea is that more fish will be able to get through. We are also willing to have people on the ground doing the transport, like we had last year.Deputy, is there more you can add? I know that this year the plan is to significantly increase the number of fish that get through.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonRichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacRichardBragdonTobique—Mactaquac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1520)[English]The deputy's microphone was off.RichardBragdonTobique—MactaquacTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1525)[English]With regard to fisheries management decisions on the chinook salmon runs specifically, more than just the management decisions are going to make a difference in the salmon stocks. As I've said, there isn't one specific thing that's going to make all of the difference. It's about making sure salmon have the right habitat. Of course, the Big Bar landslide was something that nobody predicted was going to happen, and it has had an impact on the stock.We are making sure that we're making decisions based on science, and we're making sure that we're doing everything we possibly can to protect those stocks.Deputy Minister, I'm not sure if there's anything else you'd like to add.Environmental clean-upFisheries policyFisheries stocksFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeBlaineCalkinsRed Deer—Lacombe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1525)[English]I actually do—BlaineCalkinsRed Deer—LacombeKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1525)[English]I'm going to turn that over to the deputy minister.PatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1530)[English]I'm turning technical questions over to my deputy. PatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1530)[English] BCSRIF is a phenomenal program that allows communities to do enhancement, working on coastal restoration and working on habitat restoration. We have had great success with this program working with the Province of British Columbia as well as a number of the first nations communities that are very active in making sure the fish habitat is preserved and conserved.We want to make sure that we continue to do that. We've already allocated $70 million of the $148 million in BCSRIF as well as, I think, 29 projects so far, so the money is flowing to the communities and the organizations that are doing this work.Is there anything else, Deputy, that you'd like to add?British Columbia Salmon Restoration and Innovation FundEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonPatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1530)[English]Deputy, I'm going to turn that one to you.PatrickWeilerWest Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky CountryTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1535)[English]Mr. Fast, you're absolutely right. The salmon is absolutely critical to B.C., and I don't mean just as a food source or for commercial harvest but to the very culture. It's so much a part of the identity of British Columbians that it's critical that we make sure we protect and do everything we can to build those stocks back up.With regard to predation, with regard to seals specifically, there are a number of challenges with the seal population. We make our decisions based on the best available science. Ongoing science is being done now to determine what is happening with the seals with regard to the fish stocks, both on the east coast and the west coast. I'm not sure if the deputy can add anything to that in terms of specific things that are being done, but I know a great deal of work is being done around the science of seal predation.Environmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonPredatorsSealsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1535)[English] My understanding is that we have been working closely with the company that is building the pneumatic fish pump in order to accommodate the size of the fish we have. Different sizes of tubes will be used. We are absolutely confident that they will make sure we can move our fish through the pneumatic system.Deputy, I don't know if there's anything else there.Environmental clean-upFish laddersFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonEdFastHon.AbbotsfordTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1540)[English]One of the things that need to be kept in mind is what type of effect hatchery fish will have on wild salmon stocks. I think the concern is that it would be a challenge for wild stocks, and it looks as though we're giving up on wild stocks if we go with a large-scale hatchery.Hatcheries do have a place, there's no question, in terms of helping the stocks and in terms of what we're doing at Big Bar, for example, with regard to capturing the fish now. They're actually now in the holding area so that we can maintain that stock.We recognize that there are a number of people who have real concerns about hatchery fish simply because of the impacts they may have on the wild Pacific salmon. Deputy, I'm not sure if there's anything else there.AquacultureEnvironmental clean-upFisheries stocksFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1540)[English]We're currently looking at a number of different measures. The hatchery at the upper Fraser is one option. As I said, we are already doing the holding facility there for them, because we want to make sure we protect as many as we can, and if it's going to be a challenge for them to get through, we want to make sure we have those genetic fish.With regard to large-scale hatcheries, there are very real concerns about mixing those with the wild Pacific salmon and the genetics involved there. It's a challenge for a lot of first nations communities and it's a challenge for environmental groups. Those are all things we take into consideration, along with making sure that the chinook population in the Fraser right now is being looked at in a hatchery capacity. We're working with a number of organizations to see that it works out.AquacultureEnvironmental clean-upFisheries stocksFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenHardieFleetwood—Port Kells//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1540)[English] That's actually a really good question.One of the things I will say is that we make all of our decisions based on science. It's something that we're strongly committed to.We also recognize that we need to work with a number of different groups. Honestly, consensus in fisheries is never easy to achieve, but I think it is possible because we all want the same thing. We all want the same outcome, and that is that we all want to see better populations for the B.C. salmon. We all want to see them continue to grow in abundance. We want to make sure that they're there for generations to come. We want to be able to make sure that the southern resident killer whales have a food supply. These are all things that we have to take into account. The thing that we have to remember is that there is no one answer to making sure that those populations survive. There are a number of different things that need to be done, and hatcheries may play a role in that.We also recognize that habitat restoration plays a role in that, that climate change plays a role in that, that clearing Big Bar plays a role in that. These are all things that we're working on right now to make sure that we're doing everything that we possibly can to maintain those stocks, because once they're gone, they're not coming back. We need to make sure that we do everything we can to keep them as resilient as they are right now.Environmental clean-upFisheries policyFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonKenHardieFleetwood—Port KellsKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1545)[English]I just need some clarification. Are you asking what the total was for the 192 applications that we had?British Columbia Salmon Restoration and Innovation FundEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1545)[English]I'm going to have to turn that to the deputy.GordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1545)[English] I would say that we are continuing to monitor situations, and we're continuing to look at what needs to be done.With regard to the applications that came through that were rejected, I am not really sure why. Everyone has criteria that they have to meet. We have actually committed $70 million. It's a $148-million fund, so there is still another intake of applications that will be coming forward.Perhaps the deputy has something else he can add there, but I know that we are working to get the money out the door as quickly as we can.British Columbia Salmon Restoration and Innovation FundEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1550)[English] We've committed $148 million under a two-year time frame. We've spent $70 million of that. We still have another $78 million to go. We have approved a number of projects. We know there's more that needs to be done. We know there are a lot of good projects out there and we're working very diligently to make sure we address as many of them as we possibly can.Deputy, I'm not sure if you wanted to add anything else.British Columbia Salmon Restoration and Innovation FundEnvironmental clean-upFraser RiverLandslides and rock slidesPacific salmonGordJohnsCourtenay—AlberniTimothySargent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1550)[English]Thank you, all.KenMcDonaldAvalonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1205)[English]With temperatures going up and restrictions coming down, Nova Scotians are looking forward to the summer. Though our communities feel a little different this year, there's no shortage of local activities to enjoy across the entire region. We are home to world-class beaches along Canada's warmest stretch of ocean on the Northumberland Strait. We also have access to the rugged terrain and white sand beaches of the Eastern Shore along the wild islands that dot the coast. We have great places and events that allow us to socialize while practising physical distancing, like the new beer garden at the Sober Island brewery in Sheet Harbour, the community food forest in Middle Musquodoboit or the Antigonight art festival in Antigonish.We have extraordinary trail systems to get outdoors along the East River and Musquodoboit River Valley, near the lighthouses at Cape George and along Trenton Park and Arisaig Provincial Park.We're even going to be able to take in a movie at the soon-to-be-reopened Highland Drive-In in Westville, so get your popcorn ready.If I'm going to be stuck anywhere this summer, I'm glad it's at home in Nova Scotia. Join me in supporting our local businesses and organizations so we can be tourists in our own backyard. Most of all, be safe out there and enjoy the summer.COVID-19Nova ScotiaPandemicStatements by MembersTourismAlexandraMendèsBrossard—Saint-LambertAlexandraMendèsBrossard—Saint-Lambert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88325AndyFillmoreAndy-FillmoreHalifaxLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FillmoreAndy_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Andy Fillmore (Halifax, Lib.): (1210)[English]On the northern tip of Halifax sat Africville, a village founded by Black Loyalists, slaves freed after the War of 1812 and the American Revolutionary War. In 1960, in an egregious act of racism, Africville was abruptly erased from the map in the name of urban renewal. African Nova Scotians were evicted, and their homes were demolished.While my city carries the shame for what happened to Africville, it was not an isolated incident in Canada, where racist policies, both implicit and explicit, have shaped the cities we live in today.This Sunday, I joined hundreds of Haligonians on the reclaimed grounds of Africville for a protest by prayer. It was a stark reminder that the injustices we fight today are built on generations of discriminatory policies.Today, I call on every member of this House to stand shoulder to shoulder, hand in hand, and together recommit ourselves to the work of naming and changing the ongoing trends of power and privilege that riddle our society and its institutions.Thank you, Madam Chair.Black peoplesCOVID-19Nova ScotiaPandemicProtestsRacial equalityStatements by MembersAlexandraMendèsBrossard—Saint-LambertAlexandraMendèsBrossard—Saint-Lambert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1710)[English] I'm so sorry to interrupt.The sound of the interpretation seems to be cutting in and out. It's hard to follow. The sound of the interpreter's voice is cutting in and out. Sorry to bother everybody.ÉricCardinalBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1810)[English]Thank you, wela'lin.Hello to everybody from the unceded territory of the Mi'kmaq here in northern Nova Scotia.First of all I'd like to congratulate Mr. Elijah Williams on his students' graduation. That's wonderful to hear.Many of our students from Truro go to Sheridan College to study musical theatre and things like that, so I am well acquainted with it. That's really great news. One of the problems I have seen occurring in education over the years is that my parents were both teachers and when we moved to Nova Scotia from Australia, my mother said that the books she was supposed to teach history from were full of racist epithets. Canadian historyCOVID-19Education and trainingPandemicRacial equalityBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1815)[English] Let me just start right in there again. Listen, I think one of the problems in Canada and probably in most of the world is that when it comes to education, the textbooks that have been used for many years have been racist. When my mother, father and I moved to Nova Scotia from Australia back in 1968, my mom was supposed to teach history and said to her class that she was going to show them where the history books belonged. Clunk, she threw them into the garbage cans at the front of the class and said, “I refuse to teach you because these are racist to the black community and to our first nations people. It's not true what they're teaching.” My father taught at a teacher's college in Truro and there were no Mi'kmaq teachers in Nova Scotia. So he and Noel Knockwood and Bernie Francis, two incredible Mi'kmaq gentlemen from Nova Scotia, got together and put a program together called the Micmac teacher education program. This was in the early seventies and they trained Mi'kmaq students to become teachers and graduated 13 teachers. Now some government of the day eliminated that program afterwards. I think this is part of the problem: there are not enough indigenous people and first nation people in the system, and a lot of the history that Canadians have been learning is false.I would say this has contributed to the racism in this country. I would just like to know what any of you might think about this and if you think this has contributed to racism, and what we can do to change things.Canadian historyCOVID-19Education and trainingPandemicRacial equalityBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1820)[English]Who would like to answer?BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekElijahWilliams//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1820)[English]Thank you.ElijahWilliamsBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1825)[English]Thank you very much.I am coming to you from the Mi'kmaq community of Eskasoni, which is on unceded land.I've heard Mr. Williams and Ms. Gabriel talk about barriers that exist for indigenous people and about institutional racism.I am reminded of my friend, the late Donald Marshall Jr., and his inquiry. His wrongful conviction highlighted racism within the justice system and made several recommendations about inclusion in education. I am wondering in what ways we can best decolonize education, take down barriers that exist for indigenous people in education, and at the same time, create awareness of our shared indigenous histories and contributions to Canada.If you could each do two minutes, that would be very helpful. Canadian historyCOVID-19Education and trainingPandemicBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekElijahWilliams//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1825)[English] Thank you.Ms. Gabriel.ElijahWilliamsEllenGabriel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1830)[English]Ms. Gabriel, I would like you to comment on what you feel UNDRIP would do for us if we were to implement it in Canada.COVID-19Indigenous policyPandemicUnited Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous PeoplesEllenGabrielEllenGabriel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1405)[English]Mr. Chair, I don't think Andrew Bishop has arrived yet, so the clerk has suggested that perhaps we can move him to third.PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1420)[English]What's the status, Mr. Clerk? Have you had any update from IT?PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeMarc-OlivierGirard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1420)[English]From a security perspective, there wouldn't be a problem, would there? This is a public meeting. Marc-OlivierGirardMarc-OlivierGirard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1425)[English]Mr. Chair, I see that Mr. Bishop has arrived.Perhaps we could allow him five minutes or something.PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1435)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Andrew, it's great to see you. You gave me a bit of a scare that we weren't going to get you on here. We'll have to keep working on rural Internet down our way, won't we?Mr. Andrew Bishop: Excellent. Thank you.Mr. Kody Blois: Thank you for your testimony, and thank you to all the witnesses for their testimony.You mentioned temporary foreign workers. I know, Andrew, that you and your family treat your temporary foreign workers basically as an extension of your family. Can you express to this committee how important it is to have those workers and how important the additional funding from the government was in helping with those additional costs you mentioned?COVID-19Foreign workersPandemicPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeAndrewBishop//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1435)[English]I want to ask you about hiring locals, because you mentioned that there was some attrition from your workforce because of workers' concerns about the resulting COVID-19. Can you quickly provide an update on how you were able to get those local workers and how they're functioning?COVID-19PandemicPart-time workersAndrewBishopAndrewBishop//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1435)[English]Perfect.You mentioned—and in Nova Scotia we know this to be true—the challenges around the frost and Dorian and things of that nature. We are studying business risk management, and we were before. This is obviously a COVID-related panel, but it goes hand in hand with business risk management. We have a thing called an Olympic average that helps to set the reference margin limits. Can you explain why in Nova Scotia that might be a little lower and how this is impacting the ability for producers to perhaps benefit from programs like AgriStability?AgriStability ProgramApplication processCOVID-19PandemicRisk managementAndrewBishopAndrewBishop//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1435)[English]That's perfect. What I'm understanding, then, is that the higher we can get the reference margin, the more likely it is that farmers like you, who are very diversified in nature, might be able to take advantage of and actually benefit from these programs.AgriStability ProgramApplication processCOVID-19PandemicRisk managementAndrewBishopAndrewBishop//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1440)[English]Andrew, I wasn't around in 2013—it would have been my predecessor, Scott Brison, of course—but this program was cut from an 85% reference margin down to 70% under the former government. Do you have any idea from the community as to why that might have happened? Do you remember that recollection or the purpose at the time?AgriStability ProgramApplication processCOVID-19PandemicRisk managementAndrewBishopAndrewBishop//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1440)[English]I want to talk to you about the importance of supporting our regional agricultural centres, of course, after COVID-19. You've had some experience with the Kentville research station and the important work it does. You've been in farming almost 50 years, Andrew. Can you speak to how important that institution is and to any enhancements you'd perhaps like to see in those regional research centres?Agricultural researchCOVID-19PandemicAndrewBishopAndrewBishop//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1440)[English]Lastly, Andrew, you mentioned that you have a mixture of a wholesale and retail business. Many people across Nova Scotia have travelled south to pick apples or pumpkins in the autumn and things like that. Can you talk about how COVID-19 has spurred more interest in local food, with more people wanting to buy local? COVID-19Local productsPandemicAndrewBishopAndrewBishop//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1525)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you to all our witnesses. It's refreshing to hear some of our local producers and their perspectives on these issues.My questions will be directed to Mr. Hutten.Ted, it's great to see you. We had Andrew Bishop on earlier for the first panel. You mentioned that you supply produce to the farmers' markets. I believe you also provide supplies to restaurants and things like that. You mentioned how you pivoted your business to online. Could you speak in broad terms about how this has impacted your business? Are you down a certain percentage? Have you had some cost savings on other sides? Could you tell the committee how you've pivoted? COVID-19Electronic commercePandemicPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeTedHutten//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1530)[English] Obviously, your business model is built on going directly to consumers, selling directly to their homes and things like that. In your mind, what is the most important policy that the Government of Canada has come up with to help support your business and your model in particular?COVID-19Electronic commercePandemicTedHuttenTedHutten//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1530)[English]I want to talk to you about the local interest, because again it seems to be bubbling up in the Annapolis Valley. We have a great tradition of people wanting to support local interests. Have there been any circumstances where people have come up to you and expressed how much they are interested in the local scene and agriculture support right now?COVID-19Local productsPandemicTedHuttenTedHutten//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1530)[English]You are spot-on. There has been a de-industrialization of some of our processing capability in the Annapolis Valley, and perhaps there is an opportunity to return some of that, particularly in those niche scenes.I want to be respectful. I want to turn it over to Ms. Shanahan. I know she has some questions.Thank you, Mr. Hutten. TedHuttenBrendaShanahanChâteauguay—Lacolle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1550)[English]Just for my own understanding, obviously there are four different motions here, all of a different nature. Maybe this is a question for the clerk, but are we as a committee expected to vote in aggregate on all four of these at one time, or are we voting on them individually? What are the circumstances, before we move forward?Committee businessPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeJohnBarlowFoothills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1550)[English] Mr. Chair, as a point of discussion for all the members on this committee, I obviously understand the nature of what Mr. Barlow is putting forward, but I'm curious as to whether the opposition and the other members of this committee have had any conversations with the dairy industry itself to see whether the industry feels this motion is helpful to it, or whether the motion might compromise it in any way, or if this is actually in its interest. Of course, we're all members of Parliament—Liberals, Conservatives, the Bloc and the NDP—but at the end of the day we're all here to serve Canadians and try to work in the best interests of agriculture.I'm going to put it out for discussion to see whether the opposition has had any conversations with the dairy industry on this point.Committee businessPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1555)[English] Mr. Chair, I'll let other members opine on this as well, but my concern is about the premise that there could be information here that is prejudicial against the dairy industry. I understand the opposition members' desire to push this to understand the implementation date, but they have the opportunity to do this in the House of Commons and in the committees that we've allowed.From the conversations I've had, I think many in the dairy industry want to move on from this. This is something that could perhaps continue to drag on, and I think we need to look at what comes next, after this. I don't know that this motion actually does anything to benefit the dairy industry.Committee businessAlistairMacGregorCowichan—Malahat—LangfordRichardLehouxBeauce//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1600)[English]Mr. Chair, could Mr. Barlow repeat his motion? I had some concerns and was willing to propose an amendment about the information that's available. We're dealing with cabinet confidences. This information could be commercially sensitive to our producers, as it relates to our trade relationships and our relationships with agriculture producers.Could I hear Mr. Barlow's motion one more time to make sure this is included? Again, as someone coming from a riding in Nova Scotia, Kings—Hants, I know the importance of the dairy industry. However, I don't know if this motion, in spirit, does anything to help support or change it, other than just perhaps providing information to the opposition. They can ask for this in the House of Commons and will get the same answers.Committee businessPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1600)[English]Yes, that helps to clarify things. However, again, my concern extends to the fact that we still have tools available for members of the opposition to ask these questions. I would be interested—Committee businessPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeJohnBarlowFoothills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1600)[English]Well, I think the idea of bringing everyone together, 338 members, is inappropriate.Committee businessJohnBarlowFoothillsPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1600)[English]My apologies, Mr. Chair; I should have raised my hand in the chat. I look at the rest of the motions that Mr. Barlow has put forth, and I think they're great. I have no problem with them, in terms of that information. I worry about the fact that this agreement has gone through and what type of relationship it could place our country in with other trading partners, including our dairy sector. I've made my comment, and I appreciate everyone else's thoughts as well.Committee businessAlistairMacGregorCowichan—Malahat—LangfordPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1605)[English]Sorry, Mr. Chair; I know I should be raising my hand. That sounds reasonable to me in terms of trying to break that down by province, certainly, if that information is available. We'll be supporting Mr. Perron.Committee businessPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1620)[English]I'll be very quick. I think we've all had a long day here.I simply support what Mr. Barlow said. I would suggest that there be a meeting of just the vice-chairs, almost an informal subcommittee, to discuss this, give some direction and move that forward. To the analysts, I would just make sure that we include some of the things we've heard on the local benefits in terms of how there's been a big push for local, and that it's been a very mixed bag depending on commodity. Those are things we can talk about offline with the vice-chairs.Committee businessPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1210)[English]I have a point of order.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1210)[English]I heard my name being called in the five-minute round, but I don't remember getting my question.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1210)[English]I accept your apology and I know you didn't mean to do it. You're doing a great job as chair, Bob. I come to you from the Eskasoni reserve, the largest Mi'kmaq community. We have close to 5,000 people. I'd say that the majority of the people in this community don't see sections 87 and 89 of the Indian Act as negative things. Manny, I would just like you to elaborate a little bit on the tax rating that you talked about and how that helps the indigenous economic recovery strategy. Can you speak to those points a bit?COVID-19Economic recoveryIndigenous peoplesPandemicPersonal income taxBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekC.T. (Manny)Jules//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1210)[English]Manny, can you tell the committee what section 89 is? I know what it is; I just want to make sure it's clear.COVID-19Indian ActIndigenous peoplesPandemicC.T. (Manny)JulesC.T. (Manny)Jules//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1215)[English]Can you expand on what you meant by tax rating? What does that mean? That was part of my question. COVID-19First NationsPandemicTaxationC.T. (Manny)JulesC.T. (Manny)Jules//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1215)[English]Mr. Calla, I see you have your hand up. Do you want to add to that?C.T. (Manny)JulesHaroldCalla//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1230)[English] Hi, there. It's nice to see all of you.I always like to say thank you, o'wela'lin and hello from the beautiful unceded territory of the Mi'kmaq of Nova Scotia, up here in northern Nova Scotia in Cumberland—Colchester. I'd like to ask all of you a couple of questions. I'm going to put them all into one question, and then if we have time and if each of you has an answer to let me know what you think, I'd be really appreciative. Today is World Environment Day, as you are probably aware, and that's a time for us to reflect on what we're doing as human beings to help turn things around to protect the natural environment.In spite of the urgency of the COVID-19 pandemic, we are seeing horrifying violence and indefensible acts of racism against racialized peoples right across North America. I know it happens, but it's being shown on TV screens more now, and there is more attention. Thank God it's coming to more attention. Let's do something about it.Also, the domestic violence, misogyny and racism that indigenous women experience daily, both on and off reserve, must surely affect the finances of indigenous communities and their ability to grow wealth. I am curious about the desire and intent of indigenous communities and businesses, including the witnesses here today, to put more attention and investment into the protection and well-being of women and girls and LGBTQ2S peoples, and also the interest and intent to invest and develop more green jobs, healthy natural products and alternative green energy projects. Who would like to go first? Perhaps it could be Jean Paul Gladu, please. COVID-19Environmental protectionIndigenous peoplesPandemicSexual minoritiesStatus of womenBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekJean PaulGladu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1235)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Ejesiak.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekKirtEjesiak//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1235)[English]Thank you very much. Mr. Jules, would you comment?KirtEjesiakC.T. (Manny)Jules//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1800)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My questions will be directed to Ms. Yalnizyan.Thank you so much for joining us today. I'll let you know that I was as enthralled by your testimony as my colleague Mr. Poilievre was by that of Mr. Cross.I'll pick up where the last questioning left off, on the cost of servicing this debt.Of course, it's something that's on everyone's mind. We don't want to be irresponsible, but I think one of the points you articulated very well was that there is a need to look at the benefits of some of these measures as well, and a need to recognize that in fact the virus created the need to respond. It effectively created the debt that we're dealing with.I want to give you the opportunity to talk about the cost of inaction had we not chosen to have the federal government assume this debt and had we left it to individual households and business owners. I can tell you from my experience in the constituency that the consequences would have been far greater because there would have been widespread bankruptcy of half the businesses in my community and kids without food on the table.I'm curious as to whether you can give some perspective on what the cost of inaction would have been if we had chosen not to have such an aggressive intervention in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.COVID-19Economic conditionsPandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeArmineYalnizyan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1805)[English]Thank you very much for that testimony.Mr. Chair, if I have a moment left, I'll try to sneak in two questions.Ms. Yalnizyan, you can eat up the rest of the time with your response, if that's okay.I'm incredibly worried about a generational gap, given the impact that this pandemic is having on young people. I think there's obviously a longer-term question we have to ask ourselves about repaying some of this debt. I look at the wage loss for young people and it's astonishing.I'm wondering if you can comment on the long-term impact of that phenomenon. If you have time to offer a quick piece of guidance on how we can better reflect the value of unpaid work, I would be grateful.COVID-19PandemicUnemployment and jobseekingYoung peopleArmineYalnizyanArmineYalnizyan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1230)[English]Mr. Chair, the pandemic has been difficult for people all across Canada, but in my home province of Nova Scotia, we've experienced so much heartache. For a place as friendly and beautiful as Nova Scotia to experience Canada's largest mass shooting is inconceivable. At a time when we would normally join our friends and family to mourn loved ones and fellow Nova Scotians, we were forced to stay apart, but that didn't stop us. We joined each other virtually in song and in spirit to mourn those we had lost. When we thought our hearts couldn't take anymore, we heard the news that a Cyclone helicopter out of 12 Wing Shearwater had crashed on its way back to HMCS Fredericton. Six lives were lost. Collectively, we mourned.Then we received news that one of Canada's iconic Snowbirds was down and that Captain Jennifer Casey from Halifax was lost in the crash. Together we mourned.We will not let tragedy take away our spirit and what it means to be Nova Scotian. “As sure as the sunrise, as sure as the sea, as sure as the wind in the trees, we rise again”.COVID-19Deaths and funeralsNova ScotiaPandemicStatements by MembersAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1605)[English]Thank you.I've been speaking to fishermen daily in Cape Breton, and our lobster harvesters are facing substantially reduced demand due to COVID-19. I've seen photos of literally piles of lobster that just won't be sold and will probably be wasted. Prices have dropped to about $4.25 per pound, the lowest price we've seen in a generation, and the market has been so weak that there have been quotas on the haul.I'd like to get a sense of DFO's line of sight on this issue. I'd also like to get a sense of whether or not a government intervention is being considered. We announced a food surplus purchase program. Is that something that we might leverage? This seems like exactly the sort of situation where a food surplus purchase program could play a role, and I'd like to get you to comment on that.COVID-19Fish and seafoodFisheries and fishersPandemicPrice determinationKenMcDonaldAvalonJean-GuyForgeron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1610)[English] Thank you for that.I'm glad you mentioned the storage facilities. I was on the phone this morning with one of the storage facilities and was trying to find remedies. No one wants to see crates of dead lobsters that could be feeding people, especially in some of these communities that have food insecurity.I'm wondering if there is any plan for us to increase storage capability or capacity in the short term. Is that something we're looking at as well?Cold storage facilitiesCOVID-19Fish and seafoodFisheries and fishersPandemicJean-GuyForgeronJean-GuyForgeron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1610)[English]I know I won't have a chance to get an answer on this question because I'm running short of time, but I wanted to just speak a bit about the communication and get a sense of having something written. How can DFO help these fishermen who are looking for help, who don't understand the programs, who have heard that we have put almost a half a billion dollars into the fishing industry, but they don't know how this works out? Is there any way that DFO can figure out how to communicate effectively with these fishermen in these areas that may not have the greatest Internet capabilities?I hope you have a plan for that, and I know you can't answer because we're out of time, but perhaps you could look at how we're doing for communications going forward. Thank you.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersGovernment programsInformation disseminationPandemicJean-GuyForgeronKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1730)[English]I want to give Mr. Daniels a chance to finish his speech. He ran out of time.If you could just conclude in a minute or less, so I can get to the questions, that would be appreciated.COVID-19PandemicBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekErnieDaniels//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1735)[English]Okay.I was pleased to see the announcement today that as part of our government's COVID-19 response, we will be supporting FNFA with $17.1 million for interest payment relief. I'd like to get a sense of FNFA's role since this crisis began, the opportunities it had with funding, and what opportunities exist that we need to be looking at into the recovery phase. COVID-19Economic recoveryFinancingFirst NationsFirst Nations Finance AuthorityPandemicErnieDanielsErnieDaniels//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1735)[English]How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?SteveBernaBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1735)[English]If you had 30 seconds to make your pitch on behalf of your organization for why to invest in the FNFA with some of the recovery money, what would be your best pitch?COVID-19Economic recoveryFinancingFirst NationsFirst Nations Finance AuthorityPandemicBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekErnieDaniels//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1740)[English]Thank you.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1810)[English]Hello. It's great to see all your beautiful faces here. Thank you so much for coming and for presenting to us today. I'm coming to you from the unceded territory of the Mi'kmaq here in Truro, Nova Scotia. I think it's wonderful that our first nations, indigenous, Innu people are forging ahead and making something of their own with businesses of all sorts.My colleague talked about sports. I come from the world of arts and culture, with 30 years in theatre as a professional actor, singer, writer, director, producer, you name it. Many of my Mi'kmaq and other indigenous friends are in the acting profession. How much of the money to these different businesses is going towards the creative economy? For every $7 that's spent by government, there is a return of $11. I would love to know from you, Mr. Daniels, what you are doing regarding the creative economy.COVID-19Cultural industryCulture and creativityFirst NationsPandemicBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekErnieDaniels//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1810)[English]What did you play?ErnieDanielsErnieDaniels//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1810)[English]Good for you. So you know how hard it can be to make a living as an artist.ErnieDanielsErnieDaniels//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1810)[English]I have a lot of friends—Graham Greene, Billy Merasty, Glen Gould from Nova Scotia, and many actors from across Canada—who are indigenous and who are making a great living at it. I try to say to governments at all levels that we need to invest in the creative economy in order to have creative people be able to make a living at what they love and what they're good at—to tell our stories. What better way is there to tell our stories than through music and theatre and art and all of the above, right?COVID-19Cultural industryCulture and creativityPandemicErnieDanielsErnieDaniels//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1810)[English]Excellent.Are there people who are putting money in and who are trying to invest in the creative economy and grow these businesses across Canada?COVID-19Cultural industryCulture and creativityFirst NationsPandemicErnieDanielsErnieDaniels//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1810)[English]Right.COVID-19Cultural industryCulture and creativityFirst NationsPandemicErnieDanielsErnieDaniels//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1810)[English]A television series would change that.COVID-19Cultural industryCulture and creativityFirst NationsPandemicErnieDanielsErnieDaniels//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1810)[English]It could be a television series or an animation series or a theatre series.Mr. Lehr is nodding. Do you mind if I go to him now? COVID-19Cultural industryCulture and creativityFirst NationsMétisPandemicErnieDanielsBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1815)[English]Good for you. You got it in again.Thank you. Wela'lin.HerbertLehrBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1815)[English]Well, there you go.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1855)[English]I'd like to thank the witnesses for joining us today. Their knowledge was great. It's sometimes difficult to understand the complexities of finance, but I thought all the witnesses did an excellent job. I have a recommendation that I'd like to put to the committee for consideration. One of the oversights, I think, is that in all of the witnesses we've called, we haven't called any indigenous youth. I think they're a large part of the population, the indigenous youth of Canada, and I know that many of the organizations out there have youth councils attached to them.I'm wondering if at some point we could hear from some of the youth about COVID and some of the issues they're dealing with, to see if it's something that's worthwhile listening to and to have our committee, maybe for the first time, hear from these youth councils about what they're going through. I just wanted to put that out there for discussion.COVID-19Indigenous peoplesPandemicYoung peopleBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1855)[English]That's fine.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1550)[English] Thank you so much.I will begin with our guests from Doctors Without borders. Thank you for the work you do throughout this pandemic and generally speaking. I really do appreciate it.I spent a very short amount of time working in the developing world and have quite a few friends who do now. I cannot claim to be an expert, but one of the things that experience brought to the fore for me when this pandemic first arrived is the graph, which I think you will recall, of the public health care system capacity like this, and the curve that we're all trying to flatten attempting to stay beneath that capacity line.One of the problems I can't understand has been getting so little attention is that the capacity line through huge parts of the world is at a much lower level. I worry greatly because the systemic supports may not be in place to deal with even a mild spike throughout the developing world, such that if this pandemic is not brought under control globally, we will effectively be making a decision to have the public health care systems fail across the global south and the broader developing world.Can you comment on what role you see Canada or our international institutions playing in supporting developing countries to ensure that they can manage an increase in cases that other countries with the capacity to deal with it seem to have managed to do.COVID-19Health services accessibilityInternational development and aidPandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeJoeBelliveau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1555)[English]Excellent. Thank you.I have limited time. I would love to ask two more questions of other witnesses, so thank you for the work you do. It is much appreciated.To our guests from Friends of Canadian Broadcasting, one of the things I have been concerned about over the past number of years, as we see the move toward the digital consumption of news, is not just the ousting of Canadian content but also the fact that we don't have as many reporters in small town council meetings, in school board meetings, in some jurisdictions around the world covering elections of local judges or other positions along those lines. In addition to the suggestions you made during your remarks, can you offer some guidance on what the government could do to help ensure that the quality of that local coverage continues to be supported and can survive this seeming takeover by digital giants?COVID-19Media and the pressPandemicJoeBelliveauDanielBernhard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1555)[English]Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be quick.Mr. Wood, it's good to see you again. Thank you for your kind comment during the introduction.I found the session that we conducted with the group of Ottawa business owners immensely valuable. It was one of a series of meetings that I've been having, and that I continue to have, to help inform how the government can continue to tinker with or potentially come up with new policies.You've pointed out that because the public health challenge may continue, you want some certainty that certain benefits would continue. I'm not curious about the specific policies—there's time for you to make a submission in writing afterwards on that, I would suggest—but in terms of the process of continuing to take in feedback, what is the right format to make sure that voices like yours and businesses are heard as we transition away from these emergency benefits toward a more permanent situation? How can we continue to engage the voices of business owners that have proven so valuable, that have allowed us to make changes like the $1,000 income allowance for the CERB, like the expansion of eligibility for the CEBA, like the extension of the wage subsidy from 10% to 75% and then to August 29? All of these changes came from the business community's telling us that these are the challenges they were facing. How can we continue that engagement to ensure that we can benefit from the real, lived experience of business owners?COVID-19PandemicPublic consultationSmall and medium-sized enterprisesWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan (South Shore—St. Margarets, Lib.): (1400)[English]Mr. Chair, since we found out about the landslide at Big Bar, our government has been extremely active in making sure that the salmon have a passage through. We know how critically important the salmon are to the Fraser River, as well as to the indigenous communities along the Fraser. We're working diligently to make sure that we get that passage cleared. So far, we've made significant progress, but we know there's more work that needs to be done. That's why we'll continue to work with indigenous communities and the province to make sure that these—COVID-19Fraser RiverGovernment contractsHabitat conservationOral questionsPacific salmonPandemicMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1405)[English]Mr. Chair, I want to thank my hon. colleague for the question.Invasive species are a real challenge for our waterways. We know that a lot more has to be done. We're working diligently to find the answers to deal with some of the problems we are seeing from invasive species. We are continuing to monitor situations in waterways. I am committed to making sure that I meet my commitments within my mandate letter, and I will have more to say on that soon.COVID-19Endangered speciesOral questionsPandemicMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—Shuswap//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan (South Shore—St. Margarets, Lib.): (1340)[English]Mr. Chair, I want to thank my colleague for the very good question.The Ontario inland fishers and the people in Ontario are eligible for other programs that are offered through the regional development agencies. We are going to make sure that no industry is left behind when it comes to our fisheries. We're making sure that we're addressing the concerns of inland fisheries as well as coastal fisheries. Those programs will be available to anyone who needs to apply through the RDAs.Canadian Seafood Stabilization FundCOVID-19Fish processing industryFisheries and fishersOral questionsPandemicDaveEppChatham-Kent—LeamingtonDaveEppChatham-Kent—Leamington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1340)[English]Mr. Chair, we're making sure that they have the same access to programs through the regional development agencies as there is through the seafood stabilization fund. We're making sure that everyone who is in need of support through the programs will be able to access it.Canadian Seafood Stabilization FundCOVID-19Fish processing industryFisheries and fishersOral questionsPandemicDaveEppChatham-Kent—LeamingtonDaveEppChatham-Kent—Leamington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1355)[English] Mr. Chair, we've recognized how hard the pandemic has hit our fishers and our fishing sector. We've made available a number of different measures. One of the things we're doing primarily is the harvesters' benefit, which allows all harvesters to take advantage of a benefit as well as a grant contribution to help them get through. We're also changing EI so they can now qualify for their EI benefits based on previous seasons, not this one, recognizing they're going to face challenges this year.The Freshwater Fish Marketing Board is a Crown corporation. We know it's been a very difficult time for them. We are continuing to look at ways we can address the challenges within the industry and we'll continue to work with them to make sure we are addressing those needs.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersFood supplyOral questionsPandemicNikiAshtonChurchill—Keewatinook AskiBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1155)[English]I think we are in challenging times. I've been looking at the papers today, and they're saying this is the worst lobster season to hit Cape Breton since the 1970s. I believe the point of this committee is to hear from stakeholders, to hear from people involved in the fisheries. I don't want to be hearing from just the minister and DFO; I want to hear from the people in my riding, my constituents. I want to hear what's going on across Canada on the fisheries. I really feel what we need to do is hear from people, hear from witnesses, and then make recommendations to the minister.I do support Mr. Johns' idea of twice a month. I wouldn't want to waste half of that by always having the same witness, the minister. I'd like to have that be stakeholders who can tell us what's going on in the fisheries, which allows us to make the recommendations we need to improve the fisheries in Canada. I just don't see that we need to always bring the minister in, and I don't believe I'll be supporting this motion of making sure that we have to hear from the minister every month.Thanks.Committee businessKenMcDonaldAvalonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1205)[English]Yes. I just want to be clear. I had said earlier that I would support Mr. Johns' motion for two meetings per month, and I'll stick with that. I think that's an appropriate time for us to get things done.Committee businessKenMcDonaldAvalonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1220)[English]That works for me, yes.KenMcDonaldAvalonKenMcDonaldAvalon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1455)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you, witnesses, for your testimony today. I'm going to start with the Chicken Farmers of Canada. In my riding of Kings—Hants, we have the most supply-managed farms east of Montreal. The poultry and dairy industries in particular are of very strong importance.Mr. Fontaine and Mr. Laliberté, Nick de Graaf is the second vice-chair of Chicken Farmers of Canada. We had a conversation this week and we talked about your industry. You talked about an 11% cut in production for July to August. Have you looked at what it could be afterward? Nick was saying it could be down to about 7%. Are things improving generally as we move along? COVID-19PandemicPoultry farmingSupply managementPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeBenoîtFontaine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1500)[English]It's definitely a testament to the strength of supply management and what that system means.I have one more question for you. We've talked about the cost to farmers of losing their bird population if they have to depopulate. Can that cost be recovered as part of the cost of production study? I know, like dairy, the poultry industry would consider the farmers' costs. Could that be incorporated into the cost of production down the line? COVID-19EuthanasiaPandemicPoultry farmingSupply managementBenoîtFontaineBenoîtFontaine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1500)[English]I appreciate that, but just quickly, because I want to move on to another group, do you have an estimate of what depopulation has cost farmers and producers?COVID-19EuthanasiaPandemicPoultry farmingBenoîtFontaineBenoîtFontaine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1500)[English]Thank you very much.I want to turn to the Grain Growers of Canada. Mr. Nielsen, you're from Olds, and I know, being a junior hockey player, the Olds Grizzlys are a long-time franchise. Ms. Gowriluk, you talked about getting rid of the 85% reference margin. For my benefit, is that the cap or do you mean we should be supplying up to 100% of the 85% reference margin? Business Risk Management programsCOVID-19Grain and grain growingPandemicBenoîtFontaineErinGowriluk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1500)[English]The Grain Farmers of Ontario have put out certain messaging on their concerns about empty shelves in grocery stores. Is that something you as an organization expect?COVID-19Food supplyGrain and grain growingPandemicErinGowrilukErinGowriluk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1500)[English]We hear a lot about business risk management and AgriStability. Of course, this was a program that was cut back in 2013. Is that something that right since 2013, Grain Growers of Canada pushed the government not to do? Did it continue this advocacy all along in terms of that changing from when the Conservative government cut this program?AgriStability ProgramCOVID-19Grain and grain growingPandemicErinGowrilukErinGowriluk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1500)[English]Thank you very much.ErinGowrilukPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1155)[English]Thank you. Ms. Bull, I want to talk a little about some of the barriers to on-reserve businesses. I've received calls from local bands that I represent about general loss of own-source revenue from gaming, tobacco and fishing. For all these reasons, bands were looking to the government for help with the wage subsidy.I know our government included indigenous government-owned corporations that are carrying on a business, as well as eligible partnerships with indigenous governments. Have you seen the impact of this policy shift on the ground yet?Canada Emergency Wage SubsidyCOVID-19Income and wagesIndigenous peoplesIndigenous reservesPandemicSmall and medium-sized enterprisesBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekTabathaBull//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1200)[English] Can you speak a little bit about the difference on that? I've had that same question from some bands that asked about this business or that business. How has it been communicating what is eligible and what hasn't been? Are you getting a lot of questions on this?Canada Emergency Wage SubsidyCOVID-19Income and wagesIndigenous peoplesIndigenous reservesPandemicSmall and medium-sized enterprisesTabathaBullTabathaBull//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1200)[English]I just want to pivot. I know we are all looking at COVID and still trying to find the gaps and making sure that we leave no one behind, but in terms of the next phase of recovery, what are some of the things our government can do? What are you recommending to help indigenous businesses across Canada? On and off reserve, what are some of the key things we need to do during the recovery phase to make sure we are not leaving small or large indigenous businesses behind?COVID-19Indigenous peoplesPandemicSmall and medium-sized enterprisesTabathaBullTabathaBull//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1200)[English]How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?TabathaBullBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1200)[English]Okay, I'll just add a question in terms of communication. I was at a store on the reserve yesterday. I went in, and they were asking me questions about programming and things like that. Is there any place that people on reserve can go to see where these programs exist? If so, how?COVID-19Government assistanceIndigenous peoplesIndigenous reservesPandemicSmall and medium-sized enterprisesBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekTabathaBull//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1210)[English] Thank you very much.Greetings from the unceded territory of the Mi'kmaq here in Nova Scotia. Millbrook First Nation is right nearby. It's really good to hear all of you. Thank you so much for your presentations.This morning the Prime Minister announced another $650 million to support first nations, Inuit and Métis communities, which I was very excited to hear. In particular, he was talking about health care, income support and new shelters for women, which is another issue that I am very passionate about, especially as the vice-chair of the women's caucus.He mentioned that $285 million of this new funding would go to public health, and it includes procurement, which, Ms. Bull, you mentioned. Here in Truro, for instance, we have an old factory, the Stanfield's factory. It's a family-owned factory. It's over 100 years old, and it has been making underwear for that long. Stanfield's underwear is pretty famous.Anyway, it had to close down because of the pandemic. Then it made an offer to government that it could make plastic hospital gowns and that it could work with the plastic factory here, which is also having trouble because of COVID. Now the two factories are working together to make disposable hospital gowns for PPE.What kinds of businesses do you suggest, Ms. Bull? What kinds of things are there available that we can take forward, and that you can bring forward, and that, as Ms. Damoff mentioned, we would be happy to bring forward to government? It would be great to get first nations indigenous people helping with this very important project.COVID-19Government contractsIndigenous peoplesPandemicSmall and medium-sized enterprisesBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekTabathaBull//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1210)[English]Absolutely. I totally agree with you. It is the smaller businesses and the community-run businesses that really are the backbone of all of our little communities. I live here in rural Nova Scotia, and they are very important.It's unfortunate about the taxation issue in the beginning when funding was rolled out, but I believe we were running by the seat of our pants in a way. We were trying to come up with new ideas on the fly to try to help everybody who was falling through the cracks. Every time we heard about someone else who didn't quite fit the mandate, we then rolled it out for them. It has been an emergency situation, as you well know.I think that we are really trying now to take into consideration everybody across Canada. Not everybody is going to fit every single mandate, but we're trying our very best to help as many people as possible.Thank you so much for your work. If you do want to reach out to either Ms. Damoff or myself, we would be happy to help you take forward ideas to the government about procurement or anything else.COVID-19PandemicTabathaBullTabathaBull//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1210)[English]Is that—TabathaBullBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1210)[English]I will just leave it at that for now. If any of the other gentlemen would like to reach out to us, please find my email. It's very easy to find. I would be happy to take forward your suggestions.Thank you.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1245)[English]I just thought the discussion around procurement was a very interesting one and this 5% as a [Technical difficulty--Editor]. Can you elaborate about what it would mean to first nations, what it would mean to communities, if we could increase that?COVID-19Government contractsIndigenous peoplesPandemicSmall and medium-sized enterprisesBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekShanninMetatawabin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1245)[English]Whoever wants to speak to it. I was listening to the earlier discussion and I think it was a great point.ShanninMetatawabinShanninMetatawabin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1250)[English]Can either of you speak to what the numbers look like on procurement on reserve? I know that some communities have capacity with their own development companies and others don't across Canada. I'm just wondering if you have any knowledge of research that would say that by increasing procurement everywhere, it would increase capacity on reserve as well.COVID-19Government contractsIndigenous peoplesIndigenous reservesPandemicSmall and medium-sized enterprisesShanninMetatawabinTabathaBull//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1250)[English] During COVID, we've seen a lot of different programs based on trying to make sure that businesses are able to access capital through interest-free loans, through forgivable loans. What opportunities are there for first nation businesses in how we move forward? Are some of these loans something that would be of benefit to indigenous business? What is the actual capacity of indigenous businesses right now to borrow at reduced rates?COVID-19Indigenous peoplesLoansPandemicSmall and medium-sized enterprisesShanninMetatawabinBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1625)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.I'll start with a question for Mr. Crothers. I hope to ask two or three questions if possible, if time allows. I'll go back to Mr. Julian's question around the Trans Mountain pipeline and your comment that you could see that our colleague Ms. Stubbs disagreed. I don't think we should be afraid of disagreement. I think it's terrific. Maybe that's the former litigator in me coming out, but our democracy is built upon it. One of the words you threw out during your testimony, Mr. Crothers, was not “disagreement” but “polarization”, and your hesitancy towards any kind of pivot to a green recovery before we exit this period of polarization. One thing I'm deeply concerned about on this issue of polarization is that we sometimes can't see the forest for the trees. Oftentimes, a project becomes a lightning rod for controversy, because the advocates for a cleaner environment don't have faith that the big picture is taken care of, so they feel the need to defend the environment against a specific project. On the other side of the equation, I hear advocates of the energy sector sticking their neck out, sometimes at risk to reputation, saying that this single project isn't going to tip the balance, so we can't let that get in the way. I find we are unable to find common ground, whereas I think most people I have spoken to in my life, I daresay, would agree that we want to find a way to protect our environment, meet our climate change goals and still develop the economy.I'm wondering what you think can be done to leave polarization behind so that we can enter a period where we're actually advancing environmental protections. To me, that means meeting our Paris Agreement targets specifically. I'll be the first to say that we've done a lot and we should do more, but what do you think we can do that would give Canadians faith that not every project must be stopped, as long as we're pursuing the bigger picture of compliance with our Paris Agreement targets and other environmental protections?COVID-19Environmental protectionPandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMichaelCrothers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1625)[English]I'll quickly ask the same question of our guests from Équiterre. Thank you for your advocacy on behalf of our environment.What is the best thing we can do? You mentioned accountability. Is this a national parliamentary climate emissions officer? Is this some kind of public reporting? Is it community-level discussions from municipalities or taking on climate change coordinators? What does this accountability look like that would give Canadians faith that the big picture is taken care of so that we need not need go to war on every single project? Is there no solution along those lines?Climate change and global warmingCOVID-19PandemicMichaelCrothersCarolineBrouillette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1630)[English]Thank you. It will be quick. To our guests from the Mining Association of Canada, I know you have been making some noise around the importance of critical minerals, perhaps in a pre-COVID environment in a lot of ways. I assume that, like every other sector, you feel either the supply or demand shock that is going through the entire economy right now. I'm worried about our inability to manufacture certain kinds of projects that were really demonstrating opportunities for growth. I'm curious if you can highlight for us what challenges there are in the critical minerals sector and whether there is something we need to do during this public health emergency to ensure that the supply chain remains intact for those critical minerals.COVID-19Mining industryPandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeBrendanMarshall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1855)[English]Thanks so much, Mr. Chair.I want to dig in a little bit about the timing of any sort of fiscal update that could be provided. I know it has come up a few times on this committee.One of the things I struggle with greatly is trying to predict anything too far into the future, given the conditions we're in. We see in New Brunswick the current story in the news about an individual who crossed the border into Quebec and failed to self-isolate and had contact with over 150 people. It's resulted in a retraction of some of the loosened restrictions that part of the province has experienced. Obviously, severe public health measures that are put in place can restrict economic activity. I've found that some of the regular updates based on real data, which you've been providing periodically through this committee, have been somewhat helpful, to get that real-time transparency. I'm curious as to what kind of indicators you're going to be looking for in the community before you think we're going to have a handle on what we know the world looks like, so that any kind of fiscal update will have reliable information that Canadians can depend upon.COVID-19Economic conditionsPandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1855)[English]I think Ms. McDermott would be best positioned to answer that.WayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1900)[English] Thank you for that.I just have a quick question on some of the work the Minister of Middle Class Prosperity has been doing around quality-of-life indicators. I would have loved to have the opportunity to ask the minister when she was here earlier.One of the things I'm having a hard time with, for some members of my community, is that everybody is anxious to see the economic recovery. Of course, we're not through the emergency yet. I think there's a really unique opportunity in front of us.If we are to believe some of the polling data from firms that make their data publicly available, a significant majority of Canadians are expecting some kind of really serious social and economic reforms coming out of this crisis. One of things that I think are going to be essential will be to understand what we're measuring if we're hoping to achieve success. I think it would be easy to try to restore the status quo that existed pre-COVID. I think if we want to turn our imagination on, we can start realizing that maybe GDP and unemployment are not the only things we can measure and that we should turn our minds to things like poverty reduction, access to a clean environment, access to primary care, or whatever it may be.I'm curious as to whether you think we have an opportunity to accelerate the minister's mandate letter item about developing quality-of-life indicators in a timely way so we could actually use some of the work that's being done to help guide the economic recovery once the time is right. COVID-19PandemicQuality of lifeAlisonMcDermottWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1655)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you to all the witnesses for their testimony. I'm going to start with the mushroom farmers. Certainly, from Mr. Ellis's question, it sounds as though the industry has done quite well in the last 10 years. Is this a largely labour-intensive industry? COVID-19Mushroom-growingPandemicPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeRyanKoeslag//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1655)[English]I was pleased to hear that, for a large part, labour uncertainty hasn't been an issue for your industry. I think Ms. Krayden might have said it was 50 temporary foreign workers, at least, who were not available at the start of the pandemic. Is that correct? COVID-19Foreign workersMushroom-growingPandemicRyanKoeslagRyanKoeslag//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1655)[English]As it relates to temporary foreign workers, I heard that 50 temporary foreign workers were outside the country.Ms. Krayden, can you confirm that?COVID-19Foreign workersMushroom-growingPandemicRyanKoeslagJanetKrayden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1655)[English]I appreciate that, and I don't mean to cut you off, but I want to keep moving.What about the margins in the mushroom industry? Is this a high value margin product? Is it low margin? Just respond as quickly as you can.COVID-19Mushroom-growingPandemicProfitsJanetKraydenRyanKoeslag//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1655)[English]Janet, in terms of the margins, is this a low-margin or high-margin industry? Maybe it depends on the product.COVID-19Mushroom-growingPandemicProfitsRyanKoeslagJanetKrayden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1655)[English]That would be very helpful.We heard about the additional cost. Has this created a situation where farmers are losing money, or is it just cutting into their existing margins?COVID-19Mushroom-growingPandemicWorkplace health and safetyJanetKraydenJanetKrayden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1655)[English]I appreciate that.RyanKoeslagJanetKrayden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1655)[English]I want to go to the comment that was made about the Olympic average, or the weighted average. You said we should just get rid of that. Mr. Koeslag, could you explain quickly, in about 20 seconds, what you would see as an alternative? Application processCOVID-19Government assistancePandemicJanetKraydenRyanKoeslag//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1700)[English] I certainly appreciate the testimony that was given.Mr. Koeslag, you said at one point that there have been no programs available, but I want to note the fact that there's the emergency business account that was available to many farmers, and I assume that includes the mushroom industry. There's also the wage subsidy, Farm Credit Canada, the BCAP and AgriInvest, which I know is available. I know there are challenges, but I took a bit of exception to the fact that none of our programs have been able to be offered.I want to take my comments over to Mr. Forth, if I could.Ken, Charlie Keddy is in my riding. He's someone who speaks highly about your leadership. I know this was a challenging time, so first of all, thank you to farms for their continued work to get workers into the country. You mentioned the 86.5%, and that's a number that correlates with what the minister told our committee the last time she was here. Is it fair to say that most of the challenges you face in terms of bringing workers in are actually in the countries of origin, in terms of their countries opening airspace or perhaps even having their own processing? Can you explain that?COVID-19Foreign workersPandemicRyanKoeslagKenForth//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1700)[English] Thank you, Mr. Forth, and thank you, Chair.KenForthPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1745)[English]I want to thank all of you folks for being here today.Mr. Sauvé, MP Jeneroux touched on the international aid topic a bit. I think many of us can agree that international aid is important, and especially during a health crisis like this. I'm interested in your views on why Canada ought to provide equipment and supplies to other countries when they are experiencing health emergencies. Doing that helps that country; it helps Canada and it helps the world. I'm interested in your thoughts on why we do that and whether we should continue to do that.COVID-19International development and aidMedical and assistive devicesPandemicAngelaMacDougallConradSauvé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1750)[English]I'm sticking with you, Mr. Sauvé. You talked about the first days of the outbreak and how you've been responding. You've been on the ground since the first days, and you talked about capacity. It seems to me that the Canadian Red Cross is always there, or it's everywhere. In your opening remarks you talked about building stronger capacity. Are you talking about building stronger capacity for COVID for phase one, phase two, phase three or whatever, or are you just talking about the Canadian Red Cross wanting to build stronger capacity? Maybe you can also touch on what those early days looked like. Are you talking early days domestically here in Canada or were you paying strict attention to what was going on with the pandemic in those days?COVID-19Emergency preparednessPandemicConradSauvéConradSauvé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1820)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Hello, colleagues.To the witnesses, you have my sincere appreciation for the work you do on a daily basis.I've had the opportunity to study leadership and I taught it at the University of Calgary for a couple of years. Often we would hit a chapter called “servant leadership”. You folks, every one of you, and your colleagues are the embodiment of that. So thank you very much for your servant leadership in everything that you do.I have two questions. The first one is for Mr. Sauvé from the Red Cross.In my riding of Cape Breton—Canso, I often hear from first nations chiefs and leaders, Mi’kmaq leaders and chiefs, about what more can be done from a federal government perspective to support community development in first nations across Cape Breton and northeastern Nova Scotia.I know you folks are in partnership with Indigenous Services Canada and you're working with indigenous communities across the country to provide support to communities in need. I'm interested in learning more about the work you're doing. Perhaps you can unpack that a bit and go a little deeper in terms of the work you're doing in first nations communities. How many communities have you been able to help across the country during COVID?COVID-19Health and social servicesIndigenous peoplesPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamConradSauvé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1820)[English] You speak of training. Can you give us a little more detail as to what areas of training specifically? I'm very curious about that.COVID-19Health and social servicesIndigenous peoplesPandemicConradSauvéConradSauvé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1820)[English]I'm glad to see you're looking at developing capacity in the communities, in collaboration with first nations communities, considering we're perhaps looking at a second and a third wave. I appreciate that.Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?COVID-19Health and social servicesIndigenous peoplesPandemicConradSauvéRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1820)[English]Okay. Ms. York, given that those experiencing homelessness don't have access to the same amenities such as Internet and cable, how do we ensure they know how to recognize the signs and symptoms of COVID-19? How can we raise awareness and reach those experiencing homelessness in other ways, perhaps looking at this from an urban and a rural lens? In urban often it's visible, in rural it's not, but it's still very prevalent.COVID-19Homelessness and homelessPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamFionaYork//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1825)[English]Thank you.FionaYorkRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88333DarrellSamsonDarrell-SamsonSackville—Preston—ChezzetcookLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/SamsonDarrell_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darrell Samson (Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, Lib.): (1205)[English]Good afternoon, everyone. It's an honour to be presenting an S. O. 31.This spring has been a difficult one for Nova Scotia and the communities of Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook. While residents have banded together to tackle the challenges presented by COVID-19, we have also had to mourn the passing of three remarkable local women: RCMP Constable Heidi Stevenson, well known by many in Cole Harbour and the surrounding areas; our own Sub-Lieutenant Abbigail Cowbrough, who was based out of 12 Wing Shearwater; and Captain Jenn Casey of the Canadian Forces Snowbirds.All three women died in the line of duty in separate tragic events while serving our country. These three brave women, who served with honour on land, at sea and in the air, represent the absolute best of us. Heidi, Abbigail and Jenn were inspirational and will not be forgotten.Thank you.Casey, JenniferCOVID-19Cowbrough, AbbigailDeaths and funeralsNova ScotiaPandemicStatements by MembersStevenson, HeidiAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan (Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard): (1345)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to thank my colleague for his comments with regard to the tragic accident off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador, where we saw the loss of life in a fishing accident. Of course, as coastal people, we are all in solidarity with the people of Newfoundland right now.We know that the fish and seafood sector has taken extreme hits because of COVID-19. We're working diligently to make sure we support the industry as best we can. We have made available over half a billion dollars to processors and harvesters to make sure they can weather this storm. We have made sure that the harvesters are able to access the harvester benefit as well as the grant, recognizing the unique nature of their business and how they are not able to access some of our other programs.We are continuing to monitor what is happening in the industry. We will continue to make sure we do everything we can to support the fish and seafood sector.COVID-19Fisheries and fishersOral questionsPandemicChrisd'EntremontWest NovaChrisd'EntremontWest Nova//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1345)[English]Mr. Chair, we know that this is a very challenging season for our harvesters. We also know that because of the decline in markets, we've had to make accommodations for the processing sector in order to help them be better able to support the harvesters. We have put in $62.5 million, which is allowing the processors to increase capacity in their refrigeration and freezers so that they will continue to be able to purchase product.As I said earlier, we will continue to monitor the situation and make sure we do everything possible to support our harvesters. This is a very difficult—COVID-19Fisheries and fishersOral questionsPandemicChrisd'EntremontWest NovaBruceStantonSimcoe North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1820)[English]Thank you very much. I'm coming to you today from the unceded territory of the Mi'kmaq in Nova Scotia. Hello. It's nice to see all of you. Thank you so much for your incredible presentations. I am so deeply sorry that your nations are concerned about and going through so many different things. However, at this point I'm very glad to see that there have not been too many illnesses yet on reserve. I really hope that the second and third waves don't hit you at all. We've seen what diseases like this can do to first nations people and Inuit people, and we don't want this to ever happen now, in this day and age.On May 15, we had a presentation at this committee from Ms. Hilda Anderson-Pyrz, the co-chair of the missing and murdered women coalition of Manitoba. She told our committee that youth mental health is a critical area requiring action, particularly since many indigenous communities were dealing with mental health crises prior to the pandemic. We also had Ms. Redvers, who is the co-founder and executive director of the youth support organization We Matter. She explained to us that indigenous youth are finding new ways to remain connected online. However, she noted an increase in anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, self-harm and hopelessness, and she said the youth are turning to unhealthy coping mechanisms. I would like to ask if somebody can explain to me how the current pandemic is affecting the youth in your communities and what we can do, what the government can do in the long term, to address the mental health crises affecting many indigenous communities and their youth. Could we please start with Mr. Therrien Pinette? I'd also like to hear from Dr. Vollant and Madam Meawasige, if possible. COVID-19First NationsMental healthPandemicYoung peopleBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekJean-ClaudeTherrien Pinette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1825)[English]I'm sorry. I would love to hear from every single one of you. We can continue this conversation. BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1845)[English]I just want to thank all of the participants and witnesses that we've had today for sharing their stories with us. I know that you've made it pretty clear that, when we talk about returning to normal, normal for first nations communities and first nations reserves isn't the normal that we know in Canada in many places. A lot of times we overlook some of the aspects.Jean-Claude, you and I were on the AFN youth council, and I want to give you some time to talk about some of the challenges that the youth in indigenous communities are seeing. If Jean-Claude leaves any time, I'd also like to ask Ms. Meawasige to comment on what the challenges are that youth are going through. If there's not time, please submit something in writing so that we can make recommendations and be proactive, not reactive.Jean-Claude.COVID-19First NationsPandemicYoung peopleBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekJean-ClaudeTherrien Pinette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1620)[English]Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.I'll start with a question that I'll pitch to both our transit and aviation witnesses.One of the things that have been keeping me up at night is figuring out how quickly we're going to be able to safely reintroduce Canadians to their communities and the way that we move around. Short of a vaccine, what is it in your mind that is going to most put Canadians in a mindset where they feel safe to travel, whether it's by bus or by plane? How can the federal government allocate its resources to encourage people to take part in ordinary transportation or transit activities, knowing that they can do so without risk of becoming sick?I'll go to the Canadian Urban Transit Association first and to Mr. McKenna second.COVID-19PandemicPublic transitWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMarcoD'Angelo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1620)[English]I know we also have a guest from London on behalf of the transit organization. Before we go to Mr. McKenna, perhaps I'll give her an opportunity to comment.MarcoD'AngeloKellyPaleczny//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1620)[English]Mr. McKenna, I'm curious about your sector. When it comes to air travel, obviously it's taken a significant hit. Before there is that long-term recovery for the sector, Canadians are going to have to feel safe to board a plane. What's your advice for the sector, and how can the federal government play a role in encouraging Canadians to travel safely?Air transportationCOVID-19PandemicKellyPalecznyJohnMcKenna//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1620)[English]Mr. D'Angelo, you talked a little bit during your opening remarks about the jurisdictional divide and not wanting that to get in the way of achieving progress. I'm not afraid to take part in discussions around transit. I mean, anybody who looks at the past four years will see that we had the largest investment in the history of public transit in Canada. In our spending and investments to date, there has always been a partnership with the provinces. I'm curious, though; you do want to see federal leadership. Can you describe to me what you think the appropriate role is for the provinces, which do ordinarily have jurisdiction over transit organizations?COVID-19Federal-provincial-territorial relationsPandemicPublic transitJohnMcKennaMarcoD'Angelo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1625)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. That's my time.MarcoD'AngeloWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1500)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Thank you so much to all of you brilliant minds for being here today and for sharing just a little bit of your wealth of knowledge.Dr. Wright, in your conversation with MP Van Bynen, you talked a little about how the COVID-19 pandemic could contribute to the rise of AMR. On the other side of that coin, are there any aspects of the response to the pandemic, such as increased infection prevention or control measures in hospitals and in other settings, that might help to combat the rise of AMR?Antimicrobial resistanceCOVID-19Medical researchPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamGerryWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1505)[English]Well, I'll tell you, I'm a politician, and I haven't shaken a hand since March 11. So you 're absolutely right.Sticking with the hypothetical, Dr. Wright, let's say the worst was to happen and the virus never goes away. It becomes endemic in our communities. How would you change how people prepare for a second or third wave? If hand sanitizers create a future risk, what would you recommend to keep our citizens safe? Antimicrobial resistanceCOVID-19Medical researchPandemicGerryWrightGerryWright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1505)[English] Dr. Mossman, your research is fascinating. Congratulations on your grant. At what stage are you in your research right now? I don't think you had an opportunity to fill us in on where you are today.COVID-19Medical researchPandemicGerryWrightKarenMossman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1505)[English]Last week, we had Canada's chief science adviser, Dr. Mona Nemer, at our committee. She talked about the importance of promoting open science.Dr. Mossman, you've talked a bit about that, but I'll go to anyone else who would like to answer. What specific steps have researchers or universities taken in order to share that data?COVID-19Data sharingMedical researchPandemicKarenMossmanKarenMossman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1505)[English]That would be a big change since 2003 with SARS, right?COVID-19Data sharingMedical researchPandemicKarenMossmanKarenMossman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1530)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Hello, colleagues.I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today.With each of our committee meetings, I'm learning so much about the science behind the virus and the research being done across the country. It's really interesting to hear directly from the experts.My question is going to be for everyone. Maybe we can go around the horn, as they say. I'm curious to unpack what more you think we could be doing as a federal government to promote open science and data sharing between organizations to fight this virus together. It could be between organizations. It could be among different levels of governments and organizations. We know that it's more money. We've established that, which is great. It's more investment. I wonder if we can unpack what things we could be doing better right now and as we approach a second wave of COVID or perhaps a third.Someone feel free to start, and then we'll just rotate around the square.COVID-19Data sharingMedical researchPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamCarolineQuach-Thanh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1535)[English]You're suggesting common literacy, a central repository.COVID-19Data sharingMedical researchPandemicCarolineQuach-ThanhCarolineQuach-Thanh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1535)[English]That's great.Dr. Tremblay, do you want to chime in?CarolineQuach-ThanhCécileTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1535)[English] Thank you, Dr. Tremblay.Dr. Mossman.CécileTremblayKarenMossman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1535)[English]It's longer-term funding, then, and not necessarily just focused on project by project?COVID-19Data sharingMedical researchPandemicKarenMossmanKarenMossman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1535)[English]I've worked at a university. I don't know what you're talking about when you talk about loud voices in university, but thank you.I'm sorry that I didn't get to you, Dr. Wright, but I appreciate your time. Thank you.KarenMossmanRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1525)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to our witnesses for their participation today in the committee.I want to start by giving a little bit of context. In my riding of Kings—Hants, we have an important agricultural sector. It's the underpinning of the local economy. Really, the minister alluded to it but perhaps I'll ask you, Louis. As I understand it, you're the director of operations within the department. From my understanding, we as a government have basically put most barriers or any barriers at all out of the way, but in terms of bringing the workers in, we are seeing challenges in some of the countries of origin where these workers are coming from. Can you explain some of the challenges in countries such as Mexico, Guatemala and others that you're seeing in terms of the actual logistics of just getting these workers into the country?COVID-19Farming and farmersForeign workersPandemicPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeLouisDumas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1530)[English]I appreciate that insight. I know, in speaking with my farmers locally and as you've alluded, that we've tried to move mountains, at least domestically. Sometimes that's just the nature of a global pandemic. Ms. Rood mentioned that in the seasonal agricultural worker program, SAWP, we've received only 78% of the workers. I think those numbers are pretty strong, all things considered. It was discussed in the committee, but for the benefit of those who might be watching and those tuning in to our committee proceedings, perhaps Mr. Dumas or Ms. Jarvis can clarify that it's not the Government of Canada that's bringing these workers here, but organizations such as F.A.R.M.S. Canada, or FERME in Quebec, and others that work with industry to get the workers here. Sometimes it says, “we as a government”, but really this is private industry bringing them in. We're just creating the channels to make sure that they're processed. Is that correct?COVID-19Farming and farmersForeign workersPandemicLouisDumasLouisDumas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1530)[English]I appreciate that. Certainly we know the logistical challenges of travel at this point.My next question, quickly, is to Mr. Wallace on the economic and social development side.Ms. Rood talked about audits, and I know that would be under the purview of Service Canada, but she talked about some of the social distancing rules. My understanding is that is 100% determined by the provincial governments and their own public health authorities. Obviously, we set guidelines, but it's the provinces that actually have the ability to influence. Is that correct?COVID-19Foreign workersPandemicProvincial jurisdictionWorkplace health and safetyLouisDumasJonathanWallace//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1550)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I would like to move a motion that I believe has the support of the committee: That, in relation to the study of the Canadian response to the COVID-19 pandemic, the Chair, in consultation with the clerks and analysts, assemble panels in preparation for the meeting scheduled for Friday, May 29, 2020; and that, to the extent possible, these panels consist of witnesses suggested by the recognized parties in the following sectors: poultry and eggs, the grain sector, and the meat processing sector.That's it, Mr. Chair.I hope my French teacher will be proud of me.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1555)[English]We had a conversation, before this committee here today, about those subjects. Obviously the motion was in French. I again I think the focus would be on the certain subjects we all agreed would be beneficial to touch upon. Whether or not the it read in French so specifically that we would absolutely have to do that.... I'd be happy to accept Mr. Barlow's motion that it would not be guaranteed, but in the spirit of those subjects, we would ask that the analysts and you, Mr. Chair, move forward on that basis. We're asking that, assuming we will have more details on Monday about whether or not this committee is going to be extended.John, is that kind of where your head was on that?Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeJohnBarlowFoothills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1600)[English]Mr. Chair, do we have a record right now? Could I read something into the record and see if it would appease Mr. Barlow? Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1600)[English]Basically, given that there is some uncertainty as to whether or not the committee will continue beyond May 29, which is our last scheduled meeting, my motion would be that, if this committee finds out it is going to be extended, the chair of the committee, in consultation with the analysts and the clerk, be willing to have witnesses available in, not limited to but including, the following commodity areas for subsequent meetings: chicken and eggs, the grain sector, the meat processing sector, and—following May 29, if we are afforded that opportunity—small farms and smaller agri-food businesses, apiculture and the equine industry, and perhaps witnesses who could speak to the ability to have food manufacturing in the regions.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1605)[English]Yes, it was just to try to help the clerk. That was the only reason this motion was put forward. As we discussed in our informal conversation outside this committee, I would move that, on Friday, May 29, the panel consist of, and the clerk, along with the analysts and the chair, work to have representatives from the chicken and the egg sector, along with grains and the meat processors.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakePatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1605)[English]Fair enough. I was working with the clerk to make sure they had the information based on what we talked about.However, to your point, we can talk about it on Monday.Committee businessCOVID-19PandemicJohnBarlowFoothillsPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1450)[English]I'm not playing my guitar. They're in the other room, Mr. Chair. I've been consistent with not playing my guitar while on committee, thank you very much.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1450)[English]I would like to give Ghislain the opportunity to answer the question from my colleague, Mr. Viersen. We're noticing that communities are taking jurisdiction to keep their communities safe through the bylaws that are within the Indian Act.How are they able to enforce that? Continue your thought process, please.COVID-19First NationsIndigenous self-governmentPandemicProvince of QuebecPublic healthBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekGhislainPicard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1450)[English]Thank you, Ghislain.You also spoke about government and first nations working together to solve some of these problems. I'm wondering about best practices. I also want to reflect on the fact that two days ago, Lenore Zann and I were part of an MPs and chiefs discussion to collaborate and work together. In this new reality of Zoom, are the Quebec chiefs also meeting through Zoom? Are all communities able to access the Internet and Zoom or web conferencing to help make these discussions...? Everyone used to travel. Now we're able to arrange an hour's video conference.Is this an effective way of communicating? Do you find it's getting the job done in Quebec? COVID-19First NationsPandemicProvince of QuebecVideoconferencesGhislainPicardGhislainPicard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1455)[English]How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?GhislainPicardBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1455)[English]I wonder if you could speak a little about some of the mental health challenges going on in Quebec. We know that mental health is an issue in indigenous communities during regular times, but how about during COVID? Have you seen an increase in the need for mental health services? COVID-19First NationsMental healthPandemicProvince of QuebecBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekGhislainPicard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1545)[English]Thank you very much. I'd like to share my time with Pam Damoff, because we might be running out of time. First of all, I'd like to say thank you so much to all of the witnesses. It has been very, very interesting testimony. I'd like to ask Chief Belleau a question. I would like to acknowledge your important advocacy work for residential school survivors. Here in Nova Scotia, in the land of the Mi'kmaq, it has been a big problem, as you probably know. I want to say thank you, Wela'lin, from the bottom of my heart for all your work on that terrible issue. Also mentioning that domestic violence against women is rising is so important. I don't have time to ask about it, but I do want to ask about addictions and substance abuse. We know they aren't going to disappear overnight just because COVID-19 has come on our horizon. It's a problem for many Canadians, not just first nations people. What is the First Nations Health Council doing in conjunction with the Government of British Columbia to address this issue during COVID-19?COVID-19Drugs and alcoholFirst NationsMental healthPandemicBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekCharleneBelleau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1550)[English]Yes, please. Madam Damoff can take the next one.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekPamDamoffOakville North—Burlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1525)[English]Excellent. Thanks so much, Mr. Chair.Thank you, Minister, for joining us, and thank you for the work that you have been doing over the past number of weeks and months to help businesses survive this unprecedented pandemic that is causing a disruption in everyone's lives.Two of the most important words that I think I heard in your opening remarks were “we heard”. You referred to the barbers that you have listened to, some folks working on farms, and other examples. I think that it's important to reflect on the number of extraordinary changes that have been made, often after an initial policy announcement has been done.My experience in the past few years is that we put a lot of effort into consultation on the front end, tried to land a policy, and weren't particularly flexible after we completed consultation with stakeholders. I have been feeling refreshed at the willingness of the government to listen and shift course where it sees problems that have been highlighted.I want to see if you can talk about the importance of this exercise in listening and how it's helped develop the policies, particularly when I look at big things like creating a 75% wage subsidy that was previously 10%, and at small things like extending access to those barbers who don't necessarily meet the payroll threshold or allowing credit unions to get money to communities through CEBA. There are probably dozens of changes that I could point to as examples. I want to get your perspective on what it's like to have to iterate as we go through, based on the feedback that we're hearing directly from Canadians who have been affected by this pandemic and who are looking for help from the federal government.COVID-19Government programsPandemicPublic consultationWayneEasterHon.MalpequeMaryNgHon.Markham—Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1530)[English]Thank you, Minister. I appreciate that. I have two quick plugs before my second question. There are two things I continue to hear. First, businesses are concerned about the uncertainty, wondering whether some of these benefits will be extended if it becomes necessary. Second, there are still some very small businesses that may not have $40,000 in expenses or a business account, but would like some kind of support. They don't necessarily need the same level of support the CEBA provides, but are looking for some kind of assistance to help with their expenses. This is my second and final question. When I talk to female entrepreneurs, I am hearing with an astonishing level of frequency about particular concerns they're facing. I'll ask you to comment on the support we've put in place for them, and make a plug to deal specifically with the issue of child care. I can't tell you the number of women-owned businesses and agricultural producers who have said all they need to do are simple things, such as re-profile their Canada summer jobs person to child care instead of on the farm. They say, “I know how to farm and I don't have the time to train someone else to run my business. If I could have help with child care, I could get back to work and make a real difference for the economy.” If you could comment on supports for women entrepreneurs, I would be grateful. COVID-19Entrepreneurship and entrepreneursPandemicWomenWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1530)[English] Thank you so much.MaryNgHon.Markham—ThornhillWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1730)[English]Thank you so much, Chair. Thank you to all of our witnesses. In the limited time, I will focus my questions on Dr. Robson. Thank you so much for being with us today, and, more broadly, for your work to ensure the public has the information they need, in plain language, no less, to access some of the emergency programs that have been rolled out. It's been a terrific resource for my team. Thank you as well for recognizing constituency office workers. To my staff at home and in Ottawa, you have kept a lot of people fed and housed in the past few months. I want to say thank you for all the work you've done. One thing that drives me absolutely crazy is the fact that my constituency staff have to do so much case work, when in fact that service should be provided by the public service, or perhaps by some sort of a navigator. Maybe there should be a non-profit-type solution, as you've recommended. One thing that jumps out at me from the past few weeks when I compare them to the past few years is the simplicity of the design of the CERB in particular. We have a whole group of people who have never had to access social supports before, perhaps because they have a healthy income and don't live in poverty, who have had to click more or less "okay" and receive money in their bank account days later. Over the past few years, in my constituency office, we have seen thousands upon thousands of people who are living in poverty trying to navigate a complex web of provincial, federal, municipal and community programs and they are scraping by with not quite enough really to live and be healthy, often in rural communities that have no transit. What lessons can we learn from the simplicity of design or perhaps the policy design of the CERB or other federal programs, perhaps the Canada child tax benefit, that we are going to be able to apply on the back end of this crisis to help eradicate poverty in Canada once and for all?COVID-19Government programsPandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeJenniferRobson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1735)[English]Mr. Chair, am I out of time?WayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1735)[English]I'd invite any follow-up that you want to submit to the committee. Thank you so much for your work. It's greatly appreciated.WayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan (Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard): (1200)[English]Mr. Chair, we're not getting the interpretation.AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1305)[English]Mr. Chair, I believe that Minister Joly was probably on the English channel but speaking French, and that's why she was just as loud as the interpretation. AnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—Timiskaming//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1315)[English]I want to thank the honourable member for his question. We have put in place a number of measures to address concerns that we have heard from harvesters directly, including the extension of EI to make sure that they are able to qualify this year based on last season's earnings.We continue to look at measures that can address the seasonal workers in fish plants as well as crew on boats to make sure that those concerns are addressed. We will work with the industry and with the people in the provinces to make sure that we are addressing all of these concerns as we go forward, and I look forward to having more to say about that.COVID-19Employment insuranceFisheries and fishersFood and beverage manufacturing industryOral questionsPandemicJackHarrisSt. John's EastCarolHughesAlgoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan: (1315)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, we have said all along that no Canadian will be left behind. We are continuing to work with the industry to make sure that we address concerns as we go forward.COVID-19Employment insuranceFisheries and fishersFood and beverage manufacturing industryOral questionsPandemicCarolHughesAlgoma—Manitoulin—KapuskasingJackHarrisSt. John's East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1715)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Dr. Fisman, you have a wealth of experience in the battle against infectious diseases, yet you've publicly explained that predictions you made earlier this year on the virus were wrong. I think we can both agree that hindsight is 20/20. There's been a lot of discussion at this committee about why certain decisions were made in the early days of this virus.I wonder if you could explain to this committee, and to Canadians, about the difficulties of making predictions around a novel virus, and why what's considered the best advice one day can change and evolve so quickly the next?COVID-19Medical researchPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamDavidFisman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1720)[English]Thank you. I had other questions for you, and I think we've run out the clock—DavidFismanDavidFisman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1720)[English]—but I do want to say that this is excellent and very thoughtful testimony, and I want to thank you for that, Doctor.DavidFismanDavidFisman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1805)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair.Hello, colleagues.I want to say a really special thank you to the witnesses today. I'll echo Dr. Jaczek's that it's interesting to see such a rich series of viewpoints, insights, opinions and also backgrounds in a variety of areas. I really appreciate it. It's very illuminating.Dr. Khan, I find your work very fascinating in terms of the technology you use. I don't necessarily want to look to the past but to potentially a second or third wave.Can you talk about how your technology may be able to be used to track and identify, in many ways, a second or third wave? Could you illuminate a little bit what the biggest risk factor is that could trigger the next wave?COVID-19Medical researchPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamKamranKhan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1810)[English]You have. I think you mentioned measuring disruption in society. Maybe I'm miscategorizing that.Can you unpack that a bit?COVID-19Medical researchPandemicKamranKhanKamranKhan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1810)[English]Thank you very much.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1840)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Before beginning my line of questioning, I just want to thank each of the witnesses for their tireless research efforts and dedication to the fight against COVID-19. Hearing you speak today only confirms to me that team Canada has the right folks on the job and that we'll get through this together.I have three questions, and we'll see if we can get through the three.My first question is for Dr. Nemer.Dr. Nemer, I understand that the COVID-19 immunity task force intends to oversee and support serological testing in Canada over the next two years to track the extent of the virus in the general population and in specific groups at greater risk of being infected.Can you describe the task force's role in overseeing and supporting this testing in Canada, and what role the provinces, the research institutions and others would play in the work of this task force?COVID-19DiagnosisPandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamMonaNemer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1840)[English]Dr. Nemer, will vulnerable population groups and those in rural Canada be tested as well?COVID-19DiagnosisPandemicMonaNemerMonaNemer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1840)[English]Thank you very much.Dr. Strong, while a number of groups in Canada are conducting research around a vaccine for COVID-19, Dalhousie University in my province of Nova Scotia has been the first to be approved for clinical trials. Can you tell me how CIHR will support Dalhousie University researchers through their development?COVID-19ImmunizationPandemicMonaNemerMichaelStrong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1845)[English]Great. How much time left do I have, Mr. Chair?MichaelStrongRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1845)[English]Wonderful.My next question is for you, Dr. Grandvaux, from the Society for Virology. I read on CBC online last week that the novel coronavirus is mutating. Can you tell us what that means for fighting the virus and for tracking it? Will the virus mutation help or hinder international efforts in dealing with COVID-19?COVID-19PandemicRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamNathalieGrandvaux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1845)[English]Thank you.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1845)[English]It's all good.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1855)[English] On a point of order, Mr. Chair, she asked the question. Let this witness answer the question, please.TheresaTamTheresaTam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1550)[English]Thank you so much to our witness for being here. I know you mentioned you're here without a haircut. I recently got a haircut in the very seat I'm sitting in now. I let my wife do it in the living room. If it looks a little unprofessional, I have her to thank. It's passable that's for sure.Mr. Evan Siddall: You're a braver man than me.Mr. Sean Fraser: A major commercial real estate landlord is based in my community. On the announcement of the commercial rent assistance program being rolled out, one of the very first calls I made was to them to ask if it was going to help their tenants stay in business if they access it. They very quickly pointed out the lack of clarity around why someone may need to mortgage to take part in the program was potentially going to be an obstacle. One of the things I committed to do was to go back to the government and see if we could make sure businesses that perhaps don't take mortgage debt, but maybe issue unsecured bonds to finance properties, or some other instrument, could similarly have access.Could you comment on how a business like that will be able to access the commercial rent assistance program?Canada Emergency Commercial Rent AssistanceCOVID-19MortgagesPandemicRentSmall and medium-sized enterprisesWayneEasterHon.MalpequeEvanSiddall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1550)[English]It strikes me that this is similar to some of the other programs that have been launched by the government over the past number of months. It's really a matter of using the existing mechanisms to get cash to distressed businesses or households as quickly as possible and figuring out how to expand them on the heels of the program being introduced.Is that a fair assessment as to how this particular decision went?Canada Emergency Commercial Rent AssistanceCOVID-19MortgagesPandemicRentSmall and medium-sized enterprisesEvanSiddallEvanSiddall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1550)[English]That's excellent. Thank you. For the record, it is helping quite a few businesses.I want to go to some of the scary data—as my colleague, Mr. Poilievre, put it—you shared during your remarks. I think the scariest piece for me was the fact you said it's going to be 2030 before you can project that everyone's going to have access to a home they can afford, notwithstanding the financial difficulties that others are in. It's unconscionable to me today that homelessness is such a prevalent feature of Canadian society. I think this pandemic has shone a light on not just the social and economic consequences, but the public health consequences that people face if they live in a housing-insecure environment.Do you have suggestions on what the federal government could most effectively turn its mind to and help expedite the effort to provide affordable access to a home for all Canadians?COVID-19PandemicSocial housingEvanSiddallEvanSiddall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1550)[English] Thank you.You mentioned significant potential decline of housing prices over the next year or so. Do you anticipate that this is going to be a short-term blip on the radar with an eventual bounce back, or are you projecting that this is a market correction that's going to have some staying power?COVID-19PandemicPrice determinationReal estateEvanSiddallEvanSiddall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1555)[English]Finally—and I'll let you use the rest of my time in your response—we heard from certain witnesses on occasion about the cost of inaction or not taking measures to intervene in the economy. You've pointed to the insured mortgage purchase program of $150 billion that would essentially inject liquidity in the banks' ability to lend to other sectors.I'm thinking about that program and more broadly. Can you talk about the social or economic cost if there had not been a serious economic intervention, not only on the insured mortgage purchase program, but more broadly on the income supports for people and businesses that would have an impact on the housing or mortgage sector?Canada Emergency Response BenefitCOVID-19Insured Mortgage Purchase ProgramMortgage insuranceMortgagesPandemicEvanSiddallEvanSiddall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1555)[English]Excellent.Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those are my questions.EvanSiddallWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1300)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. It gives me a great deal of pleasure to be able to ask a question to our government in such a historic manner.After weeks of working with local industry representatives in the fishery and hearing their concerns, I was very proud to hear the Prime Minister and the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans announce nearly half a billion dollars to support the fishing sector. With the announcement of the new fish harvester benefit and the new fish harvester grant, many licence-holders will now be able to access similar supports to other small and medium-sized businesses across the country. Further, by committing to making changes to employment insurance benefits for harvesters and sharespersons, we've helped reduce the stress that such uncertainty caused to the industry by this pandemic.Mr. Chair, this announcement is very commendable; however, there is always more to be done. With that in mind, I would like to ask the honourable Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to outline for the House how these measures will support fish harvesters and sharespersons during this pandemic.COVID-19Employment insuranceFish Harvester BenefitFish Harvester GrantFisheries and fishersOral questionsPandemicAnthonyRotaHon.Nipissing—TimiskamingBernadetteJordanHon.South Shore—St. Margarets//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88340BernadetteJordanHon.Bernadette-JordanSouth Shore—St. MargaretsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/JordanBernadette_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Bernadette Jordan (Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard): (1300)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I want to thank my colleague for Cape Breton—Canso for his many texts, phone calls and emails. He represents his area and the fishers in that area very well. A lot of what he fed to us and our department was able to form part of what we announced last week. I want to thank him for his advocacy.In rural coastal communities, the fishery is sometimes the only thing we have for our economic driver. That is why it was so important for us to support our harvesters. Last week, we announced close to half a billion dollars going to the fish harvester benefit, which will allow harvesters and sharespersons to collect $847 a week for up to 12 weeks in this very difficult time. We also announced the fish harvester grant, which is a $10,000 grant to harvesters that will be able to help with their fixed costs. Making the change in the employment insurance is going to be a huge win for our fishers. They are going to be able to base their EI claims on last year's season, and that is going to be extremely helpful, because this year we're not really sure what's going to happen.We will continue to work with our harvesters and industry partners to make sure that we're addressing their needs as we go forward. We know that these are very challenging times and we will make sure that we are there for our fishing sector.COVID-19Employment insuranceFish Harvester BenefitFish Harvester GrantFisheries and fishersOral questionsPandemicMikeKellowayCape Breton—CansoCarolHughesAlgoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1130)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Ms. Hogan, congratulations on your nomination. I would like to echo the remarks of my colleague Mr. Kelly in relation to Mr. Ferguson and his great work.I've had the chance to review your CV and resumé. You have a very impressive body of work and background. You touched generally in your opening remarks on the broad themes of leading the organization and modernizing. Could you drill down on some specific outcomes you might have in mind, given, hopefully, your new role here as Auditor General?Auditor General of CanadaAudits and auditorsHogan, KarenOrder in Council appointmentsDeanAllisonNiagara WestKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1130)[English] Thank you very much. That will probably have some resonance for Mr. Green, who might ask questions in that regard as well. How has COVID-19 impacted the ability of the office to do their actual work? Obviously, we know that COVID-19, as Mr. Kelly suggested and you made clear, will become a focus for the office. Has the work been able to continue for the employees? I think you mentioned that there are roughly 575 employees.Auditor General of CanadaCOVID-19Health emergenciesHogan, KarenOrder in Council appointmentsTeleworkingKarenHoganKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1130)[Translation]With more COVID-19 audits to conduct, will the office of the Auditor General of Canada ask for additional funding in the coming days over and above what has already been requested?Auditor General of CanadaHogan, KarenOffice of the Auditor GeneralOrder in Council appointmentsKarenHoganKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1135)[Translation]Thank you. How has funding for the office of the Auditor General changed year to year since 2010?Auditor General of CanadaHogan, KarenOffice of the Auditor GeneralOrder in Council appointmentsKarenHoganKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1135)[English]Mr. Chair, I have just a few seconds left, and I'm wondering if Ms. Hogan could talk about rural broadband. I noticed in her remarks with the Senate that this was perhaps a priority focus. I come from a rural riding, Kings—Hants in Nova Scotia, where many of my constituents deal with this issue. I don't know how much time I have left here. If Ms. Hogan could address that, perhaps not now but during future questions, I'd appreciate it.Auditor General of CanadaBroadband Internet servicesHogan, KarenOrder in Council appointmentsRural communitiesKarenHoganDeanAllisonNiagara West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1250)[English]Mr. Chair, I'd be no more than about a minute if I could ask one final question.DeanAllisonNiagara WestDeanAllisonNiagara West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1250)[English]Ms. Hogan, thank you again for your time.One question I had was about value-for-money audits. I understand that would sometimes be within the scope of your role. When we go down that route of value-for-money audits, if we get to the point that the preliminary research suggests that these are actually good reports, are they ever made public? Do they become full audits that are put out, or if the initial work shows that a program is actually very good value for money, is that ever made public?Auditor General of CanadaAudits and auditorsHogan, KarenOperational reviewsOrder in Council appointmentsDeanAllisonNiagara WestKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1250)[English] I just have one final follow-up question, Mr. Chair.I understand, of course, you do the work around planning these audits, performance or otherwise. Is it ever made public that, “We actually didn't go into this audit because this program is functioning very well”? Are those examples of what becomes public?Auditor General of CanadaAudits and auditorsHogan, KarenOperational reviewsOrder in Council appointmentsKarenHoganKarenHogan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1250)[English]Thank you.KarenHoganDeanAllisonNiagara West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1500)[English]Thank you.First of all, Lorraine, you didn't get a chance to finish your overall comment. Before I start my question, I want to give you the opportunity to finish your statement at the front. I'm sure you were coming to the conclusion, with some recommendations for the government. Would you like to finish that?COVID-19Indigenous peoplesPandemicWomenBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekLorraineWhitman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1500)[English]I'm from a Mi'kmaw reserve. One of the things I often wonder about is whether the communication is getting to the people who need it, the most vulnerable, when you talk about indigenous women on reserve and indigenous women in the municipalities.How are we communicating with the people who are the most vulnerable about the options they have in terms of safe places they can go to? Would you be able to give me a sense of how that is communicated? What is the strategy for communicating with those people who are the most vulnerable, whether it be urban or on reserve?Anyone can answer.COVID-19Indigenous peoplesInformation disseminationPandemicPerson-to-person communicationsWomenLorraineWhitmanBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste: (1505)[English]I just want to thank the people who are on right now for their important work. As a last question regarding women's shelters, what type of relationship do they have? Do they have a collaborative effort where they have a national voice through NWAC, or through any type of institution or advocacy, where they can directly make recommendations to government?COVID-19Indigenous peoplesPandemicSheltersWomenBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann (Cumberland—Colchester, Lib.): (1510)[English]Sorry, it takes a while to get that mute thing off.Hello, everybody. Hello, ladies. It's really good to see all of you. Thank you so much. Wela'lin, from the unceded territory of the Mi'kmaq here in Truro, Nova Scotia, close to Millbrook First Nation.As you know, we've been going through a terrible time here with a recent awful shooting that, bit by bit, we are finding out had very much to do with somebody who had violent tendencies—domestic violence—on many occasions and was not reported. In the end, it led to a massive shooting where 22 innocent people were killed. Many of the women I'm working with and speaking with here in the province are very concerned about domestic violence. Many of us have experienced abuse ourselves, and we are well aware and well experienced, unfortunately, with domestic abuse. We feel that for generations now, society has not looked at this issue as an important one. They feel that whatever happens inside the domicile, the house, is the land of the king of the house and the women are part of the chattel. I would say that it goes right across this country, and to other countries as well.COVID-19Domestic violenceIndigenous peoplesPandemicWomenBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekLenoreZannCumberland—Colchester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1510)[English] So, I think it's time that we all worked together on the issue of feminicide. Missing and murdered indigenous women and others is a huge problem. To be honest, I believe that feminicide is a huge problem here in Canada. I think it's time we all worked together on coming up with a solution.I know that the minister for the status of women, Miryam Monsef, is very keen to help with this, as am I, as is Carolyn Bennett as the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations. Anything we can do to try to put an end to this other pandemic, as you called it, we're only too willing to do and to listen on if it will make things better and change the way things are done here in Canada.One thing I noticed in my particular area, Millbrook First Nation, is that they are having trouble accessing funding for women who are escaping violence on reserve. They can tap into the funds for off reserve quite easily, but because the council is actually closed, and the council members are not in council right now, they're having difficulty trying to access that funding.Lorraine, are you finding that as well across Canada? Is that part of the problem? How can we fix it?COVID-19Domestic violenceIndigenous peoplesPandemicLenoreZannCumberland—ColchesterLorraineWhitman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1515)[English]Right. You've got it.LorraineWhitmanLorraineWhitman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1515)[English]That's a very good point. Thank you.If you would like to take a meeting by Zoom or something at some point maybe next week, with me and with the Nova Scotia Native Women's Association, I would be really happy to talk to you about that one here.LorraineWhitmanBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104544LenoreZannLenore-ZannCumberland—ColchesterLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/ZannLenore_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Lenore Zann: (1515)[English]Please.BobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois (Kings—Hants, Lib.): (1535)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you to all of our witnesses, and certainly, Mr. Brubacher, for the attempt....My first questions are for Ms. Kawaja. PatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeElisabethKawaja//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English]Obviously we're seeing challenges of differing degrees in the agriculture sector. Certainly we've had some testimony to this committee about some success stories of local companies and things like that.You mentioned the wage subsidy. Are there any other federal programs that you have been able to take advantage of, including perhaps the Canada emergency business account?COVID-19Food and beverage manufacturing industryGovernment assistancePandemicElisabethKawajaElisabethKawaja//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English]What is your payroll each year, relatively?COVID-19Food and beverage manufacturing industryPandemicPayrollWhyte's Foods Inc.ElisabethKawajaElisabethKawaja//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English]I'm curious about the size of your company. Obviously the Canada emergency business account is open to those who have a wage payroll of between $20,000 and $1.5 million, and at least that would be $40,000. I am just curious. Certainly there have been a lot of businesses in the agri-food industry that have taken advantage of it. Maybe your payroll is over $1.5 million, but I certainly want to steer you to—COVID-19Food and beverage manufacturing industryPandemicPayrollWhyte's Foods Inc.ElisabethKawajaElisabethKawaja//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English] It's over $1.5 million?COVID-19Food and beverage manufacturing industryPandemicPayrollWhyte's Foods Inc.ElisabethKawajaElisabethKawaja//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1535)[English]I want to talk to you about the labour program. Was labour a challenge before COVID-19 for your business generally? You mentioned you had 350 employees, but I assume these sectors are challenging at the best of times.COVID-19Food and beverage manufacturing industryLabour shortagePandemicElisabethKawajaElisabethKawaja//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1540)[English]We've heard this testimony from other folks regarding the emergency response benefit. What would you propose, then, in terms of the government? Obviously there may be some situations where people may be taking advantage of the benefit, but for the most part, there are a lot of Canadians who are in need. Is it your position that it shouldn't have been introduced? What exactly would you have liked to see?Canada Emergency Response BenefitCOVID-19PandemicPhilippeBlondinPhilippeBlondin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1540)[English]Mr. Chair, how much time do I have?PhilippeBlondinPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand Lake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104555KodyBloisKody-BloisKings—HantsLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BloisKody_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Kody Blois: (1540)[English]I'll move over to Ms. Ventin.Thank you for your testimony as well. With regard to the stakeholders you represent, we know there are challenges. Can you speak to how some of the businesses are pivoting or being able to make changes as a result of COVID-19?Business modelsCOVID-19Food and beverage manufacturing industryPandemicPatFinniganMiramichi—Grand LakeCarlaVentin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser (Central Nova, Lib.): (1730)[English]I am, Mr. Chair, but I'm having trouble. I am going to pass the time over to Ms. Koutrakis, but very quickly, just from Finance, just for the sake of clarity, on the protections against abuse in the CERB, I don't know why this has become a controversial issue whatsoever. Am I correct in my understanding that we made a decision to administer the program quickly, to approve applications based on the attestation and to conduct enforcement on the back end to the extent that fraud is detected? This does not seem like rocket science to me. Is that an accurate description of the enforcement mechanism?Allegations of fraud and fraudCanada Emergency Response BenefitCOVID-19PandemicWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88316SeanFraserSean-FraserCentral NovaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FraserSean_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Sean Fraser: (1730)[English]Thank you very much. It's that simple.I'll pass my remaining time to Ms. Koutrakis.Cliff C.GroenAnnieKoutrakisVimy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway (Cape Breton—Canso, Lib.): (1705)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Hello, colleagues.Before I begin with my line of questioning, I just want to say that it's a real privilege for me to hear from the witnesses today and for all of us to hear from the witnesses today. In my riding of Cape Breton—Canso, we have a large seniors population, and I keep them in mind every day. Throughout this pandemic, I've seen just how much citizens throughout the riding have come together to support seniors in our communities during these challenging times. I want to thank each of you for the work that you're doing in this regard.My question is for Dr. Armstrong, and this has been referenced. You wrote a report that identified staffing issues, shortages of staffing and low wages for health care workers in long-term care facilities as having contributed to the spread of COVID-19. We know that the spread of the illness, including the common flu, has been noticed very quickly throughout long-term care homes even before COVID-19.In your research, what solutions have you concluded can address these staffing issues and can prevent the spread of communicable diseases? Also—I think you've alluded to this—can you talk a little about the best practices that you have been able to identify that long-term health care facility administrators should be aware of?Care for the elderlyCOVID-19Long-term carePandemicWorking hours, terms and conditionsRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamPatArmstrong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1710)[English] In regular times, absolutely, and that was probably 20 years ago, as you mentioned.Just to stay with you for a second, many witnesses have come to the committee on various topics regarding COVID, and there seems to be a bit of a common thread around greater federal oversight in a variety of ways. You referenced that here in this session. Can you elaborate a little more as to what that looks like to you?Care for the elderlyCOVID-19Long-term carePandemicPatArmstrongPatArmstrong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1710)[English]Thank you, Dr. Armstrong.I'll try to get a question in here for Ms. Mackenzie.A few weeks back, I read that B.C. had announced more supports for seniors and caregivers during COVID-19, in addition to the funding provided by the feds through the local United Way organizations and the new horizons for seniors program we announced in early April. Now that the provincial funding has been out there for about three weeks, maybe close to a month, I'm interested in your perspective. What are you hearing as to how this has benefited seniors and whether it has been difficult for them to access their support? This could be something I could easily ask people from other provinces as well, in terms of provincial and federal measures, but in this case, with respect to the provincial measures, I'm curious as to what you're hearing on the ground.Care for the elderlyCOVID-19PandemicPatArmstrongIsobelMackenzie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104531MikeKellowayMike-KellowayCape Breton—CansoLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/KellowayMike_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Mike Kelloway: (1715)[English]Thank you.IsobelMackenzieRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher (Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, Lib.): (1830)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. As always, thanks very much to all the witnesses who are here today.Ms. Hall, yesterday the Prime Minister and the Minister of Seniors announced the tax-free $300 on the OAS and an additional $200 to those who qualify for GIS, positively impacting six million to eight million Canadians, plus previous announcements with regard to funding community organizations.I am interested in your thoughts on that announcement yesterday as it pertains to seniors.Care for the elderlyCOVID-19PandemicSocial benefitsRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamJodiHall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1830)[English]Thank you for that.Ms. Mackenzie, you had everybody in our committee writing down the freak-out factor and highlighting it when you said that. I feel that the focus and discussion around long-term care workers and clients became all about PPE and not necessarily about control measures or basic hygiene measures. I thought maybe you could tell us a little about those early days.Care for the elderlyCaregivers and health care professionalsCOVID-19Long-term carePandemicJodiHallIsobelMackenzie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/88323DarrenFisherDarren-FisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/FisherDarren_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Darren Fisher: (1835)[English]Thank you.RonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port CoquitlamRonMcKinnonCoquitlam—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/104571JaimeBattisteJaime-BattisteSydney—VictoriaLiberal CaucusNova Scotia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BattisteJaime_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Jaime Battiste (Sydney—Victoria, Lib.): (1135)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'm really happy to have the ability to discuss urban indigenous people today. I think the committee needs to get a better understanding, just as I do, of some of the barriers that exist for indigenous people who are off reserve.I want to focus a bit on the friendship centres. What challenges has COVID-19 created for your organization? I know that friendship centres are often a gathering place for urban indigenous people. Without that ability to gather, what programs are you currently able to offer during the COVID era? Are they being communicated? How are we communicating with those you represent?COVID-19Indigenous friendship centresInformation disseminationPandemicBobBratinaHamilton East—Stoney CreekJocelynFormsmaINTERVENTIONParliament and SessionDiscussed TopicProcedural TermCommitteePerson SpeakingProvince / TerritoryCaucusParticipation TypeSearchResults per pageOrder byTarget search languageSide by SideMaximum returned rowsPagePUBLICATION TYPE