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View Diane Lebouthillier Profile
Lib. (QC)
Thank you very much.
Hello to all my colleagues.
Mr. Chair, I would like to take this opportunity, before beginning my presentation, to wish you a happy birthday.
Thank you for this invitation to provide details on the Canada Revenue Agency's strategies to combat tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.
Let me begin by saying that the Government of Canada and the CRA are firmly committed to combatting tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance on all fronts. And we are all committed to making things much more difficult for those who choose not to meet their tax obligations.
In fact, since 2016, the Government of Canada has made investments that have helped provide the CRA with better data, better methodology and, ultimately, better results.
In particular, these investments have enabled the agency to develop a strategy that promotes global data sharing. Let's face it, tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance are complex global problems.
The CRA is working with international partners through various multilateral organizations, including the Organization for Economic Co‑operation and Development, or OECD, and its forum on tax administration, the FTA. I was pleased to see that Mr. Bob Hamilton, commissioner of the CRA, was appointed chair of the FTA in August 2020.
As a result of its modern and collaborative strategy, Canada is member to 93 tax treaties and 24 international tax information exchange agreements. In fact, Canada is one of more than 70 countries that exchange information through the country‑by‑country reporting system.
In addition, Canada participates in the electronic funds transfer reporting program, which is related to international electronic funds transfers over $10,000. And with the implementation of the common reporting standard in 2016, Canada, alongside nearly 100 other jurisdictions, benefits from financial institution data that identifies financial accounts held by non-resident clients for tax purposes.
With these improved resources and tools, the CRA is now able to focus on large multinationals, high net worth networks, the underground economy, cryptocurrency and real estate transactions.
The CRA is now seeing these signs of success because of the investments made by the Government of Canada.
In recent years, the CRA has assessed the equivalent of more than $12 billion each year through audits, more than 60% of which were related to tax avoidance by large multinationals and aggressive tax planning by high net worth individuals.
And I must note that these investments have generated approximately $5 billion in additional federal tax revenue, as of March 2021.
Additionally, the CRA's criminal investigations program has enhanced its ability to investigate the most serious tax crimes. It is important to note that the agency investigates complex cases in collaboration with its partners in the Department of Finance and the Department of Justice to close what may be perceived as legal loopholes. And I must remind you that the CRA has shifted its focus to more hard-hitting investigations, which result in more jail time and higher fines.
However, we must never forget that tax evasion often involves very complex domestic and international money transfer structures, which require the CRA to complete lengthy and time-consuming intelligence gathering processes.
I also want to note that we are increasingly seeing high net worth taxpayers using the court system when they are audited in order to avoid providing documents and information to the agency. And I want to emphasize that the volume of complex litigation is up significantly from previous years, with approximately 3,000 active cases considered high level in complexity.
As a result, first announced in the 2020 fall economic statement and confirmed in budget 2021, the Government of Canada has committed to invest $606 million over five years, beginning in 2021‑22, to continue this complex work.
These investments will close the compliance gap for high net worth individuals, strengthen technical support for high-risk audits, improve the CRA's ability to identify tax evasion involving trusts, improve the CRA's ability to stop fraudulent or unjustified GST/HST refunds, and, finally, improve the criminal investigations program.
In addition to the financial investments from budget 2021 legislative changes will also be put in place to strengthen the rules on transfer pricing, oral testimony, base erosion and profit shifting, and mandatory disclosure rules.
Before I conclude, I would like to wish the chair of this committee, Mr. Wayne Easter, a very happy retirement.
I want to thank you personally for your outstanding work on behalf of Canadians. We will miss you.
Mr. Chair, I am proud to say that the Government of Canada and the CRA have shown determination and innovation in creating effective and proactive approaches to identifying those who avoid paying their fair share of taxes or who are taking steps to do so.
Thank you.
Ted Gallivan
View Ted Gallivan Profile
Ted Gallivan
2021-06-10 15:34
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Through the government's investments, which have been announced in federal budgets since 2016, the CRA has been able to equip itself with tools and resources that allow collaboration and exchange of data at a global scale and provide much more transparency for Canadians.
Because of these investments by the Government, the CRA has benefited from better data, better partnerships, and ultimately, better results in its fight against tax evasion.
Canada is one of more than 70 countries that exchange information via country-by-country reporting. Since 2015 Canada has participated in the sharing of data related to international electronic funds transfers of over $10,000. Additionally, with the implementation of the common reporting standard in 2016, Canada and nearly 100 other jurisdictions have been able to benefit from data from financial institutions that identify financial accounts held by customers who are non-residents for tax purposes.
Thanks to budgetary investments since 2016, the CRA has observed excellent signs of success. In fact, the agency has identified over $12 billion in gross audit assessments every year, over 60% of which is related to tax avoidance by large multinational corporations and aggressive tax planning by wealthy individuals. While the CRA had committed to finding an additional $5 billion over five years, we actually achieved that goal a year early, despite the pandemic. In addition, our proven results demonstrate that we're taking the right tax cases to the Tax Court of Canada, the Federal Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada.
Of course, there is still work to be done, but we have a proven track record to show that we are making it increasingly difficult for non‑compliant individuals to continue their activities.
As part of the fall economic statement 2020, and confirmed in budget 2021, the government committed to investing an additional $606 million over five years, starting this fiscal year. Notably, we are working to close the high-net-worth compliance gap, bolster technical support on high-risk audits and enhance the criminal investigations program. These investments will allow the CRA to fund new initiatives and extend existing programs targeting international tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance.
The Government of Canada's continual investment in fighting tax evasion and aggressive tax avoidance promotes an international exchange of information that is both modern and collaborative, and ultimately ensures that all Canadians pay their fair share.
View Gabriel Ste-Marie Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have some questions for the Department of Finance.
My regards to you, Mr. McGowan, and to your colleagues as well.
Clearly, it's important to avoid double taxation in a company when there's real economic activity. This is usually written into the tax treaty between Canada and another country.
Why, in the case of almost all tax havens, has this agreement been extended to include tax information exchange agreements?
Stephanie Smith
View Stephanie Smith Profile
Stephanie Smith
2021-06-10 16:22
I think you're referring to the domestic law provision that allows exempt surplus to be repatriated free of tax if it comes from a jurisdiction with which Canada has a tax treaty, or a tax information exchange agreement.
The underlying tax policy reason for that provision is to ensure that Canadian corporations can compete competitively and pay the same level of taxes in the jurisdictions in which they are operating. There are rules around the foreign affiliates system to ensure that only active business income can be repatriated tax-free. Any income that is passive investment income is taxed on an accrual basis.
View Michael Cooper Profile
CPC (AB)
Thank you, Madam Co-Chair.
I will direct my questions to the Department of Health officials.
The question I have relates to the federal monitoring regulations within the context of sharing monitoring data with law enforcement in instances where the Criminal Code safeguards are not followed. More specifically, it's my understanding that right now there are two streams of monitoring data. In about a half of the provinces and territories, MAID practitioners are expected to report to the federal government through a designated provincial or territorial body, in which those governments would have access to such data. However, in the other half of the provinces and territories, MAID practitioners report directly to the federal government.
Can you speak to that issue of sharing federally collected monitoring data with local enforcement agencies?
Abby Hoffman
View Abby Hoffman Profile
Abby Hoffman
2021-06-07 20:25
Sure, and I'll keep this fairly brief.
First of all, I'll say that the federal government is not in the business of enforcing the Criminal Code. This does fall to provinces, and it falls to a combination of public authorities and self-regulating professions.
I will say, though, that the jurisdictions where the reporting is through a provincial so-called designated recipient—in other words, we receive the reports in bulk from those provinces—represent the overwhelming majority of the population and MAID cases in the country.
That's only to say that, with the adequacy of the reports from a Criminal Code-MAID legal framework perspective, it's not difficult at all for provinces to examine that data and make their own assessments about compliance with the Criminal Code.
View Michael Cooper Profile
CPC (AB)
How can Canadians be confident that the criteria and safeguards are respected in each province and territory on a consistent basis?
Abby Hoffman
View Abby Hoffman Profile
Abby Hoffman
2021-06-07 20:26
I mentioned this before. When we report, we're reporting on what the providers are saying about each and every eligibility criteria and each and every safeguard that's spelled out in the legal framework.
If you're asking if we have monitors out there or if provinces, for that matter, have on-the-ground monitors who are validating that data, the answer to that question is no. This is very similar to how things work in the health care system generally. People who feel aggrieved or wronged can complain. There are medical oversight bodies in Ontario. The coroner's office investigates and so on—
View Kyle Seeback Profile
CPC (ON)
I saw the sign, so I have less than a minute now.
As we look to craft a report on this, is there any data you can share or table with the committee or any lessons you've gleaned from these other pilots that we can look at as part of our report?
Catrina Tapley
View Catrina Tapley Profile
Catrina Tapley
2021-06-02 17:47
We will table the Atlantic immigration evaluation with the committee. As well, I think we have some important statistics on the current immigration landscape, how many people are staying in cities, how many people are in communities themselves, just as good background information. The AIP evaluation would, I would think, certainly be helpful.
Hassan Yussuff
View Hassan Yussuff Profile
Hassan Yussuff
2021-06-01 11:12
Thank you, Chair.
First let me thank the committee for the opportunity to present to you today.
I represent the Canadian Labour Congress, Canada's largest central labour body in the country, and it speaks on national issues on behalf of three million working men and women from coast to coast. The CLC, of course, supports Bill C-253, and I want to thank the members who voted to advance this bill.
For years, the CLC has advocated changing the bankruptcy laws in our country. Workers and pensioners should be first in line, not last, when it comes to paying creditors. Workers pay for their defined benefits, pensions and other post-retirement employment benefits by deferring part of their compensation. Employers have a legal obligation to pay these promised pensions in retirement. It is totally unacceptable that earned benefits are taken away from pensioners, through no fault of their own, at a time in their lives when they are least able to adjust. Pensioners cannot simply go back to work when their pensions are cut. They need the post-retirement drug coverage and benefits that they have earned through working for a lifetime.
This tragedy has gone on too long. It has occurred too often. It cannot go on any longer. It is time to fix this problem.
The insolvency process is rigged against working people. The recent Laurentian University example shows how small unions are isolated and besieged by CCAA proceedings. Workers are threatened with devastating job losses unless they agree to make deep concessions to wages, pensions and benefits.
The CLC believes that public institutions should be excluded altogether from the CCAA and the BIA. The federal insolvency laws are meant for commercial corporate reorganizations. They were never meant to provide cover for provincial governments that refuse to live up to their fiscal obligations and expect workers and pensioners to pay the costs. The CLC would prefer that the claims of workers and pensioners be moved to the front of the line, as Bill C-253 seeks to do.
If there is no consensus to do so, the CLC believes that all parties should consider granting pensioners' and employees' claims the status of “preferred claim”. This would place them immediately behind the secure creditors in priority of claims, but ahead of unsecured creditors. We believe that treating employees' claims as preferred claims will materially improve outcomes for workers and pensioners.
However, getting the data to establish this is not easy. Currently the data is controlled by the big accounting firms—especially Ernst & Young, KPMG, Deloitte and PricewaterhouseCoopers —that act as monitors in CCAA proceedings and trustees in bankruptcies. There is a clear public policy purpose for making this data available for researchers. We are seeking aggregate anonymized data for large business insolvencies in which pension deficits are involved. We are not seeking commercially sensitive data. In our view, the superintendent of bankruptcy should be required to obtain this data from monitors and make it available to researchers.
We also recommend that the federal government conduct a feasibility study to establish a national mandatory pension insurance scheme for Canada. This study should form the basis of discussions with the provinces to establish a national scheme to rescue stranded pensions.
Finally, the government must stop company executives from enriching themselves and shareholders when there is a serious pension deficit.
The 2017 Sears Canada CCAA filing and liquidation was an outrage. Beginning in 2010, Sears paid $1.5 billion to shareholders in dividends and share buybacks. By doing so, Sears paid five and a half times more to its shareholders than it would have cost to entirely erase the deficit in its DB pension plan. Sears' decision in 2013 to pay a $500-million dividend when the pension deficit stood at $313 million would alone have been enough to eliminate the deficit. Instead, Sears Canada pensioners outside of Ontario were forced to accept cuts in benefits. This is a profound injustice. It should never be permitted to happen again.
Thank you very much. I look forward to any questions that committee members may have.
I wish all the best to you.
View Rachel Blaney Profile
NDP (BC)
Okay, fair enough; I think that's good. It's not really answering the question, so I'm just going to move on.
In the same report, the Native Women's Association also talked about identifying and assisting indigenous victims and survivors of human trafficking and exploitation and how that effort has been greatly hindered by a lack of disaggregated and cross-jurisdictional data.
We hear this again and again. In every report that we do, data continues to be the big challenge. I'm wondering if there's been any work done on that and if the importance of indigenous ownership of the data collected in relation to the indigenous experience has been recognized. I also wonder how the fact of cross-jurisdictional data can be addressed. This continues to be an issue.
I only have one minute left, so I would really appreciate it if whoever can answer that best would please step up. We don't have a lot of time.
Nathalie Levman
View Nathalie Levman Profile
Nathalie Levman
2021-06-01 13:04
I'm wondering if you would like to hear from Statistics Canada on these issues. There is data out there and a lot of it has been spearheaded by indigenous groups, but I think this is really a question for Statistics Canada. I note that they're not here.
Hamid Benhmade
View Hamid Benhmade Profile
Hamid Benhmade
2021-05-28 14:13
Ladies and gentlemen, my colleague Claude Vaillancourt and I would like to thank you for inviting us to appear before the committee on behalf of the Réseau québécois sur l'intégration continentale.
Currently, as you know, the debate on the waiver of intellectual property rights on anti-coronavirus vaccines reveals a divide between those who are for the waiver and those who are against the waiver.
As my colleagues reminded us earlier, the waiver has been officially endorsed by 58 governments and is supported by 100 countries. A small number of powers are opposed; they include Brazil, Canada, Japan, the United Kingdom and the European Union.
Ladies and gentlemen, whether we are for or against the waiver, one thing is certain: no one can deny that vaccine nationalism may well harm all the investments that have been made to contain the pandemic since it began. That a number of anti-coronavirus vaccines have been produced in less than a year is an unprecedented scientific accomplishment. However, that success, laudable though it is, is presently undermined by unequal, troubling and worrying access to the vaccines. That is why the Réseau québécois sur l'intégration continentale is calling for property rights on the anti-coronavirus vaccines to be suspended for two fundamental reasons. First, for reasons that are humanitarian, not economic, and second, for reasons that are purely economic.
First and foremost, it is time to put humanitarian issues before all other considerations. It is unjust that the least fortunate, basically those from developing countries, should remain at the mercy of pharmaceutical giants, when we know full well that most subsidies intended to support research into the coronavirus come from public funds.
Here we are once more, privatizing profits and socializing losses. The public is paying twice for the same vaccine. We pay first to finance the research and development and we pay again to acquire the doses we need.
Because developed countries have obtained more than half of all the contracts for vaccines, many developing countries will not have mass vaccination before 2025. A delay of that kind could set the scene for potentially dangerous variants in the future and cost many their lives.
Economically, the vaccine war is likely to cost more than the war against the pandemic. That is the conclusion of research published by the National Bureau of Economic Research in the United States. In fact, if countries of the North become vaccinated and countries of the South remain largely excluded from vaccination, the global economy will sustain losses of more than $9.2 trillion in 2021, almost half of which will be absorbed by advanced economies, including Canada.
Because of the recession that the pandemic is imposing on less-advanced economies, exporters and importers in the advanced economies, of which Canada is one, would be prey, first, to markets that are stagnating or even declining, and second, to global value chains that are more and more disrupted. This is why ensuring free and universal access to anti-coronavirus vaccines, and doing so today, is not only an altruistic and moral act, it is also an economic necessity.
In the light of these factors, which we invite Canada to consider, our network urges the Government of Canada to support the waiver of intellectual property rights on vaccines and to promote it in international discussions.
In the long term, lifting property rights on vaccines against COVID-19 must be followed by the dissemination of knowledge. Some countries in the South have shown that they have a great capacity for producing generic medications. But restrictions on importing them in the TRIPS and the extension of protection for brand-name medications in various free trade agreements, have made it difficult to disseminate essential data so that the medications can be produced and made available.
Ladies and gentlemen, whether the issue is saving lives or relaunching economies, free and universal vaccination is currently the only way we have to achieve it. The extraordinary circumstances of the pandemic call for extraordinary action.
Thank you for your attention.
View Richard Cannings Profile
NDP (BC)
Thank you. I'll finish with what will be a quick question, hopefully, on data. I want to thank the analysts by jogging my memory in their notes for this meeting.
As you may remember, Mr. Chair, in the last Parliament, we did a study on energy data because it was noted that energy data was very difficult to access in Canada—most of it came from the National Energy Board, and a lot of it was not very timely. You couldn't walk it across provincial boundaries, so most analysts ended up using data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration.
I now know there's the new Canadian Centre for Energy Information, led by StatsCan and NRCan. I'm wondering if someone could give me an update on where that project is. Are people using it? Is the data coming in as we, from the committee, wanted it to do, so that it is comprehensive, easily accessible and, most of all, timely? We were getting two-year-old data most of the time.
Jean-François Tremblay
View Jean-François Tremblay Profile
Jean-François Tremblay
2021-05-28 14:41
The portal is up and running. I've been using it myself. It works very well. When I have discussions with stakeholders, including universities and so on, they all mention how useful it is to have such a tool. I don't have the numbers on how many people actually have accessed it and access it on a regular basis, but that's something we can do. Also, at some point, if the committee specifically wants a briefing on how to use it, what exactly is there and what we're thinking for the future, we would be more than pleased to do that. I'm sure our scientists and our data group would be more than pleased to brief the committee.
View Tony Van Bynen Profile
Lib. (ON)
Thank you.
Throughout this entire study and even through our previous study, we heard from numerous witnesses about the importance of sharing health data across Canada. While we've mostly heard about this in the context of COVID-19, I think it's applicable to other health-related contexts.
Do you see a benefit in such a system, and if so, would it impact the efforts to prevent and to manage diseases across the country?
Theresa Tam
View Theresa Tam Profile
Theresa Tam
2021-05-21 11:55
Mr. Chair, that is a very important question.
I think public health policy should be driven by data. We have had data presented, and it has to come from the local level up to the national level, so I do think we've seen data improve over time. This is the first pandemic where we're having case-by-case data reported nationally through the pan-Canadian health data strategy. With the safe restart agreements and the resources being provided to the provinces and territories, we have seen improvements in the data being gathered, including on race, indigeneity and occupation. That has improved, and that kind of improvement must be taken forward as we look to keep going and strengthening that data system.
Anthony Farrell
View Anthony Farrell Profile
Anthony Farrell
2021-05-12 16:49
Thank you for the invitation to speak today. As already noted, I'm a professor in land and food systems in the department of zoology at UBC. I hold a Canada research chair tier one in fish physiology, culture and conservation. I'm a fellow of the Royal Society of Canada, and a fellow of the Canadian Geographical Society. I obtained my Ph.D. in zoology at UBC many years ago. I've held academic positions previously at biology departments at the University of New Brunswick and Mount Allison University in New Brunswick, and Simon Fraser University in British Columbia.
In almost a 50-year research career, I've focused predominantly on the physiology of a crucial life support system in fishes, which is their cardio-respiratory system. I work predominantly with B.C. salmonids, but I have researched fish on every continent, including Antarctica, studying over 100 different fish species. I've published over 470 peer-reviewed journal publications, 31 co-edited book volumes, and a three-volume encyclopedia of fish physiology.
My research collaborations are wide in B.C. They have included Fisheries and Oceans Canada, the Pacific Salmon Commission, the Pacific Salmon Foundation, Go Fish BC, commercial fishers, first nations and industry. Among my publications, about 140 of them deal broadly with the conservation physiology of salmon, which is a passion for me. About 50 of the publications deal with assessing sublethal consequences of infections, diseases and toxicants. I was the expert who would have investigated the consequences to salmon of experimental pathogen infections for the strategic salmon health initiative led by Dr. Miller-Saunders and Dr. Riddell. In fact, I've co-authored 21 publications with Dr. Miller-Saunders.
In terms of aquaculture, I was a member of the Honourable John Fraser's B.C. Pacific Salmon Forum. Also, I was a member of Dr. Mona Nemer's Independent Expert Panel on Aquaculture Science, which reported to DFO.
At the request of the provincial Minister of the Environment I was commissioned to review the 2019 Newfoundland and Labrador south coast mortality event of cultured Atlantic salmon. That was authored by Burke, Gardner and Farrell.
Thus, beyond basic science discovery, I seek direct application of my research and knowledge to issues such as salmon conservation; assessing sublethal consequences of infections, diseases and toxicants to salmon; and also sustainable salmonid aquaculture.
If you're interested, I have three messages that I will happily expand on, as time allows.
My first is a comment. I believe, having watched earlier versions of these meetings, that crucial peer-reviewed literature, that which is relevant to wild salmon management because it has investigated the actual impacts to salmon of deliberate disease infections, is being ignored by certain communications to this committee.
The second one is a recommendation of sorts to DFO. DFO needs to make its information and data pertaining to both aquaculture and to wild salmon more readily available, and in that I mean more user-friendly, which is the case in Norway.
My third and last point is that aquaculture decision-making must become more locally based, particularly in B.C. It needs to be evenly applied from coast to coast to coast. To do so, DFO will need to devolve some of its regulatory powers to the local peoples, as is the case in Norway.
Thank you very much.
View Patricia Lattanzio Profile
Lib. (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Therrien, for your testimony this morning. It was quite informative.
What I'm drawing from it is that there's a constant need of striking a balance between individual human rights, public confidence and economic growth. It's going to be quite a difficult task, because technology is forever evolving and it's going at a very fast pace. In my opinion, a restudy is more than warranted as we do not know when we will get Bill C-11.
On the question of cross-border data, that's of interest to me because given the nature of cross-border data, as it flows, it adheres to international best practices and standards, which will be instrumental for ensuring Canadian competitiveness.
Is it correct to say—and I want to go back to that European notion you were talking about earlier—that the EU data protection regulation remains the international gold standard? How can Canada ensure equivalency with this regulation? That would be my first question.
Why is it in Canada's interests to retain the equivalency with the EU?
Daniel Therrien
View Daniel Therrien Profile
Daniel Therrien
2021-05-10 12:47
The government certainly cited the desirability of Canada maintaining adequacy status in the EU as one impetus for Bill C-11. Indeed, maintaining adequacy is important. It allows data flows between Canada and the EU without specific mechanisms, like special contracts and the like.
Clearly, for Canada maintaining adequacy is helpful in order to maintain a freer flow of data between Canada and the EU. Beyond the EU, as I've said, we live in an interconnected world, and obviously, we have a neighbour to the south with whom we have very significant fundamental commercial relations, so data also needs to flow there.
I think that's all good, but we need to.... Hopefully, in the context of the review of Bill C-11, we can look at ways to allow these data flows, but in a way that recognizes that when data leaves Canada, the risks are higher.
I'm not advocating for ways to prevent these data flows, but certainly, in the submission you will now be able to read, we make certain recommendations on how to enhance the protection of personal information when it does leave Canada, while still allowing that.
View Pat Kelly Profile
CPC (AB)
That's a fantastic point. Hopefully we'll have the minister here on this study at some point, and the minister should answer that question.
It would seem to me that complexity shouldn't enter into it. If you ask for a document and your corporate structure is too complicated to comply, then that should be on the filer.
Debi Daviau
View Debi Daviau Profile
Debi Daviau
2021-05-06 16:11
Mr. Kelly, we used to have international tax units that were very well organized and could work together more effectively to produce those kinds of documents, but those units were broken down some 10 or so years ago in favour of interspersing these tax experts within more generalized teams. That has reduced the capacity of employees at the CRA to be able to deliver on getting international tax avoiders to pay their fair share.
View Sean Fraser Profile
Lib. (NS)
View Sean Fraser Profile
2021-05-06 16:15
Thank you very much, Mr. Cohen. I'll use some of the examples you discussed, particularly in the global context of this problem, for my next question to Ms. Daviau.
Ms. Daviau, you mentioned that one of the things we continue to need to do is explore further initiatives on the international stage and co-operate with our global partners to ensure that we can stamp out tax evasion globally. What actions can the federal government in Canada take to help contribute to the global solution to the issue of tax evasion?
Ryan Campbell
View Ryan Campbell Profile
Ryan Campbell
2021-05-06 16:16
The biggest issue that has been advocated by auditors at the Canada Revenue Agency, based on their work, is to focus on corporate tax evasion. The scale is much larger. The PBO has identified that as much as $25 billion a year could be accessible or unlocked from tax havens if the right provisions were in place. In order to do that, it's really necessary to reorient the way the tax system is structured and to reform the current state.
Right now when an international corporation makes a sale, they have some discretion to transfer the profit or to modify the price within internal supply chains to book the value of that sale in a low-tax jurisdiction. From the standpoint of CRA auditors, it's a game of cat and mouse to try to figure out exactly what the fair market value of that transaction was and determine whether or not it was on the level.
In order to tip the scales back in favour of companies being taxed fairly everywhere, there's a specific combination of different reforms that can be put in place, or broad principles, a combination of which would solve the problem.
One is a formulary allocation of profits, which is basically a change in criteria that are currently in use in Canada that determine how corporations' profits are booked from province to province.
The other is unitary treatment to make sure that when these transactions happen between a parent company and a subsidiary, leading to this transfer pricing and profits being booked in low-tax jurisdictions instead of where the commerce actually happens, the corporations are treated globally as a unitary entity—
View Luc Berthold Profile
CPC (QC)
That seems to be a political comment to me. That is why I wanted to let you know. The auditor general's comments are usually very well documented and based on specific elements.
I do not disagree with what you said, but I wanted to know why it was indicated in that way. This is literally a comment on government policy. This comment is more political than based on facts.
I am just making a quick comment, but I don't blame you for it. I also think this was an absolutely essential program. It was worth mentioning this element.
Mr. Hamilton, I wanted to talk to you about communication among departments. I saw in your action plan that you were going to put in efforts to improve that communication.
I recently received from the minister a letter about a completely different issue. I am talking about the famous issue between Service Canada and the Canada Revenue Agency concerning the Canada recovery caregiving benefit, or CRCB. For people to be able to obtain answers, data must be shared between a CRA agent and a Service Canada agent.
Don't you think it is high time for the two organization to talk to each other and find a solution to those communication and data sharing issues, since those problems have been surfacing more and more frequently?
Bob Hamilton
View Bob Hamilton Profile
Bob Hamilton
2021-05-04 12:12
That is indeed an issue for us in general.
In the action plan, we mentioned a few changes concerning situations where it is necessary to obtain information from another department.
For example, at the Department of Immigration, it is important to have information on newcomers, as well as on people emigrating from Canada. So we exchange information with the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, but—
View Luc Berthold Profile
CPC (QC)
Do those exchanges have to be done from person to person? Can the information be obtained electronically?
Bob Hamilton
View Bob Hamilton Profile
Bob Hamilton
2021-05-04 12:13
That's what I'm getting at. We're increasingly using an automated system in which systems specific to both departments can communicate with each other. It isn't necessary to have someone from CBSA talking to someone from the Department of Immigration.
This poses a challenge, however, since each agency and department has its own system. I hope that we'll gradually develop systems that can communicate with each other. We've already made a great deal of progress in this area, but there's still a lot to do. This is important for the future, given the largely digital economy.
We have processes, but we need to improve them and automate them more for Canadians. You're right about that.
View Luc Berthold Profile
CPC (QC)
In your opinion, is the Treasury Board paying enough attention to this issue? Is it putting enough pressure on different departments to find a solution quickly?
Bob Hamilton
View Bob Hamilton Profile
Bob Hamilton
2021-05-04 12:14
The Treasury Board is paying very close attention to this issue and to a number of other issues.
The Canada child benefit poses a challenge. However, I suspect that it isn't the biggest challenge facing the government.
The Treasury Board is paying attention to this issue, and we'll continue to work with the other departments.
View Matthew Green Profile
NDP (ON)
As a follow-up, according to the OAG's report other branches of the agency and other federal departments were likely to have information that could support a benefit application—for example, the renewal of a resident card. Access to this information would have to be enabled to access eligibility with higher levels of confidence.
Is this information not accessible due to legal restrictions on sharing information between CRA and departments or even between branches of the CRA, or could this information be easily accessible?
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-05-04 12:32
Perhaps I could turn to my colleague Heather Daniels with respect to the privacy-sharing rules.
I think it's very case-specific. In some cases, there are going to be limitations in terms of whether the other department is able to share that information. At other times, it's a system issue: Can the systems talk to each other? In other cases, there's definitely progress that we can make in some of these issues, as the OAG pointed out. We're working on that on a number of fronts.
Could I turn to Heather and ask her whether she wanted to contribute anything to this?
Heather Daniels
View Heather Daniels Profile
Heather Daniels
2021-05-04 12:33
I would agree. I believe Mr. Vermaeten covered the scenarios. Often there are privacy issues with respect to sharing of information, so there are limitations. In some cases, we can develop a memorandum of understanding, an MOU, with another department to facilitate the process of information sharing, as we've recently done with Canada Border Services in our agreement to receive information on exit data.
We are making much progress in respect of sharing information with other departments.
View Kody Blois Profile
Lib. (NS)
View Kody Blois Profile
2021-05-04 12:42
Okay. Talk to me about the information, because of course there are broader conversations going on right now about the information sharing between provinces and territories and the federal government around health care writ large, given the fact that we're in a pandemic.
Is the information that you receive from the provinces and territories generally all in the same standard form, or does each province or territory have a bit of a different way in which they send that information to the federal government?
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-05-04 12:43
Generally speaking, it's very similar across provinces and the one territory. We're working with the two other territories that aren't part of this to try to put in place those systems and the information-sharing agreements to get the right information so we can be confident of giving individual CCB if the hospital provides us this information.
View Kody Blois Profile
Lib. (NS)
View Kody Blois Profile
2021-05-04 12:43
Just because I am curious, can you tell me if all of that information is being sent to the Government of Canada in digital form, or it is in paper form? How does that actually come to you?
View Kody Blois Profile
Lib. (NS)
View Kody Blois Profile
2021-05-04 12:44
Okay. I appreciate that.
I want to go back to Mr. Lawrence's line of questioning. He talked about new Canadians, and we recognize that 50% are still coming from family situations that are always changing. I think we can all appreciate that. Some are individuals who weren't born in the country.
I'll go back to this. Is there room for us to find efficiencies whereby information is shared with other departments that we can blend into the work you are doing? To me, what Mr. Lawrence raised was very valid. The conversation was around organizations in the non-profit sector doing a lot of work, but would IRCC not have a lot of this information that could be shared with CRA?
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-05-04 12:45
There is definitely room for improvement, and as a matter of fact we are speaking to IRCC right now and trying to figure out what kind of information sharing would be possible and what could be automated, with a view to helping people as much as possible to get the benefits they are entitled to.
View Majid Jowhari Profile
Lib. (ON)
Okay.
You talked about the long-term pan-Canadian health data strategy. Can you take the 10 seconds I have left to talk about what you mean by that strategy?
Chantal Richard
View Chantal Richard Profile
Chantal Richard
2021-04-26 15:56
I would just say that the pan-Canadian data strategy is meant to incorporate the information-sharing pieces but also the IT infrastructure, and having those systems speak to one another so that the information is shared more readily as well. The strategy would cover both of those elements.
Iain Stewart
View Iain Stewart Profile
Iain Stewart
2021-04-20 11:17
Thank you, Madam Chair, for the invitation to discuss the Auditor General's performance audit of pandemic preparedness and response. Foremost, we'd like to thank the Auditor General for her work and that of her team. We're pleased that she recognized the efforts of the public service to mobilize, adapt and respond to the COVID-19 pandemic.
Our top priority, as you can imagine, is supporting Canada's response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and we are committed to incorporating the lessons learned to better our actions now and to prepare for future pandemics.
The Public Health Agency of Canada accepts all of the recommendations in the Auditor General's report, and we are already organizing ourselves to respond to those recommendations. A formal and detailed action plan has been developed and will be implemented within two years of the pandemic's ending. We're making progress on implementing the plan, but it may take longer than it would under normal circumstances, as many of the people involved in activities with the pandemic are, of course, the people who also need to turn their attention to the report's recommendations.
The Auditor General's report covered the period of January 1, 2020 to June 30, 2020. Since June 2020, of course, the pandemic has continued, and in fact we're in a third wave right now which is very serious. We have taken further actions in some of the areas touched on by the OAG, and therefore some of these things help inform our response to the recommendations.
With respect to, for instance, the recommendations on public health data and information sharing across Canadian jurisdictions, in October 2020, the Public Health Agency implemented a national COVID-19 public health data portal. This supports COVID-19 data collection, sharing and management. We're also working with federal, provincial and territorial partners on a pan-Canadian health data strategy.
On the early detection of public health events, an independent review of the Global Public Health Intelligence Network, GPHIN, is currently under way to ensure that it meets today's public health needs but also looking at its role in global and domestic public health surveillance going forward. We expect a final report and recommendations from this independent review later this spring. The advice and guidance from the Auditor General as well as the work of this review will inform our way forward in this area.
With respect to COVID-19 border measures, the Public Health Agency and the Canada Border Services Agency work very closely together— hand in glove. CBSA expanded its support for frontline border services officers beyond existing operational guideline bulletins with 24-7 live support and regular case reviews. CBSA also supports the Quarantine Act emergency order-in-council measures by conducting detailed technical briefings prior to their implementation to ensure they're well done. CBSA also monitors emergency order-related decisions by border services officers and is developing a training tool to help the border services officers implement the orders in council.
Finally, related to COVID-19 mandatory quarantine administration, in November 2020, PHAC transitioned to mandatory submission of contact information and quarantine plans via the ArriveCAN mobile app and website. This has significantly improved the collection of traveller information and has also supported the verification of compliance with the mandatory requirements.
PHAC's response to the pandemic, therefore, has evolved and been informed at each step by what is the evidence available, the science, the epidemiology, the expert opinions. These can and do change as information and knowledge about the virus and how best to fight it become available.
There are and will continue to be lessons for PHAC. These are lessons we learn through discussions like this. These are lessons we learn from watching how others are dealing with the pandemic. We continue to learn and adjust our approach as we work to respond to this and future global health events. Along with other audits, evaluations and lessons learned from the response, we are looking forward to continuing to improve the work of PHAC.
Thank you for the time.
View Kody Blois Profile
Lib. (NS)
View Kody Blois Profile
2021-04-20 11:29
Mr. Stewart, as the deputy minister for PHAC, how is that information generally disseminated? It's clear for me, or at least in what the Auditor General has said, that we have a bit of a legacy issue in this country, perhaps around our constitutionality, where there doesn't seem to be an easy transfer of information between the federal government and the provinces as it relates to health care. How generally is this health surveillance information shared?
Iain Stewart
View Iain Stewart Profile
Iain Stewart
2021-04-20 11:30
A lot of the information is gathered and made public by the provinces and territories themselves in their reporting. We do have data-sharing agreements and relationships. For instance, right now, during the vaccine rollout, they are providing us weekly updates on the coverage of the different populations that they are vaccinating and so on, but as you just said, quite insightfully, it is an area of federal-provincial jurisdiction, so these arrangements are arrived at collaboratively.
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
Lib. (ON)
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
2021-04-20 12:13
Thank you.
I know that you're also using other contracted labs, including a lab in Guelph, Ontario—which is my riding—so you're really building capacity at the time of a pandemic.
The test was going to happen in March 2020 that was scheduled from 2018, and now you're doing it in real time, so I'm actually going to add my compliments for the work that you're doing and for your answering the call and the challenge to stand up for Canadians.
However, yes, there are things that we need to improve.
I want to pivot over to the Auditor General, Madam Hogan. I'm concerned about paragraph 8.51 in your report, which says the following:
The Public Health Agency of Canada should, in collaboration with...provincial and territorial partners, finalize...annexes to the multi-lateral agreement to help ensure that it receives timely, complete, and accurate surveillance information from its partners. In addition, in collaboration with provinces and territories, the agency should set timelines for completing this agreement.
Another part of your report talks about incomplete information from provinces, which hindered the progress in interpretation of data by the Public Health Agency of Canada. I wonder about the work of the provincial auditors general in coordinating the next audits so that we can see what in their systems is working, what isn't working and how we could maybe collaborate on some of the data-sharing that's so critical. This would include data-sharing on vaccine rollout—which, as Mr. Stewart just said, is another responsibility—and the concern about not getting vaccines distributed properly throughout provinces and territories, which is within their mandate constitutionally to do. Could we look at that via an audit through the provincial organizations?
Karen Hogan
View Karen Hogan Profile
Karen Hogan
2021-04-20 12:15
The member's questions are always very involved. Let me try to answer all of those items.
I'll start, maybe, with the health surveillance information. Definitely, we saw throughout the audit that there was some difficulty in obtaining timely and complete information. I think we all have to acknowledge that the pandemic complicates matters and that, at times, provincial organizations were likely responding and couldn't always provide the information in the needed way. However, that information was needed to help evolve and alter the response.
What we found is that in only about 10% of the cases were symptoms included on the forms at the early stages of the pandemic, which really makes it difficult to understand how a virus might be evolving and how a nationwide response should be formulated.
View Pierre Paul-Hus Profile
CPC (QC)
Thank you.
Ms. Hogan, on page 39 of your report, there is a nice chart that shows the checks you did on people who were required to self-isolate. It shows that 46% of them did not comply with the quarantine order. In that regard, I would like to know if you did the checks for people who were coming into Quebec.
A few weeks ago, the Quebec Department of Public Safety said it did not have information about passengers arriving in Montreal, particularly from Toronto, because there was no exchange of information between the Quebec and Canadian departments of public safety to allow for follow-up. In Quebec, the RCMP is not involved in any of this.
If I understood correctly, no one could do checks on all passengers arriving in Quebec.
Karen Hogan
View Karen Hogan Profile
Karen Hogan
2021-04-20 12:46
The chart indicates that the Public Health Agency of Canada reported 40% of cases where individuals were at high risk of not following quarantine rules to law enforcement. I can't confirm whether we have done these audits for each province. Regardless, we found that only 40% of these cases were reported to law enforcement for follow-up.
View Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Profile
BQ (QC)
Let's talk about communication, since it's the foundation of how departments work. We know that there are sometimes a number of subgroups and employees. In May, after only a few months, we realized that people who were already receiving employment insurance benefits could obtain the Canada emergency response benefit.
What concrete steps could have been taken to consolidate the information?
In the end, the same job was done twice, and these people had already received benefits.
Karen Hogan
View Karen Hogan Profile
Karen Hogan
2021-04-15 12:25
It's a tough question. The deputy ministers may want to comment if you would like to ask them the question afterwards.
The information could have been shared a little earlier. As Mr. Flack said, there were some issues with the technological systems, but as soon as the information could be shared, it was. However, there's also the issue of access to other programs managed by the same department. The Canada Revenue Agency manages several programs, so it's also necessary to share information among the different groups within the department. Our office often sees this issue in its audits, which means that better communication and information sharing are needed. Sometimes it's really about technology issues and not a lack of willingness on the part of individuals.
View Philip Lawrence Profile
CPC (ON)
I just want to assure Mr. Blois that if he deems coverage necessary, that's fine. However, on my honour as a member, I will not be calling a vote in the last session, nor will anyone from our party, in the true spirit of public accounts. He can leave and rest assured.
I want to go through a specific case because I think it's actually emblematic and symptomatic of a bunch of things that went wrong. All that being said, I want this to be based on my knowledge that civil servants worked extremely hard and that a lot of these people on this call worked around the clock to make this happen. However, I want to express the challenges faced by a constituent.
This constituent applied for the CERB because based on the communications, he thought, as many did, that he was eligible. It turned out, due to a technicality, that he wasn't eligible. His accountant actually informed him of that. It wasn't through audit or otherwise.
He went to the CRA website—he has it all documented—three separate times, and three separate times, the CRA website was down. He finally gave up and said, “I'm going to do my duty as a citizen and make sure this money gets back before the end of the year.“ He then went to the bank, where he was told, “Oh, yeah; you just pay that to ESDC.” He paid it to ESDC, and then he got a nasty letter from CRA saying he wasn't eligible to get this money, he hadn't paid it back, and he had to pay it back now. On top of that, they were taxing him on that money. He then contacted ESDC and said, “I want that money back, please. I told CRA I paid it, but it's at ESDC.”
ESDC has no idea. We're now in week eight of trying to get that money back. We've had no response. I've personally talked to two or three different civil servants. He has talked to about 15 different civil servants. He has called the CRA more times than you can imagine. He's been put on hold for hours and he's been hung up on multiple times.
I bring this to your attention because there are a number of challenges. At one point, the official laughed and said, “Oh, there are thousands of people with that problem.”
He's tried to do the right thing all the way along. He handed $14,000 to the government and it won't give it back to him. Could someone from either the CRA or ESDC comment on that, please?
Cliff C. Groen
View Cliff C. Groen Profile
Cliff C. Groen
2021-04-15 13:09
Thank you for the question. I'll go first, and maybe colleagues from CRA would follow
I very much regret to hear the challenges that your constituent has gone through. Certainly we try—and in the vast majority of situations are able—to provide very timely service to Canadians. That is what we are here for. I sincerely regret hearing in particular about your constituent. Perhaps through the committee you would be able to provide us with the specific name of that client. I can absolutely commit that we will follow up directly with him to try to address his situation as quickly as possible.
Karen Hogan
View Karen Hogan Profile
Karen Hogan
2021-04-13 12:09
Madam Chair, I am pleased to be here to discuss our audit reports, which were tabled in the House of Commons on March 25. I am accompanied by Carol McCalla, Philippe Le Goff, Chantal Richard, Jo Ann Schwartz and Nicholas Swales, the principals who were responsible for the audits.
The reports presented were the first of many audits that my office will conduct on the government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic. I also provided Parliament with our report on the Investing in Canada plan.
There is no doubt that the COVID-19 pandemic was an all-hands-on-deck emergency the world over. Governments had to mobilize quickly to respond to the public, health, social and economic effects of this pandemic. Canada was no exception.
While we found that the government was not as ready as it could have been for a pandemic of this magnitude, the public service mobilized, prioritized the needs of Canadians, and quickly delivered support and services. We did not observe the same service mindset and interdepartmental coordination in our audit of the investing in Canada plan, which I will turn to first.
The investing in Canada plan is important because the government is investing $188 billion to generate long-term economic growth, improve communities' resiliency, support the transition to a green economy, and improve social inclusion and socio-economic outcomes for all Canadians.
Infrastructure Canada is unable to present a full picture of results achieved and progress made under the investing in Canada plan. We found that the department's reporting excluded almost half of the government's investment because it did not capture more than $92 billion of funding that was committed before the plan's creation in 2016.
In addition, Infrastructure Canada's reporting captured only some programs each year, making it impossible to compare results year over year. The clarity of reporting was also impacted by inconsistent information received from federal partners in the plan. The absence of clear and complete reporting on the Investing in Canada plan makes it difficult for parliamentarians and Canadians to know whether progress is being made against the intended objectives.
The issues affecting the Investing in Canada plan are not new. We have seen similar problems in many past audits in areas that require cross-departmental or cross-jurisdictional collaboration, such as indigenous issues and climate change. This audit is yet another example of the need for the government to act on known issues—in this case, the need for broad collaboration and clear reporting on results for this large initiative.
In contrast, we observed nimbleness during our audits of the government's COVID-19 response.
I am going to turn first to the Canada emergency response benefit.
With this benefit, the government wanted to quickly deliver financial support to eligible individuals.
We found that the Department of Finance Canada, Employment and Social Development Canada, and the Canada Revenue Agency rose to the challenge and quickly analyzed, designed and delivered the Canada emergency response benefit.
To simplify the process and get support to people quickly, Employment and Social Development Canada and the Canada Revenue Agency took the approach of relying on personal attestations and automated prepayment controls to validate applicants' eligibility. Once the benefit was launched, they introduced additional prepayment controls to limit potential abuse.
With the decision to rely on personal attestations, host payment verification becomes very important. Employment and Social Development Canada and the Canada Revenue Agency are working to start their post-payment verification efforts related to the Canada emergency response benefit later this year. Their work in this area will be the subject of a future audit.
I will turn now to the Canada emergency wage subsidy. We observed a similar focus on getting help out quickly, in this case to businesses. Once again, the Department of Finance Canada and the Canada Revenue Agency worked together within short time frames to support the development and implementation of the Canada emergency wage subsidy.
The design and rollout of the subsidy highlighted pre-existing weaknesses in the agency's systems, approaches and data. These weaknesses will need to be addressed to improve the robustness of Canada's tax system.
To prioritize issuing payments, the Canada Revenue Agency made decisions about the information it would ask for and the prepayment controls it would use.
For example, the agency decided that it would not ask for social insurance numbers, though this information could have helped prevent the doubling up of applications for financial support. This decision limited the agency's ability to perform prepayment validations, as did the absence of complete and up-to-date tax information that would have helped it efficiently assess applications.
I am going to now turn to our last audit, which focused on pandemic preparedness, surveillance and border control measures.
In this audit, we found that the Public Health Agency of Canada was not as well-prepared as it could have been to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic. Not all emergency and response plans were up to date or tested, and data-sharing agreements with the provinces and territories were not finalized.
The Public Health Agency relied on a risk assessment tool that was untested and not designed to consider pandemic risk. The agency continued to assess the risk as low, despite growing numbers of COVID-19 cases in Canada and worldwide. In addition, the Global Public Health Intelligence Network did not issue an alert about the virus that would become known as causing COVID-19.
I am discouraged that the Public Health Agency of Canada did not address long-standing issues, some of which had been raised repeatedly for more than two decades. These issues negatively affected the sharing of surveillance data between the agency and the provinces and territories during the pandemic. While the agency took steps to address some of these problems during the pandemic, it has much more work to do on its data-sharing agreements and its information technology infrastructure to better support national disease surveillance in the future.
We also found that the Public Health Agency of Canada and the Canada Border Services Agency implemented restrictions at the border as well as quarantine measures. They provided guidance and tools to inform travellers and essential workers coming into the country of public health requirements.
However, the Public Health Agency of Canada had not contemplated or planned for a quarantine on a nationwide scale, from the collection of travellers' information through to all enforcement activities, including following up on those identified to be at risk of non-compliance. As a result, the agency does not know if the majority of travellers properly quarantined.
These audits looked at programs that were rolled out in record time. Faced with a pandemic, the public service focused on the pressing outcome: helping Canadians.
In its first year, the pandemic has shown that when the public service must, the public service can. This crisis has highlighted the importance of dealing with known issues, whether it's agreeing on which organization has the lead; who will do what, and when; who will report what, and to whom; or replacing outdated systems or processes and addressing issues in data quality.
These are not problems that you want to have to deal with at the same time that you are focusing on helping people, because this is not an efficient way of working, nor is it a productive way to serve Canadians. Government organizations need to do collaboration better.
Madam Chair, this concludes my opening statement. We are now pleased to answer questions that you may have.
Thank you.
View Brian Masse Profile
NDP (ON)
View Brian Masse Profile
2021-04-08 15:51
I'm just looking for the status for us and the United States in sharing information related to privacy rights for the use of autonomous vehicles and trucks between Canada and the United States. For them to operate in both jurisdictions, we need to have comprehensive data and privacy management plans and also cost-sharing with regard to those plans. Otherwise, they'll be comprised and won't be able to work.
I'm just wondering if you can update us on what's going on with that. We want to do the same things with batteries, but if we don't do that with data management and autonomous vehicles, they'll become useless on each side of the border.
View Marc Garneau Profile
Lib. (QC)
I'm going to put on my old Transport hat, because that was very much something that I was engaged in with the Secretary of Transportation in the United States. Where we harmonize with respect to regulations, we were indeed talking about the whole concept of autonomous vehicles and the very critical issue of privacy rights because of the environment in which autonomous vehicles would be operating.
I can assure you that for both Canada and the United States, when we talk about autonomous vehicles, we're not just talking about regulations with respect to how they operate. Because of the nature of autonomous vehicles, we're both very sensitive to privacy rights. That is part of the discussion that my successor, Minister Alghabra, is currently engaged in with Secretary Buttigieg.
View Kerry-Lynne Findlay Profile
CPC (BC)
Thank you.
The NFL's written submission to our committee detailed the importance of requiring official league data to protect consumers and ensure integrity in the sports betting marketplace. In your view, is this necessary? If it is, why?
Keith Wachtel
View Keith Wachtel Profile
Keith Wachtel
2021-03-23 11:22
We think that it's important for all sports books or anyone who is involved in the ecosystem to use the league's data. That is the verified data. I think it provides consumers with the feeling of authenticity and that it's backed by the property where the data's coming from.
We have noticed in the United States that all of the sports betting companies are securing that data directly from either the league or from third parties like Sportradar. They are happy to do so because they want the ability to provide the best information to the public in an authentic way.
We support it whether it is part of the regulations or not. We do believe that all the sports books will want to secure the league's data.
View Kerry-Lynne Findlay Profile
CPC (BC)
Without divulging specific parties or confidential negotiations, have you already been in some talks to license official league data in Canada?
Keith Wachtel
View Keith Wachtel Profile
Keith Wachtel
2021-03-23 11:23
No, we have not.
Having said that, from a sports betting standpoint, as part of our relationship with Rogers Media corporation, which has our exclusive rights to broadcast NHL games, Rogers has the rights to the league's data. They get all of those rights directly through us. We're obviously very pleased with the relationship that we have with Rogers.
If this bill gets passed, obviously we will then work with both Rogers and other parties in this area to make sure that anyone who is participating legally in sports betting would be able to access that data.
View Randall Garrison Profile
NDP (BC)
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'd like to return for a moment to where I left off, when I ran out of time last time, in terms of the records of these investigations.
My question is a fairly simple one, Mr. Novak. In a briefing of an incoming Prime Minister's chief of staff or deputy chief of staff, would information about the concerns regarding the appointment of the chief of the defence staff have been made available to the incoming Prime Minister's Office, or would it have been available if they sought such information?
Ray Novak
View Ray Novak Profile
Ray Novak
2021-03-22 11:59
Obviously, I can't speak specifically to what briefings the incoming Prime Minister would have received. In my experience those briefings are very thorough and very detailed. Obviously, I do believe if a prime minister or a minister or a senior political staff member made inquiries of the Privy Council, they would have the ability to find out information pertaining to the appointment that had been made.
View Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Profile
BQ (QC)
I understand that in order to prepare your reports, you need to have data, and that data comes from the different departments.
How is the communication going? Are you getting responses according to the timeline that you set? Is the communication meeting your expectations?
Karen Hogan
View Karen Hogan Profile
Karen Hogan
2021-03-11 12:24
Yes and no. Honestly, it depends on the departments and how committed they are to the pandemic response. There are certainly some delays in getting information out.
As I mentioned earlier, there are only 24 hours in a day, and a lot of people in the departments are very busy. From time to time, audits that we would like to complete have to be pushed back. It's not a big problem right now, but it does require us to be flexible and sometimes replace those audits with others on different topics.
View Lenore Zann Profile
Lib. (NS)
I would appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Director Vigneault and RCMP Commissioner Lucki, this question is for both of you.
We've heard about the challenges your agencies faced quite a while back, in the 2010s, about sharing information with one another, bringing intelligence and completing it into evidence. Time has elapsed since then. I'm just wondering if you could inform us as to how your organizations are working better now to share information on threats that are identified...in order to be held accountable as necessary.
Brenda Lucki
View Brenda Lucki Profile
Brenda Lucki
2021-02-25 20:08
I could start, and then I'll pass it over to you because you are very good at this.
We have a working group and we did a complete operational review on intel to evidence between our two agencies. We hired outsiders. There are several recommendations that included different things we can do so that we can use that type of intel for evidence.
I will pass it over to David to go into the specifics of that.
David Vigneault
View David Vigneault Profile
David Vigneault
2021-02-25 20:08
Thank you, Commissioner Lucki.
It is a very complex issue. We have the rule of law in Canada. We have the right of the people who are accused to have the information known to them. But when we have intelligence and are using very sensitive sources, we also have a need to protect this information. If not, we will not be able to continue to do intelligence operations in the future ourselves or to receive information from our partners.
It is a very complex issue. I would not want to leave the committee with the impression that everything has been resolved.
But under Commissioner Lucki's leadership, we have done a lot of work to push the envelope. The working group that she talked about on the operational improvement review has generated very specific ideas. We have the expertise of a former deputy minister of justice to oversee the work, and one of the leading defence attorneys with the proper clearance to review our processes and challenge both the RCMP and CSIS to go into all of the aspects, including cultural aspects, that will impede the information exchange.
I have to say this is still a work in progress. Unfortunately, more work remains to be done.
View Charlie Angus Profile
NDP (ON)
Have you watched any of this testimony of what we're studying here? We're studying Pornhub-MindGeek. They aren't one of your partners.
You get your information from NCMEC. Is that correct?
Kashif Pirzada
View Kashif Pirzada Profile
Kashif Pirzada
2021-02-22 12:07
As an emergency physician in Toronto, I've seen many people unfortunately pass away from COVID. I was also a key member of Conquer COVID-19, a community group that helped source PPE at the start of the crisis, and Masks4Canada, which successfully advocated for mask-wearing bylaws across the country.
My attitude, and that of many of my colleagues, is that we have a mess here, but let's see what we can do to fix it and save lives. That's how we approach our patients and that's how we should approach this crisis.
Drug and vaccine shortages are not a new issue. They've only been made worse now in this pandemic. It has been an ongoing health security issue for over a decade now in Canada.
In August 2020, we sent an open letter to the Prime Minister's Office detailing our concerns and highlighting some realistic and cost-effective solutions to include domestic manufacturing. The letter is co-signed by the Canadian Medical Association, the Ontario Medical Association and many other national bodies.
Our current vaccine shortage shares a common route with drug shortages: the lack of dependable and scalable domestic manufacturing. We have the following three recommendations.
One, Canada needs local production of drugs and vaccines. mRNA is a new technology that has incredible potency in fighting COVID-19, cancers and possibly other viruses. When I was a lab student 20 years ago, this stuff was science fiction, and the advances made are just incredible. With virus variants, we all need periodic boosters, possibly for years, as we do with the flu. We have the expertise, from the testimony we heard earlier, from companies such as Acuitas and Providence Therapeutics that can make it here. It is also the promise of second-generation genetic vaccines that can induce longer immunity, and these companies are working on it, the ones that we spoke to.
It's great that federal funding is flowing to these companies now, but this support needs to continue. This is a nascent industry, and the technology underlying it is going to revolutionize pharmaceuticals, cancer care and agriculture. It's crucial that we get on board now. It's great that it's also in the provinces that are losing other traditional industries. These are thousands of high-quality jobs. Therefore, it's a win-win for the country.
Our second point is that science coordination and communication needs to improve in this country. We are losing a head-to-head comparison with the U.K., the U.S., Israel and many other countries. The U.K. was able to mobilize a unified effort across industry, academia and government and had a cabinet-level post of vaccine minister.
I'll give you an example just from my personal history. I, along with half of my U of T class in 2003, was quarantined during SARS after inadvertent exposures. Many of us survivors from that time have been trying to get attention on issues such as PPE, drugs and vaccines, but there's no one to talk to, no network to access and no way to warn the government about what we knew was coming back in 2020. We need to involve grassroots frontline providers, scientists and industry leaders in a regular network of advisory groups like the U.K. does. Get the meetings online, make them public, get the deliberations public and that's how you share information freely.
Our third point is that we have some grave concerns from the front lines on the vaccine scale-up and rollout. The rollout so far to health care workers has been fairly chaotic. Many rural providers have not gotten their doses. If the government can't get this right with a smaller population like that, what are the chances it's going to work for 37 million Canadians?
We should keep things simple, as the U.K. has done. Avoid overly complex criteria and tell the public about plans. Be transparent. Who is getting it, when and where? Focus on the most important thing of all, which is getting vaccines into people's arms as quickly as possible.
Another point we've discovered is that community providers have not been engaged in the vaccine rollout so far. Family physicians and pharmacists can deliver millions of doses a week, but they're not involved. They have access to and good insight into vulnerable patients and communities, unlike others.
Another frontline insight is that some have been able to squeeze extra half doses out the Moderna vials and combine them into a single dose, but they are being discarded right now because there's no approval for unorthodox procedures like that. However, in a crisis such this, we should look at any option.
Our final point on the vaccine rollout is that we should seriously consider giving a single dose of the vaccine to as many Canadians as possible. Just today, we have seen seven schools in B.C. closed because of outbreaks and likely airborne spread of the South African variant, which is widespread in the city of Toronto now, in Mississauga. Variants are spreading quickly: in my own hospital log, a dozen last week and five more today. They're more contagious and likely airborne.
We should take pride that we've vaccinated many long-term care patients. However, we are discounting the long-term consequences of even mild COVID-19 infections on younger populations. We should not assume that if they only get mild or moderate illness they're fine. In fact, 15% of them will get what's called “long COVID syndrome”. They'll have memory issues, chronic pain and chronic fatigue, and this will last possibly for years. They won't be able to go to school or work in their jobs. Normally healthy, able-bodied people will have their quality of life ruined and forced onto long-term disability at extreme cost to themselves and their families, and this might even affect children. Imagine if 15% of our children couldn't taste anything or had chronic pain and were unable to go to school.
In summary, as frontline workers battling this pandemic, we recommend that we build vaccine and drug capacity in Canada, we improve communication with frontline workers, decision-makers, and finally we ensure we have an effective vaccine rollout and protect as many as Canadians as quickly as possible with the first dose of the vaccine.
Thank you very much.
View Gabriel Ste-Marie Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, everyone. I'm very happy to be with you all this afternoon.
Since 1992, Revenu Québec has been collecting both the Quebec sales tax, or QST, and the goods and services tax, or GST, which works very well. Until now, Ottawa has refused to entrust Revenu Québec with the collection of federal income tax. As a result, Quebeckers are the only taxpayers in Canada who must file two tax returns. The double tax return entails significant costs for citizens and businesses, in addition to complications related to the need to contact two offices.
Citizens would benefit from filling out a single tax return. This would result in savings of $425 million a year, according to the Research Institute on Self-Determination of Peoples and National Independence, or the IRAI. This includes $39 million for individuals who rely on professionals to prepare their tax returns, $99 million for businesses and $287 million in overlap costs.
Quebec currently has access to foreign tax information only insofar as its international tax rules are modelled on the federal rules. By entering into a collection agreement with Ottawa, Quebec will obtain direct access to foreign tax information. This will enable Quebec to fight against tax havens independently, rather than having to copy the federal legislation, which contains several loopholes in this area.
You'll recall that there's a consensus on the bill in Quebec. The National Assembly unanimously passed a resolution to this effect. The Liberal Party, Coalition Avenir Québec, Québec solidaire and the Parti Québécois are unanimous. In addition, the Legault government made a formal request to the Prime Minister. The polls show widespread public support. Everything known as “Quebec Inc.” supports the idea: representatives of the chambers of commerce; the Conseil du patronat du Québec, or CPQ; independent businesses; the Ordre des comptables professionnels agréés du Québec, or CPA; and so on. There are also some unions, such as the Syndicat de la fonction publique et parapublique du Québec, or SFPQ; and the Centrale des syndicats du Québec, or CSQ.
The bill includes the following three components:
First, it would authorize the Minister of Finance to enter into an agreement with the government of a province in order to allow that province to collect the federal personal and corporation income taxes on behalf of the Government of Canada.
Second, it would require the Minister of Finance—within 90 days of the bill receiving royal assent—to undertake discussions with the government of Quebec in order to enter into such an agreement within one year.
Third, it would require the Minister of Finance to undertake negotiations with the tax authorities of other jurisdictions so that the government of the relevant province has access to all the tax information necessary to implement the agreement directly with those tax authorities.
The jobs issue is extremely important.
I want to remind the committee that the federal public service is understaffed and overly concentrated in Ottawa. I'm asking the government, represented here by Mr. Fraser, to maintain the number of public service jobs in the Shawinigan and Jonquière regions, within the agency, which will always have a role, or within other departments.
In closing, I want to quote Vincent Marissal, the MNA for Rosemont and Québec solidaire's finance, taxation and revenue critic.However, in addition to all these very valid arguments, one fact remains: for Québec solidaire, and for all Quebeckers, the single tax managed here, by us and for us, is more than a mere logistical or accounting matter. It's a matter of national dignity.
This concludes my presentation.
I'd be happy to answer your questions.
View Gabriel Ste-Marie Profile
BQ (QC)
Yes, absolutely. In addition, Revenu Québec will forward the relevant information to the Canada Revenue Agency regarding all possible payments.
View Peter Julian Profile
NDP (BC)
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you again, Mr. Ste-Marie.
I strongly disagree with Ms. Dzerowicz, who just said that the federal government has taken some steps to counter tax evasion. As you know, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has already told us that $25 billion a year escapes from the Canada Revenue Agency because it ends up in tax havens. Why is that? Because, as we know, the government has never provided these officials with the tools they need. We were told that this summer and I know you are aware of that, Mr. Ste-Marie.
Officials said they could not reach a single person or large company mentioned in the Panama Papers, the Bahamas Leaks or other documents containing information related to tax havens because they lacked the legislative and administrative tools necessary to counter massive tax evasion, which costs us at least $25 billion each year.
Mr. Ste-Marie, can you tell us how we could change this situation?
On the other hand, one sometimes hears criticism of the information-sharing agreements that are currently in place with Canada. Could you tell us how this information would be transmitted under a single tax reporting system?
View Gabriel Ste-Marie Profile
BQ (QC)
Mr. Julian, thank you for your comments.
I totally agree with you.
Like you, I believe that the illegal and immoral use of tax havens is a gross injustice. Why can the wealthiest and the multinationals use these systems with impunity?
Quebec held a parliamentary commission on the use of tax havens and one of its major conclusions was that the power is in Ottawa. Even if Quebec wanted to do more, it is very limited since it does not have access to information abroad.
This is the bet I'm making. If this bill is passed, Quebec will have the power to do more against tax evasion or tax avoidance. It could certainly inspire Ottawa to do the same, as it has done with subsidized child care programs and pharmacare. These are Quebec projects that you are pursuing. Quebec also collects QST from the Web giants, and Ottawa is now getting ready to do the same. This could prod Ottawa to move forward on tax havens.
At present, even if the Quebec National Assembly has the will to act, it does not have the power to do so since it does not have access to the exchange of information. However, the system would be fairly simple to put in place and the issue could be resolved by the adoption of this bill.
If we compare what Americans are doing about the Panama Papers and the Paradise Papers...
View Gabriel Ste-Marie Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First, I would like to acknowledge the officials from the Canada Revenue Agency and from the Department of Finance, Ms. Laroche, Mr. Marsland and their colleagues.
Thank you, Mr. Marsland, for beginning your presentation in French. We're very grateful.
Ms. Laroche, as the Chair pointed out, it seems that you have a weak Internet connection. We can't always understand your answers very well. Nevertheless, I have two questions for you. First, however, I will make a brief comment.
The Robillard Commission was obviously very partisan. The Liberal government and the opposition parties dismissed that recommendation.
Ms. Laroche, in your presentation, you said: Convincing our partners to make changes to include other subnational tax administrations is not a given.
Let's take as an example the Canada-United States Convention with Respect to Taxes, which provides for the exchange of tax information between competent authorities.
Paragraph (g) and subparagraph (i) of article III state the following:
g) The term competent authority means: (i) In the case of Canada, the Minister of National Revenue or his authorized representative;
So with respect to agreements, the Minister of National Revenue decides to whom she gives authorization. The same goes for all tax treaties and tax information exchange agreements. All the minister has to do is inform the United States or other countries.
What would stop her from doing so? Does she have reason to believe that foreign countries would refuse to honour the treaty they signed because they do not like the person the minister authorized to speak?
Mireille Laroche
View Mireille Laroche Profile
Mireille Laroche
2021-02-16 18:34
Thank you for the question.
I will respond, but I will also invite my colleague Mr. Marsland to comment, since the Department of Finance negotiates these treaties. Our role is to administer them. We each play a role in this area.
Our interaction with foreign authorities is governed by over 100 international agreements. With respect to your interpretation, I'm not in a position to say whether or not the United States would accept our delegation. That is a question we would have to ask them. Customs and traditions dictate that it usually remains at the national level. So these are national agreements, not subnational agreements.
If Mr. Marsland wishes to add something, I will give him the floor.
Miodrag Jovanovic
View Miodrag Jovanovic Profile
Miodrag Jovanovic
2021-02-16 18:35
Maybe I can answer.
I will give you some context. I think it would be useful.
Canada is a signatory to approximately 120 international tax treaties and information exchange agreements. Close to a third of those agreements contain clauses that, in certain situations, may allow the federal competent authority—the Canada Revenue Agency, in this case—to exchange some information with a subnational authority, to the extent that determination of a basic change at the federal level has direct implications at the provincial level. Exceptions in some of the existing treaties permit such an exchange.
These exceptions were created and agreed to by the various parties, and were based on the way the current federal-provincial tax system is set up. In the event of a decentralization of the federal system that would give administrative power to one province, it's not clear whether the rules of the treaties would be interpreted in the same way. It could require further negotiations.
As I said before, this applies to about a third of our agreements. The other agreements contain no similar exceptions.
View Gabriel Ste-Marie Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you very much.
In my opinion, the solution is quite simple. Amendments are made by exchanging letters, as was done when Revenue Canada became the Canada Revenue Agency.
Ms. Laroche, you were saying that most benefit programs that the agency administers for other departments and agencies, such as the guaranteed income supplement, the GST rebate and the Canada child benefit, are based on the information in tax returns. You state that, since a return has to be produced to show eligibility for the benefits, it is not possible to administer those benefit programs without tax information.
If the agreement between Quebec and Canada allows Quebec to send to Ottawa a copy of the tax information for its taxpayers, will the agency have the information it needs about their previous years' income, which it uses as a basis for paying out the benefits? Does it have any reason to believe that Quebec would not be able to comply with an agreement between Quebec and Canada on exchanging information?
Mireille Laroche
View Mireille Laroche Profile
Mireille Laroche
2021-02-16 18:38
Thank you for the question.
As I said in my answer to the previous question, the issue is one of procedure. Information is exchanged every day between various departments, including between the different levels of government. Technology allows that.
The modalities of the agreement, and where the administration would be done, must be clear. It must be clear when federal administration would come into play and where provincial administration would step back, and vice versa.
Then, if it turned out to be more of a technical modality, it would have to be clear how the exchanges would be made, in order to make sure that there were no interruptions. We also have to consider the ability to make changes quickly, if required. Just think of the situation we experienced during the COVID-19 pandemic when, in the space of a few weeks, amounts were increased in order to help Canadians. Naturally, it would involve additional costs, depending on the arrangement that is negotiated.
View Philip Lawrence Profile
CPC (ON)
Thank you very much.
I'd like to thank the witnesses. I am used to having marauding children and poor rural Internet, so I understand the challenges. I appreciate that, and the interpreter as well has done a terrific job through some choppy Internet, so thank you.
I'm thinking of a phrase I heard in my childhood, which is that water can't get any more wet. When I look at the CRA.... One of the things that you're presenting to us is the fact that if we put the provincial in there, the coordination would be impossible. It would be difficult, at least, which could cause things like systems not talking to each other. Systems like the CRA are not able to talk to ESDC, preventing people who are in desperate need of benefits from getting them because these two systems can't talk, systems that have people online for literally hours waiting desperately to get [Inaudible—Editor] that cost thousands of dollars...the CRA cannot respond to. Water cannot get any more wet, is the response.
When we look at these things, miscommunications like not being able to tell people whether CERB benefits are based on gross or net, when we look at these failures, how much worse could it get if Quebec was involved? I have trouble fathoming it. Despite these billions of dollars that the parliamentary secretary talked about that are in there, the CRA is failing Canadians, and I find it challenging to see how this water can get any more wet. Maybe you could expand on that for me.
View Philip Lawrence Profile
CPC (ON)
My question is this. We're in 2021. We have software that's spectacular, that can do everything, that can make cars drive by themselves, but we can't have software that can allow a province to talk to a federal tax collector. I just find that unfathomable.
Mireille Laroche
View Mireille Laroche Profile
Mireille Laroche
2021-02-16 18:48
In terms of its administration, the tax system is extremely complex. If you just look at the law and also the different types of provisions, it is necessarily extremely complex, like a lot of systems. I would say that the CRA takes a lot of pride in the work that it does and actually invests significantly in making sure it updates the system and provides the best service it can to Canadians.
Ultimately, what we're talking about is that we have established processes, we have established connections and we have established systems. If we take a part of the administration and we tell somebody else to do it, we need to unwire and rewire. It is part of the fact that we have to create connections. That takes investment and it takes time to do.
View Philip Lawrence Profile
CPC (ON)
You understand my point there.
Thank you very much for that, Mr. Flack.
Moving on from there, Mr. Hamilton referred to an information-sharing agreement that's supposed to be in place in the spring of this year. Mr. Flack, you equivocated there a little bit.
Will we have that plan in place by the spring? What is the spring exactly? Is that March or Mary or when is that in 2021?
Graham Flack
View Graham Flack Profile
Graham Flack
2020-12-01 11:31
Yes, we have a tentative agreement now. The target is to get that signed in March. The reason it has taken time is that we had to negotiate this with the provinces as well, because they needed to be supportive of this. The other reason this has taken time is that sensitive tax information will be accessed by a third party provider who provides the loans. That has resulted in some extensive consultations with CRA to ensure that the full integrity of that information is protected.
That's been the reason for the delay.
View Peter Kent Profile
CPC (ON)
Thank you.
Mr. Hamilton, it's good to see you again, sir. It brings back memories of days at Environment Canada and on the China Council.
When you speak of the information-sharing protocol that's being developed with ESDC, what exactly are the mechanics that will better re-engage delinquent borrowers and encourage repayment activity?
Bob Hamilton
View Bob Hamilton Profile
Bob Hamilton
2020-12-01 12:00
Thank you, Madam Chair.
What we're trying to do is to make sure that the information that's at our disposal is shared with the [Technical difficulty--Editor] to help get a better picture of the financial [Technical difficulty--Editor] the individual.
Getting better data on previous tax filings, dependants and, obviously, income will help us make better decisions collectively about what we should do.
I'd just add to a point that Graham made that one of the reasons this can become time-consuming or more complicated is just to make sure we are protecting the privacy of the information we share. This always comes up when we share people's tax data.
[Technical difficulty--Editor] and we need to make sure that whatever we do respects that.
View Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I will start by putting my questions to the officials from the Canada Revenue Agency.
I was quite surprised to read this, in paragraph 8 of the brief from the Office of the Auditor General:
We also found that the Canada Revenue Agency did not have the tools it needed to maximize recovery once borrowers defaulted and student loans were transferred to the agency for collection. For example, the agency was using Employment and Social Development Canada’s information system, which made it impossible for the agency to know exactly how much money was recovered by its own different activities and collection methods.
Was there communication between Employment and Social Development Canada and the Canada Revenue Agency?
Bob Hamilton
View Bob Hamilton Profile
Bob Hamilton
2020-12-01 12:08
I am sorry, my microphone was not properly adjusted and it was difficult to hear, but I think I have fixed the problem.
In this context, it is important to recognize that this program is subject to rules that are different from the income tax system in general, for which the process of recovering amounts is easier. Certainly, we collaborate with ESDC to make sure that—
Bob Hamilton
View Bob Hamilton Profile
Bob Hamilton
2020-12-01 12:08
Okay, so I will carry on.
Certainly, we collaborate with ESDC to make sure that we have as much information as possible on the students from that point of view. However, the recovery process is different from the one for the income tax system. We do what we can, and I believe that that is what the Office of the Auditor General mentioned in its report.
View Peter Kent Profile
CPC (ON)
With regard to the recommendation regarding information sharing, were there specifics that you included with that recommendation that you could share with us, or was that a general proposal?
Karen Hogan
View Karen Hogan Profile
Karen Hogan
2020-12-01 12:26
No, it was a general proposal that stemmed from our finding that there were individuals who had revenue higher than the threshold and were admitted into the repayment assistance program, recognizing that having that historical information is just one piece of information you need and that, together, CRA and ESDC should share the information they need to make the best well-informed decision about who should be admitted and whether or not they should be given reduced payments.
View Francesco Sorbara Profile
Lib. (ON)
Thank you, Chair. It's great to be here this morning.
I have a first quick question for the CRA commissioner.
In terms of the opening remarks with regard to the specific audit recommendation, ESDC is working with the CRA to establish an information-sharing agreement, expected by the spring of 2021. Obviously, we know that COVID-19 has put a large burden and asked a lot from the CRA and its amazing employees, and I just want to confirm that it is still on track for the spring of 2021 and that an appropriate work plan has been developed and is still there.
Bob Hamilton
View Bob Hamilton Profile
Bob Hamilton
2020-12-01 12:32
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll take a stab at that, and my ESDC colleagues might want to add to it.
Yes, we have been in train of trying to get this information sharing done. As far as I'm aware, we're still on track for March. As I think Graham indicated earlier, COVID has changed the timing of some things and we've had to be adaptable and flexible, but my understanding is that we are on track.
View Michelle Rempel Garner Profile
CPC (AB)
Thank you, Chair.
With regard to the statement that the minister just made, data has been a problem, especially at the federal level. My question is for Mr. Lucas or Mr. Stewart.
Have your departments given the government any advice to use various legislative mechanisms? I know that there are some available under, for example, the Statistics Act, to compel the provinces to provide data to the federal government in a more meaningful way as it comes to collecting information on how COVID is being transmitted and the efficacy of various interventions with regard to preventing the spread.
Les Linklater
View Les Linklater Profile
Les Linklater
2020-11-20 14:23
We have been taking a very collaborative approach with provinces and territories around the collection and aggregation of data across the country, particularly as it relates to COVID-19, through the special advisory committee that was referenced earlier, which includes public health officials from across the country—
View Michelle Rempel Garner Profile
CPC (AB)
Thank you, Mr. Linklater. That wasn't the question I asked. I have a very short period of time, so I'll take that as no, there's been no advice to the government on using any sort of legislative mechanism to get that information in a federal repository. Is that correct?
Les Linklater
View Les Linklater Profile
Les Linklater
2020-11-20 14:24
Our focus has been on working collaboratively with provinces and territories.
View Michelle Rempel Garner Profile
CPC (AB)
This morning the Prime Minister suggested that businesses were better off because of lockdowns, and as a legislator, I've been trying to figure out, especially given the amount in these estimates, if the measures that have been put in place are actually working, especially given the projections on new caseloads.
I'm wondering if you could point me to any publicly available federal data that has been used—I guess this would be for Mr. Linklater—to suggest that repetitive COVID lockdown has a better impact on Canadian society than the negative societal impact of, let's say, job losses, mental health as was just discussed, or being separated from family.
I'm just trying to look at.... That's a big statement that was made this morning. Is there a publicly available repository of federal data, federally collected data, that I could use as a legislator to evaluate that statement?
Les Linklater
View Les Linklater Profile
Les Linklater
2020-11-20 14:28
If I understand correctly, the question is with regard to the use of data for the development of broader relief programs. Relief programming is beyond the ambit of the Department of Health. Many departments, including the Department of Finance and others, would be intimately involved in developing those types of programs, based on various datasets.
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