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Results: 121 - 135 of 2766
View Kelly McCauley Profile
CPC (AB)
Marnie Suitor
View Marnie Suitor Profile
Marnie Suitor
2021-06-09 19:31
That would be my wish or my suggestion. Why wouldn't we have indigenous inclusion throughout the country and throughout all of the procurement process? It could be scored somewhere in the criteria, with back-up documentation to prove it.
View Patrick Weiler Profile
Lib. (BC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My first question, through you, is to Mr. Ducharme.
You mentioned in your introductory remarks that you were leading different training seminars with OSME. I'm wondering if you've been able to track the effectiveness of those training sessions in terms of if and how they led to more success through the procurement process with some of the businesses that were involved.
Philip Ducharme
View Philip Ducharme Profile
Philip Ducharme
2021-06-09 19:32
We haven't done an evaluation on the successes of them, but we have had businesses that have said that they are applying. Again, some of these contracts take a long time. When we looked at the masks last year, it took, I think, two and a half to three months for it to be awarded. There are changes. I think the indigenous businesses are looking at the RFPs differently.
Mind you, you guys also make changes sometimes within the process. When the government went to the Ariba platform, we had done a training session on using Buyandsell, and everything was done. The first contract that the federal government did for the Ariba system was the indigenous-only business, and it was really hard for us to get in. Even the procurement officers at OSME were trying to go in to try to learn how to use the system.
I think what we've been trying to do is get them better equipped, and there have been more bids submitted, but we don't have the stats right now. We can find that out, though, and bring it back to you.
View Patrick Weiler Profile
Lib. (BC)
Thank you.
I have a general question for your opinion.
What level of awareness do you believe the federal government has on indigenous-owned capacity in different areas for procurement? I am just wondering if you see a need for that—maybe a training thing on the other side for the government—just to have a better understanding of where there are opportunities to work more with indigenous-owned companies.
Philip Ducharme
View Philip Ducharme Profile
Philip Ducharme
2021-06-09 19:34
I don't believe that a lot of the procurement officers do know the indigenous capacity that's out there. We did research on it when we were talking about 5% indigenous businesses that have the capacity to procure up to 24% of federal contracts. Most of these departments are not looking past.... There are certain requirements. Again, I don't want to comment on what the procurement managers are doing, but I think there is opportunity if they looked at it.
Again, when I went back to Defence Construction Canada, they were looking to see if that business—they might not see it right there—has the capacity, and they were exploring to see if that is happening.
View Patrick Weiler Profile
Lib. (BC)
Thank you.
One thing I want to touch on is outcomes-based procurement.
I understand there have been a few programs that the federal government has launched in this respect, including Innovative Solutions Canada, which was putting forward challenges designed to find novel solutions for products or services that weren't necessarily commercially available at the time. Treasury Board and PSPC had launched an agile procurement initiative more towards solving a particular problem rather than through lengthy RFPs. I'm just curious about your thoughts on where there may be some opportunities to do more of this.
I'd like to open this up to all of the three organizations that are here as witnesses. Do you see an opportunity to do more of that to engage indigenous-owned businesses in federal procurement?
Shannin Metatawabin
View Shannin Metatawabin Profile
Shannin Metatawabin
2021-06-09 19:36
I'd like to use an example that we heard about. Last summer, or maybe it was the fall before COVID hit, the defence department let out a 10-year clothing contract. This one would have been an ideal indigenous contract. It would have probably encapsulated a number of communities to be able to meet the needs of this procurement, if there had been some forward thinking, some planning, some will, and if we had a process in place to let us know that this was coming out. We know the defence department needs clothes. We know that it's coming out. We just need to know when it's going to be coming out so that we can work with our entrepreneurs to consolidate and coordinate a response and submit a bid.
I think this is what's lacking. The RFP just comes out, and you're expected to respond. In the indigenous case, they had already put in the effort and they saw nothing for it. For them being ready for these things, the trust has left the station. I think we need to build up that trust again, create an institution, provide the financing and business support services, and change the internal culture of the government in selecting indigenous businesses.
View Pierre Paul-Hus Profile
CPC (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
This is a very interesting meeting and we are learning a lot of things.
As the 2018 report said, one of the Conservatives' recommendations was to reduce red tape. You talked a lot about the computer problem and the fact that the applications were too complex. For some members of First Nations communities, computers are not as easy to understand. There is also a lot of red tape in all government processes. In fact, that is what the Conservatives tried to do when they were in government.
You said that the processes were complicated. Even non-indigenous businesses complain about problems accessing the processes. Would there be a way to simplify the way things are done?
What quick solution could the government adopt to resolve the issue right away? What stage of the process could be completely changed to facilitate everything?
I invite Mr. Sinclair to answer.
Donald (Rocky) Sinclair
View Donald (Rocky) Sinclair Profile
Donald (Rocky) Sinclair
2021-06-09 19:39
I certainly wish there was a simple answer, but just based on the discussion today, it's complicated. I don't have enough familiarity with procurement to be able to give you a firm answer in what that might be.
Lots of suggestions were made in testimony thus far. I think it's going to require collective change in a lot of different areas. I don't think there's a quick fix to it. There are a lot of things outside of simply changing the way the program operates. There are biases and stereotyping. All kinds of things factor into the inability of this program to be effective at this point.
View Pierre Paul-Hus Profile
CPC (QC)
That is a point that often comes up these days. There is often talk about systemic racism in the police and more or less everywhere. I am not saying that it doesn't exist. There is certainly a problem somewhere, if indigenous businesses are never accepted or selected and they don't know why.
I would hope that at the end of this meeting, you could say that it was worth it to take two or three hours of your time to appear here today. I hope that this meeting of our committee will benefit everyone and we will be able to make progress. As I said in my previous series of questions, often, there is often confrontation, and no progress is ever made.
The processes are one thing, yes, but what other solutions would there be? Mr. Sinclair has said that after two hours in the meeting, the conclusion was that everything was complex and we always come back to the basic problem, this kind of lack of trust between businesses in indigenous communities and the Government of Canada. Everyone talked about this at the outset. Certainly, I do not necessarily have the solution for you. I would hope that we have a magic solution to propose to you today.
That said, as I was saying, we want Canada to be more autonomous in terms of production and to depend less on countries like China, for example, which has been a serious problem in recent months.
Mr. Ducharme or Ms. Suitor, I would like to give you one last opportunity to make constructive comments.
Mr. Ducharme, I see you nodding your head.
Philip Ducharme
View Philip Ducharme Profile
Philip Ducharme
2021-06-09 19:42
Thank you, Mr. Paul-Hus.
I want to go back to where we talked about ensuring that indigenous procurement targets are in the departmental plans and every executive's professional management plan. I think if those are in place, then the ones who are doing the procurement will come forward with ideas as well, because then they have to do it. They're going to make the changes as well, because on these RFPs there will have to be something that's done for them, instead of having those RFPs set up so it's like a weeding-out system. I think that's something that can be done without legislation, and it would really help to increase the opportunities for our indigenous businesses.
View Steven MacKinnon Profile
Lib. (QC)
Thank you very much. It's a great honour for me to serve at this point in time in this government, which is committed to acting to get to 5% indigenous procurement.
It's a tortuous road, admittedly. As I think anyone encountering federal government procurement discovers, it is very detailed and very heavy at some times, and I fully understand how anyone new to this system or anyone who sometimes fears the level of detail would recoil. That's why I want to finish this round of questioning on a perhaps more hopeful note. I do note—and I want to return to this scene, because I think it's so important—this issue of trust that we explored.
As things currently stand, unless you're in a treaty organization, PSAB requires you to register. I think the government has shown all kinds of goodwill in supporting indigenous organizations in the establishment of an organization run by indigenous peoples that would have that level of trust, that would certify businesses as indigenous-owned and would provide that sort of one-stop shop for procurement.
I note that we have not heard from a couple of witnesses on this next point. I want to get your views on the importance of having indigenous leadership so that businesses can access the procurement system, and the best way of going about that. Who would like to go first?
Mr. Ducharme, would you comment?
Philip Ducharme
View Philip Ducharme Profile
Philip Ducharme
2021-06-09 19:46
Okay, sir. I thought you were maybe directing it to someone else, because I feel like I've been talking a lot.
On the trust issue, it does have to come from indigenous people for this to be happening. So many times when we're brought into the fold, we're told what's good for us.
As I said earlier, we've been working at CCAB on this for a number of years. It's a really big project, so it is great when Shannin talks about the groups that are coming together. I think that collectively we all have very many expertise areas that we can bring together. This does encompass a lot of different things. We haven't even looked at increasing employment with the procurement opportunities for indigenous businesses.
The trust does have to be there, and it has to be indigenous-led. As indigenous people, we've been told time after time what's good for us and what needs to be done. I think if the government is really committed to this, they will engage with us and have an open dialogue to make sure that this is going to happen and that we are leading the way.
View Steven MacKinnon Profile
Lib. (QC)
Perhaps let me ask this: Are you not sensing that will on the part of the government?
Results: 121 - 135 of 2766 | Page: 9 of 185

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