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Results: 61 - 75 of 2766
View Pierre Paul-Hus Profile
CPC (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Ducharme.
I am going to try to frame my question differently.
Might the trust problem be related to the fact that, for example, the government may have doubts about the quality of products made by indigenous businesses, and that if there is a quality problem, it has no remedy in the courts?
Do you think that might be a factor to explain why the government awards fewer contracts to indigenous businesses, Mr. Metatawabin?
Shannin Metatawabin
View Shannin Metatawabin Profile
Shannin Metatawabin
2021-06-09 18:34
Creating anything new within a colonial system in which anywhere from maybe only 10% to 15% of all employees within the government are people of colour is a big issue.
When you're asking a frontline manager to go away from what he's used to—which is going with what he knows—and to select an indigenous person, it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen unless you have real targets that force that to happen.
The only way indigenous people enter the corporate sector is when the corporations open a door by creating a training program, by creating summer student employment, by creating some sort of mechanism that allows an indigenous person to say, “Hey, there's an opportunity. I'm going to enter that door.” That's the only way it's going to happen. The government needs to do the same thing.
Twenty years ago, Rocky and I were working with the Aboriginal Business Canada program, trying to jump-start businesses. They were given that opportunity of procurement: “Procurement is going to be huge. Everybody, come to the door.” However, the problem was that they never created that awareness program or made it worth it for those frontline managers to make that change and select that indigenous person. All those people who were putting in proposal after proposal and getting noes and noes and noes went somewhere else. That's what happened.
It's happening again. During this COVID crisis, we were told that we were going to be part of the COVID response. We have indigenous entrepreneurs who invested, on first nations, in creating masks. Wiikwemkoong has a mask facility, creating three-ply masks. It has not received one government contract. That's where we stand.
Marnie Suitor
View Marnie Suitor Profile
Marnie Suitor
2021-06-09 18:36
If I might add to those comments, I do believe that trust is a huge element. A lot of the historical past is going to enter into this. Things that might not necessarily relate to the business world definitely come forward if you're an entrepreneur.
When we talk about quality, I would also say that has to do with concerns about whether or not there is hesitation on the capability to deliver. Whether it's perceived or not, or not a reality, the feeder system, the 5%—the weeding-out process, as Mr. Ducharme phrased it—is of real concern. It sometimes appears as if the system is set up to enable indigenous businesses to fail. Rather than being perceived as “how can we get you through the process?”, it's perceived as a futile exercise.
View Steven MacKinnon Profile
Lib. (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Perhaps I'll direct the first question to you, Mr. Sinclair.
I want to pick up on something that Mr. McCauley said earlier. I want to honour the work that I know all of you have been involved in with respect to developing the indigenous procurement strategy of the Government of Canada. There have been so many working sessions and dialogues.
One of you referenced OSME and the good outreach work that's going on. We saw the budget contain some $87 million over five years to advance, among other things, the indigenous procurement strategy. Many of you have noted the importance of a trusted partner in the communities that people can look to, and also a point of contact for the Government of Canada. The Australian case has been noted and remarked upon. I think they call it “Supply Nation”. I want to ask our witnesses about this.
We'll start with you, Mr. Sinclair, since you got the short end a moment ago. How are those plans evolving? How is that looking from your various perspectives? Do you think we will continue down the road of establishing this sort of trusted partner to advance the cause of indigenous procurement?
Donald (Rocky) Sinclair
View Donald (Rocky) Sinclair Profile
Donald (Rocky) Sinclair
2021-06-09 18:39
First of all, I would like to apologize for the audio issues I was having. I did miss most of the earlier conversation, and I apologize for that. Hopefully I'm not repeating some of the things that were said by others.
In general terms, I don't have direct experience with or knowledge of the Australian model. However, I do have limited knowledge of the efforts they're making in Australia in terms of their relationship with the indigenous peoples in their country. It really requires a resetting of a relationship, and this procurement strategy is a good example of an initiative that was ill-designed, has been around since 1996 and—
Donald (Rocky) Sinclair
View Donald (Rocky) Sinclair Profile
Donald (Rocky) Sinclair
2021-06-09 18:40
Exactly—PSAB. From my perspective as an individual who has worked in indigenous business development and finance for over 30 years, it has almost been a running joke. I realize there are good intentions behind it, but certainly its poor design speaks for itself.
I believe that there also are good examples not just in Australia but within our own country in terms of establishing trust, designing programs properly and establishing good, solid trust relationships with our communities in our own institutions and in our agencies. NACCA is a good example of that. We've worked very hard to prove that what we do is important. I think those examples exist and that if you look to those examples, they will serve as a design template or a way to do things that might not have been done with the procurement strategy.
I do recognize that this strategy has existed through many election cycles. This is owned by different parties, and it hasn't changed a whole lot in terms of effectiveness on the front lines. There are many reasons for that.
Those are just general comments. I don't know if I'm answering your question in any way, but I needed to get into the mix here.
View Steven MacKinnon Profile
Lib. (QC)
We don't have much time left, but perhaps the others could comment briefly on the work of the reference group and the work towards establishing a business case for an indigenous organization that would work on indigenous procurement.
Shannin Metatawabin
View Shannin Metatawabin Profile
Shannin Metatawabin
2021-06-09 18:43
Yes.
We started that in July 2020, which was far too late. This process should have started a lot earlier, because at those meetings we identified that there wasn't a lot of indigenous-led information or consultation or engagement. That's when we started the process. Now we're engaged in about five different research papers that talk about indigenous definition. There's a business plan for an indigenous-led institution, because trust is a big issue. The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples says the institutions need to be led and owned by the indigenous people to provide the services on behalf of indigenous people.
We see that with this procurement. It's a day-and-night thing. It's a 24-7 service that means you have to be on top of the departments. You have to know what's coming down the pipeline, and you have to get businesses prepared to submit their proposals. It's something that needs to be done fully and wholly. There are a number of institutions in Canada that support finance. We have NACCA and CCAB for corporate development and business. We have CANDO. We have a number of organizations that provide services, but an indigenous-led institution that does procurement would be the highlight.
View Julie Vignola Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
You said just now that a target of awarding 5% of contracts to indigenous businesses had been set. If memory serves, only 0.8% of contracts, on average, have been awarded to indigenous businesses since 1996.
First, is the 5% target a realistic figure, in your opinion?
Second, how could the government go about really achieving it?
Third, what would be a reasonable time frame for achieving that target? We know that nothing has changed in 25 years.
Philip Ducharme
View Philip Ducharme Profile
Philip Ducharme
2021-06-09 18:45
If I may answer that one, I think there are changes being made. I know that the federal government—and I've mentioned it a few times—is not the best at relaying the information and reporting it, but there was a report released just a while ago from the PSAB program. From 2015 to 2018, there was an incredible increase in procurement opportunities. In 2018, PSAB actually started reporting the spend that was not part of the PSAB program, that were not set-asides. At that time, it was 1.96% of the federal procurement. When we started working with the federal government and going to the government, we had that 5%. Again, that was a floor, and that was set based just on our indigenous population. We wanted it to be over five years because we don't want the government to be set up for failure. The government hasn't always been our friend. Again, realistically, we want to ensure that this is going to be something that's sustainable, something that's going to happen.
It is happening. For instance, in the past, PSAB was in the ISC portfolio, but it looks as though more ministries are becoming involved in it. I think that's what has to be done. It has to be across the entire federal government—all ministries, and even Crown corporations. I think Defence Construction Canada is probably one of the most proactive Crown corporations within the federal government in trying to increase opportunities for our indigenous businesses.
Marnie Suitor
View Marnie Suitor Profile
Marnie Suitor
2021-06-09 18:47
I would add to that a couple of points that have come from my discussions with indigenous business owners and entrepreneurs.
One thing is the uncertainty as to whether there is a mandate, or at the very least an expectation, that the set-asides will be considered and applied through all federal departments. At this point, it appears that some departments have that as a target and others don't. One example given to me involves Indigenous Services Canada and the funding they are in charge of with respect to capital projects within first nations. The gap there is the fact that when those contracts for the building of infrastructure on first nations are issued, they are not typically granted to or in consideration for those businesses that are part of the PSAB set-aside. To me, it's a glaring disparity when we are utilizing first nations funds for first nations infrastructure, yet the first nations are not in a position to engage or at least put in proposals on work that would further their indigenous communities.
View Matthew Green Profile
NDP (ON)
Thank you.
I want to make sure that I'm setting the record straight from my perspective. The grace that I have extended to the members of this particular committee in a non-partisan way I don't extend to government. In fact, I want to just go ahead and name that systemic racism has provided a considerable barrier to indigenous procurement, and there is a particular type of anti-indigenous racism that is presented. We've heard now about trust. We've heard about the 70% cuts to programming, programming that would help make these businesses more viable within our procurement supply chains.
There are two things we know to be true during COVID. One is that we missed an opportunity, as Ms. Suitor has identified, in terms of PSAB and the set-asides. The amount of money that has gone out in this COVID time, I think, was a missed opportunity. However, there is going to be a COVID recovery. There are going to be significant investments in infrastructure. There could be significant opportunities to ensure that we get it right this time around.
I want to direct my question to Mr. Sinclair in my last round here to talk a little bit about what it would look like to have the 70% cuts restored to the types of programs that would help the supply chain to get indigenous businesses into the supply chain at 2021 values.
Donald (Rocky) Sinclair
View Donald (Rocky) Sinclair Profile
Donald (Rocky) Sinclair
2021-06-09 18:50
Without knowing specifically what those 70% cuts relate to, I would say that in my experience of the effects of those cuts and the work that we do on the front lines in the community, they are not only felt by the entrepreneur in the community and those fledgling businesses but institutionally. If we're an organization—and I am speaking as an AFI, an aboriginal financial institution—those kinds of cuts are deep, and they make it difficult for us to do our job and be able to support those entrepreneurs to develop or to have their businesses progress to a point to be able to realize some of those opportunities.
It really is, in some ways, where we started from in terms of developmental lending. We still need all of those supports in order to even come close to realizing some of those opportunities.
Results: 61 - 75 of 2766 | Page: 5 of 185

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