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Results: 31 - 45 of 2766
Donald (Rocky) Sinclair
View Donald (Rocky) Sinclair Profile
Donald (Rocky) Sinclair
2021-06-09 17:53
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and committee members.
First, thank you very much for the opportunity to address the committee today.
My name is Rocky Sinclair, and I'm the CEO of the Alberta Indian Investment Corporation. We're an aboriginal financial institution located in Enoch Cree Nation. My comments today, however, will be in my capacity as president of Aksis, which is an indigenous business and professional association formed in 2013. We're located in Edmonton.
Although we have not engaged in a formal survey or study related to federal procurement opportunities for indigenous peoples in Edmonton, we are confident that there are common concerns with the procurement strategy that are applicable to the majority of indigenous businesses regardless of where they are located.
There are processes that can be overly complicated and difficult to navigate. That's known. Also, the reach of the procurement opportunities may not be getting to the indigenous businesses. There are limitations there, certainly. There are also concerns about some of the qualifying criteria that might be too limiting or stringent. That is also known.
For urban indigenous businesses, there are unique challenges, given that they are are typically stand-alone in nature and do not have a support system that may be available in other communities. Many indigenous businesses in urban settings are typically interspersed throughout the city and are not concentrated in one area; therefore, they do not have peer support readily available. Also, many of those businesses are owner-operator businesses. The proprietors are very hands-on and do not have the resources to navigate through complex program portals to look for opportunities.
It is our view that if proactive strategies are introduced, along with mandated targets and appropriate metrics, we will see improvements in the uptake of indigenous businesses in securing opportunities with the federal government, and we would recommend that consideration. If there are not significant and fundamental changes to the indigenous procurement strategy, the issues that indigenous businesses have had with the strategy since 1996 will continue.
I have a colleague who is with me, and she will provide further comments. She will take up the balance of my time.
Thank you very much.
Marnie Suitor
View Marnie Suitor Profile
Marnie Suitor
2021-06-09 17:57
Thank you, Rocky. I believe that's my cue to speak now.
Good afternoon, and thank you very much for the invitation to be part of this session today.
My name is Marnie Suitor, and I'm speaking to today from Amiskwaciy Waskahikan, which is Edmonton in Alberta, the heart of Treaty 6 territory and in Métis Region 4. I am a director of Aksis and I am also the principal partner of an indigenous-owned consulting practice known as In Synch Consulting.
Over the past 18 years, the majority of my focus has been on capacity building within indigenous communities, businesses and entrepreneurial endeavours. I have witnessed many entrepreneurs and department managers struggle with what I refer to as the end-to-end procurement process, whether that be at the front end when they they're searching for and identifying an opportunity to respond to, whether that's through the pre-qualification process, or whether that is in the contract and reporting management that is part of the project compliance.
It is a very tedious and onerous process, and it requires infrastructure to support and an expertise to complete the core elements of procurement. In many cases, entrepreneurs find that the return on their investment of time and resources just simply doesn't add up.
That said, I do believe that there are ways to streamline the process and to refine the policies and procedures to enable indigenous businesses to fully and meaningfully participate in the federal procurement process.
I want to thank you for allowing me to share these few thoughts and I look forward to participating as the session unfolds.
Thank you.
Shannin Metatawabin
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Shannin Metatawabin
2021-06-09 17:59
Thank you.
My name is Shannin Metatawabin. I am the CEO of the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association, or NACCA. I'm also a member of the Fort Albany First Nation of the Mushkegowuk nation. Thank you for the invitation to speak to your committee’s study of federal procurement before and after the COVID-19 pandemic.
Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that—
Shannin Metatawabin
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Shannin Metatawabin
2021-06-09 18:00
I just want to acknowledge that I'm taking this call on the Mi'kmaq territory of beautiful P.E.I.
NACCA represents a national network of 59 indigenous-led institutions. Our members work with first nations, Métis, and Inuit businesses on a daily basis. NACCA is also one of six organizations in a national indigenous procurement working group formed in July 2020. Canada created our working group to coordinate advice on policy and legislative frameworks needed to achieve a minimum target of 5% indigenous procurement government-wide.
In these difficult times, procuring goods and services from indigenous businesses provides one concrete means to further economic and social reconciliation, yet over the past decade, opportunities for indigenous procurement seem to have remained unchanged. As far as we know, the high point was in 2014, with $227 million in indigenous set-asides, which was only 0.8% of total federal procurement that year. I say, “as far as we know” because one issue our group has identified is the lack of consistent, accessible data across federal departments.
Why do the opportunities remain so few, even with the 5% target upheld throughout the pandemic? Our research has revealed several factors.
The first issue is government policy and process. The benefits of indigenous procurement are not widely appreciated across government, and the current policy directs little spending to indigenous suppliers. The process itself is decentralized, which limits implementation of the 5% target to only a handful of departments. Added to this, departments are not required to report publicly on their targets, and there are no consequences for failing to meet them. There are few incentives to change, so things remain the same.
A second barrier rests with the capacity of the indigenous businesses to bid on government contracts. Many find the process difficult to navigate. Many are not registered with the aboriginal business directory, which is now managed by government. Also designed and managed by the government are the outreach strategy, training and tools, which do not meet the needs of our businesses.
A third barrier may be the criteria defining an indigenous business. The current criteria require 51% indigenous ownership and control and 33% of employees to be indigenous. Taken together, these two requirements are hard to achieve, and some indigenous businesses may be excluded.
Then what is to be done? Our working group has identified four solutions:
First and above all, increasing indigenous access depends on having mandated government-wide targets. Setting a target of 5% across departments was a crucial first step, but it will exist only on paper unless the monitoring and supports needed are also introduced.
Second, monitoring is key. Canada needs to improve its data collection, reporting and governance of the process to drive results. The federal government needs to increase its transparency government-wide so that we have an accurate portrait and indigenous oversight.
Third, meeting the target will require streamlining and demystifying the procurement process to make it more accessible. The process will need to address specific barriers that prevent our businesses from participating, including any introduced by the definition of “indigenous business”.
Fourth, the indigenous institution has to lead in identifying, advancing and delivering tools and services to support implementation of the target. Our business owners need an indigenous-led centre they can trust to develop a comprehensive, up-to-date directory, using a definition that works for them as well.
These are the measures our group has identified, and we are now bringing forward a robust research program to support them. We are also coordinating with our three government counterparts tasked with developing a new policy framework with PSPC and the treasury department.
Clearly, there is much to be done to achieve the target and much that can be done. The experiences of jurisdictions like Australia and Saskatchewan have shown us that with the right will, monitoring and supports, we could not only meet but exceed the 5% target and increase it threefold to fourfold.
In the COVID crisis and beyond, addressing this aspect of reconciliation is straightforward. Meeting the 5% target will depend on clear federal direction, incentives throughout the bureaucracy, and an indigenous lead to work with and register our business owners. In a fairly short time, we could move this target from aspiration to reality, promoting our shared prosperity.
Meegwetch.
View Kelly McCauley Profile
CPC (AB)
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
To our witnesses, thank you for your patience and for sticking with us. I know that staring at a blank Zoom screen for two hours is probably not the highlight of your day, so thank you.
I want to thank everyone for their opening statements. It pains me that we have to invite witnesses here today for this study, because we went through an almost identical process three to three and a half years ago in the last Parliament, when we heard different people from the indigenous communities say basically the same things we're hearing today—big promises, no follow-through, and on and on. I'm glad you were able to come and reinforce what we've heard before.
One thing that's always stunned me about procurement from the indigenous community is that when we had the last set of committee meetings on this issue, we heard from indigenous people that they were getting no help from the government side, no real results. Then we heard witnesses say that they were getting great help from the energy industry, especially in Alberta. Then, when we brought the procurement bureaucrats in, they almost threw their shoulders out patting themselves on the back so hard. There's a complete disconnect between what you're telling us and what the bureaucrats will end up telling us.
One of the things I'm really glad you brought up was the part about tracking and setting goals. We've seen procurement for three straight years now, with two to be decided as their goal for achieving the set-asides. I think it's important for accountability and achieving results that we have these things.
For everyone here, Mr. Metatawabin, you mention how we're qualifying indigenous businesses. It's always a question of whether we are better off with a contract going to a non-indigenous-owned company that employs a very large number of indigenous people or whether the set-aside is for an indigenous-owned business that does not perhaps employ a large number of indigenous people. What delivers the best results for the community, and where do you see the balance between those?
Shannin Metatawabin
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Shannin Metatawabin
2021-06-09 18:08
A big problem with procurement over the past 25 years is that only $1.6 billion has been allocated to all indigenous procurement opportunities—
Shannin Metatawabin
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Shannin Metatawabin
2021-06-09 18:08
—and that's only 0.8% of all opportunities. We need to make wholesale changes. Australia has shown that they had a target, and then they increased it fourfold. Saskatchewan has done it, but it's only because there's a will. If there's a will, then there's a way.
The only way you're going to make a difference is for those frontline managers to be able to select an indigenous person. If there are hard targets and consequences for not meeting those targets, it will happen.
What you're talking about is how we can find the right mix in the types of businesses. I think that what Australia has shown is that if there is an opportunity, indigenous people will respond with the right businesses, respond with the right employee breakdown and invest in the assets. We did this 20 years ago. They invested a lot, and nothing resulted from it. A lot of them just stuck to the mainstream. I'm looking for a real change.
Philip Ducharme
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Philip Ducharme
2021-06-09 18:09
I agree with what Shannin said.
We look at the businesses as well, and we are trying to ensure that the businesses are going to be the 51% owned and controlled. What has been an issue in the past is that the government told us what an indigenous business is. They said that to qualify as an indigenous business, they have to meet that extra requirement.
To my knowledge, for any of the other other programming that the federal government has regarding social procurement, it's only the ownership and control. There is no requirement to have your workforce be the stakeholder group that is being recognized.
I do think that indigenous businesses.... There is research that shows that we do hire our own people and that we do increase the capacity within our communities as well by hiring. I think that's what needs to be done. It also needs to have a target set, and there have to be some teeth to it. A mandate is great, but unless it's incentivized, it's going to be a hard sell to get it to happen.
Marnie Suitor
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Marnie Suitor
2021-06-09 18:10
Thank you.
I'm actually working at the civic level with the City of Edmonton on their procurement strategy, so some of the conversation that's come up so far is interesting. If we think about ownership at 51%, I've worked with indigenous businesses that are 100% indigenously owned, but in the background there are blind trust agreements, etc., that transfer the actual operation of the business to non-indigenous people, so having that criterion of ownership does also create some other nuances.
I've seen the other side. We've had a business that is 100% indigenous owned and operated but cannot meet the requirement for the employee base. The example would be in the engineering or architectural world. Here in Edmonton, we have a very reputable business that is capable and qualified, but they could never meet the 33% threshold, because they're not able to find the skill set within the indigenous community to meet that requirement. Therefore, there are challenges on both sides.
View Patrick Weiler Profile
Lib. (BC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd also like to thank our witnesses for their patience in joining our committee meeting tonight.
Maybe I should start by recognizing that I'm streaming from my home on the traditional unceded territory of Coast Salish peoples, including the Squamish, Tsleil-Waututh and Musqueam nations.
What came up in the opening comments for everybody was that one of the big barriers to having increased indigenous involvement in government procurement was the complexity of the RFP process. Mr. Ducharme mentioned a couple of things: the challenges with previous work history with the government and lack of feedback.
Mr. Ducharme, I was hoping you could explain a little bit on your thoughts about how the RFP process itself could be simplified and how that might be able to increase indigenous procurement.
Philip Ducharme
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Philip Ducharme
2021-06-09 18:13
Thank you.
I think you could look at some of the RFPs. If you could unbundle them or if you didn't have so many criteria in them, it would help. It's set up right now so that all the mandatory criteria in these RFPs are almost a weed-out mechanism, and that's what a lot of our businesses struggle with, especially with the previous platform, the Buyandsell and the epost that the federal government was using. There would be one little thing that would be missed, and because of that, they were non-compliant and their bids are not even being looked at. I think making not as many mandatory requirements.... It almost seems like the requirements, as I said earlier, are there to set us up for failure. My understanding is that the new procurement platform the federal government is going to is going to make it a little bit easier so that people aren't going to be losing out by not having a document that's uploaded.
Again, I think by simplifying the contracts.... We had one supplier who said he spent $10,000 to respond to the bid because there was so much. It was a technical RFP, but there's no reason that something that's worth $10 million is going to have to require the same amount of work as a $10,000 or $100,000 RFP.
Marnie Suitor
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Marnie Suitor
2021-06-09 18:14
My comments would be somewhat similar. I think it's important to scale the RFP to the work that's being required by actually taking a look within to understand the risk, the scope, the dollar value, and then adjust the RFP accordingly. Is the requirement to hold, let's say, $5 million worth of insurance really practical for someone who's bidding on a $150,000 contract? Those types of things would be helpful.
Shannin Metatawabin
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Shannin Metatawabin
2021-06-09 18:15
I would like to add that if we viewed investing in indigenous businesses as an investment, we'd see that the social impacts for an indigenous-owned business in the community include a 72% increase in life satisfaction, a 52% increase in mental health indicators and a 19% increase in health indicators, so there are actually cost savings there.
There are also ancillary benefits to other community members with that business. There are community-owned businesses that have bid on contracts within their own community and have been weeded out because of the complexity of the bidding process. There needs to be a full change on how this is set up so that the community-owned business is at the front of the line, because they're going to be hiring their community members and the benefits are going to remain in that community. Right now, the system is set up to fail, as Philip has pointed out. We need to remove those barriers, just like we have with so many other barriers in front of us, and we're going to see a lot more impact.
View Patrick Weiler Profile
Lib. (BC)
We would appreciate your sharing with the committee, if you could, the report that has those statistics.
A number of things have come up at this meeting today, including that some of the other jurisdictions that have set targets and increased targets, with enforcement measures to ensure they are met, have been able to meet them. I'd be curious to hear your comments on what changes took place within government procurement to facilitate that additional procurement, in addition to just the targets. What actual changes in their process took place that led to that improvement?
I'll go first to Mr. Metatawabin, please.
Shannin Metatawabin
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Shannin Metatawabin
2021-06-09 18:17
I'm going to refer to something I have in front of me here, which says that in 2019 and 2020, Australian indigenous procurement outcomes had a target of $195 million. The results were $854 million. The results exceeded the target by about 4.3%.
Also, Saskatchewan Power in 2019 had a target of 3.5%. The results are 8.6%.
There's a large-fold increase in the targets. This is because they're actually implementing procurement and caring about it.
Maybe Rocky can speak to this, but Suncor has had the longest procurement process with some of the tribes in Alberta. That's kind of where corporations have taken the lead to implement processes through impact benefit agreements that have hard targets and consequences for not meeting them. You lose your social licence to operate. We almost need to get into that kind of territory if we really want procurement to make an impact.
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