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Results: 1 - 30 of 262
View Marc Miller Profile
Lib. (QC)
Yes, in two seconds.
Lastly, I want to discuss an issue that's essential to first nations communities—water. Ensuring that first nations communities have reliable access to clean water is a key goal for us. As of June 9, first nations, with support from Indigenous Services Canada, have lifted 107 long-term water advisories since 2015, at which date there were 105 in effect. In 2019, we've increased that support funding for operations and maintenance, which is a key demand of first nations—
View Marc Miller Profile
Lib. (QC)
Thanks, Chair.
In 2019 and 2020, we increased funding to support the operations and maintenance of wastewater systems. With these increases, by 2025-26, over $400 million per year in permanent funding will be provided, which is four times what's been allocated since 2016. That will be key and transformative to their maintaining the lifespan of these key infrastructure assets in communities and securing clean water for everyone. These added funds will have that tangible effect that I've mentioned and will contribute to safe water and safe and healthy communities.
I want to thank all of you again for this community. Now I am quite happy to take any and all questions.
Meegwetch. Nakurmiik. Mahsi cho. Thank you.
View Arnold Viersen Profile
CPC (AB)
The boil water advisories continue to be a challenge for the federal government. Your government promised they would be dealt with a year ago. We are seeing more communities come onto boiled water advisories again.
On what day will we be out of the bush on that?
View Marc Miller Profile
Lib. (QC)
I encourage you to look at the revamped website. We had some assistance from a great indigenous organization so that every Canadian could see the progress of those.
Let's recall that in 2015, there were 105 long-term water advisories in effect. We've lifted 107. This is an immense amount of progress. Work remains to be done. A lot of the communities, despite having lost the construction year due to COVID, have pushed through. We've announced additional funding.
When we've put out a date, a lot of communities have asked us where we will be after that date because the trust that I mentioned earlier is so thin vis-à-vis the federal government. It's why in November, we announced additional operations and maintenance money and acceleration funds for those communities where the cost has gone up, looking beyond lifting a long-term water advisory, which, I will remind the committee, is done by the nation themselves.
While it may seem easy to lift an advisory, the community will sometimes hesitate legitimately. If you've been on it for 25 years, you can legitimately think you're going to take your time before making that decision because it's about the health of the community.
These things do take time. We have a commitment to communities that we will be there for them.
View Arnold Viersen Profile
CPC (AB)
View Marc Miller Profile
Lib. (QC)
I don't know if I can give you an answer today. I expect none of them turn to long term, but it's a community-by-community analysis.
You hit the nail on the head on that one. We've lifted 100-plus.... For 182 short-term water advisories, we've made the investment sufficient so they don't turn to long term ones. That means the safety of water in communities.
We need to take a look at water safety from a perspective that is greater than simply building the building, lifting the long-term water advisory and walking away from this. This is about partnership and making sure that asset has a long-term lifespan, is at the height of its technology and works for the community. That means training people at the grass roots, in the spirit of self-determination with the funds of the federal government to support it, so they are what they are, which is the pride of their community, getting water to the people.
View Sylvie Bérubé Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is this.
Mr. Miller, you recently unveiled a map on your department's website that identifies the indigenous communities that do not have access to clean drinking water. However, there is one indigenous community that does not appear on that map that also does not have clean drinking water, and that is Kitcisakik, which is in my riding.
Why is Kitcisakik invisible?
View Marc Miller Profile
Lib. (QC)
With respect to Kitcisakik, negotiations are underway with the province about moving the community. Obviously, during these discussions about moving, we will still be here for that community.
In Quebec, there is no boil water advisory, and that is the result of the hard work we have done over the years. For identifying a community that comes under what is called federal jurisdiction, in particular, we count the public drinking water systems that have at least five residential connections.
Kelly Gillis
View Kelly Gillis Profile
Kelly Gillis
2021-05-11 11:38
The people in rural communities and northern Canada need the infrastructure investments. We've invested in connectivity projects to provide high-speed Internet access. These projects are very important. They give people the ability to access education and, in this situation, to go about their daily business.
We're also investing in recreational and cultural infrastructure. The goal is to give people access to the public services that they need.
Lastly, I want to mention our investments in areas such as access to safe and clean drinking water in remote areas.
We know that is very important, and we've been focusing a lot on waste-water facilities in areas where it's important for our communities to have fundamental clean access to infrastructure.
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
Lib. (ON)
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
2021-05-11 12:33
Thank you. I think the more transparent we are on those, the more communities will understand where we're heading with our projects overall.
Ms. Gillis, the example of the global positioning, the reporting to communities on specific projects and expanding that....
Finally, I'm going to go to Ms. Fox.
The reporting on the boil water advisories I always hold up as the example of good reporting on what projects are in place and what the next milestone is. Is that going to move into the financials as well?
Christiane Fox
View Christiane Fox Profile
Christiane Fox
2021-05-11 12:34
We are constantly looking at better ways to be open and transparent, and the long-term drinking water advisory work, taking it community by community, is a good approach. We do that, as well, for our infrastructure funding. It's important to note that there is data around the money that has been spent and the completion. I can give you an example, for instance—
View Kelly Block Profile
CPC (SK)
I call this meeting to order.
Welcome to meeting number 28 of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts.
The committee is meeting in public today and is being televised.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(g), the committee is meeting today to study “Report 3—Access to Safe Drinking Water in First Nations Communities—Indigenous Services Canada” of the 2021 reports 1 to 5 of the Auditor General of Canada.
Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. Therefore, members may be attending in person in the room or remotely by using the Zoom application. However, I understand that everyone is attending virtually today, so for those of you who are, I will just go through a few reminders.
Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either “Floor”, “English” or “French”. Before speaking, click on the microphone icon to activate your own mike. When you are done speaking, please put your mike on mute to minimize any interference. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly.
Unless there are exceptional circumstances, the use of a headset with a boom microphone is mandatory for everyone participating remotely.
Should any technical challenges arise, please advise the chair. Please note that we may then need to suspend a few minutes, as we need to ensure that all members are able to participate fully.
If the members agree, I'd like to take about five minutes at the end of the meeting for a bit of committee business.
Now I'd like to welcome our witnesses. Joining us today from the Office of the Auditor General are Karen Hogan, Auditor General of Canada, and Glenn Wheeler, principal. From the Department of Indigenous Services, we have Christiane Fox, deputy minister; Joanne Wilkinson, senior assistant deputy minister, regional operations sector; Chad Westmacott, director general, community infrastructure branch; and Jennifer Esdaile, director, strategic water management.
I will now turn it over to Ms. Hogan for five minutes.
Karen Hogan
View Karen Hogan Profile
Karen Hogan
2021-04-29 11:05
Madam Chair, thank you for this opportunity to discuss our recent report on access to safe drinking water in first nations communities. Joining me today is Glenn Wheeler, the principal who was responsible for the audit.
Reliable access to safe drinking water is vital to the health and well-being of all, including the people living in the more than 600 first nations communities across Canada. Many of these communities have lived for a long time without the assurance that their drinking water is safe.
In 2015, the federal government committed to eliminating all long-term drinking water advisories on public water systems on first nations reserves by March 31, 2021.
Overall, Indigenous Services Canada has not provided the support needed to ensure that first nations communities have ongoing access to safe drinking water. In fact, in December 2020 the minister acknowledged that the department was not on track to meet its March 31 target.
We found that since the federal government's 2015 commitment, there have been a total of 160 long-term drinking water advisories on public water systems in first nations communities. As of November 1, 2020, 60 remained in effect in 41 first nations communities, with almost half of the advisories having been in place for more than a decade.
In addition, we found that some long-term advisories were lifted only as a result of interim measures that did not fully address the underlying deficiencies. For some of these water systems, long-term solutions were not expected to be completed until 2025.
The audit team also found that Indigenous Services Canada's efforts have been constrained by an outdated policy and formula for funding the operation and maintenance of public water systems. The department had not amended the funding formula since it was first developed 30 years ago. Until the formula is updated, it is unclear whether recent funding increases will be sufficient to meet first nations' water infrastructure needs.
The department has been working with first nations to provide first nations communities with drinking water protections comparable to other communities in Canada. However, we found that there is still no regulatory regime in place 15 years after we first recommended it.
The federal government emphasizes the importance of reconciliation and the renewal of a nation-to-nation relationship between Canada and indigenous communities that is based on the recognition of indigenous rights, respect, co-operation and partnership. Indigenous Services Canada must work in partnership with first nations to develop and implement lasting solutions for safe drinking water in first nations communities. This is a key component of reconciliation.
Over the last few decades, many of my predecessors have raised concerns about programs that failed to effectively serve Canada's indigenous peoples. I am very concerned, and honestly disheartened, to find myself reporting a long-standing issue that is still not resolved. Access to safe drinking water is a basic human necessity. I don't believe anyone would say that this situation is in any way acceptable in Canada in 2021.
We made five recommendations to Indigenous Services Canada, and the department has agreed with all of them.
Madam Chair, this concludes my opening remarks. We would be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have.
Thank you.
Christiane Fox
View Christiane Fox Profile
Christiane Fox
2021-04-29 11:09
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Good morning, everyone.
I would like to acknowledge before I begin that I am on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin people.
Thank you to the committee for having me.
The Government of Canada has made it a top priority to ensure that all first nation communities have access to safe, clean and reliable drinking water.
The department has welcomed the Office of the Auditor General of Canada's report on the issue of safe drinking water in first nations communities, and shares her commitment on the issue. The report includes five recommendations, each of which aligns with actions the government is taking to ensure every first nation community has access to clean water.
The department remains committed to implementing the action plan, working in partnership with first nations and following the transformation agenda.
Let me begin by noting that the impact of COVID-19 in the past year cannot be understated. The pandemic has delayed the completion of infrastructure projects across the country, including projects aimed at addressing long-term drinking water advisories. The health and well-being of first nation community members remains our top priority.
First nations are leading the response to protect their communities from COVID-19. In some cases, this has had an effect on getting equipment and resources into communities, especially in remote and northern areas.
The government recently announced significant investments to continue work aimed at lifting long-term drinking water advisories, to continue supporting water and wastewater infrastructure investments, and to support the operation and maintenance of water and wastewater systems.
With the combined investments made as part of budget 2019 and the $1.5 billion in additional funding announced by the department in December 2020, by 2025, Indigenous Services Canada will have increased the annual funding it provides first nations to support the operation and maintenance of water and wastewater systems by almost four times.
The increase in operations and maintenance funding has already started flowing directly to first nations, with 2020-21 operations and maintenance top-ups having been provided.
In addition, budget 2021 committed $4.3 billion over four years to support infrastructure projects in first nations, Inuit and Métis Nation communities, and $1.7 billion over five years to cover the cost of operations and maintenance of community infrastructure in first nations communities on reserve.
Working with indigenous partners, these investments will make significant strides in closing gaps between indigenous and non-indigenous peoples, support healthy, safe and prosperous indigenous communities, and advance meaningful reconciliation with first nations, Inuit, and the Métis nation. These investments will support continued action on infrastructure and clean water.
The long-term drinking water advisory commitment was made to address drinking water issues and concerns on reserve. Partnering with first nations, the government has collectively taken a number of important actions that have improved drinking water on reserve.
In November 2015, there were 105 long-term drinking water advisories on public systems on reserves across the country. Since then, 58 long-term drinking water advisories have been added. First nations, with support from Indigenous Services Canada, have lifted 106 long-term drinking water advisories. In addition to that, 179 short-term drinking water advisories at risk of becoming long-term have been lifted, ensuring clean drinking water to first nations.
Initiatives are well under way to address the 52 remaining long-term drinking water advisories in 33 communities.
Long-term solutions are under way in all cases where interim measures were put in place to provide communities with clean drinking water as soon as possible.
The department also continues to support a first nations-led engagement process for the development of that long-term strategy. We will continue to work to ensure that funding is available to commit towards these important water projects and address the long-term needs of communities.
In alignment with the Office of the Auditor General's recommendations, the government will continue to work with first nations to conduct performance inspections of water systems annually and asset condition assessments every three years to identify deficiencies.
Still, we realize more work needs to be done. The government values input from the OAG and other observers, and we will continue to work in concert with first nations partners to improve water infrastructure on reserve and support access to safe, clean and reliable drinking water.
In closing, we remain committed to clean drinking water because it is about building a sustainable foundation that ensures first nations communities have that access to drinking water now and into the future.
Meegwetch. Nakurmiik. Marsi. Thank you.
Thank you.
View Len Webber Profile
CPC (AB)
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Absolutely, I can concur with Mr. Berthold on that. To get the information sooner would certainly help.
I thank Ms. Hogan and Ms. Fox for their presentations today.
Ms. Fox, you talked a bit about the budget, and that was something that I jumped into. I sifted through the budget and found that on page 265 it says there's “$1.7 billion over five years to cover operations and maintenance costs of on reserve community infrastructure in First Nations communities.” You mentioned the number of billions of dollars going into community infrastructure as well, but that could be a hockey arena or anything other than a water treatment facility.
Page 245 of the budget indicated “new investment of over $18 billion over the next five years, to improve the quality of life and create new opportunities for people living in Indigenous communities.” It also said, “These investments will support continued action on infrastructure”, and then mentions “and clean water”, which is nice to see in the document. On page 248, it says there's $125 million over four years, beginning next year, “to continue to support First Nations communities' reliable access to clean water and help ensure the safe delivery of health and social services on reserve.”
None of these three points that I bring up really specify what type of money is going directly into water and water treatment. Have you any idea of what money you're getting in this new budget that is targeted specifically for water and water treatment in indigenous first nation communities?
Thanks.
Christiane Fox
View Christiane Fox Profile
Christiane Fox
2021-04-29 11:19
First, I would say the following. Since 2016 we have invested $4.27 billion. That is directly to repair water and waste-water infrastructure and support the effective management and maintenance of water systems on reserve. I would also note that in the fall economic statement, there was a commitment that is very specific to water operation and maintenance. In December of 2020, $1.5 billion was announced. That includes $616.3 million over six years, with about $115 million ongoing. That is directly for the operation and maintenance of water infrastructure in communities. That money is very dedicated to that activity. We have a series of budget announcements over the last five years that have very specific and direct funding for water infrastructure.
With respect to budget 2021, you are correct that there is $4.3 billion dedicated to infrastructure, but it's infrastructure at large, and it is distinctions-based. We will have to work with first nations leadership, the Inuit and the Métis nation to have a distinctions-based strategy in order to dedicate funding to infrastructure priorities. In that there will be water infrastructure.
I would say that in terms of the very specific funding that I think will have a huge impact on our ability, it's this O and M money that we received in both budget 2019 and the fall economic statement that really allows us to pursue the important work of the critical infrastructure as well as the operation and maintenance training needs of communities to be able to respond. It's about getting the systems in, but it's also about getting the expertise to manage the system and to monitor the system. That can really be about job creation. It's about the transformation agenda whereby first nations leadership and the community can take ownership of that water system. We want to work very closely with them on that.
With regard to the $18 billion dedicated to indigenous priorities, that touches the next year of COVID supports that will continue. It touches health transformation, anti-racism, infrastructure, governance; it's kind of a long list. We'll be working with our partners to work through budget 2021 and marry it with previous investments with, as I said, a starting point of over $4.2 billion for water infrastructure.
View Len Webber Profile
CPC (AB)
Great.
You mentioned that this is a huge amount of money, obviously. It's $4.2 billion. Do you think that is a sufficient amount of money to alleviate the problems in these first nations communities and reserves?
Christiane Fox
View Christiane Fox Profile
Christiane Fox
2021-04-29 11:23
I think we have seen over the last few years a continued commitment towards addressing these water challenges. This has not been an exercise of just lifting drinking water advisories. Obviously, that is a very focused part of our department and our mandate, but really it's about that long-term strategy.
Will more investments be required into the future? I can't say that this is enough to solve everything forever, but I think what we're seeing is dedicated funding for infrastructure and, in addition to that, for operation and maintenance. I can't stress how important that is, especially as we look at new technologies in water. How do we sustain the shifts and the advancements to have better operating systems in communities?
We will keep working through it with communities, with first nations leaders, to see what solutions work for their communities and how we can empower them and support them in making the right decisions.
I would just note that a big part of the focus in this—
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
Lib. (ON)
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
2021-04-29 11:24
Thank you.
Perhaps Ms. Fox could complete her thought there. It's along the lines of some of the questioning I had as well.
Christiane Fox
View Christiane Fox Profile
Christiane Fox
2021-04-29 11:24
Okay. Thank you.
We have a program here at Indigenous Services Canada called the circuit rider training program—namely, how do we actually develop the skill set within communities to develop a workforce that can do that very important operation and maintenance? Through that program, we try to develop that skill and capability and provide the tools required for communities to manage their projects. We work with first nations leaders and communities directly as well as with other organizations. How can we empower youth through skills, learning and training so that they can be part of the solution? How can we empower women so that they can be part of the solution?
I would just note that this program, with the O and M funding we got, can really expand and build. It has that reliability over the long term.
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
Lib. (ON)
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
2021-04-29 11:25
Thank you.
You mentioned the women. Quite often in indigenous communities the women are the water watchers, the ones who take care of the water. It's important to have them involved, as well as the youth.
I'm thinking of a round table I had with some grand chiefs in my last term at the beginning of all this. I remember Chief Madahbee saying to us, “We need operating and maintenance.” There was another comment from another grand chief who said, “We're getting these systems given to us from Ottawa, but they're not the right systems. You're not listening to our elders. You're putting septic fields where we know there are flood plains. If you would work with us, we could tell you better solutions.” One treatment plant actually added contaminants to the water because it wasn't being maintained properly. That was one of the examples, so there's the whole training piece.
Could you comment, Ms. Fox, on the importance of nation-to-nation discussions, and how they're actually very practical in terms getting to the right solutions at the right time to serve the communities in the way they want to be served?
Christiane Fox
View Christiane Fox Profile
Christiane Fox
2021-04-29 11:26
Thank you for that question.
I think it is absolutely a foundational part of our work. It can't be about the federal government coming in and giving solutions or prescribing one particular system over another. It has to be about partnership and about indigenous leadership making decisions that are best for their communities.
We've really tried to take a community-by-community approach. Through our action plan, we really try to have the communities tell us what their needs are and what some of their priorities are. That can't be unique to water. As you know, when we have conversations with leadership, there are other priorities they address. How do we empower them?
I think the decision-making is key. It's not for us to lift a long-term drinking water advisory. It's not for us to prescribe a contractor. It's not for us to decide on the systems. We really want to support, and that support has to come with funding. It has to come with a commitment to work in partnership, but ultimately we want indigenous leaders and first nations leaders within communities to make the decisions that are best for their communities, and we are there to support them in doing that.
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
Lib. (ON)
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
2021-04-29 11:27
That is why our budgets are increasing as we find different needs, things that we maybe didn't consider, that they're bringing forward to us.
I wanted to touch on the band council resolutions. Band councils will come to us with resolutions, particularly during COVID, and say, “We really don't want you in our community. We'll tell you when you can come in.” That has limited some of our construction projects and changed some of our schedules.
Could you talk about the process of band councils giving us resolutions and how we're respecting those resolutions?
Christiane Fox
View Christiane Fox Profile
Christiane Fox
2021-04-29 11:28
Absolutely. That's an excellent question.
COVID-19 obviously has been our number one priority in this department over the last year. We have been working in lockstep with indigenous leaders to partner with them and to support them in the very important decisions they make to protect their communities.
Band council resolutions are a way that they demonstrate to us that they've made a decision about the safety and security of their communities. That has sometimes meant a shutdown of the community. They've requested some supports at times for perimeter security to manage the flow in and out of their communities, and at times it was the difference between the protection of a community against an outbreak in order to have a healthy community.
We have been very responsive to band council resolutions to respect the decisions that indigenous leaders have made. That has meant that some of the construction season of last year was impacted. It was impacted not just because of those decisions, which were very important as we face a third wave in this country and have to be extremely vigilant in how we manage it, but also in terms of just getting equipment in and out.
As a department, we have to think about how we manage both the pandemic response and the support we're giving to communities in the summer season coming up, while trying to advance some of these very important water projects and other infrastructure projects.
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
Lib. (ON)
View Lloyd Longfield Profile
2021-04-29 11:29
Okay, thanks.
I have quick one in terms of retaining the operators that we're training.
Up in the NAN at Sioux Lookout, they have been losing operators to the local paper mill, which was paying more money. What are we doing to try to retain operators?
Christiane Fox
View Christiane Fox Profile
Christiane Fox
2021-04-29 11:30
At the end of day, it's definitely up to the first nations leadership to decide on the salary structure for operator salaries. What the operation and maintenance funding does is provide more money to communities. It provides 100% in terms of that formula we have in order to fully support O and M in communities. As a result of this funding, communities are empowered to pay salaries that are greater than what they had been, and then retain that talent, retain that skill and develop it. I think that's part of the strategy, absolutely.
View Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Welcome to the witnesses.
Good morning, Ms. Hogan. It's always a pleasure to see you.
I have to tell you that, back in February, I almost felt sick when I read your report. I have that same feeling today; it came back as I listened to your opening statement. Your findings are appalling. Indigenous Services Canada is very slack, it would seem.
I won't beat around the bush. Instead, I will get straight to the point. Before we get into the details, I want to discuss some of your findings and recommendations. You pointed out that your office first conducted an audit on the specific issue of access to drinking water more than 15 years ago, back in 2005. The department has had time to get things ready. It's safe to say that the issue has been on your office's radar for almost 20 years.
My question is straightforward. Do you feel the department takes the role of the Office of the Auditor General seriously?
Do you think the department has a corporate culture of offering up mea culpas every five, 10 or 15 years? In other words, is it just riding out the storm, while carrying on business as usual until the auditor general's next report comes out?
Karen Hogan
View Karen Hogan Profile
Karen Hogan
2021-04-29 11:32
You're right.
We conducted an audit on safe drinking water in indigenous communities in 2005. We followed up in 2011, and again just recently, as per the report tabled in the House of Commons in February.
Although progress has been made during that time, the department did not meet its commitment to lift all drinking water advisories. We found two things in particular during this audit: a regulatory regime had not been developed, and more importantly, the funding formula had not been updated for some 30 years.
As a result, the funding formula is outdated and does not meet the immediate needs. We found that it had not kept pace with advances in technology, which has a direct impact on water system operator capacity. Despite the progress that has been made, the department's failure to update the formula since it was developed some 30 years ago is not the way to ensure adequate funding for operation and maintenance.
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