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View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Welcome, everybody, to the 46th meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted in committee on June 11, 2021, the committee will commence consideration of the study of funding to locate the remains of indigenous children buried on the grounds of former residential schools.
Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, both virtual and in person, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee. It will be shown on the House of Commons website once it's available. There will be no photos for social media use. Thank you very much for abiding by that.
I want to make one statement before we commence today's meeting. This is for all staff. Today’s meeting might include some difficult testimony that can affect people in many ways. House employees, including members and their staff, can access support through the administration’s nurse counsellors at ohs-sst@parl.gc.ca, and the employee and family assistance program at 1-800-663-1142. This information is available on the House of Commons website or you can follow up with me or the clerk.
That being said, I want to welcome everyone on this beautiful Friday. It is a beautiful Friday, at least in my neck of the woods here on this little [Technical difficulty—Editor] Newfoundland, the unceded territory of the Mi’kmaq as well as Beothuk.
First of all, I want to acknowledge the fact that we are dealing with a motion from Mr. Waugh. I thank him for that.
I want to welcome our guests. Joining us from the Department of Canadian Heritage is Emmanuelle Sajous, assistant deputy minister, sport, major events and commemorations; and Melanie Kwong, director general, major events, commemoration and capital experience. Joining us from Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada is Amanda McCarthy, director, resolution and partnerships.
As you know, we start with a statement from our officials. We say as a guideline that it's five minutes, but I won't be terribly strict about this. We have perhaps a little bit more than an hour to do our meeting today. I would like to do two rounds of questioning.
Ms. Kwong, you have the floor for five minutes. Welcome.
Melanie Kwong
View Melanie Kwong Profile
Melanie Kwong
2021-06-18 13:06
Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members.
I would just like to mention that my colleague Emmanuelle is having some connection difficulties, so I'll be speaking on her behalf to begin the remarks.
Dear members of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. I'm pleased to be appearing before you today.
Recognizing that I'm speaking on my colleague's behalf, I would like to acknowledge that today I'm speaking to you from the Treaty No. 7 territory of the Stoney Nakoda and Blackfoot Confederacy, as well as Métis region 3 in Alberta.
I'm here to give you information on funding provided by the Department of Canadian Heritage for activities related to the commemoration of the history and legacy of residential schools.
First, I would like to acknowledge the committee's support in making the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation a reality. This year, on September 30, we will mark the first anniversary of this important day that will help ensure that the tragic history and legacy of residential schools are not forgotten and remain a vital component of the reconciliation process.
In 2019, the federal budget provided $7 million over two years for projects to raise awareness of the history and legacy of residential schools and to honour survivors, families and communities. The department developed a two-year strategy. The first year we funded large-scale national initiatives that have an educational and legacy component. The second year was for community-based projects suited to meet specific needs, histories and realities.
This funding provided grants and contributions to eligible recipients for initiatives that helped raise awareness regarding the history and legacy of residential schools and for activities that enabled communities to recognize, commemorate and honour survivors, their families and communities. Interest in this special initiative was remarkable with over 350 applications totalling $14 million in requested funding, despite the challenges caused by the pandemic.
Between 2019 and 2021, several national events and 203 community projects were funded. Examples of eligible projects include: healing gardens, ceremonies, healing workshops, elder presentations, speaker series, commemorative plaques and monuments, educational and awareness material, and cultural and artistic initiatives.
These numbers show the interest and need for these types of commemorative activities and funding to support them.
I'm happy to report that budget 2021 made the funding announced in budget 2019 permanent, with $13.4 million over the next five years and $2.4 million in ongoing support. The department will be engaging indigenous groups, survivor organizations and communities to determine how best to allocate funds. It is critical to engage to ensure this funding best meets the needs of indigenous communities and that we adhere to the principle of “nothing about us without us”.
In parallel with this national engagement, the department will collaborate with national organizations for large‑scale commemorative events in 2021 that will continue to raise awareness regarding the history and legacy that I talked about earlier.
To speak specifically on the paths to healing project, I have some points of clarification.
The Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc received a $40,000 grant for a project they called “paths to healing”. This was in the context of the funding I mentioned previously that was announced in 2019.
The objective of the program was to commemorate the history and legacy of residential schools and to honour survivors, their families and communities. The project submitted by the community was in fact for the creation of a permanent memorial site and included improvements such as benches, plants, gardens and paths within the existing heritage park. It also included commemorative events centred around Orange Shirt Day.
The use of the ground-penetrating radar technology was one of the measures taken as part of the development of this initiative. In effect, one can say that the Canadian Heritage funding contributed to the identification of the remains. However, this find was not the original intended specific purpose of the project.
Other federal departments, such as Crown‑Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, have their own initiatives that address certain calls to action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. These initiatives relate to their specific mandates.
In the specific case of missing children and burials, the Department of Crown‑Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada is the lead for calls to action 74 to 76.
This concludes my opening remarks.
Thank you.
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:11
Good afternoon. I'm tremendously sorry.
My name is Emmanuelle Sajous.
I am the assistant deputy minister at Canadian Heritage, for sport, commemorations and major events. It's nice to be here today. Thank you.
View Kevin Waugh Profile
CPC (SK)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our guests. This has been a particularly hard time in our country and I felt it very important to bring department officials forward to speak about the paths of healing and the situation in Kamloops.
When I look at the Kamloops, when Canadian Heritage gave the $40,000 grant, I see that part of it was for the ground-penetrating radar that identified the 215 gravesites.
How many other residential schools in this country have applied for the grant and the GPR? I know my province of Saskatchewan is actively involved right now, and I'm going to talk about that in a moment, but from the Kamloops story, how many now have contacted the heritage department requesting funding for the GPR?
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:13
Thank you.
As you heard in the opening remarks, the purpose of Canadian Heritage's commemorations program is to educate Canadians on the history of residential schools and create a positive environment for reconciliation. The program's goals boil down to awareness, education and promotion. We received over 350 funding applications over the course of the program. Canadian Heritage provided $3.5 million in funding for 203 projects, and Kamloops received $40,000 for a project to build a healing garden and a reconciliation centre. The horrifying discovery happened over the course of that project. The funding was earmarked for a healing garden.
I'll now give the floor to my Crown‑Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada, or CIRNAC, colleague, who will provide additional information on the number of communities that asked for radars. Ms. McCarthy?
Amanda McCarthy
View Amanda McCarthy Profile
Amanda McCarthy
2021-06-18 13:15
Thank you very much for inviting me here.
At this moment, I can say that we've received over 17 requests for more information about the funding envelope. We've provided them with the necessary information for them to access the funding. At this point we've not received more than 10 proposals, as communities work through this very difficult tragedy and listen to their communities and their survivors about the best approach to move forward.
We are here to offer our support and the resources [Technical difficulty—Editor] survivors, their organizations and communities are ready.
View Kevin Waugh Profile
CPC (SK)
Thank you.
We have lots in Saskatchewan where I come from, such as the Battleford Indian Industrial School. We have the Star Blanket Cree Nation. We have so many in our province now that are going to reach out.
There was a story in the CBC that now certain organizations want to rent these ground-penetrating radar services and go to the first nations, the indigenous groups, in my province and others. They say they have the expertise. In fact, I see SNC-Lavalin has offered their services to many in Saskatchewan and to others in this country.
I'm a little concerned about the scam aspect of this, because you really need expertise in ground-penetrating radar and how to operate it and identify it. CBC has done a very good story on the scams that are coming forward. I'm very worried that this is going to overtake what really should be happening—access to funds either from INAN or from Canadian Heritage and doing it properly—because if it isn't done properly, this is going to be another disaster in this country.
Do you have any thoughts on that?
Amanda McCarthy
View Amanda McCarthy Profile
Amanda McCarthy
2021-06-18 13:17
Thank you for that.
We engaged with over 150 participants during summer and fall 2020, and we overwhelming heard that the approach that Canada should take should be to facilitate access to resources, but the project should be community-led and informed by survivors.
We're currently reaching out with colleagues and other professionals to start the conversation about how to provide a sense of guidance on ground-penetrating radar that communities can access to enable them to make informed decisions.
View Kevin Waugh Profile
CPC (SK)
I sat on INAN for two years, and the money, as you mentioned, supposedly was there. There was $33 million over three years, and there's still $27 million left.
I heard the testimony from the National Centre of Truth and Reconciliation. It received $2.6 million to develop and maintain a student death register. However, it says the money is not flowing, and I would agree with the centre.
The program started in 2019 with over $33 million, and we've only seen $3 million to $4 million out. What is the issue here? We still have $27 million available two years later. What is the issue we are seeing in this country and the departments?
Amanda McCarthy
View Amanda McCarthy Profile
Amanda McCarthy
2021-06-18 13:19
We wanted to make sure we engaged with survivor organizations, indigenous leaders, health practitioners and archaeologists. We did that engagement over the summer and fall of last year. We had delays due to the pandemic. We supported the communities by identifying their priorities, and supported them and their members during that difficult time. We completed the engagement in November 2020, and as you're aware we now have the $27.1 million available.
View Scott Simms Profile
Lib. (NL)
Thank you, Ms. McCarthy, and thank you, Mr. Waugh.
We're now going to Mr. Battiste, who is not a regular member of our committee, but is a special guest today with his expertise. We certainly welcome him.
I know your riding is in Cape Breton, and Sydney is in it, but I've forgotten the official name.
View Jaime Battiste Profile
Lib. (NS)
I want to thank the heritage committee for giving me some time today to talk about this really important issue.
I've heard some of the members and some of the discussion regarding the need to raise awareness in commemorating Indian residential schools.
I'd like to begin by looking at some of the work we've done as a government. Yesterday, we were lucky enough to vote on Bill C-15 on UNDRIP, which was mentioned seven times in the TRC's calls to action. We've also done important work in terms of establishing a language commissioner last week, as well as the TRC calls to action regarding the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation.
We've taken a lot of big steps in government in terms of fulfilling the calls to action, but across the country there were 130 different residential schools. In a lot of these places, there is no commemoration. There is no plaque. There's nothing. As for the only residential school we had in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, there is a farm there now. There's nothing there to commemorate all of the children whose lives were lost, and all of the communities that had to go there.
Could you talk to me a bit about the $27 million our government has put towards ensuring that we move forward on the calls to action? Why is it important that these processes be indigenous-led and not government-led, community-based and based on the survivors of the residential schools, which were very different all across Canada.
I want you to speak to that a bit.
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:22
First of all, budget 2019 did in fact allocate $7 million over two years for Canadian Heritage to address residential schools.
The objective of the money was to increase awareness; to commemorate the legacy; to honour the memory of the residential school survivors, the families and communities; and to provide an opportunity for survivors to talk about this dark period of our history.
In budget 2021, we were able to get $13.4 million over five years. We now have $2.4 million a year to continue on this path and to commemorate the legacy of residential schools.
I will turn to Ms. McCarthy. Maybe you can talk about your own calls to action, and what you're doing on your side.
Amanda McCarthy
View Amanda McCarthy Profile
Amanda McCarthy
2021-06-18 13:23
The $27.1 million is the funding that's now available from the $33.8 million specifically targeted for calls to action 74 to 76. The funding is dedicated to supporting indigenous communities and survivors' organizations and their partners in locating, documenting, maintaining and commemorating burial sites associated with former residential schools, and responding to family wishes to commemorate and memorialize their losses and the children's final resting places.
View Jaime Battiste Profile
Lib. (NS)
Okay. If that's all, then, I want to touch on education a little bit. We're talking about commemoration and we're talking about raising awareness. A lot of the education components of moving forward on the calls to action [Technical difficulty—Editor] provinces and federal collaboration. Now with the truth and reconciliation day of September 30, can you talk a little about what opportunities exist around heritage in terms of how we can create more awareness and education around the Indian residential schools?
Feel free to chime in, anyone.
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:25
I'm sorry. The connection is not very good on my side. I'm not sure I understood the whole question.
View Jaime Battiste Profile
Lib. (NS)
Okay.
How can we in Canada, with our provincial governments, create more awareness and education around the Indian residential schools?
Melanie Kwong
View Melanie Kwong Profile
Melanie Kwong
2021-06-18 13:26
Sure.
In terms of education for the national day, we look forward to the first opportunity this year, now that we have the confirmation of the statutory holiday, to work with organizations nationally but also to engage to see where we can all work together on this important day. Using some of the work we've done to date in terms of commemorating a number of projects, we are continuing to work with contacts across the country. We look forward to continuing to build on the success to date.
With respect to the provinces, as you mentioned, there is a component for education. We will explore all avenues to see how we can best work together on that.
View Jaime Battiste Profile
Lib. (NS)
Can you just expand a bit on what the $2.4 million in permanent funding coming from Canadian Heritage will address when it comes to commemoration?
Melanie Kwong
View Melanie Kwong Profile
Melanie Kwong
2021-06-18 13:28
If it's all right, just because of the connection issues, maybe I'll start and then Emmanuelle can add to it, if she wants.
What the $2.4 million offers is the ongoing funding that we're very happy to know will exist in that we will be able to continue [Technical difficulty—Editor] two-year funding that was initially announced. Again, building off of the work that's been done to date, I think there's more work to be done in terms of the national piece. It was mentioned earlier that the funding announced in 2019 allowed us to do a two-year plan, where we did a national focus in the first year and then a number of community-based projects in the second year. Our focus will now be on engaging, as my colleague Amanda McCarthy said, with the organizations and representatives who will be most using the funding, now that we have that permanency, to see how best we can use those funds. That will be the approach.
Thank you.
View Sylvie Bérubé Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm speaking today from the traditional Cree and Anishinabe territory of Abitibi—Baie‑James—Nunavik—Eeyou, Quebec.
I'm pleased to participate in this meeting of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. I wish to welcome all the witnesses who are with us today.
My question is the following: what is the government's plan for excavations? We know full well that several indigenous communities, in the wake of what happened in Kamloops [Technical difficulty—Editor] Quebec, and elsewhere in Canada—I'm not forgetting that—have decided to start excavating.
So, what is your action plan to help indigenous communities?
Amanda McCarthy
View Amanda McCarthy Profile
Amanda McCarthy
2021-06-18 13:31
Thank you very much.
I'll try this with the video on, but I'll turn it off if I'm signalled that people can't hear me clearly.
The $27.1 million was announced in order to support the implementation of calls to action 74 to 76. It is accessible to indigenous organizations, communities and survivor organizations.
We are waiting to hear from indigenous voices on how best they would like us to proceed. The plan at this point is for Canada to be a facilitator of access to the support and the resources [Technical difficulty—Editor] obstacles to providing that support and listening to them on how they would like to proceed.
View Sylvie Bérubé Profile
BQ (QC)
Let's clear the air on the $27 million that were earmarked to excavate residential school grounds. Why didn't these excavations proceed? What happened? The Prime Minister has been claiming to uphold reconciliation with indigenous peoples and communities for over six years now, yet nothing has happened.
Why aren't things moving forward, and why is it taking so long?
Amanda McCarthy
View Amanda McCarthy Profile
Amanda McCarthy
2021-06-18 13:32
Thank you for the question.
We invited over 200 organizations, and approximately 150 participated in a national virtual engagement last summer and fall, in 2020. We wanted to hear from [Technical difficulty—Editor] on the best way to proceed. With the COVID pandemic, we suffered some delays in giving communities the time and the space to take the preparations they needed within their communities to address the pandemic. Then we received all of our authorities for us to proceed, and now the $27.1 million in funding is available.
We understand that this is an initial investment and that we may need to consider additional resourcing or sourcing in the future. At this point, we're listening to indigenous voices to determine the scope, the interest and how we should proceed.
View Sylvie Bérubé Profile
BQ (QC)
Yes, of course.
We heard that the funding for searching for those 215 indigenous children in Kamloops came from British Columbia.
Didn't the federal government also commit to providing funding for searching for unmarked graves on residential school grounds?
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:35
Canadian Heritage funding went to building a healing garden in the Tk'emlups community. A radar was purchased for that purpose and for searching for other artefacts, and that's when the remains were found.
Canadian Heritage provided direct funding of $40,000 for this project.
View Sylvie Bérubé Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you.
In December, the government answered my written questions regarding a status update on calls to action 81 and 82. In its response, the government revealed that only the equivalent of half of one full‑time employee was tasked with implementing call to action 81, which consists of building a monument in Ottawa to commemorate the victims of residential schools. When I asked Indigenous Services Canada officials this question [Technical difficulty—Editor]. So, I'll ask you the question.
Wouldn't you say that this effort isn't enough to implement the call to action?
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:36
I'll start answering the question, and then let my colleague, Ms. Kwong, have the floor.
Call to action 81 calls for a monument in Ottawa to commemorate residential schools, the survivors and the families. An entire team at Canadian Heritage is dedicated to monument planning. I'm not too sure that I understand what the 0.5 number refers to.
Ms. Kwong, would you like to add something?
Melanie Kwong
View Melanie Kwong Profile
Melanie Kwong
2021-06-18 13:36
I wonder whether the response to the question was in fact related to this project.
If I may, I would like to provide a small update on call to action 81, which calls for a monument. Obviously, we would like to continue working on this project. We've already had discussions with key stakeholders to determine their vision for the monument and to be able to proceed to the next steps.
We have a lot—
View Alexandre Boulerice Profile
NDP (QC)
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I would like to thank the witnesses who are here with us this afternoon as we study this crucial, fundamental issue.
I can't help but make two brief remarks as an introduction.
First, the discovery of 215 children's bodies next to the Kamloops residential school shook not only Canadian politicians, but all of Canada and Quebec as well. It provided human‑scale evidence of a harrowing tragedy that went on for almost a century, where children were uprooted from their communities and abused. Several were buried without their parents knowing about it. This discovery sent out shockwaves in Ottawa. The flags are still at half‑mast, and there are flowers, teddy bears and toys next to the Centennial Flame on Parliament Hill.
I'd like to thank my colleague, Kevin Waugh, for moving this motion.
However, eloquent speeches and good intentions unfortunately don't always lead to concrete action.
This isn't a question for the witnesses, but, nonetheless, something that I would like to be recorded in the archives.
My colleague, Niki Ashton, asked the House earlier today for unanimous consent to move and pass a motion to create an independent commission with the resources to conduct searches on the grounds of residential schools and determine whether other children are also buried there—because more have been found since the Kamloops discovery. The motion also seeks to obtain the records needed to conduct those searches.
Unfortunately, the motion was defeated, particularly due to the votes of certain members of the governing party. This is extremely disappointing.
I'm not asking you to respond to those questions, Ms. Kwong, because they're more of a political nature. I have something more tangible for you.
The final report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada has 94 calls to action. There has been little to no progress on calls to action 74, 75 and 76, despite the fact that funding has been earmarked since 2019.
When do you believe that the federal government will move forward on these calls to action?
Amanda McCarthy
View Amanda McCarthy Profile
Amanda McCarthy
2021-06-18 13:40
Thank you for the question.
It's difficult to say at this time, as we're still listening to indigenous voices as they go through this recent tragedy. As I mentioned, it's the role of government to facilitate the access to the resources, but when requested, when people are ready. This is not something that we wish to rush.
We need to make sure that we do it right. We need to make sure that it's survivors who are leading and informing the decisions. It's difficult to say at this time what the timeline may be, other than to say that Canada is here and it's ready to support and provide those resources.
View Alexandre Boulerice Profile
NDP (QC)
I understand your point of view and where you are at in your responsibilities, but it isn't very clear. It's still rather vague, unfortunately.
Earlier, Mr. Battiste asked a good question, and I would like to pick up on his idea.
I know that the federal government isn't in charge of this, but when I was young, when I was in school, in elementary or high school, I wasn't told much about the residential school tragedy. In fact, we learned about it a little late. I know that there has been a revamping of the Canadian citizenship education guide, which talks very clearing and specifically about the reality of the residential schools and this historical wound.
However, beyond that, what do you plan to do, in collaboration with the provinces, to be able to tell this tragic and dramatic story so that Canadians and Quebecers are aware of what happened, much more than what we've been told in the past? It seems to me that we have looked the other way in the last few decades. We didn't dare face the past.
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:42
As I mentioned a little earlier, the money we obtained was set out in the 2019 and 2021 budgets.
The purpose of our commemoration program is really to raise awareness, to commemorate the history and legacy of residential schools, to honour survivors and their families, and to give them the opportunity to tell their stories in the context of a healing process.
In terms of examples of projects, education and awareness materials can indeed be funded from these funds. There are also commemorative plaques, exhibits, travelling displays, healing workshops with elders, and community meals and ceremonies. There are many ways and many tools available to us to make sure that this story [Technical Difficulty—Editor] this hidden side is told.
View Alexandre Boulerice Profile
NDP (QC)
In terms of the process and how you carry out your program of commemoration and remembrance of these tragic events, I would like to understand a little bit more about how you work with indigenous organizations and jurisdictions to make sure that this is done not only with them, but also by and for them.
Melanie Kwong
View Melanie Kwong Profile
Melanie Kwong
2021-06-18 13:44
I'll answer the question, if I may.
That's the way to move forward. As I mentioned, we have the experience of these 200 projects across the country. The goal is to learn what works well and what can be improved, and to determine the demands and needs.
In response to the question about education, I would say that many of the projects funded by Canadian Heritage come from indigenous communities. For example, there are books that speak to the importance of these stories locally and nationally.
View Martin Shields Profile
CPC (AB)
View Martin Shields Profile
2021-06-18 13:45
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the department officials for being here with us today on this very important topic.
I have a couple of comments, in the sense that as a fifth-generation family in southern Alberta, I'm very familiar with Treaty 7 and the Blackfoot Confederacy. We grew up going to school with them, knowing residential schools. My mother actually taught in a residential school. This is something I'm familiar with.
I have met with many elders, some of those people I grew up with. I have met with clans, clan leaders, hereditary chiefs and elders who have survived residential schools. I've been to grave sites, marked and unmarked, in my riding. It's probably a history that some of us are very familiar with.
When we see the $33 million and only $27 million unspent, on that $27 million unspent, you sort of wonder, why is there confusion, is it a program that has been silent? I was on the heritage committee when we did the national day of recognition. There was a lot of discussion about that one. Some of the concerns I had about it were that it's federally regulated. It's not a statutory holiday for everybody. We have a problem with that one in itself, because it doesn't apply to everybody in our country.
When we talked about that day of recognition, my questions were often, “Are you putting this on their shoulders without any supports to indigenous people? Where is the connection to the rest of society, and whose onus is it going to be to carry this? Is it the school system? How are they going to do it?”
You mentioned the book. I mentioned that book should have been written and distributed everywhere in the country.
I think we have lots of problems here, in the sense of where we are going forward.
Our national [Technical difficulty—Editor] to indigenous people, the government hired...and I met with them. There was a play written about reconciliation, to do with Siksika and the first nations, by the Strathmore High School. It was viewed in a number of places. It's a phenomenal play. I said that's the kind of play that should be in Ottawa at the National Arts Centre, to bring things to people. They said they were given no money: “We were just hired, but we have no money."
I think we have a huge challenge here, in the sense of, one, confusion on who can get the money and how, and two, it's directed, I think, to indigenous people to carry the load on this, which is problematic. We're putting it back in the wrong place. We need to have a different way, because provinces do education.
Anyways, I have rambled. To the department officials, do you have any response to the concerns I have going forward on this?
Melanie Kwong
View Melanie Kwong Profile
Melanie Kwong
2021-06-18 13:48
I might start. There was a lot of information there, and I hope I can touch on most of the pieces, Mr. Shields.
I'm glad you mentioned your experiences, because, again, perhaps using this example from the funding that Canadian Heritage has been able to provide, just exactly.... When I speak about a book, I'm just looking to make sure that I have the name of it right. Part of the funding was to support the Piikani Indian residential school interviews project, for example. It's those local projects that often include commemorative programming and the component for Orange Shirt Day, like we saw in these 200 projects, which does have the ability to join some of the recognition and commemoration pieces with activities that are happening.
I think what we've seen with these 200 projects—again, this was the second year of the two-year funding—is that we have an opportunity to learn from what has happened here and, as my colleague Amanda has said, take the feedback that we're getting in terms of indigenous voices about what we can do with this money to best [Technical difficulty—Editor] we still need to do, but a lot we can learn from what's been done.
View Martin Shields Profile
CPC (AB)
View Martin Shields Profile
2021-06-18 13:49
When you said that it was a “statutory holiday”, it's a statutory holiday for federal and federally regulated.... We have a problem right off the bat in the sense of how that's going to be viewed and worked with, as provinces don't do that.
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:50
One of the goals was to make this day similar to Remembrance Day on November 11. This would be timely, as children across the country would be in school on that day. The day could be used to educate them. We could talk to them about the purpose of this day of remembrance and why it is important to remember what happened in the residential schools.
The model that will be chosen for the day of remembrance will be based on Remembrance Day of November 11.
View Martin Shields Profile
CPC (AB)
View Martin Shields Profile
2021-06-18 13:50
In western Canada, Remembrance Day is a statutory holiday, but not in the rest of the country.
View Marci Ien Profile
Lib. (ON)
View Marci Ien Profile
2021-06-18 13:50
Mr. Chair, thank you so much.
I so appreciate the witnesses who have joined us here today.
I want to thank my colleague Mr. Waugh as well for bringing forward this very important issue.
There seems to be a theme here today, and that is education or the lack thereof. Why didn't we know? It lent to the shock that everybody seemed to be in.
I want to talk a bit more about pathways to healing and what I call the “information gap”. Specifically, who is targeted in raising awareness and fostering education? Who are you targeting with that education? Who are you targeting with regard to raising awareness?
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:51
As we work to implement the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, on September 30 of each year, our first goal will be to work with indigenous communities.
So we will begin with consultations with indigenous groups, survivor groups and national indigenous organizations. We will see how best to implement this day of remembrance, how to distribute the funding, and how to properly explain the story of these people. Only after we gather all these ideas can we see how to implement them across the country.
The first thing we need to do is really engage with indigenous communities and groups to find out how they want this story to be told.
View Marci Ien Profile
Lib. (ON)
View Marci Ien Profile
2021-06-18 13:52
Yes, which makes a lot of sense because, unlike my colleague Mr. Boulerice, I didn't learn about residential schools at all when I was at school. The education gap was there and, of course, these are not stories that are being told in the media, frankly. I had a good conversation with author and journalist Tanya Talaga recently, and she said that it got to a point where she created her own production company to make sure the stories of her people were told, because there was such a gap.
I'm just wondering more about engagement with the communities. The way that it's set up, it's not top-down but bottom-up, because there are distinct indigenous nations across Canada. That is a very good thing, but I'm wondering with this engagement how children are involved. Are you involving children, who no doubt see themselves in these 215?
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:53
We will begin when we do the engagement. One of our principles will be a distinctions-based consultation. We will make sure we include Métis, first nations and Inuit in those consultations.
With respect to kids, we will work with indigenous organizations, elders, survivor circles and other groups to see how they want to be consulted.
Maybe I will turn to Melanie and my colleague Amanda to see if they want to add something to this question.
View Marci Ien Profile
Lib. (ON)
View Marci Ien Profile
2021-06-18 13:54
That's not a problem.
How has the vision changed following the 215. As my colleague Mr. Battiste mentioned, with 130 residential schools across the country, we know there will be more. The 215 will be followed by many more.
What is the vision now, and how might that have changed with this discovery?
Melanie Kwong
View Melanie Kwong Profile
Melanie Kwong
2021-06-18 13:55
Thank you for the clarification.
The thinking is that, with this increased attention right now, we will be able to amplify the first official day this September 30. In terms of the vision, it was a very tragic event that has raised all of this attention. It's actually going to be capturing people's interest for some time. We hope to hear more voices about what this day means to all Canadians. We will see.
In fact, for us, the vision would be to listen and understand what people want to hear. We have that attention now.
View Martin Champoux Profile
BQ (QC)
View Martin Champoux Profile
2021-06-18 13:56
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses once again for being with us today. This is an extremely sensitive topic we're discussing today.
I just want to be reassured, in a way. Earlier, I heard the people from the department make a connection between the funding from the Department of Canadian Heritage, that is to say the $40,000 earmarked for the creation of a memorial park, and the discovery of the children's bodies. I hope you're not making a connection between this funding and this discovery, because I would find that a bit indecent. It's a chance discovery, and I think we need to make every effort, with all of our energy and heart, to provide indigenous communities across the country with the means they will need and consider appropriate and necessary to uncover these too many tragedies that we will most likely discover in the coming months and years.
Earlier, my colleague Mr. Boulerice spoke about education received regarding indigenous history. We're from the same school system, he and I, and indeed, when we were young, in our school, we heard almost nothing about the reality of indigenous people. We heard about indigenous folklore. We thought it was charming, and it was a great story, but we realize now that the real story is completely different from what we learned in school.
We discussed this at the meetings of this committee on September 30 last year. What we were saying was that this day had to be used to correct the lack of education that existed on this issue, and that something needed to be done with this day so that it wasn't just another day off for federal public servants. We want it to be serve a purpose. It has to serve a purpose.
So I'd like you to tell me what you have in mind, because September 30, in an organizational context, is just around the corner.
What is planned, and how will you make sure this day is used, in an effective way, to educate [Technical difficulty—Editor] about the history and legacy of residential schools?
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:58
Thank you for the question.
The bill received royal assent on June 4. This is an important day and an important step in our reconciliation with indigenous peoples.
As I mentioned a little earlier, the first step will be to consult indigenous communities because what's important is to see how they want this day to be celebrated. The funding—
View Martin Champoux Profile
BQ (QC)
View Martin Champoux Profile
2021-06-18 13:59
Ms. Sajous, I'm sorry for interrupting you. I don't mean to be rude, but I only have two and a half minutes of speaking time.
This day has been planned for several months. What have you done so far and what's coming up for September 30 this year?
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 13:59
This year, we're going to organize a national event.
We're already working with indigenous organizations, including the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation and the Aboriginal Peoples Television Network, or APTN, to organize a national event.
At the same time, we're working on a consultation plan with indigenous communities to determine how we'll celebrate on September 30 in future years.
View Alexandre Boulerice Profile
NDP (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to use my time to speak to Bill C‑15, An Act respecting the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which is before the Senate.
I'm not necessarily speaking to the witnesses, but to the chief justice of the Supreme Court, who is serving as Governor General right now. I would ask him to please give royal assent to this bill as quickly as possible. We would appreciate it very much, because we don't want to have to go through this process again, which was started by my colleague Romeo Saganash.
At the same time, I would like to reiterate that the Liberal government should end court challenges related to compensation for residential school victims and children who are not receiving their fair share of health and social services.
My question is more directly addressed to our witnesses.
There is talk of implementing a program to commemorate the victims of residential schools and to talk about the reality of residential schools. How do you plan to distribute the investments in the communities to fulfill this duty to remember? The reality has been different in many parts of the country.
There were 130 residential schools in Canada, only 11 of them were in Quebec. Of course, that doesn't take any responsibility away from Quebec. Still, I wonder if the investments will be made in proportion to the number of residential schools, victims and children who attended these institutions or if 10% of the funding will be provided by province.
What are you considering? What is the plan?
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 14:01
Thank you for the question.
First, we'll undertake a consultation phase, which will be conducted in a manner that takes into account the particularities of rights‑bearing communities. We'll work with first nations, Inuit and Métis.
Then we'll have a better idea of how the money will be distributed. [Technical difficulty—Editor] regional to ensure that the money will be distributed across the country.
At this point, I can't tell you if these investments will be made on a per capita basis, but it will certainly be discussed in the conversations we have, and the decision will be made with indigenous communities and survivor circles.
View Alexandre Boulerice Profile
NDP (QC)
Thank you for the answer.
I'll ask one last question if I have enough time.
You talk a lot about the work that needs to be done in collaboration with indigenous communities, and rightly so. How do you plan to work with the provinces? This is another aspect that has been raised.
Emmanuelle Sajous
View Emmanuelle Sajous Profile
Emmanuelle Sajous
2021-06-18 14:02
At this point, we are planning to work primarily with indigenous communities across the country. We don't have a specific plan for the provinces yet.
Fay Blaney
View Fay Blaney Profile
Fay Blaney
2021-06-15 11:55
I couldn't get onto Zoom. It was insane.
Anyway, Cherry said to me that incest is the boot camp for prostitution. My second point that I really want to make is that indigenous girls are sexually exploited, and it leads right into being trafficked or prostituted.
In my final section, I want to offer some recommendations. I'm titling that section “Nothing About Us Without Us”. It's kind of ironic, and I'll explain that later.
In the first part about the complexities that indigenous women face, I want to borrow from the literature review that the Native Women's Association of Canada did. They cite a UN global study talks about how trafficking victims are targeted. Traffickers go after women who are young, female, poor, undereducated and who come from dysfunctional homes and are searching for a better life. To that I would add the child welfare system. Indigenous women coming out of the child welfare system are very much targeted for trafficking.
I really want to underscore the fact that there's a huge lobby in this country to legalize prostitution, the sex work lobby. They're one dimensional in their perspective. I want to point out that there are huge complexities with indigenous women that are not factored into their equation. I don't need to say a whole lot about that because there has been so much happening in the media, such as the 215 children, plus the 104 more who have been found.
We know we struggle with racism—deeply rooted racism—and genocide in this country. Out of that we have a great deal of poverty. That's showing up in the levels of homelessness across this country. Indigenous women and their children are very much impacted by that.
Further, I just think that misogyny gets missed so much in our conversations around colonization. Misogyny plays a huge role—patriarchy plays a huge role—in what's happening to indigenous women and girls.
We have a member of the Aboriginal Women's Action Network—I'm hoping she's watching today—who never lets us forget that women with disabilities are often not considered in our conversations about sexual exploitation. Often, indigenous women become disabled as a result of violence.
We're marginalized in all of the institutions across this country. There are the cases that have been brought forward by Cindy Blackstock on child welfare, and right across this country there is the fact that so many of our children are in care.
The justice system, the racism within the justice system, and the police misconduct.... It's right through the whole system; I'm not picking only on the police. There have to be justice reforms. There should have been more in the mandate of the national inquiry to address the behaviour of the justice system.
The health care system, as my friend there has mentioned, the way she was treated.... Within our first nations government even, indigenous women are marginalized in all of those systems.
Within that process, we begin to believe what's being imposed on us, what's being force-fed to us. That message comes to us daily, routinely, everywhere. Every which way you slice it, indigenous women are marked to be lesser than, so we're very much targeted for trafficking. That's deemed to be the only role that we're capable of in Canadian society.
That's my first point. The complexities that indigenous women face in how we end up being sexually exploited have to be factored in. It's not an isolated instance of, “Oh, I'm so proud to be a sex worker, look at me.” There are many more factors at play that result in women being sexually exploited in the indigenous community.
For my second point, with regard to young women and girls, I often point to Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond's report when she was the representative for children and youth here in B.C. She released a report that looked over a three-year period. She examined all cases of sexual abuse within foster homes. The result of her study was that almost 70% of victims were indigenous girls. I think 20-something per cent were indigenous boys. When you look at all those percentages, there's barely anybody else being abused besides indigenous children.
We are definitely groomed for sexual exploitation, and we come to accept that as our fate in our lives. There are numerous other studies. I looked at the study that came out of the Vancouver Rape Relief & Women's Shelter, where they also examined 100 calls over a certain period of time. In their report they said that 12% of the callers were under the age of 14 when they were being sexually exploited, 12% were between the ages of 14 and 15, and 18% were between the ages of 16 and 18. That's pretty high when you think that almost half of indigenous callers were underage when they were being sexually exploited or trafficked.
In the report by Melissa Farley and Jacqueline Lynne, they tell us that of the women who were involved in their study, 96% of the indigenous women said they were being sexually abused as children before they entered into prostitution, or were being trafficked.
View Kevin Waugh Profile
CPC (SK)
Thank you.
We did send out the notice of motion on Wednesday, June 9, and I will read it into the record:
That the Committee invite officials from the Department of Canadian Heritage to testify about the funding for the discovery of the remains of two hundred and fifteen Indigenous children on the grounds of a former residential school in Kamloops, and what would be required to extend these efforts to all residential schools where unmarked graves may exist; and that Chief Rosanne Casimir of the Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation be invited to discuss the process of obtaining funding, how sufficient it was relative to the task, and what remains to be done.
I move my motion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
View Marc Miller Profile
Lib. (QC)
Kwe kwe. Unnusakkut. Tansi. Hello.
Hello.
Before I begin, I want to acknowledge that in Ottawa, I'm on the traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.
First and foremost, I do want to say a few words for the communities, families and friends impacted by the tragic news of the children whose remains were recently found at the former Kamloops residential school located on the traditional territory of the Tk'emlúps te Secwe̓pemc people.
I'd like to thank the members for their continued advocacy and echoing indigenous voices here in Parliament.
While this discovery has shocked and disturbed the nation, for indigenous peoples across the country, these findings are deeply painful, traumatizing and triggering, although they are not surprising, particularly for the indigenous peoples who have known this truth for far too long.
Our thoughts remain with the families and communities impacted not only by this discovery but by the residential school system. It is essential that we respect and continue to respect the privacy, space and mourning period of those communities that are collecting their thoughts and putting together their protocols as to how to honour these children.
We recognize that there is a continuing need for psychological wellness services associated with childhood and intergenerational trauma. We will continue to work with our partners and the communities, first and foremost to ensure adequate access to appropriate services.
The survivors and the families affected by the indigenous residential schools system have access, among other things, to the national Indian residential schools crisis line if they need it. The Indian residential schools resolution health support program also offers access to elders, to traditional healers and to other appropriate forms of cultural and emotional support, as well as to professional mental health counselling.
In addition, all indigenous peoples can access the hope for wellness help line, online or by phone, to get help. During the COVID-19 pandemic, we are offering additional support so that indigenous communities can adapt and broaden mental health services.
We also recently announced $597.6 million over three years for a mental health and wellness strategy based, of course, on the distinct characteristics of the First Nations, the Inuit and the Métis Nation. The strategy includes continuing support for former residential schools students and their families. It will be based on existing competencies and will help to fill gaps and respond to the existing, emerging and future needs of indigenous communities.
I'm here today to answer your questions on the supplementary estimates (A) for 2021-22 and to provide you with an update on continuing efforts to confront the evolving COVID-19 pandemic. I will also answer any other questions that the committee chooses.
For this year, the total authority will be $18.9 billion, which reflects a net increase of $5.4 billion. This includes support for initiatives such as funding for COVID-19 responses, including, notably, $760.7 million for the indigenous community support fund that has been so welcomed, $64 million for the continuation of public health responses in indigenous communities and $332.8 million for indigenous communities affected by disruptions to their revenue due to COVID-19, which we announced, made official and launched yesterday.
The net increase for the supplementary estimates (A) also includes $1.2 billion for out-of-court settlements to advance Canada's overall commitment to reconciliation by paving the way to a more respectful and constructive relationship with indigenous peoples.
It also includes $1.1 billion for child and family services to support a proactive agreement on a non-compliance motion before the CHRT. The funding is crucial. Since the CHRT issued its first order for Canada to cease its discriminatory practices in 2016, we have been working with first nations leaders and partners to implement the tribunal's orders, and we are in compliance. The $1.1 billion will go to communities that are engaged in activities that prevent the apprehension of kids and contribute to the transformation of the system that has been so broken.
Let me be clear once again. We share the same goal: First nations children historically harmed by the child welfare system will receive fair, just and equitable compensation. The government is not questioning or challenging the notion that compensation should be awarded to first nations children who were harmed by the historical discrimination and underfunding of the child welfare system. The question is not whether we compensate; it is a question of doing so in a way that is fair, equitable and inclusive of those directly impacted.
To this end, we have already consented to certification of the consolidated class action filed in the Federal Court by the Assembly of First Nations and Councillor Xavier Moushoom regarding the same children who were harmed by the system, as contemplated by the CHRT. Furthermore, we are currently in mediation with the partners, but as is set out in the mediation agreement, those discussions will remain confidential out of respect.
We remain committed to providing first nations children access to the necessary supports and services in partnership with indigenous peoples. To that effect, it's important to note that 820,000 claims under Jordan's principle have been processed since 2016, which represents close to $2 billion in funding.
Most notably, in January 2020, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families came into force. It is key to this conversation in transforming the relationship, responding to the calls to action and setting a new way forward. Indigenous governments and communities have always had the inherent right to decide things that people like me take for granted; that is, what is best for their children, their families and their communities. The act provides a path for them to fully exercise and lift up that jurisdiction.
As a result of this work led by indigenous communities, two indigenous laws have now come into force under the federal law, the Wabaseemoong Independent Nations law in Ontario and the Cowessess First Nation Miyo Pimatisowin Act in Saskatchewan. In each of these communities, children will have greater opportunity to grow up and thrive immersed in their culture and surrounded by loved ones.
I will now move on to an update on COVID-19.
Throughout the pandemic, and still today, Indigenous Services Canada has been aware of the particular vulnerability of indigenous communities to the virus.
From the outset, we knew that immediate, decisive measures were necessary to protect the communities as best we could. Our absolute priority was the safety, health and well-being of the First Nations, the Inuit and the Métis.
However, without the dedication and determination of all of the leaders of those communities, none of that would have been possible. I want to thank them for their continuous work over the last year, in particular in encouraging the members of their communities to get vaccinated.
With respect to vaccine roll-out, as of June 7, 687 indigenous communities had campaigns underway. In total, that corresponds to 540,581 doses administered, including first and second doses.
This means that 41% of eligible people aged 12 and over in the communities or living in the territories have received two doses of the vaccine. This is crucial in the communities where the population is predominantly young.
In addition, 80% of people have received a first dose, and if we consider those aged 12 and over, we are talking about 72%. So this is tremendous progress.
With respect to the number of cases, as of June 9, in First Nations communities, we are aware of 761 active cases, which is, fortunately, a decline from the previous week. That brings us now to just about 30,568 confirmed cases of COVID-19. Of those, 29,459 people have recovered, and, tragically, 348 others have died.
I see that perhaps that you're flagging me, Bob, or do I have a couple of minutes?
View Gary Vidal Profile
CPC (SK)
I'm sorry. I have so much that I want to do here quickly.
You spoke about child and family services. I think you referenced a couple of first nations that have completed that journey or are moving down that journey of taking over their responsibilities. I've asked you this question before, and maybe that is a simple answer.
Are there so far just two first nations that have indicated their desire to do that? Just where are we at in that process? Based on some of the events of the last few weeks here, I think it's so very important that we deal with some of the current issues as well, and having first nations control of some of their child and family services is important. I'm just wondering how fast that is happening.
If you could briefly respond, I want to get into one more detailed question, if I could.
View Marc Miller Profile
Lib. (QC)
Yes, and I'll be quite frank: It's slow. Certainly, the pandemic, where people have focused on their health and safety of the communities has resulted in a slowdown. This is a revolutionary piece of legislation that lifts up inherent rights of indigenous peoples. We have dozens and dozens of communities across Canada that have expressed interest. There was about $500 million or more in the fall economic statement that was dedicated to working on capacity, to putting those laws forward and entrenching them.
We want to make sure that we have proper coordination agreements in place with provinces that hold the bulk of that responsibility. There's a relationship aspect there with the provinces, including your home province, that we can't discount in all of this, but there are many more.... There are some that have lifted up their own legislation and have said, “We're not necessarily interested in Bill C-92, but this is how we're going to protect our children.” That has some validity as well.
We're very cautious in those estimates, but I would say for the benefit of this committee that there are dozens and dozens that have done good work along the way. There are some difficult challenges ahead in and around capacity, so I won't hide that from you, but it is a long road, and it is part and parcel of everything we've seen in the last week.
View Adam van Koeverden Profile
Lib. (ON)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I will have two questions for the minister. I would start by asking him to answer the first one, and to leave enough time to answer the second.
First, in January 2020, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families came into effect to affirm the jurisdiction of indigenous communities over child and family services. How will this act support the well-being of indigenous children and families and provide culturally relevant care to children? Could you please provide an update on the implementation of this act?
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