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View Wayne Easter Profile
Lib. (PE)
We've heard the explanation on the amendment and I will have to give a chair's ruling.
The amendment attempts to remove proposed subsections 8(1) and 8(1.1) in clause 291 of the bill. The effect would be to revert back to the existing text of the Canada Recovery Benefits Act, which provides for a payment of $500.
Since the bill provides for a decrease of these payments, this amendment, if adopted, would result in increasing payments from the consolidated revenue fund. The amendment as proposed is therefore inadmissible, as it requires a royal recommendation since it imposes a new charge on the public treasury. As I think Mr. Julian and Mr. Ste-Marie mentioned, this ruling applies to both BQ-7 and NDP-18. The amendments are inadmissible under the rules.
Are there any challenges to that? Everyone seems quiet. There's no challenge?
View Peter Julian Profile
NDP (BC)
He's a very polite member of Parliament. I'm less polite.
The government should be doing this. The government could provide a royal recommendation on this. It's outrageous that it is choosing to slash benefits at such a critical time, particularly when it has been so amazingly generous with Canada's big banks and Canada's billionaires.
It's an outrage, quite frankly, so yes, I will challenge your ruling on that basis. A government that actually cared about the people affected by COVID would not be doing this.
View Wayne Easter Profile
Lib. (PE)
Polite or not, Mr. Julian, you speak from the heart.
Ms. Dzerowicz, there's a challenge to the chair, so I'll take that up first and then go to you.
Mr. Clerk, could you poll the committee on the chair's decision?
(Ruling of the chair sustained: yes 9; nays 2)
Jerry Dias
View Jerry Dias Profile
Jerry Dias
2021-05-20 12:51
Thank you very much, Mr. Easter.
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. I’m pleased to be here today to provide input on the budget implementation bill. My name is Jerry Dias, and I'm the national president of Unifor.
Just as an aside, it's always my pleasure to appear before many MPs I have had some stimulating debates and conversations with over the years. Once I give my presentation I'm going to have to get off the call. I'll be speaking to the Prime Minister very shortly on a variety of things, but also I have my national executive board meeting going on as we speak and I'm going to get to that once I'm finished with the Prime Minister.
Since the beginning of the pandemic, Unifor has advocated for governments at all levels to put policies in motion to build a fair, inclusive and resilient economic recovery. We call it our “build back better” plan. This year’s budget and the first budget implementation bill show the government is at least on the right track. There are a number of items in the bill that are a good start but need some improvement.
These are the items I will bring to your attention today. First, I want to address the minimum wage. Reinstating the federal minimum wage and increasing it to $15 an hour is a long overdue move. It will significantly impact more than 67,000 people working in the federally regulated sector, but $15 an hour is no longer adequate. The truth is that we’ve been calling for a $15 minimum wage for many years now. It may have been enough five years ago, but it's certainly not enough today.
Frankly, the government was talking about implementing this in 2019, and even then it would have been somewhat short. The minimum wage should be set at 60% of the median wage for full-time workers. This was the recommendation of the government’s own expert panel on modern federal labour standards. Following this policy would set the minimum wage at $16.73. Government should be adjusting the minimum wage annually by inflation or by the average annual wage increase, whichever is higher, and establishing a federal low-wage commission to monitor the impact of low wages on workers and the labour market.
Second, I want to address the employment insurance and recovery benefit extensions.
Extending the wage subsidy program is an important step in keeping workers employed during this tumultuous time. The ramp-down rates make sense in many circumstances, but for the hardest-hit sectors, such as air transportation, this change can make the difference between a worker keeping their job or not. We recommend increasing the top-up rate for companies with significant, persistent revenue decline, as they may not be eligible for the Canada recovery hiring program because they are not yet ready to hire new workers.
The executive compensation rule for publicly traded companies should be applied for all wage subsidy support received in 2021, and not just what is received after June 5.
The extension of the Canada recovery benefit and the temporary changes to employment insurance are important. Together, EI and the CRB have illustrated the incredibly important role income support plays in stabilizing workers' lives and the need to fix our currently broken EI system with permanent reforms. We recommend some additional items to strengthen the positive effects these programs can have, including reducing the qualifying hours from the current 420 to 360, and maintaining the minimum benefit rate at $500, while increasing the income replacement rate.
Third, the budget takes an important step in stabilizing employment at airports by reducing some of the negative effects of contract flipping. We support the change and encourage consultation on the regulations in order to ensure all workers are protected by it. In order to further reduce the negative effects of contract flipping, government should extend successor rights.
Fourth, implementing the digital tax on digital giants and extending HST to streaming services are important steps to creating a level playing field and ensuring that large, digital corporations are paying their fair share. We're very concerned that the laws put in place will result in the digital giants not paying their fair share. That outcome would be unacceptable.
Fifth, the modest changes to OAS acknowledge that the current retirement security system does not provide adequate income for retirees, but it is not enough. Government should be exploring innovation in providing defined benefit plans for workers instead of looking to modest changes for the worst off and annuities that mimic retirement security provided by a DB plan, but deliver less.
Finally, the nod to the importance of Canada-made, zero-emission vehicles through tax incentives is incredibly important and a worthwhile endeavour. I will take a moment to remind folks that we do not yet build ZEVs in Canada. We have to keep this in mind as we consider ways to encourage consumer adoption, but we don't need millions in public dollars subsidizing imports. If we want to build this industry in Canada, and I think we do, all policies, including the development of charging stations, must move in lockstep with our industrial development plans.
Thank you. Kaylie will look forward to taking your questions.
Once again, thank you all very much for your time today.
View Peter Fragiskatos Profile
Lib. (ON)
I think it's good to think in terms of counterfactuals here. If we hadn't had these emergency supports introduced, we would have had entrepreneurs, including women entrepreneurs, left on their own to fend for themselves.
I take your point. I won't go into the substance of what you articulated earlier. We have limited time, again, but I do think that we need to acknowledge that these programs have helped people, including women business owners, in a very real way. They have provided a lifeline. I've seen in my own community where women business owners have utilized the wage subsidy. Their workers have utilized the CERB and later the CRB. Would you acknowledge that?
Nancy Wilson
View Nancy Wilson Profile
Nancy Wilson
2021-05-18 17:32
CERB, absolutely. CERB and CRB, 100%. CERB was very much designed for individuals and self-employed individuals. CERB and CRB were a real lifeline. If you want me to acknowledge that those financial programs helped businesses, including some women-owned businesses, it's acknowledged, absolutely acknowledged. It's on the record.
I am not arguing against those programs. I'm not saying that they shouldn't exist. I'm arguing about including, adding or extending programs and designing programs that will help the most number of business owners.
View Jean-Yves Duclos Profile
Lib. (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would first like to thank the committee for inviting me to discuss the Main Estimates 2021-2022 and the Treasury Board Secretariat's Departmental Plan 2021-2022.
I am accompanied today by some senior officials in my department, whom I will briefly introduce. They are: Glenn Purves, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Roger Ermuth, Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Karen Cahill, Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Sonya Read, Acting Assistant Secretary, Digital and Services Policy, and Tolga Yalkin, Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services.
The 2021-22 main estimates seek funding for the continuation of previously approved programs and services, as well as investments to support Canadians through the COVID-19 pandemic and to establish essential conditions for a successful economic recovery. These investments include economic support to Canadian citizens and businesses, vaccine funding, expanded support for pandemic-related mental health tools, virtual care and many others.
The main estimates provide information on $342.2 billion in proposed spending for 123 organizations. This can be further broken down into $141.9 billion in voted expenditures and $200.3 billion in statutory expenditures already authorized through existing legislation. Some $22.7 billion is related to the COVID-19 pandemic response. This includes just over $10 billion for the Canada recovery benefit, the Canada recovery sickness benefit and the Canada recovery caregiving benefit.
I would like to point out some significant changes in statutory spending from last year's main estimates. These include payments to individuals under the Canada Recovery Benefits Act, which I just mentioned. Other changes of those are updates to major transfer payments, notably benefits for the elderly and the Canada health transfer, and increased climate action incentive payments published in the 2020 fall economic statement.
The main estimates exclude certain items listed in the 2020 fall economic statement which do not require annual parliamentary approval, such as the Canada emergency wage subsidy and employment insurance.
For my own department, the Treasury Board Secretariat, the expenditures listed in the Main Estimates 2021-2022 include $3.7 billion for items such as government contingencies, government-wide initiatives, paylist requirements, the operating budget carry forward, the capital budget carry forward, and expenditures related to compensation.
The remainder of the Treasury Board Secretariat's expenditures are to continue to enhance the clarity and consistency of financial and performance reporting and to support the government's response to the pandemic.
The budget also contains a little more than $3 billion for our responsibilities as an employer. These are payments with respect to public service pensions, benefits and insurance, including the employer's contributions to health insurance, salary insurance and life insurance premiums.
The department's expenditures will also be used to prepare the public service for the future, in matters such as diversity, inclusion and accessibility, and to ensue compliance with the official languages legislation.
The funds are also used for negotiations with public sector unions, and to lead the implementation of the Pay Equity Act. These activities are described in more detail in the Treasury Board Secretariat's departmental plan 2021-2022, which, as I understand it, has piqued the committee's interest.
Departmental plans play a fundamental role in the expenditure cycle by outlining and describing organizational priorities linked to the funding sought through the main estimates. The departmental plans set out the objectives and expected results for departments and how they will achieve these results throughout the year.
In the case of the Treasury Board Secretariat, I would like to highlight a few of these commitments. For 2021-22, the secretariat will support the government's COVID-19 pandemic response by providing additional guidance to departments for implementing policies, programs and initiatives related to the response.
In collaboration with Finance Canada, the secretariat will also track the impact of the government's fiscal response to inform and support decision-making and investments going forward.
Other important objectives include reducing greenhouse gas emissions from federal operations and recruiting people to the public service from communities across Canada.
In addition, the secretariat actively works to support the creation of healthy, safe and inclusive workplaces, and to speed up government efforts to achieve a public service that is representative of the Canadian population it serves.
My department is also committed to efforts to reform regulations in order to help Canadian companies be more competitive, to improve transparency, to reduce the administrative burden, and to harmonize regulations.
These reforms will be undertaken with the assurance that we will be protecting the environment and the health and safety of Canadians.
In conclusion, the priorities set out in the secretariat's departmental plan and the investments requested in the main estimates reflect the priorities of our government and of Canadians.
We continue to prioritize the way these estimates are presented, with extensive explanatory documentation which is readily accessible to parliamentarians and Canadians alike online.
Thank you again for your kind invitation to speak with you today. My officials and I would be delighted to answer any questions you may have.
View Peter Julian Profile
NDP (BC)
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to all our witnesses for coming here today. That includes the departmental witnesses. We hope your families continue to stay safe and healthy.
Congratulations, Madam Freeland, for shattering that glass ceiling as the first Canadian woman to present a national budget.
Now, the context of that national budget is that Canadians are suffering through an unparalleled crisis. At the same time, we've seen Canadian billionaires increase their wealth by $78 billion. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians have not been able to return to work. Yet Bill C-30 slashes, in just a few weeks' time, as the third wave crashes on our shores—the most devastating wave yet—the CRB from $500 a week to $300 a week. At the same time, it does nothing to address the fact that Canadian students are having to pay back student loans during a pandemic.
Will the government accept amendments to ensure that the CRB is not slashed from $500 to $300 in the midst of a pandemic and that students get a debt moratorium so that they are not having to pay back student loans in the middle of this crisis?
View Chrystia Freeland Profile
Lib. (ON)
Mr. Julian, thank you very much for the question and for your continued advocacy for low-wage workers and students.
Let me start with students. I do believe that this budget provides unprecedented support for students and young Canadians, with more than $5 billion in support for young Canadians. It includes support in three things, actually, in the Canada student grant—in extending to 2023, as I said in my remarks, the interest moratorium and also in lowering the amount and raising the income threshold at which Canadian students need to begin repaying their loan after they graduate. That is real support for our young people, and they deserve it.
I'm happy to talk about the CRB later on, if you would like. I see that you're wanting to speak, Mr. Julian.
Mr. Chair, maybe I've run out of my time for an answer.
View Peter Julian Profile
NDP (BC)
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to our witnesses for being here.
I will be a bit repetitive. I didn't get answers in the first round, so bear with me.
My first question is about the slashing of the CRB. We have the third COVID wave. The variants are tragically taking hold. I'm wondering what the analysis of the finance ministry has been of the impact of reducing the CRB from $500 a week to $300 a week in July. How many people, at this point, do you assume will be on CRB if the third wave increases? What is the range—the highest level, with a tragic escalation of the third wave, and the lowest level?
That's my first question.
Pierre Céré
View Pierre Céré Profile
Pierre Céré
2021-04-22 17:19
Beginning in September 2020, the government introduced programs to replace the Canada emergency response benefit, known as CERB, including the Canada recovery benefit, or CRB. Administered by the Canada Revenue Agency, the CRB provides income support to those who are not eligible for employment insurance, or EI, meaning, self-employed workers.
The second thing we have learned is this. Last year's collapse of the EI program—a serious situation—is mostly due to the numerous cutbacks made in the 1990s, specifically from 1990 to 1996, under two different governments. The past 25 to 30 years have been spent under something of a leaden blanket. All that time, the government had the EI program in a straitjacket, if you will, to keep the program from doing its job. We saw what happened last year.
Without the emergency measures put in place in the spring of 2020—CERB, the Canada emergency student benefit, the flexible EI regime, the CRB, and the Canada emergency wage subsidy, or CEWS—we would have seen misery in our towns and villages, as our grandparents saw in the 1930s. The support measures have helped people not only pay the bills and keep their heads above water, but also inject a considerable amount of money into the local economy. The government has been there to help people and avoid what could have been even worse.
To our knowledge, this is the first time in the country's history that a government has responded so strongly to support its population in the face of such a serious crisis. The government introduced streamlined programs, while covering sectors previously overlooked by the EI program. It is, in a way, a true social Marshall Plan that the government has put in place since last year.
Some elements have yet to be fixed. First, the administrative delays for EI are still very long. Second, the Canada Revenue Agency and Service Canada work in silos. The poor communication between the two agencies is resulting in longer wait times and mistakes.
In addition, a March 2021 study by the International Monetary Fund, or IMF, suggested avoiding a premature withdrawal of support programs, while underscoring that the lessons learned from the crisis provide an excellent opportunity to review the EI system, including its role as an economic stabilizer. I don't say this kind of thing often, but the IMF is right. Until the crisis is over and as long as EI is not reformed, support programs to help self-employed workers must continue. The measures in Monday's budget appear to move in that direction, but the changes to EI need to go beyond temporary fixes.
The government has had time to make up its mind. When it comes to EI, no stone has been left unturned, every problem has been identified and all the solutions have been on the table for 25 years. Now is the time to permanently reform the system.
A crisis like the one we are experiencing can become the necessary trigger to rethink the importance of our social safety net. It happened in the past, during the dirty thirties and after the Second World War. This crisis should lead us to rebuild the foundation of the EI program, with two objectives: expanded coverage for self-employed workers, with better access for seasonal and precarious workers, indigenous communities and part-time workers; and improved protection.
Something else we must reflect on is the environmental transition and the need for determined actions. This COVID-19 pandemic may just be a big rehearsal before the next crisis, the climate crisis. We have huge challenges ahead of us and we must be up to the task.
We believe that this government has demonstrated its capacity to initiate such a shift and that it can do so by reaching out to constructive opposition and civil society.
Thank you.
Philip Hemmings
View Philip Hemmings Profile
Philip Hemmings
2021-04-15 17:22
Good afternoon. Thank you for this opportunity to appear before the Standing Committee on Finance.
This presentation draws largely on the OECD economic survey of Canada that was published on March 11. Our report is generally positive about the suite of economic policy measures that was introduced in 2020 and the subsequent evolution of those measures. The initial policy response was viewed as being appropriately rapid. The steps taken were also seen as having performed a reasonably good job in ensuring income support to those households and businesses most severely affected.
Canada was ranked as having one of the largest packages of fiscal support in an international comparison the OECD made in autumn of last year. Canada's package at that time, when we added it up, was worth around 13 percentage points of GDP. Other countries with large fiscal packages in this comparison were Italy, Germany, Australia and Japan. We'd also underscore that prudent fiscal policy in Canada over past years has helped provide scope for this sizable fiscal support.
Canada's menu of support has become more targeted, which is welcome. Notably, there has been the transition from the Canada emergency response benefit to the more focused benefits, including the Canada recovery benefit, the CRB. To be sure, there will be scope for technical improvements to some of these schemes that are still operating. For instance, our report flags that the 50% clawback rate of the CRB could perhaps be dissuasive to individuals in returning to employment.
Our report emphasizes that for the time being, a focus on keeping these supplementary channels of support open is appropriate to help economic recovery. Financial assistance for households should ensure gaps and support are covered. For businesses, continued focus is needed on nurturing their recovery.
It is worth emphasizing, I think, that, even with the retention of supplementary support, the very large deficit generated in 2020 will partially unwind. The shift back from blanket support suggests smaller outlays. Also the recovery process itself, unless reversed by another shock, will bring deficit reduction through revenue increases and diminished spending demands.
The crisis has raised a question as to whether the safety net provisions available in normal times are adequate. The recent commitment to introduce automatic tax filing for simple returns, partly so that more low-income households receive the tax credits as well, is welcome. In addition, permanent change to income support may be required to make social safety nets more reliable, timely and effective. This is challenging to implement. Our report suggests that one route would be for provinces and territories to upgrade their safety net welfare provisions, possibly with financial assistance from the federal government.
In principle, a guaranteed income scheme offers another solution; however, our report concludes that such a scheme is likely to be overly expensive and may reduce incentives to work. While support programs should remain on offer while the economy is fragile, a clear and transparent road map for preventing a spiralling public debt burden is needed. Canada's past record in federal deficit and debt suggests that, to date, broadly defined fiscal rules have worked adequately; however, a more precise rule may provide a useful anchor for reining in the debt burden. Our survey and previous ones have specifically suggested the introduction of a numerical debt-to-GDP target.
Finally, I think it's worth underscoring—and this is something emphasized in our report—that a successful post-COVID economy also requires structural reforms that do not necessarily involve direct fiscal costs. To help the business sector, our report urges faster progress in particular on the removal of non-tariff barriers between provinces. It also supports continued attention to the competitiveness and quality of telecommunication services. In addition, it identifies scope for improving business insolvency processes. For households, the report advocates the creation of more affordable housing through measures that encourage the building of more homes, for instance, through lighter planning regulation.
This brings my introductory comments to an end.
Thank you.
View Han Dong Profile
Lib. (ON)
Like you, I look forward to seeing what will be in the budget on April 19 to support small businesses further.
Last March, Canadians realized that the EI system just wasn't designed to handle the unprecedented pandemic we were facing. That is why the CERB was created, to support what I think was eventually eight million Canadians who had lost their jobs.
In September of last year, we transitioned back to a simplified EI program and created the Canada recovery benefit for those who did not qualify under the previous EI qualifications.
Based on the input from your membership, how would you say the flexibility within the Canada recovery benefit will create more incentive to work? Have you heard anything back from them on that?
Corinne Pohlmann
View Corinne Pohlmann Profile
Corinne Pohlmann
2021-04-15 17:21
As I mentioned, the one thing our members found difficult was that you could get a maximum of $500 per week through the CRB or the simplified EI system, and for some of them that has presented a real challenge as they have tried to attract people back to work, especially businesses that often rely on part-time workers, for example. That has been the one measure within the CRB and the temporary EI system that has been a real challenge for smaller companies, because some people were able to earn more not going back to work than going to work, since they might work only part time. I think those are some of the things we really have to think about before we move forward with making any permanent changes that may reflect some of those things.
View Han Dong Profile
Lib. (ON)
That's very interesting.
In your opinion, what are the benefits of having Canadians receive EI regular benefits as opposed to the CERB?
Corinne Pohlmann
View Corinne Pohlmann Profile
Corinne Pohlmann
2021-04-15 17:22
Employment insurance is an insurance program, so it's based on whoever pays into it being able to benefit from it. We understand the need for CRB being set up during the pandemic, because obviously there are not just individuals who may not have paid enough into the EI system—though it also reduced the qualifying amounts by quite a bit—but also a lot of self-employed, including our members, who have used the CERB and the CRB systems to help themselves through the pandemic. About 34%-35% of our members had no income coming in, and when you're self-employed, you don't have access to the EI system, as you know. It became an important lifeline for some of them as well.
View Han Dong Profile
Lib. (ON)
There is flexibility designed into the CRB system that allows workers to maintain employment, especially for regions that are experiencing lockdowns. Can you speak to that a bit?
Corinne Pohlmann
View Corinne Pohlmann Profile
Corinne Pohlmann
2021-04-15 17:23
That was certainly, I think, an improvement over the CERB. People could earn a certain amount of money and still get the CRB at the same time. That was definitely something we applauded at the time. I think that flexibility was an improvement in the transition to a CRB system.
View Gabriel Ste-Marie Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you.
So we're going to keep that in mind as we move forward with the CRB, the Canada Recovery Benefit, which is the continuation of the CERB.
Mr. Paquet, did you want to respond to that as well?
Judith Coates
View Judith Coates Profile
Judith Coates
2021-04-01 16:06
It's nice to see you again, honourable Chair, and also committee members. Thank you so much for inviting us to present today.
We provided a PDF of our presentation, if you would like to follow along with that.
There are over 24,000 travel advisers in Canada, and half of us are independent travel advisers. What that means is that we are small business owners. We are self-employed and the majority of us are sole proprietors.
The two key pieces of information we want to give you at this point are that 100% of our revenue comes from the commissions we earn from our travel suppliers and that 85% of all travel advisers are female. We know that women have been the hardest hit in this pandemic, and our industry is no exception.
We have been told that we're all in the same boat, but we don't believe that's true. We believe we're all in the same storm, but in many different boats, and we believe that our boat is sinking much more rapidly than a lot of other boats out there.
Part of that is because of our delayed revenue stream. We're not like an industry that sells a product and gets paid a commission cheque the following month. In our line of work, it takes between five and 11 months from when a customer makes a booking of a trip until we actually get paid for the work we have done on that booking.
If we want to assume that travel restrictions would be lifted by the end of June, and if a client came and made a booking on July 1, we would not receive any revenue from that booking and the work we've done until as early as mid-November of this year, or, more realistically, as late as June 2022.
Our first reality is that we have been without revenue for one year. We know it's going to take five to 11 months from the resumption of travel before we start to see any revenue from future bookings.
We are asking the government for sector-specific aid, because we know that the CRB is not meant to be a long-term band-aid solution. There are other countries that are already in their second round of sector-specific aid for their travel advisers, and we believe that Canada needs to follow suit.
Here's another reality. Even though we have been hindered from earning any revenue, we are business owners. We have been continuing to operate our businesses and are as busy as ever, because we are supporting our clients. When they needed to be repatriated to Canada, we were there to do that for them. When they needed assistance with their cancellations, we were there to help them. As they have been issued their future travel vouchers, we have been processing those for them and we are continually reworking those files. As they have needed assistance with insurance claims, we have been busy providing that assistance.
Although we have been quite active in our businesses, the reality is that we are slipping through the cracks because, other than the CRB, only a very small percentage of independent travel advisers have been able to receive any funding from the federal government. The CRB was designed to put food on our table and help us pay the rent, not pay our business expenses.
There's another piece to our puzzle, and that is that we know the airlines need financial assistance. They are the backbone of our travel economy, and we need them to be financially viable. We also support the option of consumer refunds. However, in November, when the former transport minister announced that airlines would not receive any bailouts unless consumers were given refunds, there was a huge trickle-down effect. WestJet and WestJet Vacations, and then Air Transat and Transat Holidays issued notices to us saying that our clients would not receive a refund until we paid back the commissions that we, the travel advisers, earned on those bookings.
In some cases, those commissions were earned by us in 2019. They have already been taxed, and there's no way that we can pay them back, nor do we believe that we should be paying back those commissions, because they were revenue earned for services we provided to those large corporations.
We need assurances from the government that bailouts will only be given on the condition that travel advisers' commissions are protected. We're asking for the government to set up a fund in the amount of $200 million to facilitate this. Until travel restrictions are lifted, consumer confidence will remain low, and we believe that if the government is going to continue to impose these restrictions, aid must be given immediately to our sector.
We're asking for your support for commission protection, first of all, to ensure that bailouts will only be given on the condition that our commissions are protected. Commission clawbacks are forcing many travel advisers into bankruptcy.
The second thing we're asking for is sector-specific aid for independent travel advisers to help keep our businesses afloat. Please ensure that our businesses, and we, won't continue to fall through the cracks.
Thank you very much.
Pascale St-Onge
View Pascale St-Onge Profile
Pascale St-Onge
2021-04-01 16:21
Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon.
First, thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to speak about your work on emergency measures during the pandemic.
The Fédération nationale des communications et de la culture, or FNCC, represents approximately 6,000 members in 80 unions. The federation also works closely with cultural unions, including the Union des artistes, the Quebec Musicians' Guild and the Association des réalisateurs et réalisatrices du Québec, to name but a few.
Together, our organizations represent more than 25,000 workers in the media, arts and culture. The FNCC represents both salaried and self-employed workers. Two weeks ago, the FNCC and its partners published a new and very troubling report on the situation of self-employed workers in the cultural sector. In short, the precarious situation that artists, creators and tradespeople in the cultural sector have faced for many decades, combined with the shutdown or increased complexity of activities resulting from the pandemic, has left our members in psychological and financial distress.
Of course, the living arts have been particularly affected by the health measures and closures. However, the entire cultural sector has been severely shaken. Now, just as venues have reopened in Quebec, it seems that we are entering a third wave.
I must point out that the average annual income of self-employed cultural workers doesn't exceed the low-income cutoff for a single person in Quebec. In 2017, this cutoff was $24,220. In 2019, none of the cultural activity areas reached this cutoff, not even the film and video industry.
This precarious financial situation and the weak social safety net available to self-employed workers make them very vulnerable during crises and slumps, which is the case for most of them. When surveyed between December and January, 64% of our members showed signs of high or very high psychological distress. This cannot continue. In this survey, we asked our members what they thought their net income would be in 2020, just from their work in the arts. Sixty-three per cent of the 1,500 respondents indicated that their net income would be less than $10,000, while 15% indicated that it would be less than $19,000. Also, over 40% of the members we surveyed are considering leaving the cultural sector.
Based on these data, we can make a few observations. First, 67% of our self-employed members have received the Canada emergency response benefit (CERB). Without it, many would have ended up with nothing to pay for their rent and food. This measure was most appropriate in providing direct help to cultural workers. Second, only 34% of cultural workers registered for the Canada recovery benefit (CRB). There appear to be a number of reasons for this drastic decline, including the fact that certain criteria, such as a job search, which was required even when the entertainment industry was still shut down, are not realistic in the cultural sector. Also, because of the fear of having to pay money back, when few of them have any savings, many don't take the risk. That being the case, the CRB should be extended for as long as this crisis lasts, and ideally, the administrative burden should be minimized to facilitate access.
Finally, apart from the CERB and, to a lesser extent, the CRB, few programs have reached artists, creators and tradespeople directly. A social safety net is needed for self-employed workers for whom intermittent work is part of the trade or profession. It is absolutely necessary to introduce an income replacement mechanism, without which it will be very difficult to remedy the precarious position of our artists and tradespeople. Need we remind you that without them, there is no culture? Improving the socio-economic living conditions of self-employed cultural workers must be a priority in all the measures that governments are considering.
As for the specific support programs for culture, such as the National Film Board, Telefilm Canada or the Canada Council for the Arts, generally speaking, these funds have been neglected and very rarely indexed for decades, which means that the entire sector was already in a difficult financial situation, and even more so for francophone content. Of course, the money is helping the sector, but it will need a lot of support in the coming years.
In closing, I'd like to take a few seconds to talk about the media sector. We reiterate the importance of placing government-wide advertising first and foremost in our Canadian media, whether in our newspapers or magazines, on television, radio or digital media. This sector was already severely disrupted by the fiscal, legislative and regulatory inequities that exist between them and the web giants.
The government must do everything it can to protect professional journalistic information, especially during these times of pandemic and misinformation, as well as our original cultural production, given that Canadians are spending more time than ever in front of screens.
The wage subsidy has also helped many media companies maintain jobs. It should also be extended for as long as necessary.
Mr. Laflamme and I would be pleased to answer your questions.
Thank you.
View Gabriel Ste-Marie Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for your presentations. You're a very interesting panel of witnesses. Ms. Slater, Ms. Coates, and Ms. Wilson, the situation in which you and your colleagues find yourselves makes no sense. Hopefully the government will find ways to help you. The documents you have provided us with are full of solutions. We want you to be heard.
Mr. Siddall, you are the president and CEO of Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. I want to applaud you and thank you for the work that you have done. I wish you all the best in the future. I also want you to thank all your teams, who have worked very hard during the pandemic. I can't resist coming back to a topic you raised on May 19, almost a year ago. At that appearance, we talked about forecasts. I told you that many economists were expecting real estate prices to rise. Of course, I hope your forecasters have learned from this crisis. It is always difficult to make forecasts. That said, thank you again for all the work you have done.
Ms. St-Onge and Mr. Laflamme, when you come to testify here, it is always troubling. You are saying that two-thirds of self-employed workers in the cultural sector are in a state of psychological distress. Only one-third of them apply for or have access to the Canadian recovery benefit (CRB). This is very troubling. It must be further noted that self-employed workers as a whole are facing difficulties. The president of Travailleurs autonomes Québec mentioned the same problem with respect to the CRB. She also reminded us that, whenever there is a small problem, an investigation is launched and it takes months to resolve the matter.
If your members are facing the same problem, can you elaborate?
Do you see a connection between the very high rate of psychological distress and the lack of resources in existing programs?
Pascale St-Onge
View Pascale St-Onge Profile
Pascale St-Onge
2021-04-01 16:49
I will start with your second question. In my opinion, because of the precarious situation in which they find themselves, self-employed workers in the cultural sector have not been able to accumulate enough savings to be able to get through periods of crisis. The current crisis is dragging on. The situation is unprecedented, but it is still a reality every day, every month or every week for the tradespeople of the sector, since they operate project by project, on contract. What has become obvious to us is that the precarious situation of the people in our sector can no longer continue. The crisis has proved that we were ill-equipped to deal with such a situation.
The CERB has been very useful. The CRB is less so. I will let Mr. Laflamme further explain why the CRB is inherently problematic.
It's clear to us that we need to work on the socio-economic status of artists, because if we don't, the cultural sector across Canada will be impoverished. Forty per cent of our members are thinking of leaving the profession, which is a serious concern.
There are labour shortages in other sectors. We don't want to have shortages in the cultural sector when the time comes to resume cultural activities.
Mr. Laflamme, do you have anything to add?
Julien Laflamme
View Julien Laflamme Profile
Julien Laflamme
2021-04-01 16:50
Yes. I will be brief. I would group the problems with the CRB into three broad categories. First, unpredictability. The income of cultural workers varies a great deal. Filing taxes and figuring out how much to repay will be a huge problem. Clearly, people who anticipate this may have questions. That's one problem.
Second, it is not clear how the program is being applied. One of the things mentioned earlier was the job search requirement. As you know, the EI system includes the concept of suitable employment for wage earners, which means that people are not required to take a job that pays less or is in a different field of expertise than their own. In the case of the CRB, the rules are less clear. It is a new program with which self-employed people must become familiar. The way it is presented by the Canada Revenue Agency is not always clear either.
Third, the duration of the program is problematic, as it is supposed to end in June and will likely have to be extended, unfortunately.
View Gabriel Ste-Marie Profile
BQ (QC)
Along these lines, just before you, we heard from representatives of the Alliance de l'industrie touristique du Québec. In order to make programs such as the wage subsidy more predictable, they asked that we announce that the latter will be extended until at least 2022. You said that the CRB should be extended for as long as it is needed. It would be good if the government could announce in the budget that will be tabled in two weeks that this subsidy will be extended until 2022, at least for the sectors you represent. What do you think about that?
Pascale St-Onge
View Pascale St-Onge Profile
Pascale St-Onge
2021-04-01 16:52
It would be great if it could be extended over a longer period of time to allow for predictability. At the same time, it would set the stage for the work that needs to be done on how to establish a social safety net for self-employed workers.
I absolutely agree. The longer it's extended, the better.
Caroline Bédard
View Caroline Bédard Profile
Caroline Bédard
2021-03-17 16:32
Good afternoon, everyone.
I would like to begin by explaining the mission of Travailleurs autonomes Québec. We are trying to get recognition for self-employed workers' rights, and to provide them with support and guidance in running a successful small business.
Another one of our missions is to get self-employed worker status legally recognized, as it is still not legally defined. The lack of a clear and precise definition is hurting many self-employed workers in all facets of their daily lives.
I just want to inform you that Canada had nearly 3 million self-employed workers before the pandemic. Unfortunately, we will certainly have fewer players after the pandemic, if that is not already the case. The pandemic we are going through very clearly shows a deficiency when it comes to that status, as no program is adapted to the reality of self-employed workers.
Let's start with the second version of the subsidy for commercial rent, the Canada emergency rent subsidy. The application form asks for the BN—business number—which is the GST number at the federal level.
Did you know that over 60% of self-employed workers in Quebec earn an income of less than $30,000 and, therefore, have no GST number?
With this being the case in Quebec, we can get an idea of what is happening in the rest of Canada's provinces and territories. If the government was thinking of helping self-employed workers pay their commercial rent, that unfortunately won't happen, as six self-employed workers out of 10 don't have a business number.
Let's now move on to the Canada recovery benefit, or CRB. Once again, we are seeing that the application forms are not adapted to self-employed workers' reality. They are once again asked what their BN is, whether they are seeking employment, whether they left their job voluntarily, whether they refused a job, and so on. Did you know that a self-employed worker is not looking for a job, but is rather looking for clients or contracts?
When businesses are forced to close by our governments because of a lockdown, and they are not deemed essential, self-employed workers are still asked to seek employment. If they say they are not looking for a job when they apply for the CRB, their application is automatically refused. Asking a self-employed worker to look for a job is a lack of respect for their small business and a very clear message that they must be salaried to receive assistance. That is actually what most agents of the Canada Revenue Agency, CRA, are currently saying on the telephone to hundreds, even thousands, of self-employed workers.
Concerning CRA agents, we can imagine that talking to them is often a nightmare and causes significant psychological distress for thousands of self-employed workers, as there is no solution. Since January 18, CRA agents have been conducting mass verifications of taxpayers who have received the Canada emergency response benefit, or CERB. They are checking earned incomes of $5,000 and more before the first CERB application. An announcement was made that it would take two to four weeks to carry out the verifications, but in reality, it is taking from six to 10 weeks and sometimes longer for some self-employed workers. We have seen it take as long as 18 weeks.
It should be pointed out that no CERB applications can currently be made while verifications are being conducted. Imagine the ordeal for those who have no other source of income during that period. Not to mention that the tone of some agents is disrespectful, to put it politely. We agree with verifications being carried out. That is normal. However, can they be limited to $5,000 of income, as stated in the messages?
Why is a self-employed worker who declared more than $25,000 in income and is calling an agent to obtain information on their file suddenly being told that, in the end, the CRA will check a host of other elements in their file? This only excessively extends wait times. That said, we cannot do anything about it, as we are currently somewhat dependent on CRA agents.
When self-employed workers say that, during the verifications, they have no other source of income, CRA agents are telling them all sorts of things. For instance, they tell them there are food banks and social assistance in their province, that it's not the agents' problem they decided to be self-employed, or that they should find themselves a job if they don't want to have problems.
The basic issue is that this status is not recognized. Let's collectively ask ourselves a question: how can we help nearly 3 million self-employed Canadians in a crisis?
Thank you.
View Louise Chabot Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you.
My question is going to be about benefits and Service Canada.
As you said, Minister, there are many benefits that have been put in place to support workers or businesses. However, I want to bring to your attention the fact that many files stalled when workers applied for the Canada recovery benefit.
Service Canada would tell them that a file in their name was already open and that blocked their application. This happened to hundreds of thousands of people. There were delays of seven to eight weeks, even though people were entitled to benefits [Technical difficulty—Editor]. On this issue, there are still documents that say the forms are not tailored to their reality. Asking a self-employed person if he's looking for a job may not be the right question to ask. They are looking for clients. There are no jobs, because businesses are closed. All of this makes for delays.
Can you assure us of smooth and timely services?
Cliff C. Groen
View Cliff C. Groen Profile
Cliff C. Groen
2021-03-16 15:26
Thank you for your question.
Up-to-date delivery of benefits is a very high priority for our department. That is why, since the employment insurance program was re-launched in October, more than 98% of all claims have already been processed and more than 94% were processed according to service standards.
On the other hand, we know that clients have sent applications to Service Canada and then to the Canada Revenue Agency. We need to work out a number of details with these clients, before we can determine if they can apply to the agency. The Canada Revenue Agency and Service Canada have a process in place to handle these applications on a priority basis.
We are committed to addressing this issue.
Thank you.
View Wayne Long Profile
Lib. (NB)
Minister, certainly I'll echo that. Certainly in my constituency office here in Saint John-Rothesay, I got calls from people who simply didn't qualify for EI or whose benefits were running out, and to think that the other party was saying it was too generous.... These were people who literally couldn't afford to buy groceries, to pay their rent and so on. I think we can all agree that the CERB was a lifeline for really, as you say, eight million Canadians.
Minister, I want to switch to the CRB. When the CERB ended, a large portion of recipients were transitioned to a simplified EI program. Some were ineligible for EI benefits, and again all of us had those calls at the office.
As a result, our government created three Canada recovery benefits to support Canadians during the transition. How many Canadians in total have been helped by the recovery benefits?
View Carla Qualtrough Profile
Lib. (BC)
Oh my goodness. The CRB is at about 1.75 million Canadians as of February 27. The sickness benefit is at around 411,000. The caregiving benefit is at around 343,000. It's a significant number. That's not including the millions on EI.
View Wayne Long Profile
Lib. (NB)
Right, and I think we can all realize what would have happened without the extension of those benefits. We all got calls. I got calls into my office from people who were certainly desperate. Their EI was running out. They didn't have other options.
Again, these benefits were a lifeline to Canadians. That's what a good government does. A good government delivers benefits that Canadians need, certainly in times of crisis, so thank you for that, Minister, and—
View Carla Qualtrough Profile
Lib. (BC)
Sure.
This bill would make important amendments to the Employment Insurance Act, the Canada Recovery Benefits Act and the Customs Act that would allow us to continue to support Canadians.
Last summer and fall, we laid out a plan to continue to support Canada's workforce through the ongoing pandemic. We transitioned from the CERB to a simplified employment insurance program and introduced a suite of recovery benefits to provide income support to workers whose employment continues to be impacted by COVID-19.
At that time, we said we'd monitor labour market changes and make adjustments as needed. We've done that and are following through on our commitment to continue providing certainty for workers.
The bill being proposed is to increase the maximum number of available weeks of EI regular benefits and make sure that Canadians don't face a gap in receiving the support they continue to need right now.
If this bill does not get passed and receive royal assent before the end of March, tens of thousands of Canadians will be notified as early as March 26 that they have exhausted their EI regular benefits, so we need to get this done.
Parallel to this bill, we are making increases, through regulations, to the number of weeks available under the Canada recovery benefit, the Canada recovery caregiving benefit and the Canada recovery sickness benefit, and to secure job-protected leave under the Canada Labour Code.
Let me now discuss the amendments to the EI Act in more detail.
Bill C-24 amends the Employment Insurance Act to increase the number of weeks that workers can claim in EI regular benefits. Workers will now be eligible for up to a maximum of 50 weeks for claims established between September 27, 2020, and September 25, 2021.
It would enable millions of Canadians to continue to receive support while still having access to the essential employment insurance system resources and tools for them to be able to re-enter the labour market.
Such resources include working while on claim, where workers can keep part of their EI benefits and all earnings from their job. The work-sharing program allows companies to redistribute available work through a voluntary reduction in hours worked by all employees within one or more work units. It also allows employers to retain a full workforce on a reduced workweek, rather than laying off part of their workforce. This keeps workers on the job, which is key to Canada's successful economic recovery.
Our country's labour market is also changing rapidly because of the pandemic. This new reality requires additional skills and training for more workers. It is another good reason to broaden access to the employment insurance system. Out-of-work Canadians would have access to courses and training programs while receiving employment insurance benefits.
We know that Canadians want to work. Evidence from last year's labour market data clearly shows that when there is work available, Canadians take these jobs.
I also highlight that, as part of this legislation, self-employed workers participating in the EI program would be able to temporarily access EI special benefits with an earning threshold of $5,000, compared to the previously set threshold of $7,555. Self-employed workers have also been hard-hit by the pandemic and need this extra support.
I'd also like to speak about travellers returning to Canada and their access to Canada recovery benefits. We have also said clearly that these benefits, and in particular the Canada Recovery Sickness Benefit, were established to allow Canadians to have paid sick leave when it is not available from their employer.
The amendments to the Canada Recovery Benefits Act and the Customs Act that are proposed in Bill C-24 would make Canadians who travel for non-essential reasons ineligible for recovery benefits. However, Canadians who travel internationally for medical treatment that is considered by a medical practitioner to be necessary, or to accompany such a person as an attendant, will remain eligible for recovery benefits, as will Canadians who travel internationally for essential reasons and must self-isolate upon their return to Canada.
The application of these eligibility rules will be retroactive to October 2, 2020, which is when the recovery benefits were introduced after the Canada Recovery Benefits Act received royal assent.
As I mentioned earlier, we are still in a crisis. We'll continue to monitor the labour market and will be there for workers during this difficult period.
Let me close by restating the importance of passing this legislation in a timely manner. The bill has been in the hands of all members since February 23. All parties have said the bill is straightforward and necessary. I urge all parties to move this bill along as quickly as possible. Let's listen to workers who are relying on EI to pay their bills and support their families.
Thank you.
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-02-23 15:32
Thank you very much and good afternoon, everyone.
Thank you for the invitation to appear before the committee today as you continue your review of the employment insurance program.
With me is my colleague, Annette Butikofer, who's assistant commissioner and chief information officer of the information technology branch at the Canada Revenue Agency. In my brief remarks, I'd like to provide the committee with a short description of the CRA's responsibility with regard to delivering benefits to Canadians.
First and foremost, the CRA seeks to ensure that Canadians obtain benefit payments in a timely manner and have avenues of redress when they disagree with a decision on their benefit eligibility. The CRA administers the Canada child benefit, the goods and services tax, the harmonized sales tax credit, the children's special allowances program, the disability tax credit, the Canada workers benefit and provincial and territorial programs.
Indeed, the CRA uses its federal tax delivery infrastructure to administer 181 services, ongoing benefits and one-time payment programs on behalf of the provinces and territories. These income-tested benefits and other services contribute directly to the economic and social well-being of Canadians by supporting families and children.
I should note that while the CRA is the administrator of many other benefits, the CRA has no direct involvement in the administration of the EI program or the EI system.
As the committee may know, the CRA's role in delivering benefits evolved as the COVID-19 pandemic hit, at the peak of the 2019 tax season. The CRA shifted gears to focus on the administration and issuance of emergency benefits to Canadians impacted by the pandemic. The Canada emergency response benefit was launched in April 2020 and was jointly administered by the CRA and Service Canada. Given the speed required to deliver the CERB payments to Canadians—within some three weeks—and the initial 16-week duration, the CRA leveraged pre-existing information technology services to ensure that payments would be issued on a timely basis.
As of February 14, 2021, the CRA had processed 22,652,229 CERB applications, representing $45.3 billion paid to Canadians. The CERB was followed by the Canada emergency student benefit, or CESB, in 2020, which leveraged the program and system design of CERB. Through the course of administering the CESB, the CRA has processed 2,140,226 applications, representing $2.94 billion paid to Canadians.
As part of the transition from CERB, since the fall of 2020, the CRA now administers three new COVID benefits: the Canada recovery benefit, the Canada recovery caregiver benefit and the Canada recovery sickness benefit.
As of February 13, 2021, the CRA had processed and paid out to Canadians, for the CRB or recovery benefit, 9,864,423 applications, representing $9.86 billion. For the CRCB—the caregiver benefit—we paid out 2,840,045 applications, representing $1.42 billion, and for the CRSB there have been 675,473 applications, representing $337.74 million.
In addition, the CRA also administers the Canada emergency wage subsidy and the Canada emergency rent subsidy programs, which were launched to assist businesses during the pandemic. As of February 14, 2021, 2,619,890 wage subsidy applications had been approved, with a $65.56-billion value of subsidies approved. As of February 7, 2021, 347,480 rent subsidy applications had been approved, with $1.29 billion in payments of subsidies approved.
In conclusion, while the CRA has no direct involvement in the administration of the EI program or systems, as those are the responsibility of ESDC, the CRA plays an important role in delivering many other benefits on which Canadians rely.
Thank you again for the invitation to appear, Mr. Chair. Ms. Butikofer and I would be happy to answer any questions the committee may have.
View Philip Lawrence Profile
CPC (ON)
Thank you very much. You've said everything I need.
I would like to jump now to the administering of the CERB claims. Could you give us an idea about what the rate of decline is for the CERB and/or the CRB? How many applications are declined for substantive or technical...if you have that degree of information?
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-02-23 15:45
It's difficult to say. It changes.
When we launched the CERB, we declined a very small number of the applications. When the program was up and running, there weren't as many upfront validations and we didn't have 2019 income at that time. Then we moved to the CRB and the new measures. We put in place more upfront validation. We're able to look at 2019 income. We're able to look at a broader range of things.
I don't have a precise number, but my guess would be a little bit under 5%. I can certainly get that for you.
View Philip Lawrence Profile
CPC (ON)
Perfect. I was just going to ask that. It would be great if you could get that to the committee. Thank you.
One of the reasons, I believe, that CRBs were declined—it was an issue for a lot of Canadians from coast to coast to coast—was that people were applying for EI, but were not eligible. Then they were attempting to apply for the CRB, but they were declined due to a technical error because the software between the EI system and the CRA system would not work. Has that been resolved now?
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-02-23 15:47
I would say that is a rare occurrence relative to the total number of people applying.
Generally speaking, if you've applied for EI and you're still EI eligible, the legislation, in fact, says you're not eligible for the CRB. You need to first go to EI. In the vast majority of cases, the system works exactly as it should.
There are rare situations, for example, when somebody is—
View Philip Lawrence Profile
CPC (ON)
With respect—and I don't mean to be rude but I have limited time—I have had literally hundreds of people. That might not seem a huge number, but to the family I delivered food to, that was a big deal.
Is that issue resolved?
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-02-23 15:48
We set up a new system. When individuals in those rare situations run into that problem, it can be resolved. Is it 100% resolved? No, people will need to call when they're in that rare situation. As you said it's hundreds—
View Philip Lawrence Profile
CPC (ON)
I understand that once you've been denied.... Some of them are legitimate. I've talked to some folks who have been denied.
We're putting people through the notice of objection system, which is for your taxes and which can take up to six months or a year. These are people who are struck down by the pandemic, having a horrible time, perhaps the worst time of their lives, and now they may have a rightful claim, but they won't get their day in court for literally six months, if not years. Is that true?
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-02-23 15:48
I have to look into that. Generally that is not the procedure. If individuals are blocked for whatever reason, for example, we don't have any income on their files, or we have income and it's too low, or they don't meet the age, they are entitled to call us. If they can put forth a reasonable case, we do that right over the phone and there's no need to go to an objection.
View Louise Chabot Profile
BQ (QC)
I'm talking about people having to wait seven or eight weeks, not seven or eight days. These were people who were out of work and had no money coming in, and they applied for the CRB, which your agency clearly administers. They waited seven or eight weeks. Are those wait times a thing of the past now that the measures have been extended?
Not only did I want to ask that question, but I also wanted to point out how unbearably stressful it was for people to wait that long.
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-02-23 16:00
I'm not aware of any of those types of waiting periods. In our system, the way it works is that, generally, if you apply and we deem you as qualified, we deliver that in three to five days. There are situations where individuals are deemed to not be qualified. They have to call, and they may have to provide some additional documentation. There can be delays in those cases.
Are those acceptable wait times, whether it's through CRA or whether it's ESDC? Absolutely not. As those things happen and evolve, we try to quickly reorganize ourselves and try to deal with those types of situations as quickly as possible. To the extent that there are delays, it's always a tiny share, but they're important files. We try to do what we can to speed that up as quickly as possible.
View Leah Gazan Profile
NDP (MB)
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
My first questions are for either Annette Butikofer or Frank Vermaeten.
From the transition between the CERB to the new COVID-19 support benefit, what is the percentage of Canadians who were eligible for CERB who are no longer eligible for the new support benefits?
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-02-23 16:05
I'm happy to answer. I don't have a statistic on that. The eligibility rules did not change significantly, going from CERB to the CRB. Of course, there are the three benefits: the CRB, the sickness benefit and the caregiver benefit.
Those rules changed. It was a slightly different program, but generally speaking, there was not a big change in eligibility.
View Raquel Dancho Profile
CPC (MB)
Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
My first few questions are for Mr. Vermaeten.
It was touched on a little bit in the previous panel by my colleague, but I want to talk to you about the CRB-EI issue. Just for folks who aren't aware, there seems to be a bit of an issue. You mentioned it's with only a few people, but for folks who aren't eligible for EI to actually get the CRB, there seems to be some sort of tech issue at CRA that allows them to roll into that program. I think you were addressing this in the last round, and said that there weren't that many people but it was happening.
Do you have a concrete idea of how many people are impacted by this sort of technical issue?
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-02-23 16:11
I can certainly get you a number. It's quite small. My guess would be it's more in the low thousands when one takes the multi-million number of people who are applying. I can certainly give you a simple example.
View Raquel Dancho Profile
CPC (MB)
That's all right. I have a couple of examples that have come to my attention, which is why I'm asking someone to see when the issue will be addressed. You have a timeline. Are you currently working on addressing this problem?
Frank Vermaeten
View Frank Vermaeten Profile
Frank Vermaeten
2021-02-23 16:12
We absolutely are working on it. We created a task force and we created a special unit with ESDC to be able to deal with those questions, so if people are denied the CRB they can call ESDC and essentially unblock that piece of data that prevents them from being able to get the CRB.
View Wayne Long Profile
Lib. (NB)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, colleagues.
Ms. Mahboubi and Mr. Corak, thank you for your presentations. They were very interesting.
Ms. Mahboubi, I want to talk to you first, with respect to CERB. We all know that CERB was created to give income in the quickest way possible to those who lost employment during the pandemic. I think we can all look back really remarkably with a sense of pride at how quickly it did get out to so many people.
As CERB ended, obviously there was a transition to the simplified EI program for those who were eligible, and then obviously, the CRB.
In your opinion, what would have been the consequence of continuing the CERB and not relaunching a simplified and more generous EI program?
Parisa Mahboubi
View Parisa Mahboubi Profile
Parisa Mahboubi
2021-02-23 16:53
Thank you for the opportunity to speak about that topic.
The C.D. Howe Institute published, through commentaries and intelligence memos, and talked about why it was really important to have that transition, or if we wanted to extend CERB, we needed to reform that program, because when CERB was created and introduced, the purpose was to keep people inside their houses. The purpose was for people to stop working, stop doing other things and stay at home to keep people safe.
However, as the economy and businesses started to reopen, there was a problem with CERB. It didn't create an incentive to look for employment, because as I mentioned, the majority of those individuals who lost their jobs and had seen a reduction in hours were mostly low-income individuals. Therefore, CERB was a program that was quite desirable for these individuals.
In receiving CERB without being required to look for employment, of course, it's going to create some challenges for businesses to find the right individuals to work for them. There was no requirement to look for employment.
If you wanted to stick to CERB, it had to be reformed. It needed to take into consideration several elements of the EI program. Of course, moving to the EI program was the better option when the government was ready to shift that big portion of individuals into the program.
View Raquel Dancho Profile
CPC (MB)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Long, for your opening remarks. We greatly appreciate your being here with us today.
I'm wondering if your department is considering an extension of the CRB, given the substantial number of Canadians who are about to reach their 26-week maximum benefit next month.
Andrew Brown
View Andrew Brown Profile
Andrew Brown
2021-02-18 15:42
Thank you, Benoît.
Thanks for the question.
I'm Andrew Brown, the director general for employment insurance policy. That also includes policy for the Canada recovery benefit.
What I can tell you right now is that we are monitoring very closely the use of those benefits. We know that, since the end of September, when people moved from the CERB to EI regular benefits and others would have started to receive the Canada recovery benefit, they could use up the 26 weeks of benefits available as early as the end of March, so we are continuing to monitor use.
View Raquel Dancho Profile
CPC (MB)
Are you looking to extend it? That must be something you're modelling.
Andrew Brown
View Andrew Brown Profile
Andrew Brown
2021-02-18 15:43
We're trying to understand the number of people who could be running out of benefits so that we could provide options.
View Raquel Dancho Profile
CPC (MB)
We know the Canadian Labour Congress has come out today suggesting or asking that you extend it, so I would be surprised if you weren't modelling it already.
Andrew Brown
View Andrew Brown Profile
Andrew Brown
2021-02-18 15:43
Exactly, we're looking at the numbers, trying to understand how many people may run out at the end of March.
View Raquel Dancho Profile
CPC (MB)
How much has been spent to date on the three CRB benefits?
Andrew Brown
View Andrew Brown Profile
Andrew Brown
2021-02-18 15:44
In terms of the three benefits to date, we've seen now more than 1.7 million Canadians make use of the Canada recovery benefit, about 300,000 who have made use of the recovery sickness benefit, and I believe a slightly higher number—not in front of me right now—who have used the Canada recovery caregiving benefit.
View Raquel Dancho Profile
CPC (MB)
Do you know how much that has cost? What has been the total payout?
Andrew Brown
View Andrew Brown Profile
Andrew Brown
2021-02-18 15:44
I should be able to get that within a few minutes. I don't have that right in front of me at the moment.
View Raquel Dancho Profile
CPC (MB)
We can come back to it at the end.
I know that the CERB, as mentioned by Mr. Long and elsewhere, is not coming out of EI and that it's going to come out of general revenue or deficit finance. Is it the same plan for CRB, or will the CRB come out of the EI account?
Andrew Brown
View Andrew Brown Profile
Andrew Brown
2021-02-18 15:44
The CRB is not coming from the EI account. It is coming from the consolidated revenue fund.
I actually have the numbers here now.
Andrew Brown
View Andrew Brown Profile
Andrew Brown
2021-02-18 15:45
In terms of the Canada recovery benefit, it's now just under $10 billion, $9.6 billion to date. In terms of the Canada recovery sickness benefit, it's $328 million to date, and in terms of the Canada recovery caregiving benefit, it's $1.34 billion to date. Those are the latest figures we have available.
Pascale St-Onge
View Pascale St-Onge Profile
Pascale St-Onge
2020-11-23 11:07
Thank you.
Tens of thousands of people work on contract or freelance and do not have access to the Canadian social safety net because of their status as self-employed workers. They therefore must not be let down, as both the cultural and media communities would suffer considerably. It is urgent.
Our organizations want to work with governments and partners on long-term structural solutions, because the crisis has highlighted the need to rethink some aspects of our social safety net, such as a complete overhaul of the EI system and the creation of meaningful comprehensive and structuring assistance plans for the sector. As you know, in Quebec, venues will be closed until January 11. So it will soon be 10 months without work.
Our sector is among those in culture and communications that are not experiencing as strong a recovery as other sectors, and the people we represent find themselves in an extremely precarious situation. We were very enthusiastic about the announcement of the Canada recovery benefit (CRB) but some problems remain. The CRB is valid for 26 weeks.
One problem is that there is no mechanism in place to phase out the CRB. This means that contract workers receive either all or none of the CRB. The criterion of 50%  income reduction on average weekly earnings makes it very difficult for many self-employed individuals with an average annual income of about $14,000 to access the CRB. If they earn more than $138 per week, they have no access to the CRB at all, which is extremely problematic.
In addition, there are many administrative delays, and responses to applications are slow. There is a great deal of concern about the files still under review. We are working in a significantly shaken sector, and the people we represent are experiencing a lot of anxiety because of this situation.
I will let my colleague take over.
View Tim Louis Profile
Lib. (ON)
I appreciate that.
In my time remaining, I did want to say that I've hosted a lot of round tables—as a number of people here have done—with artists here in Kitchener-Conestoga, from larger organizations to small independent artists. In typical artist fashion, even though they're struggling, they're always thinking of others. Something that came up a lot in our round tables was our youth and particularly their mental health, and also how we can keep our youth transitioning into arts and possibly work on sustainable careers when times are tough.
It's basic, but can you explain the importance of the wage subsidy and CERB, now the CRB, and how that can support our artists financially so they can help that next generation to become artists and also support them in the mental health thing? Arts are so important to our young artists.
View Steven Guilbeault Profile
Lib. (QC)
I think when history books are written about how Canada responded to COVID-19, they will talk about CERB, and they will talk about how, if you look at our G7 partners, Canada has been, if not the most generous country...to support Canadians, not just artists, but certainly artists.... If you put together all of the measures that we've taken, either directly or indirectly, for the arts and culture sector, the effort by the Canadian federal government has been above $4 billion of support for the sector—and counting, because we are announcing new measures.
I was talking earlier about the fact that we supported the ecosystem, but we also wanted to support people, and that's what we did with CERB and with the wage subsidy, to ensure that those who want to stay in the sector can do that and are supported in these difficult times.
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