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Coralee McGuire-Cyrette
View Coralee McGuire-Cyrette Profile
Coralee McGuire-Cyrette
2021-06-17 11:07
Good morning, Chair and committee members. My name is Coralee McGuire-Cyrette. I am the executive director of the Ontario Native Women's Association.
This year marks ONWA's 50th anniversary, making us the oldest and largest indigenous women's organization in Canada. With a mandate to address violence against indigenous women, ONWA works on such key safety issues as human trafficking, missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, and child welfare.
Before I begin, I want to acknowledge the bravery, wisdom and leadership of all survivors on this issue, as they are the experts. ONWA has been working with survivors for many years. This experience forms the basis of our recommendations. Survivors and knowledge-holders have reminded us that motherhood is the oldest profession, and this is what we must reclaim in our work.
I'll be framing my presentation today based on three key points. While I do not have the time today to explore them in depth, it's imperative that they are kept in mind while we continue.
First, in 2019 the United Nations released guidelines on combatting child sexual exploitation. They state that a child under the age of 18 can never consent to any form of their own sale, sexual exploitation or sexual abuse, and any presumed consent of a child to exploitative or sexual acts should be considered “null and void”. Additionally, article 35 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child states that the government has a responsibility to ensure that children are not abducted, sold or trafficked. ONWA advocates that both principles must, without exception, be adhered to.
Second, the impact of colonization has caused the fabric of strong, self-sustaining indigenous communities to be eroded. Indigenous trauma, together with more recent constructs, has fostered conditions of normalized violence towards indigenous women and girls. Direct links have been drawn between the rates of violence that indigenous women continue to face today and the paternalistic policies emerging from colonization. This systemic discrimination has not been addressed adequately in Canada. This leaves indigenous women and girls at a heightened vulnerability to experience victimization, including human trafficking.
Article 18 of the UNDRIP affirms that “Indigenous peoples have the right to participate in decision-making in matters...through representatives chosen by themselves” and to “maintain and develop their own...institutions”. From this, ONWA asserts that it is fundamental that indigenous women have the capacity to participate in a wide range of leadership efforts to support our communities, including leading the prevention, intervention and response to issues that we face.
Third, the COVID-19 pandemic has deepened pre-existing inequalities. By virtue of our gender and our race, we are, as indigenous women and girls, disproportionately experiencing the consequences of COVID-19. This results in an increased risk of indigenous women and girls being targeted for human trafficking, as well as worsening the situation for those already in trafficking situations. The pandemic has underscored that solutions to human trafficking must be part of an equitable COVID-19 recovery plan.
In 2017 we engaged with over 3,360 community members and service providers, including 250 indigenous human trafficking survivors. The storytelling that was heard resulted in the creation of a strategy, titled “Journey to Safe Spaces”, to address this issue.
Survivors taught us what trauma-informed care is and what systems need to be changed. Their intentions were clear. They wanted to protect other indigenous women and girls from trafficking. We also learned that there are often systemic failures that subject indigenous women and children to risk. The relationship between child welfare and human trafficking is complex. In our engagements with survivors, we heard many stories. In some instances, the abuse was not identified by any service provider, and children experienced horrific childhood exploitation. In other instances, sexual exploitation began after child welfare became involved.
Children must be protected from exploitation—period. This will involve systems working together to protect and ensure the safety of our children.
Our report provides clear recommendations for change. All changes must be underpinned by the fact that indigenous women have human rights. The recommendations from survivors provided the basis for our courage for change program, which provides the only long-term, intensive case management and support. Our program supported 176 indigenous women and girls to safely exit human trafficking from 2017 to 2019. Last year, in 2020, we saw a 37% increase in exits.
Before I conclude, I'll highlight five essential recommendations, many of which can be found in ONWA's “Reconciliation with Indigenous Women”. In this report, we recommend actions that are very specific and targeted to end human trafficking while supporting survivors. The missing and murdered indigenous women and girls national action plan does not include our report's recommendations sufficiently.
First, collaborative mechanisms must be put in place to allow for provincial and national data collection on the human trafficking of indigenous women that protects the privacy of survivors who access services with data collected by the legal reform.
Second, sustainable programs and services that address human trafficking survivor-specific needs, including wraparound support and 24-hour services for human trafficking in cities all across the country, must be implemented.
Third, specialized trauma-informed services for survivors who appear in court must be created. When charges are laid against a trafficker, survivor safety must be prioritized throughout the legal process.
Fourth, the federal government needs to clear the records of survivors of any criminal offences for prostitution-related offences and with debt forgiveness for student loans.
Fifth, additional funding is urgently required to address human trafficking well beyond the provision of funds for education-related activities only. This is to include comprehensive human trafficking exiting supports, such as mental health and addictions services, housing, specialized long-term healing and supportive services.
In closing, I encourage the committee to review our “Reconciliation with Indigenous Women” report and our “Journey to Safe Spaces” strategy in full, as they provide a road map to keep indigenous women and girls safe from human trafficking and to the supports needed to rebuild their lives.
Meegwetch.
Garrison Settee
View Garrison Settee Profile
Garrison Settee
2021-06-15 11:17
Thank you for the opportunity to present to the standing committee.
I wish to acknowledge the land of the people of Treaty 1 and Treaty 5 territory.
My name is Garrison Settee. I am the grand chief of the Manitoba Keewatinowi Okimakanak.
As the grand chief, I am committed to working towards ending all forms of gender and race-based violence that impacts indigenous women and girls, and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people. We must look at the root causes of sex trafficking through the impacts of colonization.
The events that have occurred over the last two weeks have dominated headlines on the impacts of past, present and ongoing colonial violence in Canada against indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ people.
On May 27, the remains of 215 children at the former Kamloops Indian Residential School were announced. On June 3, 2021, the final report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, and the national action plan for ending violence against 2SLGBTQQIA+ people, along with other companion documents, were released.
I want to highlight some of the realities faced in the north, according to [Technical difficulty—Editor] 2017, rates of violent crimes against young women and girls are five to six times higher than those living in southern Manitoba, and in northern Manitoba it's worse. Predators are targeting indigenous girls at bus depots and airports to take advantage of their vulnerability during periods of transition, such as coming out of child and family services care to obtain medical care or educational opportunities not available in their own home community. MKO has observed that this also occurs when entire communities are evacuated to an urban centre due to fires and floods.
There exists an important opportunity to prevent violence and trafficking by intervening at these points of transition. Winnipeg, along with Regina and Saskatoon, are known as a city triangle where victims are shipped between these cities and different provinces. For instance, Thompson is the largest city in northern Manitoba. It has the highest number of missing youth in the province. It has been identified as a critical point of intervention to reduce the likelihood of their moving or being trafficked to Winnipeg.
MKO is concerned that there is insufficient policing and resources to combat human trafficking in northern and remote communities. Policing agencies across all jurisdictions are not mandated to report to the Human Trafficking National Coordination Centre. This results in the denial of the basic human and indigenous rights as related to culture, health, security and justice.
Education and employment gaps are major contributing factors to indigenous women's economic marginalization, which in turn makes them more dependent on others, leaving them more vulnerable to violence and less able to leave violent circumstances.
There is a need for safe housing, including increased housing on reserve and access to shelters; for culturally responsible health care services; and for laws, policies and practices of the Canadian state to adequately recognize, respect and make space for the inherent right of indigenous self-governance and self-determination.
Hilda.
View Gary Vidal Profile
CPC (SK)
I'm sorry. I have so much that I want to do here quickly.
You spoke about child and family services. I think you referenced a couple of first nations that have completed that journey or are moving down that journey of taking over their responsibilities. I've asked you this question before, and maybe that is a simple answer.
Are there so far just two first nations that have indicated their desire to do that? Just where are we at in that process? Based on some of the events of the last few weeks here, I think it's so very important that we deal with some of the current issues as well, and having first nations control of some of their child and family services is important. I'm just wondering how fast that is happening.
If you could briefly respond, I want to get into one more detailed question, if I could.
View Marc Miller Profile
Lib. (QC)
Yes, and I'll be quite frank: It's slow. Certainly, the pandemic, where people have focused on their health and safety of the communities has resulted in a slowdown. This is a revolutionary piece of legislation that lifts up inherent rights of indigenous peoples. We have dozens and dozens of communities across Canada that have expressed interest. There was about $500 million or more in the fall economic statement that was dedicated to working on capacity, to putting those laws forward and entrenching them.
We want to make sure that we have proper coordination agreements in place with provinces that hold the bulk of that responsibility. There's a relationship aspect there with the provinces, including your home province, that we can't discount in all of this, but there are many more.... There are some that have lifted up their own legislation and have said, “We're not necessarily interested in Bill C-92, but this is how we're going to protect our children.” That has some validity as well.
We're very cautious in those estimates, but I would say for the benefit of this committee that there are dozens and dozens that have done good work along the way. There are some difficult challenges ahead in and around capacity, so I won't hide that from you, but it is a long road, and it is part and parcel of everything we've seen in the last week.
View Adam van Koeverden Profile
Lib. (ON)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I will have two questions for the minister. I would start by asking him to answer the first one, and to leave enough time to answer the second.
First, in January 2020, An Act respecting First Nations, Inuit and Métis children, youth and families came into effect to affirm the jurisdiction of indigenous communities over child and family services. How will this act support the well-being of indigenous children and families and provide culturally relevant care to children? Could you please provide an update on the implementation of this act?
View Marc Miller Profile
Lib. (QC)
What we've seen throughout, and particularly what has become quite poignant and top of mind over the last week, is that Canada and the provinces have been administering a broken system for some time. We can talk about compensation, which is very important. When we talk about transformation, that's when we have to talk about the legislation that was passed just before the prior election. It's shifting, in the spirit of self-determination, a system that was focused on prevention, and not culturally appropriate, to one that is...or rather, from intervention to prevention. When it's embodied and ensconced in the language of self-determination, it is an effort to lift up communities in how they protect their own—again, something we've taken for granted.
It is long work. It requires an intense amount of consultation. There was about $500 million in the fall economic statement dedicated to building capacity. That's something that will be deployed over five years. Additional investments will be required as communities bring home their children and pass their legislation to lift it up.
When I said to Gary that it was slow, an important principle was embodied when the law came into force—the minimum standard of the child. It is a signal to all of Canada and to courts that they can no longer sanction practices that removed disproportionately indigenous children from their families based on such issues as poverty. That is still the challenge for every single government in the future, to keep combatting a poverty discrimination that is the legacy of our colonial past.
Leroy Daniel Denny
View Leroy Daniel Denny Profile
Leroy Daniel Denny
2021-05-25 11:18
Good morning. It is my pleasure to join you here from the Eskasoni First Nation community. It's a sunny day here in the beautiful territory of Unama'ki, located on the east coast of Canada. Eskasoni is the largest Mi'kmaq community, with a population of almost 4,700 people.
My name is Chief Leroy Denny, and I am the chief of the community of Eskasoni. I thank you for the invitation to appear before your committee on the motion to study enforcement on first nation reserves.
I was born and raised in Eskasoni, here in my community. My grandfather was also chief of my community. Also, my godfather was a Vietnam vet and a police chief for Eskasoni for many years, and one of the key people who started a police department, the Unama'ki Tribal Police, which I'm going to talk about.
I'm here to address the current policing practices and enforcement in first nation communities.
There is no denying that the impacts of colonialism continue to reverberate in all of our indigenous communities across the country. The costs of policing on reserve remain a source of conflict requiring resolution. Canada's position to hold policing on reserve as a joint responsibility with the provinces has created a jurisdictional confusion that results in inefficient and under-resourced policing, and our community members are the ones who suffer at the end of the day. A special constable program continued on the first nation communities throughout Nova Scotia in the seventies, a program that was underfunded and under-resourced. Since this time, because of these issues, the Mi'kmaq lobby for control over policing in their communities.
As a response to the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and the Donald Marshall inquiry, the Unama'ki Tribal Police was created in 1994, under the umbrella of the federal first nation policing policy, to provide policing to all five Mi'kmaq communities in Cape Breton, which are Eskasoni, Membertou, Potlotek, Wh'koqma'q and Wagmatcook. I was formerly a employee as a jail guard, and also as a part-time dispatcher at the time, which was one of my first jobs when I was really young.
Attaining control over our policing was a key component in achieving self-determination and enhancing control of enforcement in our communities. This was a decolonized method of offering police services. In it, cultural methodology was used and implemented in community police methods to resolve problems and promote community healing and trust, using our language. In the late nineties and early 2000s, this essential program was defunded, and the RCMP established the Community Aboriginal Diversity Policing Service to serve first nation communities.
Presently, we have RCMP serving our community. I commend their efforts in policing our community, because we have some Mi'kmaq police who are on the force. My own brother served both in the Unama'ki police and the RCMP for our community, and he retired a couple of months ago.
However, as a leader and a community member, I cannot help but see the injustices that we continue to face, not only in becoming self-determined but also in our health and safety on reserve.
When the global pandemic hit last year, there was a directive that the police in indigenous communities and the judiciary would assist indigenous communities to enforce their COVID bylaws, which are the lockdowns we have. However, the reality was not this. What happened was that they didn't respect our bylaws. We had our own curfews, our own lockdowns, and they weren't respected. We had our own restrictions, and we had issues with the police. I ended up calling my MP, to the top office, to make sure our bylaws were respected, but it was very difficult for us for our security and to make sure that the lockdown to keep COVID out was respected.
This issue also hinders our ability to enforce laws made on reserve. Bylaws are not respected and are not honoured by current policing authorities. It makes becoming self-determined within our communities difficult. It was very difficult.
Before I end my submission to the committee today, I would like to discuss the issue of health and safety on reserve in policing. Due to personal experience, I can attest to the issue we face regarding this issue.
At the end of February, February 28, one of my directors, the CEO for Crane Cove Seafoods, was shot. He's my neighbour and also my family member, my first cousin. He was shot next door. To this day, we don't know who shot him.
The first person he called was me because I was next door, down the road. He called me, and I called 911. There was a sound of distress on the phone. He had been shot; there had been two shots.
My family and I all heard gunshots here. I was on 911 for at least a good four minutes. When I got there, 911 told me not to go in, but my family member was in distress, so I had to go in. It had already been 10 minutes, and we were still waiting for the police and still waiting for the paramedics. I had to go in. God knows, I didn't know if there was a shooter there, but I had to sacrifice my own life to save my family member.
After 20 minutes, I had to take him to my vehicle and drive him to the ambulance station. There were no police yet. To this day, I don't know why. I'm still dealing with the trauma. There was a lot of blood I had to deal with. Luckily, he survived. He's recovering.
After 30 minutes—I counted the minutes when I made my statement—the police ended up going to the house to start an investigation. It was poorly done.
He relied on the police and the paramedics. He relied on me. I was the first person to get there. I took him to the ambulance. That shouldn't be. Community members shouldn't be doing that, saving lives in the line of fire. It's the police. We rely on our police and we trust them. That's in the agreements. I shouldn't be doing it; it should be them. I still have a lot of questions about that, and it's not the end of it.
I'll end right there.
View Gary Vidal Profile
CPC (SK)
Thank you. By participating here and sharing your experience, you can help many others, so I'm going to encourage you to keep speaking.
The chair is going to cut me off very soon, so I'm going to ask a very quick question.
We've talked a lot about jurisdictional challenges as we talk about building relationships and finding solutions. You seem to have found your way through some of that with the partnerships with the territory and the federal government and your own self-governing urban first nation. Can you quickly talk about some of the key things you learned about overcoming the jurisdictional issue and building those partnerships with the many people you talked about?
Doris Bill
View Doris Bill Profile
Doris Bill
2021-05-25 11:54
It starts by building those partnerships and really creating space for the program.
For example, our traditional territory spreads throughout the city, and we talked with and sat down with the City of Whitehorse. We created an intergovernmental forum and we meet formally with the City of Whitehorse. We also sit down with the Yukon government. We have those conversations and work out any problems or issues that we have. Because of our successes here in Whitehorse, we have the City of Whitehorse, the larger City of Whitehorse, asking us to extend our program within the city, and I—
View Rachel Blaney Profile
NDP (BC)
Thank you, Chair. I also had a weird Internet moment there as well, so maybe it was something happening in the system.
My first question is to Mr. Louie.
I really appreciate your testimony. You talked about this as a “crisis in enforcement”. I think that's what you said in your initial statement. One aspect that concerns you is that the colonial Indian Act seems to be what is being promoted as the only thing that works. Of course, that undermines self-determination, aboriginal rights and title and so forth.
You said also that we need answers instead of more questions and that there are some good pilot projects that are happening. I'm wondering if you could tell us anything about good steps forward that we should hear about and that we could add to our recommendations in this report.
Robert Louie
View Robert Louie Profile
Robert Louie
2021-05-25 12:11
Thank you very much, Ms. Blaney, for your question.
We do have some things happening that are positive. I think the positiveness is the willingness by provinces, territorial governments and the federal government to listen and to want to work on some solutions. We've started that situation with MKO in Manitoba. The attorney general and those who are in charge of the various ministries have been active.
We have a pilot project taking place in Saskatchewan with the Muskoday community and Whitecap. They are working now with the Saskatchewan attorney general's office to look at how there can be better enforcement. We are hoping that these discussions will lead to an understanding by the Province of Saskatchewan that it will recognize first nations land code laws and that enforcement is a joint process, and that there needs to be collaboration and support of that.
If we can do that there, we can do it in Manitoba, in Alberta, in British Columbia, right through the country. I think this is where we need to be. The discussions are happening right now. This committee and the recommendations you make are hopefully going to be pressing. The recommendations will say, and hopefully support, that this has to be done now. We cannot afford to wait. The laws that are taking place are being done now. We have laws in force. We are a government. We are recognized as a government. We have the authorities and the powers of government, yet the laws are not being recognized and enforced. We cannot wait for this.
We have matrimonial issues. We have trespass issues. We have pollution, contaminants, and matters of such great importance that they have to be dealt with now. The more that this is understood, the more the collaboration that takes place, and the more direction that this committee can give towards the various provinces—to all the ministries—that this is an important matter, the more quickly we're going to find solutions.
I much appreciate your question and this committee's work. Thank you.
View Marcus Powlowski Profile
Lib. (ON)
This has been a very interesting study. We've seen this unanimity among chiefs from across Canada, who agree that it's been very difficult or impossible to enforce bylaws related to public health measures and control of COVID. In response, we have seen really a patchwork of approaches, with some chiefs preferring to use bylaws under the Indian Act while others have used the First Nations Land Management Act. PPSC entered into an agreement with some first nations in order to try to enforce the bylaws. Manitoba today has talked about, I believe, a protocol to enforce bylaws under the first nations policing program, and Chief Bill has CSO programs, so we see that every community has a different response. Chief Bill said each community is different, which is true.
I think many would say it's colonialist to impose solutions and that each community has to come up with its own approach to its problems, but I have to ask our witnesses what they say about this: Is it realistic for a community of 300 or 400 people to come up with a system of law enforcement and to come up with a system of dealing with their water problems, their transportation problems, and their housing problems? On this problem of enforcement, of laws in first nations, should there be a global solution for the whole country, or should this be a solution that is particular to each community? That's the first thing.
The second is that I think it was Chief Louie who stated that the use of the Indian Act is offensive. He doesn't want to use that. However, I would suggest that under section 107 of the Indian Act, there is a process to appoint justices of the peace to enforce bylaws made under the Indian Act. Although it may be offensive, I would suggest that the process of law-making is slower than continental drift, so it's going to take a fairly lengthy period of time to change the laws on policing. Wouldn't it be better, perhaps, to use the existing laws and to reinstitute the section 107 court?
I throw that out to all of you. Whoever wants to can start.
Robert Louie
View Robert Louie Profile
Robert Louie
2021-05-25 12:44
Mr. Powlowski, if I may, it's Robert Louie.
I want to just refresh people's thoughts here with regard to the force of law with regard to land codes.
We represent our constituents, who are self-governing. To look at the Indian Act, to rely on the Indian Act.... Any of the sections for governance are quite offensive.
With regard to our land codes and the way the legislation was set up by Parliament to recognize our communities as self-governing first nations, I remind you of subsection 15(1) of the land code, which says that a land code has a force of law, and judicial notice shall be taken of the land code in any proceedings from the date the land code comes into effect. That's very significant.
Also, it's coupled with subsection 20(3) of the land code legislation, which says that it “may provide for enforcement measures, consistent with federal laws...such as the power to inspect, search and seize and to order compulsory sampling, testing and the production of information.” Of course, the justices of the peace section, subsection 24(1), says that we “may appoint justices of the peace to ensure the enforcement of First Nation laws including the adjudication of offences for contraventions of First Nation laws.”
My point is that we have the authority. It was recognized by Parliament. What is lacking is the direction to all of the various ministries and to the provincial governments and so forth that these laws are valid and that they must be recognized, so that when laws are put in place, it's a matter of education and simply, in many respects, informing the policing authorities that they must respect them. There's paramountcy in the federal law, which this now has, so I think this is very important.
For us to rely on something that we do not have to rely on, especially under the Indian Act, is not acceptable to our land code self-governing communities.
View Jamie Schmale Profile
CPC (ON)
Thank you, Chair, and wow, what great testimony today. That is absolutely amazing, and somehow my camera has failed. I'm getting a failure notice. I don't know what happened.
Anyway, I'll continue. Sorry about that. I'm getting a failure notice on my Zoom.
I'm loving the conversation around potential solutions to some of the problems. If I'm hearing correctly, the government has been slow to respond to a lot of the problems. A lot of solutions could be found on the ground or at the community level if government—whether it be Ottawa or your provincial government—just gets out of the way and lets these communities solve things. Getting rid of drug dealers and other methods were mentioned.
I don't even know to whom I should address this question. I'll open it up. How would that work, in terms of the mechanics, if Ottawa or the provinces backed away and said, “Okay, we want to give communities the tools and the funding they need to either run their own police service or enact their own laws,” and then gave them the enforcement power to do that? How would that work with existing Canadian laws?
Again, I don't know who to open it up to, but I'm willing to listen to anyone who wants to answer.
Murray Browne
View Murray Browne Profile
Murray Browne
2021-05-13 11:56
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, and thank you to the honourable member for the question. I know the chiefs and representatives will have many suggestions. It's an interesting question.
The first part is the funding. If we had the funding and if the government stepped out of the way, that would get us a large percentage of the way there. However, we also need the legal authority.
In terms of the legal authority, we either need to find it under the Indian Act, the First Nations Land Management Act, a treaty or other arrangements. We have proposed, and probably Mr. Arcand-Paul and his group have proposed amendments to legislation. The federal offence acts could be amended to include all first nations as governments able to pass and enforce laws. We could get directives to the courts from the chief justices to enforce those laws. There are some technical steps, but as you say, most of what is needed is to provide the funding and step out of the way.
I'll stop there. Thank you for the question.
Reginald Bellerose
View Reginald Bellerose Profile
Reginald Bellerose
2021-05-13 11:57
Yes. It's Reg Bellerose of the Muskowekwan First Nation speaking. Thank you for the question.
I think what we all have to realize is that this has been going on for us since treaty-making in 1874, so if this control comes back to us, it's not going to be perfect on day one. There needs to be a strategy not to say, “Okay, Indians, you have this now, and you've failed in the first day.” There has to be some patience. There has to be a timeline put forward and an understanding that we're not going to be perfect right out of the gate.
Thank you.
Brooks Arcand-Paul
View Brooks Arcand-Paul Profile
Brooks Arcand-Paul
2021-05-13 11:58
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for the question, MP Schmale.
What we're looking at is that the Criminal Code isn't disappearing either. The Criminal Code has equal application on first nations reserves. What we're looking for is getting the ability to deal with our band resources, which are our homes, to be able to try to deal with and curb this activity. Chief Bellerose has the same situation as some of my clients, and certainly my client now has the same issue. It is a concern about having individuals who are effectively breaking the law but are not able to be dealt with appropriately on the nation.
When we're looking at solutions, we have to empower first nations to be able to do these types of things and to recognize that we have our resources, our inventories of band housing, that we have to deal with as well. It's not just that there is absence of the law on first nations; we just need to be empowered to be able to exercise it.
View Jamie Schmale Profile
CPC (ON)
Clearly, the enforcement....
I know that someone else has their hand up, but I just don't want to lose that thought about the enforcement.
I'm sorry that my camera is not on.
Would it potentially work better if more first nations communities investigated and had the funding to do it and the legal authority of potentially having their own police service...? Can you build on that?
Then I'll get to the witnesses who have their hands up on the other question.
Connie Lazore
View Connie Lazore Profile
Connie Lazore
2021-05-13 12:00
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I could probably comment on both questions.
I agree that we all need the funding, but it was stated earlier that all first nations are not at the same level of capacity in their communities and in their districts.
Here in Akwesasne, we've had a police force. We've had a compliance program. We have our own court. We develop our own laws. I don't see Canada as being able to hear and decide on our laws when they're not developed for them to hear. They're developed for our community. They should be heard by our justices in our court and adjudicated in the area that the law was developed for.
In my mind, funding is always going to be an issue until it starts to come to us. For us, we have a plan in place. We want to develop the compliance program—much as the safety officer title that was used earlier—to serve our community. When we can build trust within, these services will go a lot more smoothly, but right now Canada pushes their laws and Canada tells us in our self-government agreement that we must negotiate self-government. That's not the best place to do that.
View Pam Damoff Profile
Lib. (ON)
Thank you.
As you know, Public Safety Canada and Indigenous Services are actually doing consultation. Both ministers have in their mandate letter to work in partnership with first nations communities to designate policing as an essential service.
I'm really impressed, Chief Lazore, at just how advanced you are in terms of your criminal justice system, from policing to courts—all of it—and for some time.
Chief Doss-Cody from B.C., thank you for your testimony. You're obviously in a different place, and Chief Bellerose, you're in a different place.
I guess my question to the three of you is this: Do you think the government should be providing funding to build capacity in communities?
I think, Chief Lazore, you could be providing a lot of advice to other communities, but you need the time and resources to be able to do it. Everyone is at a different place.
To your point, Chief Bellerose, you want to put yourself in a position to succeed. I'm wondering what you think about providing funding for that capacity building.
Reginald Bellerose
View Reginald Bellerose Profile
Reginald Bellerose
2021-05-13 12:06
I think one of the first things we need is community engagement.
I've been a chief for about 830 weeks. That's a little more than 16 years. It comes from the people. I can't come here and say, “This is what to do.” That capacity is definitely needed, but what we need to do is go back to the root, to the power, which is the people. The people have the power in treaty territories and Indian country.
What we need to know is how to go and talk to them. Right now I will tell you, because of the colonial system and what's imposed, there's a lack of trust, especially toward first nation leadership. For us, we need to also regain that trust, because we're the ones answering for you guys. It's not government—
Connie Lazore
View Connie Lazore Profile
Connie Lazore
2021-05-13 12:09
Was that on my first answer? When I spoke earlier, I believe I was speaking about the enforcement of our laws and the restrictions of Canada.
As mentioned, we have to deal with two provinces when we talk about Canada laws. When we're talking about the jurisdiction of our court, we have to sit and negotiate with the province. I don't think we should be negotiating with the province.
I find it difficult when you talk about a self-government agreement for us to govern ourselves. With every issue we have, the provinces come in to negotiate, not the federal, yet it's the federal department that is responsible to us. We struggle with trying to get our self-government agreement, because there are so many mechanisms in there. Even education became the province. Justice is the province, and it's two provinces, not one.
We're fortunate that the ministries have come together to talk about an agreement that sees us coming together and recognizing our court. We talked earlier about the reciprocity of our orders. Just the way the provinces respect the orders of each other, our indigenous courts' orders should also be respected and allowed to happen.
Community development laws are for our community, not for the rest of Canada, so they should be heard in our courts, and Canada should not have any authority over how we develop them, if we develop them, and if they are sanctioned and approved. It belongs to each community to do that and to enforce them as well.
Today we look for the funding to pull all this justice system together to work for us—not for Canada but for us, for each respective community.
Thank you. I hope that answers the question you wanted me to elaborate on.
View Arnold Viersen Profile
CPC (AB)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.
I want to start with Chief Lazore. She talked in her opening remarks about section 107 and how the experience had changed over time. I was wondering if she could expand on that a little bit more.
Connie Lazore
View Connie Lazore Profile
Connie Lazore
2021-05-13 12:21
Thank you, honourable MP.
What happened was that Indigenous Services had decided they were no longer going to appoint justices of the peace. With that moratorium put in place, we did have, I believe, four. We were down to two, and we have one left. We required justices to sit in our court. We decided to take the inherent right component, as we did with the development and approval of our laws, because, again, Indigenous Services stopped approving bylaws. We needed laws to govern ourselves.
With that said, we decided to appoint justices of the peace. We put them through the training that, at the time, was available for them. We've had two sitting inherit right justices since then who have been hearing cases in our court. Today we have 10 in training to be justices of the peace.
We have been continually moving forward. We've been continually exercising our self-government and our inherent right.
We have heard in our court the four offences in the Indian Act that I identified earlier, but today we sit and negotiate that with part of our self-government agreement, because it's in the Indian Act.
If we have to negotiate that, to my mind that doesn't make sense, because we already have it. We're doing it. The provinces turn around and tell us we can't do that either, but it's in the Indian Act. Are we not working to be more independent of the Indian Act?
For us, we have been hearing it. We want to continue hearing it. We've had some cases very recently that probably should have gone to our court, but we sit here negotiating that, and it becomes very difficult.
We have to keep moving forward. We have justices in training and we have justices sitting in our court. As everyone else has said today, we require the funding. We've been carrying this court and all the needs of it for almost 60 years. For 57 or 58 years we've been carrying that.
Brooks Arcand-Paul
View Brooks Arcand-Paul Profile
Brooks Arcand-Paul
2021-05-13 12:25
Yes, although with those situations, it's mostly in southern Alberta, where there are a lot of police forces that first nations have put in place themselves. In central and northern Alberta, there aren't as many. It's mostly the RCMP that occupy the field, particularly if they have policing on their first nations. They have the actual RCMP detachments located within their nations.
However, when it comes to judicial prosecutions, we're running into that issue. That's been a constant issue even for those that do have their police forces in place, but it's less so there because they do have those agreements with the province.
View Arnold Viersen Profile
CPC (AB)
What you're saying is that they're able to act on most of the band laws in provincial court.
View Sylvie Bérubé Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is for Mr. Arcand-Paul, who is a lawyer.
Your not-for-profit association is geared towards first nations, Inuit and Métis lawyers. What are some of your major issues in terms of your work in assisting first nations with legislation and law enforcement?
Brooks Arcand-Paul
View Brooks Arcand-Paul Profile
Brooks Arcand-Paul
2021-05-13 12:33
Thank you for your question, Ms. Bérubé.
If I may, I'll respond in English.
What we never purport to do is to speak for nations. Nations have their own inherent right and sovereignty, which we try to protect. When we're looking at being able to provide nations with their ability to make these decisions, we always go back to the community. It has been brought up many times before this committee to listen to the grassroots. Chief Bellerose raised it. The power comes from the people. It's not a hierarchy that is similar to what we have with this House of Commons. We have to recognize that and respect it.
When we're looking at nations that want to pass laws, we have to go back to the groundwork. We have to go back to the grassroots folks to see what kinds of laws they want implemented. It's giving them the empowerment and allowing the nations to make that determination themselves, not by committee and not by making legislation to do so.
Brooks Arcand-Paul
View Brooks Arcand-Paul Profile
Brooks Arcand-Paul
2021-05-13 12:34
Listen to your first nation counterparts. Listen to the people on the ground. Open up those dialogues. Really, get out of the business of Indian management. We can do it. We have the ability to do it.
View Eric Melillo Profile
CPC (ON)
View Eric Melillo Profile
2021-05-13 12:38
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank all the witnesses for joining us today and for being part of this great discussion.
I'd like to come back to Mr. Arcand-Paul. If anyone else wants to jump in on this question, please do. Bear with me as I try to figure out the best way to ask it.
We've been hearing, and it's been touched on a bit today, that it's not just a lack of resources for enforcement, necessarily. There are a lot of barriers to accessing appropriate resources for many indigenous peoples throughout the process or throughout the entire justice system as a whole, if I can frame it that way.
Mr. Arcand-Paul, I'm wondering if you want to comment. Do you agree with that interpretation? Do you have any comments or any solutions to that?
Then I'd open it up to comments from anybody else.
Brooks Arcand-Paul
View Brooks Arcand-Paul Profile
Brooks Arcand-Paul
2021-05-13 12:39
I'm sorry. To reframe the question, is it whether first nations or indigenous groups have difficulties accessing the justice system generally for lack of funding?
Yes, that's a theme that has been reiterated many times at this committee today. I'm sure that you hear it at the other meetings on this topic. It is a problem. It is a problem for first nations and it's a problem for other indigenous groups in Canada to be able to exercise their inherent sovereignty.
The other issue is recognizing the legalities of it and recognizing their inherent jurisdiction. If you go to any community, you will know that they understand where they stand. Particularly the treaty nations and the ones on the Prairies have never given up that ability to exercise their jurisdiction.
How can you exercise your jurisdiction if you don't have the funds to do so? We see that Akwesasne and Kahnawake have the ability to establish courts and establish legal mechanisms internally so that they don't have to turn to courts in the provinces or at the federal level. Funding is a very important aspect, and we're not going to achieve that ability to exercise our inherent jurisdiction if dollars are not attached.
I want to make a comment for MP van Koeverden. Yes, those monies are a good start, but at this point, we need more. That's over five years. That's not enough money to be able to establish legal systems and establish inherent jurisdiction.
View Marcus Powlowski Profile
Lib. (ON)
I got up on the right side of the bed, I'll have you know, this morning.
My question is to all of you. I think there's been pretty well unanimous interest and desire to have more power to develop and enforce your own laws on your own territories. We certainly heard that.
Now, the devil's always in the details. To what extent? There are obviously very many different layers of societal rules. What about the big crimes? I mean things like murder, sexual assaults, drug offences. Do you want to also be making and enforcing laws related to these and if necessary prosecuting them and if necessary even incarcerating people?
I'd like to hear an answer from all of you, if possible.
Murray Browne
View Murray Browne Profile
Murray Browne
2021-05-13 12:45
Thank you for the excellent question.
Tla'amin Nation and many other nations I work with have not expressed interest in taking over criminal prosecutions, but we do separate land jurisdiction from criminal action. The nations I work with are willing to support and work with the RCMP under the Criminal Code and with Canadian courts on serious offences. Sentencing, community justice, is another matter.
We have to have authority over lands. If there's a drug dealer or a violent sexual offender living in the middle of the community, yes, they need to be dealt with under the Criminal Code, but the nation has to have land jurisdiction to restrain or move that person out.
I'll say that. Thanks for the question.
Connie Lazore
View Connie Lazore Profile
Connie Lazore
2021-05-13 12:46
Yes, I do. As mentioned earlier, we have our own court. We have our community laws and bylaws there, and we've also heard common assault cases, B and E, vagrants, and cruelty to animals. We're not looking to take everything right away because, as you know, none of it is funded. We have a police force that does have holding cells, but that's just a holding cell. That type of Criminal Code offence will still belong with Canada. Canada has those laws for that. We're not looking to take that on, but we are looking to govern ourselves and to have our community laws. We don't want to step on other people's toes, so we'd appreciate if they'd get off ours.
Thank you.
Brooks Arcand-Paul
View Brooks Arcand-Paul Profile
Brooks Arcand-Paul
2021-05-13 12:47
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's a really good question.
I want to echo Chief Lazore's sentiments. Ultimately, the Criminal Code isn't going anywhere. I think the way Chief Justice Lamer put it was quite great in the Delgamuukw decision:“Let us face it, we are all here to stay.” We're not going anywhere. We have to recognize how we work together to be able to move forward together, like the treaty intended.
View Marcus Powlowski Profile
Lib. (ON)
Thank you.
Maybe I can ask Chief Lazore about this. She was the only one so far to have mentioned section 107 and justices of the peace appointed under section 107.
My understanding is that in 2004 the Harper government stopped the funding, and you've appointed your own justices of the peace. What do you think about beginning to fund section 107 courts to prosecute bylaw offences under the Indian Act? Are you in favour of that? I'll ask you and then I'll open it to anyone else.
Connie Lazore
View Connie Lazore Profile
Connie Lazore
2021-05-13 12:48
Thank you, honourable MP, for that question. It is a good question.
The truth is that we're not looking to do anything under the Indian Act. I would prefer that we pull that section right away and that we govern ourselves and our courts, our enforcement, our adjudication—all of it—under us, under Mohawks of Akwesasne.
As mentioned, we're working on that self-government agreement to pull away certain particulars of the Indian Act, and that would be one of them. No, I'm not interested in having our court being an Indian Act court. As the chief mentioned earlier, we get in trouble for everything. That one would really get me in trouble.
Derek Yang
View Derek Yang Profile
Derek Yang
2021-05-13 12:49
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I will echo what my colleague mentioned earlier. These are the issues that we're facing as treaty nations. Under provisions under the Indian Act as well as the First Nations Land Management Act, we do not have powers to continue or to adopt. We currently don't have the ability to be able to enforce our own laws and have court oversight. To simply re-fund that option would leave a lot of nations and bands out of that option.
View Gary Vidal Profile
CPC (SK)
Sorry for our changing our order on you. Thank you so much.
I want to thank all the witnesses. This has been tremendous today, and there has been a lot of valuable information provided for us to consider in our recommendations.
I want to go down a very specific path and I want to open it up to any of you who want to jump in here.
One of the things we've heard over the times we've met on this matter over the last couple of weeks—and I think we've heard it over and over again today—is this concept of a jurisdictional quagmire that seems to be inherently in the system.
We've also heard of the concept of some really good partnerships that are working, and that there is willingness of the law enforcement agencies—whoever they are, whether it's RCMP or your own individual enforcement agencies—to enforce, but the prosecution and the process beyond that seems to be a challenge in what I would call this jurisdictional quagmire.
I want to open up with a really simple question. Instead of a five-year legislative development of this framework and many of those kinds of things, are there some really simple things that you would say...? If you could offer one piece of advice today that would make a difference tomorrow to get rid of some of the jurisdictional issues that you find yourselves facing every day, what would that be?
I'll open it up to whoever wants to go first, and I'd like to hear from as many of you as possible in the short time I have.
Connie Lazore
View Connie Lazore Profile
Connie Lazore
2021-05-13 13:08
Thank you, Chair.
For me, we need to be recognized at the same level as the federal government. For years I've heard “nation to nation” and I've constantly asked someone to define what that meant.
As I see us now, you have the federal, provincial, municipal, and eventually first nation governments. We are the first people of this country, Canada, everything. We are just literally the first people. We should be sitting eye to eye with the federal government, and there I see “nation to nation”. We should not be working with the provinces. We are being pushed down and held under their thumbs at the provincial level. We need to be eye to eye with the federal government.
I have a very difficult time waiting for Canada to decide that policing on first nations reserves is essential. It's the same thing with my fire department. They're not paid. I go across the river and they're all paid, right there in Cornwall, Ontario.
Why are we treated to a level that is a fourth-level government when you claim “nation to nation”? My one opinion, comment, recommendation, is treat us as your equal, and with respect.
Thank you, Chair.
Reginald Bellerose
View Reginald Bellerose Profile
Reginald Bellerose
2021-05-13 13:10
This is Reg Bellerose.
The Chair: Hi, Reg.
Chief Reginald Bellerose: Thanks, Gary.
It's very simple. Everyone needs to understand who the chiefs in Canada are. It's very, very simple. I look at it a little differently because of what I've been through. I don't see us as third level; I see the chiefs as the first level in this country. Just recognize that.
Thank you.
Brooks Arcand-Paul
View Brooks Arcand-Paul Profile
Brooks Arcand-Paul
2021-05-13 13:10
I really like the brevity of Chief Bellerose.
Just listen, also. It's really difficult, and we can sometimes get it into our heads that we have all the answers, but you have to listen to the people to know what those answers are and what the people want. That's what our chiefs are busy working on. That's what I am busy working on. I listen. Instead of talking and talking, we need to listen to be able to find concrete solutions.
Leon McNab
View Leon McNab Profile
Leon McNab
2021-05-13 13:11
Yes. I have a couple of comments. I'd like to make a suggestion.
Across Canada, we need to be comparable. Some of our communities are ahead, while some are left behind. We need to develop at a rate that's acceptable to everyone. A lot of our communities are not prepared in the areas of policing and fire safety. On fire safety, there are communities without fire trucks. I can go on and on, but I think that we need to recognize that first nations people need to develop, and if there is going to be a plan, it is important to have the involvement of our leaders, our chiefs and our people at those tables, where we can all develop at an even pace.
Jeff Preston
View Jeff Preston Profile
Jeff Preston
2021-05-11 11:06
Good morning, everyone. Thank you for having us today.
My name is Jeff Preston. I'm the officer in charge of the Campbell River detachment on Vancouver Island, British Columbia. I'm speaking on behalf of Inspector Dustin Rusk from RCMP indigenous relations services. He's having technical difficulties, so I'm going to read his opening remarks on his behalf.
I'd like to start off by recognizing that I am speaking from the traditional territories of We Wai Kai, Wei Wai Kum and Homalco first nations here on beautiful Vancouver Island.
The RCMP has an important role, along with other government and non-governmental agencies, to support the enhanced safety and well-being of indigenous communities. It is one of the RCMP's strategic priorities.
It is important for all frontline enforcement service providers, including the police, to be kept abreast of any legislative developments involving aspects of indigenous legal matters that are pertinent to law enforcement activities for indigenous communities. The RCMP and other policing service providers work in partnership with the ministries responsible for the safety and well-being of indigenous communities. The RCMP supports the need for enforcement on first nation reserves in relation to COVID-19 measures to control the spread of the disease and will continue to engage with the leaders of indigenous communities where the RCMP is the police service of jurisdiction.
At the onset of the pandemic, the importance of enforcing band-created bylaws related to COVID-19 became acute. The RCMP's response was to work with indigenous communities, the Public Prosecution Service of Canada—known as PPSC—and other partners to find ways that were lawful and respectful. Under sections 81 and 85 of the Indian Act, first nation communities may establish band bylaws relevant to the COVID-19 pandemic. Of particular relevance, section 81(1)(a) states that a band bylaw may be passed “to provide for the health of residents on the reserve and to prevent the spreading of contagious and infectious diseases”.
When investigation is warranted, the RCMP will carry it out and determine if there are reasonable grounds to lay a charge under a band bylaw. Generally speaking, band bylaws are treated as federal laws that are enforceable by the RCMP, the police of jurisdiction or the band bylaw enforcement officers. A contravention of the band bylaw is a summary conviction offence. The offence and circumstances will determine the appropriate form of release, appearance notice, undertaking or summons.
RCMP personnel continue to exercise judgment and operational discretion to enforce the COVID-19-related band bylaws, in accordance with relevant statutory and constitutional law as well as national and divisional policies. If there are any questions or concerns about whether charges are warranted or supported, RCMP personnel may consult the regional PPSC office for a Crown opinion.
With respect to COVID-19-related band bylaws, first nation communities may elect to consider entering into a prosecution and enforcement protocol agreement with the PPSC regional office and local law enforcement, often the RCMP, for the enforcement of a specific bylaw that relies on section 81 and/or subsection 85(1) of the Indian Act as a legal authority. There are several published examples of this protocol approach currently in effect in which the RCMP as well as other police agencies were involved.
A key example of this emanates from Duncan, British Columbia, where a protocol with the Cowichan Tribes was signed into effect in January 2021.This protocol sets out a procedure for the investigation by the RCMP and prosecution by the PPSC of offences set out in bylaws adopted by Cowichan Tribes and specifically enforced to address the COVID-19 pandemic through the bylaws. A significant aspect of this protocol is the option to consider restorative justice. Before submitting a report to the Crown for charge approval, the RCMP will consider whether the matter is appropriate for diversion to the Cowichan Tribes restorative justice program.
As indigenous communities continue to deal with the pandemic and to protect their members, the RCMP will continue to work with these communities in a collaborative manner and to prioritize their safety.
Thank you for having us today. We look forward to your questions.
View Pam Damoff Profile
Lib. (ON)
If there's a drug dealer on a reserve and the reserve wants to lay charges. who do they call, and what's the process? We know it's not just during COVID. This has been an ongoing issue. Could you go through the process for that, and where the barriers are?
Jeff Preston
View Jeff Preston Profile
Jeff Preston
2021-05-11 11:19
With regard to, for example, drug dealing, that is a Criminal Code or Controlled Drugs and Substances Act offence, so that's a federal statute. It's fairly easy; you call the RCMP or police of jurisdiction for that area, and then we would do our investigation.
The issue becomes whether we're successful in gathering enough evidence to support a charge under the CDSA or Criminal Code. A lot of times the first nation communities would like to get that individual off reserve. Then we have to start dealing with band bylaws, which may or may not even exist, and if they do exist, there's the issue of whether or not they are enforceable by the RCMP.
View Rachel Blaney Profile
NDP (BC)
Thank you so much, Chair.
Thank you for your presentation today. It has been very helpful, as have the questions you've answered.
I'll go first to Inspector Preston.
You spoke in your introduction about the fact that you have three first nation territories that you work upon. Could you talk about your experience in some of the hurdles or concerns you have when enforcing the various statutes and regulations, as well as bylaws and laws on first nation communities? Can you also add that context of how you deal with three different communities and the challenges that this situation might present?
Jeff Preston
View Jeff Preston Profile
Jeff Preston
2021-05-11 11:30
As I've stated, in each contract province in which the RCMP is the police of jurisdiction, there are over 100 statutes and regulations that we're expected to enforce. Unfortunately, not all of those regulations or statutes are applicable on reserve.
I'll give an example. Here in British Columbia, the B.C. Motor Vehicle Act, a pretty standard act, is not applicable on all roads within reserves. For example, in one of the communities here, on one of the roads going into the community, the Motor Vehicle Act applies, but as soon as you turn off onto a different road, still on the same reserve, the act doesn't apply. It becomes very difficult.
As officers, this is what we do for a living, so we get to know where we can and cannot apply the law, but it becomes very difficult to explain to the general public, and it builds mistrust when a member of the community calls and reports that so-and-so is driving when they know they're not supposed to be. We say, “Well, actually that doesn't apply on that road; please call us when they actually go over to a different road.”
As I say, it's very difficult to explain to the general public and it leads to mistrust and a loss of community confidence in their law enforcement.
With regard to band bylaws, it becomes even more difficult because of all the things we've talked about already, such as what it takes to enact the law itself and for the chief and council to actually come up with the law, because they have to work with lawyers. It gets to be very expensive, and then it comes to the enforcement. Who will enforce it; and if we do enforce it, what mechanism do we have in place for a dispute? If someone disputes that they were breaking the bylaw, who is going to hear that? Who's going to be the prosecutor? Who's going to be the judge?
It all becomes very complicated, and a lot of times communities do not have the capacity to roll with that.
View Jaime Battiste Profile
Lib. (NS)
Can you talk to me about what the discretion is like? Give me a sense. Let's say I'm a band. I reach out to the police and say I want to put up a blockade because COVID has become serious in my community and certain people aren't following the blockades or the check stops and they're driving right by our safety people. What's the discretion the police would have in terms of saying that they're not going to follow the band bylaw?
Amichai Wise
View Amichai Wise Profile
Amichai Wise
2021-05-11 11:46
I think that one would be best answered by the RCMP. I'd be happy to pass it to either one of my colleagues.
Jeff Preston
View Jeff Preston Profile
Jeff Preston
2021-05-11 11:47
That's an excellent question. In fact, that has happened here in my home detachment, where all three of the first nation communities have put up roadblocks to entering into the community.
Although there is no bylaw in place right now to say that these are enforceable, the RCMP has worked with each of the reserves to ensure that we will be there with them. If they run into issues with people trying to go past the blockade, and they have, we'll stand by and keep the peace and ensure that those laws are enforced.
Unfortunately, the issue is we have to stand by and keep the peace, which means we have to rely on the band representative to stand there and say, “You are not welcome on reserve” for whatever reason, and they are then the ones who are to tell people they have to leave. We will stand by. When I say "keep the peace", we'll be there to ensure that this individual isn't assaulted or threatened. If they are, or if it looks like they're about to be assaulted, then we'll step in, but we don't have the legal authority to stand there ourselves and say that someone can't come in and enforce this bylaw. We have to work with the community.
View Gary Vidal Profile
CPC (SK)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to follow up on where the conversation has been going on the concept of relationships and communication. Obviously this is my last opportunity today and I want to end it on a relatively positive note.
Staff Sergeant How, I know you have some stories in your own experience of some really positive things you've been involved in personally, and also some that your members, for whom you've been a leader, have been involved in. Back in your time as the commanding officer of Meadow Lake, when I was the mayor, you initiated a communication strategy to tell some of the good stories about what the RCMP was doing in our community, so that it wasn't always about the negative things. It wasn't always about the enforcement things.
I want to give you an opportunity to share two or three of these positive stories and how the impact of those positive stories could benefit those who are policing in first nations communities, both those that are neighbouring non-indigenous communities and those that are more remote and northern.
Ryan How
View Ryan How Profile
Ryan How
2021-05-11 11:56
Thank you for the question.
I read through Chief Blake's comments last week from the Tsuut'ina Nation. He made a comment about enforcement being only a very small part of our job. I very much agree with that. There is a lot of restorative justice going on behind the scenes. It's as simple as Mr. Vidal was saying.
A few years ago, we had a Mountie from Quebec. He was posted to a northern first nation in Saskatchewan. He had never been on a first nation before. He went to a powwow. As soon as he heard the drum, he started dancing in his own way. You may have seen it; it was national news. We had the dancing Mountie. The fact that he let himself go and stepped outside of his professional persona won the community over. It was just a simple three- or four-minute escape for him, I suppose. It's things like this that you don't see and that are outside of the enforcement.
In my time in Loon Lake, we were dealing with an extremely violent gang that was terrorizing the whole side of the province using the colour red as a method to intimidate and scare the community. I was so frustrated, because kids couldn't even walk to school. They were terrified that these gangs were always out and they always had firearms.
One of my young members made a comment about the colour red. He said that we wore red first, hearkening back to our red tunics. We met with the community leaders and were informed that red is a very important traditional colour in first nations as well. We said, “Let's take this back.” Again, this is totally outside of enforcement. It's thinking outside the box and relationship building.
What was thought of was to get the community mobilized all in red and walk around and tell the gangs “no more”. This was our community. We mobilized over 350 people to walk around the community that day. We were very impressed with the community because it was willing to stand with us, and we were willing to stand with them. That had far more impact than any enforcement that could have been done.
Just to reiterate, the common theme I'm hearing is that it's all about relationships and hundreds of thousands of positive contacts between the police and all communities, especially first nations, every day that don't get noticed.
I appreciate Mr. Vidal's question and his letting me get the message out there that while there are legislative barriers, it's very important to acknowledge that there's excellent work being done.
Dale Cox
View Dale Cox Profile
Dale Cox
2021-05-11 12:18
Tanisi.
Good afternoon.
Good morning to everybody.
I'm speaking to you from Treaty 8 territory in northwestern Alberta. I'd like to give you a bit of my own history and the history of our police service.
I'm about to enter my 43rd year of policing, so I've been around for a while and have seen a lot of this go on.
Our police service is moving into its 13th year of operation. I spent my first 30 years with the RCMP. I left to become the first chief of police for the Lakeshore Regional Police Service and to build the police service from the ground up.
I'm very proud of the men and women who work here. I'm also very proud of the communities that have stood behind and supported first nation policing.
The issues I want to speak about today are around enforcement, but enforcement within the realm of self-administered first nation policing. We are on the cusp of moving forward in this area, which for years has been neglected. The potential for what can happen there has not been fully recognized.
With Alberta moving forward with Bill 38 last year and recognizing self-administered first nation policing in the province, we were put on equal footing with all policing in Alberta, including all municipal policing and the RCMP. That gave us 48% of the recognition we required. We need the other 52% of recognition as an essential service and a true policing service, and that needs to come from the federal government, our 52% partners in self-administered first nation policing. We hear that is moving forward, but unfortunately I've been hearing those things for quite a while.
Part of what I'll share with you today are stories that show the distrust and the lack of belief within the first nations for this truly moving forward.
I'll share with you a story from six years ago. The public safety minister called together everybody in first nation policing from across Canada. Our meeting was held in Alberta. There were representatives from Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia there. The minister got up and spoke for 45 to 50 minutes. Within that speech, he said at least five times, “I am here to listen to you and hear what it is you need.” He finished speaking and walked out of the room. I was sitting beside an elder, who looked at me and said, “I wonder if he could hear us from out there.”
Those are the types of things that have caused that distrust. Unfortunately, that distrust moves to the policing realm as well. I can tell you it has taken us 12 years to build that trust, and we are in part the victims of our own success.
Our calls for service—and our belief that when people call, somebody will come—have moved forward, and we are sitting with more files than we have officers to police them. Our issue right now is resourcing. I don't sleep at night because with the resources at our police service, I usually have one police officer working.
For everybody to understand, our area consists of five separate first nations. The total area is over 160 kilometres from one end to the other. With only one police officer working, I'm asking police officers to decide which priority one call they will go to first. Do they go to the mental health call where somebody is in possession of weapons or do they go to the domestic dispute where somebody is being hurt? What do they do when there is only one person to go? They can't be split in half. Those are the issues we have out there.
The other story I'll share with you is about an issue that bothers me to this day. Since we do not have enough resources to police around the clock, there are four to five hours each day when nobody is actually working, even though they are on call. At 3:30 a.m. on a blizzardy February morning, we got a call for an assault and stabbing on one of our nations. Our member was called out. He defrosted his vehicle, got on the road and drove through the blizzard. By the time that had all happened, the ambulance had been called.
The ambulance works 24 hours a day. It arrived at the scene. The victim was inside, bleeding profusely, and the family was outside, begging the ambulance attendants to come in and treat their son. However, ambulance services have a policy that attendants can't go into dangerous situations without the police being there. That resulted in a homicide.
Those are not things I'm able to justify to my community, my elders, or to those families.
Those are the areas where first nation policing has moved so far past what it originally came out as—that is, core policing and response policing. We have the trained members, the ability and the community confidence to be able to supply all the services that are required out there.
View Arnold Viersen Profile
CPC (AB)
Yes, that's precisely what I was going at—whether it is a possibility for them to have their own court or tribunal. That would be self-administered, I suppose. It would be their own essential justice system. Is that what you're saying?
Dale Cox
View Dale Cox Profile
Dale Cox
2021-05-11 12:40
Within first nations, they have a right to self-govern, and self-governance should include a justice system. First nations aren't saying that they want to leave Canada, that they want to leave all of this. What they're saying is, “We recognize we have problems within our nations. We also know how to fix them. Let us fix them. We will stay within your framework somewhat, but some of that framework has been going on for over 100 years and hasn't worked. Maybe take a look at something different.” That would be restorative justice practices and using culturally traditional types of things to address it. What it has to come out to is that all parties agree that this is not right, that this is what's wrong, and that this is what needs to be fixed.
Now, how do we move forward and go from there? I met with my board of chiefs two weeks ago, and they now want to start serious conversations with the federal government for the next move in our justice system.
The first was our police service. We're concrete. We're established. Now they want to move to the next steps of the justice system, have their own courts, have their own prosecutions and have their own ability to set laws that can work within their nations.
View Jamie Schmale Profile
CPC (ON)
Okay. If I could, let's talk about the relationship you have with the first nations.
Do you have a local police board with representation from the communities?
Dale Cox
View Dale Cox Profile
Dale Cox
2021-05-11 13:04
Yes. Our police service has primary jurisdiction on five separate first nations within our area. Each of those nations has assigned a police commission member. They have a person on that commission who is not an elected official, who sits on the police commission and has oversight and governance of our police service to follow the agreement, meet the Alberta Police Act and the Alberta policing standards, and hold the chief of police to account to make sure those things are being done.
View Jamie Schmale Profile
CPC (ON)
Is your department, or any in the surrounding area, using any restorative justice initiatives in your practice?
Dale Cox
View Dale Cox Profile
Dale Cox
2021-05-11 13:04
Oh, my goodness, this has been a bone of contention.
Funding for the restorative justice program was put under the jurisdiction of the board of chiefs. Unfortunately, the board of chiefs has enough other things to do so and isn't able to oversee it. In the 12 years that we've been here, we've been through nine different restorative justice directors. All of it has failed, and it comes from a lack of understanding of what the restorative justice process is about and having skilled and qualified people to fill those roles.
From the policing side, we've led that charge to try to get it up there because it is a valuable asset and is going to help us resolve matters much more quickly and keep indigenous people out of the corrections system, but we need the justice side to be on it. It's part of the justice system. It's not part of the police system. I would like to see the justice system step up in the province, or even federally, and give proper training and proper direction to these people and then screen them to do the job that we need to do.
Our police officers and our communities are screaming for this service, and we can't get it.
View Jamie Schmale Profile
CPC (ON)
I like what you said about the root causes and fixing it and helping those communities.
You just mentioned one about the justice system. How else would you fix this?
You said there are some problems. How would you fix that?
Dale Cox
View Dale Cox Profile
Dale Cox
2021-05-11 13:06
I would like to see, at the very least, provincial policy and standards for what the restorative justice system will do and can do, and an accounting and auditing for it to show that it is meeting those standards, as well as proper training, assessment and evaluation on a regular basis of the people who are there, and possibly even building to credentials for people to fill a restorative justice position.
View Rachel Blaney Profile
NDP (BC)
That's really helpful.
Finally, do you have any experience in the nations you serve of enforcing any traditional laws? You talked about banishment. With those traditional laws, has enforcement been successful?
Dale Cox
View Dale Cox Profile
Dale Cox
2021-05-11 13:19
Yes. I was raised among first nations people and I know how important family is to first nations. To ban somebody, to remove them from their family and from access to their family living on the nation, is a very severe step to take. It is taken very seriously among first nations people, and it's the last step that we will take.
That's why programs like community mobilization, the hub program and restorative justice are areas we need to address and move forward towards, to hopefully get to where we don't have to banish and we find another way of fixing the problem.
Larry Johnson
View Larry Johnson Profile
Larry Johnson
2021-05-10 15:39
Thank you.
My name is Larry Johnson, and I am the president of Nuu-chah-nulth Seafood Limited Partnership. Our shareholders are the Ditidaht First Nation, the Huu-ay-aht First Nations, the Kyuquot and Checleseht First Nations, the Uchucklesaht Tribe government, and the Ucluelet First Nation.
NSLP is a commercial fishing enterprise that offers fisheries management support to the shareholding nations, their fishers and entrepreneurs in various aspects of fisheries development. I want to focus today on saying that there are nations that support sustainable salmon farming. They believe that marine salmon farming and wild salmon can coexist and be mutually beneficial.
The state of the Pacific salmon is, in fact, in deep trouble for many reasons.
My story here today about fish farms goes back to 1995. I started off as a councillor for my nation. Fish farms were a bad word back in those days when I got involved in the mid-nineties. As a matter of fact, I led our hereditary chiefs on a declaration to the kick fish farms out of our traditional territory.
We had concerns like everyone else. I didn’t actually have my own mind made up. I kind of toed the line, much like a lot of people in this province. We took it upon ourselves to ask about what the concerns were. Our chiefs talked about a lot of things that others are talking about, like what happens to the bottom of these farms after the farms are gone. What happens if they escape? What happens about sea lice? What about chemicals that are used? What about safety plans? There were all kinds of questions.
As a councillor, I embarked on communications. We got answers, and I relayed the answers to our chiefs. In our nation, we have eight chiefs. I still recall that even though we answered the questions, they were still skeptical. One of the chiefs spoke up and asked about 50 years from now. What if we actually find out that we were wrong and we missed the boat? What's next?
I think it's really hard for fish farms to work in B.C. because there's fear in B.C. There are not enough treaties and there is not enough certainty for industry and first nations in B.C.
I participated on the indigenous and multi-stakeholder advisory body and technical working groups through the aboriginal coordinating committee that is hosted by FNFC so that I could participate and make sure that treaty nation voices were heard. We did our homework. We separated business from politics in our treaty nations by creating business arms that focus on straight business. It has to follow the strategic plan of the nation, of course, in building sustainable business and in our access to the ocean resources. We wanted it to be diversified with aquaculture.
I think aquaculture is a great opportunity for our nations economically. It provides jobs, revenue and profits to the nation, so that the nation can do what it likes and create services for its people. It helps the region. It boosts our local economy while contributing to the greater economy. It also supports a blue economy through aquaculture development.
How do we do this? We do it through partnerships. My company has done a lot of good work in partnerships. As a matter fact, we won the Business Partnership of the Year award through aboriginal achievement.
I want to talk a little bit about partnerships from my nation's perspective, because forestry is good example of building relationships. It takes a long time to build relationships. It takes a long time to build trust, but once you get those foundational things, then economic reconciliation is achievable. I think it's not something that you do and just let go. You have to keep a relationship going. It's a pathway forward. It does leave a path for others to follow.
That's the goal of our company. We have two nations working in shellfish aquaculture, kelp aquaculture and finfish aquaculture. Four of our five shareholder nations are modern-day treaty nations and have self-governing rights and law-making authorities. They'll decide what kind of economic opportunities they have within their traditional territories.
They're focused on building their nation and building an economy so they can draw their people back to their homelands. They want to enhance salmon. I think we can do a better job on production and survival rates so that we can carry on with enhanced salmon. We participate in commercial fisheries, aquaculture, including shellfish, kelp and salmon farming.
I think the one big thing that's totally missing from everyone's plan is predator management, and I think we really need to deal with that.
Again, I just want to re-emphasize that there are nations that support sustainable salmon farming because they believe that marine salmon farming and wild salmon can coexist and be mutually beneficial. I am pretty sure that this has been happening for several decades already.
I have a bit of an ask here that—
Margaret McIntosh
View Margaret McIntosh Profile
Margaret McIntosh
2021-05-06 11:08
Good morning, Mr. Chair.
My name is Margaret McIntosh. I'm from the Aboriginal Law Centre in the Department of Justice. I'm joined today by several colleagues from departmental legal services units with expertise in various aspects of the laws, policies and programs that this committee will be examining in relation to the challenges with enforcement of first nation laws and bylaws.
I'm pleased to be sharing opening remarks with officials from Indigenous Services Canada, Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness and the Public Prosecution Service of Canada.
Gaps in enforcement have been highlighted during the COVID-19 pandemic, when first nations looked for measures to protect their communities. While many first nations took direct action to ensure the safety of their communities during the pandemic, uncertainty with respect to enforcement has had adverse impacts on the safety and well-being of indigenous peoples.
Gaps associated with enforcement are not limited, however, to the COVID-19 context. Enforcement issues vary significantly across first nations and reflect a complex landscape of different governance models, access to health and social services, traditions and cultures, relationships with federal and provincial governments, and financial resources.
For instance, some communities experience challenges in enforcing Indian Act bylaws related to drugs and alcohol, leading to serious social problems on reserve. Other communities face difficulties with the enforcement of eviction laws pursuant to the First Nation Lands Management Act, forcing them to seek costly private prosecutions.
Additionally, many first nations seek the development of approaches that restore their traditional laws and legal traditions. These may require new approaches to enforcement that are different from those currently available under the criminal justice system.
The federal government has an important role to play in this area. However, making significant progress requires extensive co-operation between first nations, provinces and the federal government, given the complexity of the issues and the number of players involved.
Long-term solutions must be grounded in indigenous self-governance and leave room for flexibility to reflect the diverse realities, experiences and circumstances of individual communities.
Likewise, provinces are necessary partners given the shared jurisdiction over administration of justice and the need to facilitate coordination across justice processes in Canada.
At the federal level, the Minister of Justice has responsibility—shared with the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness in the areas of policing and corrections—for the federal policy on administration of justice, including with respect to indigenous peoples.
Recognizing that Justice Canada can play a helpful coordinating role in this area, we've been seeking opportunities to work with indigenous nations, federal departments and interested provinces, including Ontario and B.C.
On January 15, the Minister of Justice received a supplementary mandate letter in which he was tasked with the development of an indigenous justice strategy in consultation and co-operation with a number of federal ministers, provinces, territories and indigenous partners.
While we're still in the early days in the work on developing this strategy, which will require extensive engagement with indigenous peoples, we believe it could also provide an opportunity for discussions on the enforcement of first nation bylaws and laws with first nation leaders and partners.
At the community level, Justice Canada is also exploring how we can better support indigenous communities. The negotiation of administration of justice agreements provides a potential forward-looking response to this demand.
These tailor-made or stand-alone administration of justice agreements could provide practical, on-the-ground solutions and incubation of innovative approaches that could be part of longer-term solutions to address enforcement and prosecution gaps.
In closing, Justice Canada is committed to working with first nations, provinces and federal departments, since a coordinated and focused approach will be necessary to resolve the gap in enforcement and prosecution of first nation bylaws and laws.
Thank you. My colleagues and I would be pleased to respond to members' questions.
Julie Mugford
View Julie Mugford Profile
Julie Mugford
2021-05-06 11:13
Hello. Thank you very much for inviting me to speak today.
My name is Julie Mugford. I'm a senior director in the crime prevention, corrections, criminal justice and aboriginal policing policy directorate within Public Safety. My responsibility lies in the area of policy relating to the first nations policing program. Today I'm pleased to be accompanied by my colleagues, Douglas May from the emergency management and programs branch of Public Safety, and Jacques Talbot from legal services.
I recognize how important the effect of enforcement and prosecution of laws on first nations reserves is for advancing self-determination. I also understand that closing the enforcement prosecution gaps is required for a true nation-to-nation relationship. However, the current patchwork of overlapping interests and responsibilities in relation to first nation laws and bylaws between federal government departments, provinces, territories and first nation communities themselves has led to challenges in their enforcement and prosecution.
Making progress on this matter requires effort by many partners, including representatives in the federal, provincial, territorial and first nation governments. Policing in first nation communities is a shared interest beyond just the federal government. Provinces and territories are key partners in this area and have jurisdiction over the administration of justice.
Although Public Safety Canada does not have a direct mandate regarding the enforcement of laws or their prosecution, it does have a role to play regarding how they may be enforced by police services, when relevant. This is as a result of its first nations policing program, which invests in indigenous policing, as well as with contract policing, which allows provinces and municipalities to retain the services of the RCMP as a provincial or local police force.
As mentioned, the administration of justice, including policing, is an area of provincial jurisdiction. However, Public Safety Canada works with provinces, territories and municipalities through contract RCMP policing services to ensure the effective administration and management of police services agreements.
Public Safety is responsible for the first nations policing program. This program is cost shared with provinces and territories, most of which also hold agreements with Canada for the delivery of provincial and territorial police services by the RCMP, with the exception of Ontario and Quebec.
The Government of Canada recognizes the need to strengthen and expand culturally responsive policing in indigenous communities. This is evidenced by Minister Blair's mandate commitment and the recent funding commitment announced in budget 2021, which announced $861 million over five years beginning in 2021-22, and $145 million ongoing to support culturally responsive policing and community safety services in indigenous communities. It also includes $43.7 million over five years to co-develop a legislative framework for first nations policing that recognizes first nation policing as an essential service, and $540.3 million over five years and $126.8 million ongoing to support indigenous communities currently served under the first nations policing program and to expand the program to new indigenous communities. There are $108.6 million over five years to repair, renovate and replace policing facilities in first nation and Inuit communities. The budget commitment also includes $64.6 million over five years and $18.1 million ongoing to enhance indigenous-led crime prevention strategies and community safety services, and $103.8 million over five years for Indigenous Services Canada to support a new “pathways to safe indigenous communities” initiative to support indigenous communities in developing more holistic, community-based safety and wellness models.
To advance this important work, collaboration and engagement with first nation communities and organizations, provinces and territories, police organizations and others is crucial. We know we have a lot of work ahead of us. It's very important and we are looking forward to advancing this very important mandate commitment.
Again, I thank you for inviting me to speak today. I'm available for subsequent questions.
Stephen Traynor
View Stephen Traynor Profile
Stephen Traynor
2021-05-06 11:23
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm Stephen Traynor with Indigenous Services Canada, and I will give our opening remarks.
Thank you, everyone, for inviting Indigenous Services Canada to appear before you today.
As noted, my name is Stephen Traynor, and I am the director general for lands and environmental management. With me today are supposed to be Christopher Duschenes, Jacques Boutin and colleagues from our legal services unit, and hopefully they'll join us soon.
The department recognizes that enforcement and prosecution of first nation laws and bylaws is an area of growing concern for communities. We acknowledge that this concern has been amplified across the country in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic.
We want to echo our colleagues' point that this issue is a shared responsibility, where each of us plays a role along the enforcement continuum. ISC works collaboratively to build capacity for first nations to develop their own laws and bylaws; for instance, under the Indian Act and the framework agreement on first nations land management.
With respect to Indian Act bylaws, while recognizing that much remains unaddressed, we understand that, in the context of the COVID-19 pandemic, the RCMP and the Public Prosecution Service of Canada have committed to work with communities to enter into agreements to support the enforcement and prosecution of Indian Act bylaws.
ISC ministerial oversight and disallowance powers under section 82 of the Indian Act were removed in December 2014 to allow first nations to exercise more autonomy over their governance. However, in the spirit of co-operation, ISC continues to review draft bylaws from first nation communities for comment only, and only when specifically requested by a first nation. However, the decision to enact and the final content of the bylaw remain the responsibility of the band.
In terms of funding for policing, enforcement and prosecution, the department has supported other government departments and agencies in their work to pursue policing agreements and to continue supporting the administration of justice.
ISC's role has generally been to support first nations bylaw development through training, draft review and field support.
I would like to turn to first nations land management. ISC, through partnership with the lands advisory board and resource centre, provides significant support to participating first nations to develop their own land codes to reassert jurisdiction over their reserve lands and environment.
The framework agreement and the First Nations Land Management Act provide robust enforcement and prosecution powers to communities. That said, as first nations reassert their jurisdiction and develop their own laws to govern their lands and environment, participating communities also play a key role in determining how they want to enforce these laws and prosecute offences.
In recent years, we have seen first nations communities taking a leadership role on these issues, and I hope the committee will hear from them in the coming weeks. A leadership example that I would like to highlight today includes, in British Columbia, the K'ómoks First Nation, which set a precedent in 2018 by successfully undertaking a private prosecution of a trespass offence under their land code.
In Saskatchewan, the Muskoday and Whitecap Dakota first nations have entered into an MOU with the Government of Saskatchewan to work together to explore approaches to address the enforcement and prosecution of first nations laws and bylaws.
In addition, a national online conversation on the enforcement of indigenous laws has been led by the First Nations Land Management Resource Centre, supported by ISC, in collaboration with the Department of Justice, the RCMP and Public Safety. The conversation is a series of enforcement webinars promoting dialogue among indigenous governments, provinces and the Government of Canada on how to address the challenges of creating effective and affordable enforcement systems for indigenous laws.
Enforcement and prosecution of first nation laws and bylaws is a complex and multifaceted issue, and our collective effort will be required to move the agenda forward. ISC will continue to work with federal, provincial and first nations partners to better understand the challenges and opportunities related to supporting effective enforcement. We look forward to the contribution of this committee in advancing this work.
Thank you.
Meegwetch.
View Jamie Schmale Profile
CPC (ON)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good morning, everyone. There is such expertise on this panel today, so I'm excited to get started here.
I want to talk about an issue that is related to indigenous policing, given that our study is exploring a whole bunch of options. Something that is personally of interest to me is restorative justice.
My first question is for Ms. Mugford, but I'll also open it up to the floor because there might be other areas and departments who may want to speak to it.
I have a whole series of questions, so we'll maybe try to keep the answers tight here.
Ms. Mugford, can you or someone on the panel provide a brief understanding of what restorative justice is with respect to indigenous peoples and what role indigenous peoples have in that process?
Julie Mugford
View Julie Mugford Profile
Julie Mugford
2021-05-06 11:30
Unfortunately, restorative justice falls out of my area of expertise. I would look to my colleagues who are also on the call today. Failing that, we will also supply some written response to your question.
Margaret McIntosh
View Margaret McIntosh Profile
Margaret McIntosh
2021-05-06 11:30
I will speak to the idea of restorative justice with respect to the work that the Department of Justice is doing with administration of justice agreements with first nations.
I spoke about it in my opening statements, but this is where we are exploring options with indigenous communities for their own priorities in the area of justice. Very often it's in the form of restorative justice, which is a more traditional form of justice and where they are seeking an off-ramp from the criminal justice system or they wish to enforce their own laws.
I don't know if that's of assistance, but we're certainly doing a lot of work in that area.
Jeff Richstone
View Jeff Richstone Profile
Jeff Richstone
2021-05-06 11:31
I would say that the public prosecution service is well involved in restorative justice initiatives, in territories both north and south of 60.
We have an internal committee looking at the interaction of indigenous people with the justice system, and our policies are under revision right now, but we do have active initiatives and projects north of 60.
View Jamie Schmale Profile
CPC (ON)
Perfect.
In the models we're seeing is there a role for not only police officers but maybe also elders within the community to help in this process? Are you seeing that in the models that are available and working?
Jeff Richstone
View Jeff Richstone Profile
Jeff Richstone
2021-05-06 11:32
Yes, there is that. We actively involve elders and the police in those initiatives.
Jeff Richstone
View Jeff Richstone Profile
Jeff Richstone
2021-05-06 11:32
I'm sure you're aware of the Gladue sentencing principles and the framework there. We have a desk book chapter on that, which sets out a framework as to how we carry out those consultations.
I don't want to be too optimistic and say it's always working, but it's something we're working on and developing with the communities. As you can imagine, it's a work-in-progress. It's certainly a positive development and it's something we're committed to.
View Jamie Schmale Profile
CPC (ON)
If it matters, the feedback I'm getting from indigenous communities I'm speaking with is very supportive of this path. I'm glad to hear your comments on that. I appreciate that.
In a 2020 report found on the Public Safety website on the increasing use of restorative justice in criminal matters in Canada, a number of recommendations were made. Specifically, recommendation number 5 is, “Establish a national dialogue on best practices and standardization, where possible, regarding data collection.” It's not clear if that includes indigenous communities as well. I'm guessing it does.
Could the public safety department confirm that? If that is the case regarding indigenous communities, could you perhaps update this committee on the work that's been done to date?
Julie Mugford
View Julie Mugford Profile
Julie Mugford
2021-05-06 11:34
Again, I apologize. I am not sure of what is included, but I will get back to you and advise on that.
View Sylvie Bérubé Profile
BQ (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question is about First Nations police services. Earlier, Ms. Mugford talked about Indigenous police services, about self-determination and about protecting their territory.
What training have members of First Nations police services received?
Douglas May
View Douglas May Profile
Douglas May
2021-05-06 12:05
I'm Douglas May with Public Safety Canada.
The training first nations officers get depends on the kind of model or agreement the first nation is subject to. If it is a community tripartite model, which is where essentially the RCMP are the police of jurisdiction, then that training is done through the RCMP depot, etc. If it is through a self-administered police agreement whereby the police services are authorized or established by the provincial or territorial government, it's the jurisdiction that would be responsible for that training. For example, in B.C. it would be the justice institute and in Ontario it would be the OPP, etc. It depends largely on the jurisdiction in that regard.
View Sylvie Bérubé Profile
BQ (QC)
Many studies refer to systemic racism.
What is the situation for First Nations police services? Is there any trust in that regard?
Jacques Talbot
View Jacques Talbot Profile
Jacques Talbot
2021-05-06 12:06
I can clarify a little.
The policing agreements signed with Indigenous communities to fund their police services are tripartite agreements signed with provincial governments. They establish their training requirements in those agreements. The principle is that Indigenous police officers receive the same training as non-Indigenous officers.
In Quebec [inaudible] or Ontario, the provinces also require cultural sensitivity training that officers must receive. Very often, the First Nations themselves play a role in establishing the programs designed for them.
The Government of Quebec has some very interesting initiatives. Of course, the people responsible would be in a much better position than we are to talk about them, particularly about what being is done at collegiate level or at the Institut de police du Québec in Nicolet. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police training depot also…
Nicole Rempel
View Nicole Rempel Profile
Nicole Rempel
2021-05-06 12:12
Thank you to everyone here for the invitation to speak on a matter of great importance to my community, which is the K'ómoks First Nation, and in fact to all indigenous communities, whether they are under the Indian Act, land code, or are self-governing under a modern treaty.
I'd like to start with the following statement.
Self-government and the rule of law are meaningless and empty slogans if first nation laws cannot be enforced. The Crown has the necessary tools to enforce its laws. Federal and provincial governments are well financed and equipped with police forces, prosecutors and courts to ensure their laws are enforced. Enforcement of first nation laws is complex because the right enforcement tools are not available and capacity for enforcement is not yet developed with first nations.
In British Columbia, the RCMP will generally not enforce first nation laws because the provincial prosecution service will not prosecute offences under first nation laws, whether they are bylaws under the Indian Act, land code laws, or laws enacted by treaty nations. This is because they are not enactments for the purposes of provincial law.
The K'ómoks First Nation helped fill this jurisdictional void by addressing the unenforceability issue head-on in court in 2018 with the K'ómoks First Nation v. Thordarson and Sorbie decision. K'ómoks had a lessee, Ryan Thordarson, and his wife, Amelia Sorbie, who refused to pay rent to their landlord, who held a certificate of possession. Their lease was terminated and they were evicted. However, they still refused to leave. By refusing to leave, they had committed a land code offence because they had no lawful right to be on our lands. They were thus issued a notice of trespass by me under our land code, which is a quasi-criminal offence.
I should state that the difference between Indian Act bylaws and land code is that the authority is transferred from Canada to first nation land code nations to develop laws and to have those enforced. That's where this confusion seems to come in.
The RCMP said they could not remove Thordarson or charge them under the land code offence. They would attend and keep the peace as our laws were not “real laws”. The Crown would not prosecute as it didn't recognize our laws or the authority we had to create these laws. These are not bylaws; these are laws.
K'ómoks had a difficult decision. We had someone squatting on our land illegally, so we decided the only way forward was to charge and prosecute the offence itself via Criminal Code provisions that allow for a private prosecution of a criminal offence. This was unheard of.
The court was baffled and unfamiliar with the land code and the authority granted to develop and enforce laws under the framework agreement of the First Nations Land Management Act. After 10 months in court proceedings, the court eventually got to the understanding and ordered the police to remove the trespasser. This carried significant costs to K'ómoks in legal fees for private prosecution, in the ballpark of $178,000. The trespassers got 10 months of free rent and were fined $1,000 each. This was hardly an equitable decision. It was an extremely costly process. We should not have had to go to court to get that court order.
Just this week—today, in fact—we have another trespasser on reserve who was issued a notice of trespass by me and an RCMP officer two days ago. We are not hopeful that he will leave. In fact, he has dared us to take him to court. We could potentially be looking at another costly court case.
With the court decision in Thordarson in favour of K'ómoks, the question of enforcement should be a non-issue and the RCMP should be there to enforce the matter. However, we've been told by the RCMP lawyer that they have not been granted that direction from higher-ups within the RCMP. While our relationship with the RCMP has drastically improved due to a change in inspectors, their hands are tied at the moment with regard to enforcing laws, because of the lack of direction from above.
A big selling feature of the land code framework agreement is being self-governing on our reserve lands, with the ability to create our own laws and have them enforced and recognized in courts, which wasn't happening under the Indian Act. Funding also remains an issue to develop laws and enforcement.
A secondary issue that we have is that K'ómoks is also in the ninth year of stage five treaty negotiations. We recently held a forum on first nation law enforcement in partnership with the BC Treaty Commission. This forum included land code nations, nations negotiating treaties and self-governing nations, as well as police officers and representatives from the offices of the attorneys general, both federal and provincial.
What we learned was that nations such as Maa-nulth and Tla'amin have been struggling with enforcement issues as treaty nations, and neither has successfully prosecuted a single offence under their laws.
To date, the only modern treaty nation to successfully address an enforcement issue is the Tsawwassen First Nation, which has a very costly enforcement agreement with the Delta municipal police.
To be self-governing, first nations need to have proper enforcement tools, including an adjudicative body, enforcement services and capacity for policing, and mechanisms that harmonize with the provincial court administrative systems.
We are trying to achieve the above through our land code by creating things like community protection laws, adjudication laws and a justice tribunal, and also through our treaty negotiations because we are very close to voting on a treaty. If we're dealing with this under the land code as a self-governing portion under the Indian Act, then how is this going to work out for a treaty? So far, modern-day treaties provide only the first of these tools, and that is law-making. It's the same with the land code.
Before closing, I just want to refer back to the enforcement forum that was hosted by the BC Treaty Commission. It had a number of recommendations. I'm happy to provide these to you, to whomever I need to provide them to, so that they can be shared. There are a number of recommendations, including needing language in the treaty to ensure that first nations laws under treaty can be adjudicated under a first nations justice tribunal.
With regard to the mechanics of enforcement, we need to change the treaty language and provincial law to clarify that first nations laws are “enactments” for the purpose of the Provincial Court Act. That will allow the filing of a first nations justice tribunal order and enable it to come to the order of a court to trigger court enforcement mechanisms.
With regard to policing and enforcement agencies, we have tried for years to negotiate a tripartite agreement with the Province of B.C. and the RCMP, and we have been told repeatedly that they no longer do these tripartite agreements. I understand that may be changing, and I really hope it does. The issues we're facing here in K'ómoks with drug dealers, people trespassing....
Keith Blake
View Keith Blake Profile
Keith Blake
2021-05-06 12:20
Good afternoon, everyone.
[Witness spoke in Tsuut'ina]
[English]
My name is Keith Blake. I'm the chief of police of the Tsuut'ina Nation. I'm also an executive member of the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association and am proud to represent 36 self-administered first nations police services across our country.
First, I want to thank you for this opportunity. It's a critically important discussion, and our communities have been speaking long and loud in relation to this very topic.
As this discussion relates to the enforcement of first nations, which really falls under the police jurisdiction, I thought it would initially be important to touch on the first nations policing program. I was fortunate enough to hear some of the other panellists, and this was a discussion point. I thought it might be good, however, to put it through a first nations policing lens.
The FNPP is over 35 years old and is in dire need of immediate change. The program is a signed funding agreement—in our case a tripartite agreement between the nation, the province and the federal government—which unfortunately creates inequities and unfair restrictions for first nations police services that are not experienced by the traditional mainstream policing services.
The FNPP has not yet been designated as an essential service and it falls under, as was mentioned earlier, the grants and contributions program. The funding is neither long-term nor sustainable, and our funding agreements, specifically in our case, are really year-to-year extensions.
This funding model truly does not allow us to properly prepare and strategize for the community's needs and public safety. It's also funded only for what could be termed core policing function—that is, responsive models. We're not funded to have community programming, prevention or the specified and specialty units other police services have.
It's important and, I think, really critical to note that former public safety minister Ralph Goodale stated that the program “does not cut the mustard” and is in dire need of change. The current minister, Bill Blair, stated that the FNPP needs updating.
Canada has a responsibility to improve first nations policing by making it an essential service and providing adequate funding for the nations to build and sustain proper infrastructure, including governance models.
This unstable funding model has really created an air of instability within our services, whereby our officers and our staff members don't feel that this is a program that will be sustained, and therefore feel that perhaps their profession and their jobs may not be sustained.
This disparity also includes what we receive in our salaries and in our pension and benefits. We end up usually losing our really high-quality officers to more mainstream policing services that have a sustainable funding model at a higher rate.
To sum up, our first nation police services are underfunded and understaffed and face unfair barriers and impediments; yet we still see unprecedented successes in effective, efficient and culturally appropriate community-based policing.
I will also state that we were very happy to hear of the infusion into the program in the last federal budget. We're guardedly optimistic that it will bring some needed support and changes within the program.
Speaking to the enforcement side, the enforcement role that the police undertake is just one important part of the structure of the justice system in our communities. There is the legislative piece, the enforcement piece, the prosecution and the adjudication component. Though we recognize that not many communities have the direct ability to change the way funding and the justice systems correlate, it is important to consider the historical traumas experienced by indigenous peoples, throughout our country and for generations, while considering the ongoing harm that inadequate funding causes in the justice resources that government bodies provide; it is to one of the most vulnerable populations within our country.
Nation-legislated offences are an important aspect of self-determination. They are created from a community lens to address the individual nation's self-identification and the specific needs of the community and the challenges they face.
A key piece of the justice framework is the prosecution of lawfully enacted nation legislation. Most jurisdictions across the country do not recognize or prosecute nation-legislated offences. The challenge most indigenous communities face in this country is the refusal or the reluctance to have provincial crown prosecutors or federal prosecutors undertake the prosecution of these nation-legislation cases.
Although this is unfortunately the situation that most communities find themselves in, there are glimmers of hope. In this instance I'm going to provide a brief glimpse into our Tsuut'ina Nation justice model.
We have a signed agreement with the Province of Alberta for what is termed our peacemakers court, which is unique. Across this province there are no other communities that have this agreement, so we are unique. Our court is configured in a healing circle and is mandated to have an indigenous crown prosecutor, an indigenous judge and indigenous court workers.
It also has a peacemaker present, who oversees this process. The peacemaking process can be utilized if the offence falls under certain criteria. Some offences are ineligible—things like manslaughter or sexual assault. The individual can be recommended throughout the peacemaking process and can be recommended by the Crown, by the judge or by the defence, and the recommendation can occur any time throughout that process, pre-charge or post-charge.
The process requires the approval of the victim. It is also an agreement that the offender must enter into. It requires the offender to appear before a peacemaking tribunal. That tribunal will consist of formally mediated, trained community members and elders. It's designed to be restorative and less punitive, and it really does look at the root causes of crime.
This peacemaking process enables the justice system to address what I spoke to earlier—the root cause of crime—as well as both Criminal Code offences and nation-legislated offences, through a traditional value system that provides the community a voice in determining what an appropriate resolution may be.
Although there are still many challenges and still much work to be done in indigenous communities across the country, I want to thank the committee for giving me this opportunity. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
View Sylvie Bérubé Profile
BQ (QC)
Could you tell me about the training you provide for the members of your First Nations police service?
How would you compare it with the training that non-Indigenous police services receive?
Keith Blake
View Keith Blake Profile
Keith Blake
2021-05-06 12:41
Absolutely.
Again, I'll speak on the Tsuut'ina experience, because provincially that will change throughout the country. We have to follow all the legislative requirements that every police service in Alberta does, so we are no different. Our training needs to be at certain levels. We previously would send our officers to Depot, the RCMP training academy, but what we now have is an agreement with the Calgary Police Service whereby our officers will attend their Crowfoot training centre for the six-month duration. They can continue to live here on the nation and travel to and from the training academy in Calgary. It also involves an ongoing training program that we have here.
We have the same qualifications and recertifications. All the things we do are the same as every other service. We have the same accreditation; we have the same authorities as other police services, and we're proud of that. We don't want to be less than; we want to be equal to.
When it comes to the ongoing training, I'm very proud to say that our service also looks to the leaders within the culturally appropriate training. Again, we don't like looking at the culture training; that's a very sterile term. We look at the reframing of our relationships with indigenous peoples. We offer this training to all police services within the provinces, and in fact the country. We held one two weeks ago, for three days. We had the global indigenous model of the situation that Canada has faced. Then we move it down to each region of the country. We also have the lived experiences from people who have suffered as a result of the justice system, and all that we know of. We speak to elders. It's a three-day program, and it's holistic and fulsome.
Again, we host that training every two to three months, and we invite people across the country, law enforcement officials from everywhere, to take that on with us. That's an essential need, and it's something that's missing, I think, in many jurisdictions.
Keith Blake
View Keith Blake Profile
Keith Blake
2021-05-06 12:44
I think it has.... The way in which we engage with our possible candidates has been more virtual. Again, it hasn't diminished the interest in policing. As I said, one of the challenges we face is that there's a disparity in the service that first nation policing receives, comparatively.
Again, we don't want to be a feeder system for other police services, whereby we get them trained, and they're great, and we get them engaged, only for them to go somewhere else. Again, that very much needs some support from our funding partners to [Technical difficulty—Editor].
View Rachel Blaney Profile
NDP (BC)
Thank you, Chair.
I want to thank both of the witnesses for being here today.
I would like to start with you, Ms. Rempel. First of all, thank you so much for being here with us this morning.
The first thing I will say is, on the recommendations you talked about, please feel free to send those to the clerk, and we'll make sure they're included in the testimony.
The first question I have is around the land code.
It seemed to me from your presentation that when you spoke about that, it was a progressive process of moving toward self-governance. You moved out of something where the RCMP could come in and enforce; you moved to something that was promoted by the federal government, and now you're in a position where you can't enforce it. I just want to make sure I had that right.
Nicole Rempel
View Nicole Rempel Profile
Nicole Rempel
2021-05-06 12:45
Yes, that's correct.
I actually developed our land code law prior to being elected as chief. The big selling feature to members who are voting on whether or not to ratify a land code is that we have the ability to create our own laws, and they will be recognized in the courts and enforced by the RCMP. That's basically what the FNLM tells you. We go into this, telling our members that this is a great thing, and then when we get to the reality of it we find that, yes, we can create the laws, but we can't get the enforcement; we can't get the recognition in the courts without going through a costly process, like K'ómoks had to do.
View Rachel Blaney Profile
NDP (BC)
It was an expensive court case, and the representative from Indigenous Services Canada earlier today, it his presentation, called it a success. I'm just wondering if you would describe it as a success. Did this result in any ability of the RCMP to be able to come onto your nation and enforce this bylaw?
Nicole Rempel
View Nicole Rempel Profile
Nicole Rempel
2021-05-06 12:47
It's actually a law and not a bylaw. That's an important distinction, for sure.
I'm sorry. What was the question again?
View Rachel Blaney Profile
NDP (BC)
Was it a success, and has the court case made it possible for the RCMP to come and enforce your law?
Nicole Rempel
View Nicole Rempel Profile
Nicole Rempel
2021-05-06 12:47
Sadly, no. I would call it a success, absolutely. It is a precedent-setting case across Canada. I've been asked to speak all over Canada about this case. However, I'm facing this issue, literally today, with another trespass issue, and I don't have the confidence that the RCMP will be there to assist in the enforcement of our notice of trespass. Even though the previous orders and decision were that, ultimately, it needed to be enforced by the RCMP, I just don't feel confident that this is going to happen today.
View Rachel Blaney Profile
NDP (BC)
After this court case, did anyone from the federal government, after seeing this success, reach out and talk about how they could support creating solutions for your nation in terms of the enforcement of your laws?
Nicole Rempel
View Nicole Rempel Profile
Nicole Rempel
2021-05-06 12:48
No. I've been asked to speak by the Department of Justice in Ottawa, and I've done that with the lawyer several times, doing presentations on that case, but nobody has reached out to see how we could fix it, so today, when I have to go back up there to see if these trespassers have now left, there are no solutions in sight.
View Rachel Blaney Profile
NDP (BC)
Was there any mechanism for you and your nation to recoup any of the costs to the nation to take on this really important court case?
Nicole Rempel
View Nicole Rempel Profile
Nicole Rempel
2021-05-06 12:48
It's important to note that the First Nations Land Management Resource Centre ended up reimbursing us for the cost of that court case. Today we will find out if these trespassers are now leaving. If they haven't and we have to go to court again, I'm not sure the resource centre will feel as generous this time around.
I know that in speaking with the inspector here locally, with the RCMP, he's feeling like his hands are a bit tied because there isn't that direction from his higher-ups to enforce. They want to; it's just that they need that direction.
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