Interventions in Committee
 
 
 
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View Lisa Raitt Profile
CPC (ON)
View Lisa Raitt Profile
2019-07-25 11:34
The retired justice of the Supreme Court of Canada Louis LeBel sat on your committee this time and commented regarding the leak from the advisory process the last time, saying it was very serious because the process is a very delicate matter.
Did he bring up any concerns about confidentiality during this process?
View Lisa Raitt Profile
CPC (ON)
View Lisa Raitt Profile
2019-07-25 11:34
Did you take any steps to determine and ensure that there was no leak of confidentiality from your advisory committee? I know you said there wasn't, but I'm just wondering if you called anybody. Did you talk to the minister? Did you talk to PCO?
View Lisa Raitt Profile
CPC (ON)
View Lisa Raitt Profile
2019-07-25 11:35
That's tough for you to do, I would imagine, Ms. Campbell.
The reason I ask is that, of course, we are concerned about the leak and the way it happened. The Privacy Commissioner is concerned as well and is investigating the leak. His officials can't interview the minister's office or the Prime Minister's Office.
I'm wondering if he had a conversation with you to understand the confidentiality around the advisory committee.
View John McKay Profile
Lib. (ON)
Folks, we're trying to get back on our timeline here. We are waiting for our other witness, but in the meantime, we will proceed with RCMP captain Mark Flynn.
You will make your presentation, and if the folks from the Communications Security Establishment come, we'll make arrangements for them to speak as well.
The meeting is now public, by the way.
For those who are presenters, the real issue here is that the members wish to ask questions. Therefore, shorter presentations are preferable to longer ones.
With that, Superintendent Flynn, I'll ask you to make your presentation.
View David de Burgh Graham Profile
Lib. (QC)
It's a little harder to ask questions without an opening to work off.
The first question I have is this. If somebody calls the RCMP with a suspicion of data theft complaint, how does the RCMP treat that from the get-go?
View David de Burgh Graham Profile
Lib. (QC)
At what point does something become federal? If something is provincial jurisdiction but affects multiple provinces, does each province have to deal with it separately or is the RCMP able to step in at that point?
View David de Burgh Graham Profile
Lib. (QC)
In the case of the incident we're here to discuss, which is obviously a major incident, is the RCMP being kept apprised of what's happening, even if it's not their investigation?
View Francis Drouin Profile
Lib. (ON)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Flynn, thank you for being here. I know that you will not comment on the ongoing investigation, but as a member of Parliament who represents a lot of members who have been impacted—I have been impacted as well—I am looking more at the potential impacts of fraud.
I know that many Canadians get fraudulent calls from CRA. I myself called back somebody who pretended they were you guys. They wanted to collect some money for a particular person. They were demanding. They were really adamant. They gave a callback number, and I provided that callback number to the police. Is that something you would advise Canadians to do where obviously the RCMP, or your local police force, is the first point of contact?
View Francis Drouin Profile
Lib. (ON)
Just from your experience, and learning from cases of fraud, we know that some of them may have my social insurance number. They may have my email address, as well as my civic address. It could be a very convincing case for them to pretend that they're either a government official or from some type of financial institution. What would you advise Canadians on the best way to protect themselves?
View Pierre Paul-Hus Profile
CPC (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Flynn. I'll come back to you in a few moments.
The leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, Andrew Scheer, asked me to contact my fellow committee members to convene this meeting. He sent an open letter to the media on July 12, and I'd like to paraphrase a few paragraphs.
Like the vast majority of Quebecers and all Canadians, I am worried about the the security of our information technology systems, identity theft and privacy protection.
This is a very serious situation, and I understand the fear and anxiety of the victims, whose personal information, including their social insurance number, was stolen. They are worried about how this will affect them in the future. They will have to spend considerable time and energy dealing with this.
It is reassuring to see that the leadership at Desjardins Group is taking the matter seriously and working hard to protect and reassure members. The federal government, too, has a responsibility and duty to support all victims of identity theft by learning from the past and strengthening cybersecurity in partnership with all stakeholders across the industry.…
I want the victims of this data breach, as well as all Canadians, to know that we stand with them and that a future Conservative government would be committed to tackling the privacy challenges confronting Canadians.
View Pierre Paul-Hus Profile
CPC (QC)
We want to be very clear about what an important and serious issue this is—so important, in fact, that we felt it was necessary for the committee to meet on this sunny July 15.
Mr. Flynn, you answered the questions of my Liberal colleagues, but I find the RCMP's response to the situation rather weak. Allow me to explain. Some 2.9 million Desjardins account holders are very worried right now. About 2.5 million are Quebecers, and 300,000 are in Ontario and other parts of the country. For the past three weeks, constituents have been contacting our offices non-stop, and the government has yet to respond. The reason for today's emergency meeting is to figure out what the federal government can do to help affected Canadians.
You said the RCMP isn't really involved, but can't it do something given that it has its own cybersecurity unit, works with organizations like Interpol and has access to other resources? I don't want to interfere in a police investigation, but we heard that people's personal information was being sold abroad. Isn't there technology or techniques the RCMP can use to detect potential fraud?
View Pierre Paul-Hus Profile
CPC (QC)
I understand what you're saying about the investigation probably being conducted by the Sûreté du Québec, but what the Conservatives and NDP want to know is this. What can the RCMP do about the personal information of 2.9 million people that was handed over to criminals? I don't want to discuss the investigation; I want to know whether you have resources. If you don't, we want to know. That's why we are here today. If personal data was sold on the international market, neither the Quebec provincial police nor Laval police is going to deal with it. I think it falls under RCMP jurisdiction.
View Matthew Dubé Profile
NDP (QC)
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here today, Mr. Flynn.
It's important that we talk about this situation because, as my colleague pointed out, people are worried. It's essential that we find out more about the federal government's capacity to take action and the means we have at our disposal, especially since the committee just wrapped up a study on cybersecurity in the financial sector before Parliament rose in June. I'll touch on some of the things the committee looked at in its study because they pertain to the matter at hand.
I'd like to follow up on some of your answers. First of all, it is rumoured that personal data was sold to criminal organizations outside Quebec and Canada. I know you can't comment on this case specifically, but at what point does the RCMP step in to assist the highly competent people at such organizations as the Sûreté du Québec when a case involves a criminal organization operating outside Canada that the RCMP is already monitoring?
View Matthew Dubé Profile
NDP (QC)
Thank you.
You said local police forces, the Sûreté du Québec and the Ontario Provincial Police were very competent when it came to dealing with cybersecurity issues and had significant powers. Does the RCMP have special expertise or information that could help them?
The reason I ask is that the government touted the consolidation of the cybersecurity capacity of the Communications Security Establishment, or CSE, the RCMP and all the other agencies concerned as a way to ensure information was shared and everyone was on the same page. I'll be asking Mr. Boucher, of the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security, about this as well when we hear from him.
Do you engage municipal or provincial police, as the case may be, in the same way?
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