//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1300)[English] I'd just like to welcome everybody here to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting number 160. We are dealing with committee business and two motions: the first from Mr. Kent and the second from Mr. Angus. I would like, first of all, to welcome some members with us today who aren't usual members of the ethics committee. Ms. May was supposed to be here but I don't see her yet. We're going to welcome her here today, as well as Ms. Raitt, Mr. Poilievre, Ms. Ramsey and Mr. Weir. I think that's everybody. While the extra members are not members of this committee, as a courtesy we typically give guests the right to speak. Having said that, I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Kent.Committee businessEthics and ethical issuesPolitical influenceReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1305)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.We have a speaking order: Ms. Raitt, Mr. Angus and Mr. Poilievre.Ms. Raitt.PeterKentHon.ThornhillLisaRaittHon.Milton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]The speaking order is Mr. Angus, Mr. Poilievre, Ms. May, Mr. Weir and Ms. Ramsey.Go ahead, Mr. Angus.LisaRaittHon.MiltonCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]Just to be clear, he said he'd make himself available on short notice. Based on some questions from all parties here, he has made himself available today by video conference so he is standing by if a motion is passed.Committee businessEthics and ethical issuesPolitical influenceReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English] Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next is Mr. Poilievre.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1325)[English]Thank you, Mr. Poilievre.Next up we have Ms. May. PierrePoilievreHon.CarletonElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1330)[English]Thank you, Ms. May.Next up is Mr. Weir.ElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsErinWeirRegina—Lewvan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1330)[English]Thank you, Mr. Weir.Next we will go to Ms. Ramsey.ErinWeirRegina—LewvanTraceyRamseyEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1335)[English]I still have two others to speak to this. We have to go through the list. If the people on the speakers list want to give up their time to go to a vote, then that's a possibility. I don't see them willing to do that right now.I have Mr. Gourde next to speak, and then Ms. Raitt again. Go ahead, Mr. Gourde. TraceyRamseyEssexJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1340)[English] Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up, we have Ms. Raitt.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreLisaRaittHon.Milton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1350)[English]Thank you, Ms. Raitt.Next up is Mr. MacKinnon. LisaRaittHon.MiltonStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1355)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.It's not really a point of order.Mr. MacKinnon, proceed.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1355)[English]Mr. MacKinnon, are you able to table that for the committee today?Committee businessEthics and ethical issuesPolitical influenceReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinPierrePoilievreHon.CarletonStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1355)[English]We'll continue with Mr. MacKinnon.StevenMacKinnonGatineauStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus. That's debate.We'll go back to Mr. MacKinnon to finish his statement.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]Mr. MacKinnon, to be clear, the chair has the discretion to hear points of order and debate—StevenMacKinnonGatineauStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]—and has a responsibility to keep things in order.StevenMacKinnonGatineauStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]I hope the committee will acknowledge the chair and his role in keeping things in order.StevenMacKinnonGatineauStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]We'll go next to Mr. Erskine-Smith. Go ahead.StevenMacKinnonGatineauNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1410)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Go ahead, quickly, Mr. Angus.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1410)[English]Thank you for the clarification.We do have a speakers list again, and we have Mr. Poilievre.Go ahead.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1415)[English]Thank you again, Mr. Poilievre. Next up is Mr. Angus.PierrePoilievreHon.CarletonCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1415)[English]Okay, Mr. Angus. We have two more speakers. We have Mr. Kent and then Ms. Raitt. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1420)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.I have just been signalled that the other speaker who was going to speak will not, so we can go to the vote on the motion.PeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1420)[English]It will be a recorded vote. The motion is as follows:That, given the unprecedented nature of the Trudeau II Report, the Committee invite the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner to brief the Committee on his report, and that the Committee invite any further witnesses as required based on the testimony of the commissioner.Committee businessEthics and ethical issuesPolitical influenceReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinPeterKentHon.ThornhillPierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1420)[English]Thank you for bringing that up, Mr. Poilievre.We'll list the names here. Go ahead, Mr. Clerk, if you want to list them for Mr. Poilievre's question just for clarity's sake.PierrePoilievreHon.CarletonMichaelMacPherson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1420)[English]And me if there is a tie. Is that clear, Mr. Poilievre?Committee businessEthics and ethical issuesPolitical influenceReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinMichaelMacPhersonPierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1420)[English]We are good to proceed with the vote.(Motion negatived: nays 5, yeas 4)The Chair: Mr. Kent's motion is defeated.That said, we have a motion from Mr. Angus still to discuss.Go ahead, Mr. Angus.Committee businessCommittee witnessesConflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerDecisions in committeeEthics and ethical issuesMotionsPolitical influenceRecorded divisionsReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinPierrePoilievreHon.CarletonCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1420)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Angus, please.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1445)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus, as always. Next up is Mr. Erskine-Smith. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1445)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up is Ms. May. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1450)[English]Thank you, Ms. May.I have two more speakers, Mr. Kent and Ms. Ramsey. If anybody else wishes to speak, we have about an hour and seven minutes left.Mr. Kent, go ahead.ElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1450)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Ms. Ramsey, go ahead.PeterKentHon.ThornhillTraceyRamseyEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1500)[English]Thank you, Ms. Ramsey.Next up we have Mr. Angus.TraceyRamseyEssexCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1505)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus. We have Ms. Raitt, and then Mr. Weir.Ms. Raitt, go ahead. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayLisaRaittHon.Milton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]Thank you, Ms. Raitt.Mr. Weir.LisaRaittHon.MiltonErinWeirRegina—Lewvan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English] Thank you, Mr. Weir, for that.I have no other people on the speakers list.Are we ready—ErinWeirRegina—LewvanPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1510)[English]We'll have a recorded vote.(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 3)The Chair: Ms. Raitt, do you have a comment?Chin, BenClerk of the Privy CouncilCommittee businessCommittee witnessesDecisions in committeeEthics and ethical issuesMorneau, BillMotionsPolitical influenceRecorded divisionsReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinPeterKentHon.ThornhillLisaRaittHon.Milton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Ms. Raitt, there's a point of order.StevenMacKinnonGatineauStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Mr. MacKinnon, it's one of those things in committee. It's nice to do, but it's not required that she give notice of her motion.The motion has come up on the floor today. She is therefore in order to present that motion.Committee businessEthics and ethical issuesPolitical influenceReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinLisaRaittHon.MiltonStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Ms. Raitt, do you have it in French?Committee businessEthics and ethical issuesPolitical influenceReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinStevenMacKinnonGatineauLisaRaittHon.Milton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]To be in order as well it's not required that it be in French. She is completely in order to present her motion as she is stating. Continue on.Is this a point of order, Mr. Angus?Committee businessEthics and ethical issuesPolitical influenceReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinLisaRaittHon.MiltonCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Ms. Raitt, please finish, if you would.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayLisaRaittHon.Milton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Ms. Raitt, can you say that one more time for the record?LisaRaittHon.MiltonLisaRaittHon.Milton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Exactly.LisaRaittHon.MiltonLisaRaittHon.Milton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Thank you, Ms. Raitt.I have Mr. Angus to speak to the motion.LisaRaittHon.MiltonCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.I'll go to Mr. Erskine-Smith.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.We'll go back to Ms. Raitt.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkLisaRaittHon.Milton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English] The committee would have to agree to have that motion withdrawn. Is it the will of the committee to do that?You'd like to vote on it.Is there any further discussion on the motion?LisaRaittHon.MiltonStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1515)[English]It's a recorded vote.(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 2)The Chair: Is there any further discussion today? I believe we've exhausted the motions and are ready to head home. Thank you, again, for coming to Ottawa.We're adjourned. Committee businessCommittee requesting documentsDecisions in committeeEthics and ethical issuesMotionsPolitical influenceRecorded divisionsReferences to membersTrudeau, JustinStevenMacKinnonGatineau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1545)[English] We'll call the meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting 157. Today's topic is the ethical aspects of artificial intelligence and algorithms.We have with us today, as an individual, Brent Mittelstadt, research fellow, Oxford Internet Institute, University of Oxford, by teleconference. From the Canadian Association of Radiologists, we have Nicholas Neuheimer, chief executive officer; and An Tang, chair, artificial intelligence working group. From the Information Technology Association of Canada, we have André Leduc, vice-president, government relations and policy.We do have some business to follow, so we're going to try to get this done as soon as we can. We're giving you a full hour. We just had votes. You have our apologies for that, but it's something out of our control.We'll start off right away with Mr. Mittelstadt. Go ahead for 10 minutes.AlgorithmsArtificial intelligenceBrentMittelstadt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you, Mr. Mittelstadt.Next up is Mr. Tang. Go ahead for 10 minutes. BrentMittelstadtAnTang//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you for your testimony.We'll move on next to Mr. Leduc. Go ahead for 10 minutes.AnTangAndréLeduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Mr. Leduc, you're two minutes over. We had 10 minutes for your presentation.AndréLeducAndréLeduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Thank you, Mr. Leduc. I apologize for constraining AI into 10 minutes. It's more than challenging, I can imagine. You did a pretty good job.Anyway, now we have Mr. Saini for seven minutes.AndréLeducRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]You're way past time. Thank you.I have to go on to Mr. Kent for seven minutes.AndréLeducPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent. We're well past time.AnTangPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Mr. Boulerice is next, for seven minutes. PeterKentHon.ThornhillAlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-Patrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Would anybody like to tackle that question?AlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieAlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-Patrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English] I'm just going to explain that we were going to do some committee business in about five minutes, but we've talked with the vice-chairs and all parties, and we're going to push that committee business to next Tuesday, if you can stick around until five o'clock. Is that something you can do? Okay. We'll take it right to five with questions.We'll go with Nate for seven minutes.AnTangNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]We'll go to Monsieur Gourde for five minutes.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Last up for five minutes is Monsieur Picard.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Okay, Monsieur Picard, we're over time.MichelPicardMontarvilleMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]I'm sorry, everybody. I know we could keep going on this. I think the conversation today was another good one on the really cool aspects of technology and where technology is going, but also the challenges of privacy and security that Monsieur Picard brought up today. That's our challenge.Thanks for appearing, and hopefully we can have you back again to have a more fulsome discussion.The meeting is adjourned.MichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (0830)[English] I call to order this meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. This is meeting 155.This is the last of our international grand committee meetings this week, the International Grand Committee on Big Data, Privacy and Democracy. With us today from Amazon, we have Mark Ryland, director of security engineering, office of the chief information officer of the Amazon web services. From Microsoft Canada Inc., we have Marlene Floyd, national director of corporate affairs, and John Weigelt, national technology officer. From the Mozilla Foundation, we have Alan Davidson, vice-president of global policy, trust and security.From Apple Inc., we have Erik Neuenschwander. He is manager of user privacy.We're going to get into your testimony. I wanted to say that the CEOs were invited today, and it's unfortunate that they didn't come. Again, as I've said to many of you just prior to the meeting, this is supposed to be a constructive meeting on how to make it better, and some of the proposals that your companies have right from the top are good ones, and that's why we wanted to hear them today and have the CEOs answer our questions, but we do appreciate that you're here.We'll start off with Mr. Ryland for 10 minutes.DemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionMarkRyland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0840)[English]Thank you, Mr. Ryland.Next up is Microsoft. Will it be Ms. Floyd or Mr. Weigelt?MarkRylandMarleneFloyd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0840)[English]Okay. Go ahead.MarleneFloydJohnWeigelt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0845)[English]Thank you, Ms. Floyd.We'll go next to Mr. Davidson from Mozilla.MarleneFloydAlanDavidson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0855)[English]Thank you, Mr. Davidson.Last up, from Apple Inc., we have Erik Neuenschwander, please. You have 10 minutes.AlanDavidsonErikNeuenschwander//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0900)[English]Thank you, Mr. Neuenschwander.We'll start with questions from committee members. My colleague Damian Collins will be here shortly. He regrets he had another thing to attend to.We'll start with Mr. Erskine-Smith for five minutes.ErikNeuenschwanderNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0910)[English]We will go to Peter next, for five minutes.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0915)[English] Go ahead, Mr. Angus, for five minutes.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0920)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.We'll go next to our delegation.We'll start off with Singapore. Go ahead, for five minutes.MarkRylandSunXueling//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0925)[English]We'll go next to our Ireland delegation and Ms. Naughton.SunXuelingHildegardeNaughton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0940)[English]Thank you, Mr. Graham.We'll go to my co-chair, Mr. Collins.Go ahead with your opening comments. It's good to have you back.David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]Mr. Davidson wants to respond. DamianCollinsAlanDavidson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]Yes.AlanDavidsonAlanDavidson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]We'll move on next to Mr. Gourde.I see a lot of hands going up. There's going to be lots of time for everybody today. Go ahead, Mr. Gourde, for five minutes.AlanDavidsonJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0955)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up, from the U.K., we have Mr. Ian Lucas.AlanDavidsonIanLucas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0955)[English]We'll move next to Mr Lawless for five minutes.MarkRylandJamesLawless//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1005)[English]We're actually way over time. The chair is taking the second round, and I already have you as number one on our second round, Hildegarde. Once we get through everybody, we'll start through that next round. It shouldn't be very long.We'll go to Ms. Vandenbeld now for five minutes.HildegardeNaughtonAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1015)[English]We will go to Ms. Jo Stevens from the U.K.AlanDavidsonJoStevens//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1020)[English]Thank you, Jo.We'll go next to Raj Saini for five minutes.JoStevensRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1025)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Last up will be Mr. Baylis.What's going to happen is Mr. Baylis will finish, and then we're going to start the rounds all over again. Delegations will all start from the top again, just to be clear.Mr. Baylis, go ahead for five minutes.RajSainiKitchener CentreFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1030)[English]You do if you have a very quick, 30-second comment.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1035)[English]Thank you.Thank you, Mr. Baylis.It hasn't come up yet, so that's why I'm going to ask the question. We're here because of a scandal called Cambridge Analytica and a social media company called Facebook. We wanted to differentiate between who you are. You're not social media; social media was here yesterday. You're big data, etc.I have a comment specifically for Apple. This is why we wanted Tim Cook here. He has made some really interesting comments. I'll read exactly what he said:First, the right to have personal data minimized. Companies should challenge themselves to strip identifying information from customer data or avoid collecting it in the first place. Second, the right to knowledge—to know what data is being collected and why. Third, the right to access. Companies should make it easy for you to access, correct and delete your personal data. And fourth, the right to data security, without which trust is impossible. That's a very strong statement. Apple, from your perspective—and I'm also going to ask Mozilla—how do we or how would you fix Facebook?DemocracyInformation collectionInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesJohnWeigeltErikNeuenschwander//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1035)[English]To me, changing legislation around this is very difficult, given all the parameters that are around us. It might be simpler for somebody like Tim Cook and an ideology that considers users as paramount. It might be simpler for Apple to do this than for legislators around the world to try to pull this off. However, we're giving it a soldier's try. We're definitely trying. Mr. Davidson, do you have any comment on how we fix Facebook?DemocracyInformation collectionInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesErikNeuenschwanderAlanDavidson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]Thank you for your answer. I'm getting signals for questions again. We'll start with my co-chair and we'll go through our normal sequencing. You'll have time. Don't worry. We'll go to Mr. Collins to start it off.AlanDavidsonDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1045)[English]We'll go next to Mr. Erskine-Smith for five minutes.MarkRylandNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]Please go very quickly, because I know we're trying to squeeze everybody in.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]Now we'll go to Mr. Angus for five minutes.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English]I would like to highlight what Mr. Angus said. This is the reason we asked Mr. Bezos to come. He can answer those kinds of questions before this grand committee. He's exactly the person who could have answered all our questions. We wouldn't have kept anybody off the panel, but certainly we wanted people who could give us comprehensive answers with regard to the whole package.I will go next to Mr. Lucas from the U.K.CompetitionDemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayIanLucas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[English]Thank you, Mr. Lucas. We have to move on.Next is Ms. Naughton, from Ireland.IanLucasHildegardeNaughton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Lawless.HildegardeNaughtonJamesLawless//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Next we'll go to Singapore for five minutes.JamesLawlessSunXueling//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Thank you. We'll go to Anita next. Go ahead.SunXuelingAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English]Thank you, Ms. Vandenbeld.I have an explanation of what's going to happen. We have a few more comments, and then we're going to have some final closing comments of the IGC from our vice-chairs, my co-chair and then me. Then we'll be done. It might go a little past 11:30, but it will be very close.I have Mr. Kent for five minutes.AnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—NepeanPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1125)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Last in the line of questions is David. Go ahead, Mr. Graham.PeterKentHon.ThornhillDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1125)[English]Thank you, David.I did neglect Jo from the U.K., and—David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleJamesLawless//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1125)[English]All right. Thank you. We will see you again in November of this year.Mr. James Lawless: Absolutely. The Chair: Give our best to Ms. Naughton. Thank you for coming.DemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionJamesLawlessJamesLawless//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1125)[English]Go ahead, Jo.JamesLawlessJoStevens//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1130)[English]Thank you, Jo.Now we'll get into our closing comments from our vice-chairs and then the co-chair.Nate, would you start with your 60 seconds, please?JoStevensNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next we will go to Charlie.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English] Thank you, Charlie.Go ahead, Damian.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English] I'll speak to the panellists first and then get into some closing comments.I want to encourage you. You had promised, especially Mr. Ryland, about giving us a lot of the documents that you didn't.... Various commenters didn't have all the information that we were asking for. I would implore you to provide the information we requested to the clerk next to me so we can get a comprehensive answer for the committee. We'll provide it to all the delegates here.Something that's really going to stick with me is a comment by Roger McNamee about the term "voodoo dolls”. I watch my kids. I have four children. One is 21, one is 19, one is 17 and one is 15. I watch them becoming more and more addicted to these phones. I see work done by our colleagues in London about the addictive capabilities of these online devices. I wondered where are they going with this. You see that the whole drive from surveillance capitalism, the whole business model, is to keep them glued to that phone, despite the bad health it brings to those children, to our kids. It's all for a buck. We're responsible for doing something about that. We care about our kids, and we don't want to see them turned into voodoo dolls controlled by the almighty dollar and capitalism.Since we like the devices so much, I think we still have some work to do to make sure we still provide access. We like technology and we've said that before. Technology is not the problem; it's the vehicle. We have to do something about what's causing these addictive practices.I'll say thanks and offer some last comments.Thanks to our clerk. We'll give him a round of applause for pulling it off. He has that look on his face because events like this don't come off without their little issues. We deal with them on a real-time basis, so it's challenging. Again, I want to say a special thanks to Mike for getting it done. Thanks also to my staff—over to my left, Kera, Cindy, Micah, Kaitlyn—for helping with the backroom stuff too. They're going to be very much de-stressing after this.I'll give one shout-out before we finally close—oh, I forgot the analysts. Sorry. I'm always forgetting our poor analysts. Please stand.Thank you for everything.Thanks to the interpreters as well. There were three languages at the back, so thank you for being with us the whole week.I'll give a little shout-out to our friend Christopher Wylie, despite being upstaged by sandwiches. I don't know if somebody saw the tweets from Christopher Wylie: “Democracy aside, Zuckerberg also missed out on some serious sandwich action.” He suggested that I mail the leftovers to Facebook HQ. Maybe that's the way we get the summons delivered into the right hands.I want to thank all the media for giving this the attention we think it deserves. This is our future and our kids' future.Again, thanks to all the panellists who flew across the globe, especially our U.K. members, who are our brothers and sisters across the water. Singapore is still here as well. Thank you for coming.Have a great day.We'll see you in Ireland in November.The meeting is adjourned.DemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English] We'll call to order the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics for meeting 154, an by extension, the international grand committee on big data, privacy and democracy.I don't need to go through the list of countries that we have already mentioned, but I will go through our witnesses very briefly. From the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, we have Mr. Daniel Therrien, the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. As an individual, we have Joseph A. Cannataci, special rapporteur on the right to privacy for the United Nations.We are having some challenges with the live video feed from Malta. We'll keep working through that. I'm told by the clerk that we may have to go to an audio feed to get the conversation. We will do what we have to do. Also we'd like to welcome the chair of the United States Federal Election Commission, Ellen Weintraub.First of all, I would like to speak to the meeting's order and structure. It will be very similar to that of our first meeting this morning. We'll have one question per delegation. The Canadian group will have one from each party, and we'll go through until we run out of time with different representatives to speak to the issue. I hope that makes sense. It will make sense more as we go along. I would like to thank the members who came to our question period today. I personally thank the Speaker for recognizing the delegation. I'll give Mr. Collins the opportunity for to open it up. Mr. Collins.DemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Shall we have statements first? DamianCollinsDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]We'll have opening statements. We'll start with Mr. Therrien. Go ahead for 10 minutes. DamianCollinsDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you once again, Mr. Therrien.We're going to double-check whether Mr. Cannataci is able to stream. No.We'll go next to Ms. Weintraub for 10 minutes.DanielTherrienEllenWeintraub//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]I'm sorry, Ms. Weintraub. We just heard the comments. He's available to speak.My apologies, Ms. Weintraub. I guess we have him on, so we'll go ahead.Mr. Cannataci, go ahead for 10 minutes.EllenWeintraubJoseph A.Cannataci//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you, Mr. Cannataci.We'll go now to Ms. Weintraub. I just want to explain what the flashing lights are. In the Canadian Parliament the flashing lights signal that votes are to happen in about 30 minutes. We have an agreement among our parties that one member from each party will stay, and the rest are clear to go and vote. The meeting will continue with the rest of us. We won't stop. It isn't a fire alarm. We're good to go.Joseph A.CannataciCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]You probably should stay. It's been cleared that we have one member for—CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]I just wanted to make it clear that's what's going on.We'll go to Ms. Weintraub now for 10 minutes.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayEllenWeintraub//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you, Ms. Weintraub.First of all we'll go to Mr. Collins.EllenWeintraubDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English] Thank you, Mr. Cannataci. We're over time and we have some members who need to go to a vote. Therefore, I need to get to Ms. Vandenbeld as soon as I can.Joseph A.CannataciBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: I will try to get back around if you need a more fulsome answer. Ms. Vandenbeld.BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English] Thank you, Ms. Vandenbeld. That's your time. We'll go over to Mr. Angus for five minutes. Joseph A.CannataciCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus. You're out of time.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]We'll have some more time around the hop, so I'd better get going here.We'll go next to Singapore for five minutes. Mr. Tong.CharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you.We'll go next to Ms. Naughton from Ireland.HildegardeNaughton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Yes, you bet. JamesLawlessJamesLawless//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Next up for five minutes is Mr. Zimmermann from Germany.EllenWeintraubJensZimmermann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]You have about 30 seconds.EllenWeintraubJensZimmermann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you.We're going to get back to our parliamentarians, now that they've returned from voting. We'll go to Mr. Kent for five minutes.EllenWeintraubPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you, Ms. Weintraub.Some of the membership of the committee are not going to ask questions, so we have a bit more time than you might expect. If you do want to ask another question, please signal the chair, and I'll add you in at the end of the sequence.Next up, we have the member from Estonia. Go ahead.PeterKentHon.ThornhillKeitPentus-Rosimannus//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]You're good? Thank you.We're going to start the cycle again, just so you know. We'll start with Nate, and then we'll go to the next parliamentarian, so it will be Nate, Ian and James.Go ahead, Nate.EllenWeintraubNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.I want to speak to the order of questions. This is what I have: Ian, James, David de Burgh Graham, Jo, Jacques, Charlie and Peter. To close out, we have Mr. Collins again, for some final words. That's what we have so far. If there is anybody else who wants to ask a question, please put your hand up. I'll try to get you added to that list, but it looks like we're tight for time.Now we're going to Mr. Lucas for five minutes.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkIanLucas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Mr. Lucas, could you could make it real quick? I hate to cut you off. You've come a long way.IanLucasIanLucas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Lucas.Next up, we have James from Ireland.IanLucasJamesLawless//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]Thank you James.Next we'll go to Mr. Graham. Go ahead for five minutes.JamesLawlessDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English] We have Mr. Picard, who will share the rest of the time with—DanielTherrienMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you.The last three are Jo, Jacques, Charlie, and then we'll finish up.DanielTherrienJoStevens//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]You have two minutes, Jo. Ms. Jo Stevens: That's good.The Chair: Okay.Next up, we have Monsieur Gourde. Go ahead, for five minutes.JoStevensJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Thank you.We'll go to you, Mr. Angus, for five minutes, with Mr. Collins following you, and then me. Joseph A.CannataciCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Last, Mr. Collins, go ahead.DanielTherrienDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]Mr. Therrien.EllenWeintraubDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]I would like to finish up with one thing. We've been talking about the subpoena to Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg for some time and, as chair of this committee, I will say we did our very best to make sure they attended today. We're limited by what's in this book and the laws of our country, and yet the platforms seem to operate in their own bubbles without any restriction within our jurisdictions, and that's the frustration for us as legislators in this place.Again, thank you for appearing today and thank you for assisting us, especially Commissioner Therrien, for your work in assisting this committee. We look forward to keeping those conversations going in the future.I have some housekeeping aspects of what's going to happen tonight. Dinner is going to be at 7 p.m., downstairs in room 035. This is room 225, so two floors down will be where dinner is. It's at 7 p.m.Just to be clear, each delegation is to give a brief presentation on what your country has done and is looking at doing to fix this problem. I'll be talking with my vice-chairs about how we're going to deliver what we are doing in Canada, but I challenge you to have that ready. Again, it's going to be brief. It can be informal. It doesn't need to be a big written presentation. I see some very serious looks on faces wondering, “What did we just get ourselves into?”More important, I see a lot of tired faces. I think we're all ready just to go back to the hotel for about an hour's rest and then we'll reconvene at 7 p.m. I think that's all I have to say for now, but again we'll see you back at 7 p.m.DanielTherrienCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1735)[English] Thank you for that. For the record, we will be holding the other platforms to account tomorrow morning at 8:30.We'll see you tonight at seven o'clock.CharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1035)[English] We'll bring to order meeting 153 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics and by extension the international grand committee on big data, privacy and democracy. We will have countries' representatives speak as well. We'll start off with my co-chair, Mr. Damian Collins from the U.K. The way it will work structurally is that we'll go through the delegations, one representative per country initially and then the second representative. You each should have your own five-minute time slot exclusive to yourself.Before we begin, Mr. Angus has a comment.DemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.For the ex officio members of the committee, we have a motion before our committee that we will have to vote on, so there will be some discussion.Is there any discussion from any other members about the motion?Mr. Kent.Committee witnessesDemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetMotionsPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]There was a discussion previously about no substantive motions being brought before the committee. That said, with all agreement at the table here, I think we can agree to have that heard—and we are hearing it today—and voted on. Do we have...? I see all in favour of having that motion moved before us. Are there any other comments about the motion?Mr. Lucas.Committee witnessesDemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetMotionsPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesPeterKentHon.ThornhillIanLucas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]Thank you, Mr. Lucas.Mr. Erskine-Smith.IanLucasNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English] Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Are there any further comments on the motion?Frankly, to answer your question, being the chair of this committee on both levels, the international and our ethics committee, it's abhorrent that he's not here today and that Ms. Sandberg is not here today. It was very clearly communicated to them that they were to appear today before us. A summons was issued, which is already an unusual act for a committee. I think it's only fitting that there be an ongoing summons. As soon as either Mr. Zuckerberg or Ms. Sandberg step foot into our country, they will be served and expected to appear before our committee. If they choose not to, then the next step will be to hold them in contempt.I think the words are strong, Mr. Angus, and I applaud you for your motion.If there is not any further discussion on the motion, we'll go to the vote.(Motion agreed to)The Chair: Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next, we'll go to the platforms. We'll start with Facebook, go to Google, and then.... I'll mention the names. With Facebook Inc., we have Kevin Chan, Global Policy Director for Canada, and Neil Potts, Global Policy Director. With Google LLC, we have Derek Slater, Global Director of Information Policy; and with Google Canada, Colin McKay, Head, Government Affairs and Public Policy. From Twitter Inc., we have Carlos Monje, Director of Public Policy, and Michele Austin, Head, Government and Public Policy, Twitter Canada.I would like to say that it wasn't just the CEOs of Facebook who were invited today. The CEOs of Google were invited. The CEO of Twitter was invited. We are more than disappointed that they as well chose not to show up.We'll start off with Mr. Chan, for seven minutes.Thank you.Committee witnessesDemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetMotionsPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkKevinChan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chan. Next up, we'll go to Mr. Slater, with Google. KevinChanDerekSlater//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1100)[English]Thank you.Next up we'll go to Twitter. I believe Mr. Monje is going to be speaking. Go ahead.DerekSlaterCarlosMonje//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[English]Thank you.First of all, we will go to my co-chair, Damian Collins, and then the sequence will follow. You each have five minutes. Try to keep it as crisp as you possibly can.Mr. Collins.CarlosMonjeDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Thank you, Mr. Collins. We'll go next to Mr. Erskine-Smith.Go ahead, for five minutes.DamianCollinsNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English]Actually, Mr. Chan....Mr. Chan, the priority goes to members of the committee, so if you wish to keep speaking, you need to hear. KevinChanNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1120)[English]Thanks.We need to move on.We will go next to Monsieur Gourde for five minutes.KevinChanJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1125)[English]Thank you, Monsieur Gourde.Next up is Mr. Angus.KevinChanCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1130)[English]Thank you.We'll go on next to Mr. Tong from Singapore.KevinChan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]Thank you, Mr. Tong. We'll have to go on to the next question.We'd like to welcome our delegation from Ireland. They just landed this morning. Welcome to our committee.We'll start off our first five minutes with Hildegarde Naughton.HildegardeNaughton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1140)[English]Thank you, Ms. Naughton. We are actually at time, so we have to move on to the next delegate. My apologies. Time is short.For the next question, we go to the Republic of Germany.ColinMcKayJensZimmermann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Next we will go to the Republic of Estonia. Go ahead, for five minutes.DerekSlaterKeitPentus-Rosimannus//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Thank you.I want to give a brief explanation of what's going on behind me. Your chairs have elected to have a working lunch. Feel free to come up and grab something to eat, and we'll continue with testimony all the way through our lunch.Next up, we have Mexico. Go ahead for five minutes.NeilPottsAntares GuadalupeVázquez AlatorreHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]Give a short answer, please.Antares GuadalupeVázquez AlatorreHon.CarlosMonje//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]Thank you.Next up, we'll go to the Kingdom of Morocco for five minutes. CarlosMonjeMohammedOuzzine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chan.Next up, we will go to Ecuador for five minutes.KevinChanElizabethCabezas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]We'll move on to the last on our list and then we'll start the sequence all over again.To Saint Lucia, please go ahead for five minutes. CarlosMonjeAndyDanielHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]With respect, Mr. Potts, I'm going to step in here.With respect, it is not your decision to select whether you're going to come or not. The committee has asked Mr. Zuckerberg and Ms. Sandberg to come, plain and simple, to appear before our international grand committee. We represent 400 million people, so when we ask those two individuals to come, that's exactly what we expect. It shows a little bit of distain from Mark Zuckerberg and Ms. Sandberg to simply choose not to come. It just shows there's a lack of an understanding about what we do, as legislators, as the member from Saint Lucia mentioned. The term “blowing us off”, I think, can be brought up again, but it needs to be stated that they were invited to appear and they were expected to appear and they're choosing not to. To use you two individuals in their stead is simply not acceptable.I'll go back to Mr. Daniel from Saint Lucia.Committee witnessesDemocracyDisinformationInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesNeilPottsNeilPotts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]I would argue, Mr. Potts, if that were the case, they would be seated in those two chairs right there. Continue on.Committee witnessesDemocracyDisinformationInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesNeilPottsNeilPotts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Thank you.It was just brought to my attention, too, the inconsistency in your testimony, Mr. Potts. On one hand, Mr. Collins had asked you about the Pelosi video, which you're not going to pull down. Then within 30 minutes or within an hour you just answered the member from Saint Lucia that it would come down immediately. I just would like you to be completely aware that it's expected that you completely tell the truth to this committee at this time and not to be inconsistent in your testimony.Committee witnessesDemocracyDisinformationInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesNeilPottsNeilPotts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English] I don't think it's any clearer to any of us in the room, but I'll move on to the next person. We'll go to Mr. Baylis, for five minutes.Committee witnessesDemocracyDisinformationInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesNeilPottsFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English] Thank you, Mr. Baylis. Unfortunately, we have to move on. Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent.KevinChanPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1230)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Just so that you're aware, I want to remind you all about the sequence of questioning. We're going one question per delegation first, through the countries. You can see how the pattern has been established. Then there are going to be different rounds until all the members have had a chance to ask a question. For example, the next member in the delegation would ask the next question, etc. Right now we have the second member of the delegation for the U.K., Mr. Lucas. He will be asking the next five-minute question, or maybe Jo Stevens.Prepare yourself for that. I might look to different countries. If you have a second delegate, he or she will be given the opportunity to ask a question as well.Go ahead, Ms. Stevens, for five minutes.PeterKentHon.ThornhillJoStevens//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English]I'm sorry Mr. Potts—NeilPottsNeilPotts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English]Mr. Potts, the priority is given to members of the committee, and Mr. Lucas has the floor. Go ahead, Mr. Lucas.NeilPottsIanLucas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English]We're at time, so I have to move on to the next questioner, who is Mr. Lawless from Ireland.IanLucasJamesLawless//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]Thank you, Mr. Lawless.We'll go into our next round now.Go ahead, Singapore.ColinMcKaySunXueling//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1250)[English]We've gone through just about all the delegates. We're going to go back to the U.K. for another kick. You didn't have to share your time, so we're going to give you some more time.We're going to go to Mr. Erskine-Smith, and I think Mr. Angus has another question. Ms. Stevens...again, and then I think we've completed everybody. As chair, I'm going to try to give everybody a five-minute turn. Once we have gone through everybody, we have David to follow the sequence. Then we'll look at second questions in second five-minute times, so if you wish to ask another question, please let the chair know, and I'll try to put them in priority.Next up, we have Mr. Erskine-Smith.SunXuelingNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1255)[English]We'll go back to the U.K. delegation for another five-minute slot. Just so it's clear, Estonia has asked for a second question. Germany, Mexico and members of our committee have as well. There's Singapore, whose hand I've seen just now, Charlie Angus, Damian Collins and then I'll finish. Mr. Lucas or Ms. Stevens, go ahead.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkIanLucas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1300)[English]Thank you.We have to move on. I want to highlight what's going to happen in the next 30 minutes. We have two members of the Canadian committee who haven't spoken yet. We're going to give them five minutes each. That gives us, with the people who have asked for second questions, about 20 minutes, approximately three minutes per individual. Again, we'll go to Mr. Graham first and Mr. Saini, and then we'll go by country. Go ahead, Mr. Graham.CarlosMonjeDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1305)[English]We're actually out of time. Sorry, Mr. Graham.We'll go to Mr. Saini for five minutes.David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Now, we'll go into the countries again. We're at about two minutes each. If it can be quick that would be great. We have Estonia, Germany, Mexico, Singapore, Ireland and then we have some closing statements from us.Go ahead, Estonia.RajSainiKitchener CentreKeitPentus-Rosimannus//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Next up is Germany. Go ahead.NeilPottsJensZimmermann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Thank you.We'll go to Singapore for two minutes.CarlosMonje//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1320)[English]I'm sorry. If it's not an answer directly to Mr. Tong, we don't have the time.I'm sorry, Mr. Tong. We're out of time.We have to move on to Ireland for two minutes, and then we will make some closing remarks.I apologize. I wish we had more time. We just don't.Go ahead.KevinChanHildegardeNaughton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1320)[English] Thank you, Ms. Naughton. We appreciate all the testimony today. We have some closing statements, starting with Mr. Angus....My apologies to Mexico, you did put up your hand, so we'll give you a quick two minutes. Go ahead.CarlosMonjeAntares GuadalupeVázquez AlatorreHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1325)[English]We'd better move on.We'll go to Mr. Angus for just a couple of minutes, and then Mr. Collins and me.Go ahead, Mr. Angus.DerekSlaterCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1325)[English] Thank you, Mr. Angus.Mr. Collins.DerekSlaterDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1330)[English] I want to thank everybody for your testimony today. I applaud Mr. Chan on some of the changes that you say are coming. We've heard this story many times, so I guess we will wait to see what we get at the end of the day. It goes to what we were asking for in the first place. In good faith we asked your CEO and your COO to come before us today to work together for a solution to what these problems are that a whole bunch of countries and a whole bunch of people around the globe see as common issues. To me, it's shameful that they are not here today to answer those specific questions that you could not fully answer.That's what's troubling. We're trying to work with you, and you're saying you are trying to work with us. We just had a message today that was forwarded to me by my vice-chair. It says, “Facebook will be testifying at the International Grand Committee this morning. Neil Potts and Kevin Chan will be testifying. Neither of whom are listed in this leadership chart of the policy team's 35 most senior officials”.Then we're told you're not even in the top 100. No offence to you individuals, you're taking it for the team for Facebook, so I appreciate your appearance here today, but my last words to say before the committee is shame on Mark Zuckerberg and shame on Sheryl Sandberg for not showing up today. That said, we have media availability immediately following this meeting to answer questions. We're going to be signing the Ottawa declaration just over here so we're going to have a member from each delegation sitting here as representatives. After that, all the members of Parliament visiting from around the world are invited to attend our question period today. I'm going to point out my chief of staff, Cindy Bourbonnais. She will help you get the passes you need to sit in the House if you wish to come to QP today. Thank you again for coming as witnesses. We will move right into the Ottawa declaration. The meeting is adjourned. DemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionSocial networking sitesKevinChan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (0830)[English]We're calling to order meeting 152 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Today in Ottawa, we have the international grand committee on big data, privacy and democracy.I'm going to go over the countries quickly. We're not going to go through introductions because it would take up too much time, unfortunately.We have the United Kingdom. With me today is Damian Collins, the co-chair of the international grand committee. He'll make comments in a few minutes.We have the Parliament of Singapore with us. The Houses of the Oireachtas are here from Ireland. The Parliament of the Federal Republic of Germany is with us. The Chamber of Deputies of the Republic of Chile is with us. The Parliament of the Republic of Estonia is here. The Senate of the United Mexican States is with us. The House of Representatives of the Kingdom of Morocco is with us. We have the National Assembly of the Republic of Ecuador. The Legislative Assembly of the Republic of Costa Rica is here. Finally, the House of Assembly of Saint Lucia is with us.I want to introduce my co-chair, Mr. Damian Collins.Welcome.DemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0830)[English]Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Collins.We'll start off with our witnesses this morning.As individuals, we have Mr. Jim Balsillie, chair, Centre for International Governance Innovation; Mr. Roger McNamee, author of Zucked; Shoshana Zuboff, author of The Age of Surveillance Capitalism; and last but certainly not least, from Manila in the Philippines, we have Maria Ressa, chief executive officer and executive editor of Rappler Inc.Today, we'll start off with our very own, Jim Balsillie.Go ahead.DamianCollinsJimBalsillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0835)[English]Thank you, Mr. Balsillie. Next up, for five minutes we'll go to Mr. McNamee.JimBalsillieRogerMcNamee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0845)[English]Thank you, Mr. McNamee. We'll go next to Ms. Zuboff.RogerMcNameeShoshanaZuboff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0855)[English]Thank you, Ms. Zuboff, for that testimony.We'll go next to Ms. Ressa, for 10 minutes.ShoshanaZuboffMariaRessa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English]Ms. Ressa, could we have you close off your testimony? We're at 12 minutes. I'd like to get to questions if we could.MariaRessaMariaRessa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0910)[English]My apologies for cutting you off. Your testimony is powerful, and we have watched your story from afar.We'll get to questions.I will have to warn you that we're only going to have enough time for one question per delegation in this particular round. In the next round, we have enough time for everybody.We're going to start off with Damian Collins, then go to Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Peter Kent and Mr. Angus, and then go through the delegation. That should give us five minutes each. Again, it's going to be tight. I'm going to try to keep us on a five-minute timeline as much as I possibly can.We'll start with Mr. Collins.Go ahead.MariaRessaDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0910)[English]It's two and a half minutes. DamianCollinsIanLucas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0915)[English]Thank you, Ms. Stevens.We'll go to Mr. Erskine-Smith for five minutes. RogerMcNameeNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0920)[English]Thank you. We're out of time, Mr. Picard.We'll go next for five minutes to Mr. Kent.MichelPicardMontarvillePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0925)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up is Mr. Angus. PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0930)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Now we'll go to our delegations.We'll go to the Parliament of Singapore for five minutes. CharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0935)[English]Thank you. We're past time, so if we have some time to get back around to finish your question, we will.Next, we'll go to the Republic of Germany for five minutes.SunXuelingJensZimmermann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0940)[English]Thank you very much.Next up, we have the Republic of Chile.Apparently the representative isn't here yet, so we'll go next to the representative from Estonia, for five minutes.ShoshanaZuboffKeitPentus-Rosimannus//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]We're actually out of time. We're already at six minutes, so we'll move on. I do think we'll have some time to get back to another round. We see some of the delegations haven't arrived yet.We'll go next to Mexico.KeitPentus-RosimannusAntares GuadalupeVázquez AlatorreHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0955)[English]Thank you very much.Next up, we'll go to Morocco, for five minutes.ShoshanaZuboffMohammedOuzzine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1000)[English]Thank you, Ms. Zuboff.Next up we'll go to Costa Rica.ShoshanaZuboffCarolinaHidalgo Herrera//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1005)[English]Ms. Ressa, do you have any comments? We haven't heard from you in a little while. CarolinaHidalgo HerreraMariaRessa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1005)[English]Thank you, Ms. Ressa. We'll go to the last country that's going to ask a question, Saint Lucia. We will have time for Singapore and Estonia to ask one more question each. Go ahead. MariaRessaAndyDanielHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1010)[English]Thank you, Mr. McNamee.We'll go next to Singapore and then Estonia. You'll have one last question each.RogerMcNameeSunXueling//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1010)[English]Thank you.I'll go to Estonia for the next question.RogerMcNameeKeitPentus-Rosimannus//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1015)[English] Thank you.That brings us to the conclusion of the questions. I'll just summarize some of the comments. Ms. Zuboff, you mentioned the term “behavioural modification”. Ms. Ressa, you talked about “creative destruction”. Mr. Balsillie, you talked about undermining our personal autonomy. Last night, because I had nothing better to do, I was watching CPAC. I was watching you, Mr. McNamee, and you referred to our audience and our users, and you used a particular name. As legislators our challenge is to relate to the millennial generation in terminology that we can all easily understand. You mentioned the term “voodoo dolls”. I would like you to finish off with an explanation of what that is and how you explained it last night, because I really couldn't think of a better way to explain what's happening to our generation.Behaviour modificationInformation collectionInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionRogerMcNameeRogerMcNamee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1020)[English]Thank you, Mr. McNamee. I would like to thank you all for testifying and the offer Ms. Zuboff made to us to help us get there. We're going to be calling on you. This committee will end tomorrow at noon. Certainly though, the work will not. We look forward to having your opinions as a feedback loop and also to ask you questions on a regular basis to get the answers we need.We're going to have the platforms appear at 10:30. That's in 10 minutes. Thank you again for appearing before us today.The meeting is adjourned. RogerMcNamee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1900)[English] We'll call to order our meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, and to a larger extent, our international grand committee. We'd like to welcome especially the visitors from around the globe tonight.You will notice some empty seats beside you. We've heard of some unexpected flight delays for some of the delegations. They will definitely be here. Some are arriving as we speak. Some are arriving in about an hour from now. Again, my apologies for their not being here as planned.I'd like to go through, first of all, the countries that are going to be represented tonight, tomorrow and Wednesday. Then we'll go around and have some brief introductions, and get right into the presentations.We're still expecting some of our witnesses to come, as well.We'll start off with the countries that are represented, confirmed just today—Canada, of course, the United Kingdom, Singapore, Ireland, Germany, Chile, Estonia, Mexico, Morocco, Ecuador, St. Lucia, and Costa Rica.I will say that we have lost a few due to something called elections around the globe that we can't really have control over. Those have gotten in the way of some of the other countries being able to get here.I see some of our witnesses. Mr. Balsillie and Mr. McNamee, please take your seats at the front. We're just getting started. Welcome.I want to go around the table quickly and have the delegates say their name and introduce the country they're from.Let's start off with our member from Estonia.DemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionKeitPentus-Rosimannus//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1905)[English]Thank you.I'll finish.My name is Bob Zimmer, member of Parliament for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, the beautiful northern British Columbia riding with the Rockies running right through it. I also chair the access to information, privacy and ethics committee that we sit before tonight.Also, I'll give Mr. Kint some credit today. I gave you some credit earlier. This whole idea of the international grand committee came out of a Washington summit meeting in a pub with me, Mr. Erskine-Smith, Ian Lucas and Damian Collins. That's how it really started. We wanted to do something better—we thought better together as a coalition of countries to work out some solutions to these problems. So I'll give you some credit for probably buying one of the beers that one night. I appreciate that.Mr. Angus has a comment, and then we'll get into the presentations.David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1905)[English]Yes, I've seen similar.... The story, I believe, was on CNN this afternoon. I have not received that, as chair of the committee. Whether they will show up or won't show up.... We've asked the clerk, as well. We haven't received any communication to say they're not going to be appearing tomorrow morning. My expectation is that we'll have some spaces for them to come and sit and give testimony. Whether or not they choose to fill those is up to them. Again, it's my hope and expectation that they will follow through with our subpoena and show up tomorrow. That's just my comment back that officially, nothing as chair, nothing as clerk of the committee.Committee witnessesDemocracyInternational Grand CommitteeInternetPrivacy and data protectionCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1905)[English]We'll get right into it tonight. It's a bit more of an informal presentation from our guests tonight, so we won't be asking questions. This is just setting the stage for the next couple of days. It's warming up the conversation on why we're here and why we need to be concerned about big data, privacy and disinformation, etc.We'll start off with Mr. Kint.We'll give you the floor.First, I'll read the list so that you'll know when you're the next to speak, and maybe I'll say who you represent, although you're all here as individuals.As I said, we're starting with Jason Kint.Jim Balsillie, chair, Centre for International Governance Innovation.Roger McNamee, author of Zucked.Roger, I know your resumé goes a lot longer than that, but we'll keep it short.Taylor Owen, associate professor, McGill University.Ben Scott.Heidi Tworek, assistant professor, University of British Columbia.Shoshana Zuboff.Shoshana, I really appreciated your book. It's very informative.Last but not least is Maria Ressa. She is with us via teleconference.We're glad you could join us tonight, Maria. I know that you've been in some trying circumstances of late. It would have been nice to have you here, but I understand that that's out of your control.We'll start off with Jason, and next will be Jim.Go ahead, Jason.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayJasonKint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1910)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kint.You've kept very well under your seven-minute time. I'd like to remind everybody that seven minutes is the time allotted, so that was a good job.Next up is Mr. Balsillie.JasonKintJimBalsillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1915)[English]Thank you, Mr. Balsillie.Next up we have Roger McNamee. Taylor Owen is on deck.Go ahead, Mr. McNamee.JimBalsillieRogerMcNamee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1915)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. McNamee.Next up, we have Taylor Owen, and on deck is Ben Scott. Go ahead, please.RogerMcNameeTaylorOwen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1925)[English]Thank you, Mr. Owen.We'll go next to Mr. Scott.TaylorOwenBenScott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1930)[English]Just a second. The translation just went from English to Spanish, I believe. We'll just let the translators know.I'm good at English, but not at Spanish.BenScottBenScott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1930)[English]Translation, are we good to go? Okay.Go ahead, Mr. Scott. Sorry.BenScottBenScott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1930)[English]Thank you, Mr. Scott.Next up is Heidi Tworek, and on deck is Ms. Zuboff.BenScottHeidiTworek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1940)[English]Thank you, Ms. Tworek. Next up is Ms. Zuboff.You, and I with a name like Zimmer, have always been at the end of every list, and you're just about there. Go ahead, Ms. Zuboff. It's good to have you here. HeidiTworekShoshanaZuboff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1940)[English]That's just because I understand. Go ahead. ShoshanaZuboffShoshanaZuboff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1955)[English]Thank you, Ms. Zuboff.Last, I will go to Maria Ressa. She's coming all the way from Manila in the Philippines.Go ahead, Ms. Ressa.ShoshanaZuboffMariaRessa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (2000)[English] Thank you, Ms. Ressa. That pretty much brings us to the end of our testimony for this evening. We're going to Room 225A down the hall to meet more informally and to be able to ask you questions directly. I'm sorry again, Ms. Ressa, that you're not able to be here, but again the idea tonight was to get the conversation going and that will continue over there. I want to remind everybody we are going to start crisply with testimony at 8:30 tomorrow morning, so I challenge you to be here when you can. I am going to be much more limiting. I gave some latitude with time tonight. Folks on the committee, tomorrow it's five minutes each for questioning. Again we look forward to the testimony. We won't hear some of you again, but we thank you for making the special trip to be part of this panel tonight, and we look forward to this conversation continuing. Regardless that the Wednesday meeting ends at noon, the conversation will continue on how to make our data world a better place. We'll see you just down the hall. The meeting is adjourned. MariaRessa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1545)[English] We'll call the meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting 150. Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), we are considering the main estimates 2019-20, vote 1 under Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying, vote 1 under the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, vote 1 under the Office of the Senate Ethics Officer and votes 1, 5, 10 and 15 under the Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada, referred to the committee on Thursday, April 11, 2019.With us today we have, from the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Mr. Mario Dion. With the commissioner, we have Sandy Tremblay, director of corporate management. In the second hour, we're going to have the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying. With us will be Nancy Bélanger, Commissioner of Lobbying, and Charles Dutrisac, director of finance and chief financial officer.Mr. Dion, it's good to see you. You have 10 minutes.Main estimates 2019-2020MarioDion//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you, Commissioner.Just for the sake of the committee, too, we did have an amended agenda. The agenda before you is incorrect. We're going until 4:15 p.m. It gives us enough time. I'm going to try to get us through the first four questioners—Ms. Fortier, Mr. Kent, Mr. Cullen and Mr. Erskine-Smith—and then we'll move to the next commissioner. That's all the time we have. Just to clarify again, the agenda is amended. It will take us to about 4:20 p.m., or so. Thanks.Go ahead, Madam Fortier.MarioDionMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Up next for seven minutes is Mr. Kent.RajSainiKitchener CentrePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, Commissioner and Mr. Kent.Next up for seven minutes, we have a visitor. Welcome back, Mr. Cullen. Go ahead.PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanCullenSkeena—Bulkley Valley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Thank you, Mr. Cullen.Last up is Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes.NathanCullenSkeena—Bulkley ValleyNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]As mentioned, Commissioner, we wish you good health from our committee and we would like to see you again soon. Thanks for appearing today.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkMarioDion//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]We'll suspend until we have the other commissioner come in. (1625)(1625)MarioDionBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]I call the meeting back to order.I won't go over what I read before, but we welcome, from the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying, Nancy Bélanger, the Commissioner; and Charles Dutrisac, Director of Finance and Chief Financial Officer.I apologize to everybody. We had votes that shortened our time even more than we had already shortened it.Go ahead, Ms. Bélanger, for 10 minutes. BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesNancyBélanger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you, Commissioner. We will start off with Mr. Graham, for seven minutes.NancyBélangerDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]You have three minutes.David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you. We have to move on. Mr. Kent, you have seven minutes.NancyBélangerPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for seven minutes is Ms. Mathyssen.PeterKentHon.ThornhillIreneMathyssenLondon—Fanshawe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Yes, got it.Main estimates 2019-2020IreneMathyssenLondon—FanshaweIreneMathyssenLondon—Fanshawe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Next up is Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes or less. NancyBélangerNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Commissioner, that brings us to the end of our questions.NancyBélangerNancyBélanger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Yes, it did go by fast. You weren't just dreaming; it did go fast.NancyBélangerNancyBélanger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you very much.Before we suspend, we have to vote on the estimates.OFFICE OF THE COMMISSIONER OF LOBBYINGVote 1—Program expenditures..........$4,406,633(Vote 1 agreed to)OFFICE OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND ETHICS COMMISSIONERVote 1—Program expenditures..........$6,355,513(Vote 1 agreed to)OFFICE OF THE SENATE ETHICS OFFICERVote 1—Program expenditures..........$1,231,278(Vote 1 agreed to)OFFICES OF THE INFORMATION AND PRIVACY COMMISSIONERS OF CANADAVote 1—Program expenditures—Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada..........$10,209,556Vote 5—Program expenditures—Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada..........$21,968,802Vote 10—Support for Access to Information—Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada..........$3,032,615Vote 15—Protecting the Privacy of Canadians—Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada..........$5,100,000(Votes 1, 5, 10 and 15 agreed to)The Chair: Shall the chair report the main estimates 2019-20, less the amounts voted in interim supply, to the House? Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Good. I will do that. We'll now go into committee business.[Proceedings continue in camera]Decisions in committeeDivisionsMain estimates 2019-2020NancyBélanger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English] I will bring to order meeting number 149 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), we are studying the main estimates 2019-20, vote 1 under the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying, vote 1 under the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, vote 1 under the Office of the Senate Ethics Officer, and votes 1, 5, 10 and 15 under the Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada, as referred to the committee on Thursday, April 11, 2019.Today we have with us, from the Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada, Caroline Maynard, Information Commissioner of Canada; France Labine, deputy commissioner, corporate services, strategic planning and transformation services; and Layla Michaud, deputy commissioner, investigations and governance.We will start off with you, Commissioner, for 10 minutes. ComplaintsInquiries and public inquiriesMain estimates 2019-2020Privacy of personal recordsCarolineMaynard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English] Thank you, Commissioner. Mr. Erskine-Smith, you have seven minutes.CarolineMaynardNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up for seven minutes, we have Mr. Kent.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Ms. Hardcastle.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCherylHardcastleWindsor—Tecumseh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you.Next up, for seven minutes, we have Mr. Picard.CarolineMaynardMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]I don't see them continuing. We'll let you know.MichelPicardMontarvilleMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English] By the way, that was just a quorum call. That's why the bells went off briefly. It looks like it's fine now. Next up is Monsieur Gourde for five minutes.MichelPicardMontarvilleJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English] Thank you, Monsieur Gourde.Next up is Madame Fortier for five minutes.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English] Thank you.I think I'll go to Mr. Erskine-Smith because he had one question, and then I'll go to Charlie to finish. MonaFortierOttawa—VanierNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Is it the will of the committee to follow through with the request from Mr. Erskine-Smith?Yes, we can do this.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Go ahead, Frank. You have about a minute and a half left over from that time, and counting.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Sorry to interrupt you.We still have 15 minutes. If you want to go ahead and then we'll finish with Charlie, we still have time to do those two last questions. Go ahead for five minutes. FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Frank, this is your last question.CarolineMaynardFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]If you can answer that quickly, it would be appreciated.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardCarolineMaynard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.Next up is Mr. Angus, to take us home.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thanks, everybody. Thanks again to the commissioner for coming today. It's been a while. You're starting to settle into your job well. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCarolineMaynard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]We look forward to your coming back again soon. CarolineMaynardCarolineMaynard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]We're going to suspend temporarily. We're going to go in camera for committee business in about two minutes.[Proceedings continue in camera]CarolineMaynard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English] Good day, everybody. We're at the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting 148, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vi) and (vii), a study of election advertising on YouTube.Today we have with us, from Google Canada, Colin McKay, head of public policy and government relations. We also have Jason Kee, public policy and government relations counsel.Just before we get started, I want to announce to the room that the release went out at 3:30, so it's going out as we speak, with regard to the matter that we dealt with on Tuesday, so watch for that.We'll start off with Mr. McKay.AdvertisingElectoral systemYouTubeColinMcKay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you to both of you.First up in our seven-minute round is Mr. Erskine-Smith.JasonKeeNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Next up we have Ms. Kusie, for seven minutes.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkStephanieKusieCalgary Midnapore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English] Thank you. Next, we'll go to Mr. Dusseault for seven minutes.JasonKeePierre-LucDusseaultSherbrooke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English] Thank you.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Graham.JasonKeeDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you.Next up, for five minutes, is Monsieur Gourde.JasonKeeJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Monsieur Picard, you're next up, for five minutes.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English] Monsieur Gourde, you're next up, for another five minutes.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Next up for five minutes is Mr. Baylis.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis. We are going to have more time, so if you want some more time, you can ask for that.Next we'll have Mr. Dusseault. Folks, we do have quite a bit of time. We have 55 minutes. We have these witnesses for the rest of the time. Anyway, just let me know. Typically, we try to end by five on Thursdays, but we'll see where it goes.Mr. Dusseault, you have three minutes.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrooke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you.We will go into the next round, which will be our final one. I think we have four more questions to be asked, or four more time periods. On the list, we have Mr. Graham, Mr. Erskine-Smith, Mr. Nater and Mr. Baylis, each for five minutes. Is that okay?Go ahead, Mr. Graham.ColinMcKayDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you.Go ahead, Mr. Baylis.David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Mr. Baylis, that finishes the combined time for you and Mr. Erskine-Smith.We have somebody else, and then we're going to come back to you.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English] It looks as if that's what you're asking for.We'll go next to Mr. Nater for five minutes.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardJohnNaterPerth—Wellington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Next up, we're going to go with a combination. We're going to go with Mr. Erskine-Smith first and then Mr. Baylis to finish. We have about four minutes left.Go ahead, Mr. Erskine-Smith. ColinMcKayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Mr. Baylis—FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]That brings us to the end of our questions.Mr. Erskine-Smith, have you one last comment, or are we good? Okay.Mr. Graham. FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Once again, Mr. McKay and Mr. Kee, thank you for coming. We look forward to your appearance and Google's appearance at the IGC. I hope the requests are taken seriously, as we've requested your CEO; we hope you're still considering that. Thanks for coming today.The meeting is adjourned. David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1540)[English]Thank you once again, Commissioner. I just wanted to give you a heads-up from the committee. I think it's been discussed amongst parties and members that we'll have one seven-minute round per party and then we're going to get right into the Facebook report, if that's okay with you.DanielTherrienDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]We'll start the first seven-minute round with Mr. Saini.DanielTherrienRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Mr. Gourde, go ahead for seven minutes.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English] Thank you.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Angus.DanielTherrienCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you.We'll move into the second part of our meeting, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h), on the study of a joint investigation of Facebook Incorporated by the Privacy Commissioner of Canada and the Information and the Privacy Commissioner for British Columbia. We again have with us Commissioner Therrien. We also have with us Brent Homan, deputy commissioner, compliance sector.Go ahead for 10 minutes.DanielTherrienDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Commissioner. I will start off first of all with Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes. DanielTherrienNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Next up, for seven minutes, Monsieur Gourde.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Mr. Angus, for seven minutes.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Next up for seven minutes we have Monsieur Picard.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Next up for five minutes is Mr. McCauley.MichelPicardMontarvilleKellyMcCauleyEdmonton West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Next up, we'll go to Ms. Vandenbeld for five minutes.KellyMcCauleyEdmonton WestAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Next up for five minutes we have Mr. Gourde. AnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—NepeanJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Go ahead, Ms. Fortier, for five minutes.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English] Mr. Angus.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you, Commissioner Therrien.Once again, it's never long enough, but we appreciate your appearing at our committee.We have committee business right away, so I'd ask you to keep the exit as brief as possible.[Proceedings continue in camera]DanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English] We'll call to order meeting 146 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we're continuing our study on the ethical aspects of artificial intelligence and algorithms.In the first hour today, we have with us, as individuals, witnesses Marc-Antoine Dilhac, professor of philosophy, Université de Montréal, and Christian Sandvig, director of the Center for Ethics, Society, and Computing, University of Michigan.Also, as we all know, we're going to discuss in camera, pursuant to Standing Order 108, a briefing by the law clerk of the House on the power of committees to summon witnesses. That will be our discussion following this hour.We'll start off with Marc-Antoine for 10 minutes.AlgorithmsArtificial intelligenceMarc-AntoineDilhac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English] Thank you very much, Marc-Antoine.Next up we'll have Christian Sandvig for 10 minutes. Go ahead. Marc-AntoineDilhacChristianSandvig//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you very much, both of you, for your testimony. We'll start off with seven-minute questioning rounds.We'll start with Ms. Vandenbeld.ChristianSandvigAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Kent. Marc-AntoineDilhacPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Sorry, we're way over.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Julian.PeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterJulianNew Westminster—Burnaby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Next up, for seven minutes, Mr. Erskine-Smith.PeterJulianNew Westminster—BurnabyNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Normally we have lots of time for these discussions, but I have to give everybody notice that we have time for only two more five-minute questions. Then we have to get into the discussion about the legal advice on the summons. I just want to forewarn you about that.We have Monsieur Gourde for five minutes, and then Monsieur Picard.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English] Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up is Mr. Picard. That will close this off. Go ahead, Mr. Picard.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English] Thank you, Mr. Picard, and thank you to our witnesses. I know it's something we could talk about for a lot longer than an hour. We appreciate your time today.We're going to briefly suspend while we go in camera with Mr. Dufresne.Again, thank you. I appreciate your contributions to our committee.[Proceedings continue in camera]MichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1540)[English] We will call to order meeting number 145 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), this is the study of the ethical aspects of artificial intelligence and algorithms.First of all, we'll go to Mr. Angus who has a motion. Go ahead, Mr. Angus. AlgorithmsArtificial intelligenceMotionsCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Yes. As chair, I'll send out the link. I uploaded it on iTunes, so get it however you wish.RajSainiKitchener CentreCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]He was much more involved than he let on. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]I'll speak quickly to that, Mr. Angus, to talk about the aspects of the study, and then I'll pass it on to the clerk. Our calendar is very packed for what we're able to pull off. The analysts are wondering how far we go with this. Do we report back with a report?Mr. Clerk, go ahead. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayMichaelMacPherson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Is there any debate?MichaelMacPhersonCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Mr. Kent. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Mr. Erskine-Smith. PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]That sounds good. Is there any further discussion on that?Mr. Angus. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English] Okay. Is there any more debate or any discussion? Seeing none, all in favour of the motion?(Motion agreed to)The Chair: That's unanimous.Thank you, Mr. Angus.We'll get on to business. We have two witnesses here with us today: Mr. Ben Wagner, assistant professor, Vienna University of Economics, by teleconference; and Yoshua Bengio from Mila-Quebec Artificial Intelligence Institute. Dr. Bengio is the scientific director there and is here by teleconference from Montreal.We'll start with you, Mr. Wagner. Go ahead for 10 minutes.AlgorithmsArtificial intelligenceDecisions in committeeCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayBenWagner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you.We'll go next to Mr. Bengio in Montreal.Go ahead, please, for 10 minutes.BenWagnerYoshuaBengio//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you.We'll get to questions.I just want to recognize that we have a special guest and his class with us today. Professor Michael Geist, I thank you for attending. You could probably appear at the same panel with us today, but you're going to take the easy road today and listen in. Welcome, students.YoshuaBengioCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]They're from Haifa, so we have students from across the water.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Just a little. Thank you for coming today.We'll start off with Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.We'll go next to Mr. Kent for seven minutes.YoshuaBengioPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Next up, we have Mr. Angus for seven minutes. PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English] Thank you.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Saini.BenWagnerRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Could you hear that question, Mr. Wagner? I guess not. Are you able to hear me now, either one of you?RajSainiKitchener CentreYoshuaBengio//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Mr. Wagner?YoshuaBengioNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Yes. I'll take that as a no.Your time is still ticking, too, Mr. Saini. Hopefully, you'll get it back.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English] We have Mr. Wagner back.RajSainiKitchener CentreRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English] Mr. Gourde.RajSainiKitchener CentreJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English] Mr. Picard, for five minutes.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]I just want to bring this before the committee. We actually have three more on the list to ask questions—Mr. Kent, Mr. Baylis and Mr. Angus—but we're at about the five-minute mark. Because we had so many delays, I would suggest we go into committee business slightly later, but it's up to you. What would you like to see? I think the questions still need to be asked, but I'm looking for direction from the committee just to finish the slate of questions. Some hon. members: Agreed. MichelPicardMontarvilleBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]It will just push into committee business by about eight minutes.Okay, we'll continue.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent. BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Baylis. PeterKentHon.ThornhillFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.Last up for three minutes is Mr. Angus.BenWagnerCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]I want to thank our witnesses. I think it's alarming just for you to say that essentially AI is largely unregulated. We're seeing that with data-opolies as well, and we're really trying to grasp what we do as regulators to protect our citizens.The challenge is before us, and it's certainly not easy, but I think we will take your advice. Mr. Wagner, you said to start early. It already feels like we're too late, but we're going to do our best.I want to thank you for appearing today from Vienna, and from Montreal as well.We're going to suspend for a few minutes to get our guests out so we can get into committee business.Thank you.[Proceedings continue in camera]CharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English] We'll call the meeting to order.This is meeting number 143 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we continue with the study of privacy of digital government services.Today we have with us Brian Kelcey, vice-president of the Toronto Region Board of Trade.First of all, as most of the committee knows, there have been two motions brought before us. We'll start with Mr. Kent.Go ahead. Committee businesse-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English] Thank you, Mr. Gourde.I think we have a speakers list. We'll go first to Mr. Angus.Go ahead, Mr. Angus.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up is Mr. Erskine-Smith.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up we have Mr. Kent, and then Mr. Angus.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English] Thank you, Mr. Kent.Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Is there any further discussion of the motion on the table right now?Mr. Erskine-Smith.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you.Next up we have Mr. Kent, and then Mr. Angus.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]We're back to Mr. Kent.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English] That's the last speaker I have on the list.Is there any further discussion on the motion?I guess we'll go to the vote.PeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English] Next up, we have the next motion.Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Mr. Kent.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Is there any further discussion on the motion before us?Go ahead, Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]I can give you some time to think. I'm just going to talk to the witness to explain everything, while you think a bit.Mr. Kelcey, we are still going to get to you today. We have time. I appreciate your patience. We have committee business as well, but I think we have time for everything. We had one witness who said they weren't able to make it today, so that's fine. We tried to reschedule, but that person isn't available Thursday either, and we'll get into that a bit later. Just to let you know, rest assured, we are still going to hear from you today. Mr. Angus, are you ready?CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you again, Mr. Angus. Is there any further discussion on the motion before us?We will go to a vote.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]We'll have a recorded vote, Mr. Angus. (Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 3)The Chair: Thank you, everybody. We'll get on with our witness today. I'll just explain a bit of the plan. We have only one witness, and we still have committee business at the end. It should take us until about five o'clock to get everything done, as we have only one witness.Go ahead, Mr. Kelcey, for 10 minutes. Attorney General of CanadaChin, BenCommittee businessCommittee witnessesCriminal prosecutionsDecisions in committeeMotionsPolitical influenceRecorded divisionsRemediation agreementsSNC-Lavalin Group Inc.Telford, KatieCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayBrianKelcey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kelcey, and thank you especially for making us smile a little bit. Sometimes work gets pretty serious here.BrianKelceyBrianKelcey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thanks for the humour; we appreciate it.I'll go first of all to Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes.BrianKelceyNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up is Mr. Kent, for seven minutes.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]You have 30 seconds.BrianKelceyPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Last up is Mr. Angus for seven minutes.BrianKelceyCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Mr. Kelcey, we'd like to thank you for your patience again today and for your testimony. We're going to go into some committee business, just for us, so thanks for coming down today and being with us. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayBrianKelcey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]We'll suspend for about three or four minutes until the witnesses leave.[Proceedings continue in camera]BrianKelcey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English] I'll call the meeting to order. This is meeting 142 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we are resuming our study of privacy of digital government services.The witnesses we have with us are, from the Canadian Bankers Association, Angelina Mason, General Counsel and Vice-President; and Marina Mandal, Vice-President, Banking Transformation and Strategy. From Symcor, Inc., we have Della Shea, Vice-President, Privacy and Data Governance and Chief Privacy Officer.We'll start off with Marina, for 10 minutes.e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionMarinaMandal//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Thank you once again.Next up, we have Ms. Shea, with Symcor Incorporated, for 10 minutes.MarinaMandalDellaShea//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you, Ms. Shea.Next up we have questions, starting with Mr. Saini for seven minutes.DellaSheaRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Next up, for seven minutes, we have Mr. Kent.RajSainiKitchener CentrePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]We're at time, but if you have a quick—PeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]That's fine. I'm trying to be nice.Next up, for seven minutes—PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Angus.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up, for seven minutes, is Monsieur Picard.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Thank you, Monsieur Picard.Next up, for five minutes, is Monsieur Gourde.MichelPicardMontarvilleJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Erskine-Smith.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent.MarinaMandalPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up is Ms. Vandenbeld, for five minutes.MarinaMandalAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]We're out of time. We just crossed the line.We have three questioners left. We have Mr. Angus for three minutes, and Mr. Fortier and Mr. Baylis after that. That's all I have on my slate as of now.Mr. Angus.DellaSheaCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.The last person up today is Ms. Fortier. AngelinaMasonMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you, Ms. Fortier.Mr. Erskine-Smith.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Is there any discussion?Mr. Angus.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Do you have an amended motion or do you want to work that into your initial one?Committee businessNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Mr. Kent, do you have any comments?NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]To me, that would be a separate motion. Would you propose a separate motion?PeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Okay.Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Is that fair, Mr. Kent? If not, another motion can be forthcoming.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]We will vote on the motion before us. (Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])Committee businessPeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Is that it, folks? Thanks, everybody. Have a good weekend. The meeting is adjourned.AngelinaMason//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1535)[English] I call to order meeting 141 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we are resuming our study of the privacy of digital government services.Today, from Sidewalk Labs, we have with us Dan Doctoroff, chief executive officer; Micah Lasher, head of policy and communications; and John Brodhead, director of policy and strategy.Before we get going, though, we have a motion from one of our members.Mr. Angus, go ahead.e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus. Is there any discussion to that effect?Our time is limited, but go ahead, Mr. Kent.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Yes, Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Mr. Angus, I'm told by the clerk that we can't vote on it today. Notice has to be given, so we are—Committee businessNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Do you want to speak to that, Mr. Clerk?CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayMichaelMacPherson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.I will note too that we started a little bit late and this group does have to catch a plane. They have to leave here by 5, so our time is somewhat limited. We'll get going right away. I believe we're starting with Mr. Doctoroff. Go ahead.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayDanDoctoroff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you, Mr. Doctoroff. I believe you are the only one speaking to this, so we'll go right to questions.First up for seven minutes is Mr. Vaughan.DanDoctoroffAdamVaughanSpadina—Fort York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you, Mr. Vaughan.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Kent.DanDoctoroffPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.DanDoctoroffCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Erskine-Smith.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.We have Frank Baylis down next to speak for five minutes. DanDoctoroffFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]That's just to start? Go ahead, Mr. Vaughan.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardAdamVaughanSpadina—Fort York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Baylis.AdamVaughanSpadina—Fort YorkAdamVaughanSpadina—Fort York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Mr. Baylis, you have about a minute.DanDoctoroffFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Just before we continue, we have about half an hour left, and I only have three scheduled questioners, so if there are some people who still want to ask questions, they should just inform the chair, and we'll go all the way to 5:00 if that's the way the committee wants to go. Following that, because our guests have to leave, we're going to go to some committee business, as we just have to discuss some things with regard to the international grand committee, so we'll go in camera for that at about 5:05.We'll keep going, and next up for five minutes are Mr. Kent, Mr. Erskine-Smith and then Mr. Angus. DanDoctoroffCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]We only have until 5:00 anyway, so—FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Going back to the questions, Mr. Kent, you have five minutes.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Did you want another—PeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Erskine-Smith.PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]We have three folks left, starting with Mr. Angus. I'll give each person three minutes. That should take us close to 5 p.m.Mr. Angus, you have three minutes.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]We're well past time.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayDanDoctoroff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]We'll go to Mr. Baylis for three minutes.DanDoctoroffFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.That's it, folks. The last question has been answered.I'd like to thank all of you for coming to Ottawa today to present to the committee.We're going to suspend for a few minutes until our guests exit, and then we'll reconvene at 5.[Proceedings continue in camera]MicahLasher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1300)[English] I call the meeting to order. We're going to discuss committee business. Two motions have been sent to the chair to talk about today. We have Mr. Kent to start—Committee businessPhilpott, JanePolitical influencePrime MinisterReferences to membersSNC-Lavalin Group Inc.Trudeau, JustinWilson-Raybould, JodyPierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1300)[English]Thank you. We do have a speakers list. I'll let the clerk know.Mr. Kent.PierrePoilievreHon.CarletonPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.We have a speaking order. Next up, for the second motion of the day, is Ms. Ramsey.PeterKentHon.ThornhillTraceyRamseyEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]As chair, I'm just going to clarify something. We have one motion on the table. You're speaking to that, so we'll have to vote on that first. Your motion can come after that.TraceyRamseyEssexTraceyRamseyEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Go ahead. You're still speaking to Mr. Kent's motion, correct?TraceyRamseyEssexTraceyRamseyEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1330)[English]Thank you, Ms. Ramsey.We have Mr. Poilievre to speak next to the amendment. TraceyRamseyEssexPierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1345)[English] Thank you, Mr. Poilievre.Next up we have Mr. Blaikie, who is speaking to the amendment.Go ahead, Mr. Blaikie.PierrePoilievreHon.CarletonDanielBlaikieElmwood—Transcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1400)[English]Thank you, Mr. Blaikie. Next up we have Mr. Weir speaking to the amendment.Mr. Weir. DanielBlaikieElmwood—TransconaErinWeirRegina—Lewvan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1405)[English]Thank you, Mr. Weir.Next up is Mr. Gourde speaking to the amendment.Go ahead.ErinWeirRegina—LewvanJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1410)[English] Thank you, Mr. Gourde.We will go back to Mr. Kent to respond to the amendment to the motion.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièrePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1410)[English]We'll go to Mr. Erskine-Smith to respond to the amendment. Go ahead.PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1415)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.To respond to that amendment, once again, go ahead, Mr. Kent. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1420)[English] Thank you, Mr. Kent.We'll go next to Mr. Blaikie again.PeterKentHon.ThornhillDanielBlaikieElmwood—Transcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1420)[English]Thank you, Mr. Blaikie.Up next is Mr. Weir.DanielBlaikieElmwood—TransconaErinWeirRegina—Lewvan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1425)[English]Certainly, Mr. Weir, you're able to suggest that, but not as a current sitting member of the committee. That would be something they would have to consider and could talk about after—Committee businessPhilpott, JanePolitical influencePrime MinisterReferences to membersSNC-Lavalin Group Inc.Trudeau, JustinWilson-Raybould, JodyErinWeirRegina—LewvanErinWeirRegina—Lewvan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1425)[English]Thank you, Mr. Weir.We'll go next to Ms. Ramsey.ErinWeirRegina—LewvanTraceyRamseyEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1430)[English]Thank you again, Ms. Ramsey.Next up is Mr. Poilievre.TraceyRamseyEssexPierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1430)[English]Okay. We do have the amendment before us. I guess it's a friendly amendment to the motion. We have you up next, Mr. Kent, but would you like Mr. Erskine-Smith to respond first?PierrePoilievreHon.CarletonPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1430)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Erskine-Smith.PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1435)[English] Seeing as this is a bit of a conversation, I'll put it back to Mr. Poilievre, and then we'll move on to Mr. Kent. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPierrePoilievreHon.Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1435)[English]Thank you, Mr. Poilievre.We'll go to Mr. Kent. PierrePoilievreHon.CarletonPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1435)[English]I have two other speakers still wishing to speak. The vote for the amendment has been called. Do you still want to speak to the amendment?Okay, go ahead, Mr. Blaikie. PeterKentHon.ThornhillDanielBlaikieElmwood—Transcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1435)[English]Thank you, Mr. Blaikie. Ms. Ramsey.DanielBlaikieElmwood—TransconaTraceyRamseyEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1440)[English] Are there any further comments on the amendment?An hon. member: Can we have a recorded vote?The Chair: Mr. Kent.TraceyRamseyEssexPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1440)[English] Now we'll move on to the motion before us. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkTraceyRamseyEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1440)[English]As I see no further discussion, we are adjourned.TraceyRamseyEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English] Good day. We'll call to order meeting number 138 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(iv), we are here for a briefing on the security and intelligence threats to elections task force. Today we have with us the Honourable Karina Gould, Minister of Democratic Institutions, for the first hour. For the second hour, we have André Boucher, assistant deputy minister, operations, Canadian Centre for Cyber Security; and Dan Rogers, deputy chief, SIGINT. From the Privy Council Office, we have Allen Sutherland, assistant secretary to cabinet, machinery of government and democratic institutions; and Ayesha Malette, senior policy analyst, democratic institutions. Minister Gould, we'll start with you. Go ahead for 10 minutes.Briefing sessionsElectoral systemSecurity and Intelligence Threats to Elections Task ForceSecurity intelligenceKarinaGouldHon.Burlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Minister.We'll start off the first seven-minute round with Ms. Vandenbeld.KarinaGouldHon.BurlingtonAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Kent.AnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—NepeanPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent. Mr. Angus, for seven minutes.KarinaGouldHon.BurlingtonCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up, for seven minutes, we have Mr. Saini.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini. Ms. Kusie.KarinaGouldHon.BurlingtonStephanieKusieCalgary Midnapore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, we're past time.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Erskine-Smith.KarinaGouldHon.BurlingtonNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you.Just for the room, we have three more questioners to ask questions. We started a bit late; hopefully that's not a problem for the minister.We're going to go to Mr. Gourde for five minutes.KarinaGouldHon.BurlingtonJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English] Thank you.Next up, for five minutes, is Madam Fortier.KarinaGouldHon.BurlingtonMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English] Mr. Angus, for three minutes.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]I have a couple of comments for the minister, just before we close. The phrase that came to me before, when I saw the legislation, Bill C-76, was that we are bringing a knife to a gunfight. In reality, we're not even bringing a knife; we're bringing a panel to a gunfight.The concern is around how, especially with some very clear recommendations in our report, 26 very clear recommendations that were very specific, we see very few of those being taken up by the minister. What has been talked about here in committee as a whole is that if expecting that social media platforms will act is your final point, isn't that supposed to make them treat it more seriously?I'll just refer you to a quote from the Information Commissioner from the U.K., which was later reiterated by our own Privacy Commissioner. “I think the time for self-regulation is over,” Denham said. “That ship has sailed.” I guess I just wonder—and this is for the minister—why we still let them self-regulate and expect them to do the right thing when they haven't, up to this point.I guess what I'm concerned about, what I think all at this committee are concerned about, is that, as has been mentioned before, we're in a Cold War—the Cold War reference was brought up—but we're in a digital reality and we're still treating it like a Cold War problem. With those comments, do you think you're doing enough? Electoral systemSecurity and Intelligence Threats to Elections Task ForceSecurity intelligenceSocial networking sitesCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayKarinaGouldHon.Burlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you, Minister.We'll suspend for just a few minutes while you make your exit, Minister, and then we'll have the other presenters in the last hour.KarinaGouldHon.BurlingtonKarinaGouldHon.Burlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]We'll suspend.(1645)(1645)KarinaGouldHon.BurlingtonBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]I will call the meeting back to order. First, we have a point of order from Mr. Angus.BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Yes, I'll speak to this. The letter was received by the chair, and I believe we're just waiting for it to be translated. Mike has just said it should be ready by tomorrow afternoon. Further to that, we have invited Mr. Balsillie to come back to speak to the committee. He's not able to come Thursday, so we're looking for a date when he is able to come back. Based on conversations I have had with the vice-chairs, I can say that's already been done. It's just the letter to the committee that's outstanding, and it will be coming tomorrow.Committee businessCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Yes, the chair can do that. I'll just make sure the analysts have that request. Committee businessCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayMaxime-OlivierThibodeau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Perfect.There is no presentation from the group, so we're right into questions.I'll give the first seven minutes to Mr. Erskine-Smith. Maxime-OlivierThibodeauNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Kent.AndréBoucherPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you. Just be really quick.AllenSutherlandPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you. Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.AllenSutherlandCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Next up for seven minutes is Monsieur Picard. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]We have about nine minutes left, so we'll be down to about three minutes each.We'll go to Ms. Kusie first of all, for three minutes. Then we'll go to Mr. Erskine-Smith for three minutes. Then we'll be close to done.Ms. Kusie.MichelPicardMontarvilleStephanieKusieCalgary Midnapore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]Thank you.Last up is Mr. Erskine-Smith for three minutes.DanRogersNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]Thank you, all.I just have one question. It refers to the trip some of us made to Washington about a year and a half ago, to talk about Equifax. It was still alarming to me to find out that we're not regulating our credit bureaus in our country. That said, the reason the Equifax breach was even discovered was that there was an overarching group called Homeland Security that actually warned Equifax of a potential breach. They warned them several times, but they did not respond and did not fix it. That's what caused the breach of 150 million Americans and about 19,000 Canadians, give or take, I guess.Do we have a similar system in Canada? I would rather you not answer if we don't. You can tell me later. Do you have a similar process?What concerns me about this is a statement that Mr. Rogers made. We have a mandate to investigate if they occur. My concern is whether the fire has to be lit for you to extinguish it, or whether you actually take steps to prevent the fire from occurring in the first place.Cyber attacksElectoral systeme-SecuritySecurity and Intelligence Threats to Elections Task ForceSecurity intelligenceAllenSutherlandDanRogers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]We have about 30 seconds or so.DanRogersAndréBoucher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English] I'll finish with a last plug for what our committee is going to be doing on May 28 here in this very room—the international grand committee, meeting number two. We met with eight other countries, plus Canada, in London to talk about these very issues, about foreign threats to our democracy, etc. We're going to be meeting in Canada this time for the second meeting. There will be a similar invitation list, inviting the platforms to appear. Any advice that you have for the committee, witnesses to pursue, etc., would be appreciated.Thank you for coming today to committee.Have a good afternoon, everybody. The meeting is adjourned.AndréBoucher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC): (1010)[English]As the chair of our ethics committee, one thing we've studied exhaustively is how groups can organize quickly around the world now on platforms like Facebook, etc. I respect you, sir, as a servant of the public, but I'll read paragraph 4.18. This is what all of this comes down to: This finding matters because physical security vulnerabilities must be resolved in a timely manner for the effective protection of staff and assets at missions abroad.You sit here and survive this committee meeting and you go away to your normal life. You don't come back here maybe for another four years—I don't know—but we have a fence that hasn't been fixed for eight years. Who do you answer to? I've been in bosses' offices before, answering for something that I haven't done properly. It's been rare, but it has happened. What's your commitment to seeing this fixed? Are you going to be here maybe next year, and maybe the next year again, and it's not fixed for the next 20 years? At what point do you actually get it done and answer what this audit report is challenging you to do? What's your response to, “Okay, I've just been taken to the cleaners here; I'm going to make sure this problem is resolved”? When is that going to happen?Embassies and consulatesReport 4, Physical Security at Canada’s Missions Abroad - Global Affairs Canada, of the Fall 2018 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaSecuritySecurity of propertyKevinSorensonHon.Battle River—CrowfootKevinSorensonHon.Battle River—Crowfoot//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bob Zimmer: (1015)[English] I know you're short of time, but you're starting to talk about generalities. I'm asking for something specific, namely, what you are going to do as a department to go back and look at all the Auditor General's recommendations and get them done within a reasonable time.Embassies and consulatesReport 4, Physical Security at Canada’s Missions Abroad - Global Affairs Canada, of the Fall 2018 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaSecuritySecurity of propertyIanShugartKevinSorensonHon.Battle River—Crowfoot//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English] I'd like to thank everybody for coming to the 137th meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we continue our study of privacy of digital government services.Today we have with us, from Waterfront Toronto, Meg Davies, chief development officer; and Kristina Verner, vice-president, innovation, sustainability and prosperity. From the Information Technology Association of Canada, we have André Leduc, vice-president, government relations and policy; and Michael Fekete, partner, technology, national innovation leader, Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP.First of all, I'd like to give Mr. Angus a second. He wanted to talk about witnesses.e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]They already are. Now that we have the witnesses invited, we'll get that out to you and make sure you know who has been invited. I'll have that with you today. Committee businessCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]We will follow up with that and do that right away. Are there any questions?Mr. Erskine-Smith. Committee businessCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Okay, will do. Thank you, everybody. Mr. Kent, go ahead. Committee businessCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]We'll do it right away.Committee businessPeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]During the meeting it will go out to your email.Committee businessPeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Thank you. We'll start off, with apologies to our guests. We're just covering some committee business. Ms. Davis, you have 10 minutes, please. Committee businessPeterKentHon.ThornhillMegDavis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you.We'll go next to Mr. Leduc for 10 minutes.MegDavisAndréLeduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Excuse me, Mr. Fekete.You are about a minute over. Are you just about complete?MichaelFeketeMichaelFekete//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]I'm going to have to clip you to about 10 to 15 seconds at the most.MichaelFeketeMichaelFekete//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you.We'll go first of all to Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes.MichaelFeketeNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith. Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Kent.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Saini.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Vaughan.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Gourde.AdamVaughanSpadina—Fort YorkJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English] You're out of time. Thank you, Mr. Gourde.I believe there are going to be some members splitting time again. Next up, we have Ms. Vandenbeld for five minutes.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Yes, Mr. Angus.Committee witnessese-GovernmentParliamentary Secretary — Non-Voting MemberPoints of orderPrivacy and data protectionCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Yes. I don't believe there's a point of order, but fair enough.Go ahead, Mr. Vaughan.Committee witnessese-GovernmentParliamentary Secretary — Non-Voting MemberPoints of orderPrivacy and data protectionAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—NepeanAdamVaughanSpadina—Fort York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Vaughan. That's time.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent.AdamVaughanSpadina—Fort YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent. Next up for five minutes is Madam Fortier. KristinaVernerMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Mr. Erskine-Smith. MonaFortierOttawa—VanierNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]The time is well past, so just a brief answer, please, if you can.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkKristinaVerner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Thank you.We'll go to Mr. Angus for three minutes.KristinaVernerCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]We're at time.I believe there is one more question from Mr. Erskine-Smith. Go ahead.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]I have one with Mr. Vaughan. That's not one speaking slot, that's one question. and one question for you, Charlie.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]The understanding was that this would be the last. There's a target time we aim for on Thursdays.Mr. Erskine-Smith, did you want to speak to that?CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Yes, we can split up to five minutes. That's fine.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]One last five minutes: I think that's easy to manage. Who would like to go first?Mr. Vaughan, go ahead. The remainder of the time is four minutes, I believe. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayAdamVaughanSpadina—Fort York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]It looks like we're done.I want to thank all of the witnesses for appearing today. Thanks, Mr. Fekete, out in TV land.Have a good weekend, everybody. The meeting is adjourned.AdamVaughanSpadina—Fort York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English]I'll call to order meeting 136 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics for our study, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), of the privacy of digital government services.Today we have with us Alex Benay, chief information officer of the Government of Canada; Aaron Snow, chief executive officer, Canadian Digital Service; Ruth Naylor, executive director of the information and privacy policy division, chief information officer branch, Treasury Board of Canada; and last but not least, John O'Brien, director, security and reliability engineering, Canadian Digital Service.It's my understanding that Mr. Benay and Mr. Snow will each speak for 10 minutes, so go ahead, starting with Mr. Benay for 10 minutes.e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionAlexBenay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Mr. Benay.Next up, for 10 minutes, is Mr. Snow.AlexBenayAaronSnow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you both.First up for questions, for seven minutes, is Mr. Saini.AaronSnowRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Mr. Snow, do you have something to add?RajSainiKitchener CentreAaronSnow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Kent.AaronSnowPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for seven minutes, we have Mr. Angus.Go ahead.AlexBenayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Erskine-Smith.RuthNaylorNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up, we have monsieur Gourde for five minutes.AlexBenayJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English] Give just a very short answer.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreAlexBenay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you.We're way past time. AlexBenayJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Maybe you can answer later on. We have a fair amount of time.Next up, for five minutes, is Ms. Vandenbeld.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]The time's up.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent.AaronSnowPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Next up for five minutes is Madam Fortier, and then it will be Mr. Angus. PeterKentHon.ThornhillMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thirty seconds.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English] Mr. Angus, for three minutes.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English] Thank you, everybody.How many people still have questions?We're going to have rounds of seven minutes for each party, and if there are further questions we'll take them too. Just let me know. We'll start with the Liberals. Nathaniel, you have seven minutes. Then we have the Conservatives and then the NDP each for seven minutes. Go ahead.AaronSnowNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith. We're at time.I'll go to Mr. Kent for seven minutes.Oh, Monsieur Gourde, go ahead, please. AlexBenayJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]You have about a minute.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]You're good. Okay.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Angus.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]I just have one last question.Mr. Benay, you talked about using Google Docs as part of the interaction, I guess, with our citizens. It's ease of interaction, too, is key to it all. But one thing our committee's been concerned about is the state of collection and the huge data companies that they are, whether Amazon, Google, Facebook, etc. We see this marriage happening: It might be that we eventually go to vote on Facebook. Maybe there's an app that we use. Maybe that's a subjective thing to think about, but a concern to a lot of us in this room.As you're part of our bureaucracy that's making this system for government, what recommendations, regulatory-wise, would you make on some of these big-data platforms? You've established the fence around our data, as Canadian citizens.Maybe this is more for Mr. O'Brien. What regulations would you, in your personal opinion, apply to these big-data companies?e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionPrivate sectorRajSainiKitchener CentreJohnO'Brien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]Let me ask it as a citizen, though. You're ones who use these. You use Google, I'm sure, and all the rest of them.e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionPrivate sectorJohnO'BrienJohnO'Brien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Okay.Mr. Snow.AlexBenayAaronSnow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Ms. Naylor, do you have any response as well?AaronSnowRuthNaylor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Okay.Are there any further questions?Go ahead, Mr. Angus.RuthNaylorCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Is there any response?CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]I can write them a letter to explain what we've actually done, and send the report along with it, if that would help.Committee businessNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Would you like to move a motion to have the minister appear?Committee businessCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]I'm not sure. Our current clerk is under the weather today. We'll find out when he comes back.Committee businessNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]I'll write the letter and send it. I will raise one last thing. The International Grand Committee has been proceeding. We're going to do a press release, I believe tomorrow. I thought it was clear already, but I've been asked by our current clerk as well about doing releases and giving permission as chair to do the release. Is that still the case? I thought we already approved that. 8510-421-438 "Addressing Digital Privacy Vulnerabilites and Potential Threats to Canada's Democratic Electoral Process"Committee businessCorrespondence and lettersDecisions in committeeElectoral systemMeta Platforms Inc.MotionsPrivacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesStanding Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and EthicsCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Yes. They released it on Monday, I believe, and I challenge all of us here to read it. There is an acknowledgement of our presence there too, on the International Grand Committee. That's a nice tip of the hat to us. Thank you. Thank you again to the presenters for coming. We have a lot of information and a lot of stuff to deal with. Have a great day. The meeting is adjourned.CharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English] We'll call to order meeting 135 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), on the study of the privacy of digital government services. Today we have witnesses as individuals. We have Jeffrey Roy, Professor, School of Public Administration, Dalhousie University; David Eaves, Lecturer in Public Policy, Digital HKS, Harvard Kennedy School; and last but not least, Amanda Clarke, Assistant Professor, Carleton University.Before we get into it, I wanted to say that most of you have seen by now the release about the International Grand Committee. It was sent out at noon today. This morning I spoke with Damian Collins, the U.K. chair, as well. It's going to be a developing story as things roll out. We'll send out requests for groups to appear. Likewise, we'll be adding countries to those that we already have. That will be forthcoming. If you want any further information, feel free to ask. Madame Fortier had submitted a witness. I just wanted to say, for the record, that you can submit witnesses at any point. We had a deadline just because we needed an initial number to get going. If you have a witness who you think would benefit the committee, send the name to the clerk or to my office and we'll make sure it gets put on the list. That said, I do want to get the witness list to you—where we stand right now—so you know where your witness is in the queue.I have a question from Charlie.e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus. Are there any further comments?Okay, we'll get going. To all the witnesses today, thank you for appearing. You have 10 minutes.We'll start with Ms. Clarke—ladies first.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayAmandaClarke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English] Ms. Clarke, our interpreters are having a hard time keeping up with you. Can you just slow it down a little bit? Thank you.AmandaClarkeAmandaClarke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you, Ms. Clarke.AmandaClarkeAmandaClarke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]You're a minute over already. If you can do it in 10 seconds, go ahead.AmandaClarkeAmandaClarke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you, Ms. Clarke.Next up is Jeffrey Roy, for 10 minutes.AmandaClarkeJeffreyRoy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you once again. Our last witness for today is Mr. Eaves, for 10 minutes.JeffreyRoyDavidEaves//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Go ahead and finish up.DavidEavesDavidEaves//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]That's perfect. Thank you very much.We'll start the first seven-minute round with Mr. Saini.DavidEavesRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Next up, for seven minutes, we have Mr. Kent.RajSainiKitchener CentrePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent. Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.DavidEavesPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up for seven minutes we have Mr. Erskine-Smith.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.One thing I would just challenge Ms. Clarke with is this: If you see a point to inject your opinion, feel free to do so. It's up to the members to decide whom to include in their question and who answers that question, but if you see a gap, feel free to jump right in.DavidEavesAmandaClarke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Except time is up for you now....Voices: Oh, oh!The Chair: We'll go to Mr. Gourde next, for five minutes, and then maybe you'll have a shot.Go ahead.AmandaClarkeJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you. That is your time.The next five minutes will be split between Ms. Vandenbeld and Monsieur Picard.AmandaClarkeAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you, Mr. Picard.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Kent.DavidEavesPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Last up, we have Mr. Sikand for five minutes.PeterKentHon.ThornhillGaganSikandMississauga—Streetsville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Picard, for two minutes, if you have a short question.GaganSikandMississauga—StreetsvilleMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Ms. Murray has asked for one question.Go ahead.MichelPicardMontarvilleJoyceMurrayVancouver Quadra//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you.I have one last thing, a bit of committee business. Supplementary estimates (B) were tabled this morning, so I want to ask if it is the will of the room to have the minister appear in the future. I've already talked to Mike here, and there's availability on March 19 or 21. Is there a preference? That's when there are openings.Committee businessJoyceMurrayVancouver QuadraPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]We'll proceed on that.With that, I want to thank all the witnesses for coming today. I appreciate your testimony at our committee. Thank you.The meeting is adjourned.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1545)[English] Welcome, everybody, to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, and meeting number 134, on the privacy of digital government services. We have with us today, as individuals, David Carroll, associate professor, Parsons School of Design, The New School; Chris Vickery, director of cyber risk research, UpGuard; and, from Digital Content Next, Jason Kint, chief executive officer.Before we get to you guys—again, our apologies for voting, which is why we're here a little late—we have a motion that was discussed on Thursday that we're going to bring forward.Mr. Kent, go ahead.e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Is there any discussion on the changes to the motion?PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Mr. Cullen.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanCullenSkeena—Bulkley Valley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]I'm just getting word that you would have to get Mr. Gourde to amend your own motion.Committee businessNathanCullenSkeena—Bulkley ValleyPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Mr. Gourde said he would amend it per the above. That's good.Is there any further discussion? (Amendment agreed to)The Chair: All in favour of the motion?PeterKentHon.ThornhillMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]As amended, thank you. (Motion as amended agreed to)The Chair: Thanks, everybody.We'll get going. Mr. Carroll, would you start, please? You have 10 minutes.Committee businessMonaFortierOttawa—VanierDavidCarroll//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you, Mr. Carroll. Next up, we'll go to Mr. Vickery via teleconference, and then to Mr. Kint, afterwards.Go ahead, Mr. Vickery.DavidCarrollChrisVickery//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you once again, Mr. Vickery.We'll go to Mr. Kint, for 10 minutes. ChrisVickeryJasonKint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kint.We'll start with a seven-minute round of questions. First, we have Mr. Erskine-Smith.JasonKintNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Kent. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you. You have five seconds.JasonKintPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]We'll come back. We'll have time after.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Cullen. Thank you for coming back and gracing us with your presence again in committee. It's good to have you back. PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanCullenSkeena—Bulkley Valley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Cullen. We will have time at the end, I'm sure, to ask all the questions that need to be asked. I presume that, but we have lots to ask.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Baylis.DavidCarrollFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.Next up for five minutes we have Mr. Gourde.JasonKintJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Madame Fortier, for five minutes.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]You have one minute and 30 seconds.ChrisVickeryMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Next up, for five minutes, we have Mr. Kent.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up, for five minutes, Michel.DavidCarrollMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[English]Thank you.Before I go to our last questioner on the list, we do have some time, about 20 minutes, so if you still have a question to ask, just signal the chair. We will put your name down and we will go the full time.You have three minutes, Mr. Johns.MichelPicardMontarvilleGordJohnsCourtenay—Alberni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]Thank you. We have three five-minute rounds here.We'll start with Mr. Saini, Ms. Vandenbeld, and then Mr. Erskine-Smith to finish.Go ahead, Mr. Saini.DavidCarrollRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[English]You have three minutes.RajSainiKitchener CentreRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]You have a minute.RajSainiKitchener CentreRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Next up is Ms. Vandenbeld.DavidCarrollAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1720)[English]Last up is Mr. Erskine-Smith.AnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—NepeanNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]As the chair, I'm just going to ask one question.Not to be overly simplistic, I see the solution as quite simple. The penalties are one thing that we heard from the information commissioner in the U.K. too, and something that we need to have on this side in limiting data collection, and understanding that data is a multi-level thing, not just data in a general sense. You have the floor with us. We're listening to exactly what you say. What I'm going to ask all three of you is simply this. If you have one last thing you really want us to hang onto, what would it be? What would you leave us with in regard to what we're talking about today on data collection and government services, or just in general? We'll start with Mr. Vickery. e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkChrisVickery//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]We do have time for this, but what you mean, “worse than we think”? Could you explain that a bit? e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionChrisVickeryChrisVickery//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]Thank you, Mr. Vickery.Mr. Carroll, and then Mr. Kint. ChrisVickeryDavidCarroll//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[English]Mr. Kint.DavidCarrollJasonKint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]I would finish by thanking all of you for appearing today. I know some of you travelled many miles to get here and I appreciate your trip. Your testimony today is invaluable. Again, thank you for your testimony and for coming to Canada. JasonKintJasonKint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1730)[English]The meeting is adjourned. DavidCarroll//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1530)[English]Welcome, everybody. Per the notice of meeting this is meeting 133 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. The study is on the privacy of digital government services.Today we have with us somebody we've had several times before, Daniel Therrien, Privacy Commissioner of Canada. We also have Gregory Smolynec, deputy commissioner, policy and promotion sector, and Lara Ives, executive director, policy, research and parliamentary affairs directorate.Before I go to Mr. Therrien, I want to go to Mr. Kent quickly.e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Mr. Saini.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]The security task force, I think it is.Committee businessPeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Is it Raj next and then Charlie?PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Angus.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Just to be clear, are you providing words for Mr. Kent?Committee businessCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[English]Ms. Fortier.PeterKentHon.ThornhillMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English] We're going to Mr. Therrien's testimony first, and then we'll come back to it after. Is that fine?MonaFortierOttawa—VanierPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Is that fair, Mr. Angus?Committee businessPeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]We're going to vote.Committee businessCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]We're voting on adjourning the debate. (Motion agreed to)Committee businessNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]I guess we'll get—BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Okay. Sure. Mr. Therrien, go ahead.PeterKentHon.ThornhillDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you again, Mr. Therrien.First up for seven minutes, we have a combination of Nate and David to start. Go ahead.DanielTherrienNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]You're out of time.David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]We'll go to Mr. Kent for the next seven minutes.David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabellePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Saini.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Next up for five minutes is Mr. Gourde.RajSainiKitchener CentreJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Yes, I think it has subsided now. I ask everybody in the room that if you're going to have a conversation that's loud enough to hear from the table here, to move into the hallway.Thank you.Go ahead, Mr. Gourde.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English] Okay, thank you.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Baylis.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1620)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.Mr. Kent, you're next up for five minutes.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Last up is Monsieur Picard.PeterKentHon.ThornhillMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English] Thank you, Mr. Picard.I have Mr. Angus for the last few minutes. I was asked to split some time by two other members who haven't had a chance to ask a question. We'll do that following Mr. Angus, and then we'll go to the motion that was brought up before.We'll go to Mr. Angus for three minutes.DanielTherrienCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.We're going to go to Ms. Vandenbeld for two and a half minutes, and then....CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Okay. Go ahead.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you, all.Thanks to the commissioner and his staff for appearing before us today. It's always thoughtful and this issue seems to be ever growing, so again, thanks for coming today. AnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—NepeanDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]For the rest of the committee, we're going to stay for a minute, just to address the motion that was presented prior to Mr. Therrien's testimony.We'll go back to Mr. Kent, first, and then to Mr. Angus. DanielTherrienPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]It sounds like it's been a discussion that's been rather loud during the committee meeting, so next time, I would ask that it be a little quieter. It sounds like we're going to deal with this on Tuesday, so have a good weekend, everybody. Yes, Mr. Angus.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thanks, everybody. Have a good weekend.The meeting is adjourned.CharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1535)[English] Good day, everybody. Welcome back—it's 2019—to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting 132.Before we get to our guests, we have some committee business. We have a couple of things. It's not necessary to go in camera. Most of us in this room know about the international grand committee and the work we did in London. Charlie, Nathaniel and I went over in late November to join eight other countries to talk about this. Canada is picking up the torch where they left off. We're going to host it in Ottawa on May 28; that's what we're proposing. We looked at a date that would work for everybody, or as much as we could make that work, and May 28 seems to be the date.I wanted to put that before the committee to make sure that we have your approval to move forward with it. It will be an all-day meeting, similar to what happened in London. It will start in the morning. We'll have meetings all throughout the day. We'll likely end the day at 4:30. Then we'll proceed into other things.Committee businessInternational Grand CommitteeRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]It's a Tuesday.RajSainiKitchener CentreRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]I wanted to get some feedback on that. Perhaps you could raise your hand or give me a, “Yes, we're good to go”.RajSainiKitchener CentreNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Nate, you wanted to speak to it. Go ahead.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Perfect.Is that enough direction?Mr. Kent.Committee businessInternational Grand CommitteeNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]It's a good question. There's a limit of about $40,000, so it's keeping it below that. I don't think that will be a problem.Mike.Committee businessInternational Grand CommitteePeterKentHon.ThornhillMichaelMacPherson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Go ahead, Mike.Committee businessInternational Grand CommitteePeterKentHon.ThornhillMichaelMacPherson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]We'll be working a lot with Mike and the analysts to make sure it all comes to fruition. We want to make it an event that is really the next step in what we've already done. We look forward to it.Committee businessInternational Grand CommitteePeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]Do you have any comments, Mr. Angus?Committee businessInternational Grand CommitteePeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[English]We will keep a list of witnesses and keep you informed about who we're asking to the function. I think that name came up as one that will be on the list.Do members have anything more to say about the international grand committee? Do we have sufficient direction?Thank you, everybody. We'll pursue that.Now we have the notice of motion. We talked a little bit about this.Mr. Angus, go ahead.Committee businessInternational Grand CommitteeNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]You'll just withhold it for now?Committee businessInternational Grand CommitteeCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Getting back to the regular agenda, today we welcome two witnesses: as an individual, Dr. Geist, Canada Research Chair in Internet and E-Commerce Law, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa; and via teleconference, Ann Cavoukian, Privacy by Design Centre of Excellence, Ryerson University. We'll start off with you, Ms. Cavoukian. e-GovernmentPrivacy and data protectionCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayAnnCavoukian//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[English]Thank you, Ms. Geist. I'm sorry, Ms. Cavoukian. I'm a little ahead of myself. Voices: Oh, oh!The Chair: We will move to Dr. Geist for 10 minutes, please.e-GovernmentAnnCavoukianMichaelGeist//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you, Dr. Cavoukian and Dr. Geist.We'll start off with Mr. Saini for seven minutes.e-GovernmentMichaelGeistRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Next is Mr. Kent for seven minutes.MichaelGeistPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English] Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up is Mr. Angus for seven minutes.MichaelGeistCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up is Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes.MichaelGeistNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English] Thank you, Dr. Cavoukian—AnnCavoukianAnnCavoukian//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you.We have votes coming up at 5:30 p.m., and we have a bit of committee business that I have to take in camera for about five minutes, so I would look to be done at about 4:50 p.m., if that's possible. We'll go to Mr. Gourde for five minutes.AnnCavoukianJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1630)[English]Thank you, Monsieur Gourde.Next up is Mr. Baylis for five minutes.AnnCavoukianFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]If she can answer in 20 seconds that would be great.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardAnnCavoukian//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.Next up, for another five minutes, is Mr. Kent.AnnCavoukianPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]You have 30 seconds, Mr. Kent.MichaelGeistPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[English]Thank you, Dr. Cavoukian.Next up is Mr. de Burgh Graham for five minutes.AnnCavoukianDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1645)[English]Thank you. That's it.Next up, for another three minutes, is Mr. Angus.Before you get going, we do have a bit of time. The bells don't start until 5:15 p.m., and we're going to push that to about the 5:05 p.m. range, so don't feel rushed. I think we have time to get everybody finished.Go ahead, Mr. Angus.AnnCavoukianCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.We have a couple of questioners left, which will take us to the end of our time.We have Anita Vandenbeld and Monsieur Picard.MichaelGeistMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Go ahead. MichelPicardMontarvilleMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[English]Thank you. I think we're done for time. Thank you very much, Dr. Cavoukian and Dr. Geist, for coming. This subject is a big one. We've stumbled upon this iceberg, as we've mentioned, many times, and it just seems to be growing, but thank you for your time today.We're going to go in camera to do some committee business for five minutes. [Proceedings continue in camera]MonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1100)[English] Welcome, everybody, to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting number 131. It's Tuesday, December 11. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), this is a study on the breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook. Today we'd like to welcome Mr. O'Connor, from Ontario Proud. Do you have opening comment? Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesRyanO'Connor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1100)[English] You have 10 minutes to make that presentation. We do have impending votes. I will seek unanimous consent to continue until about 11:15 a.m. or so, because we're in the building. Is that fine with everybody?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Okay.Go ahead, Mr. O'Connor.RyanO'ConnorRyanO'Connor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1100)[English]Mr. O'Connor, I'm going to stop you for a second. We're at about 11:04 a.m. I'm going to seek unanimous consent to continue until about 11:19 a.m. Then we'll suspend, go vote, and then come back after votes. Do I have unanimous consent?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: Okay. Please continue, Mr. O'Connor.RyanO'ConnorRyanO'Connor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Thank you, Mr. O'Connor.We'll start with Nathaniel Erskine-Smith for seven minutes. It will probably be the only question we will get, and then we'll have to suspend. Go ahead, Mr. Erskine-Smith.RyanO'ConnorNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English]We're out of time.We're going to suspend. We'll come back after the votes, Mr. O'Connor. See you in about a half an hour.(1115)(1145)RyanO'ConnorBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[English] I will call the meeting back to order, everyone. Thanks for making it back.We ended with Mr. Erskine-Smith when we suspended. Now we're going to Mr. Kent for seven minutes.BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.RyanO'ConnorCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up, we have Ms. Fortier for seven minutes.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]That's the time. Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up, for five minutes, is Monsieur Gourde.RyanO'ConnorJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up, for five minutes, we have Monsieur Picard.RyanO'ConnorMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Okay.Is it Mr. Erskine-Smith or Mr. Baylis?MichelPicardMontarvilleNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Baylis.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis. That's the time.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Kent.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English]You have another minute. No? Okay.We'll go over to Mr. Erskine-Smith for five, and then to Mr. Angus for five after that.Go ahead.PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1230)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Last up, for three minutes, is Mr. Angus.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.I think you've just been asked to provide some evidence. I would advise you to provide that to the committee. I'd also like to thank you for coming today, Mr. O'Connor.I'm told this is the second-to-last meeting in this room before this building is closed for 10 years. It's something some of us won't experience again.We're going to go into committee business, so we'll suspend for about five minutes to get everybody out. Then we'll talk for about five or 10 minutes, and we'll be done for the day.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]It has already been agreed that we're done.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]I would challenge him right now to provide to the committee any information that he's been asked to provide. If he refuses to do so, then we can take further action. Is that fair?Okay, we will suspend for about two minutes.[Proceedings continue in camera] Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1200)[English] We're going to call the meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics and it's meeting 130. Pursuant to Standing Order 106(4), the meeting was requested by four members of the committee to discuss the situation surrounding investigations into the activities of the member for Brampton East. I have first up to speak Mr. Kent and then Mr. Angus.Criminal investigations and hearingsGrewal, RajMeeting requested by four members of the CommitteeReferences to membersPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Mr. Gourde.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English] Next up is Mr. Kent.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièrePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]Thank you.Mr. Erskine-Smith.PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]Mr. Angus.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English] Mr. Kent.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Are you officially amending that?Criminal investigations and hearingsGrewal, RajReferences to membersPeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]He's proposing that, so are there any comments?Criminal investigations and hearingsGrewal, RajReferences to membersPeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Angus.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Okay.The question now is on the amendment to the motion. Is there any further discussion?I did have Mr. Saini. Did you have your hand up? Okay, I thought you did. Let's vote on the friendly amendment, as Mr. Angus termed it. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Will you abstain, or will you...?NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]It comes down to you, though, so are you supporting it, or are you...?NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Okay.(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])Chair: Just to be clear, you have abstained from that, correct? I just wanted to make sure, for the clerk's purposes.So now we have the amended motion before us. Is there any further discussion on the amended motion? (Motion as amended negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])Chair: Thanks, and we'll see you on Tuesday.The meeting is adjourned.Criminal investigations and hearingsDecisions in committeeGrewal, RajMotionsReferences to membersNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1305)[English] I call the meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting 125.Pursuant to Standing Order 106(4), this is a meeting requested by four members of the committee to discuss their request to undertake a study of communications between the President of the Treasury Board and the Irving Group of Companies.Mr. Kent.Committee businessCommittee studies and activitiesPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Is there any discussion?Mr. Erskine-Smith.PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]Is there any further discussion? Anybody else?NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]Okay.The question is on the motion of Mr. Kent.(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 3)The Chair: Yes, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Committee businessCommittee studies and activitiesDecisions in committeeInformation and communicationMotionsPrivy Council OfficeRecorded divisionsPeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]Is there any discussion?NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]What day are you looking for?PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]We have Mr. Kent and then Mr. Saini.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]Let me just remind members that we're getting into committee business and this is televised currently. I don't know if we still want to have that as part of our televised presentation or....PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]Okay.Basically our schedule for next week is open. We're looking at discussing committee business on Tuesday. We're actually looking at a more fulsome...because of what Commissioner Therrien said today about his reports coming out in December.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1310)[English]Just hold on a second. There was to be a discussion, and also about the London trip, too. That was all to be taken into account in our final report. I would advise that we do that. We might want to do that in the spring, but that might be too late, but it should be at least by the end of this next month, after November's expired. Are there any thoughts on that?PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Let's deal with the motion, then, on the table. Is there any further discussion on the motion of Mr. Erskine-Smith?NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]We're good?Mr. Davies.PeterKentHon.ThornhillDonDaviesVancouver Kingsway//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]As chair, I will take the motions as they are presented on the table, unless Mr. Angus has a motion to that effect. I don't know if that's been done yet.DonDaviesVancouver KingswayDonDaviesVancouver Kingsway//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]I have to deal with the motions as they are presented before me.DonDaviesVancouver KingswayDonDaviesVancouver Kingsway//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]That would have to be up to the motion—DonDaviesVancouver KingswayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Are we okay to vote on the current motion as it sits now? All in favour of Mr. Erskine-Smith's motion?(Motion agreed to)The Chair: We have another motion by Mr. Erskine-Smith. Sorry, Mr. Saini, you did have your hand up to speak.Committee businessCommittee studies and activitiesDonDaviesVancouver KingswayRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Okay, to be clear, you're going to go before Mr. Saini.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Again, we can probably have a more fulsome discussion of scheduling on Tuesday.RajSainiKitchener CentreRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English] Is there any further discussion about Mr. Saini's motion?Mr. Kent.RajSainiKitchener CentrePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]I'm conscious of the time, too. It's getting close to 1:20 and we should be heading over to QP in short order. Is there any further discussion about Mr. Saini's motion?(Motion agreed to)The Chair: Mr. Erskine-Smith.Committee businessCommittee studies and activitiesRajSainiKitchener CentreNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English] Okay, could you just repeat that again for everybody around the table? NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]I'm just saying Mr. Davies had an interest in a specific topic.Does that meet your requirements?NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkDonDaviesVancouver Kingsway//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Okay, is there any further discussion about the motion?(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])The Chair: That is carried. Is that all for...?Committee businessCommittee studies and activitiesDonDaviesVancouver KingswayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1315)[English]Okay, we'll adjourn. We will have committee business on Tuesday. Have a good day.The meeting is adjourned. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1130)[English] Welcome, everyone, to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting number 124. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we are studying a breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook.Today we have two sections. Each will be about 45 minutes, slightly shortened based on the votes we just had. From Elections Canada, we have Stéphane Perrault, Chief Electoral Officer; and Anne Lawson, deputy chief electoral officer, regulatory affairs. From the CRTC, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, we have Rachelle Frenette, legal counsel; Scott Hutton, executive director, broadcasting; and Neil Barratt, director, electronic commerce enforcement. We'll start with Mr. Perrault. Go ahead. Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]Thank you, Mr. Perrault.Next up we'll have Mr. Hutton, for 10 minutes.StéphanePerraultScottHutton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[English]Thank you, Mr. Hutton.We'll go to the first round, beginning with Ms. Vandenbeld for seven minutes.ScottHuttonAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Thank you.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Kent.StéphanePerraultPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Davies.PeterKentHon.ThornhillDonDaviesVancouver Kingsway//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Thank you.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Saini.DonDaviesVancouver KingswayRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]All right. You have four minutes.RajSainiKitchener CentreNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]Thanks, everybody. We're out of time.I just have one question for both witnesses. I've been doing a lot of media responses, just about Facebook, Cambridge Analytica and our joint investigation. We're actually going to go over to London and try to hear from Facebook, especially Mr. Zuckerberg. My biggest concern is the timely response to pull down, let's say, a third party ad that's going to negatively impact a campaign. We all know that the last week in the campaign is crucial, and it can be affected by the littlest of ads.In terms of a timely response to groups like Facebook and other social media platforms, what do you suggest we do with that to have a quick response that really mutes that immediately?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkStéphanePerrault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Thank you.Go ahead, Mr. Hutton.StéphanePerraultScottHutton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Okay. Thank you, everybody. Thanks for appearing at committee today. I apologize for the brevity of the presentations. There are a lot of questions to be asked still, but thank you. We'll wait for the next witnesses to come up. We'll give them about five minutes.(1215)(1215)ScottHuttonBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]I call the meeting back to order. Again, this is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting 124, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), the study of the breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook. This is the second round. We'd like to welcome back Commissioner Therrien, the Privacy Commissioner of Canada; Brent Homan, deputy commissioner, compliance sector; Gregory Smolynec, deputy commissioner, policy and promotion sector; and Julia Barss, general counsel and director of legal services, legal services directorate.BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Welcome back, Mr. Therrien. Go ahead for 10 minutes.BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1230)[English] Thank you, Mr. Therrien, for your testimony.We'll go first to Mr. Baylis for seven minutes.DanielTherrienFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]We're at time, so could we have just a quick answer, please?FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.We'll go next to Mr. Kent for seven minutes.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.DanielTherrienPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Davies.PeterKentHon.ThornhillDonDaviesVancouver Kingsway//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1250)[English]Thank you, Mr. Davies.Last up, for seven minutes of shared time, we Mr. Picard and Ms. Fortier. DanielTherrienMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1300)[English] Thank you, Mr. Picard.Thank you, everybody. Again, thank you, Commissioner Therrien, for having an abridged presentation. I know it's tough to squeeze it all into 45 minutes or less. I appreciate your efforts on the file, too. I know there's a lot to cover, and I know you're spread on multiple fronts, as we are. Thanks for you presentation today.MichelPicardMontarvilleDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1300)[English]Thank you.The meeting is adjourned.DanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1100)[English] Good morning, everyone.This is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting 123. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), this is the study of the breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook.Today we have with us from the Conservative Party of Canada, Trevor Bailey, the privacy officer and director of membership; from the Liberal Party of Canada, Michael Fenrick, constitutional and legal adviser, national board of directors; and from the New Democratic Party, Jesse Calvert, director of operations.We'll start off with Mr. Bailey for 10 minutes.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesTrevorBailey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[English]Thank you, Mr. Bailey.Next up is Mr. Fenrick for 10 minutes.TrevorBaileyMichaelFenrick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English]Mr. Fenrick, you're about 15 seconds over. Are you just about at your conclusion?MichaelFenrickMichaelFenrick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English]Thank you, Mr. Fenrick.Next up, from the New Democratic Party, we have Jesse Calvert. Go ahead, for 10 minutes. MichaelFenrickJesseCalvert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1120)[English]Thank you, Mr. Calvert.We'll start off with Mr. Saini for seven minutes.JesseCalvertRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1130)[English]Thank you, Mr. Bailey, and Mr. Saini.Next up, for seven minutes, we have Mr. Kent.TrevorBaileyPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]We're out of time, but Mr. Fenrick and Mr. Calvert, would you like to follow through with a quick answer?TrevorBaileyMichaelFenrick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]Mr. Calvert, quickly....MichaelFenrickJesseCalvert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1140)[English]Thank you.Next up, we have Mr. Angus for seven minutes.JesseCalvertCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Baylis.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.Next up for five minutes we have Monsieur Gourde.JesseCalvertJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[English]We'll start off with Mr. Calvert.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreJesseCalvert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[English]We're actually out of time so just a brief response, maybe 10 seconds or less, if you can.MichaelFenrickTrevorBailey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Picard.TrevorBaileyMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Thank you. You're next up for five minutes, Mr. Kent.MichelPicardMontarvillePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent and everybody.Next up is Madame Fortier for five minutes.JesseCalvertMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Could we get brief answers from Mr. Calvert or Mr. Fenrick?MonaFortierOttawa—VanierMichaelFenrick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Mr. Calvert, it has to be a much quicker answer than that, if you can.MichaelFenrickJesseCalvert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Well done.Mr. Cullen, you're last up. Welcome back. You have three minutes.JesseCalvertNathanCullenSkeena—Bulkley Valley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English]Three minutes go by very quickly, Mr. Cullen.NathanCullenSkeena—Bulkley ValleyNathanCullenSkeena—Bulkley Valley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English]That's a great question to leave hanging in the room as we close today.Thank you for coming today, Mr. Bailey, Mr. Fenrick and Mr. Calvert. We much appreciate your attendance at our committee as the officially recognized parties. Again, thank you for your appearance today.The meeting is adjourned.NathanCullenSkeena—Bulkley Valley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1140)[English]I call the meeting to order. Welcome, everybody, to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting 122. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we are studying the breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook.Today we have Mr. Colin McKay again, from Google Canada.Please go ahead. You have 10 minutes.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesColinMcKay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Thank you, Mr. McKay.We'll start off with Mr. Baylis for seven minutes.ColinMcKayFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.Next up is Mr. Kent, for seven minutes.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent. Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.ColinMcKayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus. Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Erskine-Smith.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English]No worries. You will have time for more questions coming up.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Clement.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkTonyClementHon.Parry Sound—Muskoka//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English]Next up for five minutes is Monsieur Picard.TonyClementHon.Parry Sound—MuskokaMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]Thank you, Mr. Picard.Next up, for another five minutes, is Mr. Kent.MichelPicardMontarvillePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English]Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kent.Just before we finish the round, we're going to let it go again. If there are any questions, they can be asked. We have until one o'clock. We also have some committee business at the very end for about 10 minutes.Mr. Angus, you have three minutes.ColinMcKayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]It looks like we have one more question from each party, so we'll start off with Ms. Vandenbeld and then go to Mr. Kent and Mr. Angus. We should be done then, but we'll see where the time goes.Goahead, Ms. Vandenbeld.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1255)[English]We have a couple of minutes left. If we can divide that up, it would be great.ColinMcKayPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1255)[English]Go ahead, Mr. Angus, for one minute.ColinMcKayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1255)[English]Thanks to Google and Colin again for coming to our committee.We're going to forgo our committee business. We've made a decision about Thursday. We have the Dutch PM coming to speak, so we're not going to have committee on Thursday, where Facebook would have appeared. We're going to push that to another day.Thank you for your testimony and for taking questions. Have a good day.The meeting is adjourned.ColinMcKay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1100)[English] Welcome, everybody, to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. This is meeting number 119. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we are doing a study of the breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook.The witnesses are Maurice Stucke as an individual and Bianca Wylie from Tech Reset Canada.We'll start off with Ms. Wylie for 10 minutes.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesBiancaWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]You finished within 10 seconds, so that's pretty good.Next up is Mr. Stucke, for 10 minutes, please.BiancaWylieMauriceStucke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1120)[English]Thank you.First up is Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes.MauriceStuckeNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1130)[English]Thanks, Nate.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Kent.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up, for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up is Ms. Vandenbeld for seven minutes.MauriceStuckeAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[English]Ms. Vandenbeld, that's time.Next up for five minutes is Monsieur Gourde.BiancaWylieJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]We had better move on to Mr. Picard, for five minutes.MauriceStuckeMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]You're 20 seconds over, but we're going to have some more time at the end.MichelPicardMontarvilleMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]I'm usually pretty lax with the time. I like to see themes follow through, so rather than cut them off, we want to hear what they have to say.We'll go to Mr. Kent for another five minutes.MichelPicardMontarvillePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up is Mr. Baylis.BiancaWylieFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English] Thank you.Next up for three minutes is Mr. Angus.We're going to go through another round after this and then we have some committee business at the very end. We need to discuss some things in camera.Go ahead Mr. Angus. You have three minutes.MauriceStuckeCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English] Thank you, Mr. Angus.We'll go through another round. I just want to challenge you, Ms. Wylie. You said that you weren't going to respond to Mr. Baylis's question because you thought you weren't qualified to, but I think, for people who see the fire, it's important that you either put it out or you give people who can put it out your information on how to do it. I challenge you. Don't feel like you can't advise us on what it should look like, how to protect our data or how to use our data, etc. You're here for a reason, so feel free to give us your opinions. We think you're qualified to be here.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Erskine-Smith.BiancaWylieNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Kent.MauriceStuckePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]Thank you, everybody on the committee, but thank you especially, Maurice and Bianca, for coming today to be here with us. We appreciate your efforts on the file and we look forward to talking to you again. Please send any submissions to our office that you would have for the committee afterwards, any ideas you might not have thought of when you were sitting here. We'd be glad to have them as part of our study. We'll move to suspend for about a minute until we clear the room. We'll go into committee business quickly to talk about a few things. [Proceedings continue in camera]CharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1100)[English] Welcome this morning to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics for meeting number 118. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we are continuing our study of breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook.Today we have as witnesses Elizabeth Dubois, Michael Pal and Samantha Bradshaw.We'll start off with Ms. Dubois for 10 minutes.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesElizabethDubois//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Thank you, Ms. Dubois.Next we have Michael Pal.ElizabethDuboisMichaelPal//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1120)[English]Thank you, Mr. Pal.Last up, via teleconference, we have Samantha Bradshaw.Go ahead for 10 minutes.MichaelPalSamanthaBradshaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1130)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Bradshaw.We will go to Mr. Saini for 10 minutes.SamanthaBradshawRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1140)[English]Thank you.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Kent. ElizabethDuboisPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]There isn't.PeterKentHon.ThornhillMichaelPal//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Yes, you bet. Thank you, Mr. Kent. Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English] Thank you.Next up is Monsieur Picard.SamanthaBradshawMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Thank you.Next up for five minutes we have Mr. Gourde.MichaelPalJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up is Madam Fortier.SamanthaBradshawMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English] Thank you, Madam Fortier. Next up we have Mr. Kent.ElizabethDuboisPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English] Thank you.Next up for five minutes is Ms. Vandenbeld.SamanthaBradshawAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1230)[English]Thank you. Ms. Vandenbeld, that's time.We're going to do another round after this, but the last three-minute round goes to Mr. Angus.ElizabethDuboisCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]We're at the end of our first round.I'm going to ask a question to the panel, if I may.One thing we've talked about in the past is anonymous accounts on Facebook and the platforms that.... They hide in the shadows. They're bots or they're real people who hide in the shadows, or whatever. Should it even be possible to hide in the shadows and not be a public entity? That to me seems like it would be an obvious place to go. An algorithm couldn't impersonate somebody who just isn't there, if they weren't there. It would have to be a real person attached to that particular file or particular program, etc., actually using it. Do you see that as even possible, or is that a place to go? What are your thoughts on that?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesElizabethDuboisElizabethDubois//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]Ms. Bradshaw has something to add.ElizabethDuboisSamanthaBradshaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English] That's interesting.Mr. Pal.SamanthaBradshawMichaelPal//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English]Thank you.First up for the next set of questions I have Mr. Baylis for seven minutes.Go ahead, Mr. Baylis.MichaelPalFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]We're actually out of time. I'm sorry, but we're really tight for the last seven minutes. I have to move on.Mr. Kent, you have seven minutes. MichaelPalPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1255)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent. Last up is Mr. Angus.SamanthaBradshawCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1255)[English]I'll just follow up with what Mr. Angus has asked you. Please pass any ideas and suggestions on to us, and we'll try to have them included in the report for what we see as the future for our democracy.As chair, I want to thank you all for appearing today. The meeting is adjourned.CharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1100)[English] I'll call the meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting 118, and this is a study of the breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook. Today, we have back Zackary Massingham, Chief Executive Officer of AggregateIQ. I'll turn it over to the clerk for a moment for the affirmation. Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesMichaelMacPherson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1100)[English]Thank you, Mr. Massingham. Do you have opening comments? You have 10 minutes.MichaelMacPhersonZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1100)[English]The first question is from Mr. Saini, for seven minutes.ZackaryMassinghamRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1105)[English]Next up we have Mr. Kent, for seven minutes.RajSainiKitchener CentrePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English]About a minute.PeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1115)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1120)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Erskine-Smith.ZackaryMassinghamNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1130)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up for five minutes is Monsieur Gourde.ZackaryMassinghamJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English] Thank you, Monsieur Gourde. We're out of time. Just to make the committee aware, I want to have about 10 or 15 minutes available for committee business at the very end of the meeting. Certainly if we still have questions we'll probably plow through that time and use it for questions, but I just want to let you know that this is the intent today. We have to discuss a few witnesses.Mr. Baylis, are you okay to go? I was ragging the puck for a while.ZackaryMassinghamFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1135)[English]Go ahead for five minutes.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[English]Okay. We're going to—ZackaryMassinghamFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[English]Yes, absolutely. The clerk will follow through with that. Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent. FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1150)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up is Ms. Fortier.ZackaryMassinghamMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[English] What we're going to do is give three minutes to Mr. Angus. He is going to have the last question of this round. We'll go through another round until our 15-minute timeline.Go ahead, Mr. Angus, for three minutes.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.We're going to go to a new round here, starting with Ms. Vandenbeld.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Mr. Saini, you're a minute over, so I have to stop you. Those are great questions, though.Mr. Gourde, you have seven minutes.RajSainiKitchener CentreJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Mr. Angus is up next, for seven minutes.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1215)[English]We're going to suspend for one minute until we get the feed back on.If you need to take a little break, we'll even give you a couple of minutes.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English] We'll call the meeting back to order.Mr. Angus, you've only used up a minute of your time, so proceed.BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1230)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus. I gave you a bit more time, just because of the break.I just have a question for you, Mr. Massingham. Who's in the room with you currently?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesZackaryMassinghamZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1230)[English]Okay. Is that all for who's in the room with you?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesZackaryMassinghamZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1230)[English]The room that you're in currently is in what building? Where are you currently?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesZackaryMassinghamZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1230)[English]Okay. Thank you.Next up is Mr. Picard, for seven minutes.ZackaryMassinghamMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]Thank you, Mr. Picard.Next up is Mr. Kent, for five minutes.MichelPicardMontarvillePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up is our last questioner of the day, Mr. Erskine-Smith.PeterKentHon.ThornhillNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.Mr. Massingham, I have just a couple of questions.At any point in your testimony today, were you coached by Mr. Silvester?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesFrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]At any point in your testimony today, were you advised by Mr. Silvester?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesZackaryMassinghamZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]Okay, I have one last question for you. We'll review the information that you submit to us. I'm going to give you a deadline of Monday at 5 o'clock, Pacific Standard Time, to provide what you've said you're going to provide to us as a committee.Is that sufficient time to get all of that together?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesZackaryMassinghamZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]It's approximately three days.What you submit to me, as chair, and to us as a committee, will be a deciding factor in whether we have you or Mr. Silvester back or not. I advise you to stick to that timeline as much as you can.Again, I'd like to thank you for testifying today before our ethics committee.Thank you.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesZackaryMassinghamZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]We're just going to suspend until we can clear the room to go in camera to talk committee business.[Proceedings continue in camera]ZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (1100)[English] I will call the meeting to order. Welcome back, everyone.This is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting 116, on the breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook. We're going to start off with our teleconference witness. Welcome, Mr. Owen. Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesTaylorOwen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1100)[English]Go ahead. You have 10 minutes.TaylorOwenTaylorOwen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Mr. Owen, you're at just about 11 minutes.TaylorOwenTaylorOwen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]We'll get back to you with some questions maybe, if you want to continue a little later.TaylorOwenTaylorOwen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1110)[English]Thank you, Mr. Owen. Next we have Mr. McKelvey for 10 minutes.TaylorOwenFenwickMcKelvey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1120)[English]Thank you, Mr. McKelvey. Stay tuned. Those parties might show up one day.Next up is Mr. Scott. Go ahead; you have ten minutes.FenwickMcKelveyBenScott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1130)[English]Thank you, Mr. Scott.First up is Mr. Saini, for seven minutes.BenScottRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1140)[English]Thank you, Mr. Scott and Mr. Saini.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Kent.BenScottPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1145)[English]Thanks.We'll move on to Mr. Masse.TaylorOwenBrianMasseWindsor West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[English]You have about 10 seconds. FenwickMcKelveyBrianMasseWindsor West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1155)[English]Wow, three answers in three seconds. That's pretty good.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Erskine-Smith.FenwickMcKelveyNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]You have one second. Unless you can be as quick as Mr. Masse, it's—NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1200)[English]Okay.We have five minutes for Monsieur Gourde.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Hold on, Mr. Owen. We're not getting....Okay, go ahead.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreTaylorOwen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Thank you, Monsieur Gourde.Next up, for five minutes, is Monsieur Picard.FenwickMcKelveyMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]I'll start with Mr. McKelvey and then go to Mr. Scott.BenScottBenScott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1205)[English]Sorry, Mr. Scott. We had Mr. McKelvey first, and then we'll go to you.BenScottBenScott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1210)[English]Thank you, Mr. Picard.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent.TaylorOwenPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for five minutes is Madam Fortier.TaylorOwenMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1220)[English]Mr. Baylis, go ahead.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English] Go ahead, Mr. Masse, for three minutes.We do have some time afterwards if there are further questions to be asked of the group. We have them until 1 p.m. Let me know if you have a question.TaylorOwenBrianMasseWindsor West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English]You have 30 seconds.TaylorOwenBrianMasseWindsor West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1225)[English]Thanks, everyone.We have more time, so does anybody have any further questions?We will start with Mr. Erskine-Smith for five minutes.BrianMasseWindsor WestNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]Hold on. You're out of time. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]Mr. Baylis, you have five minutes.Hold on. There are more in the queue before Ms. Vandenbeld. She just got added to the end. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1235)[English]Okay. FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1240)[English]Thank you, Mr. Owen.Next up, we have Brian Masse for five minutes.TaylorOwenBrianMasseWindsor West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1245)[English]Thank you.Next up, for five minutes, is Monsieur Picard.BrianMasseWindsor WestMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1250)[English]I hate to cut you off, Mr. Scott. We've got to move on to the next questioners.We have two questions to close.We'll go to Mr. Saini and then Mr. Kent, and then we're done. My apologies.BenScottRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1250)[English]Thank you.Last up, we have Mr. Kent.FenwickMcKelveyPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1255)[English]Thank you, everybody, for attending today and providing us with a lot of food for thought.Thanks to the committee for coming today. It's a good first meeting of the session. Thanks again, and we'll talk soon. Have a good day.The meeting is adjourned.PeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (0845)[English] I call to order meeting 112 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), study of breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook. Mr. Vickery, welcome back. Thanks for appearing at our committee again today. Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesChrisVickery//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0845)[English]We'll start our first round with Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes.ChrisVickeryNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0855)[English]Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Gourde.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0900)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.We'll go next to Mr. Boulerice. You have seven minutes.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreAlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-Patrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English]You have about 30 seconds.AlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieAlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-Patrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English]Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Saini.AlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0915)[English]Next up for five minutes is Mr. Aboultaif.ChrisVickeryZiadAboultaifEdmonton Manning//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0920)[English] Sorry, we're well past time.I'll have to move on.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Baylis.ChrisVickeryFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0930)[English]Next up is Monsieur Gourde.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0935)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up is Ms. Vandenbeld.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0940)[English]Last up is Mr. Boulerice for three minutes.MichelPicardMontarvilleAlexandreBoulericeRosemont—La Petite-Patrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0945)[English]That's time. ChrisVickeryNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0945)[English]Yes. I was just going to bring it up about going in camera with Mr. Vickery for a certain period of time. We'll go where that takes us, I guess, and use up the time the committee wants to use up there.Mr. Nathaniel Erskine-Smith: Great.The Chair: As for the recommendations, the recommendations have been given by all parties. We all have them. We don't necessarily need to have them here in person to go over those, but if there are any disagreements about those recommendations—NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]—then we'll have to deal with that, I guess. NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]To my understanding, though, it's fairly straightforward.Mr. Vickery, you do have time, we understand, to go in camera with us in a few minutes?NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkChrisVickery//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]I have a question for you just for the sake of the public. Have you been watching what's going on with the U.K. committee, including yesterday with Mr. Collins and the witness Mr. Nix? Did you have a chance to see the testimony? Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesChrisVickeryChrisVickery//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]Mr. Nix is the former head of Cambridge Analytica. To me, it was just very interesting. It kind of struck me last night, when I was watching it.... When we sit in the House until 12 o'clock at night, one thing we do is watch what the U.K. is doing; I'll admit it. The concern for me as chair—I think it's what we share as chairs on the U.S. side and in the U.K.—is that we're only looking at a couple of companies. This is my concern, I guess. Are we just scratching the surface here?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesChrisVickeryChrisVickery//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]Okay. Thank you, Mr. Vickery.We'll suspend and then reconvene in camera in five minutes.Mr. Chris Vickery: Sounds good.The Chair: Thank you.[Proceedings continue in camera]ChrisVickery//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (0850)[English] Good morning, everybody, and welcome to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics meeting number 109. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we are doing a study of breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook. Today with us is Christopher Wylie, via teleconference from the U.K. Thanks for coming, Mr. Wylie.Have you been made aware that you're going to be sworn in today?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesChristopherWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0850)[English]Okay, so we're going to do that right now.ChristopherWylieChristopherWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0850)[English]Thank you, Mr. Wylie. It's unfortunate that you couldn't be with us today, but we understand you're testifying in the U.K. on the current case that's before Parliament in the U.K. We appreciate it. It would have been nice to have you here, but we realize your obligation is over in the U.K. Would you like to have any opening comments, Mr. Wylie?ChristopherWylieChristopherWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0850)[English]We'll start off. The first question goes to Mr. Erskine-Smith, for seven minutes.ChristopherWylieNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0900)[English] Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Kent.ChristopherWyliePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English]Thank you.We'll come back.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.ChristopherWylieCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0915)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus. Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Baylis.ChristopherWylieFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0925)[English] Thank you, Mr. Baylis.ChristopherWylieFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0925)[English]Go ahead and finish your answer.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardChristopherWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0925)[English]Thank you, Mr. Wylie.Next up for five minutes is Monsieur Gourde.ChristopherWylieJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0930)[English]Thank you.Next up, we have Ms. Vandenbeld.ChristopherWylieAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0935)[English]Thank you.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent.ChristopherWyliePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0945)[English]Next up for five minutes is Mr. Saini.PeterKentHon.ThornhillRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]Next up for three minutes, Mr. Angus. RajSainiKitchener CentreCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0955)[English]Just so everybody knows, we're going to go into the next round right away.There's possibly a time allocation vote that's going to happen within about 20 minutes, so just hang in there, Mr. Wylie. We're going to keep going as much as we can.I don't know if you're okay. Do you need a health break or anything like that, Mr. Wylie?CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayChristopherWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0955)[English]You're good to go.Okay, we'll continue as scheduled with Mr. Picard for seven minutes.ChristopherWylieMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1000)[English]Thank you, Monsieur Picard.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Kent.MichelPicardMontarvillePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1010)[English]Thank you.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1020)[English]Thank you.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Erskine-Smith. ChristopherWylieNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1025)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.As a heads-up, we have bells at 10:56 a.m., and there's a vote at 11:26 a.m. That gives us another half an hour or so. We should be able to get back, but we're going to try to get through as much as we can.Mr. Gourde, for five minutes.ChristopherWylieJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1030)[English] Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up, for five minutes, is Madam Fortier.ChristopherWylieMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English] Thank you.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Kent. ChristopherWyliePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]Thank you.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Baylis. ChristopherWylieFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]The last question goes to Mr. Angus, for three minutes.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English] Thank you.I have a question for you, Mr. Wylie. I have a couple, actually.We have to go to votes here in a few minutes. Are you able to stay to answer a few questions in camera when we come back?ChristopherWylieChristopherWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English]We've already checked, and the building that you're in is going to be open to you, to be accessible to us, at least until 12:45 p.m. That already has been worked out, so you're free to stay.ChristopherWylieChristopherWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English]Okay, I have a question for you, as chair, and then we're going to go to votes and then come back. We'll come back in camera.Have you watched the testimony of Mr. Zack Massingham and Mr. Jeff Silvester when they appeared before our committee in Canada?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesChristopherWylieChristopherWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English]Okay. Is it your opinion, in watching that testimony, that they were untruthful to our committee?Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesChristopherWylieChristopherWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1055)[English]Okay.Could we have unanimous consent to continue for about one minute, and then we'll come back in camera? Okay. Thank you for your testimony, Mr. Wylie. We trust that you'll be back when we come back. We're going to be back around 11:45. You can go and come back—that's fine.As for the committee, we're going to be coming back to ask questions in camera. Is that clear, everybody?We'll suspend just for a few minutes, and we'll see you when we get back, Mr. Wylie.Thank you.[Proceedings continue in camera]ChristopherWylie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC): (1155)[English]I just want to ask Mr. Torino one quickly.You talked about having formerly had a role, and it was the same with Mr. Bernardo, on the Canadian firearms advisory committee, one that crossed party lines. Can you go into your history? One thing we've seen is a polarization and a politicization of this argument, but this was a good example of taking the politics out of decisions made around firearms. Can you speak to that, Mr. Torino?C-71, An Act to amend certain Acts and Regulations in relation to firearmsFirearmsGovernment billsJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—Guildwood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bob Zimmer: (1255)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I think we're talking about two different groups in Canada. We're sent to Ottawa to represent firearms owners and we're also sent here to represent the people who don't own firearms, who maybe even are concerned about firearms ownership. But I think in the argument that we have, we still need to have a rational argument about what is safe to use and what Canadians expect to have the ability to use.I want to ask you this question: do you think anyone in Canada needs a firearm?C-71, An Act to amend certain Acts and Regulations in relation to firearmsFirearmsGovernment billsJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—GuildwoodWendyCukier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bob Zimmer: (1255)[English] That leads me to my next question. We're talking about Bill C-71. We've gone over whether we'll debate whether it's a registry or not. I think what's key for me especially in the debate about a registry isn't just the fact of it being a registry or not. Some care that their name is in a registry. Personally, I own firearms. My name is in a registry because I have restricted firearms. It doesn't bother me. I think it's the use of money in the right place, let's say, because this legislation is supposed to combat gangs and guns. The former registry cost $2 billion. I want to pose a question. You don't need to answer it. It's just for thought. If we were able to put $500 million into extra border security at the U.S.-Canada border to look for exactly that, gangs and guns activity, would you spend it?C-71, An Act to amend certain Acts and Regulations in relation to firearmsFirearmsFirearms registryGovernment billsWendyCukierWendyCukier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bob Zimmer: (1255)[English] We can debate that. You just made a statement that I think is incorrect. You just said that guns coming across the border is not the problem, but your earlier testimony spoke to the fact that guns are coming across the border.C-71, An Act to amend certain Acts and Regulations in relation to firearmsFirearmsGovernment billsWendyCukierWendyCukier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Bob Zimmer: (1255)[English] Again, specifically what we're talking about, from our perspective.... We all don't want to see people using firearms in the wrong way. I don't want anybody to obtain a firearm to either hurt themself or hurt somebody else.The mental part of this and the extension to 10 years doesn't bother me at all either. Again, if something is in somebody's history that is going to possibly make them use a firearm in the wrong way, I want that to be known and to be used. That's where I differ with some opinions.The premise of it, though, is that resources can be better spent elsewhere, rather than putting more regulation on lawful firearm ownership in Canada. That's the principal difference between us as a party and the party opposite. I would rather see the money go toward actually combatting gangs and guns as opposed to just layering more regulations on lawful firearm ownership.That is a finishing statement that I'll make, and I'd like to finish up with it.Thank you, Mr. Chair.C-71, An Act to amend certain Acts and Regulations in relation to firearmsFirearmsGovernment billsWendyCukierJohnMcKayHon.Scarborough—Guildwood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (0845)[English] We'll call the meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), this is a study of breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook.This morning we have it broken out into two hours. United Kingdom Information Commissioner, Ms. Denham, is with us via teleconference. We also have, from the Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner for British Columbia, Mr. McEvoy.We'll start off with Ms. Denham.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesElizabethDenham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0900)[English]Thank you, Ms. Denham.We'll move over to Mr. McEvoy. Go ahead.ElizabethDenhamMichaelMcEvoy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English]All are aware on the committee that we're going to have a certain amount of time to ask public questions, and then after the first five-minute round of questions, we're going to move in camera, so just be prepared for that.We'll start with Mr. Saini.MichaelMcEvoyRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0910)[English]Mr. McEvoy, quickly.ElizabethDenhamMichaelMcEvoy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0910)[English]Next up, for five minutes, is Monsieur Gourde.MichaelMcEvoyJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0915)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up for five minutes, we have Mr. Angus.ElizabethDenhamCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0925)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.The last five minutes go to Mr. Baylis.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0930)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.Before we move in camera, I want to thank you for your co-operation from our committee's perspective and look forward to ongoing co-operation to that effect. We are also exploring all legal options for what this committee can pursue if problems arise from testimony at our committee.ElizabethDenhamBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0955)[English] I call the meeting back to order. My apologies for the quick changeover and the limited time to get settled.I especially want to thank our witnesses today. Colin McKay is Head of Public Policy and Government Relations for Google Canada. We've met before. From the Council of Canadian Innovators, we have Mr. Jim Balsillie. Welcome. Due to our limited time, opening statements are five minutes. We'll start off with Mr. McKay from Google.Thank you.BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesColinMcKay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1000)[English] Thank you, Mr. McKay.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Balsillie.ColinMcKayJimBalsillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1010)[English]Thank you, both Colin and Mr. Balsillie, for your testimony.We'll go to Monsieur Picard for seven minutes.JimBalsillieMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1015)[English]Thank you, Mr. Picard.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Gourde. MichelPicardMontarvilleJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1025)[English]Thank you, Monsieur Gourde.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.JimBalsillieCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1030)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus. I was just talking with Jean-Denis. I'm going to push the meeting as close as we can to 11 a.m.. There's another meeting here at 11 a.m. Without further ado, Mr. Erskine-Smith.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith. I'd love to give you more time.Next up is Mr. McCauley, for five minutes.ColinMcKayKellyMcCauleyEdmonton West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1045)[English]Thank you, Mr. McCauley.Next up, for five minutes, we have Mr. Baylis.JimBalsillieFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis. We're right at the edge here.Thank you to everybody—Mr. AngusColinMcKayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]Absolutely.Are you okay with answering those questions when they come?CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayColinMcKay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]Yes.I just have one question for Mr. Balsillie, and I'm sorry, time is definitely up.You mentioned the term “surveillance capitalism”. I guess the whole reason we're here today was started from a potential voter fraud somewhere across the water in another country. If we don't change our laws in Canada to deal with surveillance capitalism, is our democracy at risk?Cambridge AnalyticaLegislationMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesColinMcKayJimBalsillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1050)[English]Thank you.Thank you all for appearing today.The meeting is adjourned.JimBalsillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (0845)[English] I will call order meeting number 104 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we are studying the breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook.Today we welcome our friends from across the water. From the United Kingdom House of Commons Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee, we have Mr. Damian Collins. Welcome to Canada this morning.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0845)[English]We appreciate your time.Go ahead. We'll hear your opening comments. Then we'll open it up for questions.DamianCollinsDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0845)[English]Thank you, Mr. Collins.We'll open it up for questions, starting with Mr. Erskine-Smith.You have seven minutes.DamianCollinsNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0855)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up is Mr. Kent. DamianCollinsPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0910)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Saini. CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0920)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Next up, for five minutes, is Monsieur Gourde.RajSainiKitchener CentreJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0925)[English]Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up is Mr. Baylis for five minutes.DamianCollinsFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0930)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis. I'd love to let you keep going, but I would just like to clarify something. We do have the Chair of the U.K. committee for two hours. We're going to try to get to some committee business at the very end, so don't worry, we can get you in.Thank you.We'll go up next with Mr. Kent for five minutes. FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0935)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent. Next up for five minutes is Monsieur Picard.PeterKentHon.ThornhillMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0940)[English]Thank you, Mr. Picard. Next up for three minutes is Mr. Angus.DamianCollinsCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0945)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Mr. Collins, we did ask you originally if there was some information that we would need to go in camera for. I have talked to both vice-chairs on the committee. We still want to hold it in public, if that's possible. Are you okay with that, or would you prefer to go in camera?DamianCollinsDamianCollins//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0945)[English]Okay. Perfect. We'll continue on, then.Mr. Baylis, you have seven minutes.DamianCollinsFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0955)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis.Next up is Mr. Gourde, for seven minutes.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1000)[English]Next up, for seven minutes, Mr. Angus. DamianCollinsCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1005)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up is Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1015)[English] Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Mr. Kent.DamianCollinsPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1020)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Mr. Saini, you have five minutes.PeterKentHon.ThornhillRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1020)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Last up, Mr. Angus has a letter that he would like to present.RajSainiKitchener CentreCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1025)[English] Okay. Thank you, Mr. Angus.I would like to ask you, Mr. Collins, to stay on the line to go in camera with us for a few minutes. You had mentioned that you wanted to say a few things in camera.I want to thank you publicly for appearing before us. It's deeply troubling. The foremost concern to me is our allowing foreign money to influence our elections, with viewers not knowingly being a part of that. That's deeply concerning. Enabling those bad actors to influence our democracy is troubling to all of us here at our committee.I want to suspend for about five minutes until we clear the room.Please stay on the line, Mr. Collins.[Proceedings continue in camera]CharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (0845)[English] Good morning, everyone. This is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting number 103. Today, pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), we are considering main estimates 2018-19, vote 1 under the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying, vote 1 under the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, vote 1 under the Office of the Senate Ethics Officer, votes 1 and 5 under the Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioner of Canada, referred to the committee on Monday, April 16.This morning we welcome, from the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Mr. Dion.Go ahead.Main estimates 2018-2019Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingOffice of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerOffice of the Senate Ethics OfficerOffices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of CanadaMarioDion//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0855)[English]Thank you, Mr. Dion.MarioDionMarioDion//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0855)[English]Thank you, Mr. Dion.First up is Mr. Baylis for seven minutes.MarioDionFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English]Thank you Mr. Baylis.Mr. Kent.MarioDionPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0910)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent. Next up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0920)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up is Monsieur Picard. You have seven minutes.MarioDionMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0925)[English]Thank you.We'll go to Mr. Gourde for five minutes.AnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—NepeanJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0930)[English] Thank you, Mr. Gourde.Next up is Mr. Erskine-Smith, for five minutes. MarioDionNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0935)[English]Thank you, Ms. Fortier.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0940)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.The last questions go to Mr. Angus, for three minutes. MarioDionCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0945)[English]Thank you, everyone.Thank you, again, Mr. Dion and Ms. Tremblay, for appearing. We appreciate your testimony today.We'll have a brief break, while Mr. Therrien takes his seat. Thank you.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]I call the meeting back to order. Thanks for attending, Mr. Therrien. I think we've seen each other several times over the past year, but welcome back. We'd like to hear your testimony for 10 minutes. Thank you. BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0955)[English]Thank you, Mr. Therrien.First off is Mr. Saini, for seven minutes.DanielTherrienRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1000)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Kent.DanielTherrienPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1010)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.BarbaraBucknellCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1020)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Erskine-Smith.DanielTherrienNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1020)[Translation]Ms. Fortier, you have the floor.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1025)[English] Thank you, Ms. Fortier.Next is Mr. Gourde for five minutes.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1030)[English] Thank you, Monsieur Gourde.Next up for five minutes is Ms. Vandenbeld.DanielTherrienAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1035)[English]Thank you, Ms. Vandenbeld.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent.AnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—NepeanPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English] Next up is Mr. Picard, or are you okay?Mr. Michel Picard: Yes. DanielTherrienBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]Okay.The last question goes to Mr. Angus for three minutes.BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1045)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Once again, thank you, Mr. Therrien, for appearing before our committee. I wish you a good day.The meeting is adjourned.DanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (0845)[English] We'll call to order this morning's meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting number 102. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we're doing a study on the breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook.This morning, as individuals, we have Colin J. Bennett, professor in the department of political science at the University of Victoria, and Thierry Giasson, professor in the department of political science at Université Laval. In our second hour, we have Marshall Erwin with the Mozilla Corporation.We'll start off this morning with Mr. Bennett.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesColinBennett//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0845)[English]Yes, we can hear you very well.ColinBennettColinBennett//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0855)[English]Thank you, Mr. Bennett.Next up is Mr. Giasson, for 10 minutes, please.ColinBennettThierryGiasson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English] Mr. Giasson, we are one minute over. Are you just about done?ThierryGiassonThierryGiasson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English]You have 30 more seconds, and then we'd better move to questions. Thank you.ThierryGiassonThierryGiasson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0910)[English]Thank you.First up, we have Mr. Erskine-Smith, for seven minutes.ThierryGiassonNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0910)[English]Sorry, Mr. Giasson. You can go back to French. Your English is very good, but our translation should be working now.ThierryGiassonThierryGiasson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0915)[English]Thank you.Next up is Mr. Kent, for seven minutes.ThierryGiassonPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0925)[English]You have 10 seconds.ColinBennettPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0925)[English]Mr. Masse is next up, for seven minutes.ThierryGiassonBrianMasseWindsor West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0930)[English]You have 30 seconds.ColinBennettBrianMasseWindsor West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0930)[English] Thank you, Mr. Masse.Next up is Mr. Saini, for seven minutes.ColinBennettRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0935)[English]You have two minutes.RajSainiKitchener CentreRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0940)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Last up, we have Mr. Bernier, for five minutes.ColinBennettMaximeBernierHon.Beauce//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0945)[English] Could we have a very brief answer, please?ThierryGiassonThierryGiasson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0945)[English]Thank you.The last question goes to Mr. Baylis.MaximeBernierHon.BeauceFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English] Thank you, Ms. Vandenbeld. We're definitely at time or a bit past, because we started a little later. I want to say thank you, especially to Mr. Bennett, who is surprisingly fresh being up testifying at 5:45 in the morning. As well, Mr. Giasson, thank you for appearing before the committee. We're going to suspend for about five minutes until we bring in the next witness. We're also going to grab some time for committee business at the end.(0950)(0955)ThierryGiassonBobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0955)[English]I'd like to welcome everybody back to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Now we have before us the Mozilla Corporation, which is being represented by Marshall Erwin, director of trust and security.Mr. Erwin, go ahead for 10 minutes.BobZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesMarshallErwin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1005)[English]Thank you for your testimony. I just want to say to committee members that, with the time limitations that we have, we have to be crisp. If we go to seven minutes times four, that's 28 minutes.First, we have Mr. Picard. MarshallErwinMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1015)[English] Thank you, Mr. Picard.Next up is Mr. Kent, for seven minutes.MarshallErwinPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1020)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up is Mr. Masse, for seven minutes.PeterKentHon.ThornhillBrianMasseWindsor West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1025)[English]You have 30 seconds.BrianMasseWindsor WestBrianMasseWindsor West//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1030)[English]Thank you, Mr. Masse. Mr. Erwin, I especially want to thank you for your testimony this morning, and I appreciate your trip out here.BrianMasseWindsor WestMarshallErwin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1030)[English]We'll suspend again for just a few minutes until our guests exit, and then we'll go in camera and talk committee business for about 15 minutes.[Proceedings continue in camera]MarshallErwin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (0845)[English] I call the meeting to order. This is the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, meeting number 101, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), the study of breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook. Today we have, from AggregateIQ, Zackary Massingham, Chief Executive Officer, and Jeff Silvester, Chief Operating Officer. Welcome, gentlemen.Mr. Massingham, go ahead.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0850)[English]Thank you, gentlemen. Mr. Erskine-Smith, for seven minutes.JeffSilvesterNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0855)[English]You have 10 seconds.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0900)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up, for seven minutes, we have Mr. Kent.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English]You have one minute, Mr. Kent.PeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English] Thank you, Mr. Kent.You're up for seven minutes, Mr. Angus.JeffSilvesterCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0915)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Baylis.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0920)[English]Mr. Baylis, you're past time.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0920)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis. Next up, for five minutes, Mr. Gourde.FrankBaylisPierrefonds—DollardJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0930)[English]Thank you, Monsieur Gourde.Next up, for five minutes, Mr. Saini.JeffSilvesterRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0935)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini. I know it seemed fast, but—RajSainiKitchener CentreRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0935)[English]It was. Thank you.Next up, for five minutes, Mr. Kent.RajSainiKitchener CentrePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0940)[English]Mr. Kent, you're at time.JeffSilvesterPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0940)[English]Thanks.Next up is Ms. Fortier for five minutes.PeterKentHon.ThornhillMonaFortierOttawa—Vanier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0945)[English]Thank you.Next up, for our three-minute round, is Mr. Angus.MonaFortierOttawa—VanierCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]I have a question. I think a lot of us are concerned about third party influence. We have certain laws about spending limits in campaigns, and you've been accused. This is a quote from Mr. Wylie: Aggregate IQ was just used as a proxy money laundering vehicle. Was AggregateIQ a proxy money laundering vehicle for the pro-Brexit campaign, as Mr. Wylie said?AggregateIQ Data Services LimitedCambridge AnalyticaElection campaignsMeta Platforms Inc.Money launderingPrivacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesUnited KingdomCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayJeffSilvester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]Mr. Massingham.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesJeffSilvesterZackaryMassingham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0950)[English]Thank you.For the next round we're going to start off with Ms. Vandenbeld for seven minutes. ZackaryMassinghamAnitaVandenbeldOttawa West—Nepean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0955)[English]Thank you, Ms. Vandenbeld. That's time. Next up, for seven minutes, we have Mr. Kent.JeffSilvesterPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1005)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1010)[English] Mr. Erskine-Smith, for seven minutes.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1020)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Gourde.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1020)[English]Thank you, Monsieur Gourde.Next up, for five minutes, is Mr. Baylis.JacquesGourdeLévis—LotbinièreFrankBaylisPierrefonds—Dollard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1030)[English]Thank you, Mr. Baylis and Mr. Silvester. The next questioner up is Mr. Kent for five minutes.JeffSilvesterPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1035)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for five minutes is Mr. Saini.PeterKentHon.ThornhillRajSainiKitchener Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1035)[English]Thank you, Mr. Saini.Last up for three minutes is Mr. Angus. RajSainiKitchener CentreCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]Thank you, Mr. Angus. We're at the end of our questions. I have one question for you left outstanding. Were you ever part of or involved in coordinating or organizing multiple clients' ads for the same or similar campaigns?AggregateIQ Data Services LimitedCambridge AnalyticaElection campaignsMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayJeffSilvester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English]I'll state it again, so it's clear.Were you ever part of or involved in coordinating or organizing multiple clients' ads for the same or similar campaigns? Yes or no?AggregateIQ Data Services LimitedCambridge AnalyticaElection campaignsMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesJeffSilvesterJeffSilvester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1040)[English] Thank you.I would say, as the chair of this committee, that I know we're all saying the same thing and we're all concerned. Something doesn't smell right here. I would challenge AIQ to do the right thing. That's the end of our testimony today. I'd like to thank everybody for your questions and thank you for appearing today.The meeting is adjourned.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesJeffSilvester//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Bob Zimmer (Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, CPC)): (0845)[English] Thank you, everybody, for coming today to meeting number 100 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vii), we are studying the breach of personal information involving Cambridge Analytica and Facebook.With us today are Kevin Chan, global director and head of public policy, Facebook Canada, and, via teleconference from California, Robert Sherman, deputy chief privacy officer.I would like to start with Mr. Chan. We, and I as chair, were disappointed that Mr. Zuckerberg declined our request. We don't take that lightly, but we appreciate your being here today.Mr. Chan.Cambridge AnalyticaMeta Platforms Inc.Privacy of personal recordsSocial networking sitesKevinChan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0855)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chan and Mr. Sherman.First up, for seven minutes, is Mr. Erskine-Smith.KevinChanNathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East York//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0905)[English]Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith.Next up, for seven minutes is Mr. Kent.NathanielErskine-SmithBeaches—East YorkPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0915)[English]Thank you, Mr. Kent.Next up for seven minutes is Mr. Angus.PeterKentHon.ThornhillCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0920)[English]We're at the time, Mr. Chan.Next up, we have Mr. Picard for seven minutes.KevinChanMichelPicardMontarville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0930)[English]Thank you, Mr. Picard.Next up for five minutes we have Mr. Gourde. MichelPicardMontarvilleJacquesGourdeLévis—Lotbinière//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/72035BobZimmerBob-ZimmerPrince George—Peace River—Northern RockiesConservative CaucusBritish Columbia//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/ZimmerBob_CPC.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (0935)[English]Mr. Chan, we're well over time, so make it a short response. KevinChanKevinChanINTERVENTIONParliament and SessionDiscussed TopicProcedural TermCommitteePerson SpeakingParticipation TypeSearchResults per pageOrder byTarget search languageSide by SideMaximum returned rowsPagePUBLICATION TYPE