//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (0910)[English]Thank you. Thanks again, Minister. I look forward to talking with your officials in the next hour. Madame Minister, in follow-up to my colleague's question, I'm a little stunned at the response. One of the named sources that have castigated Canada for failing to deliver its fair share of aid is the OECD. In the development co-operation review of 2018, the OECD severely criticized Canada for the drop in percentage of GNI of aid. Have you provided a response to their concerns, and if so, could you provide that to the committee?Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentGovernment assistanceMain estimates 2019-2020Organisation for Economic Co-operation and DevelopmentMichaelLevittYork CentreMaryamMonsefHon.Peterborough—Kawartha//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]I have some questions about that, which perhaps I could ask you. If you have responded to the OECD, I would appreciate you providing that to us. It's an issue of concern raised by every development organization in Canada. A concern that has been expressed to me is that the department, to its credit, did consult with Canadian civil society on how it plans to deliver the action items under the feminist international assistance policy, but there has been no response. They're wondering when they can expect the guidance. There was another independent review by the Canadian International Development Platform. They also had the same criticism: When can we expect that there will be some level of guidance? Where the concern really exists is less so in the organizations that are interested in delivering increased assistance to women, the ones that historically have delivered assistance in things such as sanitation, agriculture and water. When can Canadian civil society expect to finally receive that guidance?Canada's Feminist International Assistance PolicyDepartment of Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentInternational development and aidMain estimates 2019-2020WomenMaryamMonsefHon.Peterborough—KawarthaMaryamMonsefHon.Peterborough—Kawartha//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]Thanks. We look forward to getting that guidance. We're currently reviewing how Canada could support democratic governance, and we're hoping that before Parliament closes we might have some type of recommendations to you. I noted in your feminist international assistance policy that one of your action items is actually on that. There has been some disagreement about whether they relate to the SDGs. I notice in your report that your policy specifically addresses SDG 16. Can you advise me whether it's your understanding that SDG 16 also includes support for democratic governance; and if so, do you intend to move forward to provide more assistance in that area?Canada's Feminist International Assistance PolicyDepartment of Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentInternational development and aidMain estimates 2019-2020WomenMaryamMonsefHon.Peterborough—KawarthaMaryamMonsefHon.Peterborough—Kawartha//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]Madam Minister, I want to follow up on what my colleague asked about with respect to the SRHR. There is concern expressed that we don't know yet if the government's committed to going beyond the three-year pilot. Is there an intention going forward to give long-term commitment to the SRHR?Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentInternational development and aidMain estimates 2019-2020Reproductive healthWomenMaryamMonsefHon.Peterborough—KawarthaMaryamMonsefHon.Peterborough—Kawartha//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0940)[English]Mr. Chair, can we remind the minister that we'd appreciate that report, her report that was given to OECD.MichaelLevittYork CentreMaryamMonsefHon.Peterborough—Kawartha//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1000)[English]Thank you very much.Thank you, all, for appearing.I prefer to say “Your Excellency”. We're very grateful for how kind you were when we had our delegation to Ukraine quite some time ago. I didn't realize you were in the department, and it's great to see.I'm not going to ask you a question about it, but I do hope that there will be follow-up. We are doing this study, as my colleague Ms. Vandenbeld has said.I'm deeply troubled that, several budgets back, only 4% of the budget was on democratic development. I think you can anticipate that we'll be asking for more. It is one of the action items in the policy, and it obviously is not delivering properly if it stays at that small percentage.I would like to ask, first of all, two questions related to emergencies and humanitarian assistance.A number of issues have been raised with me by civil society organizations since I gained this portfolio. First, consistent with the feminist international assistance policy, have you established or do you intend to establish a dedicated pool of aid for gender in emergencies? In other words, a dedicated pool, not just giving money. Second, Canada has committed that 25% of its aid is supposed to go to local actors; in other words, organizations in the receiving countries for humanitarian assistance. Have you tracked the money going to local groups, and if so, can you release that?Canada's Feminist International Assistance PolicyDepartment of Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentInternational development and aidMain estimates 2019-2020WomenMichaelLevittYork CentreArunThangaraj//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1005)[English]My first question was: Have you established or will you establish a dedicated pool of aid for gender in emergencies as opposed to the one-off like Rohingya?Canada's Feminist International Assistance PolicyDepartment of Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentInternational development and aidMain estimates 2019-2020WomenArunThangarajArunThangaraj//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1005)[English]Is there a dedicated pool of resources for that?Canada's Feminist International Assistance PolicyDepartment of Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentInternational development and aidMain estimates 2019-2020WomenArunThangarajArunThangaraj//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1005)[English]You can see why I asked the question. This is a broader question that many are asking—many who have provided emergency assistance and many who have provided engineering assistance and water and sanitation. You've now got this feminist international assistance policy that supposedly overrides everything. The question is: Is there a set-aside, dedicated fund for that, or is all aid now only going to be about assisting women?I think people are seeking greater clarity. The answer you're giving is exactly why people are puzzled about how that matches up with the new policy.I won't push it any further but I think there still isn't certainty. There was an earlier question that I put to the minister and it's related to that. Questions have been raised about when we will actually see the more detailed guidelines on how we're delivering the action items under the new policy. That's one of the areas.My other question is about international assistance for climate change and sustainable development.The responsibilities in the cabinet appear to have gone from....The statute imposes the duty on the Minister of the Environment, with some responsibility now for the President of the Treasury Board. It jumps from minister to minister. Sometimes it is Minister Monsef and then it's Minister Duclos, who went to the UN meeting.So far as the feminist international assistance policy is the override, and part of that deals with climate change and environment, who has the budget and who is taking the lead on delivering our commitments on sustainable development?Climate change and global warmingDepartment of Foreign Affairs, Trade and DevelopmentMain estimates 2019-2020Sustainable developmentArunThangarajArunThangaraj//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1010)[English]The Minister of Environment and Climate Change signed the international—ArunThangarajMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1010)[English]Okay. If I have more time, I'd like to follow up.It remains confusing.MichaelLevittYork CentreMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1015)[English] Thank you very much, Your Excellency. It's always good to have you here.Mr. Dzhemilev, welcome back to Canada again.I have to say on behalf of my colleagues and everybody here that we admire your relentless advocacy on behalf of the Tatar people. It is an exhausting campaign, and you are a remarkable man. Thank you so much.I know that my colleagues, as well, would welcome.... I'm not sure that we have the list of the additional Russian people who we think should be included on the Magnitsky list. My party campaigned relentlessly during the previous government and in this government to expand that list against the Russian oligarchs, members of the military, businessmen and so forth. We would welcome receiving that list and joining the campaign to extend that list.My question to you, sir, is about the International Criminal Court. Clearly this is a case of genocide that has just not started with the seizure of Crimea, the most recent seizure, but has gone on and on for decades, if not hundreds of years.I'm curious to know if you've received any support in bringing cases toward the criminal court. My guess is that these perpetrators fly directly from Crimea back to Russia. I'm wondering if, in any circumstances, they fly into Europe or into Ukraine, and if there is any campaign to seize some of these people and begin proceedings against them.Civil and human rightsCrimeaEconomic sanctionsGenocideInternational Criminal CourtRussiaMichaelLevittYork CentreMustafaDzhemilev//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1020)[English]I'm wondering, sir, if you could give us some suggestions of other nations that we might increase our dialogue with, nations that may be major trading partners with Russia on energy, agriculture and so forth, so that we could put our efforts not just on ending any purchase that we might make, any trade we have, but also on other countries to get them on board.Civil and human rightsCrimeaEconomic sanctionsInternational relationsRussiaMustafaDzhemilevMustafaDzhemilev//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1025)[English]In closing, I'll say that it's our honour to support the motion that Borys is bringing forward in the House. We're pleased it's coming forward. It's our honour to be able to support this call to act against the genocide.Thank you very much, sir.Civil and human rightsCrimeaMustafaDzhemilevMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1645)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It's a pleasure to join you at the finance committee.I'm particularly interested in the testimony of Mr. Richter and Mr. Morrison, and I want to thank you both for your submissions.I have two questions, and I will let each of you respond to them. Of course, our party is deeply disappointed that the government rejected the bill we presented that would have created and enacted a binding right to housing, which would have delivered on our international commitments. Thank you for raising that again. Mr. Richter, two reports have come out recently. One is by Jan Reimer's organization on shelters in Alberta for women and children. When our housing critic and I met with her, she said very clearly that the crisis they're facing is not only the creation of the shelters and the fact they're having to turn away so many people, but also that the costing and the monies coming over are not sufficient to cover the additional counselling and assistance they need. It isn't just a case of providing housing; there are those additional needs. Mr. Morrison, thank you very much for your comments on indigenous housing. Frankly, I see no reason why UNDRIP cannot be specifically put into that bill. I have brought forward those amendments to two federal laws and they have been rejected. UNDRIP needs to be made legally binding, not just in the preamble—so thank you for raising that. Nothing is stopping the government from doing that, despite the fact that Romeo Saganash's bill has not gone through yet.I think they're all really excellent suggestions. Thank you for raising the issue of the need for urban indigenous housing. There has been a consistent attitude of federal governments, both Liberal and Conservative, to deny their obligation to indigenous people living in urban areas, which of course constitutionally.... You don't suddenly not become the responsibility of the federal government because you're living in an urban area.I would like to hear a response from both of you on what you might have to say about both the Alberta and the national reports that have come out on shelters for women and children, and a little more about the need for greater attention to urban indigenous people. I know that in my city, a huge percentage of the population is urban aboriginal, and there's a great dearth of housing.Aboriginal peoplesBudget 2019 (March 19, 2019)C-97, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 19, 2019 and other measuresGovernment billsSheltersSocial housingWayneEasterHon.MalpequeWayneEasterHon.Malpeque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1700)[English]Thank you very much. Thank you, all of you, for coming and appearing.Mr. Gerrard, you had said—and correct me if I'm wrong—that 90% of the canola has been sold and priced. Does that mean that only 10% is left in the bins and not sold?Canola growingChinaExportsStatisticsMarkEykingHon.Sydney—VictoriaWilliamGerrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1700)[English]Only personally, so my question to you would be, do we have a handle on what percentage of the canola remains in the farm bins, where it's plummeting in value, where it has either not been sold or not been priced?Canola growingChinaExportsWilliamGerrardWilliamGerrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1700)[English]I think he has an estimate. Go ahead.Canola growingChinaExportsWilliamGerrardBradHanmer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]Okay. Thanks.It would be my understanding, then, that a lot of farmers' ability to pay for the seed will be impacted, even if they decide to plant canola this year. There will be a hit to a lot of our growers, not only this year but next year. Are any of the growers running into problems being able to finance even buying the seed right now for canola or any other product?Canola growingChinaExportsBradHanmerLeroyNewman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]I just met with some of the Alberta growers who suggested to me that there have been some sales of canola oil to China. Do we have any kinds of concerns or are there threats that they will stop the sale of the canola oil as well, or do you think that if revenue could be garnered, including from the federal government, there's potential to expand the value-added? Is that going to help some of the growers, at least in the interim term?Canola growingChinaExportsLeroyNewmanWilliamGerrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]I noticed that France imports a fairly considerable amount, though it's nothing compared with China, Japan or Mexico. But Germany is only the second European country.... Is that because it's a GMO crop? Is that why Europeans are not buying the canola?Canola growingChinaExportsBradHanmerBradHanmer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]How about the rest of Europe?Canola growingChinaExportsBradHanmerBradHanmer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]Okay, I know it's been—Canola growingChinaExportsBradHanmerBradHanmer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]They do buy the canola oil. Canola growingChinaExportsBradHanmerBradHanmer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]Okay. I understand a lot of it is for machinery, though, not necessarily for human use.Canola growingChinaExportsBradHanmerBradHanmer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]So if we completely lost—BradHanmerMarkEykingHon.Sydney—Victoria//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]Okay, somebody else can ask the question.MarkEykingHon.Sydney—VictoriaMarkEykingHon.Sydney—Victoria//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1115)[English]Vacation in constituency week?ScottSimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameScottSimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English] I have some.LarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1125)[English]Thank you very much.It's my first time at this committee. I always wondered what PROC gets up to. I have to say, I'm shaking my head at this one. I'm wondering if we can have some of the members of Samara actually follow a member of Parliament one day, and see that we don't have a second in the day to do something additional. A parallel chamber, I'm like....I have lots of questions about this. You make a good point with omnibus bills, but time after time, the opposition asks for those to be separated, to go to the appropriate places, which are the relevant standing committees, and we don't get that. That would be my preference, rather than going to some nefarious room that isn't taken as seriously.I think there are many things that could be done to make this place more democratic, and to not only give more opportunities to the elected members, but to the public, scientists and experts to come in and testify, so that we can hear their opinions.The big question I would raise is that I think a lot of people would think this sounds exciting, because we're actually finally going to have debates. We don't really have debates in this place. One person speaks, and then another person speaks and another person may get to speak. I think that if there were a mechanism, not necessarily another House, but if there were time set aside each year, where we were generally going to have debates, then there could be agreement on the topics of the day.Say, for example, we have a genuine debate about how we're going to resolve pharmacare. It's not just people giving speeches; you actually have an interesting debate, and maybe panels of experts.I looked at these other two parallel chambers and in some cases, it seems like those are exactly the things we do in the House. I'm wondering why we need a parallel chamber. My biggest bone of contention is with majority governments. What guarantee is there in this second chamber that it's not all going to be taken up by majority government members? Who's going to decide who gets more time to debate? Big issues like that need to be discussed.What's the intent of this? Is it to give opportunity for those who aren't getting a fair chance to speak the chance to speak? We have the frustration right now where many can't even table their private member's bill because of procedural actions by the government of the day.I'm wondering if you've discussed those kinds of issues with these other two jurisdictions about whether they have dealt with some of these issues, and where they think this second chamber helps any of those issues.Parallel debating ChamberParliament of AustraliaParliament of WestminsterLarryBagnellHon.YukonCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]What happens in the second chamber?Parallel debating ChamberParliament of AustraliaCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]Other than having to find another chamber, which is already a challenge around here with Centre Block closed—CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]Our caucus can't even meet over there anymore because there's no room for it, so I don't know how we're going to have another chamber. However, in addition to another chamber, we're going to need clerks and interpreters. There's increasing pressure that we would have indigenous interpreters.CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]I think, then, that in any consideration of this, we're going to have to think about the whole ball of wax of what it would cost to deliver this.Parallel debating ChamberCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]I think the family-friendly aspect is going to be a big issue. I think one of those meets at 4:30 in the afternoon. I don't think there will be a lot of favour for that.Parallel debating ChamberSittings of the House of CommonsCharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]Well, we don't want any candles in here. We already lost one House of Commons.I think the key to it, as well—if you would even consider it—would be that we're going to have to completely change who gets to set the agenda and who gets to choose what is being debated that day. Right now in our committees, the majority government members decide all of that. If we really want to provide an additional opportunity for other members to participate, those kinds of things are really going to have to be democratized, I would suspect. I think there have been a lot of proposals to try to better democratize the House proceedings as they are, and my suggestion would be to maybe work on that first before we start inventing another chamber.Parallel debating ChamberProcedureCharlesRobertLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English] I think that the House leaders and the whips are important people to include in this discussion about what the possibilities and the implications are. I know they're challenged enough as it is making sure people show up to fill spots in committee, show up to a vote and be in the chamber to support people when they're speaking and so forth. It would probably be good to hear from them about what complications there might be for them or how we could take that into consideration. I am deeply concerned about any proposal about spending more when we already have commitments, for example, to be coming up with the dollars to provide interpretation for indigenous and we're not doing that. For example, the committee I just came from agreed for the first time to translate their report into four languages. I think that these kinds of things are going to increase in cost. We need to be thinking about the commitments we've already made in the House of Commons and through committees before we start adding on and then ratcheting back. Those kinds of factors are really important to look at. When we're looking at interpretation, we're now looking at more complications on things like that. I think costing clearly will be a big one that probably various leaders will ask for—certainly the Speaker's office and so forth.Who is going to decide the agenda and what debates will occur? Is it going to be different from the way it is right now, which is essentially the majority of members at every committee? Different committees operate more convivially than others. Is this chamber going to be different, particularly if David is saying that it should give more opportunity to the backbenchers? There's a heck of a lot more backbenchers in the majority Liberal government right now than there was in the Conservative majority government. Those kinds of things.... You'll have more enthusiasm in the members of Parliament if they think that is generally going to give them an opportunity to be debating. This idea is coming, as I understand, from Samara. They did that report on the frustrations former members of Parliament had with democracy and so forth. Part of it, too, is that the public wants to hear more of what the various parties and members of Parliament think. I haven't really heard anybody talk about the role of the great unwashed public in this. Is that room going to have to allow for substantial audiences? That is another issue because they can come and sit in on our debates in the House. They'll probably want to sit in on some of these debates, particularly if they recommend them. Parallel debating ChamberLarryBagnellHon.YukonLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]I'd have to talk to my party about that.David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]Well....David de BurghGrahamLaurentides—LabelleDavid de BurghGrahamLaurentides—Labelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]They're not necessarily appropriate witnesses.ScottSimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]They would become the—CharlesRobertCharlesRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]Here's my perspective, having been here for 11 years.Rather than going back in deep dark history when we burned the place down, why would we not first of all try to make this place—what we have—more democratic? Basically we have a system where the government, with procedure rules, can simply control the agenda. It varies from committee to committee, but they have the majority and they can decide what they're going to talk about and for how long, and who the witnesses are. I think that's where a lot of the frustration is. When you're the third party or you don't have party status, you have very little chance to speak in the House. I don't think we're dealing with the democratic actions in the House. I'm not convinced that setting up yet another chamber is going to resolve the frustrations of a lot of members, and that includes backbenchers in majority governments.I have a couple of questions. First, what makes you think that party influence and discipline are going to be removed from the second chamber? Are members going to be free all of sudden to express their opinion if it's against the government's position, or even the opposition party's position? How is it going to be set up? Is it going to be first-come, first-served? We have 180-plus backbench Liberals who are probably going to be keen to have a chance to finally stand up and debate something keen to their constituency. How would that be balanced out? Who's really going to decide what the topics are and who gets to speak?Also, why couldn't petition debates be made part of the House agenda, like maybe once a month? I think that would be fascinating. Instead, they just table them and say that the responses have been issued. Other than sending out the responses to the people who signed the petition, nobody else ever knows what the government response was. There are a whole lot of things that could be done with the current regime without increasing the amount of work. Is there then going to be pressure on the opposition members and the backbenchers—“Well, why aren't you proposing something in the other chamber”—and adding that to their agenda?Also, the majority government has all kinds of members that they can send around. The smaller parties are pressured as it is. They have to be in the House. They have to be in committee. Some of them may be travelling with committee. It's a different kind of proposition. If you have a whole lot of members, it's, “Oh yes, we can probably do something in the additional chamber.” I think that needs to be thought through as well. I would love to also see some good ideas coming forward on how can we make the current chamber more democratic and interesting to the public.Parallel debating ChamberLarryBagnellHon.YukonPaulThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]How are you going to change that?Parallel debating ChamberPaulThomasPaulThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English] I don't disagree with what your concern is, and I think that's a challenge, but I question how you are going to, all of a sudden, transform somebody into not caring what their cabinet minister, their whip, the House leader or the caucus has decided is their position. It's a nice idea, but that's the challenge. I would be interested to know if any of that changed in Australia and England.Parallel debating ChamberPaulThomasPaulThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English]That would be an issue that would be worthwhile, talking to the elected members in those two countries: whether they genuinely became freed up from party discipline. That's what you want to have happen, so I think it would be really useful to find out. Did that actually happen in those parallel chambers?We have media panels every day, and people are still saying the party line. All of a sudden because it's in a different room, I don't know if it'll change, if it is still broadcast. It's a challenge, but it would be interesting to find out in those two countries if in fact there was a transformation and people felt.... If it were more of a discussion as opposed to a debate—you're looking at an issue and everybody is coming up with innovative ideas—how are we going to resolve that? That's a possibility, but if you're debating a bill that has been in the House and those lines have already been drawn, it's interesting.Parallel debating ChamberParliament of WestminsterMichaelMordenPaulThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English]I think on studies in committee that happens sometimes, but not so much on a bill.PaulThomasLarryBagnellHon.Yukon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]Then you could do that in the second chamber, presumably.ScottReidLanark—Frontenac—KingstonScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Kingston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]By consensus is a great concept.ScottReidLanark—Frontenac—KingstonScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Kingston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (0910)[English]Thank you very much.Thank you for appearing before us.Loyce, thank you for coming all the way from Zimbabwe. I visited your beautiful country in 1986, when the country was in I'd say a much more positive and different situation. Thank heavens we've been able to keep you healthy.You have reported that Canada is the seventh and I understand that's in the G7. What's the differential between the top donors in the G7 and what Canada's giving?AIDS and HIVGovernment assistanceInternational development and aidMalariaTuberculosis in humansMichaelLevittYork CentreFrançoiseVanni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0910)[English]It's encouraging that Canada is giving a 24% increase, but of course we're still only at one-third of what we should be donating globally. We'll just keep the pressure up, because Canada can afford to give more, not just to the Global Fund, but obviously the Global Fund is in need.I'm curious to follow up a bit more and Loyce may be able to speak to this. You spoke a bit to the significant blockages and barriers to being able to reach everyone. Obviously money would be one. I wonder if you can speak to whether some of the problems are simply the denial of the problem.When I travelled at the same time to Malawi, the Government of Malawi was denying that they even had HIV. I'm wondering if there's still some vestige of that, of the government not admitting to the scale of the problem, particularly in diseases like HIV. Is it also a problem that we're simply not addressing poverty or education?I'd love to hear from Loyce.AIDS and HIVInternational development and aidMalariaTuberculosis in humansZimbabweFrançoiseVanniLoyceMaturu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]My understanding is that the Global Fund not only helps to provide medicines to people who have contracted these diseases, but do you also work in the area of trying to prevent the spread, for example, of TB or prevent people contracting malaria? Is there more that could be done about that? Again I go to the issue that, even in our country, they say that one of the main causes of illness is simply poverty. I would like to hear more about that, about the bigger analysis of why it is that we haven't been able to address these problems yet. AIDS and HIVInternational development and aidMalariaPreventive medicineTuberculosis in humansLoyceMaturuFrançoiseVanni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0920)[English] Thank you.FrançoiseVanniMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (0920)[English]I have to say that personally I find you the most important witnesses we've had here, and I wish we could have you all day. Some committees have expanded into six hours as of last night, but I don't think this one will, unfortunately. Whatever entity might be set up, I think it would be very valuable to continue dialogue with both of you and your organizations.There are many questions. The first is—and we talked at the beginning about this—whether the answer to Canada's providing more assistance in building effective democracy and human rights and justice and anti-corruption is to create yet another organization or whether we should be flowing the money through the number of entities we have already in Canada. That's the first challenge we have to face.If the decision were that we recommend yet another organization, where did we go wrong with the last organization we had?The third question is: If we create an organization, should it be an organization that directly helps to deliver this knowledge and support, or would it become a funding entity like Mr. Lamarre's organization? We've heard from both. I welcome your advice on this. Frankly, I think it would be good to follow up, if you're willing to send to us your best advice, because obviously Mr. Lamarre's organization simply funds.Mr. Lamarre, I'm very interested in the process you follow. I used to work for the Commission for Environmental Cooperation. We were established by Canada, the United States and Mexico. We had a program with a slush fund, and funds were given out to local organizations. I know that Canada already does some of this work—building judiciary and so forth. Some of the groups we've talked to actually have bases in some of the receiving countries, and that helps them to identify appropriate organizations. You, however, seem to have a unique process whereby the local organizations themselves apply to you for funding. Could you speak to me about why you've chosen to go in that direction?Communities and collectivitiesDemocracyFinancingInternational development and aidNon-governmental organizationsMichaelLevittYork CentreRobertGreenhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0925)[English] I'll go back to you and you can tell me how we can impose that firewall, but maybe we can hear from Mr. Lamarre.RobertGreenhillChristianLamarre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0925)[English]I have so many more questions, but my time is up.ChristianLamarreMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1010)[English]Thank you to all three of you.I look forward to invitations to your events. I've been here for 11 years, and it's the first time I've heard of the group.I think it was you, Mr. LaRose-Edwards, who raised this issue. I'm wondering if you think this committee—if we decide that there needs to be an new entity—should potentially be recommending two things.You're both obviously already doing good work. We've heard from a number of Canadian organizations that are already doing incredible work. We've also heard some from the UN and some from the United States and Europe. Do you think, as the first step in deciding whether to form another group and what exactly its mandate could be, there would be value in doing some kind of gap analysis, analyzing what entities are already out there and the kind of work they're doing related to either the creation of democracy or better delivery of democracy, including all the entities we talked about before, addressing corruption, ensuring justice and so forth? Could you then give some clarification on what is the core need for this group?Along with that, could you give some kind of recommendations and clarity on whether there's intent to replace everything that's out there, or recognition of the continuing need to support the good work that is being done by the other groups, having got a better understanding of the difference in their roles? I'm curious to get your feedback on that.AccountabilityDemocracyInternational development and aidNon-governmental organizationsMichaelLevittYork CentrePaulLaRose-Edwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1015)[English] That's helpful.PaulLaRose-EdwardsJean-PaulRuszkowski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1015)[English]Do I have more time?MaureenBoydMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1015)[English]Neither of you has really responded to my question.I think the starting point is that the proposal for a new group isn't in any way to say that we don't think the existing organizations are doing anything. What's necessary as a first step is to clearly define where we think the value is in the existing institutions that Canada decides to continue funding and then identify what the gaps are. These are likely what that group would do.One value I would love to have people speaking to—and we won't have a chance for more witnesses—is that when an entity is established independently as an NGO or incorporated as a society, they can accept funds from the public or from private corporations, but if you were created as a government entity, you cannot necessarily.I think, then, there are many issues we need to look at, but I really appreciate your input.DemocracyInternational development and aidMichaelLevittYork CentreMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (0900)[English] Yes. Thank you very much. Of course, I wasn't part of the committee when you reviewed this.I certainly also want to thank Mr. Farrant. It's very brave of you to come forward, and it must be reassuring to have something actually happening to your need.I have to share that for many years my partner was a criminal defence lawyer. I know what those files look like. It's about time that this measure were taken, so thank you to Michael Cooper, and thank you for recognizing my colleague. He's very reassured that when he participates and brings forward ideas, something actually happens. He's very grateful to you, Mr. Cooper.My first question would be for Mr. Farrant—in fact two questions that you could answer together. One, it will not be fair. What will happen with this amendment is that we're simply amending the code so that, in fact, those who may be suffering from serving as jurors can seek medical treatment or counselling. The cost of that is, by this report, generally to be borne by the provinces and territories. My first question to you would be this. Do you believe that the burden still falls on you to try to now get the provinces and territories to put up the dollars, or are you confident that the federal government is delivering on the recommendation that they should approach the provinces and territories?My second question for you, Mr. Farrant, is, do you think there will also be a need now for the federal Department of Justice to educate the medical and counselling professionals? You mentioned in your testimony the difficulties you faced when you tried to seek assistance, as they were nervous because they didn't think that would be allowed.I'm just wondering if you'd like to respond to those two questions. Actually, I'd also welcome responses by Mr. Cooper to those questions.C-417, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (disclosure of information by jurors)Federal-provincial-territorial relationsHealth care systemInformation disseminationJury and jurorsMental healthPrivate Members' BillsAnthonyHousefatherMount RoyalMarkFarrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0925)[English]Mr. Chair, I had understood that a representative from the Department of Justice was testifying.AnthonyHousefatherMount RoyalAnthonyHousefatherMount Royal//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0925)[English]So he's not to testify.AnthonyHousefatherMount RoyalAnthonyHousefatherMount Royal//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0925)[English]Thanks. I'll just write a letter about it.AnthonyHousefatherMount RoyalAnthonyHousefatherMount Royal//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1135)[English]Thank you. I have a few minutes here.Thank you very much. I welcome your visit here, and I look forward to your talk tomorrow. I have just met with civil society coalitions on exactly what you're saying the priority for Canada could be, and they will be delighted with the framework you're presenting. They'll be asking for $650 million from Canada to support that.A while back, the British High Commission brought in a speaker, a military general who'd been tagged specifically to deal with security matters related to climate. My question to you, sir, is this: Are you beginning to factor climate change impacts into the growing needs for humanitarian assistance?Climate change and global warmingHumanitarian assistance and workersUnited NationsMarkLowcockMarkLowcock//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (0915)[English]Thank you very much, both of you, for your work. What your countries are delivering is very profound.Following up on what my colleague just mentioned, Mr. Gershman, I noted that you said your endowment is established by statute, and that creates a firewall by law. I'm wondering, Mr. Smith, if you could speak to that.I'm interested in the issue of political interference or accountability. It would be a two-way street. Some people may object, saying that if all of these initiatives are being delivered by somebody at arm's length, then the government doesn't have to say it's accountable for how those monies are being spent. On the other hand, if you do have a firewall, then it does give you the independence from the government of the day. I'm wondering if both of you could speak to that.AccountabilityDemocracyInternational development and aidNon-governmental organizationsPolitical influenceMichaelLevittYork CentreAnthonySmith//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0920)[English]Thank you very much. I'm interested that your two organizations actually deliver your services and your support in different ways. Mr. Smith outlined that they actually have 30 in-country offices, whereas the NED does not have any in-country offices. My question is for both of you. Who decides what the priorities are, and how do you move toward what Mr. Gershman mentioned, which I think is really important, that it be a bottom-up initiative? If you're going to build democracy, in my view, it will last longer if it's bottom-up. I'm interested in the two approaches. How do you decide what the priorities are in the receiving country if you don't have in-country offices?What is your experience, Mr. Smith, of having in-country offices in order to develop the priorities for your organization?DemocracyForeign countriesInternational development and aidNon-governmental organizationsOffice spaceCarlGershmanCarlGershman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0925)[English]Are you not going to let Mr. Gershman answer? No?MichaelLevittYork CentreMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0940)[English]Chair, may I ask a question?MichaelLevittYork CentreMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0940)[English]I'm wondering if Mr. Gershman can send us the citation to the report on top-down and bottom-up approaches. It sounds very interesting. MichaelLevittYork CentreCarlGershman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1020)[English]Thank you very much.Of course we'd like to have everybody here all day long. The most important discussion that should be going on is about building democracy.By the way, Ms. O'Neill, of course you're fabulous, because you're from Edmonton, as am I.Your testimony is raising lots of interesting questions in my head, and I'd be interested to hear both of you respond to this—particularly Mr. Broadbent. Mr. Gershman reminded us that the National Endowment for Democracy was not founded by government. It was founded through NGOs, and they set the terms and objectives for the organization. The federal government simply funds it.That raises a question in my mind. Is it really going to be an independent organization if the government creates it? What do you think is the best direction to go in for establishing this to make sure that it is arm's-length from government?DemocracyInternational development and aidNational Endowment for DemocracyNon-governmental organizationsPolitical influenceMichaelLevittYork CentreEdBroadbentHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1025)[English]Do you believe the appointments to this entity should be by government...?DemocracyInternational development and aidNon-governmental organizationsPolitical appointmentsEdBroadbentHon.EdBroadbentHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1025)[English]Ms. O'Neill, I wonder if you could speak to this, and then you, Mr. Broadbent.There's one thing that puzzles me. I think there is some interest in the current government in re-establishing such an organization, yet the Global Affairs budget right now doesn't see judicial development, democratic development, human rights, women's rights and so forth as working together. They're all separate lines in the Global Affairs budget and, in fact, democratic participation in civil society is given next to nothing.Does the creation of this entity also mean that we need a rethink within Global Affairs and within the government, and how would they work together? That's a small little question.DemocracyInternational development and aidNon-governmental organizationsEdBroadbentHon.JacquelineO'Neill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1600)[English]Thank you very much.You can continue on that line, because my question will be along the same one. Over two decades ago, the World Bank decided to take a different approach to Indonesia, where the central government was very corrupt. They decided to start trying to shift aid to the regional governments, to the provinces or states.Dr. Menkhaus, you have called for innovative aid. Are any of the donors starting to go in that direction of giving direct assistance to the member states where they think they could improve their ability to govern more democratically and effectively, have them begin to work together, and in turn put pressure on the central government?International development and aidSomaliaMichaelLevittYork CentreKenMenkhaus//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1600)[English]I'd like to put a question to both of you on the partially lifted arms embargo. Obviously there was pressure by Somalia to lift that embargo. How much of the arms that go into the countries actually get into the hands of al Shabaab and other members? Is that an issue? Is it kind of a pointless exercise?Al-ShabaabEmbargoesSomaliaTerrorism and terroristsWeaponsKenMenkhausKenMenkhaus//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English] I'm wondering if you're seeing any kind of an age divide in Somalia. Is there any greater hope with the younger generation coming forward and pushing more for engagement in civil society, or a more democratic regime, or more rule of law, or is it the other way around?SomaliaYoung peopleJayBahadurJayBahadur//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]You've called for innovative aid. Do you know of any brilliant, innovative ideas for how to address that?International development and aidSomaliaKenMenkhausKenMenkhaus//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]Thank you.MichaelLevittYork CentreMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1330)[English]Thank you.Welcome.As I mentioned to you, Minister Hassan, you have very impressive credentials, as my colleague from the Conservative Party pointed out.Could you elaborate a bit more on what my colleague just raised about educating women and girls? Recently in the Canadian media, we had a story of a success in one African country where the struggle to educate and give opportunities to women and girls was simply that they each had to spend five hours a day carting water. Canadian aid then provided the drilling for safe wells run by solar.Could you speak to the main barriers to women becoming educated and girls getting access to the schools? Is it religious? Is it cultural? Is it basic survival? What is your strategy on moving forward on that agenda?Education and trainingGirlsSomaliaWomenMichaelLevittYork CentreGamalHassanHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1335)[English]I have a simple question related to that. You know that Canada has adopted this feminist international assistance policy. Is your country willing, in your request for assistance, to make that a priority on how you will spend your assistance dollars?International development and aidSexual discriminationSomaliaGamalHassanHon.GamalHassanHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1335)[English]You've raised the issue about the refugees, a good number of whom are essentially stranded in Yemen, which is not a very safe place to be right now.I wonder if you could speak to whether there is a repatriation strategy. Is it safe for them to come back to Somalia? Is Somalia investing any kind of effort in trying to bring those Somalis back to Somalia?RepatriationSomaliaGamalHassanHon.GamalHassanHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1335)[English] I have a few more minutes. I'd like to ask you about your strategy for exploiting oil and gas.The experience around the world of exploiting oil and gas has been mixed. With that exploitation come potential conflicts with the communities where that development is occurring, and potential environmental impacts. I am wondering if you have been developing an overriding strategy for how you might explore the exploitation of that resource while trying to do it in a better way than has been attempted in many other nations.Oil and gasSomaliaGamalHassanHon.GamalHassanHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1625)[English]Mr. Kapenda, I look at your list of recommendations, and they're definitely a list of all the things that need to be done to stabilize any nation, including Congo. The problem is, how is any of that possible until you have a stable government?I'm looking at the recommendation for a transitional government. I know a number of nations go through that. Sometimes after the election, the vice-president takes over. There's a transitional government for a while. My colleagues have said that there doesn't appear to be any one candidate in the coming election, except for the one people don't want, because he's the one creating all the terror—at least the government-driven terror. How would you recommend that Canada would be involved in supporting a transitional government? Have you put that recommendation to the United Nations?I note that there's already a huge investment by the UN in peacekeepers in the stabilization mission, yet they haven't been able to have any effect. My understanding would be that the support for a stable, peaceful nation is going to have to come from the people of Congo. Surely it's going to have to take somebody in the Congo to bring everybody together. I can't imagine some external force coming in—Canada, the United States, any other nation—and imposing some kind of transitional government and that going over well. I would welcome what you mean by a transitional government. In addition, I'll just throw out a couple of questions to you. Absolutely, there needs to be references to the International Criminal Court. First of all, you have to get a hold of those people, get them out of the country and bring them to the court. Certainly we want to have retraining for the child soldiers. However, with a lot of the obviously really great platform that you have for reform for the country, you need to have the stabilization first.I guess what I would ask is what you're asking of Canada that Canada could do alone, or are you asking us to make requests of others to do something, for example, towards the transitional government?Democratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanSomaliaMichaelLevittYork CentreMarcKapenda//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]I would welcome it from both of you.MarcKapendaMarcKapenda//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]Thank you.Thank you to both of you. It's really important testimony. I think we have to be pragmatic here. The election is less than a month away. Canada is not about to initiate some kind of a training program for the election. Are you aware if there is already an international election-monitoring mission on the ground there that will be helping to monitor the election? If so, are you in touch with that monitoring mission?Democratic Republic of the CongoElectoral observation missionsRepublic of South SudanSomaliaMichaelLevittYork CentreYvetteYende-Ashiri//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]There are international organizations that go to various countries. I'm not sure whether anyone has stepped in, given the violence there. I would encourage you to find out who is on the ground and is doing that, and then try to encourage them to do specific training for the women to encourage them to vote, to support them when they vote and so forth. You mentioned Beni. I'm sorry. It was you, Julienne.Democratic Republic of the CongoElectoral observation missionsRepublic of South SudanSomaliaYvetteYende-AshiriJulienneLusenge//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English] Just a second, let me ask my question.My understanding is that Beni is one of the places where there is the Ebola crisis. Given the violence that is still going on there, are you seeing problems? Is there any specific assistance that Canada or Canada talking to its allies can provide to make sure that somebody intervenes to protect the health workers there to get the Ebola under control and not spreading? Democratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanSomaliaJulienneLusengeJulienneLusenge//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1600)[English]Thank you to both of you for your work. Having worked overseas myself, I think we often give thanks to our troops, as we should, but I don't think there's enough credit given to aid workers, particularly from civil society, so thank you.It's interesting, Mr. Queyranne, that you raised the issue of security, as has Ms. Juac. Just recently there was a feature article in The Globe and Mail raising exactly that, with aid agencies, civil society, saying that they need somebody to step up because they can't deliver assistance.I'm wondering if both of you could talk to.... Is there a difference between needing better security for providing what we call the straight aids—in other words, sending in bundles of tents or food and so forth—as opposed to international assistance that tries to get the dollars and the skills to local civil organizations? In this time of strife, does it make more sense for us to be giving more assistance?Mr. Queyranne, you might have mentioned that you are encouraging more direct assistance between civil organizations in Canada and civil organizations on the ground. Could you elaborate on that a bit? Are you asking for two things? Are you asking Canada to step up and provide peacemakers, in order to deliver the goods, and also asking us to rethink how we are providing the aid?Democratic Republic of the CongoHumanitarian assistance and workersRepublic of South SudanSomaliaMichaelLevittYork CentreGregoryQueyranne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English] Would you like to respond to that at all?Ms. Juac, you mentioned the plight of women in the turmoil and so forth. Canada, as you're aware, now has a feminist international assistance policy. Is there value in giving direct assistance to women in the rural communities or to women in the larger urban areas to try to be a stronger voice for decision-making?It's my understanding that civil society in South Sudan wants to have that peace, but the government, as you mentioned, is not directing resources towards what civil society is asking for.Where do you see Canadian aid best being placed? Is it to help the communities push for better governance? What direction do you suggest Canadian aid should go?Democratic Republic of the CongoHumanitarian assistance and workersRepublic of South SudanSomaliaGregoryQueyranneA.A.A.Juac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]Clearly, deliver the aid directly, as much as possible, to the local organizations but definitely not through the government.Democratic Republic of the CongoHumanitarian assistance and workersRepublic of South SudanSomaliaA.A.A.JuacA.A.A.Juac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]Okay, we're hearing that clearly.A.A.A.JuacMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]Am I done?MichaelLevittYork CentreMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1715)[English]I want to thank both of you. Obviously, you have many years of solid experience. I'm hoping you are going to give us your written briefs, because it was hard to follow. There was so much depth there. I really want to thank you.Ms. Stigant, I noted that you mentioned the Red Sea forum. Our own Library of Parliament, which does research for the committees, pointed out that there are over a million Somalian refugees in the Horn of Africa and Yemen. Given what's going on in Yemen right now, can you speak to what impact that has on also resolving issues in Somalia?Democratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanRepublic of YemenSomaliaMichaelLevittYork CentreSusanStigant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1715)[English]Yes, I note that both the OECD and Fund for Peace put Yemen ahead of several of these other African countries as to the fragility of states, to add to your additional work that you do.Ms. Gagnon, I really appreciate all that you've provided. Overriding all the issues that you've raised, are you suggesting that Canada could contribute more to UN initiatives, or are you also, or instead, suggesting that Canadian aid could perhaps target? For example, someone I know who just retired as a prosecutor in British Columbia is being sent by the UN to Myanmar to work for the prosecutors to try to train them on how you deal with human rights violations in the courts.Democratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanSomaliaSusanStigantGeorgetteGagnon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1715)[English]I would welcome what exactly it is that you're suggesting Canada might do in the role we play in perhaps focusing more or specific directed aid in those particular countries.Democratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanSomaliaGeorgetteGagnonGeorgetteGagnon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]Do you actually see hope in aid working with the judicial process? Are they free enough from the government in those countries that it actually could have an impact?Democratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanSomaliaGeorgetteGagnonGeorgetteGagnon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]I think there might have been earlier witnesses talking about freedom of journalism. Is there also a need for getting the message out more, where good actions are taken, and letting the populace know that in fact people are intervening and there's—Democratic Republic of the CongoFreedom of the pressRepublic of South SudanSomaliaGeorgetteGagnonGeorgetteGagnon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]Thank you very much.MichaelLevittYork CentreMichaelLevittYork Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1600)[English]Thank you.My first questions will be about the DRC. My understanding is, you can correct me if I'm wrong, that there is some level of assistance going there for women's health, particularly maternal care and so forth.What degree of assistance is Canada giving to address AIDS?AIDS and HIVDemocratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanSomaliaRobertNaultHon.KenoraNicolasSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1600)[English] As I understand, we're assisting women's clinics on diagnosis, but are we providing medicines?Democratic Republic of the CongoPharmaceuticalsRepublic of South SudanSomaliaNicolasSimardNicolasSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1600)[English]I've been trying to read and catch up as much as I can, and I'm concerned by what I read about Canadian arms dealers selling indirectly to South Sudan. I know my colleague on this committee put forward an amendment that was rejected to stop the indirect sales; that is, in other words, if you sell to the U.S. and then they in turn sell it on to a banned nation. What is happening with arms sales from Canada to South Sudan now? Is that still going on, even indirectly?Arms controlDemocratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanSomaliaNicolasSimardMarc-AndréFredette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]I said “indirect sales”.Arms controlDemocratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanSomaliaMarc-AndréFredetteMarc-AndréFredette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]Do we know if Canadian arms are still going into South Sudan, then?Arms controlDemocratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanSomaliaMarc-AndréFredetteMarc-AndréFredette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]Apparently they were, and we weren't controlling them.What can you tell me about what's going on with conflict minerals in the DRC?Conflict mineralsDemocratic Republic of the CongoRepublic of South SudanSomaliaMarc-AndréFredetteNicolasSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]I'm very interested in all the aid that Canada is providing to Somalia. Correct me if I'm wrong. In 2016 it was $31 million, and then what I see in my materials is $18 million. I'm just wondering if there's a reason for the reduction, what the time period is over which that's being allotted, and what the impact the new feminist international assistance policy is having on changing the direction of assistance to Somalia.Democratic Republic of the CongoInternational development and aidRepublic of South SudanSomaliaNicolasSimardMarc-AndréFredette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1640)[English]Thank you very much. I appreciate a few more questions. I'm looking forward to the briefing if we can finally get our dates straight.I understood in the response to some of the other questions about Somalia that some of the assistance is Canada supporting Canadian NGOs, which in turn go to the African countries to deliver aid. If that's so, I'm really happy to hear that, because there was a time when that funding was cut, when we didn't have communities working directly with communities. I've always found that is among the most valid, reliable aid because then it's not some government official or some highly paid consultant going in.Is my understanding correct that in South Sudan some of the work that is going on is to a certain extent Canada supporting Canadian-based NGOs working directly with, for example, some of the women's organizations or women in communities in South Sudan?Democratic Republic of the CongoNon-governmental organizationsRepublic of South SudanSomaliaRobertNaultHon.KenoraMarc-AndréFredette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1640)[English]I'm happy to hear that because I know women in the Northwest Territories who have initiated midwifery and have really improved the situation for northern women.You might want to be thinking about giving them an opportunity—although they are very busy in the Northwest Territories—because their circumstances and isolation in rural communities may well be very similar, as opposed to doing it in Toronto or Vancouver, or whatever.I'm very interested in Canadian aid for good governance. I worked in Jamaica, Indonesia, and Bangladesh on environmental projects. Essentially what it was about was good governance and trying to put in place systems. Of course, you do the financial system. You do anti-corruption, but there's also actually working right down to the lower level in teaching them how you do protocols, matching up with Canadian counterparts and so forth.I'm wondering how much of the percentage of aid that is going to Africa is actually on good governance. How do you actually run a local government? How do you engage the community in that direction?Democratic Republic of the CongoGovernanceInternational development and aidRepublic of South SudanSomaliaMarc-AndréFredetteMarc-AndréFredette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1645)[English]My final question is on ebola for the DRC.My understanding is that Canada is going to step up and provide some assistance. Is that additional or is that just redirected aid?Democratic Republic of the CongoEbola hemorrhagic feverHumanitarian assistance and workersRepublic of South SudanSomaliaMarc-AndréFredetteNicolasSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1645)[English] Thanks.NicolasSimardRobertNaultHon.Kenora//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1115)[English]I have an amendment that needs to come before the next one. I have prepared it in English and French. I gave one to the Liberals and one to the Conservatives.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English] I would call it NDP-41.1. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]After line 22, it should say...and just before “Decision-Making”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsOlivierChampagneMr.OlivierChampagneMr.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]It's LIB-43.OlivierChampagneMr.OlivierChampagneMr.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]Yes, I know, but LIB-39 comes after where I'm putting this. I would put this in right after the heading “Decision-Making”.OlivierChampagneMr.OlivierChampagneMr.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]It's above “Decision-Making”? Okay.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsOlivierChampagneMr.OlivierChampagneMr.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]Oh, okay. That's fine. I'm happy to go second.OlivierChampagneMr.DeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]Yes. Ms. May's is first.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]It is NDP-41.1.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]No, this actually comes after.... Okay: NDP-40.1; whatever you say.This proposes adding, right after the heading “Decision-Making”, a definition for “adaptive management”. This was pointed out, I think to everyone, by Professor Olszynski of the University of Calgary when he testified before us. He spoke to science and the importance of adaptive management. Presumably in response to that, Mr. Bossio actually amended LIB-43, adding in the term “adaptive management”. We haven't gotten to LIB-43 yet, but as has been pointed out, adaptive management isn't defined anywhere in the act. Now, I've noted that the minister, in drafting her bill, from time to time adds in definitions where they relate to just that part of the bill. This is the part of the bill that deals with adaptive management, so the suggestion is that the logical place to put it would be at the beginning of that whole part of the bill. That would be on page 38, between “Decision-Making” and “Minister's decision”.I provided the recommended definition to everyone. I don't think I need to read it out. The recommendation is that a uniform definition is required. There seem to be a lot of differences of opinion between proponents, consultants, and departments on understanding what that is. It's not a bad idea, in terms of providing greater certainty, for this to be what the government says “adaptive management” is for the purposes of this act.I'm supporting Mr. Bossio's later amendment.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]We don't need unanimous consent for me to move my motion.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]This is the only place in the bill the term is used. There is no conflict with the rest of the bill.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]I am going to suggest not moving NDP-41 and instead moving NDP-42.The essence of NDP-42 is that throughout the act, there's deep concern by the public that the factors, which is what got people convinced that the government was willing to consider the aspects of sustainable development.... By the time you move forward in the bill, most of those factors disappear. The essence of this is that the proposed section 22 factors must be taken into account in these decisions. It goes through every section and does the same thing and requires the minister and the cabinet to consider the same proposed section 22 factors in making any decision on public interests. Just have them all read together; that's the essence of this amendment. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]Okay, I'm taking out NDP-43 anyway. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English]I'm not moving that one.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English] You're not saying “must” because that's my amendment. Yours says "are to be".C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]I would just comment that if the wording as it is right now—“must include consideration of”—does not mean that they genuinely must take those into account.... It seems Mr. Fast is suggesting that it's completely discretionary. I would suggest that we vote on that basis. That is the way it is being interpreted by some parties.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]I don't think there's any point in bringing that forward. It's essentially the same, just more demonstrative.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]Are you going to move it, or is it considered moved already? I have a question to ask about it.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]I think it's still limiting. I don't understand how this is an improvement. I think, in fact, you're limiting how they will base their decision on the report by considering far fewer factors than the 22 factors that were considered in doing the report. Is that still the message, that neither the cabinet nor the minister have to consider all 22 factors that the agency or panel had to consider?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]In fact, it says the opposite. It says that it will be based on the report with respect...with a consideration to a much limited list of factors. It must be based on the report and consideration of far fewer factors. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsWilliamAmosPontiacDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]I have a point of order. Has LIB-42 been removed?ElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]I have a right to speak to it.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]I have concerns with the provision, but they're different. I think that it would be ultra vires in this bill to assign to the federal government the authority to decide if provincial laws are respected. I understand the intent, but I don't think the way it's worded would be allowed under federal law. I think that both of them would be deemed to be ultra vires, because the federal government should not be the authority that will decide that provincial laws are complied with. I think the best resolution to this is to always have joint reviews. That would be the preference.However, I understand where the member is going. It certainly would make sense if.... For example, a province can have a higher standard than the federal government, but not a lower standard for a toxin. That is a good message. If they're going to make a decision based on toxins, they should be based on the provincial law. I don't think it makes sense in the way that this is drafted, because I think you're saying that the federal government would decide whether or not the provincial law had been respected. I think that would be ultra vires of the federal government.Shall we ask the experts?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1210)[English]Absolutely, it should be included. Otherwise, what's the point of doing the regional and strategic assessments? C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]I will reiterate this. The call for using, adding in, and defining this term are one and the same. That's based on research that says that empirical work in Canada and the United States indicates that neither proponents, consultants, nor federal departments and agencies have a shared understanding of what the term means. Despite supposed policy considerations, it's not being done properly.By providing a definition, the suggestion is that you go beyond the ad hoc—in other words, making it up every time. When you require this, you actually have a clear definition, so that everybody is on the same base. There's no reason why the definition couldn't be added in, at the beginning of proposed section 64. It could say, “for the purpose of this section”, which has happened throughout the bill, where we have added in definitions.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]I'm suggesting that we put the definition in that I had recommended, where I thought it made more sense, but it could be added in, just before proposed section 64. It would say, “For the purposes of this section, this definition of adaptive management shall apply.” Without a definition, I don't think we're adding anything to the bill. Nobody knows what we're adding.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Will there be there no consideration of adaptive management during the impact assessment review? Is it only going to be considered later in decision-making?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Well, there is no discussion of adaptive management during the impact assessment. That's my concern.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsBrentParkerBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English] All of these are related. The basic intent is that the decision statement must include an evidence-based justification for any trade-offs that were made between or among the the public interest considerations in proposed section 63. It requires that there can't be transparency and accountability without expressly requiring a reasonably detailed explanation of how and why the trade-offs were made. Also, the reasons for the decision must provide a cogent, evidence-based account of why, for example, a project was approved despite the likelihood of adverse environmental effects or impacts on indigenous rights and interests. As well, it allows for amendments to the decision statement in response to unforeseen changes.One thing I would add is that is in proposed paragraph (a.1) it would say that “the Minister disagrees with” any of “the conclusions”, and the same under proposed paragraph 65(1)(e), which is after line 11 on page 41, “terms and conditions of” any “approval”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]I will reiterate that paragraph (e) clearly delineates that responsibility will be assigned to any “appropriate federal authority”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]No, I'm just reiterating.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]This one is very straightforward. It comes from a number of northern Alberta first nations. It essentially is saying that it requires that the consultations with affected indigenous peoples be completed before the decision statement is issued. It increases certainty by ensuring that Canada has fulfilled its obligations under both section 35 of the Constitution and the UNDRIP.Very clearly, it is simply adding in the condition that they won't actually make the final decision until they have completed the consultations with any indigenous peoples that may be impacted by that decision, consistent with what the government has committed to.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]I'm puzzled as to what matters an enforcement officer can actually enforce under this bill. Maybe the officials could tell us.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]This was called for by a good number of those who participated in the interviews for the expert panel, and also by those before us. It would simply add a statutory right to appeal of a ministerial or cabinet decision on designated projects. The appeal would be to the Federal Court and would be on questions of law and mixed questions of law and fact. It was specifically recommended by both the Canadian Environmental Law Association and by Professor Dr. Meinhard Doelle, who proposes that we have an additional tribunal, which we'll come to later.This is normal for any type of assessment process like this, and it's kind of surprising that it's missing. It is normal in any provincial environmental assessment process that you would be able to seek a determination on a question of law or mixed question of law and fact.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]It may have the same issue. In this amendment, we delete lines 21 to 23 on page 45. That removes the exemption from a participant funding program for assessments conducted through a substitution by another jurisdiction. A substitution, supposedly, the government is saying, could include federal officials appearing and speaking to matters related to federal...and certainly could include members of the public indigenous testifying and bringing forward evidence related to federal responsibility, even though the federal government has said that it will let a province or territory run the review.There needs to be participant funding to cover anybody who is engaged in any hearing that is dealing with federal areas of responsibility. That should be taken out. Surely the government is going to provide participant funding for anybody who is speaking to matters related to federal jurisdiction in the review of a project.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]One of the greatest surprises and disappointments of this bill is that it's totally vacuous on participant funding or the right to participate.What this amendment does is clarify the process on how a participant funding process would work, and that would be determined by regulations to be issued and/or agency guidelines. The amendment proposes new subsections to proposed section 75 to clarify how a participant funding program is to be established: the procedures, the guidelines, the submission rules, who determines under proposed section 36 where there's a review panel, where there's a regional or strategic assessment, any right to request, and any rules and procedures for cost advances. These are all normal procedures that are usually in impact assessment procedure. They certainly exist in my province.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]This one is after proposed subsection 75(2). I'm adding whole proposed subsections (3), (4), (5), (6), (7), and (8).C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]You're speaking of NDP-48. This is NDP-49, and it would occur just before “Cost Recovery” and just after proposed subsection (2).C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]Surely what Mr. Fast is proposing here is exactly what should happen under proposed section 76. My understanding is that industry would have every right to be engaged in the process when promulgating the regulations to actually determine what fees may or may not be determined.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]Yes, if they have faith in the regulatory process.(Amendment negatived: nays 6, yeas 3)C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeeEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRecorded divisionsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]I'm also proposing a section 82.1.Do you want me to do them at the same time?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]With regard to proposed section 81, I am adding to the definition of “project” because there is a third category. I'm finding, frankly, this whole section very convoluted, and I don't really understand why it's drafted the way it is. However, there is a third category: activities not on federal lands. A federal assessment can occur on projects on federal lands and also on projects on non-federal lands. Authorities have power on federal lands and also on non-federal lands. In other words, they could be aboriginal lands. They could be territorial lands. They could be provincial lands.I am also proposing a new paragraph under proposed section 81:(c) a physical activity that is carried out on lands other than federal lands, but that is regulated by a federal authority or wholly or partially financed by a federal authority.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]I'm not reassured by that because this part talks about projects carried out on federal lands, and it talks about projects outside Canada. It, therefore, should also deal with projects that are not on federal lands. Why are we excluding that huge category of lands where, frankly, most of the federal assessments occur, or used to occur before they were all exempted?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1305)[English]I'm not convinced.ChristineLoth-BownDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1305)[English] I understand what the exceptions are. I'm just asking why you are not also applying those to non-federal lands. You're essentially saying that an authority can't carry out the project if they've given money or will partly authorize the project. Why do you not also have a provision related to a project on non-federal lands? It seems logical. You're completely missing that third category of where projects can occur: federal lands, non-federal lands, and foreign lands, but you don't have the non-federal lands.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJean-SébastienRochonDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1305)[English]So you're saying in some cases the authority can run the environmental impact assessment instead of the agency or a panel, but they are completely different factors.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsBrentParkerBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1310)[English]Unbelievable.BrentParkerDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1310)[English]Madam Chair, before we move forward, I have an amendment to proposed section 82 on the floor.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1310)[English]It's very simple. I would be removing proposed paragraph (a) of proposed section 82.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1310)[English]There are two parts to it, so can I do them in two separate...?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1315)[English]The first one was for proposed section 82, as I said. I would remove proposed paragraph (a).C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanLindaDuncanEdmonton Strathcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1315)[English]I believe that the assessment should be done by the agency or panel, not by the authority. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsLindaDuncanEdmonton StrathconaDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1315)[English]On page 48, after line 3, I would add the new proposed section 82.1, along the lines of what we've been discussing, “An authority must not carry out a project on non-federal lands, exercise any power or perform any duty or function...or provide financial assistance unless the authority determines that the carrying out of the project is not....” It's the same as proposed section 82, but it applies to non-federal lands.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1315)[English]That's correct.It is word for word the same as proposed section 82, but instead of saying “federal lands”, it would say “on non-federal lands”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]My amendment is before PV-69. I have the copies here in both languages.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]I am on page 48, at line 19.It's quite straightforward. This is what I have been calling for consistently and what the witnesses have been calling for. It would be for the factors in proposed section 84. It would replace lines 19 to 31 with the factors listed in proposed section 22. It simply means that if an authority is going to do the assessment, they should do the assessment in the same way the agency would do the assessment, based on the same factors.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]I am replacing all of those factors in lines 19 to 31. It's actually to line 33, rather than line 31.Then it would say, “must include consideration of the factors listed in section 22”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English]I'd like an explanation as to why the federal government would not have to consider that.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English]It's completely puzzling to me. The authority would consider impacts on non-indigenous communities in Canada and would consider comments from the public, but it would not consider any concerns identified by indigenous peoples. Are you seriously going to put this forward?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]Am I reading this to say that the authority can decide that the public doesn't have to be invited to provide comments?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJohnAldagCloverdale—Langley City//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]If the public can comment.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsBrentParkerBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]You're saying that the notice is inviting. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsBrentParkerBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]This is a very important one brought forward by a number of the lawyers who testified, including Professor Meinhard Doelle from Halifax.After line 27 on page 50 we would add 91.1 just before the heading “Regional Assessments and Strategic Assessments”. That would impose a clear responsibility on federal authorities to carry out the regulatory duties, powers, or functions with respect to the approved projects to ensure effective implementation of the follow-up programs. It would ensure transparency of the results provided through a central federal registry. It would require the federal authorities to actually perform their duties and functions. We dealt with this before on enforcement. That was why I raised the question about what exactly the impact assessment agency would do. You do an environmental impact assessment and then you need to go back to the regulatory authorities who are charged in their mandate legislation to actually give licences or give approvals and so forth. This would require that they take into consideration the recommendations and the directions under the impact assessment and actually deliver the responsibilities and then make it known on the central registry that they have taken those actions.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1340)[English]Amendment PV-76 I think comes after my amendment NDP-56.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1340)[English]Before we continue, can I ask what time we're going to adjourn or recess?EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1345)[English]Again, this is giving some kind of specifics to regional and strategic assessments. It's recommended strongly by the expert panel report. They said that a discretionary approach to carrying out regional studies under the current act has not been used. Regional and impact assessments are too important to long-term federal interest to be triggered on an ad hoc basis. A schedule should be created to prioritize which region should require regional assessment, and it's sometimes impossible to deal with broad objectives in a project impact assessment without strategic impact assessment providing direction. This was strongly supported by Canadian Environmental Law Association, Professor Doelle, and the Canadian Environmental Network.The amendment would require that:95.1 (1) The Minister must establish and maintain a list of priority regional and strategic assessments, and updates it at least annually. The Minister must, in each calendar year, conduct at least one regional assessment and one strategic assessment included in the list established under subsection (1).C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1535)[English]Will you explain how it's different?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsWilliamAmosPontiacWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1535)[English]I think I can probably add that simply deciding to add “scientific information” makes it different. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsWilliamAmosPontiacDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1540)[English]I have a question.Proposed subsection 102(1) in the amendment, as far as I can read, is identical to what it reads right now. I don't understand what's being done there.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1540)[English]Oh, sorry. It's funny. Sometimes the drafters do that and sometimes they don't.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1540)[English]Okay. Thanks.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1540)[English]Are you saying that because members of this committee are doing it, not the government?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1540)[English]The government can make this change when they retable the bill.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1540)[English] It's a reminder that none of us are here representing the government.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1540)[English]Proposed section 103.4 says that you can't receive remuneration, so you should be okay.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1550)[English]I can't conceive of any credible tribunal that has no remuneration. I would like to propose a subamendment to this to strike proposed section 103.4, and then I would feel I could vote on it. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1550)[English] I thought you decided your ruling already?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1550)[English]I know it's going to get voted down by the non-government government members, but I'm just stating where my position is.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1550)[English]It is incredible to consider there would be an appeal tribunal that receives no remuneration.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1550)[English] I'd like to move that subamendment. I'd like to take proposed section 103.4 out.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]Running along the same theme, this amendment modifies proposed subsection 106(1) to create a permanent record that can be used as a reference and lessons for future cases. At line 29 to 31 on page 55, we are adding “and maintained permanently”.The second part ensures that the data, and not just subjective reports and other records, be made public, so it's all data collected. There has been a propensity for agencies to just give a summary of data where analysis is done for sometimes “political” reasons. The first part is that they be maintained permanently for reference, for other reviews as well, and the second is that all data collected be posted, not just a summary of the data.(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeeEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRecorded divisionsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]The amendment would add the following to line 3 on page 58:(b.1) prescribing the process for applications for costs and the awarding of costs for public participation in the participant funding program established under section 75, and the issuance of guidelines for funding following consultation with the public;This requires the cabinet to make regulations for how the participant funding process will be conducted rather than leaving it on an ad hoc basis. It's necessary to provide direction and cost awards through regulations made under proposed section 109 rather than at the mere discretion of the agency. This is providing some level of certainty and clarity and fairness across the board for all reviews so that communities, indigenous people, and anyone coming forward will know what the rules are for costs. This is normally what all assessment tribunals do. They make known what the rules are for applying for costs. There's usually a kind of chart that shows how much an engineering witness is paid, how much a lawyer is paid, and how much people will be paid to travel to the location, organize the community, or coordinate with other intervenors and so forth. That's what this does. It provides that there will actually be clear regulations on how those costs are assessed.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1600)[English]This amendment, at line 23 on page 58, would allow the Governor in Council to make regulations restricting the minister's actions when entering into agreements with other jurisdictions. Proposed paragraphs 114(1)(c) and (f) deal with the minister entering into agreements or arrangements with other jurisdictions. This limits the discretion and would require that the Governor in Council make regulations. People are very, very concerned about what kinds of agreements might be entered into, including substitutions and so forth, or arrangements with other jurisdictions on cross-border assessments. They highly recommend that there be some kind of clear guidance provided by the Governor in Council any time the minister considers entering into those agreements.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1600)[English] On the theme of legal certainty, this revision at line 4 on page 59 changes “The Minister may make regulations” to the “Minister must make regulations”. The reason for this is that this entire bill is rife with discretion, and there's great concern about that. If I heard anything from the majority of witnesses, it was the concern about the level of discretion. What this would do is actually require the minister—not give her the option—to issue regulations in those areas: procedures; prescribing the information required; respecting participant funding; designating physical activities; and respecting what's in the registry. It would ensure a full suite of regulations to provide a greater level of legal certainty to everybody who is participating in the review process.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]What's the difference in proposed paragraph (c) from what it is now?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJohnAldagCloverdale—Langley City//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]Is it the last part of the paragraph? What does that mean: “respecting circumstances”? You're adding:and respecting circumstances, in relation to an activity, in which a time limit may be suspended;What the heck does that mean?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]I think they need to explain it because they're tabling it.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English] I can read what it says. I'm asking them why it is necessary to add it.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]You are saying that NDP-57 was dealt with?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]If you say so....DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]Yes. I'm proposing a new section 112.1, which, given the fact that they're not mandatory, would give the minister one year to make regulations concerning those specified categories. They include the power to designate a physical activity, the posting of a notice on commencement of an impact assessment, the scope of factors, public participation, the effects set out in the report, delegation to another jurisdiction, approval of conditions for substitution, determinations as to the public interest, conditions in relation to adverse effects, and the minister's obligations regarding a request for assessment. That is, she would have to establish principles and criteria and provide guidance respecting all of those matters.The second part adds additional areas where the minister must make regulations, and provides the minister with a broad suite of regulation-making powers, ensuring that regulations under these areas are made in a timely manner. It includes public participation procedures, panel procedures, criteria under proposed section 9 if you're designating, direction on how to carry out effective cumulative impact assessments, and so forth.Again, these recommendations were made by a number of witnesses and briefs, calling for greater certainty in how the process is going to be applied.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1615)[English]NDP-59 removes the minister's discretionary power to issue guidelines or codes of practice, or to establish criteria for the appointment of members on review panels or committees in proposed sections 92 and 93. Proposed section 92 deals with regional assessments where the region is entirely on federal lands, and proposed section 93 deals with regional assessments where the region is only partially within or is entirely outside federal lands.Essentially, it's the same thing again. This isn't about the minister making regulations. It's about her issuing guidelines and codes of practice, and criteria for the appointment of members on the review panels. It all seems to be very sensible, fair, open, and transparent, providing legal certainty.I will speak to NDP-60 as well, since we're doing them together. Again, it adds a new section 114.1 and makes it mandatory, as follows:For the purposes of this Act, the Minister must (a) issue guidelines and codes of practice respecting the application of this Act; (b) establish criteria for the appointment of members of review panels; andActually, we only need to do one or the other. Obviously, this is something a lot of people called for. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1615)[English]That's for disbursements; that's not any fee. That's for travel and other expenses, disbursements. It's my understanding that it is perfectly appropriate. That's under Treasury Board guidelines.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1620)[English]Are you saying there's not a single advisory council...? Did we not make this same recommendation for CEPA?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1620)[English]We did for CEPA. Do you remember?EdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1620)[English]Yes.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1620)[English]If it has been that way in practice, that doesn't mean the government can't finally be more up front.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]Are we given assurance here that members of advisory councils are going to have their costs paid?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]We're not...?EdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]So will only those people who can afford to come on their own be on the advisory council? All right.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]I have a question on this, and we were going to run into this because of the decision by the Liberal members to do this. It's my understanding that the claim of confidentiality rises because it is traditional knowledge. It's about the ceremonies. It's about where the traplines may be, where the burial sites are, and so forth. It's not just any indigenous knowledge, so I think it has been extremely widened now. Does that mean then that the panel is going to have to do a ruling on every single bit of information, testimony, and evidence that any indigenous person provides to this review?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]How are they going to do this?JohnAldagCloverdale—Langley CityDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]That means that for any testimony, any information, any evidence by an indigenous government, community, or individual, we're going to make a decision in advance on whether every aspect of their intervention is going to be given in confidence.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]That's what it says, because it's no longer just traditional knowledge, it's all indigenous knowledge.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJohnAldagCloverdale—Langley City//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]I'm not necessarily saying I'm against it, but I don't know how they're going to do that.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]How do you put together proposed subsection 119(1), which requires written consent, and then proposed subsection 119(2)? I'm not sure which one supersedes the other. Let's consider public. It says you have to have written consent on everything that represents indigenous knowledge that is provided to both parties.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English]I think it was easier to deal with when it was just traditional knowledge, but it's going to be a huge task for indigenous intervenors now to to scrutinize the entirety of their intervention and clarify what is in confidence and what isn't.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English]Is that fair? I don't know.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1640)[English]In proposed paragraph 119(2)(b), “for use in legal proceedings”, that's by whom? Does that mean the Government of Canada can violate the confidentiality because a first nation has taken them to court? I don't understand what proposed paragraph 119(2)(c) means. What are the “prescribed circumstances”? That's like a cannon hole through the whole thing. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1640)[English]Amendment LIB-64 is written totally differently from LIB-61. LIB-61 says “a committee”, which is probably correct. LIB-64 says “the committee”. What's “the committee”?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1645)[English]They're all changing proposed section 119. It would have been easier if they had just given us a new proposed section 119. We're just going line by line by....C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1645)[English]We haven't voted on LIB-62 yet, have we?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]I have a question. I see new proposed subsection 119(2.1) basically nullifying proposed subsection 119(1), because proposed section 119(1) is clear. It cannot be disclosed without written consent. Under the new proposed subsection 119(2.1), we're going to bring everybody together. In other words, as long as we consult you, we're going to nullify your consent.If this relates to proposed paragraph 119(2)(b), which is for legal proceedings, why would the minister, the agency, the committee, or the review panel have any say whatsoever? Once you're into litigation, you're before the courts. Surely you don't go back to the agency or the panel and deal with whether or not this information can be disclosed. It doesn't make any sense to me.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsSylvieBoucherBeauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d'Orléans—CharlevoixDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]That's not my issue. Legal proceedings are outside of the review process. That's what a legal proceeding is.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]That's fine, but legal proceedings are legal proceedings, so it's way too broad a provision.Legal proceedings, I think anybody would say they're in court. If you just said “in the proceedings of the assessment”, that's different, but I interpret “legal proceedings” as including those in court.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English] It doesn't say that.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJean-SébastienRochonDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]It doesn't say that. Legal proceedings are legal proceedings.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1655)[English]At the provincial level, because the courts are clogged, because many of the parties to these reviews would prefer to just sit down and work it out, the tribunals have incorporated alternative dispute resolution—or ADR—in their processes, and that is exactly what is being proposed here, “with the consent of the parties”. It requires the consent of the parties who want to do the ADR to refer part of the review to ADR. Rather than going to the courts and arguing about some provision of what is proceeding, it would be possible for the parties to enter into an agreement to go into ADR. It's not binding, but a review panel could take into account the results of the ADR and include that in recommendations or in their decision. The review panel must make the results of the ADR public subject to the consent of the parties, if it's going to be included in their ruling.This was recommended as the bill should recognize and strongly encourage informal opportunities for participation that involve two-way dialogue and discussion, including the undertaking of mediation and other forms of alternative dispute resolution. Quite often what can happen is that if there's something highly contentious.... Well, you have a tribunal, but in this case, you might have a panel or even the agency doing the review, and they may say that if the parties think they can go off and resolve it and then come back with a resolution, they potentially will incorporate that. I think it's a sensible way to go. It seems to be the way most jurisdictions are going. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1700)[English]This adds two new paragraphs, on page 78 after line 9.Here we're dealing with the agency's duties. It would add in the duty to “track compliance with monitoring and reporting obligations with respect to the follow-up programs”—the Liberals like that term—“and report annually on the matter, including on aspects of follow-up programs that are under the control of other jurisdictions”.Secondly, it would add:ensure that lessons learned about the accuracy of the predictions made during past impact assessments are shared with the public and brought to the attention of those involved in relevant future impact assessments under this Act.Clearly the agency should be responsible for tracking compliance. We've added this whole part about enforcement and compliance, so it seems logical that it would be the agency that would track and report on that.There have been ongoing concerns by the public that when conditions are attached, there is no follow-up and no reporting on whether those are being delivered on. It would require reporting annually on what's happening with compliance with the conditions, and to report about resulting actions in terms of adaptive management of the approved project.There you go.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]This one, at line 12 on page 78, gives clear legislative direction to the agency to consult indigenous people who are affected by the project. It prevents an ad hoc approach to consultation. This was raised by a number of first nations. They thought it was important enough to make the point that it is not sufficient simply to say consult with indigenous peoples. It must specify “that may be affected by the carrying out of the designated project”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]A perfect example is Site C.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]I guess first nations in Alberta and Métis will continue not to be consulted.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]I have a question about this. I know that industry is concerned about the transition period, but presumably the former agency isn't going to exist anymore. There's going to be this whole new entity, so how do they deliver an assessment under the previous legislation when supposedly we have a whole new process? Does that mean the public will have less rights to participate? There are a lot of changes that the Liberals claimed are coming forward. I'd like to have an idea of how many projects we think this may apply to, and how we're going to make sense of the fact that they're revamping the system completely and creating a whole new agency. What happens to the old agency?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]What about the provisions to do with the NEB and the CER?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]Except there won't be an NEB anymore.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]It's clear as mud. I didn't get an answer, though, on how many projects we think are going to—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]Thirty projects.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1740)[English]I have to find it again in all this.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1740)[English]If you have it there that would be helpful because I have so much paper here.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1740)[English]Was it “adaptive management”?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1740)[English]Is that NDP-40.1?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1740)[English]Page 38, line 22.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1740)[English]That's correct. My understanding, and the opinion I'm given, is that the way the rules were changed for committees, and then going back to the House, if you had an opportunity to bring forward the amendment at committee and chose not to, you could not bring it at report stage.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1740)[English]That's what I'm saying. DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanLindaDuncanEdmonton Strathcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1740)[English]This looks like the only chance.LindaDuncanEdmonton StrathconaDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1800)[English]We voted twice on LIB-76, I think.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1805)[English]I want to reiterate the comments by Ms. May. I'm repeatedly stunned that we spent a lot of money on two expert panels travelling the country hearing from everyone, and then, at clause-by-clause, we are completely refusing to take the advice from the expert panels. This is another one. The same issue that we had with the NEB, we have with this panel. They promised they would have independent review bodies. Why on earth are we appointing more advisory bodies in here? Are we going to ignore their advice, too? I find it very disappointing. It was a very impressive expert panel, and they recommended against this. I agree with Ms. May.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1810)[English]If my colleague would be willing to pull his amendment, I think a better way would be to put on line 30, after “natural resources”, a comma, “and will serve ex officio”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1810)[English]Yes, LIB-70 is his amendment.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1810)[English]The answer is yes. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1810)[English]Yes, there have been dissents. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1815)[English]It will read, “Minister of Natural Resources, and will serve ex officio.”C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]I'd like a recorded vote.(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 3 [See Minutes of Proceedings])C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeeEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRecorded divisionsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]I have a question on this.WilliamAmosPontiacDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]This is a question for Mr. Amos. Mr. Amos has a background in environmental law—he's a lawyer, the same as me—and would he not agree with me that it's nice to put it in the preamble, but it means it's not binding? Does he intend to be bringing this forward to also make it as a binding provision in the substance of the bill?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]So in sum, you do not intend to make it binding in part 2.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsWilliamAmosPontiacWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]It's okay.WilliamAmosPontiacDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]Through all of that, I got that the answer is no.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]I suggested adding days. What days had you suggested?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]I'm happy to add days. Let's come back on Wednesday and Thursday.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1835)[English]It could have been.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1835)[English]No, I had my hand up first.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJohnAldagCloverdale—Langley City//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1835)[English]I take offence to the suggestion that the committee has been flexible in adding days. I have already given up all of my responsibilities. I am the critic for another portfolio. I have not—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1835)[English]Ed, excuse me.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1835)[English]I've been unable to deliver my other responsibilities in my portfolio because I am dedicated to trying to improve this bill.A number of things that Mr. Fast said are a hundred per cent true. I've put the question to the minister many times. We've put the question to Minister Carr many times. We asked, “Will you be accepting amendments to this bill?” In good faith, we worked diligently. The public worked diligently. First nations, Métis, and Inuit worked diligently. Industry worked diligently. Lawyers, law firms, and the law schools worked diligently. Yet every one of those amendments are being voted down, not even with consideration.I find it absolutely astounding that this committee, which is essentially the environment and sustainable development committee.... We do not deal with the Navigation Protection Act. It was already reviewed by the transport committee. It would have made more sense for that part of this bill to go to that committee. They could have done an efficient review, having reviewed it already. We don't deal with the CER. That's the natural resources committee. So here we are, and I think we went through fairly efficiently the review of the first part of the bill, which should have been our responsibility. We should be continuing this review. We should be giving due respect to all the people who participated, for two and a half years, when the government asked for input on reforming the NEB, reforming the Navigation Protection Act impact assessment. We are giving short shrift to the last two parts of this bill, and I find it absolutely outrageous.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1840)[English]Just for the record, I do not agree that this should be—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1840)[English]Let's do a recorded vote.(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeeEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRecorded divisionsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1845)[English]I'm presuming you want to cross out “traditional” and put in “indigenous”. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1850)[English] We are at line 31 of page 97. We would be adding in a new paragraph: (e) to ensure that a healthy and stable climate is maintained for future generations.This, as Ms. May has said, amends the purpose of the act to include dealing with climate change as part of the operations of the CER. As the Pembina Institute have said to us, “A 21st-century energy regulator must integrate climate change considerations throughout its functions and activities.” They have also said, “ This is necessary to ensure that we meet our commitments under the Paris Agreement and is imperative to protect Canada's long-term interests in a decarbonizing world.”As we hear the Minister of Environment and Climate Change say in the House ad nauseam, we must balance economic development and environmental protection, including taking action on reducing carbon. That is exactly what this provision does, to ensure that a healthy and stable climate is maintained for future generations in decisions by the CER.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1855)[English]Can I just ask a question about that?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1855)[English]A big controversy in my province is abandoned wells. Are you saying then also that the federal government would have responsibility for abandoned wells?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1855)[English]I guess it's going to be included. I'm happy to hear that.(Amendment agreed to: yeas 9 ; nays 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeeEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRecorded divisionsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1855)[English] We're at the same place in the bill, page 99, line seven.The proposal is to replace clause (e) with the following, so that the regulator's mandate would include:(e) advising and reporting on energy matters, including renewable energy, energy efficiency, the impacts of the production, distribution and use of energy on climate, the impacts of a changing climate on the production, distribution and use of energy, as well as Canada's transition to a low carbon economy;Again, this was brought forward by the Pembina Institute. As they stated, the regulator right now does not have any explicit mandate to report or advise on Canada's supposed transition to a low-carbon economy. It's just the same old, same old oil and gas, etc. They also add that accurate reporting on the impacts on climate from the production, distribution, and use of energy will help Canada meet its international commitments on climate.What this is doing is moving the Canadian energy regulator into the 21st century and beyond by actually finally defining energy as more than fossil fuels.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1900)[English]I don't see anything different.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1900)[English]May I comment on that?WilliamAmosPontiacDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1900)[English]I'm sorry, but the amendment to proposed section 3 was refused, and that's where you would have had to add the UNDRIP. Right now the definition for the determination of the rights is limited to the Constitution, so it does not include the UNDRIP.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1900)[English]We are on page 100, speeding along here. We would add a new subsection 14(1.1) at line 3. It makes clear what the qualifications would be for each member of the board of directors for the CER, including respect for indigenous traditional knowledge and world view, community development, public engagement, and renewable energy. It also ensures the makeup of the board is diverse. The comment from Pembina is that expanding the required competencies of the board and the commissioners to include such factors as indigenous traditional knowledge and world view, and expertise in climate science, renewable energy, and public consultation will strengthen the bill and what they thought was the intended 21st century role for the CER. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1910)[English]This is a very important one. This goes to the crux of why there is now a CER and there will no longer be an NEB. It's on page 100, replacing lines 26 and 27, taking out the phrase that reads “while exercising the powers or performing the duties and functions of a director”.The intent is to broaden the scope of when a director is in a conflict of interest, by not limiting it to when they are exercising the powers or performing the duties as a director. This is to require a much higher level of ethics, and that a director should absolutely have no occasion where they may be in a conflict of interest.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1915)[English]With NDP-69, again we're dealing with conflict of interest, but now we're dealing with conflict of interest for the CEO. This would remove the qualifier, which is only “while exercising the powers or performing the duties and functions” of the CEO. This expands it to all decisions made by the CEO.Again, those were deep concerns on behalf of the public. That's what happened to Energy East. There are strong recommendations that we can prevent that kind of a problem with the disbanding of the CER by ensuring that we have the strongest and strictest rules for conflicts of interest.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1915)[English][Inaudible—Editor] with the proponent.The Chair: Right. Fair enough. So you're adding “include”.Shall amendment NDP-69 carry?An hon. member: I'd like a recorded vote.(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeeEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRecorded divisionsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1915)[English]This has to do with the qualifications for the appointment of members to the commission. It is recommending:The commissioners appointed must reflect, to a reasonable extent—which I think is good to add—the diversity of Canadian society and must ensure that, collectively, they maintain a range of competencies, including with respect to Indigenous traditional knowledgeWe could change that; I would be willing to take out “traditional”: and worldview, community development and public engagement, renewable and non-renewable energy, and environmental and climate science.It would help to avoid claims for bias, or not treating some of the intervenors with respect, or the proponent even, if you have a wide diversity.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1920)[English]I will remove the word “traditional” because that seems consistent with what has gone on.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1920)[English]If I may respond to that, it's very common language used in legislation, to simply say “reasonable exercise of your discretion in appointments”. It's meant to make them more comfortable.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsMelArnoldNorth Okanagan—ShuswapDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1920)[English]No. It's not flexible. It means in a reasoned way. You look for diversity in a reasoned way, not in any extreme way.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1920)[English]No.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1925)[English]Madam Chair, we are now on page 105. NDP-71 is consistent with further recommendations about broadening the scope of determining when someone is in a conflict of interest. I would bring to your attention the way proposed section 29 is written. It very specifically says, “while exercising the powers or performing the duties and functions of a commissioner”. That's a pretty specific, narrow activity. You could be appointed as a commissioner, and you haven't done any work yet, and you decide to enter into a contract with one of the people who have applied, and it may or may not be reviewed. You could be holding a contract with one of those parties, but you don't do the work while you are sitting in your office and doing your work.I am deeply troubled by that very narrow description. We know why the NEB was struck down. It was because of activities between members of the NEB, governments, and officials who had interests in various proponents. Supposedly it was just friendly, it was at another activity, and so forth. I don't know why the government wants to do this so narrowly. I think it's just going to open a Pandora's box for concerns being raised.I would strongly recommend taking out “while exercising the powers or performing the duties and functions of a commissioner” to make clear that, if you are appointed as a commissioner, you simply will have clean hands.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1930)[English] Are they all Liberal amendments? DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1945)[English]Looking back in the bill, it specifically designates a lead commissioner and the role of the lead commissioner. It seems like that's the job of the lead commissioner. Otherwise, why do you have a lead commissioner? It seems like their mandate is to keep things going.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1945)[English]It's the way it is throughout the bill.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1950)[English]I would support it, but for quite different reasons, because it offers transparency. Again, a Conservative MP calling for transparency—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1950)[English]If they would vote for all my amendments, I would be really happy—no discussion.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1950)[English]Following on the previous amendment, on page 112, after line 30, would add a new heading. This is under the exercise of the commission's powers and the performance of its duties and functions. The new heading would be “Environmental and Climate Change”. It would ensure that the regulator considers Canada's commitments, international and domestic, regarding environment and climate change when making a decision, an order, or a recommendation.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1955)[English] This is on page 113, replacing lines six and 11. Consistent with what this is supposed to be talking about, the rights and interests of indigenous peoples, given the fact that the preamble says that also includes UNDRIP, I am adding UNDRIP to proposed subsections 56(1) and 56(2).C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2000)[English]What I find astounding is that the indigenous people say that they're willing to give this information to you, but you must keep it in confidence. The authority could say, “We don't agree with this designation; therefore, we will not receive the information.” But having received it in confidence, I agree, it's outrageous that they would then breach that confidence when, in fact, it was received having said, “Yes, we will receive that in full confidence. We dub this as confidential.” It's unbelievable that the indigenous peoples reveal that information, and later, for whatever purposes, the government overrides that confidence. I find it pretty stunning.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2005)[English]I want to speak to that.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2005)[English]Even if we just stick with what the courts have said, it's consult and accommodate. It's not just consult. This means nothing.Indigenous people want to give this information but only if it's provided in confidence, and then the regulator decides that, well, if the proponent wants it.... It's, “We'll talk to the indigenous people but we're going to release it anyway”. That's what that says. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2010)[English]This is under the section on public participation, public costs, public engagement, public funding, page 120. My amendment will take out section 74 and add a new provision after section 75. That provision says that:The Regulator must establish, within the corporation, a Public Intervenor Office to manage any participant funding program established under section 75, advise the Regulator on the appropriate mechanisms and timing of engagement activities and, on a voluntary basis, represent the interests and views of parties, the public—and, if appropriate, the Indigenous peoples of Canada and Indigenous organizations—on matters within the Regulator's mandate.Then it goes on about establishing the processes to engage with the public and in particular with indigenous peoples, and also that it may co-ordinate scientific and technical studies to the extent possible and could develop pools of independent experts. That's very important to intervenors and is raised quite frequently. To provide third-party independent advice and ensure information provided by the proponents, the regulator and the Public Intervenor Office is searchable, transparent, well-organized, and not subject to change so it can facilitate public access.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2015)[English]It's not encircled with the CER. It's within the CER.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2020)[English]Madam Chair, I'm not sure why you're saying NDP-75 is no longer consistent, because I'm simply adding a qualifier. They changed NDP-75 to say “the Regulator”. It says exactly the same, “For the purposes of this Act, the Regulator must”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2020)[English]Can I ask a question about the numbering? It has “241(3)”.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2020)[English]Is this for the planning stage or something? DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2025)[English]You mean it looks like they're not serious.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2025)[English]Can I make a comment on this?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2025)[English]The federal government has devolved powers in the past. When I was assistant deputy in the Yukon, we were devolving forestry. They've devolved oil and gas. This would preclude any future devolving of any powers to do with energy to a first nation government, and that would include for a renewable energy project or for all kinds of things. I think, then, for that reason, this would tie the hands of the government forever into the future to never devolve any of its powers under a first nation final agreement.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2030)[English][Inaudible—Editor]EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2030)[English]This adds the subject areas the regulator must study to include “the impacts of the production, distribution and use of energy on climate and”—the reverse—“the impacts of a changing climate on the production, distribution and use of energy”. It also adds consideration to “Canada's transition to a low carbon economy”, which the current government has committed to.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2040)[English]How is that different from what it already says?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2040)[English]It says, “The Regulator may...” in line 1. I don't understand what you're saying here.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2040)[English]We're completely getting rid of proposed paragraph 116(1)(c) and creating a whole new proposed section?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerenceHubbardDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2045)[English]I have a question for the officials. Excuse me. Don't colour me with the—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2045)[English]A major issue that has arisen in Alberta has been over who has the responsibility to authorize and export power lines. There's been a game that has gone on such that in the province of Alberta we do pieces of it, and then there's one last piece that goes as far as the border. There actually has been litigation over it. Some of you are probably aware that it should have been the National Energy Board rather than a local authority. Can you tell me whether in this bill we are clarifying that, when the intent is to build a facility in order to enable the export of electricity? Is that going to be under the ambit of the CER now?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanTerenceHubbard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2045)[English]Not interprovincial, I'm specifically talking about international.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerenceHubbardTerenceHubbard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2045)[English]They “would” have; are you saying it's not mandatory?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerenceHubbardTerenceHubbard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2050)[English]It is, so it's different than it was previously.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerenceHubbardTerenceHubbard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2050)[English]And did not seize that jurisdiction. Then, what has changed to give confidence to Albertans that the CER will be seized of its responsibility to review a power line where there is an intent to export electricity? Is there something in this bill that is going to give assurance? You say it was with the NEB, but they are not seized of that jurisdiction. Is there something in this bill that I can find to give people assurance that this time the federal authority will do that review?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerenceHubbardTerenceHubbard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2050)[English]You're saying it's the project list that's going to be the determinant.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerenceHubbardTerenceHubbard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2050)[English]We're all having to vote before we have the project list. TerenceHubbardDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2050)[English] I want to return to the matter I asked about. I look at proposed section 253 and my reading of it is the complete opposite of the answer I was given. It says that provincial laws will apply. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJeffLabonté//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2050)[English]Show me the section for international power lines.Can they elect to go by the provincial system? The proponent can elect a provincial review. Is that right?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJeffLabontéTerenceHubbard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2050)[English]How do you read that with section 257 and 259? They can elect, right?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerenceHubbardTerenceHubbard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2055)[English]So, again, it's the project list.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerenceHubbardJeffLabonté//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2055)[English]Is that totally different from what it is now?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJeffLabontéJeffLabonté//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2055)[English]And they chose not to designate it.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJeffLabontéJeffLabonté//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2055)[English]Thank you. JeffLabontéDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2105)[English] What are we doing? DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2105)[English]Amendment CPC-17 is on what page? C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2130)[English]Can I just ask...?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2130)[English]We need a qualification. It was passed by the majority of the committee.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2130)[English]It is not honest to say that the committee passed.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2130)[English]I'd like to speak to that.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2130)[English] As Ms. May said when she exited, the rules were recently changed in the House to allow non-party-status members to bring amendments to committee. What happens now with the rule is that if it is possible to bring the amendment to committee, you cannot then bring it at the report stage in the House. Therefore, Ms. May cannot participate in this, and therefore, her privileges are being impacted because she is no longer able to speak to her amendments.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2130)[English]She didn't bring a question of privilege, but she was pretty clear about it. DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2150)[English]I have the right to bring forward a motion.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]Madam Chair, given what you have said, which is only partly correct, you did not give us the alternative of having additional meetings going forward.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]The committee members are not happy with what's proceeding. Let me put forward the motion. The motion would be, “Notwithstanding—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]—the previous motions”—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]Why am I out of order?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]Says who?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]There's nothing in our previous motion that is preventing me from bringing forward another motion.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]You're not allowing me to bring forward a motion with an alternative procedure.Some hon. members: Oh, oh!C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]There was one motion. I'd like to propose an alternative.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]No, there isn't.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]You could have put it in there, but—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]It doesn't preclude.... I can say, notwithstanding that motion, I wish to move that we continue the review of the bill.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2155)[English]We have a meeting on Thursday. Why can't we continue review of the bill on Thursday?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (2245)[English]I need to ask about the transition period. I am troubled that we can't get the answer to that. If there is transition how do we know? Is there going to be a new NEB or there won't be a new NEB? C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsGarnettGenuisSherwood Park—Fort SaskatchewanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1105)[English]I just wanted to say that all three parties have put forth the exact same amendment, so I'd be happy if Ms. May got the credit for that.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]This is an issue that I raised yesterday, and it's starting to be a problem throughout this bill. I have no problem with Ms. May's proposal, except that it only mentions comments received from the public and doesn't include comments received from indigenous groups. The bill goes back and forth, sometimes just talking about the public, sometimes talking about indigenous groups. In other places, the bill requires specifically—and I think, in fact, the Liberals are going to be proposing an amendment somewhere here to add in a necessity—that indigenous submissions be considered.I would accept the amendment, but I would give it a subamendment, and after the word “public”, say “and indigenous groups”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]That would be at line 26 of the bill.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]Amendment LIB-20 can't be moved?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]Okay. This relates to specific submissions from Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation, the British Columbia Assembly of First Nations, and the Cold Lake First Nations. It would ensure that traditional knowledge is afforded the same weight by agency staff and decision-makers as western science. The expert panel called for the integration of traditional knowledge in all phases of impact assessment, and the first nations generally have been concerned that it would treated with an afterthought.Given the changes that have been made throughout the bill, I am going to amend this new subsection, though, to say, “The report must also set out how indigenous knowledge of indigenous peoples”. That's the way we seem to be drafting the bill, which is a bit nonsensical but I am willing to change the word “traditional” to “indigenous” so that it's consistent throughout the bill. I'm also adding “Subject to section 119”. I'm doing that on the floor because that's a qualifier that Mr. Bossio adds in his amendment, so I'm quite willing to add his qualifier.Amendment LIB-20 would put in the qualifier, “Subject to section 119”. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]Well, I'm first on the floor, so I would welcome an amendment from the Liberals to add, “Subject to section 119”, and to change the word “traditional” to “indigenous”. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]That's correct—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]—and to change the word “traditional” to “indigenous”.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]I welcome an amendment from Mr. Bossio.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]We don't want to vote for anything NDP. Let's just vote and make it a Liberal amendment, as long as it gets in.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]I have one dated April 27. DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]I don't think I have it.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]I have a question of clarification. Everywhere else in the bill we refer to “reasons”, and here Mr. Amos has chosen to say “rationale”. Is there a reason why we're using a completely different term here? Does it mean something different?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]The old version said “reasons”.WilliamAmosPontiacWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1125)[English]I just want clarification about why Ms. May doesn't want to reference proposed section 32. Are you thinking that it's mandatory enough that you don't have to repeat?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1125)[English]Thank you.ElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]Please don't call that yet. I wanted to have an explanation from the officials about what the different implications are if (b) is there or (b) isn't there.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]My question would be, if that is removed, is it possible that there would not be a review under this bill, and that it would be reviewed by one of those offshore boards instead?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]Okay. I'm voting against it.ChristineLoth-BownDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]I remain concerned about this, because there are strange things in this bill. For example, under this bill, the minister cannot refer a matter to a panel if an authority has already made a decision. That raises this question: why would an authority be allowed to make a decision before the decision is made about whether there needs to be an impact assessment? That doesn't give me any assurance. The question then would be, why didn't she refer it to a panel? Why does she allow them to go first ? That doesn't give me the assurance—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsBrentParkerDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]I would have been assured if it had said “before the proclamation of this bill”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsBrentParkerDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English] I don't know if any of these overlap. I don't think they do.I just want to say at the outset that tabling this is a hard decision, given all the problems with the substitution, and the fact that it's never been used historically. Frankly, I think the whole section should be removed, but I'll make an attempt to improve it.There are extreme concerns in the public with this whole part of the bill, particularly because there is no way that the federal government can bind a provincial review process. They have their own jurisdiction to decide on public participation, to decide what the review...or to decide on the terms of reference. It's a bit of a nonsensical section.I'm changing (a) to reference paragraph (a.1), which is my (b). If you go to line 17 on page 25, what I'm adding in...in other words, the minister could not approve a substitution “if the process followed by a jurisdiction includes a consideration of some but not all of the factors set out in subsection 22(1)”.In other words, they can't allow substitution of a provincial, territorial, or any other process if that other process does not require the review of all the factors in subsection 22(1), and “through a single and coordinated assessment”, unless it's with assessment. This act right now requires that all 22 factors be considered, so this is saying that you can't do a substitution if they don't also include all those factors.It adds in at line 20 on page 25, “be given an opportunity to and will participate in the assessment”.Again, there's no power in the federal government, even under this bill, to change the participation rights of a provincial review process, but we can make an attempt in that amendment.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English]In sum, rather than going through all the sections, I'll simply say—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English]I appreciate your intervention. I know it's going to be voted down anyway.I think I've made my point about the substitution part. The most critical part is where the minister is authorized to gather more information. That provision is inadequate, frankly. The expert panel was very clear that the federal authority must have the opportunity to request additional information. The problem is, in that part of the bill, there's no necessity, then, for her to undertake her own separate review. She can't require the other jurisdiction to revisit the review based on the additional information that she thinks is lacking.All of my amendments go to the fact that this whole part of the bill is inadequate to ensure that federal matters of jurisdiction are considered, and that the public and indigenous people will have an equal opportunity to participate in that review.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English]Thank you.I am adding in an (a.1). That is intended to ensure that any substituted process is concerned with the impacts only within that jurisdiction's mandate and won't have adverse effects on federal jurisdiction.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English]Can I comment on it as well?MikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English]Again, every tribunal in Canada treats the issues related to indigenous knowledge and concerns differently. Some tribunals refuse to make a ruling, some tribunals are mandated to make a ruling. I don't how the minister can possibly transfer this responsibility to another jurisdiction when there is a tribunal that is not mandated, in fact, to make the rulings that a federal tribunal would. In those cases, to me, where there are indigenous interests at stake, there should be a joint review, not a substitution.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English] Madam Chair, this ensures that a report created through the substitution process specifically complies with proposed sections 31 to 33, and that government should have good information about adverse environmental effects relating to all projects over which it has decision-making responsibility. The federal government should not be allowed to avoid due diligence by allowing the review by a province alone and conformity should mean conformity with proposed sections 31 to 33.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]Madam Chair, this makes this provision mandatory rather than giving her discretionary power. Where the minister believes that additional information is required to determine whether there are adverse effects that impact the public interest, it seems rather bizarre that she is not required to request that information. That was requested by the expert panel. Without this change, it highlights the frailties of allowing substitution. If a province fails to fully assess the impacts under federal jurisdiction, it will then essentially need a second federal-led review. It seems to make sense. It's rational that the minister must request the additional information, otherwise those matters would not have been reviewed. She may have made a mistake when she agreed to the substitution and had not had information brought to her attention that there were other adverse effects that affected federal jurisdiction. Once she becomes aware of that, she should be required to demand that information. Frankly, she should be required to then call a federal review, but that's not what this section says. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English] I wanted to also add to that from the floor, to add a new section 35.1.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]You want to do this one first? Okay.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]I'm proposing a new section 35.1. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]It's 35.1. That would be at line 32. You would add it in ahead of “Impact Assessment by a Review Panel”.It would say, “Any information provided to the minister by that jurisdiction or the proponent must be disclosed to the public.”C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]I have an amendment to paragraph 1(c) by adding after line 15 on page 27, after “1982”, “ and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People”. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]I believe this is a very important addition. I commented on this yesterday. For some bizarre reason, this bill gives absolutely no powers to panels. In all my history in representing people before tribunals, the panel had a lot of powers.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanLindaDuncanEdmonton Strathcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]This amends, on page 28, line 39, that provision allows the agency to require additional information but not the panel, yet the matter is being referred to a review panel.I propose, “designated project to a review panel, the Agency or the review panel may” request.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsLindaDuncanEdmonton StrathconaDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]Yes.I'd like us to vote on that.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]Yes, I am.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1210)[English]Then why is there a panel?The second one replaces line 3 on page 29. In addition to the power, now of only the agency, not the panel, to collect information, it requires also that information be disclosed.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1210)[English]The third one is line 5 in the same provision. It would say, “are necessary in the opinion of the Agency or the review panel, are necessary for the impact assessment by the review panel”. That seems to only make sense to me.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1210)[English]Thank you.This amendment is brought forward at the request of the Mikisew Cree, based on their experience in appearing before tribunals. Essentially what they're asking for is that the clock be stopped while the proponent meets an agency's or review panel's request for information. That only makes sense.Their experience has been that, in the past, there may be a request for information that's not provided in a timely fashion, so neither the intervenors in the proceeding nor the panel have the opportunity to review that information in a timely way.I'm doing them one by one.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1210)[English]I'm wondering if my second proposed change makes sense if the first is ruled out.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1210)[English]It doesn't matter. It's nonsensical. We simply wanted it. There's—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1210)[English]Oh, I'm sorry.(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeeEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRecorded divisionsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]I'll make the subamendment for her. I would like to replace “minister of Indian and northern development” with “minister of indigenous and northern affairs”. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]I'm looking at line 37. I don't see how you can add that in there, because then what happens to “(b) the Canadian Energy Regulator Act”? It's not related to a nuclear facility.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]I'm looking at line 37. He wants to specifically add in that a nuclear facility be regulated. Why would a nuclear facility be regulated by the Canadian energy regulator?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English] Right, and he's adding in—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]No, he's not. He is replacing that line, which simply talks about physical activities—RobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]I'm looking at (a).EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]I'm looking at (a); you're talking about (b), and I'm talking about (a).DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]CPC-5—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]Oh, sorry. So that has been withdrawn, okay. That's why I keep saying CPC-5. Very good. No wonder it didn't make any sense.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]I have a question.JeffLabontéDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]It's related to exactly what Mr. Sopuck's issue is. I just want clarification that if the minister refers, she can still do a joint panel. Is that clear in the act?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]An integrated review panel: what's that?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]Madam Chair, I now have an amendment, which is at line 14, so mine would come next. EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]Yes, my amendment would be to proposed subsection 44(3). I have it written here. I can give it to the clerk.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]It will delete line 14 and replace it with “a maximum of one of the persons appointed under CARA”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]I'm talking about line 14. I'm replacing that with “a maximum of one of the persons appointed under CARA”.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English] Me?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English]Not “at least one”, but “a maximum of one”. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPhilippeMélaJoëlGodinPortneuf—Jacques-Cartier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1245)[English]I think there's a mistake, because you're saying, add subsection 46(1) after line 8 on page 89. Section 46 is on page 32, so I don't know what you're doing here.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1245)[English]I think you have it all mixed up.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]Okay, I have an amendment I want to do from the floor for line 8, which goes before line 15.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]No, because my amendment is different, and mine should come first because it's line 8. This is a— C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]No.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]Okay, so if we're just doing LIB-33—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]But not if we're doing the other ones. DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]It's not making sense to me what the provision says. DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]It doesn't make sense the way it's drafted. MikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]I am looking at what LIB-33 says. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]“After line 15 on page 33”; it makes no sense what's being proposed.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]Sure, absolutely. Some hon. members: Agreed. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]I am looking at it and I want to speak to the way they're amending it, and I'm saying that it's not making sense to me. If they can make sense of it, I have no problem with what they're trying to do, but I'm looking....Nobody has yet spoken to how...on line 15, where are the words, “the persons”? C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]It says, “before the words, the persons”. Where does it say “the persons”?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]That's not what I have written here.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]It's whatever amendment LIB-3 was given to me.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]There are two LIB-33s, then. Is that it?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]I am now. There are two LIB-33s. Okay.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]And I raised my objection before. I had an amendment at line 8, and this amendment is at line 15.Isn't that the way it works?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]Never mind; we're changing the rules. We're supposed to go in order of the clauses.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]Mine is amending line 8.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]I'm fine with the subamendment going into mine.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]What line is that?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]What line is that?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]All right. You have me beat, then.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English] On page 89.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]No, what happened to mine on line 8?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1305)[English]You skipped my amendment.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1305)[English]I've said it 1,000 times. I did an amendment to line 8 on page 33. I was going to do it from the floor.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1305)[English]I know, and I thought you were coming back to me.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1305)[English]There is no point because you went to Ms. May's instead of mine, and it was voted down anyway.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1305)[English]I am on page 33.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1305)[English]Wasn't Ms. May's second part....DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1305)[English]Okay.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1310)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. I apologize that you don't have that in writing, but I will happily give it to the clerk. Let me read it first.My amendment to that same provision, proposed subsection 47(3), on page 33 at line 8 would be to replace line 8 with the following, “A maximum of one of the persons appointed under para-”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1310)[English]On page 278.MikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1315)[English]I don't have anything that refers to page 178.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1315)[English]No. Mine says page 46.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1315)[English]That's where I lost you.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]I guess it's just going to be the minister's favourite people, then.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]I think that may have been already passed by a Liberal amendment, but in a different way. They just put it in a different place. I'm adding that as....C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English] They put it in as 1.1. Let's see what the Liberal one said.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]I am trying to find it. I thought that was the one that Mr. Bossio just spoke to.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]I'm trying to fine that one. What page was Mr. Bossio's on? DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]I don't think I need to bring it forward, because I think it's already been passed.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]That was supported by the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation, British Columbia Assembly of First Nations, and Cold Lake First Nations. They'll be happy that's in. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English]I have about one second before the bell rings. This is on page 38 at line 22. Similar to amendments brought forward by the Liberals that I agreed to, it would add subsection (2.1) after line 22, which would read, “The report must also set out how traditional knowledge”—I will change that to “Indigenous knowledge”—“of the Indigenous peoples was taken into account and utilized in the impact assessment of a designated project.”That was called for by the Athabasca Chippewyan First Nation, the British Columbia Assembly of First Nations, and Cold Lake First Nations. It appears consistent with what we already amended to another part of the review.It's simply saying, again, that at this point the report must also set out how indigenous knowledge that was presented is taken into account.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]Can you say that again?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1555)[English]Madam Chair, before we begin, I have a matter I want to raise that has come to the attention of all the committee members.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]It's now into 2,000 to 3,000 letters that we've all received in our in-baskets today and they're continuing to come in. Canadians across the country are asking that the meetings on this bill be extended. They're deeply concerned that we won't get to the third part of the bill, on navigable waters protection, and there won't be proper review and debate of that. Since we have all received these requests, mounting into the thousands, we should seriously consider a request I made some time ago that we need to be giving reasonable attention to every one of the 800 clauses and all three parts of the bill. I do not believe we can do that in the two more meetings after this one.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]Madam Chair, there are more options than just giving us 24-hour days. We can add additional days.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]What is the crisis that we can't do a proper review of this bill?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]I thought one of us could speak up for all the people who've written to all of us.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]Is it 4,000 letters now?EdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]With all due respect, we have other responsibilities as MPs. When you're simply adding on another hour here or there when we have commitments, including to our constituents, we're simply asking for more days on this bill. What is the problem? What's the urgent business of this committee after the Tuesday that we get back?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]You're adding more hours in a day. I'm asking for more days.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]It's extra hours on. That's fine.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]Like our vote counts.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1555)[English]Madam Chair, I'm not sure at this stage how many of the provisions of the bill have been amended, but I am recommending here that we replace line 41 on page 8, again adding in a reference to “the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, adopted on September 13, 2007”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1600)[English]I was speaking. I'm not finished yet. Are there questions from the Liberals on this?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1600)[English]I have a question that I want an answer to.We have accepted the addition of the UNDRIP in other places in the bill, and I asked specifically, was the Liberal motion going forward to all provisions. No, it wasn't. We're going to do them one by one. Here, then, is a very obvious place in which the UNDRIP must be mentioned, because it talks about the rights of indigenous peoples in Canada and about section 35 of the Constitution Act.That is therefore my amendment at this place in the bill. When it is specifically titled, “Rights of Indigenous Peoples of Canada”, it seems appropriate to me that this be another place in which the UNDRIP should be referenced. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanWilliamAmosPontiac//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1600)[English]Are we doing a recorded vote?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]That's unbelievable. We'll be remembering.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]Madam Chair, this amendment specifically comes from the Grand Council of the Crees, who provided a brief and also appeared before us. They presented the opinion that, as with the Mackenzie basin agreement, the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement should similarly be referenced.Why do they argue that? Well, their agreement, the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement, is a modern treaty, and therefore it is binding and it takes precedence over any potentially incompatible legislation. I'm advised that, pursuant to that agreement, Canada is required to develop, in close co-operation with the Cree representatives, the required agreements and regulations contemplated under parts 1 and 2 of Bill C-69. They provide specific factors where federal impact assessment must be triggered for any project that is on, or partly on, their territory. That's in the treaty. Treaty members must be appointed to all federal and provincial assessment and review processes as per the treaty, and it must be led by the environmental and social impact review committee under the treaty. Any modifications to the provisions of the treaty must have the consent of the signatories.I don't think I need to read it into the record, unless you'd like me to do so.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English] The proposal has been circulated. Essentially, they are asking for a new section, proposed section 4.1:The following physical activities carried out partly or completely on the territory of the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement that have effects within federal jurisdiction are deemed to be designated projects: Then they give details thereunder.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]Could I ask for a further clarification? Then why is only one treaty excluded? Why is it only the Mackenzie basin agreement? Surely they would be covered by that as well. Why did the government decide to include only one modern treaty?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]Are you speaking of substitution or are you speaking of a joint review? What are you really saying would happen?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1605)[English]Through proposed section 4....ChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]Unfortunately, nobody, including the James Bay Cree, knows what is on schedule 2. Are you saying here today that you're willing to put the James Bay Cree agreement on schedule 2?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]Well, I don't think so.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]I said yes, because I have no assurance that it will be on schedule 2, and neither have the Cree.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]Madam Chair, the first part deals with line 7 on page 9, and it is changing “to foster sustainability” to “to ensure sustainability”. I don't know whether you want to vote on these as we go along or as a package.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]This is also adding to line 9 the word “cultural” again. Then it is replacing lines 7 and 8 on page 10—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]I'm looking at amendment NDP-18.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]What I did was add from the floor. I can take out the added part, if you want to put it later.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]I added that additional amendment from the floor. It's not written into the amendment.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]Okay, I'm sorry.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]I was adding to line 9 the word “culture”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]It's between “social” and “and”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]That's correct.The Chair: That is in proposed paragraph 6(1)(b). C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanLindaDuncanEdmonton Strathcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]Yes. Then paragraph (b) in my amendment is replacing lines 7 and 8 on page 10 with the following: “(j) to ensure that an impact assessment is based on sound science and takes into account...”. Here, I am changing the wording, and I will tell you why I am changing it. I will read this one from the floor as well. I'll say it slowly so that we get the interpretation for our francophone friends. These lines will read, “to ensure that an impact assessment is based on sound science and takes into account the best technologies available to reduce environmental impacts...”. The reason I am using those specific words is that I am taking them straight out of the Prime Minister's mandate letters to the Minister of Natural Resources and the Minister of Environment and Climate Change. Those two letters mandate that the two ministers must “ensure that decisions are based on science, facts, and evidence and serve the public's interest”—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsLindaDuncanEdmonton StrathconaDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English] I'm reiterating what the mandate letters say.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English] You don't have them in front of you, but I'm reading this slowly.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]The mandate letter to the Minister of Natural Resources states that he will:ensure that decisions are based on science, facts, and evidence, and serve the public's interest; [and] require project proponents to choose the best technologies available to reduce environmental impacts.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1610)[English]I'm not. I'm just telling you why this is being submitted.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1615)[English]I could provide this to the analysts.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1615)[English]My paragraph (c) would propose three additional paragraphs after line 27 on page 10:(o) to contribute to achieving and maintaining a healthy and stable climate for future generations;(p) to ensure environmental justice by ensuring that designated projects do not have a disproportionate negative impact on Indigenous peoples or on other groups distinguished on the basis of grounds including race, colour, national origin or income; and(q) to ensure adherence to or compliance with related regional agreements and international obligations and commitments.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1615)[English]Yes.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1615)[English]It was, yes.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1615)[English]I seem to be the only one for whom the drafter preferred to put everything together, so I apologize, but that's the way they were drafted.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1615)[English]I'd prefer that they be voted on separately.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1615)[English]It goes on: the best technologies available to reduce environmental impacts—specifically from the mandate letters.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1615)[English] And a period, yes.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]Does mine go before PV-11?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English] Okay. The first part of that is line 33 on page 9, and again would add in the reference after “Constitution Act, 1982,” to “the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, adopted on September 13, 2007”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]Do you want to discuss and vote or do you want to go through them all and then—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]No, I know—The Chair: —and it was suggested that we don't.Ms. Linda Duncan: —but do you want to just vote?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]We're just voting on each one as we go through.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]Madam Chair, I just want to say that as before, I abstained because it doesn't seem to comply with what the indigenous witnesses called for, but I haven't had a chance to follow up with them.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]It's on page 10, at line 12. Right now, the provision simply speaks to taking “into account alternative means of carrying out” the “designated project”, and my amendment would add in “alternative means of serving an identified need or carrying out” the “designated project”.The reason I say this is that my experience before tribunals is.... Let me use as an example the review of the Site C dam. Many people felt that it was giving short shrift to evidence that was given showing that the needed electricity of the future could be equally served by geothermal and solar through a private proponent and an indigenous proponent. That was not given serious weight. Of course, those kinds of hearings in the future presumably would be joint federal-provincial ones, and I think it's very important that there be consideration of alternative ways of meeting the need, in terms of why they're saying they need to have the project approved. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]Again, this is on page 10. It's replacing lines 16 to 20. It's making sure that projects, as defined in section 81:“or other activities”This is the important point, the activities—“carried out in accordance with this Act, that are to be carried out on federal or Indigenous lands”—of course that was ruled out—“or that may impact Indigenous rights and that may be subject to a federal authority or financially supported by a federal authority, are carried out in a manner that avoids significant adverse effects;” It expands proposed paragraph (l). There were great concerns submitted by a lot of witnesses that this bill is going to severely reduce what matters will be reviewed federally and is limited only to projects likely on the project list. They are saying that we need to have “other activities”, such as consideration of whether to approve the Olympics in Banff National Park. It is not necessarily a physical project but an approval that may impact an area subject to federal jurisdiction responsibility. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English]I'm deeply concerned, as a former environmental enforcer, with the language in (n), on page 10, line 27. It says: to encourage improvements to impact assessments through the use of follow-up programs.I don't know what that is. I don't know if that's ever stated in law or anywhere else. My proposal is to say:through the exercise of federal regulatory and enforcement powers and the use of follow-up programs.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English]Does that exist in law anywhere?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English]Is it not an important addition to this law, which was one of the things the government said they would include, to start having enforceability of conditions? I don't consider that a follow-up program is ensuring compliance of the conditions that are imposed. A follow-up program does not cover the rest of the provisions of the bill. There might be regulatory measures and enforcement measures. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsBrentParkerBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English]Again, this is the beginning part of the bill that talks about the purposes. It would be my understanding that one of the purposes of this bill is that in order to ensure compliance and adherence to the conditions, we will now have provisions to do with enforcement. We will exercise federal regulatory enforcement powers. You can decide not to support it, but it's part of the bill that's been added in that wasn't there before.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsBrentParkerDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1640)[English]I rest my case. Part of doing the environmental impact assessment process is to identify where there may be significant impacts. Then there will be conditions attached, and some of those conditions will require that federal authorities exercise their regulatory powers. There's a whole part of this act as well called “Administration and Enforcement”, sections 120 to 151, and I just simply thought that it's part of the act that should be referenced. If we don't want to talk about the regulation and enforcement, so be it.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1645)[English]I want to speak to that.ElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1645)[English]I'm so glad that Ms. May has tabled this, because if she hadn't, I was going to table a slightly different version. We have received briefs from a number of scientists in Canada—unfortunately, after we had to submit amendments—who are deeply concerned that there's a lack in terms of reflecting scientific integrity in this bill. There are a lot of concerns with the way impact assessments have been proceeding, and that's what's causing a lot of people to get arrested.Professor Olszynski has pointed out to me why he has used the wording he has. I thought it was a bit extreme, but it's very important that we know why he has put this in. We actually signed the North American Agreement on Environmental Cooperation. It's a sidebar agreement to NAFTA. In that agreement, we agree to co-operate and to work with our partners, the United States and Mexico, to have harmonized policies. The United States passed these rules some time ago. The Council on Environmental Quality regulations of 1978—a long time ago—for the National Environmental Policy Act required that federal agencies ensure “the professional integrity, including scientific integrity, of the discussions and analyses in environmental impact statements”. I can give this information to the analysts.Also, the U.S. Geological Survey Manual, in chapter 500.25, titled “Scientific Integrity”, at paragraph 7 requires United States government employees to “communicate the results of” their “scientific activities...honestly, objectively, thoroughly” and expeditiously.This is common language for our trading partner to the south, so I think it's a very sensible recommendation to be included in the bill. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]I think only one part of it.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]I still disagree with why they would argue that. I mean, I lost that one, and therefore that wasn't changed, and therefore this should be valid.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]There is no change, and therefore I should be able to propose this alternative.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]If you had accepted that amendment, it might have made a difference, but you did not accept the amendment.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]This is a provision related to the transportation of dangerous goods, which I've also already tabled in the House. It is a matter of great consternation to a lot of the Canadian public that, under the existing provision in law, even though the minister has long had the power for discretion to call an assessment where there is public concern, or where information comes to her attention that there may be significant adverse effects, she has never used the power. The recommendation is to make that mandatory. I see no logical argument for where information has been brought to the attention of the minister that the project may cause significant adverse effects that she does not have to call a review.If that's not the case, it basically makes this bill the “let's not have federal assessment” bill, because every other provision simply gives them the discretion. If an authority has decided that we don't need to have an assessment, well, there can't be an assessment. If they want to have somebody else do the assessment, we won't do a federal assessment. This is the only occasion where we will know for sure that there will actually be a federal assessment: because the minister has been apprised of the fact that there may be significant effects from the project. I find it very hard to find any logical reason not to say it in that way.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]I can speak to them all together, if you like.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1650)[English]I'm looking at the opposite. Sorry. Oh, I'm already tired, and we've only been here one hour.Let's just deal with this one.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1655)[English]There is no point in moving NDP-20(b) and NDP-20(c) because they're related, too.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1655)[English]Yes.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1655)[English]Well, it's the same again. Page 13, line 5—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1655)[English]I am again adding in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples as a factor that she must take into account. It seems logical.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1655)[English]Sure.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1655)[English] This would add a line after line 34. It's adding a proposed subsection 9(9) to say, “The Minister may designate a physical activity where a federal authority is required to make a determination under sections 82, 83 or 84.” That's making up for the fact that we don't have the law list anymore. It empowers the minister to designate a physical activity for impact assessment where the project is on federal land or federally financed. Currently where the projects are on federal lands, the federal agency has been sidestepping impact assessment, and I'm advised, from a CPAWS study done on decisions between 2012 and 2018, that 500 determinations were issued refusing to do an assessment, even an initial assessment.I note that the minister made a commitment yesterday to maintaining integrity in the national parks and to ensuring that all impacts on our national parks, and presumably world heritage sites, will now be included. That means we need to put through this amendment, because we have to include things like the Olympics, with which there is some kind of an activity for which federal authority might be required.The second aspect is that right now that provision, I believe, says that the agency can make that decision. I think the minister should be making that decision, not the agency.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1655)[English]I am deeply concerned, as are probably the vast majority of witnesses we heard from as well as the more than 150 who submitted briefs, that public participation rates are given short shrift in this bill. It just isn't adequate to say that the public has a right to participate.I looked at other federal legislation. I looked at the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, which our committee looked at previously, and, lo and behold, there's a whole section right at the beginning with the heading “ Public Participation”. That act lists all the rights and opportunities of the public to participate, and the duties of the government to deliver those rights.This bill as it stands right now is completely user-unfriendly to the ordinary person trying to determine their rights and opportunities to participate in these processes, to trigger a review, to gain access to information, to be able to present evidence, or to be able to cross-examine. Therefore, I have suggested that all the rights and opportunities listed throughout the act be moved forward to a proposed new section 9.1 under the heading “Public Participation”, and that is what I have listed in here.I tried to be all-encompassing. I've tried to list right upfront everything from participating in the planning stage to being able to be consulted on development or the amending of schedule 3, to requests made by the agency for additional information that get notice, decisions as to whether an impact assessment is required or directing the agency not to conduct an impact assessment, to decisions by the minister, decisions made by the agency to conduct an impact assessment, decisions made by the minister not to conduct an impact assessment, the right to receive notice of a determination by the minister, and so on and so forth.I've done my best to go through and, anywhere that a public right has been extended, to move that up front in the bill so that it becomes more user-friendly to the public.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1700)[English]The whole purpose is that it's a bundle. They're not new rights. They're rights that are buried in the act.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]This is on page 14, replacing lines 8 to 11 to be more specific:The Agency must ensure the public is provided with opportunities to participate meaningfullyMy understanding is we all agree with that:in its preparations for a possible impact assessment of a designated project, or an assessment under section 92, 93 or 95That includes impact assessments, regional assessments, and strategic assessments:including by inviting the public to provide comments within the period that it specifies and in accordance with the regulations.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanLindaDuncanEdmonton Strathcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan(1705)[English]We don't know what this planning phase will apply to. If it's sensible, it makes sense to apply that to decisions on whether we need a regional assessment or a strategic assessment. I think it's important that those be referenced right up front.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsLindaDuncanEdmonton StrathconaDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1705)[English]Madam Chair, isn't this the same as the ones I put forward from the FCM that were voted down? C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]I want some more discussion on this first.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]I want to know why we're removing the power of the minister to issue an order.My second question would be under LIB-13. Who's issuing these tailored guidelines? Nobody is empowered to issue these tailored guidelines. You talk about including tailored guidelines, but nobody has the power to issue these tailored guidelines.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]There's a difference between guidelines and regulations. You're saying that you're going to have a regulation that will issue guidelines.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsBrentParkerBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]This is not clear to me. You're going to issue guidelines by regulation.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsBrentParkerChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English] Those are mandatory. They're not guidelines.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]Either they're regulations or they're guidelines. I don't know what a tailored guideline is. I think it's just really strange drafting.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1720)[English]Are you saying you would make the guidelines mandatory?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1725)[English]You also mentioned LIB-13. Does that mean LIB-13 is also adopted?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1730)[English]I have completely opposite issues.I'm concerned, Ms. May, that you are watering down those obligations. Right now it says, “must take into account”, and all of our witnesses were saying please replace “by considering” with “take into account”. I'm puzzled why you'd take that out.Also, it already references matters within federal jurisdiction. You have listed some of those, but there may well be matters under federal jurisdiction that are not included in that list, and so it may be less of a responsibility than as it stands now.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1730)[English]So, you're making what is currently subsection (2) into subsection (2.1)?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1730)[English]I would like an interpretation by our officials. ElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1730)[English]No, I need an interpretation, because the rules of interpretation are that if you start specifying, then it excludes the others. The way it's drafted is a little odd. I just want to have certainty in the way it's drafted, because it starts out by saying—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1730)[English]—“matters of federal interest”, and then it starts listing specifics. I would like to know, in the rules of interpretation, by giving those specifics, if it takes away anything that might not be listed. That's my concern.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1730)[English]Those are legislative interpretation rules. I just need to be clear.ChristineLoth-BownJean-SébastienRochon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1730)[English]It's a rule of interpretation.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJean-SébastienRochon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]I'm not sure you're adding in the list. It's all under paragraph 16(2)(b) anyway.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJean-SébastienRochonJean-SébastienRochon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1745)[English]Absolutely.ElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1745)[English]The amendment that I'm putting forward to Ms. May is, instead of saying “by considering”, to say “taking into account”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1745)[English]It doesn't have to be friendly—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf IslandsElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1745)[English]It would say instead, in subsection (2), “In making its decision, the agency must determine whether the designated project is clearly linked to matters of federal interest”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1745)[English]Yes, it would say, “The agency must take into account whether the designated project is clearly linked to matters of federal interest”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1745)[English]It's quite a change from the way it's drafted right now. I'm trying to make sense of that.It should say, “In making its decision, the agency must take into account whether the designated project is clearly linked to matters of federal interest”, rather than “determine”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1750)[English]Guess where we are again.This is line 9 on page 16. That is the provision where we're talking about the factors that the agency must take into account. Paragraph (c) talks about adverse impacts on the rights of indigenous peoples under section 35 of the Constitution, and I am adding in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which seems logical.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1750)[English]I have a question.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1750)[English]Well, before you call the vote—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1750)[English]We don't need the answer now—EdFastHon.AbbotsfordMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1750)[English]—but I have a question that the legal people might want to take away for furthering the bill.MikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1750)[English]If you call for comments first, that would be helpful, instead of calling the vote.I want to thank you, Churence, for this amendment because it raises this issue.My concern is that the bill as written simply says “comments received from the public”. This is a question that has arisen to me in this bill. Who is the public? There are a lot of places in this bill where we talk about the public, but we're assuming that it includes indigenous people.If you specify this here, I'd just like to give a red flag that we need to be careful throughout the bill where we need to specify indigenous people. Are they public?You, obviously, had picked up on this.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—Trinity//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1750)[English] I'm agreeing with you. I'm not disagreeing, but you are qualifying, okay? You're saying that it's more than public, so.... I think it's something that we need to be careful with throughout the bill.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChurenceRogersBonavista—Burin—TrinityDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1805)[English]I think it's a good amendment but it needs something added. To make it consistent with the rewriting of that provision by the Liberals, it should read, under proposed subsection 16(2.1), “For the purposes of subsection (1), a project involving any of the following decisions requires an assessment prior to” . Under the existing act, if any of those authorities have already made the decision, it precludes an assessment. The important thing in here is to say, in these circumstances, before they make these decisions, there must be an assessment.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1805)[English]I'm adding the words “prior to” after the words “an assessment”. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1805)[English]I just read it, “For the purposes of subsection (1), a project involving any of the following decisions requires an assessment prior to”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1810)[English]I don't see any problem with it. Proposed subsection 16(1) says: After posting a copy of the notice on the Internet site under subsection15(3), the Agency must, subject to section 17, decide whether an impact assessment of the designated project is required. This part says that your decision will be thus and so. It limits the exercise of that discretion.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1810)[English]By their amendment, it is already excluded, because the law already says that if they've made those decisions, the minister cannot order an assessment, and neither can the agency.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1810)[English]This is where the agency has already decided that there will be an impact assessment, and then this is deciding what will be in the terms of reference.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1810)[English]In the actual assessment. Okay.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1810)[English]Thank God. The bill wasn't obvious there.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1815)[English]Sorry about this. I'm trying to remember if at all in this bill the agency is actually authorized to request additional information, because these provisions simply talked about extending time, but they don't deal with the power of the agency to actually require additional information.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1815)[English]Can they only ask for additional studies if they extend the time limit? Surely, that's not what—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]It might limit the power elsewhere in the bill. That's why I'm asking.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]I think the bill gives the agency and the minister the power to ask for more information. I'm curious about where that is, because this may limit that power. It would be conditional only if the agency extends the time limit.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]That doesn't answer my question.Where in this bill is the agency empowered generally to ask for additional information at any point in the review?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]Okay, but subsection 26(2)....ChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]There's my question. If we don't remove subsection 26(2), does that limit it and say that they can't ask for additional information unless they've extended the time period for the review?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]I don't disagree with that. I just think it limits. So, if you want to stand by, it....C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]But you could object and say that you can only do this if the timeline is extended.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]I have an amendment to make now.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]It is to amend Mr. Fisher's amendment.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]I like what you're saying, “Agency or a review panel”. I'm also proposing that. That's good, but can you please add to line 19 on page 19, in (a), “the direct or incidental changes to the environment”?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]It could be “direct and incidental” or “direct or incidental”, but “direct or” probably.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]I'm in (b), line 19, page 19, under (a). The amendment says, “changes to the environment”, and I am requesting that you add at the front end of that, “the direct or incidental changes to the environment”. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]Yes.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]I have a question on your last one, where you add (f), or where you're saying “any alternatives to the designated project”, etc. My concern is the issue that I raised before. You are then excluding alternatives that could deliver the need but not necessarily related to the proposal. Let's say somebody proposes a dam to provide so many megawatts or gigawatts of power. When you say, “are directly related to the designated project”, I'm not sure if that's preventing that. I'm not sure that you need those words. I think you are going to really limit any consideration of alternatives.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]What do you mean by the words “directly related to the designated project”?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]I don't oppose that. It's the last line, “directly related to the designated project”, that limits the consideration of alternatives. Is that what he wants to do?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]Yes, the last line, “and are directly related to the designated project”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]Why isn't NDP-27— An hon. member: There was a line conflict.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]All of it?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]What about lines 7 to 10? That's not covered.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]So are you not going to consider that? I just need to know one way or the other.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]That's what I just asked for, but doesn't it go before PV-25?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]She didn't allow me to speak to whether it should be a [Inaudible—Editor] conflict.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]That's exactly when I said it [Inaudible—Editor] rule on that—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1830)[English]Whatever. They're going to vote it down anyway. It's a farce.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1835)[English] Okay, I will move it from the floor, but you have it in front of you, so you can read it.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1835)[English]Lines 7 to 10 on page 20 are to be replaced with “the extent to which the life cycle and lifespan—”C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1835)[English]I just wanted to echo what Ms. May said. Isn't that supposed to be the whole point of this act? It's supposed to be based on sustainability, which has 17 factors.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1840)[English]I like the redrafting, particularly because it is saying obligations and commitments in respect of environment, climate change, and biodiversity, because there are obligations and commitments to all of those. Sometimes it's a regional agreement. Sometimes it's a commitment like in the NAFTA side agreement.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1840)[English]No, I'm not changing it. Before it just said “environmental obligations” and then “commitments on climate change”. It should say “obligations and commitments” to both, to all of those. That's what she did.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1840)[English]Which one are you taking out?DarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1840)[English]You took out (g). You are taking out a lot of them. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1845)[English]What is (g), traditional knowledge?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1845)[English]What are you trying to say there?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1845)[English]Paragraph (g) is traditional knowledge. Are you excluding that?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1845)[English]There are lots of other ones you can't scope too: 22(1)(p), 22(1)(q).A voice: Yes.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1845)[English]I have a question. DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1845)[English]Okay, I'm raising a serious question.Is the government saying that a panel will never have any role in scoping? C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1845)[English]No, on anything. This gets only the agency and the minister to the scoping. I've never heard of a review where the panel is not authorized to sit down with all the parties and scope the terms of reference for the review. My understanding is that the panel essentially has almost no role under this bill.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1845)[English]I haven't had my question answered. There is nothing in this bill that gives the panel any authorization to scope the review. So is the decision that the panel will have no role in working with all of the participants in helping to scope the review? I'm puzzled that we don't have (a), (b), and (c).C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1845)[English]This isn't a move to panel. It's scoping the factors.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1850)[English]I was asking you where in this bill it gives a power to the panel to further scope the review. I don't see a provision anywhere here.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1850)[English] Well, that's just appointments to the panel.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsChristineLoth-BownDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1850)[English]Section 51 does not give any power to scope.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1850)[English]I am choosing not to do NDP-28. I prefer to do NDP-29, if that's all right.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1850)[English]This is after line 14 on page 21. There's a big gap after line 14. It's before “Impact Assessment by Agency”. What I'm adding in is a (d), and that would be:(d) a member of the public or any Indigenous group that may be affected by the carrying out of a designated project and that is participating in the assessment or consultation relating to the designated project.This has to do with having to make information available. Right now there's only an obligation to give that information to the agency, the review panel, and the government but nobody else who is participating in this review. This was specifically raised by Nature Canada and the Mikisew Cree. It's critical that the information be made available and disclosed to all parties affected and participating in the review, and that would include any public intervenors and indigenous peoples.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1855)[English]We're on line 6 at page 22. We're moving forward here. Line 6 has to do with public participation.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1855)[English]It's after line 6.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1855)[English]I'm simply adding in those words.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1855)[English]It's replacing that line.EdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1855)[English]We're all getting tired, including me.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1855)[English]They could want Fisheries and Oceans, for instance, to give them information, so it's “or federal authority to collect that information”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1900)[English]This is one that everybody should like.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1900)[English]I've heard how popular it is. We're at line 8 on page 22. It would read, “The Agency must ensure that the public is provided with an opportunity for meaningful participation in the impact assessment”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1105)[English]I have a question. I'm noticing that we're still receiving amendments drafted on May 4. The deadline to submit them was April 30, so I wonder why we are still receiving some dated May 4. The members can say them from the floor, but if the cut-off was a cut-off....C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]My question is simple: was the deadline April 29, or not?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]If any amendments were submitted after that, people are free to place them on the floor. I just don't understand why some were allowed after that date. We did not submit any more because you said that was the firm date. Any that were submitted after that should be submitted from the floor, not as though they were submitted on time.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]It's just in fairness to everyone.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanElizabethMaySaanich—Gulf Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]It's just a question of fairness.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]When there's a deadline, there's a deadline, and then there are exceptions for some. I just think we need to stop doing that, because we could have easily submitted more after the date. I don't want to be unfair to Ms. May. There's no reason one of us can't bring it forward on the floor. That's all I'm suggesting. We can always bring them forward on the floor.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]I just wish we'd stop changing the rules after we agreed to what they are, so that everybody is treated the same. That's all.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]It was a drafting error. It wasn't our—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]Could I ask a question?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]Those amendments go to the preamble. I was advised when I inquired that the preamble is reviewed at the end, not the beginning. I'm happy to do it now, if we change what we're doing, but I was advised that the preamble is discussed at the end of the bill. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]Yes, I know. DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]Correct, and I've always been told at committee that the preamble gets discussed at the end to see if you need to make any changes after having made changes within the bill. I'm happy to discuss it if we've changed how we're doing this, but just for clarification....C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]That's fine.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]Okay, great.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]Our first amendment is a simple one, and it is to clause 1, which is the preamble to part 1 of the bill. I want to change it to “ensuring”. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English] “Ensuring” is the new word. I think it says “promoting”.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanEdFastHon.Abbotsford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]“Fostering sustainability”. Thank you very much.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]There were a number of people who recommended that. The reason they thought it was important is that Canada has signed on to the 2030 sustainable development goals. Canada is committed to ensuring sustainability, so it was recommended that should say that it will “ensure sustainability”. In the way this act is put together, when we do the impact assessment, it will ensure sustainability.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1110)[English]This would add not just impact assessments but also “regional and strategic assessments”. A number of witnesses and briefs felt that it was important to be clear right at the start and to reference in the preamble all of the aspects of impact assessment within the bill. It's not just the impact assessment process; it's also for regional and strategic assessments. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]The drafters initially put it all together, but in fact I wanted to bring them in one by one because there may be agreement on one part and not another. You should have received that, but maybe you don't have the updated files. I appreciate the clarification. It is paragraph (b) in the consolidated version that you have. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]I have a comment on it.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]That may cause a problem when we get to the part of the bill where traditional knowledge can be deemed confidential. I'm not sure you want to say all indigenous knowledge can be deemed confidential. Unless you talk about traditional knowledge somewhere in the text, that provision won't make sense.I'm wondering how you're going to resolve that because I know the access to the traditional knowledge is the point of contention by a good number of first nations and other indigenous communities. I haven't heard that they have the same issue with all of the knowledge they may carry.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]But you're not answering my question. If you change it to “Indigenous knowledge” everywhere, how are you resolving that provision that deals with confidentiality of traditional knowledge if we never reference traditional knowledge in the bill?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1120)[English]I'm going to have to reserve my vote because I need to know what the implications are of that provision.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1125)[English]I have two things. I'm wondering if it makes sense, because then you're saying, “and the Indigenous knowledge of the Indigenous peoples”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1125)[English]Okay. My second point is that I heard the that recommendation was not just for this provision, but throughout the bill, and I have a problem with this throughout the bill. What are we voting on?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1125)[English]Are we in 1.2 or 1.3?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1125)[English]I submitted them all separately. If you want me to go back to the consolidated one, I'll go back, because I can't follow you.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1125)[English]The 1(c) is the 1.3. It is the view of a number of witnesses that the second paragraph of the preamble was limiting. At the end it says: ...and the [now indigenous] knowledge of the Indigenous peoples of Canada into decision-making processes related to designated projects.We would like to take out the latter words, “related to designated projects”, and leave “decision-making processes” as is. Again, that is because this bill also deals with strategic and regional assessments, which don't necessarily deal with designated projects.It should say that the Government of Canada recognizes that impact assessments provide an effective means of integrating scientific and indigenous knowledge into all processes for impact assessment, not just the review of designated projects. The intent is to remove those last four words, “related to designated projects”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1125)[English]It does. It ends at “decision-making processes”. That's exactly what the amendment says.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]And my amendment stops it at “decision-making processes”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]Yes.This amends....DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]It's the third paragraph of the preamble to part 1 of the impact assessment act, and the recommendation from a number of those who testified and submitted briefs was to add the word “value”. In other words, it would say:Whereas the Government of Canada recognizes the value and importance of meaningful public participation at all stages of impact, regional or strategic assessmentsThe problem with the way it's drafted right now is that, by the interpretation rules, if you specify one, you're excluding the rest. It says, “including the planning phase”. Our preference is that it say:the value and importance of meaningful public participation at all stages of impact, regional or strategic assessmentsC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]The second part says:Whereas the Government of Canada is committed to providing Canadians with the opportunity and means to participate in impact, regional, and strategic assessments, and with full and timely access to Then it goes into the information.Those are the two changes to that: adding in “value” of public participation; taking out the specific reference just to the planning stage, and saying that it would be to all stages of impact, regional, and strategic assessments; and that it would provide the opportunity and means to participate in the impact, regional, and strategic assessments and with the full and timely access to information that they need.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English] I'm looking at what the drafter did, and she divided that into two, and that was the wisdom of our official drafters.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]This next one goes to the issue. It's deals with the fourth paragraph of the preamble, and would replace what is said there with the following: Whereas the Government of Canada recognizes the need for transparent and accountable decision-making in relation to impact, regional and strategic assessments;C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]They are lines 25 to 28.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]Are you moving me to NDP-2?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]Okay.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]Let's go back, then. They are lines 19 to 20?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]That recommendation, again, makes clear that public participation is important at all stages of the impact assessment process.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English] Okay. That replaces lines 25 to 28, and we would instead put:Whereas the Government of Canada recognizes the need for transparent and accountable decision-making in relation to impact, regional and strategic assessments;That reflects the mandate letters issued by the Prime Minister to all of the ministers, including the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, the Minister of Natural Resources, the Minister of Transport, etc.It states clearly the need for transparency and accountability in decision-making and applies to all aspects of impact assessment under the bill.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]Thank you.If we're going to carry forward from Ms. May, are we also going to carry forward all the amendments that I put forward and the Liberals put forward that say close to the identical thing? It would make sense, if we're going to be efficient, because it's also in my first amendment.If Ms. May would accept it, I would like to amend her amendment to specify “adopted on September 13, 2007”, so that we are specific about which United Nations declaration it is. When it has been cited, normally that information is also given. That would be my first recommendation.We also heard from a number of indigenous representatives—from the Métis, the Inuit, and first nations—all of whom called for this. We have also received, even past the date of the amendment, many briefs from indigenous governments, organizations, and entities calling for this amendment.It's also important to keep in mind that at the Assembly of First Nations meeting in November of last year, the justice minister committed that, going forward, all federal laws would reflect or incorporate the UNDRIP. Regrettably, it wasn't in the sustainable development act. That amendment wasn't accepted by this committee, even though I suggested it. I would be deeply encouraged if we did finally do that. Recently, we even have Bob Rae, former leader of the both the NDP and Liberals, who has stated in the Law Times: It's a little strange to me that the federal government would announce with...great...fanfare that it's adopting the UN declaration as its benchmark and not put it into the major piece of environment impact legislation. I find it, frankly, quite strange...This certainly doesn't clarify what indigenous people have been saying for some time is reflecting their concerns about the nature of development.Finally, in response to Mr. Fast's comments, heavens, we have a lot of litigation over what the Constitution says, including section 35. I don't think that's a valid argument for us not to reflect the UNDRIP in this bill. Simply by incorporating it, it would say that all of the provisions of the UNDRIP would be arguable, in the same way that it's arguable that this is how you interpret section 35 of the Constitution.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]It includes the date?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]I don't know if we'll even accept the definition. If I have comfort that the Liberals will accept the definition, then I'm okay with not having an amendment.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]But we have not also included all the NDP and Liberal changes, and they could be in different parts of the act.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]I'm going to have to sit down and go through all of them. They're all throughout the whole— DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]Can I ask a question, Madam Chair, just for a level of comfort?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]The definitions occur after the preamble. Do the definitions apply, then, to the preamble?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]Well, no, I want the opinion of the legal....DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]Do the definitions go backwards in the bill?A voice: In part 1.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]So in part 1, any definitions that occur after the preamble also apply to the preamble of the bill?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]So the definition of UNDRIP, even though it's not stated....I just want to make sure we're doing it according to Hoyle. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]No, I think the....DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]No, the drafters are the ones who will know that.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]We do? Okay.Do you agree with that?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJean-SébastienRochon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]We're only voting [Inaudible—Editor]Ms. Elizabeth May: Just mine.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]Does that mean [Inaudible—Editor] missing?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]I don't know if any are missing. It's hard to....DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]I'd like to make a suggestion. The Chair: I—Ms. Linda Duncan: No, seriously, okay? If we can delay the vote on this one—The Chair: No.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]Guess what? It's that line 35 of the preamble be amended and replaced with the following:tion Act, 1982, and by the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, adopted on September 13, 2007, and to fostering reconciliation andC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]Mine is slightly different.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]“and to fostering reconciliation” has been added. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]Yes, that's on line 38 of page 2, and it changes “the importance of cooperating with jurisdictions” to “the importance of cooperating and coordinating with jurisdictions”. I recall that in the text of the bill, they reflect both of those, so I think it's important in the preamble to say that. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]We are now on page 3, replacing lines 1 to 11 as follows.... Again, this is consistent with what intervenors have called for. It would expand the subject matter to include impact assessments and regional and strategic assessments. For the second “Whereas”, which starts at line 8, the amendment replaces it with the following: Whereas the Government of Canada recognizes that impact, regional and strategic assessments contribute to Canada's ability to meet its international commitments in respect of the environment and climate change;Again, it is making the point of covering all three types of impact assessment in the act. The act is very specific. It talks about impact assessment. It talks about regional assessment, and separately it talks about strategic assessment. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]Yes. It relates to lines 14 and 15 on page 3. Currently, the preamble only speaks of the importance of encouraging innovative approaches and technologies to reduce adverse changes. This one would change it to “and technologies to avoid and ameliorate adverse changes to the environment”, and it also adds in “cultural conditions”, which was a strong recommendation by many witnesses and in many briefs.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]We're already on NDP-4?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]If it's adopted.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]Yes, I don't know why the drafter drafted it the way she did for me and not for others, but that's what she did. She was being efficient.This is on lines 8 to 12 on page 4. It's intended to expand what is considered to be a designated project. Right now, those are carried out in Canada on federal lands and designated by regs. That's by the cabinet or by the minister. We include section 112 in the amendment because the minister can also make regulations, and for some reason, that is not mentioned. So we're adding in not just paragraph 109(b), which is cabinet power, but also section 112, which is the ministerial regulation-making power. Added to that, we have:(c) may have effects on(i) the outstanding universal value of a World Heritage site found on the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization World Heritage List,(ii) one or more species at risk, as defined in subsection 2(1) of the Species at Risk Act, or on their habitat,and(iii) migratory birds, as defined in subsection 2(1) of the Migratory Birds Convention Act, 1994, or(iv) transboundary waters on a transboundary airshed; or(d) may have significant adverse effects on any Indigenous group or the rights of the Indigenous peoples of Canada recognized and affirmed by section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982I am adding in here, “and as enshrined in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.”The strong feeling, particularly as put forward by indigenous witnesses, was that the definition of “designated project” is too narrow. This adds a lot of jurisdictional law-making powers for legislation that has already been enacted that would consider it to be a designated project.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1210)[English]It includes the impacts on indigenous peoples.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1210)[English]I would like to respond.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1210)[English]It could be seen as going backwards or it could be seen as going forward.The government has committed to restoring public faith in the impact assessment process. Before the Harper government's evisceration of the federal assessment law, these triggers used to exist. Any matter that was under federal jurisdiction, in fact, would trigger a review.What is happening is that under this bill, with its very narrow definition of designated project, unless the minister and cabinet decide to list a specific project, it's not going to be covered by the bill. There is very, very deep public concern. One of the criteria included here, the one dealing with world heritage sites, was included specifically because of the Mikisew Cree and their experience with the federal government refusing their continuous requests for a federal assessment of the impacts of both the Site C dam and oil sands operations on Wood Buffalo National Park, a world heritage site. Without these additions, they have no faith that a federal assessment will ever be triggered. That is why they have specifically requested that these provisions be added.There's also the concern that proposals for impact assessments of national parks are continually rejected. There are apparently 500 examples of that happening. So there is strong support for expanding these criteria.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]This involves page 4, lines 9 and 10. It deleted from (b), under “designated project”, the phrase “or designated in an order made by the Minister under subsection 9(1)”.I don't know why, but that's the proposal.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]How does that apply to NDP-20?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]It only references proposed section 9. I don't see why that would remove NDP-20.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]Let's deal with it when we get to it, but I see absolutely no rationale for that at all.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]I disagree. It's a completely different issue. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]In proposed section 9.... Was that on page 12?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanLindaDuncanEdmonton Strathcona//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Yes, page 12.LindaDuncanEdmonton StrathconaDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Because we are changing what proposed subsection 9(1) says. So I've lost this one. My change to proposed subsection to 9(1) stands. It didn't pass, anyway, so the recommended change I have—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Well, come on. The Liberals are going to vote down every amendment of mine. You know it will happen.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]It is consistent. My amendment NDP-20 completely changes that section. It has no relation.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]If it passed....C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]I'm assuming it won't pass.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]No, because my wording for a new section 9 doesn't even talk about “designate”, so there is no conflict.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]I beg to differ. When you look at my NDP-20—OlivierChampagneMr.OlivierChampagneMr.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]That's correct. In my new section 9, there is no mention of the word “designate”. Exactly.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsOlivierChampagneMr.DeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]I beg to differ. If you look at my NDP-20, frankly, it's 100% consistent with the bill I already have, which was tabled in the House. It doesn't even mention the word “designate”, so there is no contradiction in it.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsOlivierChampagneMr.DeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]I don't even know why I bother. The recommendation is to replace line 16 on page 4 to add in “regardless of whether the effects are within the control of a proponent, that would permit the carrying out, in whole or”, and then it says “in part”. That clarifies the best practice that all potential effects of a project are assessed, whether or not the proponent directly controls them. There are a good number of legal organizations that have proposed this, including Ecojustice, Nature Canada, and West Coast Environmental Law. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English] If you go to page 4, lines 23 to 24 of the bill, there is the definition of "effects". The first thing the amendment does is to add the word “cultural”. We have had as recently as today a comment, in addition to all the recommendations by many of the witnesses and in many of the briefs, including indigenous ones, that cultural heritage should be included. After all, it is part of the SDG, according to Julie Abouchar, Toronto partner of Willms & Shier Environmental Lawyers. She says that cultural heritage needs to be considered when companies conduct environmental assessments. That includes the elders through interviews, incorporating oral histories and getting traditional knowledge from the people impacted by the project, including their feelings of the land. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]I'm not sure how this meshes with other parts of the bill where we talk about adverse impacts. I find it unnecessary. I've never participated in a tribunal review where the proponent didn't spend most of the time talking about the economic benefits of the project. I think it probably conflicts with other parts of the bill that simply talk about adverse impacts.Does this mean that we're going to remove the phrase “adverse impacts” everywhere in the bill it's stated? If so, I would find that unfortunate. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English]There were very strong concerns by witnesses and in briefs that this bill doesn't move us forward from the Harper assessment bill. Simply, it's a selective listing of effects, and there are many that are missing. The recommendation is that it would include physical activities and designated projects, but it would also include physical activities “related to a decision by a federal authority”, or that could “occur in a province other than the one where the physical activity or designated”—in order words, transboundary—or “occur in a situation where there is related financing by a federal authority, or occur in a situation that is subject to federal legislative jurisdiction”. That's very important, because it's missing. And again, “affect the Indigenous peoples of Canada, including their rights as enshrined under the United Nations Declaration”.This is a common recommendation from countless briefs and testimony. People are deeply concerned with the extremely narrow definition of “effects within federal jurisdiction” in this bill. The promise was that we would have an expanded bill that would cover all matters of federal jurisdiction. If this definition remains, then we know we're going to have a continuation of the federal government not reviewing the vast number of projects in Canada.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English]It's replacing a line that has a very narrow definition of indigenous rights, as “the current use of lands and resources for traditional purposes”. What indigenous peoples are calling for is a much more expanded recognition of “their rights recognized and affirmed by section 35 of the Constitution Act”. I would add in there “UNDRIP” as well. The current proposed subparagraph 2(c)(ii) is extremely narrow in reflecting what are considered to be indigenous rights.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1245)[English]A number of witnesses recommended that we add a definition of environmental justice. This is consistent with the testimony we heard when we reviewed the Canadian Environmental Protection Act and, in fact, recommendations made by this committee to start incorporating environmental justice into federal legislation.The definition that was provided is as follows: environmental justice means the equitable distribution of environmental risks and benefits and includes fair treatment and meaningful involvement of persons regardless of their race, colour, national origin, income or membership in an historically disadvantaged group.It's considered that this would support new assessment criteria in clause 22 and decision-making criteria in clause 63.I agree with a number of the witnesses and those legal experts who have submitted briefs that it would be unfortunate not to include this. The very purpose of impact assessment, particularly when we're moving to strategic and regional assessments, is to make sure that we're dealing with cumulative impacts and we are ensuring that projects or developments that are being considered are not unfairly impacting specific communities. That's the nature of the beast these days, whether it's in Sarnia or in northern Alberta. With the expansion of coal-fired power that used to happen in Alberta, we are starting to see specific communities that are bearing the brunt of impacts to a greater degree than are other Canadians. That is why it is in U.S. legislation, and it has also been recommended in the federal Canadian Environmental Assessment Act. I am also recommending that the term be added to this bill to make sure that we have equitable distribution of the risks considered when we have either the agency or panels reviewing projects or we are undertaking regional or strategic assessments.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]I'd like to respond to that.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]The term can't be litigated until it's in the law. The majority of this committee agreed to put this term into the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. The government, in its wisdom, has not chosen to bring forward a revised Canadian Environmental Protection Act. Either this bill or that one would be the first one where it would come forward.I'm not aware if it exists in any federal law; it may well be in provincial law. It's certainly in U.S. federal law. There's an environmental justice committee in the United States Environmental Protection Agency. It has been discussed by the Commission for Environmental Cooperation with Mexico, Canada, and the United States. It is not an unusual or a new term. It's very common throughout North America.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]This is being brought forward to suggest—what a wild concept—that we actually have consistency in federal legislation. The Canadian Environmental Protection Act, some time ago, amended the law to divide up federal land and what they call in that bill “aboriginal land”. It's in subsection 3(1) of CEPA 1999. This would ensure that this act becomes consistent with the first nations final agreements, many of which have been signed, particularly across the north and in British Columbia. The land management agreements have been signed with many first nations, where they take on the responsibility for managing their own indigenous lands, and certainly is consistent with UNDRIP. I'm doing this so that it becomes consistent with other federal laws. The Canadian Environmental Protection Act separately defines federal lands and aboriginal lands. I am recommending that the same provisions be provided in this law.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]What a surprise.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]In this amendment, we're doing exactly what was proposed in the Liberal proposal. This same issue arose when we were reviewing the Federal Sustainable Development Act. It was discovered that the current sustainable development act and the one that has been proposed by the government, which also still has not been brought forward for final reading and debate, kept referring to “environment”, not to “sustainability”.The front end of this bill and both of the preambles talk about the whole purpose of this bill being to ensure sustainability. Then it defines all of the aspects of sustainability, and “effects” mean economic, environmental, and social effects, but not cultural ones apparently. We have gone through the entire bill, and to provide consistency we propose that it speak simply of “adverse effects” rather than “environmental effects”. If the intention of the government is to send the message that we're no longer limiting reviews to the impacts on the environment, but are also looking at social impacts and economic impacts, why have we reverted back to the word “environmental”? This amendment goes through, as much as we could, the entirety of the bill. When you get to page 47, we have added a definition of “adverse effects” rather than “environmental effects”. That would be the same, consistently, as impacts on “the environment, health, social, cultural or economic conditions”. I looked at what the Liberals brought forward on the sustainability act, which were the same amendments that I brought forward. The government, in its wisdom, obviously agreed and said, yes, we should be speaking to sustainability, not to environment, because that's what the sustainable development goals are. They're much bigger than just impacts to the environment.This bill supposedly is going to deliver an impact assessment process that goes far beyond just environmental impacts. I have endeavoured to reflect that throughout the bill, so wherever it would say “environmental effects”, instead it would say “adverse effects”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]Committee members know that we heard from the Federation of Canadian Municipalities its disappointment that municipalities are not included specifically in the bill. This amendment addresses their specific request.After line 18 on page 7, and the words “the government of a province”, we would add “(c.1) the government of a municipality”.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]Mr. Sopuck would like that.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English] Can I speak to that?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]I don't believe that all municipalities have duties, functions, and powers related to assessing the environmental effects of designated projects, so it's a very narrow provision. Unless you happen to be a municipality.... A small town probably doesn't have legislation allowing it to assess the environmental impacts of a project. They can appear and testify, but....C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1315)[English]This goes to the definition of sustainability. I would say that the definition of sustainability in this act is very outdated. The current government has signed on to and endorsed the 2030 agenda for sustainable development, which far exceeds what is listed here. If the government wants to stand by its commitment to all of the segments of what sustainability consists of, I would encourage us to adopt this definition. It would make Canada consistent, which would give us the ability to contribute to the sustainable development goals set forth in the resolution entitled “Transforming Our World: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development” and adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations. I would also add that this agenda for sustainability, on which the G7 Canadian agenda is set, includes rights for women.The definition that is there right now does not match what the government is claiming it now believes is sustainability. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1315)[English]I actually made this exact same amendment when we reviewed the Federal Sustainable Development Act.I'm being consistent. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]Let's try another definition.This is the one put forward by a number of Canadian environmental law organizations including Ecojustice, Nature Canada, and West Coast Environmental Law. Their proposed replacement definition would be:Sustainability means protecting, restoring or enhancing the environment, equitably contributing to the social and economic well-being of the people of Canada, and preserving their health in a manner that equitably benefits present and future generations and that achieves mutually reinforcing, cumulative and lasting gains.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]I know there is at least one provision that specifically deals with confidentiality in traditional knowledge. Are there other places in the bill where we need to specifically reference “traditional knowledge”, or has it been changed to “Indigenous knowledge” throughout?That is one place where that specific term would be needed, unless we are changing it, even in that section. I can't remember which section it is, but it's where we talk about ensuring confidentiality of traditional knowledge that is submitted during an impact assessment. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]It's not grouping them. Haven't we said that we're going to change it everywhere in the act?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]Okay, well, it's come up, so we need the definition.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]I don't see how we can vote on it. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English]In section 119, “traditional knowledge” is specifically referenced.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEdFastHon.AbbotsfordDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English] We had lengthy discussions on this matter when we reviewed, as a committee, the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. We had extensive witness testimony. My understanding is our committee recommended that the Canadian Environmental Protection Act now incorporate the term “vulnerable population” for the same reason we talked about environmental justice. It specifically includes any group or community especially vulnerable to environmental or health risks as a result of biological, social, economic, geographic, or other factors. It is an important matter for review panels or the agency, when they are reviewing proposed projects, to also assess whether or not there may be vulnerable populations, rather than their just looking at generalities. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English]I don't think I have added it anywhere yet.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsClause-by-clause studyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]No. I need the evening to prepare for the next day. RobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]I need the evening to prepare for the three-hour meeting the next day.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]How about another day?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English] Oh, because the government wants it fast-tracked, right?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]Until seven.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1135)[English] Thank you very much. It's nice to see the minister and her officials back. I look forward to the second hour of being able to spend more time with the officials as well.I'm presuming, Madam Minister, that you've been well briefed on the extensive and significant concerns raised about this bill that people have welcomed. Finally, the government has come forward with an amended three bills in one, in this 800-clause bill. My understanding is that we've received almost 450 amendments. That's only the tip of the iceberg. Regrettably, so far, the members of the committee have only actually seen one half of the briefs that have been submitted, mainly because this review has been so fast-tracked. We will have 450 amendments to review in the next four meetings, maximum. That means that we regrettably won't be able to consider a great many of the amendments that industry, NGOs, and indigenous, Métis, and Inuit communities put forward. I would encourage the minister to consider the briefs that have been put forward if we are not able to raise their concerns in our process.Madam Minister, you have again repeated here—and I appreciate that—your government's commitment to the UNDRIP. The request that I am putting to you is the same request that I put forward in this committee to amend the Federal Sustainable Development Act and was not accepted.Are you willing to amend your bill to specifically reference the UNDRIP as requested by first nation, Métis, and Inuit people appearing before this committee?Aboriginal rightsC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsUnited Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous PeoplesDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]Minister, if I could interrupt, I'm well aware of what is provided in the bill.My question is very specific. Are you willing to accept an amendment to this bill to specifically reference the UNDRIP, yes or no?Aboriginal rightsC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsUnited Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous PeoplesCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa CentreCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]Okay.A lot of concern has been expressed about the discretionary nature of this bill. Nobody knows yet what will be on the project list, and many have expressed concern, including industry, that we don't yet know what will be covered by this bill. You've brought forward the same discretionary power that existed in the Harper assessment bill. That is where, if you're informed of significant potential impacts to health or environment, you have a discretion. Are you willing to consider changing that provision and making it mandatory, when information comes to your attention that there may be potential significant impacts to health or environment, that you would require a federal assessment?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsDiscretionary powersEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa CentreCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1135)[English]With all due respect, Madam Minister, that's not my question. I'm not asking about the right of people to participate.I'm asking if you are willing to consider an amendment that would make it a mandatory duty, not a discretionary option, to trigger a federal assessment if you become aware of potential significant impacts to health or the environment.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsDiscretionary powersEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa CentreCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English] I'm taking that as a no.In terms of Bill C-69—and this is regrettable—my party did make the request that the bill be split. We note there are two representatives of the natural resources committee here. We don't have that option, because we have only one member on the committee. We had hoped that the navigation would go to the transport committee, that the new CER would go to natural resources, and the assessment bill here. But you are responsible, as I understand, for the full bill. Right now the bill exempts the CER commissioners who would join a review panel from considering climate impacts. Are you willing to consider amending the bill so that those members will also have to consider climate impacts when they're reviewing a project?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa CentreCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Thank you to the officials for being here. I note we have nobody from the Department of the Environment.My first question is to you, Mr. Parker, because you hold a very important position, actually drafting the legislation and regulations. I admire that. I've had similar jobs myself. Who did you take your marching orders from, or was it the CEAA office that actually drafted the first part of this bill? Who was actually leading the drafting, and who was making the final decisions on what provisions went in or didn't go in?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]I actually want to know the tail end. I want to know who had the authority in the end to say this is the final bill, part one of this act. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsLegislationBrentParkerBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English] We don't have Justice here. Can I ask, was the starting point the Harper 2012 CEAA or was it the before the Harper evisceration of that act? C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsLegislationBrentParkerBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]So you started at zero.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsLegislationBrentParkerBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]You did not start with the existing bill.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsLegislationBrentParkerBrentParker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]It's okay. I don't think I'm going to get a clear answer.There's a lot of concern expressed in testimony to us about how vague the extension of the public right is. That was the main reason for the lack of public trust in the federal assessment process, that erosion of the public's and indigenous peoples' right to participate. All that it says in the bill is the agency must ensure that the public has an opportunity to participate. There have been suggestions that we could add in adjectives like “reasonable” or “effective”. Why was there no provision, and do you think that the department will be open to a provision to require regulations where there's consultation on what the specified rights are, the right to cross-examine, the right to table evidence, and so forth, because right now there essentially is no guaranteed right?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationBrentParkerChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]You're not answering my question. I'm talking about specific rights. The reason why there was such a hue and cry about the Harper evisceration of this bill was that people were being denied the right to participate effectively in the reviews, and what they had been looking for in this legislation was that they would be specifically guaranteed the right they previously had, to table evidence, to cross-examine. I'm not worried about each part. Yes, the right should be in every part of the process, but why is there no specific right and do you think that there is some opening in the ministry that they will, in fact, strengthen this bill to actually guaranty specific rights to participate?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]True.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]The purpose statement is not really binding.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationChristineLoth-BownChristineLoth-Bown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]Okay, I'm not getting an answer to my question. I have very little time left and I have some specific questions for the Department of Transport officials. There has been deep concern expressed that there is no linkage between part 1 and part 3 of the bill and that there is no requirement to consider navigation in these environmental assessments. That concern was also expressed by indigenous intervenors who said that in many cases they need access to marshes and so forth that could be dewatered by projects, and there's no requirement to consider those. Is there a reason why there is no linkage between the two parts or the bill?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsInland watersChristineLoth-BownCatherineHiggens//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English] You still have an obligation to consider navigation—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsInland watersCatherineHiggensDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]No. I have another meeting at 1:00, as I said at the beginning of the meeting.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1300)[English]I have to get to Centre Block by 1:00.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1125)[English]I'm sure that Ed would love to pass over his questions to Elizabeth in his absence. Voices: Oh, oh!Ms. Linda Duncan: Just following on our colleague's questions on agriculture, I have to share, Madam Commissioner, that I am a little stunned. A program I worked with, Prairie Farmers to Save, was a community pasture program. It was a remarkable program that had very little infusion of federal dollars. It helped small farmers to maintain biodiversity, as there were a lot of threatened species in this community pasture, including Govenlock. In its wisdom, the Conservative government killed the community pasture program, which is now going to go under the plow, and we're going to lose the biodiversity and the access to that program for small farmers. I just wanted to add that. I want to thank you again, as I did when you did your briefing, on two further important reports. I have to say it's getting discouraging, though I'm pleased that you and your team continue to do your hard work and your honest assessment. We had you in very recently, Commissioner, on sustainable development. Of course, our committee is also reviewing the bill the government has put forward to, in theory, strengthen the Federal Sustainable Development Act. In their wisdom, they have still not brought that bill back, so we have to go on the basis of what the bill provides right now. You've made some recommendations to strengthen and to provide direction, and in fact one of your complaints is that there is no whole-of-government approach, either on biodiversity or on sustainable development goals, but we have the cabinet directive and we have the Federal Sustainable Development Act as it is. On the basis of your report, what are the most critical measures the current government needs to take to actually start being taken seriously about delivering on the sustainable development goals?8560-421-521-05 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons (Spring 2018)Climate change and global warmingCommissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJulieGelfand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English] It will be important to go after more than one of 17. The government seems fixated on feminism, not the other 16. I do have another question for you about your continued concerns about the failure to deliver on obligations on biodiversity. What can be done to send the message to the government that it actually has binding legal obligations regarding endangered species?8560-421-521-05 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons (Spring 2018)Climate change and global warmingCommissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentEndangered speciesSustainable developmentJulieGelfandJulieGelfand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1245)[English]I'd like to start with a reminder of why we've invited all of you stellar federal officials to come before us. It is because of the significant failings identified, yet again, by the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development on your delivery of the sustainable development goals, or delivery on the international commitments and legal duties to protect biodiversity. It's a very clear report with a long list of failings. One of the strongest ones from the commissioner is that the Department of the Environment has failed to provide the necessary leadership across agencies.I would like to have your deputies here because they give you your marching orders, and it is a question that has plagued our country since I started in this work 50 years ago. My question for the ADMs here is, to what extent is the direction to maintain friendly federal-provincial relations prevailing over your ability to deliver on your international commitments and your legislative obligations on threatened species?Anyone can start. We're running out of time.8560-421-521-05 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons (Spring 2018)Climate change and global warmingCommissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentFederal-provincial-territorial relationsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanSueMilburn-Hopwood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1245)[English] No. My question is very clear.To what extent, do your marching orders from above, that you need to maintain friendly federal-provincial relations, prevail over your actually delivering on your responsibilities under Canadian legislation, for example, under the SARA? 8560-421-521-05 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons (Spring 2018)Climate change and global warmingCommissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentFederal-provincial-territorial relationsSustainable developmentSueMilburn-HopwoodSueMilburn-Hopwood//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1245)[English]I am glad you raised the boreal caribou, because that's one of the clear areas, including the mountain caribou, where the federal government is not intervening or meeting either of its responsibilities that were included in the timeline. We know there are two herds of mountain caribou in B.C. They are essentially extinct.The other way I would put my next question to you is as follows. Given the responsibilities and commitments to sustainable development and the protection of biodiversity, and to the rights and interests of indigenous peoples, particularly treaty rights, why did these agencies not intervene to raise concerns about the transboundary impacts of the Site C dam, and about potential impacts to the world heritage site?8560-421-521-05 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons (Spring 2018)Climate change and global warmingCommissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentDamsNature conservationPeace RiverSustainable developmentSueMilburn-HopwoodHilaryGeller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]Is there nobody present who can speak to the responsibilities of protecting the biodiversity at that world heritage site?I guess my question would be, in what circumstance would Parks Canada, or Wildlife Services, or Environment Canada see an obligation or be directed to have an obligation to intervene, and refuse a major project like the Site C dam, and identify the impacts and potentially address what the mitigation measures might be?8560-421-521-05 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons (Spring 2018)Climate change and global warmingCommissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentDamsNature conservationPeace RiverSustainable developmentHilaryGellerRobProsper//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]Because the Mikisew called for it.8560-421-521-05 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons (Spring 2018)Climate change and global warmingCommissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentDamsNature conservationPeace RiverSustainable developmentRobProsperRobProsper//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]You're talking about the strategic plan that UNESCO directed.Why did none of your federal agencies intervene in the hearings on the Site C dam to identify those before the project was approved?8560-421-521-05 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons (Spring 2018)Climate change and global warmingCommissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentDamsPeace RiverSustainable developmentRobProsperHilaryGeller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]I am simply raising that issue, because over and over again the commissioner's reports are saying that, on biodiversity, the government likes to attend international meetings. It forms committees and so forth, but the commissioner is not seeing any action on the ground. One of those actions would have been, in the old days, 30 years ago, the federal government actually holding joint reviews, or appearing and providing testimony and research.8560-421-521-05 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development to the House of Commons (Spring 2018)Climate change and global warmingCommissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1200)[English]Most of my questions are going to be to Professor Doelle, but to Mr. Carlton, if I can offer a better suggestion to you, considering that you want municipalities recognized.... Although I have to share with you that my experience with municipalities involved in hearings and major projects is usually that they're supporting it exactly as it goes forward and rarely support more conditions on the project. That's my experience in Alberta.It doesn't appear obvious in the definitions of “jurisdiction” that this includes municipalities. I think it would be a good idea for us to refer to the legal people, the legislative drafters, and ask them whether municipalities are included. If they're not, then I think it'd be a good idea to add them in. I fully agree with you that I don't think municipalities come under “public”. I have much bigger questions about the definition of “public”, because I don't think that indigenous peoples think they're “public”. There are even bigger problems with this bill than what you're identifying. I think you're raising a genuine point, and I think it'll be up to us to look at it if we want to make sure that the municipalities' issues are heard, and that we find the best ways to do that in the bill. I think this might be the best place to put it.Professor Doelle, thank you very much for your papers, your blogs, and your submission. I am absolutely delighted that in your submission one of the areas you focus on is the panel. I'm deeply troubled by this bill because there's absolutely no clarity on when a review is going to be by the agency, when it's going to be by a panel, or when a panel is appointed. You're making some very good suggestions. We're challenged for time. We have to have all our amendments in by next Tuesday. I would welcome any suggestions that you recommend.You're also recommending that a panel should provide in its decision a summary of the evidence in each of the factors and the recommendations for a response. Professor, what troubles me deeply is that whether the agency is going to review the matter, whether or not the matter should even be reviewed and assessed by the agency, whether it's reviewed by a panel, and whether it's in the public interest, they're all different factors. Do you think that's a problem? Do you think there should be consistency throughout on what the factors are that are taken into account and not just “considered”?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMeinhardDoelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English]Another aspect of the bill that you point out is that it's basically vacuous on the procedures of the panel. For example, there's no power in the panel to scope the review. Do you agree that there needs to be some kind of bringing together of the agency planning process? Normally my experience before review panels is that they sit down with all the parties and they say, “Okay, how are we going to scope this review?” That helps to reduce time.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsMeinhardDoelleMeinhardDoelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1205)[English] It looks like we're almost finished. I also like your ideas about the bill prescribing a baseline for the time for the review. The actual time would be assessed when you know what kind of a project you're dealing with. You added that there should be expertise and assistance in the budget for the agency to work as a secretariat for the panel.Thank you.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsMeinhardDoelleMeinhardDoelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English] I think I just have one question—although I could ask lots of them—for Professor Doelle.I'd like you to speak a little more about the appeal tribunal. One thing I find really odd is that the government insisted on putting these three acts together in one bill, presumably because they would relate to each other. For part 2 for the CER, they have ADR and they have appeals but we don't have it in the first part of the bill. Is one option just to bring forward those same provisions, where ADR could work very well in the assessment process as well in some way?I wonder if you could talk a bit, too, about the difference between appeals to the Federal Court on matters of law or fact in law, and to this appeals tribunal. Who would sit on that tribunal? Do we have a problem because it's not in the bill? Are they going to say that we need a royal recommendation?Appeals and appeals officersC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentFederal Court of AppealGovernment billsThird party managementDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMeinhardDoelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English] And Bangladesh.Appeals and appeals officersC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentFederal Court of AppealGovernment billsThird party managementMeinhardDoelleMeinhardDoelle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English]Madame Pauzé, you can have the rest of my time.MeinhardDoelleMoniquePauzéRepentigny//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1245)[English]I'd like to ask one quick question.MoniquePauzéRepentignyDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1245)[English]I know this is an ongoing debate and there's a Bloc bill to do with this, but surely we can't go beyond the constitutional rule that the federal government has paramountcy over the provincial. Maybe, in your proposed section 63...and this is why I'm saying that the factors throughout should be the same. I don't understand why they should be reduced down by the time you get to the public interest determination. They should take into consideration any matters raised, including by-products of the municipality.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsMunicipal governmentProvincial jurisdictionDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English] Do you mean based on her report? DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1635)[English]My questions will be to Mr. Watson. It's great to see you. We worked together a lot in Alberta on the Clean Air Strategic Alliance, which we both worked very positively with, and we recommend, at the federal level, bringing everybody together.We've heard mostly about the first part of Bill C-69, but of course there is a second part, and that is the new Canadian energy regulator. A number of recommendations have been made both for the impact assessment part and the Canadian energy regulator. One of the recommendations that some of the witnesses are suggesting, and frankly that the expert panel recommended, is that rather than ad hoc panels, there should be a full-time tribunal. Given your experience both in Alberta and as the head of National Energy Board, do you think there is an advantage to having a full-time tribunal that develops the expertise to hear those hearings, or do you think you would be able to deliver the same responsibilities effectively with people appointed ad hoc to panels?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsThird party managementDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanPeterC. Watson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1640)[English] I'm not raising a question about the integrated.... There are questions about that, about how many should come from the various energy sectors. It's more of a question about how under the first part of the bill, the proposal is that there simply be a roster of people who could be appointed to panels, whereas right now we have a full-time National Energy Board.Do you think that there are any advantages to a full-time tribunal that may be lost with simply a roster of people who could be pulled up from time to time?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsThird party managementPeterC. WatsonPeterC. Watson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1640)[English]Sure. We look forward to having them back again, hopefully.Two other recommendations were made by Calgary entities—a professor from the University of Calgary, and the Pembina Institute. They recommended something that, regrettably, will probably require a royal recommendation because it would require additional resources. They proposed an independent energy information agency. I think the intent there is that, because of their experience before the various provincial and NEB tribunals, it would be useful to have a common base of neutrally collected information that everybody can rely on and have trust in.Do you think that there would be some benefit to consideration of that to support the work of, frankly, all the tribunals under Bill C-69?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsThird party managementPeterC. WatsonPeterC. Watson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1640)[English]My other question has to do with something that has been raised by some of the industry: the concern about the transition period between the enactment of this law and the creation of the new entities and about the continuation of the National Energy Board.I wonder if you'd like to speak to that at all.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPeterC. WatsonPeterC. Watson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1140)[English]Madam Chair, before we proceed to questions, I'm concerned that we don't have the briefs yet for any of these witnesses. I imagine they're going through translation.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English]It's going to be very difficult for us to submit any necessary amendments based on what they're asking for if we can't have those well in advance, because then we have to go through the drafters, and then it has to be translated, and then submitted. I'm wondering if we could have some kind of idea of when we're going to have these briefs and if it's not by tomorrow, I think we need to extend the deadline to submit amendments.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English]By the end of the week is not adequate, so I am asking that the deadline for submission of the amendments be extended because I want to give due consideration to the recommendations, and I don't feel that I can until I actually see what's proposed in their briefs.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1140)[English]That's not the answer to my question. I'm asking that the deadline for the submission of amendments be extended to a later date.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English] Thank you very much. The testimony of all of you is really important and I very much look forward to seeing your briefs, as I want to have time to consider the specific amendments you're proposing. As you know, we heard from Mr. Namagoose and he made the same type of proposal about a carve-out. One thing that puzzles me is, having heard your testimony, is why in Bill C-69 we only somewhat carve out the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act, completely ignoring all the other first nation self-government and land claim agreements and impact assessment processes of the north. Perhaps it was Ms. Darling and Ms. Lam who spoke about this. I wonder if you could clarify something. There is added confusion because not only do we not know the project list, we don't know what's going to be on schedule 2. If your entities are included on schedule 2 so that you have a carve-out, or some such thing, we would probably have to remove section 40, which allows the minister to exercise her discretion and impose her system instead. I hope that your briefs will resolve that. Are you looking for more specific measures in Bill C-69 that clearly state a carve-out? If you want a carve-out whereby your processes apply instead because there's greater confidence of the peoples of your region, do you have sufficient resources in all cases to deliver that, or do you need some type of provision in here where the federal government could assist with funding?That question is for each of the three of you, maybe first to Ms. Darling and Ms. Lam.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsOpting out provisionDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanKateDarling//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]You're saying that this is the only one that's carved out right now. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsKateDarlingKateDarling//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]Thanks. Ms. Hoyt.KateDarlingAndreaHoyt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]Mr. O'Connor.AndreaHoytMarkO'Connor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]I wonder, Ms. Hoyt, if you'd like to speak to your call for a non-derogation clause and free, prior, and informed consent.Aboriginal peoplesC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsMarkO'ConnorAndreaHoyt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1315)[English]I want to thank all of you for your very important testimony.I raised this concern to the previous panel. As we have not received most of your briefs yet, I think we're going to need more time as a committee, if we're going to come up with recommendations for amendments that reflect your testimony, which is the whole purpose of this study.My first question would be for Ms. Lepine. Thank you for your brief. I know you have recently had experience with a strategic assessment, because you intervened with UNESCO. They have now directed that Canada and Alberta have to come up with a strategic assessment. Can you share with us your experience with that process as to how well you feel your nation or any of the other nations and Métis in the area are being engaged, whether you think the bill as written is going to enhance or improve the conditions for when you can call for a regional or strategic assessment to deal with the cumulative impacts, and whether or not the bill adequately gives you the right to participate in those strategic or regional assessments? Aboriginal peoplesAlbertaC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRegional and strategic assessmentsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMelodyLepine//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1320)[English]Chief Thomas, thank you very much for your remarks. A number of other indigenous leaders have come forward and called for not only section 35 to be mentioned in the bill, but also the United Nations declaration.There is a lot of debate about, “Well, if 40 of 100 chiefs have signed on and they support a project, isn't that enough?” I wonder if you could speak to this. It's my understanding that under the UNDRIP there isn't a quota system. I think you said very clearly that, for the definition of jurisdiction, you want the ability to self-identify and self-determine. Am I correct in understanding that you're saying the bill should reflect the fact that each individual indigenous community should have the right to self-determine?Aboriginal peoplesC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsMarkGustafsonMaureenThomas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1155)[English]I want to thank all the witnesses here today. Regrettably, in this 800-clause bill, where the government refused to divide it, you are the first witnesses who are talking about this part of the bill, so there is a big onus on you. I appreciate all the specific proposals for amendments.I have lots of questions, but I only have six minutes, unfortunately.Professor Bankes, it's great to have you here. You're certainly high on my list of recommended witnesses. You've done great work in Alberta and continue to do so.My question is quite different from what other people might be looking at, and it's the part on certificates for designated international power lines. I know you're probably well aware of the arguments over the MATL line, which went through southern Alberta and was built for export. I understand that there's still ongoing litigation on the constitutionality of it and that the NEB did not get involved in that. Do you think that part of the bill is clarifying it? It simply says that the commission may make recommendations and that the federal entity might get involved in those approvals. Have you looked at that part of the bill at all? C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsElectricity supplyEnvironmental assessmentExportsGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanNigelBankes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]I'm asking about the international lines.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsElectricity supplyEnvironmental assessmentExportsGovernment billsNigelBankesNigelBankes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]Thank you very much.There are really interesting proposals from the Pembina Institute. Thank you for picking up on the expert panel recommendations. You're recommending the creation of a public intervenor office for the second part of the bill. Should that also apply to the impact assessment process?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationNigelBankesNicholeDusyk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]I'm noting that the witnesses from Pembina, along with quite a few other interveners, are saying that it isn't enough just to say that the public can participate and that the agency may have rules on costs. You're recommending that we need specificity on both of those.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationNicholeDusykNicholeDusyk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]You're talking about a public intervenor office.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationNicholeDusykNicholeDusyk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English] Do you mean as is done in Alberta?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationNicholeDusykNicholeDusyk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]I have one more quick question for you. I know you want this question.Do you believe in situ should be included on the project list? Do you believe that there should be extensive public consultation, and do you believe the project list should be in place before we do the final reading of this bill?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationNicholeDusykDuncanKenyon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]Absolutely, as well as climate considerations, I guess.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDuncanKenyonDuncanKenyon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English] There is so much to talk about and so little time. I really appreciate everybody's input, particularly the fact that you are also talking about the Canadian energy regulator. It's insane that we're also reviewing that act. We don't even report to that minister.One of the things that I think has been left confused, and probably Professor Bankes can speak to this, and also the representative from East Coast Environmental Law, is that there seems to be confusion about the expert panel recommending a permanent tribunal as opposed to ad hoc appointments to a panel. I think people are getting confused about that permanent tribunal versus judicial review.Maybe it would be good if the lawyers who are testifying to us would explain that. Those are two totally different things. I can relate to one of the reasons the expert panel recommended a permanent tribunal, because I'm from Alberta and we're used to a permanent energy review panel. They are used to people coming forward. They're used to sitting down with participants and saying, “Can you get together with those other groups and combine and hire one lawyer and one engineering expert?”The problem is that, with this bill, nobody ever knows how their project is going to be reviewed. It might never be reviewed at all as a result of the so-called planning process. It might be reviewed by the agency. It might be reviewed by some type of panel. It's not really clear what the participation rights are under any of those. There is a need for clarification. If there are participation rules, those rules should apply across the board, including probably to the CER. There have been a couple of suggestions, some that might actually be put in the statute, or on the other hand, are actually under the regulation power of the cabinet, that the cabinet be required to issue regulations that state those rights. One thing I would point out, and I would be interested for people to comment, is that under the environmental co-operation agreement to NAFTA, Canada long ago signed on to deliver, for the rights before tribunals, the right to present evidence and the right to cross-examine, so it is odd that none of this is in there.I'm troubled by the suggestions of throwing in something like an adjective for “meaningful” participation, and then feeling that there's a need to define what meaningful participation is. You're cutting off the opportunity to actually have clear guidelines as to what the rights are. I would appreciate some feedback on that and who you think should best decide what those participation rights should be and what the access to costs should be. Where should those be laid out?Would anybody like to comment on that?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]Somebody talk. The clock is ticking.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]Okay, I'll ask another question.I notice that Pembina has recommended that UNDRIP be specifically referenced. We did have a number of other first nation leaders appear, and we're having more. Each of them seems to be echoing what you're saying, that UNDRIP should be specifically referenced.You might want to clarify one of the concerns that some people have raised, that this Bill C-69 appears to be premised on the Conservative reiteration of CEAA, not the original iteration. That's where there's some confusion. The Conservative iteration of CEAA was that the decision is by cabinet, not by the panel, so I find it puzzling that the Conservatives are raising the concern that in this bill the decision is left at the political level. In other words, it's the same—Voices: Oh, oh!C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]It used to be that way. They introduced that. What do you think? Do you think the final decision on a major project should be by the review panel or at the political level?Nigel?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPolitical powerDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanNigelBankes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]Yes. Do you like the way CEAA was before, or did you like it under the Conservative regime? Which way should it go?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPolitical powerNigelBankesNigelBankes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English]Thanks.NigelBankesDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1240)[English]I would like to hear a little more about those two recommendations by Pembina, including for the Canadian energy information agency and the rationale for how that is critical.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsInformation collectionRenewable energy and fuelDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanNicholeDusyk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1625)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Rather than propounding, I'm looking forward to hearing more from you. That was great testimony and these are great briefs. I wish we could have more time with you. I want to thank Mr. Kneen for the recommendation that if they sign off on this really fast, let's have another review, quickly, to solve the problems.My first question is to you, Mr. Namagoose. I'm very interested to notice that there is what one might call a carve-out in proposed section 40 of the bill, for the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act. The bill doesn't seem to recognize the difference between first nations who are under historical treaties and those who are under modern treaties—first nation final agreements. Of course, the Cree in Quebec have been innovative in the agreements that you've managed to reach. That's one area that probably needs a look. Why are we only singling out Mackenzie Valley resource management for that? It raises the question with me about Nunavut, the Yukon, and so forth.Are you, Mr. Namagoose, proposing this mechanism only when the projects are on your lands, or are you proposing it also if your lands and peoples are impacted? My second question is, are you proposing a joint panel where the Cree would determine who your representatives are? Third, are you proposing that it be under the auspices of your agreement? I'd appreciate a bit more clarity so that we can make some sound recommendations for the bill.Aboriginal peoplesC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJames Bay and Northern Quebec AgreementJames Bay CreeDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanBillNamagoose//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English] I suggest that what you have raised here is very important. If there's anything you can further submit to our committee to outline how you think that might go.... For example, I would think you don't just want an indigenous person appointed to a panel. You want to have representatives of the northern Cree selected by the northern Cree. Any details you could provide would be really helpful.My other question is to the other three on the panel. What do you believe are the most critical changes to the bill needed to restore public trust in the federal assessment process, perhaps in addition to what you have already said? What do you think needs to be done?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationRegional and strategic assessmentsBillNamagooseJoshuaGinsberg//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1630)[English]Sure you can.AnnaJohnstonAnnaJohnston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1640)[English]Madam Chair, I have a point of order. I would like you to make a ruling on relevance. We're here reviewing Bill C-69. If my colleague here has an explanation about the relevance of what he's raising to what they're requesting be in this bill, then I would be happy.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—NeepawaRobertSopuckDauphin—Swan River—Neepawa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1730)[English]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.Mr. Northey, I'm so glad to hear you testify about the tribunal. I think I'm at odds with just about everybody I'm talking to who thinks an agency can deliver what a tribunal can. My experience is with the energy and the utility review boards in Alberta. It's always been a tribunal. I frankly don't understand.The proposal in here is that the impact assessment agency is going to adjudicate first nations' rights. I just find that an absolutely astounding possibility. Without completely revamping this act, I don't know how we can shift that. Anyway, I was really grateful for your review. I thought it was very sensible. To me it makes perfect sense, based on my 40 years' experience dealing with those tribunals.I'm deeply troubled with even the concept that the federal government could defer to a provincial government to hear evidence on and rule on matters of federal jurisdiction. I would appreciate.... I can't see any conditions that would make any sense whatsoever. On the other hand, joint tribunals have always been suggested as the way to go. Many provinces push against that because they just want the feds to butt out. I would like to hear from both Mr. Northey and Mr. Hazell on the issue of substitution.Aboriginal peoplesC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment billsImpact Assessment Agency of CanadaOversight mechanismDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanRodneyNorthey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]Paddle Canada, I wish I could spend more time on the rivers but I can't.Can you speak a bit to the concern that a good number of people are raising with what happened to navigable rivers under the Conservatives and now is also troubling?I don't think there is anywhere in the provisions the right of Canadians to recommend additions. Some have suggested there not be a list at all and simply all navigable waters require a review maybe based on the significance of the proposal. Could you speak to that?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsInland watersStephenHazellJayMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]Do you agree that the definition right now is inadequate?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsInland watersJayMorrisonJayMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]There's a definition in the act all right.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsInland watersJayMorrisonJayMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]Yes.JayMorrisonJayMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1735)[English]Okay.JayMorrisonJayMorrison//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1745)[English]Tie it to the bill.StephanieKusieCalgary MidnaporeDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1155)[English]I only get one chance because there's just little old me for my party, so I have a lot of questions for you. I'd like to thank all of you for your presentations. They're invaluable.I want to also thank you, Professor Olszynski, for your initial analysis and then for your submission, as well, because it has been very helpful.Professor Olszynski, thank you for your input on clauses 84 and 22. There's one aspect on ensuring efficacy of the mitigation measures on which I would welcome any additional advice you have in order to redraft clause 84 and clause 22, which I notice also deal with that. The provision does mention that, but perhaps you don't think it's clear enough. There's one aspect to clause 84 that is deeply troubling to me. It only speaks to “significant adverse environmental effects”, and yet this bill is supposed to be dealing with sustainability.You may be able to offer us some advice on how those sections can be redrafted to actually reflect what the act is supposed to be doing.I've a question for probably the three of you, Ms. Ronson, and professors Olszynski and Elgie, on the strategic and regional assessments. A lot of people have raised this as a concern. It's just kind of an add-on, but there's no detail. With regard to the strategic and regional assessments, do you think that when to call one should be simply up to the agency's discretion or up to the minister? Do you think it should be specified in regulation or in statute? Should the statute require regulations to specify the criteria for regional or strategic assessments? For example, it might say that, where information is available, a region or sector may pose cumulative impacts.Should the law also specify the timing? In other words, should the law be providing that these strategic and regional assessments should be done before specific project approvals? I'm sure Ms. Ronson would like to speak to that, given the fiasco around the approval of the Site C dam, where there was absolutely no consideration of transboundary impacts and no consideration of the ongoing cumulative impacts to the world heritage site at Wood Buffalo via ongoing oil sands applications.I would welcome your input, and if there's time, I'd love to hear from Ms. Flood on that as well.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRegional and strategic assessmentsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMartin Z.Olszynski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]Thanks.Professor Elgie.Martin Z.OlszynskiStewartElgie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]Ms. Ronson.StewartElgieAlisonRonson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1200)[English]Before I let Ms. Flood respond, I have a second question. In fact, I have a million questions for you that I won't get a chance to ask. There is a lot of concern with the designated project list and with the loss of what was known as the law list. Do you think that the solution simply is to keep expanding the ways to add projects to the designated project list or should we be going back to other triggers that include the law list? Is there a law that applies to federal lands or impacts adjacent lands and waters and federal spending?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRegional and strategic assessmentsAlisonRonsonStewartElgie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English] Again, there's so little time. Thank you to all of you for your important testimony and also for your briefs, because they will give us more ideas on how this act can be amended to strengthen it.There are two issues I hope I can get to, because I would like to hear from all of you.Chief Adamek, do I presume that you're from Kluane First Nation because you are Kluane?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanKluaneAdamek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English] I had the honour of working with Kluane when you were negotiating your first nation final agreement when I lived in Yukon.Thank you, Chief Adamek, for raising your concerns about the adequacy of adherence to section 35 and the UNDRIP responsibilities, where the government and the agencies are only required to take into account the section 35 rights. These issues have also been raised by Fort McKay, and Fort McKay recommended that any of the consultations and accommodations on those rights and interests be at the planning stage and resolved before you go into the hearing.I would like to hear from Chief Boucher, Chief Teegee, and Chief Adamek, if we have time, on whether you support some other intervenors who have recommended, as did the expert panel, that the UNDRIP also be referenced specifically in the purpose and substantive provisions of the act.Aboriginal rightsC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsUnited Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous PeoplesKluaneAdamekKluaneAdamek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English]Chief Adamek?Well, Chief Boucher.KluaneAdamekJimBoucher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English]Do you think the reference to section 35 is sufficient, or do you think the act should also specifically reference the rights accorded under UNDRIP?Aboriginal rightsC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsUnited Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous PeoplesJimBoucherJimBoucher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English]Okay. Could I hear from the regional chief?JimBoucherTerryTeegee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1325)[English] Thank you.TerryTeegeeKluaneAdamek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]Thank you very much. There's not a lot of time left.KluaneAdamekDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English] Chief Boucher, thank you for your brief and your presentation. Clearly you are within a region where you're majorly impacted by regional assessments. We've heard other witnesses call for some kind of an obligation to enter into regional assessments before specific projects are reviewed. Would you recommend some kind of a provision in the bill that would have specific triggers for when there needs to be regional assessment to set the context for the specific projects?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRegional and strategic assessmentsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJimBoucher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1330)[English]Thank you very much.JimBoucherDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (0915)[English]Thank you.To the Canadian Electricity Association, I'm puzzled about your discussion about federal assessments. In the 50 years of building coal-fired power plants and gas plants, I don't think there has ever been either an individual federal assessment panel or even a joint panel. Am I hearing you saying that you're open to that and that it would be a good idea and that perhaps should be on the project list?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanTerryToner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0920)[English]No major facility to generate electricity in Alberta, I believe, has ever been subject to a federal panel. Do I understand that you're suggesting there should be federal panels?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsElectric powerEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerryTonerTerryToner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0920)[English]Thank you.I have some concerns with these suggestions from two intervenors that when there are expansions on site there's no need for a hearing. I object to that because there are additional carbon emissions and there's additional pollution, and in those sectors, they are very serious emissions and impacts.I heard from both the Canadian Nuclear Association and the Canadian Electricity Association, and I'm not sure that mining mentioned it but you might want to respond. I didn't get a chance to ask the oil industry this, but I asked them after and they shared the concern of a lot of people that those bills have been processed before we even see the project list.Do you agree with what some people are saying, which is that there should be an opportunity to see those project lists before this legislation is finalized so that we see what it applies to?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerryTonerJohnBarrett//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0920)[English]The site is the facility, right? The site means the land to me. You mean the facility. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJohnBarrettJohnBarrett//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0920)[English]I understand that. That's not a new argument from industry. That is a continuous argument by the oil sector.I would like to ask the Canadian Electricity Association something.You talked about the sustainability of your facility. Can you tell us your interpretation of what sustainability means under this bill?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsElectric powerEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsSustainable developmentJohnBarrettTerryToner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0925)[English] The mining association raised this issue, and I think others might have, but it left me puzzled because in my involvement with projects, you are applying for your federal and provincial permits at the same time as you're going through the environmental assessment, your water permits and your air permits.I don't understand why you would say that if you're on the regulatory path already, then there shouldn't be a new assessment. Can you clarify that? If you've already applied for your permits, but you haven't gone through an assessment process yet, are you saying you shouldn't have to go through the new assessment process? You said some projects are already on the regulatory path, and most people apply for the regulations at the same time they're going through the EIA, so all you're saying is that, if you haven't gone through the CEAA, okay, we'll do the new process.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsFrancisBradleyPierreGratton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0955)[English] Thank you. We'll just see how it goes. I may not need it all.I want to thank Mr. Gratton for his intervention saying that there should also be support for the public, indigenous, and so forth—financial support to participate in the regulatory process. We talk about it for the EIA process but we never talk about the parallel. I would encourage him to write a letter of support for the Canadian Environmental Network, which is seeking restoration of the fund that Mr. Baird cut. It was started in 1979 and it was very helpful because then we had constructive input to industry. I would encourage you to speak to the Canadian Environmental Network. Thank you for your intervention on that.I think it was the Canadian Electricity Association that raised this issue. They were concerned that there's not enough emphasis in this review on the economic benefits. Surely it's equally important that we also identify the economic costs. For example, some development could impact other sectors, like the fishery, or it could impact the traditional harvest or tourism, or it could cause health impacts through air pollution or contamination of water.Back in the 1980s, my recollection is that we did a lot of work before review panels, not just on the environmental and economic impact assessment but also on the social impact. For some reason, by the time we got to the mid-1990s, that disappeared. Would you not agree that there probably is a lot of expertise out there that we could just bring back? This isn't something new and different that, when looking at the sustainability of a project, we look at a more broad-based.... Is it not also true that the federal government has an international obligation to deliver on the 2030 sustainable development goals, and this is the mechanism to do that?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanFrancisBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1000)[English]That's not what I'm getting to.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsFrancisBradleyFrancisBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1000)[English]The specific concern was raised that they thought Bill C-69 does not have enough emphasis on the economic advantages or benefits.What I'm asking is this. Should we not be doing a balance? My recollection is that, at every hearing I've been at, we hear lots about the economic benefits. The local county comes in, the local towns, and so forth. Should we not also be hearing about the other side, possible economic costs?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsSustainable developmentFrancisBradleyTerryToner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1000)[English]Maybe I could turn to Mr. Gratton again, because he provided that information about where they have been employing indigenous people in their projects and so forth. Surely it's the job of proponents, in parallel to the review of these projects, to be pursuing economic benefits for the community. Surely that's not just the responsibility of the review agency. It's my impression that, the more work the proponent does up front in working with environmentalists, local communities, and the indigenous people, the better the chances are of getting your project approved and with fewer objections.Aboriginal peoplesC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsTerryTonerPierreGratton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1620)[English]Mr. Minister, I know you're fully aware that you have a great power. You have the unilateral power over navigation. It's a unilateral federal power, so unless you make a decision to protect a navigable river, there is no other recourse. Your government also committed to strengthening this act, as well as other environmental laws. There are definitely a lot of concerns that have been raised about the changes made by the Conservatives to this act, but there are equally a lot of concerns about this bill. One is that this Bill C-69 in its entirety has 800 clauses. One of the concerns that is being raised is that the impact assessment law does not include potential impacts to navigable waters as a trigger.Prior to the changes made by the Harper government, there were two major triggers for federal environmental assessment: one was potential impacts under the Fisheries Act, and the second was under navigable waters. The third, but always confusing, was impacts to the rights of indigenous peoples.Why has a decision been made not to include in the proposed impact assessment act, under clause 7, a trigger of a potential impact to navigable waters? Why is there a completely separate impact assessment process for navigable waters?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]Would you answer why you have excluded navigable waters?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]It is excluded from the list.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]Proposed section 7—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]—of the first part of Bill C-69 is fisheries. MarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]That's correct.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]We will just agree to disagree.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]My point is very clear—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]—it's not in section 7. Let's leave it at that.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]The decision was made not to put it in section 7.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]Let me ask you a second question.You spoke in your remarks about how highly you value impacts upon indigenous peoples. One of the greatest harms brought by the Harper changes was excluding the trigger of navigable waters for assessments of all the oil sands activities in northern Alberta, because of the interaction of all the streams, the marshes, and so forth.The federal government also, in its wisdom—both the Conservatives and the Liberals—failed to look at the transboundary impact of the Site C dam upon the rights of indigenous peoples in northern Alberta to traverse. There actually is a court case. Mr. Justice Hughes of the Federal Court of Canada found that any reasonable person would expect that the reduction of the number of protected waterways carries the potential risk of harm to the fishing and trapping rights of the Mikisew, thereby triggering the duty to consult. The area in which the indigenous people want to consult is the overall impact assessment, not a narrow process of simply looking at whether it is a minor or major impact. One of the big issues is cumulative impact, and that's a significant issue that's been raised by a number of people. I wonder whether you can tell us how this new act, under Bill C-69, adequately addresses potential cumulative impacts, even of minor works upon minor waterways.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]How does the act do that? Where in the act do you find addressing cumulative impacts?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]Do you mean section 7 of the navigable waters act, the navigation act?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersNavigation Protection ActMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]No—C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentEnvironmental protectionGovernment billsInland watersNavigation Protection ActMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountMarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Westmount//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1625)[English]I have one final quick question—MarcGarneauHon.Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—WestmountDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English]I have a motion to bring—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English]My motion is, if there is an opportunity, even at the end, can we bring the minister back, because we did not have him for the full hour? Committee businessDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English]I'm not talking about right now. We were delayed because of the votes.Committee businessDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English] Could we have a vote on extending an invitation for him to return at some date?Committee businessDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1635)[English]If people are amenable to that.... We said we'd like people back at the end, but at the very least I'd like to have him back—and his officials. Committee businessDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]Thanks.Concern was expressed by Mr. Bloomer, and perhaps indirectly but also by the petroleum association, about the time of economic uncertainty, but would you not agree that some of the significant factors for that uncertainty are the international concern with and commitment to address climate change, the shifting investment away from fossil fuels to renewables, including by many of your own members, public concern with the project review process, as Mr. Amos had identified, and the increasing commitment to finally resolve land claims and observe the UNDRIP? My question for you would be which of those do you think the government should not address?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanTerryAbel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]Until Mr. Trump came to power, the companies seemed to think it was appropriate to continue operating in Canada, so the obvious question is the onus is on industry to decide if you want to still operate within a regime that actually sets up a good regulatory regime. I have a couple of questions for the Hydropower Association. They were hoping that I would ask them some questions.I'm wondering if you support the need to consider transboundary impacts of hydro projects. We recently had the review of major project Site C, where the transboundary impacts into Alberta and Northwest Territories were not duly considered and responded to, which has resulted in a UNESCO call for an investigation into that. I think that isn't necessarily specifically listed under the act. Do you think that should be specified and, in fact, protect you so that once a decision is made, all of the impacts are considered and then you feel that you have a well-founded decision?BordersC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsHydroelectric powerSite C Clean Energy ProjectChrisBloomerEduardWojczynski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]That's an example. You don't have to talk about Site C.BordersC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsHydroelectric powerEduardWojczynskiEduardWojczynski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]Ms. Martin, do you want to respond to that? EduardWojczynskiGenevièveMartin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1820)[English]Okay, thank you.I'm hearing the Hydropower Association saying maybe there would be small projects and we shouldn't necessarily go with a full-fledged review, but a lot of people are raising concerns about cumulative impacts and the problem is up to this point in time—and it certainly has happened with oil sands applications as well—we're still struggling with who does the review, do you simply consolidate the cumulative studies done on all the projects, and who has to pay for it. That is a problem also with the so-called small hydro. At what point in time does somebody stand back and ask, what about the cumulative impact if there's just going to be one more, or major dams on one river system. How would you respond to that?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsHydroelectric powerGenevièveMartinEduardWojczynski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]That's the dilemma. I agree.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEduardWojczynskiEduardWojczynski//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1825)[English]How does does she know until she does the assessment...is the problem? C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsEduardWojczynskiDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1115)[English]Do we have to vote?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]It's terrific to have you here again, Commissioner. Thank you, Madam Leach. What a task. This is historic. We appreciate the effort. You've been pretty clear on where we've gone astray and what needs to happen. I appreciate particularly this report, on the heels of the report you tabled last fall in which you specifically pointed out problems at the federal level. Is it not true, Madam Commissioner, that it is the federal government that would be held accountable at the international level for meeting the commitments we made at Paris to meet the 1.5 degrees centigrade?8560-421-64-06 Report of the Auditor General of Canada to the House of Commons entitled “Perspectives on Climate Change Action in Canada: A Collaborative Report from Auditors General”Climate change and global warmingGreenhouse gasesOffice of the Auditor GeneralDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJulieGelfand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]This mechanism of the pan-Canadian framework, then, is a sort of strategy, but it is ultimately the federal government that is going to have to be accountable for what happens.The trajectory you're showing is not reassuring. It's troubling that each successive government just keeps dispensing with the reduction targets they set. The Conservative government dispensed with the initial targets, the Kyoto targets, and then the Copenhagen targets. Now this government has unilaterally decided that we're not going to meet the 2020 target. This gives cause for concern, because we have been making these international commitments and then just unilaterally deciding that, oh well, we'll work towards 2030. Is it not true that we are also committed to be reporting on where we are in 2020?8560-421-64-06 Report of the Auditor General of Canada to the House of Commons entitled “Perspectives on Climate Change Action in Canada: A Collaborative Report from Auditors General”Climate change and global warmingOffice of the Auditor GeneralJulieGelfandJulieGelfand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]Thank you.I'm deeply concerned that the targets are not also reflecting the actual emissions. I give by way of example the concerns being addressed by a lot of technically qualified people that the methane emissions are being grossly under-reported. It may well be that in those jurisdictions where we have substantial methane emissions, particularly from the oil and gas sector, the emissions are going to be substantially greater than what we are reported to be going to reduce. 8560-421-64-06 Report of the Auditor General of Canada to the House of Commons entitled “Perspectives on Climate Change Action in Canada: A Collaborative Report from Auditors General”Climate change and global warmingGreenhouse gasesMethane productionOffice of the Auditor GeneralJulieGelfandJulieGelfand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English] Okay, that is true. I know that Alberta has said it will reduce 40% or something, I think, of methane emissions, but it's well known that this is based on under-reporting, and it's not even actually monitoring yet.You raised last fall a really important matter. It goes to your overall issue about accountability. I and a number of people in Canada have been following what the U.K. and Germany have done. The United Kingdom actually enacted in law its targets. I think that every five years it sets another percentage reduction target. It has established an independent commission, headed by a former Edmontonian, that advises on how to meet the next round of targets, and then audits and publicly reports.Would you want to speak to whether that kind of mechanism at the federal level might help us better track what is going on federally, and then additionally provincially and territorially?8560-421-64-06 Report of the Auditor General of Canada to the House of Commons entitled “Perspectives on Climate Change Action in Canada: A Collaborative Report from Auditors General”Climate change and global warmingFederal-provincial-territorial relationsOffice of the Auditor GeneralJulieGelfandJulieGelfand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1130)[English]Okay. Thank you.I will give Mr. Cannings a chance. How many minutes does he have?JulieGelfandDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]Thank you very much. I am a federal member of Parliament, therefore my questions to you will be to do with my mandate to hold the federal government accountable. When I look at your report—as usual a fabulous, detailed, and helpful report—you note a lot of concerns with the failure by the federal government. Few federal departments or agencies have assessed or acted on climate change risks. Environment Canada did not develop an adaptation action plan. Environment Canada did not provide adequate leadership and guidance to other federal organizations to adapt adaptation plans. The government did not consistently report publicly on the results of implementing its regs—I would add there that the federal government has yet to implement its regs either on the carbon tax, methane, or the stepped-up agenda for shutting down coal-fired. The government did not clearly indicate how it would measure, monitor, and report on provincial and territorial contributions to Canada's 2030 target.You reported many similar issues last fall. You reported these in your previous report on adaptation and so forth. Do you have confidence in their response to you that more will be coming? I add to that the concern in the decision of the federal government to delay the release of federal funds to the provinces and territories—and to first nations and Métis settlements—to take their action. I just look at the delay in the release of money. Do you have confidence that the federal government is understanding your report and the fact that you're calling for expedited action?8560-421-64-06 Report of the Auditor General of Canada to the House of Commons entitled “Perspectives on Climate Change Action in Canada: A Collaborative Report from Auditors General”Climate change and global warmingOffice of the Auditor GeneralDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJulieGelfand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]Yes, it's not very reassuring. Clearly, as you stated, Commissioner, it is the federal government that's going to have the responsibility to hold Canada accountable for delivering.... Most of these reports are based on the Copenhagen targets, but I notice in the declaration that everybody's committed to the Paris targets as well. Can I presume that your next audit will include looking to that as well?8560-421-64-06 Report of the Auditor General of Canada to the House of Commons entitled “Perspectives on Climate Change Action in Canada: A Collaborative Report from Auditors General”Climate change and global warmingOffice of the Auditor GeneralJulieGelfandJulieGelfand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1105)[English]Madam Chair, I have a point of order.The Chair: What's your point of order?Ms. Linda Duncan: I would like to table a motion.The motion is as follows: That, with regard to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development's consideration of Bill C-69, an act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other actsC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]I'm tabling a motion.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]Yes, I can. I can table a motion.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]I'm giving notice of the motion.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]Yes, I'm giving notice of the motion. I'm not expecting that we'll debate or vote on it. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]Sorry: wrong language.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1105)[English]I am giving notice of a motion that I think you will find interesting: That, with regard to the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development's consideration of Bill C-69, an act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts (a) the Chair of the Committee write, as promptly as possible, to the Chairs of the following standing committees inviting them to consider the subject-matter of the following provisions of the said Bill: (i) the Standing Committee on Natural Resources, Part 2 Canadian Energy Regulator Act, Part 3 Pipelines, Part 4 International and Interprovincial Power Lines, Part 5 Offshore Renewable Energy Projects and Offshore Power Lines, Part 6 Lands, Part 7, Exports and Imports, Part 8 Oil and Gas Interests, Production and Conservation, Part 9 and Part 4 at General; (ii) the Standing Committee on Transport and Infrastructure, Part 3 Navigation Protection Act; (iii) the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development, Standing Committee on Natural Resources,Standing Committee on Transport and Infrastructure, Part 4, Consequential and Coordinating Amendments and Coming into Force as the provisions may be relevant to each respective parts of bill C-69; (b) each of the standing committees, listed in paragraph (a), be requested to convey recommendations, including any suggested amendments, in both official languages, in relation to the provisions considered by them, in a letter to the Chair of the Standing Committee on the Environment and Sustainable Development, in both official languages, no later than 9 a.m. on Monday, April 30 2018; and (c) any amendments suggested pursuant to paragraphs (b) shall be deemed to be proposed during the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-69, and further provided that the members of the Standing Committee on the Environment and Sustainable Development may propose amendments notwithstanding the recommendations received pursuant to paragraphs (b). Thank you very much. I have copies that I can circulate.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]Thank you to both the ministers and your officials.I think you know that we're hoping we can at least have your officials at the tail end of the review—possibly the ministers—so that you can respond to some of the recommendations made by the witnesses who come before us, which we think will be useful. It's good to hear from you at the outset, but it will be good to hear from you at the end about what you think Canadians are asking for.Mr. Carr, my first question is for you.Why is it that the CER appointees to panels are not required to consider climate commitments or cumulative impacts?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsCanadian Energy RegulatorClimate change and global warmingEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanJimCarrHon.Winnipeg South Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]And they are not included.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsCanadian Energy RegulatorClimate change and global warmingEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJimCarrHon.Winnipeg South CentreJimCarrHon.Winnipeg South Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]I'm talking about EI panels.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsCanadian Energy RegulatorClimate change and global warmingEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJimCarrHon.Winnipeg South CentreJimCarrHon.Winnipeg South Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]CER commissioners can be appointed—JimCarrHon.Winnipeg South CentreJimCarrHon.Winnipeg South Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English] I won't belabour it. Yes, the panel will consider, but not the CER appointees, so you might want to revisit the legislation. That might be something that you might want revisit.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsCanadian Energy RegulatorClimate change and global warmingEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsJimCarrHon.Winnipeg South CentreJimCarrHon.Winnipeg South Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]How do you respond to concerns? Both ministers might want to speak to this. The expert panel appointed by the government recommended, having heard from everywhere across Canada, a permanent quasi-judicial tribunal. Why was the decision made to simply have ad hoc panels of people appointed each time there was a project?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsCanadian Environmental Assessment AgencyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsOversight mechanismJimCarrHon.Winnipeg South CentreCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]With all due respect, Madam Minister, that's not my question. The question you're answering is if the panel will be decision-making or recommending. My question is, why did you decide to have ad hoc panels as opposed a stand-alone, full-time, permanent, quasi-judicial panel that would have expertise?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsCanadian Environmental Assessment AgencyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsOversight mechanismCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa CentreCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1145)[English]Thank you.The Minister of Environment repeated many times, when she spoke at second reading of the bill, the importance of public participation in the review of these major projects and how important it was that this legislation would resolve the lack of faith in the current NEB process where clearly there was great consternation because people were being denied the right to provide evidence or to cross-examine. Why is it then that this legislation is vacuous on prescribing specific rights? It simply says there will be a right to participate. It doesn't say whether that will include the right to table evidence or to cross-examine and it simply leaves it to the agency to decide from time to time when someone can participate, when they can't, what they'll be allowed to do, what they can't do. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsCanadian Environmental Assessment AgencyEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsPublic consultationRonHallmanCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]With all due respect, this legislation does not change that situation. It is also silent on whether costs will be available. I have a lot of experience in participating in energy reviews. The only way the community and indigenous peoples can participate is to be fully allocated costs and cost advances. We see nothing in the budget and there's nothing specifically prescribed that costs will be available to everyone who wishes to participate. C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment assistanceGovernment billsPublic consultationCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa CentreCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Thank you, Chair. I have one very quick question for the Minister of the Environment. Will this committee and the public receive the project list before our review of Bill C-69 completes, and before third reading proceeds?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Just a yes or no, because I have a second question.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa CentreCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]I don't hear a yes or a no on that. That's a little discouraging.We have a dilemma here. To both of the ministers, I know that the government wants to fast-track this bill. We had closure on debate in second reading. We're anticipating that we'll have that in the third reading as well. There's also a lot of stress on this committee to limit who can come forward.I've heard both ministers over and over saying it's important that everybody have their say. Who would you suggest that we not invite to testify before us from the first nations communities?Aboriginal peoplesC-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa CentreCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]I'd still like an answer to my first question, so that we know if we have any substance to our review. There's no substance to this act until we know the project list. Will it include in situ, and will it include dangerous rail cargo?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentFreight transportationGovernment billsOil and gasDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]We don't know if we will have the list or not.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsOil and gasPipeline transportationCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa CentreCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]Thank you very much.I'd like to reiterate what Ms. May just called for. I'm deeply troubled, and I know that many who have submitted comments on the bill are deeply troubled, that the minister's given complete discretion whether to conduct a review, whether to allow a province to deliver a review instead of the federal government, and to decide whether she's going to look at impacts to fisheries, or to first nations, or transboundary impacts.My question to the minister would be on the regional strategic assessments. The bill provides absolutely no specific criteria to trigger any regional strategic assessment. It's not really clear who would deliver that. The only strategic assessment I'm aware of that's proceeding right now is directed by UNESCO, and the minister in her wisdom sloughed that off to Parks Canada within their existing budget.I wonder if the minister can advise us on how strategic and regional assessments are going to be delivered, who will have responsibility, and what the triggers will be.C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRegional and strategic assessmentsDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanCatherineMcKennaHon.Ottawa Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]Let me give you a specific.... We have a cabinet directive on strategic assessment. How does that tie to clause 92?C-69, An Act to enact the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsEnvironmental assessmentGovernment billsRegional and strategic assessmentsStephenLucasStephenLucas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1250)[English]Thank you very much. It's good to you all here again. Sorry to take you away from your important work. I have three questions. I may not get to all of them. I have a theme every time you come back, and now it's the UNESCO strategic environmental assessment.It's my understanding that this responsibility has been assigned to Parks Canada. When I look at these estimates and the previous estimates, I'm not seeing any additional monies. Why are we not seeing additional monies here for that? That's a major undertaking. In that connection, what dollars are being assigned to directly engage indigenous people? That's one of the directives of UNESCO. As well, what additional costs do you anticipate in order to complete that strategic environmental assessment?Environmental assessmentInterim estimates 2018-2019Parks Canada AgencySupplementary estimates (C) 2017-2018United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural OrganizationDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanRobProsper//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]Okay, I don't want to interrupt. I know all of that. My specific question is whether you have been allocated additional resources, or are you having to rob Peter to pay Paul? Are some of the Parks Canada programs suffering because you're having to carry the weight of doing the strategic environmental assessment?Environmental assessmentInterim estimates 2018-2019Parks Canada AgencySupplementary estimates (C) 2017-2018RobProsperRobProsper//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]We definitely don't see those in these estimates.My second question is about the transfer of indigenous resources for SARA. I think those are probably coming from Indigenous and Northern Affairs to Environment and Climate Change Canada. I don't know where they are coming from, but there is a transfer to Environment and Climate Change Canada. I'm wondering if that's to do with the woodland caribou we're covering.Department of Indian Affairs and Northern DevelopmentEndangered speciesInterdepartmental transfer of fundsInterim estimates 2018-2019Supplementary estimates (C) 2017-2018Woodland caribouRobProsperDouglasMcConnachie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]That is the almost $67,000, or is it $67 million?DouglasMcConnachieDouglasMcConnachie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]Yes, it's in the supplementary estimates, page 2-43. It's for indigenous involvement in SARA, and I'm wondering if that's related to the woodland caribou.Department of Indian Affairs and Northern DevelopmentDepartment of the EnvironmentInterdepartmental transfer of fundsInterim estimates 2018-2019Supplementary estimates (C) 2017-2018Woodland caribouDouglasMcConnachieDouglasMcConnachie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]Maybe you could get back to us on what that is about, because I have another question.DouglasMcConnachieDouglasMcConnachie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]I have a different opinion on the low carbon economy. I am troubled that the $1.2 billion that was committed in 2016 has been sitting, and I'm a little stunned at the small amount that is being disbursed. I'm puzzled as to why that money has not been released to the territories and provinces more expeditiously.Department of the EnvironmentGreenhouse gasesInterim estimates 2018-2019Supplementary estimates (C) 2017-2018Transfers to provinces and territoriesDouglasMcConnachieMattJones//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]I'm a little puzzled when I look at the budget—MattJonesDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]This follow-up will be really fast.You're saying the money will be coming, but, in the coming budget, there's nothing about the fund. There are no plans to allocate any more money. The only thing is the federal carbon pollution pricing backstop. That all goes to the Department of Finace. I don't see anything in the budget for future allocation of these dollars. It leaves me wondering what's going on. I would appreciate some kind of update on what is going on with this fund. Perhaps you could send that to us.Department of the EnvironmentGreenhouse gasesInterim estimates 2018-2019Supplementary estimates (C) 2017-2018Transfers to provinces and territoriesDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1105)[English] In the future, can we provide locations?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1115)[English]Can they stay for two hours?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]Thank you, all of you. It was all very important testimony. Some of you may have also testified when we did the government operations review a number of years ago, making very similar kinds of recommendations at the federal level so that they could save money on energy efficiency. It's good to have you here again. I'm sure that all of my colleagues here join me in congratulating Mr. Nasseri, the owner of Landmark, for his recent Order of Canada, in part for his innovations in affordable energy-efficient housing. I'm really glad that Landmark could join us here.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingRenewable energy and fuelDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanBijanMannani//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]I'm wondering if you could tell us a bit more about this innovation, the ACQBUILT, this advanced construction and then assembly. Could you speak to what your experience is with customers who are seeking the Landmark approach to building? Do they put energy efficiency high on their list? Are the builders ahead of homeowners, or where are we at there in Canada?Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingRenewable energy and fuelBijanMannaniBijanMannani//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]Mr. Mannani, you're getting into more detail than we have time for, unfortunately. I think it would be really helpful if you have any kind of material that summarizes this production and how it reduces time and costs, but I have some other questions to ask, and I just wanted to say congratulations to you, so thank you.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingRenewable energy and fuelBijanMannaniBijanMannani//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1215)[English]Okay, thank you very much. We'll share that with the committee. My next question is about this issue of the delay in the net-zero code. From my perspective, if that code is not in place until 2030, there's a huge delay then in reducing after that, because it's time to catch up. I'm happy to hear from anybody here about what the federal government can do to move this ahead and identify what's needed for the skilled labour, what's necessary for R and D, and what we could do to speed this up so we could have benefits sooner. I'm wondering if any of you could speak to that part of it. Should we not be including the costs if we don't do the retrofit for the energy efficient housing? Maybe we'll start with you, Mr. Mueller.Building and construction industryBuilding codeClimate change and global warmingGreen buildingsRenewable energy and fuelBijanMannaniThomasMueller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Mr. McSweeney and then Mr. Giroux.ThomasMuellerMichaelMcSweeney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Yes.MichaelMcSweeneyMichaelGiroux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1220)[English]Those were good quick answers in a short time.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1225)[English]Hear, hear!ThomasMuellerThomasMueller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1250)[English]I'm going to take things in a different direction, and it's back to Mr. Mueller because we had the pleasure of you appearing before our committee in, I think it was, 2012. You gave some very valuable testimony, and by the way, you spoke to LEED and we have not had LEED here. What you testified to our committee was that large commercial landlords use pension funds to invest in buildings and the rates of return on those investments exceed 10%. A couple of years ago I met with the realtors association in Ottawa that actually leases the major commercial buildings, and they've shown a much greater demand for the buildings that have retrofitted and gone energy efficient. Could you speak to this issue? I'm wondering if this is not a huge potential for the Infrastructure Bank. We keep thinking about building freeways, LRT, but given the potential for rate of return on investing in retrofitting commercial buildings, is there not huge opportunity there?Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingHousing repairs and renovationLeadership in Energy and Environmental DesignRenewable energy and fuelDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanThomasMueller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1255)[English]We talk about affordability, too, so it's fine if we have a good income and we're going to retrofit a nice heritage house we own or we're going to build a new building. What about the big demand and need for affordable and social housing? Don't you think we need to have guidelines or rules for that kind of housing?Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingGreen buildingsRenewable energy and fuelSocial housingThomasMuellerMichaelMcSweeney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1015)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's a delight to be in your committee.ScottSimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameScottSimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1015)[English]I understand that DFO has received accolades from the commissioner, compared to other departments including Environment, for its climate research, so kudos to you.I am a prairie member of Parliament, and I have to share with you that for 45-plus years, I've been deeply concerned about the federal government's removal from responsibility for inland fisheries. I am looking at your report, which looked at three oceans and major inland waterways. As I understand it, you were concentrating on the St. Lawrence, the Great Lakes, and Lake Winnipeg. Famed scientists, such as David Schindler and W.F. Donahue have done extensive work on the potential impacts of climate change to glacier-fed rivers, including the Peace-Athabasca and including both the Saskatchewan basins. I'm wondering why DFO has failed to look at those inland waters.Climate change and global warmingEnvironmental assessmentInland watersReport 2, Adapting to the Impacts of Climate Change, of the Fall 2017 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentScottSimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre DameArranMcPherson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1020)[English] Thank you.I'd still have to say that the three major basins you're looking at are glacier-feds. I think it's a huge gap in analysis. I would look to assurance that the federal government is going to step up to the plate and deliver on a responsibility for those inland fisheries. We already have considerable science showing that we're already seeing impacts to flow rates in the Peace-Athabasca delta, and that obviously will have significant potential impacts to the fishery and indigenous reliance on the fishery as well as navigation.In relation to that, is DFO playing a role in the UNESCO review that has been called on the Wood Buffalo world heritage site? Two of the directives are looking at the flow rates in that basin into the world heritage site and the impact of climate, so it would seem normal to me that, given that your department is looking at the impacts of climate, you would be pulled in by Parks Canada, as they are leading that study by UNESCO.Climate change and global warmingEnvironmental assessmentInland watersReport 2, Adapting to the Impacts of Climate Change, of the Fall 2017 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentPierrePepinArranMcPherson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1020)[English]Of course, for the Site C dam, when the review was done both federally and provincially, they did not look at the transboundary impacts into Alberta, so of course, flow rates impact on the Peace, and in turn the Athabasca River, into the world heritage site. I know that certainly the first nations will be looking to DFO to intervene and provide information and advice for that review.Climate change and global warmingEnvironmental assessmentInland watersReport 2, Adapting to the Impacts of Climate Change, of the Fall 2017 Reports of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable DevelopmentSite C Clean Energy ProjectPierrePepinPierrePepin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1020)[English]Thank you.PierrePepinScottSimmsCoast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1150)[English] Thanks.I wonder if Mr. Hill could advise us on this. The premium is refunded up to 25%, and what is it based on? If you're more energy-efficient, do you get more back?Building and construction industryCanada Mortgage and Housing CorporationClimate change and global warmingGreen buildingsMortgage insuranceReimbursementRenewable energy and fuelDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDuncanHill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]Okay. What is the difference between the energy efficiency standards or rating that you do and the national building code?Building and construction industryBuilding codeCanada Mortgage and Housing CorporationClimate change and global warmingEnergy conservationGreen buildingsRenewable energy and fuelDuncanHillDuncanHill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]Okay. I would appreciate it if you can explain this to me. By and large, except for individual smaller companies that are building individual homes—we have this big battle in Edmonton about infill, when it is and when it isn't—most of the housing is being built by big companies such as Christenson and, a big leader in Canada, Landmark. I'm not sure how these two work together: if you get a CMHC mortgage to buy something that is built by one of these builders, where do the energy efficiency standards come in? We have a massive amount of housing being built by major construction firms. It's not like the individual person saying, “I'm going to build a house, and I'm going to be energy-efficient and then get a CMHC mortgage.” How do these work together?Building and construction industryCanada Mortgage and Housing CorporationClimate change and global warmingGreen buildingsRenewable energy and fuelDuncanHillDuncanHill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English] That's exactly my concern. Do we really still have the tools sufficient to drive that new housing being built in terms of adopting the best energy efficiency that's affordable?My next questions are for BOMA. It's great to see you again. I used to be on the government operations committee.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingRenewable energy and fuelDuncanHillBenjaminShinewald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]We had your testimony there, and we had a great report. You told us then that BOMA was actually hired by NRCan to upgrade their buildings according to BOMA rating. I'm wondering if you could tell me what is going on now with this. We had a terrific report, and we discovered, because of testimony from organizations like yours, how much taxpayers' money could be saved when we're building new federal buildings or retrofitting federal buildings. I wonder if you could speak to that and also to the commercial buildings. I shared with you before that I've heard from the realtors' association in Ottawa, which leases commercial buildings, that they're having a better chance of leasing buildings that are energy-efficient.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingGreen buildingsRenewable energy and fuelRental housingBenjaminShinewaldBenjaminShinewald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]I wonder if you could speak to whether or not energy efficiency is starting to be a major factor in leaseholds and also to what is happening at the federal level since our last review.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingGovernment facilitiesGreen buildingsRenewable energy and fuelRental housingBenjaminShinewaldBenjaminShinewald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]We need action.BenjaminShinewaldBenjaminShinewald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]Do you get two seconds, Randal?BenjaminShinewaldRandalFroebelius//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]Thanks.RandalFroebeliusDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Linda Duncan): (1200)[English]You still have two minutes.DarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (1145)[English]That's a political question, right?Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingRenewable energy and fuelEdFastHon.AbbotsfordVincentNgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]Thank you.Great question. I would have asked that, too, but I would certainly encourage the federal government to look into more innovative ways of helping people. If homeowners are going to be bound by 2030 to retrofit existing houses, we need a reality check here, because even people with a good income can't afford to do that. I'm thinking here of things like a tax write-off if you do an energy retrofit.I had the privilege when I was the NDP critic for public works to participate in the study, “'Powering' the Future of Federal Buildings: Energy Efficiency as a Goal”, in 2012-13. There are two responsibilities of the federal government. One is the national building code, but the federal government is also responsible for its own building stock, and I've heard nothing about that. I am wondering if you are aware of it, or if anybody is paying attention to this report, which made very cogent, useful recommendations. The federal government has a huge potential because they own so many buildings, if you look at things like National Defence and so forth.What action has been taken? You don't need to give me all the details. If there is any kind of report that's been done to action that report, I would appreciate it if the committee could receive it.There were recommendations such as that the federal government be required to collect, monitor, and report on energy use in each of its facilities. There was also a recommendation that Canada consider adopting what the U.S. Department of Energy did, which actually imposed directives to every federal department and facility on percentage of reduced energy use by a set date and percentage of reduced water use by a set date.I am wondering if somebody could speak briefly to that. What are you doing about your own building stock?Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingGovernment facilitiesGreeningRenewable energy and fuelDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English] Do you have something you could share with us on what you're doing and how well you've done?Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingGovernment facilitiesGreeningRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]Thank you.FrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]The previous administration refused to do that.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingEcotechnologyGovernment facilitiesRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]Can I just cut you off here? If you have anything written up about that, I would certainly welcome it, and I think other members would.I have a couple of other questions in my time. The clock is ticking. We may get a second round, but we may not.My second question is about northern and first nation housing. There's been a long-standing problem. Essentially, it has been the lowest-cost bid that has won and we have ended up with plywood housing. Have you had a role in saying, and has the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development or whoever is doing those biddings required, that there be energy efficiency in those buildings in the criteria for the bid?Aboriginal peoplesBuilding and construction industryClimate change and global warmingHousingNorthern CanadaRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]How do you define “north”?Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingNorthern CanadaRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1150)[English]Okay, but I'm asking not just about north of 60; I am also asking about all the reserve housing.Aboriginal reservesBuilding and construction industryClimate change and global warmingHousingNorthern CanadaRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]But it's not a requirement in the bid?Aboriginal reservesBuilding and construction industryClimate change and global warmingHousingNorthern CanadaRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]If you could get back to us on that, I'd be very interested.Do I have a few more seconds?FrankDes RosiersDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]My question, again, would be on what my colleague asked about, the retrofits. I look at your date of 2030. If that is when you surmise that the provinces and territories may finally be implementing that net-zero.... You have a target that you want to meet of 2030 for buildings, so how are we going to get there? If the code is not going to be in place until 2030, how are we going to get there by 2030?Building and construction industryBuilding codeClimate change and global warmingGreen buildingsRenewable energy and fuelDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]Published doesn't mean that it's binding on anyone.Building and construction industryBuilding codeClimate change and global warmingGreen buildingsRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1155)[English]It won't be published until 2030. We're going to have all this building stock built.... I am concerned. What is really happening to make sure that right now new buildings...? I know that in my own city, there's urban sprawl, mega houses burning energy like crazy. If you ask builders if people are saying they want energy efficiency, the answer is no: they want marble countertops.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]Thank you very much.This is really good. Just as a reminder, if you have anything on what's happened with the Office of Greening Government Operations report, your greening of the infrastructure, I'd really appreciate if we could receive that.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1230)[English]One of the issues we haven't talked about is the Just Transition and the training. It's one measure in the energy strategy that the current government has not addressed.One of the big challenges in moving forward, especially with the retrofit of existing housing, existing commercial buildings, including historic facilities is the training. I initiated something in our heritage area in my city, and it's a struggle to try to do it.Before the ecoENERGY retrofit was killed by the Harper government—they put it in and then took it away—there was a whole group of young people lined up in Edmonton to do energy audits and then to retrofit the poorest community in my riding. It was cancelled. One of the questions people ask, too—there are seniors and lower-income people—is whom to ask to do this kind of work and whom they can rely on.What is NRCan doing to invest in the training for the very people who are going to be doing this retrofitting, or installing clean technology, or doing energy audits?Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingEducation and trainingRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersSarahStinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]Okay, but that's different from building.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingEducation and trainingRenewable energy and fuelSarahStinsonSarahStinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]Related to that on the commercial buildings, one of the things that I find so frustrating is that in my city we have a huge area of light industrial and then commercial. It's all built in the south end of the city and there's only one building that has gone net zero that everybody goes to visit. We've talked a lot about housing but we haven't talked about what measures. I find it astounding that in this day and age, anybody would be allowed to build a big commercial or a light industrial facility without it being energy efficient. I mean, it just makes common sense. It reduces their costs. Are there going to be things in the building code that specifically relate to those kinds of facilities? My final question for you is—and you may want to speak to this—in in regard to a wonderful construction company in my city, called Landmark. They were just awarded an Order of Canada because of their innovations, but they have backed off from a lot of their innovations because of the frustration with trying to get approvals. So those kind of fit together.I'm a little bit troubled that everybody's always saying, “Oh, if only we had the technology.” The government wants to invest in pilots. I participated in the Generation Energy forum the day before, and almost all of us said, “Please, don't put all your money into more demos. Put it into deployment of the existing technology.” I wonder if you could speak to those together.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingGreeningRenewable energy and fuelSarahStinsonSarahStinson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]It's clearly not driving change, because I'm seeing these ridiculous buildings being built that could be energy efficient or use solar. So what do we do between now and 2030 to try to make that happen?Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingGreeningRenewable energy and fuelSarahStinsonFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]We're not seeing that. That's what I'm saying. It's not happening.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingGreeningRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]All I'm saying is, yes for housing, but big energy users are those kinds of facilities.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingGreeningRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersFrankDes Rosiers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (1235)[English]I have one more quick question. Where these people are going to be trained is not the universities, which has advanced tech and so forth; it's in the technical schools. There's Northern Alberta Institute of Technology and Southern Alberta Institute of Technology. Lethbridge has a wind turbine industry. We need more federal funding to go there. There are waiting lists already for oil field workers who want to have that training. I would just encourage, with regard to research money or development, that there needs to be more money going to actually training the people who are going to do the work.Building and construction industryClimate change and global warmingRenewable energy and fuelFrankDes RosiersDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP): (0850)[English] Before Mr. Godin goes on to other business, whatever it was that was circulated was circulated when I wasn't here. If it's something that a committee member wants us all to think about, I would appreciate receiving it, whatever was circulated that apparently was or wasn't committee business.Committee businessDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0850)[English]Actually, I have a point of order on that. I would appreciate Mr. Amos and yourself writing another letter apologizing for excluding my name from that letter.Committee businessDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0850)[English]I want to speak. I'm not trying to be obstreperous about this; I'm simply curious, okay? Something was circulated to everybody. I don't know what it was, and I'd appreciate receiving it. I'm not saying my rights have been violated; I'm saying that something was circulated and I'm interested in what it was. Now that I discover it was a request to sign onto the letter, I did sign on through my member of the committee, and yet my name was still removed from the letter. So I'm asking the two who submitted that to the government, please write again and say, “We, by mistake, excluded Linda Duncan's name.” That's all.Committee businessDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]So this is a new suggestion.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]We haven't voted on this one yet.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]Page 7.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentEdFastHon.AbbotsfordMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]What was that about a drafting question about this?C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]No, I'm asking a drafting question.If it says a committee of the Senate or the House, if the Senate decides to review it, does that mean we can't review it in the House? It says “or” not “and/or”.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]Well, your change says, “of the Senate or the House”.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]I'm just asking a legislative drafting question.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]I'm asking the legislative clerk. I want to make sure we have the opportunity.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]Okay, can it say “and/or”?C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentOlivierChampagneMr.OlivierChampagneMr.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]Can we add “or both” to that sentence?I want to protect the fact that our committee will have a right to review it if it's referred to a committee in the Senate.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentOlivierChampagneMr.DeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0855)[English]It's “any committee of the Senate, or the House of Commons, or both”.Can we add in the words “or both”?C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0905)[English]I'm even more concerned now. Has this committee ever had a joint review with a Senate committee? Do we anticipate that in five years we will review the sustainable development act with the Senate?C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMarkGerretsenKingston and the Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0905)[English]What he is saying is, it's one or the other or a joint committee. If the Senate decides to review it, we cannot review it.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentMarkGerretsenKingston and the IslandsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0905)[English] Well, that's what he just said. That's what “or” means.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole HarbourOlivierChampagneMr.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0905)[English]We can go ahead and vote. He's just clarified my concern, that's all.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0905)[English]I will give unanimous consent. This is a matter that I raised when the Liberals asked for one provision only to be changed from “environment” to “sustainable development”. I had said that's a problem because the language I had used was consistent with the rest of the act. It would have been a good opportunity to change it all.I will give unanimous consent on one condition, that the committee agrees to adopt just one part of one of my amendments. That is the amendment in clause 3—C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0905)[English]Let me put it on the record. C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0910)[English]Neither is this change. That's why you need unanimous consent. C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0910)[English]I would like to speak to this request.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0910)[English]They can refuse it. The Liberals are asking for unanimous consent to go back in the bill. I'm asking for their agreement, if I agree with that, that they will also agree to go back in the bill for something I'm requesting. C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMarkGerretsenKingston and the Islands//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0910)[English]We'll vote on this, and then you agree to....C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0910)[English] May I just ask where this came from?C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0910)[English][Inaudible—Editor] know where it came from?C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and AddingtonMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0910)[English]Now that we've agreed that we can go back in the bill, I would like to go back to one part of the 13 amendments that I brought forward. The specific amendment that I would like the parties at the table, the individuals at the table, to reconsider is NDP-2. That's on page 3 of the bill.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0910)[English]It's adding after line 11, on page 3.... If you go to NDP-2 and look at my amendment, you'll see that I had recommended adding:the principle of environmental justice, which is the principle that environmental impacts should be equitably distributed among all Canadians; andThe reason I've decided to revisit this is not just because it was recommended by the committee in our review, and recommended by witnesses to our committee, but because it's consistent with what our committee has recommended for revision of CEPA. I would like the committee to rethink this and see if they would agree to that one small part of one of my amendments...to also include that principle of environmental justice.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]I'd just add that it was my mistake that when I tabled all of NDP-2, I did not explain each one of those provisions in our discussion. I'm simply asking unanimous consent to reconsider that. I have given the argument for including environmental justice. First of all, we have to agree that we're willing to reconsider it.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English] Wait just a second.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]I don't think you want to pass that yet.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]The Liberals actually want to change the schedule and you've just voted to accept it as it is.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]Yes. It says, “The schedule to the Act is replaced by the schedule set out in the schedule to this Act.”You've just voted to accept 1, 2, and 3. I think that's the place where the Liberals want to bring their amendment.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]It's just three points and it doesn't include the National Capital Commission.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]That's the provision that adopts the schedule.C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanMikeBossioHastings—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0915)[English]It seems good to me.(Clauses 11 to 13 inclusive agreed to)C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development ActClause-by-clause studyGovernment accountabilityGovernment billsSustainable developmentDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0930)[English]It's easy for me.DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0930)[English]Can't we discuss that without having it dictated?DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0930)[English]Right. I see no reason for us only going to two. I've been to Globe—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0930)[English]We can do whatever we want.MarkGerretsenKingston and the IslandsDarrenFisherDartmouth—Cole Harbour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35873LindaDuncanLinda-DuncanEdmonton StrathconaNew Democratic Party CaucusAlberta//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DuncanLinda_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Linda Duncan: (0930)[English]Frankly, I disagree. I don't see any reason why the analyst has to record the sessions we go to. I trust that my colleagues will take notes of interesting information. I mean, it's not like we're amending legislation. We're going to gather information. That's going to severely limit us in what we can attend. It may well be that we agree a couple are key. Frankly, what I would like us to do is.... We haven't even had a discussion yet on what is the purpose and focus beyond looking at clean energy. That will help us to decide—DeborahSchulteKing—VaughanDeborahSchulteKing—VaughanINTERVENTIONParliament and SessionDiscussed TopicProcedural TermCommitteePerson SpeakingProvince / TerritoryCaucusParticipation TypeSearchResults per pageOrder byTarget search languageSide by SideMaximum returned rowsPagePUBLICATION TYPE