Interventions in Committee
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View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, witnesses, for being here.
Mr. Boucher, I was intrigued by your opening comments on the Canadian Centre for Cyber Security being the national authority on cybersecurity and leading the government's response to cybersecurity events:
As Canada's national...security incident response team, the Cyber Centre works in close collaboration with government departments, critical infrastructure, Canadian businesses, and international partners to prepare for, respond to, mitigate, and recover from cyber incidents.
That's fantastic. It also leads to this question by me: What standards or measures do we have in place now? We consider banking in Canada to be a critical infrastructure in this country. What standards are in place at this moment to ensure that those are met? Do we have incentives? Do we have penalties? Do we have anything in the way of ensuring that we have a uniform approach across the industry to make sure that Canadians are safe? It's Canadians we are here for and are serving in that capacity. I'm curious to know if we have a mandatory baseline that everybody needs to operate at. If we don't, how come? And how can we?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
Approximately 2.9 million entities, individuals and Canadian businesses, are impacted by this particular occurrence, but millions of others across this country have also been victims of having their identities and credit card information stolen. They may not find solace in that particular statement that we have a mature banking industry in this country, because they continue to be victimized. I'm curious to know whether we are as vigorous in that way as we could or should be in pursuing the financial security of those institutions and of the people who put their trust in them.
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
Okay. Thank you.
Chief Superintendent Flynn, as we've learned from this circumstance and from others, data is the hottest commodity on the dark web. We know that. People's names, addresses, dates of birth, social insurance numbers, IP addresses, email addresses—all those sorts of things are commodities that are traded at will on the web. I guess a couple of things come to mind for me. Can you help the Canadian public understand, number one, how that information is used by the criminal element, and number two, how they can then be vigilant? You answered Mr. Drouin partially with a response, but as the law enforcement agency in this country, what red flags or alarms could you make the Canadian public aware of that they need to be vigilant about if they've been compromised, and even before they become compromised?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
Thank you, Chair.
Again, thank you to the departmental officials for being here.
I have just two quick questions for the Department of Finance. You say that your first objective is to prevent data breaches. We know the reality is that these happen and are not localized to the financial sector.
Ms. Ryan, you said that when cybe events occur at a federally regulated institution, which is what we're talking about, control and oversight mechanisms are in place to manage them. Can you explain to Canadians in practical terms what that actually means when you play that out?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
Basically, it's just oversight. Now, in this particular circumstance, it's oversight of what's happened to make sure that—
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
Okay, so that's one question. The other question is for Ms. Ryan, or whoever might....
I'm just going to read the summary that you gave. You said that “cybersecurity is an area of critical importance for the Department of Finance. We are actively working with partners across government and the private sector to ensure that Canadians are well-protected from cybe -incidents and that when incidents do occur, they're managed in a way that mitigates the impact on consumers and the financial sector as a whole.”
What does that actually look like to impacted consumers, to consumers at large, to the financial institution, to the banking industry, to various government departments? You can say that, but what does it actually look like?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
I have just one quick follow-up question to that. If I were one of the 2.9 million Canadians impacted by this circumstance, or one of the millions in this country who have already been impacted by data breaches of various varieties, I would want assistance in getting my life back, like them. Right now there is a lot of talk about what that looks like, but in practical terms, Canadians want to know how to get their lives back. They want to mitigate the risks and the impacts that a breach like this has on their personal lives, on their financial futures and on those of their families.
I'm curious; it seems that the Department of Finance has a role to play in having a location from which Canadians can find the information they need, follow a template, call numbers, or whatever it may be to help get their lives in order, because this is, and will be, devastating to those whom these criminals are going to take advantage of.
As government, we have a responsibility to ensure that we protect Canadians as well as we can. This is not going to go away.
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you for being here, gentlemen.
If we're to believe the information that we received, approximately 200,000 Canadians outside of Quebec have been impacted by this particular situation. Do you know about how many in each province were impacted?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
Okay.
You mentioned that you purchased State Farm in 2015. You're saying that none of them are impacted.
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
In 2017 you created Aviso Wealth. That was the combination of a merged Credential Financial, Qtrade Canada and NEI Investments. Those all merged.
Mr. Denis Berthiaume: That's correct.
Mr. Glen Motz: Were any of those impacted?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
What about previous Desjardins clients whose accounts were closed? Has any of their data been impacted?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
They used to be clients. Do you still store their data even though they are no longer clients? Was any of that data compromised?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
Just to be clear, if you do not have an active account with Desjardins, you have not been impacted by this data breach. Is that what I'm hearing you say?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
It doesn't really answer my question. If I'm hearing you correctly, you have to have an active account with Desjardins to have been impacted by this data breach. Is that a yes or a no?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
That's what I asked previously.
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
I'm not worried about the letter because Canadians don't care about the letter. They want to know, if I am a current member, is it yes or no? The answer is yes. Current or former clients could be impacted.
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
In 2018, Desjardins Ontario merged with about 11 Ontario credit unions, if I remember correctly. Would any of those potential clients be impacted by this data breach?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
In 2013 the Desjardins Group purchased insurance firms out west, particularly Coast Capital Insurance in B.C., First Insurance in B.C., Craig Insurance in Alberta, and Melfort Agencies and Prestige Insurance in Saskatchewan.
Would any of these clients be impacted by the Desjardins data breach?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
Could the phones of clients who use Apple Pay or Android Pay as part of their banking practices be compromised by this data breach, and are they at higher risk for any fraudulent texts that could occur as a result of this?
View Glen Motz Profile
CPC (AB)
I'll share my time with Mr.—
View Amarjeet Sohi Profile
Lib. (AB)
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good afternoon, everyone.
I first of all want to acknowledge something that is on everyone's mind today, which is the passing of a colleague and a friend to many. On behalf of our government and my family, I want to extend my deepest condolences to the family of Mark Warawa, my colleague, and to our colleagues from the Conservative Party and many others who have lost a friend today.
I would also like to take a moment to recognize that I am speaking to you from Treaty No. 7 territory. Such acknowledgements are important, particularly when we are meeting to talk about doing resource development the right way. Our government's approach to the Trans Mountain expansion project and the start of the construction season is a great example of that—of resource development done right.
Let me also begin by recognizing that I know this expansion project inspires strong opinions on both sides—for and against—and with respect to both sides of the debate, I want to assure everyone that our government took the time required to do the hard work necessary to hear all voices, to consider all evidence and to be able to follow the guidance we received from the Federal Court of Appeal last August.
That included asking the National Energy Board to reconsider its recommendation, taking into account the environmental impact of project-related marine shipping. It also included relaunching phase III consultations with indigenous groups potentially impacted by the project, by doing things differently and engaging in a meaningful two-way dialogue.
On that note, I would like to take a moment to sincerely thank the many indigenous communities that welcomed me into their communities for meetings over the last several months. I appreciate your openness, your honesty and your constructive ideas and sincerity of views.
Honourable members, no matter where you stand on TMX, this decision is a positive step forward for all Canadians. It shows how in 2019, good projects can move forward when we do the hard work necessary to meet our duty to consult indigenous peoples and when we take concrete action to protect the environment for our kids, grandkids and future generations.
When we came into office, we took immediate steps to fix the broken review system the Conservatives left behind. When the risks made it too difficult for the private sector to move forward, we stepped in to save the project. When the Federal Court of Appeal made its decision back in August of 2018, we made the choice to move forward in the right way.
When we finished this process, we were able to come to the right decision to deliver for workers in our energy sector, for Albertans and for all Canadians, a decision to support a project that will create jobs, diversify markets, support clean energy and open up new avenues for indigenous economic prosperity in the process.
Where do we go from here, now that the expansion has been approved? While these are still early days, we have a clear path forward for construction to begin this season and beyond. The Prime Minister laid out a lot of this on Tuesday afternoon as he announced our decision. Minister Morneau expanded on some of these details when he was in Calgary yesterday, talking about the road ahead and about launching exploratory discussions with indigenous groups interested in economic participation and about using TMX's revenues to ensure Canada is a leader in providing more energy choices.
We have also heard from the Trans Mountain Corporation about both its readiness and its ambition to get started on construction. Ian Anderson, the CEO of the Trans Mountain Corporation, made this very clear yesterday.
That's also what I heard when I visited with Trans Mountain Corporation workers yesterday in Edmonton. There were a number of contractors there. They are ready to proceed on the expansion of the Edmonton terminal, as well as on many of the pumping stations that are required to be built in this expansion.
The message is clear. We want to get shovels in the ground this season, while continuing to do things differently in the right way.
The NEB will soon issue an amended certificate of public convenience and necessity for the project. It will also ensure that TMC has met the NEB's binding pre-construction conditions. The Trans Mountain Corporation, meanwhile, will continue to advance its applications for municipal, provincial and federal permits. We stand ready to get the federal permits moving.
As all of that is happening, our government continues to consult with indigenous groups, building and expanding our dialogue with indigenous groups as part of phase IV consultations by discussing the potential impacts of the regulatory process on aboriginal and treaty rights and by working with indigenous groups to implement the eight accommodation measures that were co-developed during consultations, including building marine response capacity, restoring fish and fish habitats, enhancing spill prevention, monitoring cumulative effects and conducting further land studies.
We are also moving forward with the NEB's 16 recommendations for enhancing marine safety, protecting species at risk, improving how shipping is managed and boosting emergency response.
What is the bottom line? There is no doubt that there are a lot of moving parts. This is a project that stretches over 1,000 kilometres, but it is moving forward in the right way, as we have already proven with our $1.5-billion oceans protection plan, our $167-million whale initiative, our additional $61.5 million to protect the southern resident killer whale, and our investment of all of the new corporate tax revenues, as well as profits earned from the sale of TMX, in the clean energy projects that will power our homes, businesses and communities for generations to come.
Before making a decision, we needed to be satisfied that we had met our constitutional obligations, including our legal duty to consult with indigenous groups potentially affected by the project, upholding the honour of the Crown and addressing the issues identified by the Federal Court of Appeal last summer.
We have done that. We accomplished this by doing the hard work required by the court, not by invoking sections of the Constitution that don't apply or by launching fruitless appeals, both of which would have taken longer than the process we brought in.
While Conservatives were focused on making up solutions that wouldn't work, we focused on moving this process forward in the right way. We have confirmation of that, including from the Honourable Frank Iacobucci, former Supreme Court justice, who was appointed as a federal representative to provide us with oversight and direction on the revised consultation and accommodation process.
I will close where I began, which is by saying that we have done the hard work necessary to move forward on TMX in the right way, proving that Canada can get good resource projects approved and that we can grow the economy and deliver our natural resources to international markets to support workers, their families and their communities, all while safeguarding the environment, investing in clean growth and advancing reconciliation with indigenous peoples.
Mr. Chair, I think this is a good place to stop and invite questions.
Thank you so much once again for having me here today.
View Kent Hehr Profile
Lib. (AB)
Just prior to my asking questions of the minister, I'd like to applaud the chair for his exceptional work and leadership for this committee. You've done excellent work.
Some hon. members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Kent Hehr: Minister, it's a thrill to have you back. I was in Calgary yesterday for Minister Morneau's presentation and his address to the Economic Club of Canada in Calgary. The excitement was present in the air, and there was a hop in the step of people in the room, which was good to see.
I think it's fair to say that last year's Federal Court of Appeal decision came somewhat out of the blue. The court said—and it was clear—that we needed to do our indigenous consultation better and our environmental considerations better.
I was chatting with Hannah Wilson in my office this morning, and I learned that this is happening not only here in Canada but also in the United States. In the case of Keystone XL, Enbridge Line 3 and other energy projects around the United States, the courts have been clear that this is the way things need to be done. Our government is trying to see that through, with indigenous consultation and environmental protections being at the forefront.
What was done differently this time, in consideration of the court decision that we were working with?
View Amarjeet Sohi Profile
Lib. (AB)
The process we put in place this time was quite different from what was done in past consultations.
First of all, we co-developed the engagement process with input from indigenous communities. We provided proper training to our staff and we doubled the capacity of our consultation teams. They worked tirelessly to engage in a meaningful two-way dialogue.
We also provided participation funding to indigenous communities so they could properly participate in the consultation process. We held more meetings and we met with indigenous communities in their communities. I personally held 45 meetings with indigenous communities and met with more than 65 leaders to listen to and engage with their concerns.
I am very proud of the outcome. We are offering accommodations to indigenous communities to deal with their concerns over fish, fish habitat, protection of cultural sites and burial grounds, as well as issues related to oil spills, the health of the Salish Sea, the southern resident killer whales, underwater noise and many others.
The accommodations we are offering, Mr. Chair, actually go beyond mitigating the impact of this project and will also go a long way toward resolving some of the issues and repairing some of the damage that has been done through industrial development in the Salish Sea. They will respond to many of the outstanding issues that communities have identified, related not only to this project but also to many of the other cumulative effects of the development that communities have experienced.
View Kent Hehr Profile
Lib. (AB)
Thank you for that, Minister.
The Trans Mountain Pipeline is important to Calgarians. In fact, it's in the public interest. It not only provides jobs for Albertans but also provides us an opportunity to get fair prices for our oil. None of that is possible without shovels being in the ground, so to speak. What steps must take place before that can happen? Will shovels be in the ground this construction season?
View Amarjeet Sohi Profile
Lib. (AB)
Mr. Chair, as I said in my opening remarks, the National Energy Board will issue the certificate in the next couple of days. I was in Edmonton and had a chance to meet with workers and some of the contractors. They're ready to get down to work and they're preparing some of the work that does not require regulatory approval. The company can start mobilizing the contractors and subcontractors. They can start mobilizing their workers. They can start bidding for reconstruction work that is necessary and they can start applying for permits.
As we heard from the Trans Mountain Corporation, they're planning to put shovels in the ground by September. The goal is to complete the construction by mid-2022 so that we can start flowing the oil to markets beyond the United States.
It is very important, Mr. Chair, to understand that 99% of the oil we sell to the outside world goes to one customer, which is the United States. It is a very important customer for us. We need to expand our market with them, but we need to have more customers than one, because we are selling our oil at a discount and losing a lot of money. Over the last number of decades, the situation has remained the same. We want to make sure that this situation changes. That is why getting this project moving forward in the right way and starting construction is very important, not only to Alberta workers but also to all Canadians.
View Kent Hehr Profile
Lib. (AB)
Part of the approval of the pipeline was deeply linked to meaningful consultation with indigenous peoples. Are there ways we are ensuring that indigenous peoples meaningfully benefit from Trans Mountain in terms of jobs and other opportunities?
Also, I've heard some exciting things around possible equity stakes. Can you inform us about any of those conversations?
View Amarjeet Sohi Profile
Lib. (AB)
Yes, and a large number of indigenous communities have signed benefit agreements with the company. Those amount to close to $400 million of economic opportunities for indigenous communities. There are other communities that are still in discussions about economic benefits.
As Minister Morneau stated here in Calgary, he is launching a process whereby indigenous communities can explore options to purchase the pipeline or make other financial arrangements. This is something that I have personally heard, Mr. Chair, from a large number of communities that are interested in seeking economic opportunities for their communities to benefit from resource development. We see a lot of potential in that, and Minister Morneau is going to be leading that. Ownership by indigenous communities could be 25% or 50% or even 100%.
We are also providing funding for indigenous communities so that they'll be ready to participate in that process.
View Shannon Stubbs Profile
CPC (AB)
View Shannon Stubbs Profile
2019-06-20 16:23
Thank you, Chair. I too want to express that I've really enjoyed working with you and with all the members of this committee over the past four years.
Thank you, Minister, for joining us in committee today in response to my request, through a motion that was supported here, to give some concrete details about the Trans Mountain expansion, which your government has approved formally for the second time now in two and a half years.
I want to start with something you mentioned. The backgrounder indicated, and you have just stated as well, that the government-owned Trans Mountain Corporation is required to seek approvals from the National Energy Board for construction and continued operation. I understand there will be several hearings required by the NEB in relation to the route of the pipeline before construction can start. Can you tell us exactly what the timeline will be for those hearings?
View Amarjeet Sohi Profile
Lib. (AB)
As many of us will remember, the National Energy Board imposed a number of conditions on this project. Trans Mountain Corporation, like any other private company, would have to comply with those conditions and respond to the NEB, and would need to apply for those permits. As you heard from CEO Ian Anderson, they are putting a process in place to work with the NEB to get those permits issued in an expedited way. The construction is supposed to be starting in mid-September.
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