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Alan Okros
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Alan Okros
2019-05-28 8:46
Thank you.
Madam Chair and honourable members,
I'll be giving my statement in English.
I thank you for the opportunity to speak on the important topic of the employment of women in the Canadian Armed Forces. As background, my experience with changes in the employment of women in the CAF started in 1978. I have been conducting research, contributing to policy development, monitoring evolutions and teaching on gender in the military at the Canadian Forces College since.
I interpret that the current study is informed by the objectives of the original royal commission to ensure the full participation of women in all aspects of Canadian society. In this case, it is to set the conditions to enable women to make an optimum contribution to delivering defence and security for Canadians.
I'll start with changes in the CAF over time to inform the current context. Faced with the six recommendations for the CAF in the 1970 royal commission report, the 1970s and 1980s was a period of denial and resistance by many, but not all, in uniform. A number of men could not envision women as able to perform core operational roles. A narrative was constructed that accentuated gender differences. All men could leap a tall building in a single bound; no women could climb a flight of stairs.
While no longer widely held, the focus on male supremacy still echoes in parts of the CAF. The 1990s and the early 2000s saw a shift to grudging tolerance and eventual acceptance but with women constantly on trial. Poor performance by a man could be ignored or excused while that by a women could be met with dismissal. We knew she couldn't cut it.
With the intensive operations conducted in Afghanistan, the Horn of Africa and elsewhere, the evolution since 2005 was seen by many as full acceptance. Women have been there, done that and earned the T-shirt and the medals. This has come, however, with a new narrative that replaced the constructed gender differences with the belief that the CAF is gender neutral. A common phrase is, “I don't see gender. I don't hear accents. I don't see colour. I just see soldiers, and they all compete on a level field”. The CAF is not gender neutral, and the field is not level.
Women have demonstrated very capably that they can perform military roles in ways that earn the respect of their male superiors, peers and subordinates, but most do so by adopting highly masculine behaviours and, for some, masculine world views, attitudes and values. This is no surprise as the military engages in very intentional processes to convert the civilian into the soldier, sailor, aviator, leader, commander. The challenge is that what is produced is highly masculinized. The CAF is just now beginning to ask at what cost.
In what ways are women, men and others prevented from making an optimum contribution when they are socialized into one specific way of thinking and acting?
I'll now turn to Operation Honour and harassment of women with two initial comments. First, I cannot see another organization in Canada or the military internationally doing more than the CAF. The challenge is, it's still not enough. Second, it's complicated. There are a number of reasons why women, some men, LGB individuals and non-binary folk are subject to unwanted and unprofessional behaviours. The efforts you have been briefed on by CAF leaders are all necessary actions, but the CAF has yet to really tackle two key factors.
The first is that the military is a very judgmental profession. Individuals judge each other constantly and for good reason. They want to know that those around them will have their back when the brown stuff hits the rotating object, but this becomes problematic when excuses are made for men who trip in mud puddles but, as you have heard, not for women or other non-conforming people.
Second, as part of this process of constantly judging, the military creates very clear social hierarchies indicating who is the most important and who is the least. CAF is not alone here. The order of seating in committee rooms serves the same purpose. The key issue is that this pecking order is established and policed through the use of social power. Research has clearly demonstrated that many, not all, cases of harassment are about power. Labelling actions as sexual misconduct is misleading.
If I hit you with a shovel, you wouldn't call it gardening.
The challenge for CAF members is to thread the needle where all still have confidence in the capability of their peers—everybody has to measure up—and where those who are given power—some still need power—know how to use it properly, while removing the risk that judgmental assessments and constructed power are used to marginalize women or others who don't fit the hyper-masculine norm.
A number of researchers have suggested that the solution is to amend this norm and allow alternate ways of being seen as an effective military member. This would include shifting from the current focus on normative conformity to practising inclusive leadership.
Finally, I'll return to the comments of General Lawson when Madame Deschamps surprised senior military leaders with her findings. He stated that the CAF had been taking actions and things had been improving since the 1994 Maclean's articles. He was right, but he missed a key point. The expectations of women as to what was and was not acceptable had shifted significantly. We've seen this more broadly in the #MeToo movement. Social expectations will continue to evolve and could result in another sharp break, where tolerated practices suddenly become unacceptable.
This is not just restricted to women. A common phase among young Canadians these days is “check your privilege”. An old phrase among military officers is “RHIP”, which means rank has its privileges. There's a culture clash.
I would conclude that the CAF is going to continue to have to find ways to create the individual and group characteristics needed for operations, while also meeting ongoing evolution in how individuals expect to be treated and how they will expect to be able to contribute to mission success.
I have a short list of recommendations that I will table for the committee's consideration.
Thank you.
Kristine St-Pierre
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Kristine St-Pierre
2019-05-28 9:04
There's been a tremendous effort to raise the number of women as part of the military and as part of the police, but it remains that in order to raise the number of women in peacekeeping, we need to start at home. A big part of the national action plan in Canada....
In terms of the first national action plan, we were very outward-looking: This is what we're going to do in the world when we deploy in other countries. A big part of our advocacy for the second national action plan was to say that we can't just say we're going to do things outward; we have to look internally. In terms of the RCMP and DND, we have to look at our processes. We have to connect the dots in terms of Operation Honour. We have to look at what we're doing internally to make sure that we can have more women as part of the military and then be able to send more women as part of peacekeeping.
View Ron Liepert Profile
CPC (AB)
I'm subbing in for a regular member of this committee, and I wasn't here when the motion was approved. However, the motion seems to focus much more on sexual harassment than the culture of the military, or really any of the forces.
How much is the culture that has been ingrained in the various organizations potentially responsible for the sexual harassment, and if we change the culture, is that going to help change the issues of sexual harassment?
Kristine St-Pierre
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Kristine St-Pierre
2019-05-28 9:10
I truly believe so.
I think the culture is allowing.... I mean, I think it's completely linked. I think there are power dynamics at play. There is a culture of impunity. All of that combined with the need for strict policies is key, and I think leadership is key. When I say leadership, it's really at all levels. They say the same thing, toe the party line, but the party line should be that there's a zero tolerance for this.
Alan Okros
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Alan Okros
2019-05-28 9:11
I fully agree, and yes, there are aspects of the culture that I would suggest need to change.
As I tried to indicate in my comments, the challenge is that the military goes out of its way to create the soldier. With everybody who joins the military, there are three key things that everybody learns. The first is normative conformity; when in doubt do what everybody else is doing. Number two is obedience to authority; do what the boss tells you. Number three is group loyalty—fit into groups. That puts huge pressure on people to fit in and to conform.
There are many individuals—this is part of what I do with the groups coming through Canadian Forces College— who fit that.... When they joined the military, they didn't have to change who they were very much. It was them. There are others who don't.
The military is continuing to try to find ways to help them become like everybody else, rather than changing the culture to say, “You can still be who you are. You can be a military member in a different way than what we're currently doing.”
That, to me, is the central challenge, and I'm not sure that anybody has sorted that out yet.
View Karen Vecchio Profile
CPC (ON)
With approval from the committee, may I ask a question?
We talk a lot about Operation Honour. We've seen the data come back, and the results haven't been fantastic.
What are some of the recommendations you would make to change Operation Honour to make it so it does what it is supposed to do to take away sexual and physical harassment from women?
Alan Okros
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Alan Okros
2019-05-28 9:13
I'll start with a couple of recommendations.
One of the key things in Operation Honour is the duty to report. The challenge with duty to report is that it makes incidents very formal right away. There are individuals who have been on the receiving end of stupid behaviour who don't want it formally reported.
My recommendation is to change that to a “duty to respond”. If somebody were asked, “You were there. You witnessed. You saw something going on that was unprofessional. How did you respond?” It may simply be support. It may be talking with them. That would be one of the issues that I would suggest.
I would also suggest that the military take a very long, hard look at the social events that emphasize alcohol consumption. We know that's part of it. It contributes to it.
I would suggest that it would be beneficial to have professional counselling available to individuals when they're on the receiving end, particularly of sexualized military trauma.
View Sonia Sidhu Profile
Lib. (ON)
Thank you.
Some 27% of the CAF are victims of sexual assault. It's a big number. How are the victim support staff trained?
Professor, what are your thoughts about that?
Alan Okros
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Alan Okros
2019-05-28 9:28
As you have heard, the sexual misconduct response centre has staff who are responsible for providing initial responses and supports to individuals. My understanding is that work is ongoing to move from that which is really a 1-800 number to actually providing some capacity at large bases for face-to-face support, which I think most people would recognize would be important.
So I would suggest at the present time there are some levels of support. I think more can be done, certainly, including in understanding the circumstances that individuals can find themselves in.
Again, we know broadly, particularly when women are on the receiving end of sexual assault, that there's a reluctance to speak up and speak out. There are a number of broad social reasons for that. We know that there are concerns with regard to how peers and family and others are going to respond to the individuals. So I think it's a broader system that we need to look at and that's why one of my comments is about providing psychological counselling to individuals when they first encounter the circumstances, not once they get into formal investigations and hearings, but just dealing with it initially. It's trauma, and I'm not sure that we provide the right support yet for those at early stages of experiencing that type of trauma.
View Eva Nassif Profile
Lib. (QC)
View Eva Nassif Profile
2019-05-28 9:39
According to the results of a 2018 Statistics Canada survey on sexual misconduct in the Canadian Armed Forces, the rate at which incidents were reported went from 28% in 2016 to 30% in 2018. The Canadian Armed Forces has a low reporting rate. What isn't it working? Why do you think the reporting rate hasn't increased more? Are women afraid to report misconduct?
Kristine St-Pierre
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Kristine St-Pierre
2019-05-28 9:40
Mr. Okros could probably answer that better than I could, but I would point to the tremendous stigma that still exists. Those who have successfully filed complaints have had to deal with negative feedback in the media, and that can be a deterrent.
View Eva Nassif Profile
Lib. (QC)
View Eva Nassif Profile
2019-05-28 9:40
It prevents people from reporting misconduct, does it not?
Kristine St-Pierre
View Kristine St-Pierre Profile
Kristine St-Pierre
2019-05-28 9:40
Yes, and it's even tougher in an organization like the armed forces.
Virginia Tattersal
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Virginia Tattersal
2019-05-28 9:46
Madam Chair and committee members, good morning. Thank you for inviting me to speak to you today about the treatment of women in the Department of National Defence, something I have both personal and professional experience with, having been a member of the Canadian Armed Forces for most of my life.
I am Brigadier-General Virginia Tattersall, and until last week, I was the commander of the military personnel generation group. This group, which we in the military like to call MILPERSGEN, is responsible for, among other things, recruiting, training and educating the future of the Canadian Armed Forces. I have some expertise in this area, and I will be happy to answer specific questions about the recruitment of women.
Diversity—and this includes representation of women—is of primary importance to the Canadian Armed Forces. This is not just so that the organization reflects our society—although that is important—but it is also because diversity ensures we are drawing from the entirety of the Canadian talent pool and the richness of thought, capabilities and skills that comes along with it.
Women have served in Canada's military for over a century. It has not always been an easy road, but we, as an institution, continue to improve. As we identify issues, we endeavour to tackle them and find solutions, although perhaps not as expediently as some would like.
Today women and men may serve in any occupation they choose so long as they meet the enrolment criteria, and I'm proud to say we were one of the first military forces in the world to allow women to serve in all occupations.
Why do women join the military? For the same reasons as men—the chance to serve their country; to have a respected, challenging and rewarding profession with good pay and benefits; and friendships that last a lifetime.
As you are aware, we have an institutional goal to have women make up at least 25.1% of the Canadian Armed Forces by 2026. It is an ambitious target, and we are making progress. As of January 2019 there were 1,316 more women in the Canadian Armed Forces compared with 2015.
The CAF recruiting strategy for women focuses on raising awareness of career opportunities. This is done through engagement in outreach, advertising, job postings, media partnerships, social media and individual recruiter efforts. National Defence has undertaken of late a number of specific initiatives to increase representation even further, including the Women in Force program—a trial at an experience of what it's like to serve in the military—and our efforts to re-enrol women who have previously released.
Our military colleges are playing a role in recruitment by giving priority to female applicants who meet enrolment standards, with women now making up 19.7% of the officer cadet population this past academic year. Most importantly, we continue through Operation Honour to reinforce respect and inclusivity, and combat negative culture that has subjected women and men to harmful and inappropriate sexual behaviour.
Currently, women are well represented in eight primary occupations, and we continue to work to increase representation across all occupations in the Canadian Armed Forces.
Madam Chair and members of the committee, the Canadian Armed Forces is an organization that recognizes excellence and welcomes all who want to pursue that as their personal goal, and we will continue to recruit and encourage more women to join the force. I am but one example of what a women can accomplish by serving in the Canadian Armed Forces. I would tell you that my own career has been rich with opportunities and experiences. Were I given the chance to do it again, I would not hesitate to do so.
Thank you for your attention. I'm pleased to answer any questions you may have of me.
View Emmanuella Lambropoulos Profile
Lib. (QC)
Hello. I'd like to begin by thanking all of you for being here with us to answer our questions this morning.
I've heard about all of the great things that are happening within the department, but other witnesses have discussed a lot how culture is the main reason for what happens in the armed forces when it comes to how women can sometimes be treated and to sexual harassment and all of that stuff. Is there anything that happens on the ground to change the culture? Are there any programs that are currently in sight to help us get from where we are to a better place for women?
That question is for any of you.
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