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View Ralph Goodale Profile
Lib. (SK)
Mr. Chairman, thank you for your very kind remarks. They are much appreciated, and I'm glad to be back with the committee once again, this time, of course, presenting the 2019-20 main estimates for the public safety portfolio.
To help explain all of those numbers in more detail and to answer your questions today, I am pleased to be joined by Gina Wilson, the new deputy minister of Public Safety Canada. I believe this is her first appearance before this committee. She is no stranger, of course, in the Department of Public Safety, but she has been, for the last couple of years, the deputy minister in the Department for Women and Gender Equality, a department she presided over the creation of.
With the deputy minister today, we have Brian Brennan, deputy commissioner of the RCMP; David Vigneault, director of CSIS; John Ossowski, president of CBSA; Anne Kelly, commissioner of the Correctional Service of Canada; and Anik Lapointe, chief financial officer for the Parole Board of Canada.
The top priority of any government, Mr. Chair, is to keep its citizens safe and secure, and I'm very proud of the tremendous work that is being done by these officials and the employees who work following their lead diligently to serve Canadians and protect them from all manner of public threats. The nature and severity of those threats continue to evolve and change over time and, as a government, we are committed to supporting the skilled men and women who work so hard to protect us by giving them the resources they need to ensure that they can respond. The estimates, of course, are the principal vehicle for doing that.
The main estimates for 2019-20 reflect that commitment to keep Canadians safe while safeguarding their rights and freedoms. You will note that, portfolio-wide, the total authorities requested this year would result in a net increase of $256.1 million for this fiscal year, or 2.7% more than last year's main estimates. Of course, some of the figures go up and some go down, but the net result is a 2.7% increase.
One key item is an investment of $135 million in fiscal year 2019-20 for the sustainability and modernization of Canada's border operations. The second is $42 million for Public Safety Canada, the RCMP and CBSA to take action against guns and gangs. Minister Blair will be speaking in much more detail about the work being done under these initiatives when he appears before the committee.
For my part today I will simply summarize several other funding matters affecting my department, Public Safety Canada, and all of the related agencies.
The department is estimating a net spending decrease of $246.8 million this fiscal year, 21.2% less than last year. That is due to a decrease of $410.7 million in funding levels that expired last year under the disaster financial assistance arrangements. There is another item coming later on whereby the number goes up for the future year. You have to offset those two in order to follow the flow of the cash. That rather significant drop in the funding for the department itself, 21.2%, is largely due to that change in the DFAA, for which the funding level expired in 2018-19.
There was also a decrease of some $79 million related to the completion of Canada's presidency of the G7 in the year 2018.
These decreases are partially offset by a number of funding increases, including a $25-million grant to Avalanche Canada to support its life-saving safety and awareness efforts; $14.9 million for infrastructure projects related to security in indigenous communities; $10.1 million in additional funding for the first nations policing program; and $3.3 million to address post-traumatic stress injuries affecting our skilled public safety personnel.
The main estimates also reflect measures announced a few weeks ago in budget 2019. For Public Safety Canada, that is, the department, these include $158.5 million to improve our ability to prepare for and respond to emergencies and natural disasters in Canada, including in indigenous communities, of which $155 million partially offsets that reduction in DFAA that I just referred to.
There's also $4.4 million to combat the truly heinous and growing crime of child sexual exploitation online.
There is $2 million for the security infrastructure program to continue to help communities at risk of hate-motivated crime to improve their security infrastructure.
There is $2 million to support efforts to assess and respond to economic-based national security threats, and there's $1.8 million to support a new cybersecurity framework to protect Canada's critical infrastructure, including in the finance, telecommunications, energy and transport sectors.
As you know, in the 2019 federal budget, we also announced $65 million as a one-time capital investment in the STARS air rescue system to acquire new emergency helicopters. That important investment does not appear in the 2019-20 main estimates because it was accounted for in the 2018-19 fiscal year, that is, before this past March 31.
Let me turn now to the 2019-20 main estimates for the other public safety portfolio organizations, other than the department itself.
I'll start with CBSA, which is seeking a total net increase this fiscal year of $316.9 million. That's 17.5% over the 2018-19 estimates. In addition to that large sustainability and modernization for border operations item that I previously mentioned, some other notable increases include $10.7 million to support activities related to the immigration levels plan that was announced for the three years 2018 to 2020. Those things include security screening, identity verification, the processing of permanent residents when they arrive at the border and so forth—all the responsibilities of CBSA.
There's an item for $10.3 million for the CBSA's postal modernization initiative, which is critically important at the border. There is $7.2 million to expand safe examination sites, increase intelligence and risk assessment capacity and enhance the detector dog program to give our officers the tools they need to combat Canada's ongoing opioid crisis.
There's also approximately $100 million for compensation and employee benefit plans related to collective bargaining agreements.
Budget 2019 investments affecting CBSA main estimates this year include a total of $381.8 million over five years to enhance the integrity of Canada's borders and the asylum system. While my colleague Minister Blair will provide more details on this, the CBSA would be receiving $106.3 million of that funding in this fiscal year.
Budget 2019 also includes $12.9 million to ensure that immigration and border officials have the resources to process a growing number of applications for Canadian visitor visas and work and study permits.
There is $5.6 million to increase the number of detector dogs deployed across the country in order to protect Canada's hog farmers and meat processors from the serious economic threat posed by African swine fever.
Also, there's $1.5 million to protect people from unscrupulous immigration consultants by improving oversight and strengthening compliance and enforcement measures.
I would also note that the government announced through the budget its intention to introduce the legislation necessary to expand the role of the RCMP's Civilian Review and Complaints Commission so it can also serve as an independent review body for CBSA. That proposed legislation, Bill C-98, was introduced in the House last month.
I will turn now to the RCMP. Its estimates for 2019-20 reflect a $9.2-million increase over last year's funding levels. The main factors contributing to that change include increases of $32.8 million to compensate members injured in the performance of their duties, $26.6 million for the initiative to ensure security and prosperity in the digital age, and $10.4 million for forensic toxicology in Canada's new drug-impaired driving regime.
The RCMP's main estimates also reflect an additional $123 million related to budget 2019, including $96.2 million to strengthen the RCMP's overall policing operations, and $3.3 million to ensure that air travellers and workers at airports are effectively screened on site. The increases in funding to the RCMP are offset by certain decreases in the 2019-20 main estimates, including $132 million related to the completion of Canada's G7 presidency in 2018 and $51.7 million related to sunsetting capital infrastructure projects.
I will now move to the Correctional Service of Canada. It is seeking an increase of $136 million, or 5.6%, over last year's estimates. The two main factors contributing to the change are a $32.5-million increase in the care and custody program, most of which, $27.6 million, is for employee compensation, and $95 million announced in budget 2019 to support CSC's custodial operations.
The Parole Board of Canada is estimating a decrease of approximately $700,000 in these main estimates or 1.6% less than the amount requested last year. That's due to one-time funding received last year to assist with negotiated salary adjustments. There is also, of course, information in the estimates about the Office of the Correctional Investigator, CSIS and other agencies that are part of my portfolio. I simply make the point that this is a very busy portfolio and the people who work within Public Safety Canada and all the related agencies carry a huge load of public responsibilities in the interests of public safety. They always put public safety first while at the same time ensuring that the rights and freedoms of Canadians are properly protected.
With that, Mr. Chair, my colleagues and I would be happy to try to answer your questions.
View Karen Vecchio Profile
CPC (ON)
Excellent. Thank you very much.
We're now going to start the second round. With your consent, I'm going to ask some questions.
Within RMC, Alan, what is the protocol, the process, if there is a sexual harassment or a sexual assault case?
Alan Okros
View Alan Okros Profile
Alan Okros
2019-05-28 9:30
My teaching is done at Canadian Forces College, not at the Royal Military College.
I am aware, yes, that there are protocols that have been developed and established specifically for the cadet body, based on certain issues. You heard Julie Lalonde talk about her experiences there. I don't have the specific details of how that is dealt with.
View Karen Vecchio Profile
CPC (ON)
Are you familiar with it? It's still in the chain of command that we're hearing...when people are actually and they.... It's the same type of process.
Lianna McDonald
View Lianna McDonald Profile
Lianna McDonald
2019-02-07 8:48
Thank you very much. Good morning, everyone.
Mr. Chairperson and distinguished members of the committee, we thank you for giving us this opportunity to provide a presentation on Bill C-84.
My name is Lianna McDonald. I am the Executive Director of the Canadian Centre for Child Protection. Again, joining me is Monique St. Germain. She's our General Counsel.
We are here this morning to express our agency's strong support for the bill and to speak specifically about the offence of bestiality.
We have had the opportunity to listen to many of the proceedings so far. We will provide some different information for the committee to consider, coming from the unique lens that our organization has, tied to crimes against children. We will provide examples of what we have seen in real images and in case law.
Our organization is a national charitable organization dedicated to the personal safety of all children. We have been doing this important work for over 30 years.
Our agency operates cybertip.ca, which is Canada's national tip line to report the online sexual abuse and exploitation of children. The tip line is a central part of the Government of Canada's national strategy for the protection of children from sexual abuse and exploitation.
Cybertip launched 16 years ago. Its primary role is to receive and analyze reports on potentially illegal material or activities regarding online crimes against children. It is through this work that our agency witnesses first-hand the ways in which children are being sexually victimized. Since its inception, the tip line has processed over 400,000 reports, and the number of reports has increased steadily over the years. The tip line is now processing, on average, 10,000 reports a month.
To combat the growing online proliferation of child sexual abuse material, our organization developed a new tool called Project Arachnid. This automated crawler and platform helps reduce the online availability of child sexual abuse material, breaking the cycle of abuse. Through Project Arachnid, over 1.6 million notices have been sent to social media and content providers hosting this egregious material around the world.
The vast majority of the images seen through the tip line depict very young prepubescent children, many of whom are preverbal and cannot tell anyone about the abuse. We also know that most children who appear in the sexual abuse material have never been identified by law enforcement.
In 2016, we conducted an analysis of over 40,000 unique images and videos classified by the tip line as child pornography, and 50% of the images involved explicit sexual activity and extreme sexual assaults against children. Among the extreme acts were those involving bestiality. Over a five-year period, Cybertip assessed 192 different sex acts involving an animal and a child, and 80% of those acts did not involve penetration. Oral sex acts were the most commonly seen, in 55% of the bestiality images.
You have already heard from a prior witness that bestiality content along with sadistic material is considered the most harmful form of child sexual abuse material. The following two examples provide a lens into the stark reality of what bestiality looks like when children are involved. While these examples may be difficult to hear, they are harder to see and worse to endure.
In the first example a young girl around eight years old is sitting on a blanket beneath an animal. The image is focused on her and she's completely naked. The girl has one hand around the animal's penis and her mouth around the other end of the penis. In the second example yet another young girl is laying on a bed with her arms behind her head, her legs are spread open and a dog is appearing to lick her genital area.
To better understand the unique challenges faced by survivors of child sexual abuse material, our agency conducted an international online survey. The results were released in 2017 and were based on responses from 150 survivors from around the world. While we did not ask specifically about bestiality, a number of survivors told us their abuser threatened to harm pets or other animals in their life as part of the abuse. To quote from one survivor, “They killed my pets, which they gave to me as a present beforehand in order to make me compliant.” Another survivor said, “I was deeply ashamed. And I had also abused other children/animals myself and was afraid I'd go to prison if it were discovered.”
What was clear from the survey was that all survivors of child sexual abuse imagery face lifelong impacts from having their abuse recorded.
The sexual abuse is horrible in and of itself, but when the abuse includes forcing a child to participate in a sexual act with an animal, the trauma to the child is compounded.
Cybertip also receives reports on online luring. For example, last year the tip line received a report about a young teenager who had been communicating online with an individual. This individual not only asked the child for nude images but also directed the child to engage in digital penetration of the family pet. This is just one of the many examples of the ways in which technology is being used and misused to manipulate and coerce children.
People who seek to victimize children and animals do not limit themselves to acts of penetration, as defined in R. v. D.L.W. With the rate at which we are finding new child sexual abuse material, we know that this is a problem, one that is likely growing. Until the law is changed, children and animals are vulnerable to sexual abuse and exploitation.
Thank you.
My colleague Monique has a few comments to make.
Monique St. Germain
View Monique St. Germain Profile
Monique St. Germain
2019-02-07 8:55
Thank you, Lianna.
Thank you, Mr. Chairperson and distinguished members of the committee, for the opportunity to speak today.
Immediately following the D.L.W. decision, our agency undertook legal research to learn more about the cases involving bestiality that have been through the Canadian court system. We limited our research to reported criminal case law, given that D.L.W. was a criminal case.
The key takeaway from the research is that non-penetrative activity was more common in the cases that we reviewed, especially when a child was involved. We were struck by the severity of the cases that we found and by the role technology is increasingly playing in facilitating this type of offending.
One thing to highlight is the difficulty we experienced in obtaining details of the offence. Many of us will shy away from discussing this topic. From the cases we reviewed, this includes judges when they're writing their decisions.
To give you an example, in 2016, a dangerous offender hearing was held in Ontario pertaining to Shayne Lund. Lund's offending spanned almost a decade. By the time he was caught, there were several human and animal victims. Despite that, and even though the case was prosecuted after the D.L.W. decision, very little detail about his animal abuse offending was included. The court referred only to sexual offences against animals and instructing young girls to have sexual activity with animals. This is not enough information to understand the true scope of what went on. It is imperative that we learn more about the way in which this type of offending occurs and how it ties in with other offending.
Another case example that arose after D.L.W. is an offender I will refer to as J.D. In October 2018, he pleaded guilty to multiple child pornography-related offences. J.D. had three other co-offenders. A reported decision has been issued for one of those co-offenders; this was his wife. The judgment describes a homemade bestiality video the two of them made with their dog, as follows.
The dog licks Ms. D.M.'s vagina while she masturbates, and Mr. J.D. tells her various acts that he would like to do with the children, including raping their daughter. Ms. D.M. continues to masturbate throughout.
Ms. D.M. was sentenced for four sexual offences, including a “making child pornography charge” that pertained to four videos that show her sexually abusing their 18-month-old son.
Before closing, I will list four reasons that broadening the definition will improve the situation for both children and animals.
First, the bestiality offence, as framed in D.L.W., does not reflect how bestiality is actually happening. Penetration is not the most common activity, nor is it even possible in some instances.
Second, sexual assault laws have been reformed over the years such that penetration has been removed as a requirement from virtually every sexual offence in the Criminal Code except bestiality and incest. It is well accepted that one's sexual integrity can be violated by any non-consensual sexual contact and that penetration is not a requirement.
Third, the definition of bestiality impacts the application of many other provisions in the Criminal Code. All is set out in our paper.
Fourth, the criminal record of a convicted person should reflect the fact that the contact involved a victimized animal. The best way to do this is to have such contact prosecuted under a provision designed for the crime.
In closing, we see the evidence of bestiality through imagery. We know that most of the children we have seen have not been through the criminal justice system and that the scope of this problem is likely much bigger than any of us realizes. We strongly believe that when any form of bestiality is part of a child's abusive experience, it compounds the trauma and is a separate and distinct harm deserving of its own sanction.
Thank you.
Teena Stoddart
View Teena Stoddart Profile
Teena Stoddart
2019-02-07 8:59
Good morning.
My name is Teena Stoddart. I have been a police officer for 28 years. I was a paralegal before that. Currently I'm a sergeant with the Ottawa Police Service and a member of the Canadian Violence Link Coalition. In 2010 I was seconded to the OPP behavioural science section, where I received specialized training in serial predator crime. I received training from the RCMP and the FBI. I have been volunteering with Humane Canada since 2009 and the Ottawa Humane Society for over 15 years.
I will start by advising the committee that police officers get no training on investigations involving animals unless they are or have been attached to a behavioural science section. In some cases, a sexual assault investigator will attend a conference or training, but it is not required or the norm. In Ontario in 2017, there were 25,981 police officers. OPP behavioural science has approximately 25 specialized police officers. The RCMP would have approximately 10. In my estimate, then, less than 1% of police officers in Ontario would have any type of specialized training in animal abuse or the violence link, yet animal abuse is one of the top signs of a serial sexual predator. In November 2018 I facilitated the first violence link training to police officers. It's a start, but we need resources to see this endeavour come to fruition. We need governments to mandate violence link training.
Speaking to the bestiality section of Bill C-84, this legislation needs to include touching an animal for any sexual purpose in order to make our communities safer for all living beings. The International Journal of Law and Psychiatry conducted a research study. They took a random sampling of over 943 incarcerated men. Half of sexual offenders and a third of child molesters committed animal abuse during adolescence. This same study confirmed that childhood sexual assault abusers use animals to lure and/or groom their victims. An example of grooming would be, “I touched the doggy there, so it's okay for you too.” Then they progress to, “You can touch me where you touched the doggy.” It's a desensitizing process used to normalize sexual touch to children.
Sexual predators educate themselves on grooming methods. That's how they get away with the crimes. They have chat groups and do research just like everyone else. Grooming is a means to get the child normalized to the inappropriate feeling of touch on their private parts. That way, when the predator tries to touch the child, it's not foreign for the child to have their private part touched for reasons other than medical or cleaning. The use of peanut butter took place after an attempt to have a dog penetrate failed. The offender searched online for other ways to involve the dog. This was from a Supreme Court of Canada case.
Predators know that in a lot of these cases, there is little law enforcement can do. I'll give you the example of being called to a residence and the mother saying, about her eight-year-old, for instance, “My child tells me that for the last three years Uncle Johnny has tried to get her to fondle the dog.” All we can do at that point is say, “You'd better not have Uncle Johnny come over anymore.” We have no legal recourse. I have consulted Crowns and various people on this issue. It's the same thing if we get called to a park and a mother says an offender was using a dog to lure or groom a child. There's nothing we can do.
Bestiality is not only found in relation to children. Police services also investigate when one partner forces another into posing or committing sexual acts with an animal and takes pictures or videos it. The abusive partner then blackmails the other into staying with them and putting up with the abuse. The vulnerable spouse will not report to police for fear of retaliation. Many research studies have identified that animals are used to control their victims. We just heard Monique St. Germain and Lianna McDonald state that in their research.
Now I'll talk about the animal abuse side of this. Dr. Rebecca Ledger is Canada's leading expert and court-approved expert on animal behaviour. I have worked with her to deliver police training. She's conducted decades of scientific studies of all kinds of animals. I have an email from her stating that “penetration does not need to occur in order for the dog to suffer”. We had an Ottawa case recently where this came up and she gave expert testimony.
Having the Criminal Code bestiality crime as being committed only if there is penetration puts vulnerable citizens at risk from predators. Broadening the bestiality law strengthens community safety for all living beings. I would submit that it have the same sentencing provisions as section 447.1 of the Criminal Code of Canada does for the lifetime prohibition of animals and restitution. Also, it needs to include their being put on a sex offender registry. Right now bestiality does not fall under that provision.
I'll move to the animal fighting part of Bill C-84. Once again, putting in place proper legislation aimed at stopping the heinous crime of dogfighting will give law enforcement a tool to increase community safety by taking away a funding source for gangs and shutting down their venues to move their guns and drugs. It also removes the means for gangs to recruit young people.
Decades of evidence-based research produce findings such as the fact that illegal gambling gains from dogfighting are substantial. One purse can go for more than $200,000. One dogfighting event can host several animal fights. If you have five animal fights in an event, you're looking at $1 million. This study was produced by Michigan State University.
Gangs also use animal fighting events like we use conventions: for networking, recruiting, and to sell and trade guns and drugs. This is also in the Michigan State University study.
The early introduction to animal cruelty through exposure to dogfighting, especially repeated acts, impacts development and has strong links to later interpersonal violence. This was reported in a 2011 study.
To desensitize young people to gang violence, they invite them to dogfights to acclimatize them to violence. Animal fighting is bloody. Because animal cries and pain are recognized as similar to humans, the thick skin starts to materialize so that violence on a human is not so far-fetched. Many of the youth interviewed in the Maher and Pierpoint 2011 study spoke about using the dogs as weapons against both humans and other dogs for rival gangs.
The Chicago Crime Commission conducted a study and found that 82% of those arrested for animal abuse had prior convictions for assault, weapons or drugs, again demonstrating the violence link. In Chicago, 35% of search warrants executed for animal abuse or dogfighting investigations resulted in seizures of illegal drugs and/or weapons. The commission produced an action alert in August 2004 entitled “Reduce animal violence, reduce all violence: A program to amplify human and animal violence prevention and reduction by targeting dogfighting and animal cruelty”.
Last but not least is the irreparable damage done to bait dogs and the animals that are used for fight dogs. Training techniques are used such as electrocution, kicking, punching, stabbing and beating dogs, in addition to withholding vet treatment for injured dogs and forced fighting. Even if these animals are saved, they often have to be euthanized due to aggressive behaviours or medical issues.
The violence link is extremely prevalent in both bestiality and animal fighting. The research is clear. Where you see evidence of animal abuse there's a great probability that humans are or have been abused by the same predator. We strengthen community safety for all living beings by giving law enforcement the tools to deal with these crimes.
All living beings deserve to be free of violence, and if that violence happens to them, they deserve to be protected by laws, police and the judicial system.
Thank you.
View Michael Cooper Profile
CPC (AB)
I think your report made reference to the fact that, in terms of some other sections of the Criminal Code, such as sexual interference, while there is a possibility that an individual could be prosecuted under some of these alternative provisions, it's not ideal, and it's not clear whether someone could be successfully prosecuted. Is that right?
Monique St. Germain
View Monique St. Germain Profile
Monique St. Germain
2019-02-07 9:16
That's correct.
The issue is the word “object”, in both section 151 and section 153, because you need to interpret the dog as an object, which isn't really consistent with the way the law is evolving. Then, there are issues with some of the other provisions, such as corrupting children, in section 172. You need the offence to have occurred in the child's home, and you need the Attorney General's consent, both of which might not apply in a particular circumstance. For the offence of indecent acts, the indecent act has to occur in a public place, and has to be with the intent to insult or offend. For indecent exposure, the person's genitals have to be exposed, in addition to whatever is happening with the animal.
The other one, which the Supreme Court of Canada had not raised, but that we raised in our paper, was the use of section 272, which would be sexual assault with a weapon. In that instance, the animal would have to be qualified as a weapon.
View Fin Donnelly Profile
NDP (BC)
Thank you.
Sergeant Stoddart, in your opinion, will the broadened definition of bestiality help identify and prosecute child abusers?
View Iqra Khalid Profile
Lib. (ON)
Thank you, Chair.
To our witnesses, I really do want to thank you for your very compelling testimony today.
To the Canadian Centre for Child Protection, you spoke very descriptively about some of the situations you deal with, especially when it comes to pornography. My question—I think I would like everybody to comment on this—is, what is the role of reporting on this?
I remember sitting in Montreal while we were doing a study on human trafficking, where we had the opportunity to speak to Montreal law enforcement. They had just done a sting operation where they had posted a picture of a minor. I think it was a 12-year-old. Over 900 people viewed that posting, but nobody bothered to report it to the police.
In terms of animal protection and that violence link between animals and children, how important is reporting?
We'll start with the Canadian Centre for Child Protection, please.
Lianna McDonald
View Lianna McDonald Profile
Lianna McDonald
2019-02-07 9:33
It's very important.
Essentially, the types of reports we would see would involve not only animals but also the abuse of children. We very much rely on the public to come forward. Through the tip line, we do receive those.
The second very important thing, though, is that we see a whole bunch of very egregious material tied to sexual assaults and involving animals, and we don't have those victims identified. We have a very significant problem—an epidemic, essentially—when we look at the number of unidentified victims and children that we see day in and day out within the imagery.
We have public education that's absolutely key to our colleagues in the room, who spoke about investigations and enhancing police training. I think that's absolutely imperative as well. Then, I think, we really have to mobilize the public to do more: to come forward when they start to see these types of activities and report them.
Teena Stoddart
View Teena Stoddart Profile
Teena Stoddart
2019-02-07 9:34
I absolutely agree. Police services need training. We've been working in the Canadian Violation Link Coalition. The coalition has been working very hard to bring that to fruition. I gave a presentation to the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police in November and they are primarily on board with the training. We would like them to come on board with all eight of our objectives that we're working on right now.
To give you an example of how we are not trained, my superintendent attended the 2017 Canadian Violence Link Conference and afterwards he came up to me and he said, “I did not know this stuff”. We have a superintendent of a police service that doesn't know it. His wife works in our sexual assault section and she didn't know it. There's an absolute need. When a victim comes forward, whether it's a child's guardian or a partner assault, they will charge all the human offences but they forget and leave off that.
One of the things that we're doing is that Crown attorney Dallas Mack, who was a longtime dangerous offender application Crown attorney in Ottawa.... We need all these offences, even calls for service, documented properly now because, particularly with gangs and people like that, these offences take place from ages 15 to say 25. The dangerous offender applications don't happen until 10 to 15 years of criminal activity. There's a lot that goes into a dangerous offender application, but if you don't have all those offences and all those calls for service documented properly and the patrol officer is recognizing them when they go to them on the road, which they don't now, then that compromises the dangerous offender applications 10 years down the line. There is an absolute need for training.
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