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Jürgen Rehm
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Jürgen Rehm
2015-05-26 16:41
Thanks a lot for allowing me to present the point of view of the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, the largest hospital for psychiatric illnesses.
I would like to start with a definition of “addiction” since we were asked to talk about addiction. Usually this term comprises substance use disorders, but also more recently it has been expanded to gambling and gaming disorders. For example, the DSM-5 and the current proceedings of the ICD-11 will also include something to that degree.
If you look into those addictions, and we take the full spectrum of addictions, we have to say that alcohol use disorders are the most prevalent of the addictions. There is a question mark here with tobacco use disorders, because they're usually not assessed in general population surveys like the CCHS. If you go into how many people are actually concerned with addictions, alcohol again is also the highest. About 1 in 20 men in Canada—and that's of all age groups—would have alcohol use disorders, and it's 1.7% for females.
The second most important addiction would be cannabis use disorders, and all other drug addictions would be about half of cannabis, at about 0.7%. Again, the usual prevalence is higher for men compared to women by a factor of 2:1 for most of those addictions.
In terms of harm, we do have a lot of disorders resulting from the legal substances that are associated with far more [Inaudible—Editor] in terms of mortality and morbidity, but also disability, than the illegal substances, and all of those addictions have a pattern of high comorbidity with other mental disorders. This means we usually have comorbidities with mood disorders. About one in five people with addictions would also have a concurrent mood disorder, and if you go into generalized anxiety disorders, it's about one in ten. Mood disorders, of course, would be what we would normally call depression, and they include a whole number of psychiatrically defined depressions.
Now to your questions with regard to the mental health strategy and how addictions are treated, addictions overall are covered by the mental health strategy, and there are a lot of very important things to be said about them. But if you look into the practice and if you look into the national policies and the strategic approaches, we see that a lot has been regulated by the national anti-drug strategy of the Government of Canada, and that leads to a conflict of objectives and a conflict of different overarching approaches.
When we look at the national anti-drug strategy we welcome the recent addition of non-medical use of prescription opioids and non-medical use of other drugs as a good step. Part of that, as you heard in the first submission, of course is a result of addictions having been caused in part by the medical system.
The two most costly substances from both a health and economic standpoint, however, are tobacco and alcohol, and these remain completely outside the strategy. I would just mention again that gambling and gaming, although lesser in scope and money, are also outside of and not covered by the national anti-drug strategy.
Overall we would like stress that all addictions and substance use disorders should be a health issue, and substance use should be dealt with by a public health approach. That means we should have a four-pillar approach for illicit drugs, prevention, harm reduction, treatment, and enforcement. The same is true for legal drugs.
We also have to state that the current approach to illegal drugs in Canada is overly enforcement focused. That means that if we look into the balance between a four-pillar approach and the current Canadian approach, we have an emphasis on enforcement, both in terms of money spent and the overall efforts of society. We would like to add to this a harm reduction approach, which is currently missing altogether. The more Canada can shift its overall approach into the public health sphere, the better our chances are for reducing the overall harm.
For the first point, I would like to summarize that addictions in Canada should be addressed through a public health approach, more or less in the way we have seen it in the mental health strategy. If we go into this public health approach, we would have to change some of the things in the national anti-drug strategy, but it would be rewarded by better strategies for tackling addictions and reducing the harm related to addictions.
For the second part of my submission, I would like to look at the stigmatization issue. You've asked specifically about stigmatization for addictions, and unfortunately addictions are very stigmatized in our society. We are not alone in the world. Addiction issues are the most stigmatized mental disorders in all high-income countries, in North America, Europe, and Japan.
From surveys, we know that while the overall stigma associated with mental health has been reduced over the past decades, for addictions this is unfortunately not the case. People with addictions are seen as unpredictable and dangerous. The overall causal attributions that are made see them as not being morally intact and as responsible for their own addictions. This, of course, makes a problem not only for the people afflicted with addictions, but also for the health care system in total because it is leading to the lowest treatment rates of all mental disorders.
While the treatment rates of mental disorders are still below the treatment rates of somatic disorders, among the mental disorders, addictions stand out. For example, in people with alcohol use disorders, only one out of ten in Ontario would get adequate treatment, and would be treated.
Contributing to that is our tendency to see the world in black and white, usually as dichotomous people with having or not having a disease, and not as a continuum. The problem of this dichotomous approach, of not seeing addictions as heavy use over time, as one end of a continuum—which we all share—is leading to these people being more stigmatized and more outside of our society. As a result, they do not seek treatment because they do not want to open themselves up to admitting that they're addicted. That leads to problems in the whole health care system, both in primary health care and in specialist health care.
Stigma interferes with a seamless continuum of treatment, and this is part of what is currently plaguing addictions.
I will remain here. I have 10 minutes, and I have used the 10 minutes, and I would like to just summarize.
All addictions should be seen as a public health problem and should be dealt with from a public health perspective. Stigmatization is one of the major barriers not only for mental health in general but also for addiction specifically.
Thanks a lot.
View Chungsen Leung Profile
CPC (ON)
Thank you to the witness.
Mr. Kurland, I just wish to point out to you that Bill S-7, in part 1, clause 2, proposed subsection 41.1(1), actually indicates what polygamy is, and then proposed subsection 41.1(2) provides the interpretation, but we'll leave that to future consideration.
My question has to do with the proper training and the enforcement of the provisions by our front-line workers. We have immigration officers stationed abroad; we have Canada Border Services people at points of entry; and domestically we have our own immigration officers as well as municipal police, provincial police, and the RCMP. Given all of this training of enforcement officers, does this bill provide the tools for them to enforce legislation regarding any of these issues, such as forced marriages or child marriages? How does this bill do that, and if we ask in the negative, how can we do it better? I'd like to hear your comments on that.
Richard Kurland
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Richard Kurland
2015-04-30 9:24
The lifeblood of Canada's immigration program is precisely that question: can we do it better? Indeed, with dedicated individuals from coast to coast to coast, from a policy perspective, and with external stakeholders, experience feeds into the great system and we do things better. We've progressed over the last 20 years to the state where Canada has never had as good an immigration program. I think we're on the right path. This bill does give us more avenues for information collection. We're going to be going to external stakeholders, the groups that are concerned with violence against women across this country. In the case of external stakeholders on our Pacific coast whose communities are directly impacted by this practice, that system will collect information and feed it to the enforcement people, such as the Canada Border Services Agency, among others, and where evidence permits, the hammer will come down.
The good thing about this, though, is that I don't see the need for additional resources for implementation. This is just another carefully identified fact scenario that allows enforcement officers, when they see a match, to bite down. In terms of enforcement, we've identified a practice. We don't need additional resources. It's going to affect primarily women across the country in a very positive manner.
Josée Touchette
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Josée Touchette
2015-03-26 15:31
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We weren't aware that we could be asked questions beyond the scope of the bill, but that being said, we are here to answer your questions and we'll be happy to do so.
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Josée Touchette, and I am the chief operating officer for the National Energy Board, or NEB. It's a great honour for me to appear today before the Standing Committee on Natural Resources about the proposed Pipeline Safety Act, Bill C-46.
I bring to the board over 25 years of experience in the public service, over half of which was in senior executive positions, including at Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada, the Department of National Defence and the Department of Justice.
Allow me now to introduce my colleagues.
I am joined today by Dr. Robert Steedman, our chief environment officer. Dr. Steedman has been with the board for over 10 years. He holds degrees in environmental sciences from the University of Toronto, Oregon State University, and the University of Calgary.
I am also joined by Mr. Jonathan Timlin, our director of regulatory approaches. Before he moved to Calgary three years ago to work for the NEB, Mr. Timlin worked in Ottawa as a senior policy adviser with both Transport Canada and the Major Projects Management Office. He also previously worked in the electricity industry.
I'd like to begin by telling you about the board's role to provide a bit of context for our discussions later.
The NEB is a quasi-judicial independent agency created by Parliament in 1959 to regulate pipelines and energy development in the public interest. While the NEB functions at arm's length from government, it is accountable to Parliament through the Minister of Natural Resources. Our role is to implement—not set—policies affirmed by federal legislation. The safety of Canadians is a top priority for the NEB.
However, many Canadians don't understand this aspect of our business or how we concern ourselves with it at all.
Today I will provide some insight into how the NEB operates, including an overview, our legislated mandate, changes to the legislative framework, the new public environment, life-cycle regulation, and current safety measures. I will also give you some context on the challenges we face and the three strategic priorities that we are focusing on in response to those challenges.
The National Energy Board is an expert tribunal, currently comprised of six permanent and seven temporary board members, and supported by a staff of highly skilled engineers, environmental specialists, auditors, inspectors, lawyers and engagement specialists, among others. We are very proud of the work that we do at the NEB—whether it's managing complex public hearings, assessing environmental impacts and pipeline integrity, carrying out pipeline inspections and audits, or the myriad of other tasks that we perform daily to ensure that Canada's energy infrastructure is safe and reliable.
Let me turn to our legislative framework.
Our mandate is set out in several pieces of legislation, including the National Energy Board Act, the Canada Oil and Gas Operations Act, the Canada Petroleum Resources Act, and the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act of 2012. I will discuss each of these in turn.
The National Energy Board Act sets out the NEB's regulatory responsibilities regarding, first, the construction, operation, and abandonment of pipelines that cross international borders or provincial boundaries, as well as the associated pipeline tolls and tariffs; second, the construction and operation of international power lines and designated interprovincial power lines; and third, the import of natural gas and exports of crude oil, natural gas liquids, natural gas, refined petroleum products, and electricity. The board also monitors aspects of energy supply, demand, production, development, and trade that fall within the jurisdiction of the federal government under the NEB Act.
The Canada Oil and Gas Operations Act and certain provisions of the Canada Petroleum Resources Act set out the NEB's regulatory responsibilities for oil and gas exploration and activities on frontier lands not otherwise regulated under joint federal-provincial accords, such as, for example, Nunavut, the Arctic offshore, Hudson Bay, the west coast offshore, the Gulf of St. Lawrence, a portion of the Bay of Fundy, and onshore Sable Island.
Finally, both the NEB Act and the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, 2012, provide the NEB with a mandate to consider potential environmental effects and conduct environmental assessments when making regulatory decisions and recommendations.
Environmental aspects have been considered in board decisions under the NEB Act since the early 1970s.
We cannot regulate outside the scope of the acts that govern us. There is a broad network of regulatory jurisdictions across Canada that share responsibility for regulating oil and gas production, energy infrastructure and the environment.
For example, the NEB Act does not provide authority to regulate the production of oil or gas. That responsibility falls to the provinces or their agencies.
I wish to underscore that this legislative mandate is given to us by Parliament. Our role is to implement—not set—policies affirmed by federal legislation.
Let me turn to some of the legislative changes that we've had recently.
In 2012, Parliament passed the Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity Act, also referred to as Bill C-38, which included some of the most significant changes to the NEB Act since its implementation in 1959. Under this legislation, the NEB was given a 15-month maximum time limit for regulatory reviews. This provides the public with enhanced certainty around regulatory proceedings and NEB project reviews. The board was also given new compliance enforcement tools in the form of administrative monetary penalties, or AMPs. AMPs enable us to impose financial penalties on companies or individuals for non-compliances related to safety and the environment.
The Energy Safety and Security Act received royal assent in February. That new legislation amends the Canada Oil and Gas Operations Act and provides the board with new tools for regulating northern oil and gas activities.
The key components of that act include the following elements: $1 billion absolute liability limit in the offshore and new obligations related to financial responsibility and financial resources; improved transparency through new board authority to hold public hearings, make information public, and provide participant funding in relation to projects under the Canada Oil and Gas Operations Act; 18-month time limit for NEB review of Canada Oil and Gas Operations Act applications; authority to establish an administrative monetary penalty regime under the Canada Oil and Gas Operations Act consistent with AMPs under the National Energy Board Act; and authority for cost recovery under the Canada Oil and Gas Operations Act, which would move the board toward 100% recovery of all expenditures.
You now have before you Bill C-46, the pipeline safety act. We at the board welcome any measures that will strengthen our legislation and expand our tool kit to protect Canadians and the environment.
Should Bill C-46 receive royal assent, some of these measures include: an absolute liability regime that will cover all NEB-regulated pipelines and new financial resources requirements that will make sure companies have the ability to pay for spills; greater clarity regarding audits; enhanced enforcement powers to issue stop-work orders in the north; clarification of the board's jurisdiction over abandoned pipelines; board power to assume control of an abandoned pipeline if the company is not complying with board orders; and board powers to assume control of an incident where the governor in council determines that the company will not be able to pay or is not complying with board orders.
The NEB will work effectively and efficiently to implement any changes passed by Parliament in a timely manner.
These legislative changes come at a time when the Canadian energy industry is in the midst of a perfect storm. The conversation around energy development in Canada is working to reconcile safety and environmental protection, economic development, the rights of aboriginal people, and diverse local interests and needs. The resulting debate is complicated and provokes strong opinions.
And the board is in the eye of the storm. We are surrounded on all sides by opposing interests and are also increasingly subject to public scrutiny.
Until the summer of 2010, the board had maintained a fairly low public profile. Most Canadians had little or no idea who the NEB was. In 2006, when the board reviewed an application for the Trans Mountain Anchor Loop Project through Jasper National Park, there were eight interveners
In March 2010, the board released its Keystone XL decision to relatively little fanfare and only 29 interveners in the process.
Contrast that with today, when we have 400 interveners and over 1,300 commenters in the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion project. And we currently have close to 2,300 applications to participate in the Energy East hearing.
The National Energy Board Act stipulates that we must hear from those who are directly affected by the granting or refusing of a project application. And the public appetite to participate in energy hearings is greater than ever. So we adjust and adapt.
We have to remain flexible, so that increasing numbers of interveners can participate in our hearings in a meaningful way. But this focus on mega-projects and public participation leaves the false impression that all the board does is review applications. Nothing could be further from the truth.
As we navigate this storm, we also have a critically important responsibility to provide regulatory oversight to about 73,000 kilometres of pipeline. That is nearly enough pipe to wrap around the earth two times.
The vast majority of those pipelines are buried below ground. Canadians safely live, work, and travel over them every day, and many never even realize that those pipelines are there, but this infrastructure is aging. The majority of these pipelines were put in the ground more than 30 years ago. That is why we put so much focus on safety: on damage prevention, compliance, and enforcement activities.
In 2014, the board conducted 353 compliance activities related to public safety, security and environmental protection. That is almost one compliance activity for every day of the calendar year. These compliance activities included 230 inspections of pipelines and 6 comprehensive audits.
In 2014, the board received nearly 600 applications for pipeline and power line-related facilities, tolls and tariffs, as well as import/export authorizations.
An important part of the board's job is to review and assess project applications, and, using the evidence that is placed before it during a hearing, to determine whether a proposed project is in the Canadian public interest. However, this is only one part of our role. Our regulatory oversight spans the entire life of the project—from design to abandonment. Oil and gas pipelines under NEB jurisdiction require the board's approval before being built.
In that context, companies must file detailed project applications. When an application arrives, we assess it for factors such as safety, environmental impacts, engineering integrity, security, emergency response capability, the rights of people affected, and if applicable, the reasonableness of the proposed tolls and tariffs. Public hearings are then held in many cases.
As I already said, the public appetite to participate in energy hearings is greater than ever. We also want to hear from individuals and groups that are directly affected by a project. If a project is approved, the board sends inspectors to the construction site to ensure that the company is building the project according to the board's conditions and commitments that the company made during the application process.
After construction is complete, the board uses tools such as audits, inspections, compliance meetings, and field exercises to hold companies accountable for safe operation that protects the public, workers and the environment.
Once a pipeline is no longer needed, the NEB requires a company to submit an application for abandonment. This starts an assessment process to determine the conditions that must be met in order for the project to be safely taken out of service.
Bill C-46 would enhance the board's authority in the area of abandonment, and we welcome that. In other words, the board regulates from start to finish and holds pipeline companies responsible for the full cycle of the pipelines they operate.
There is no doubt that all Canadians are concerned about the safety of energy infrastructure and the protection of the environment. The NEB is committed to taking all available actions to protect Canadians and the environment. Conducting unauthorized activity near pipelines or otherwise failing to comply with damage prevention requirements puts the safety of people and the environment at risk.
While the NEB requires the companies it regulates to strive for zero incidents, we recognize that damage prevention is a shared responsibility among all those who operate and work near pipelines. We require pipeline companies to ensure that people know how to safely conduct activities like excavation and construction near their pipelines. We also support and promote the use of one-call systems that promote effective and timely communication between someone planning an activity near a pipeline and the pipeline company.
In addition to our damage prevention program, we have a comprehensive compliance and enforcement program to make sure companies are doing what is required. Each year the NEB conducts targeted compliance verification activities, including six comprehensive audits and at least 150 inspections of regulated companies. This is in addition to the 100-plus technical meetings and exercises conducted on an annual basis.
These tools have been effective in allowing the board to proactively detect and correct instances of non-compliance before they become issues. When companies follow our rules, which are designed to identify hazards and manage risks, pipelines are a safe and reliable way to move oil and gas.
The NEB has strict requirements companies must follow in order to operate their pipelines. These requirements touch on everything from the type of materials used to build a pipeline, to the steps that should be taken to protect people and the environment. Make no mistake—should companies fail to live up to their commitments around safety and environmental protection, the NEB does not hesitate to take strong enforcement action.
We will take every measure to protect people and the environment. We have powerful tools to keep companies on track and prevent incidents which we will use without hesitation. This could include issuing cash fines called administrative monetary penalties, lowering the amount of product a company is allowed to move through their pipeline, and shutting down a pipeline completely if necessary.
In 2012 the board took the following enforcement actions: 302 notices of non-compliance and assurances of voluntary compliance, 3 inspection officer orders, 5 safety orders, and 6 administrative monetary penalties.
While our focus is on preventing accidents from happening in the first place, should an incident occur, the NEB has an emergency management program in place and is ready to respond to an emergency situation at all times. We have working agreements with other government departments and agencies in order to coordinate responses and communicate effectively in times of crisis.
In addition, companies are required to consult with municipalities, first responders and other agencies in the development of their emergency management program. These programs must be put in place prior to operation of a pipeline and must continue throughout its life cycle.
In addition, companies are required to provide emergency management information to persons associated with emergency response, and to develop continuing education and liaison programs for relevant agencies and the public adjacent to the pipeline.
As you can see, there is a significant amount of work that is being done by our staff every day to strengthen all aspects of our pipeline oversight, whether it is through the rigorous review and testing of pipeline applications, compliance and enforcement, or developing and implementing regulatory improvements.
But as technology and the public interest evolve, so to have the NEB's regulations and the expectations of our regulated companies. Management systems in particular are critical to continual improvement in pipeline safety. At their very essence, management systems document how people are to carry out the responsibilities of their position.
In 2013, we amended the National Energy Board Onshore Pipeline Regulations to clarify management systems requirements for the purpose of protecting the public, workers and the environment. The NEB expects companies to have management systems in place for the key program areas for which companies are responsible, those being: safety, pipeline integrity, security, emergency management and environmental protection.
Amendments included a requirement for companies to have a process for internal reporting of hazards, near misses and incidents. They also included new provisions holding a company's senior leadership accountable for its management system, safety culture and the achievement of outcomes related to safety and environmental protection. One thing that has remained constant is our commitment to safety. Safety continues to be our number one priority.
This brings me to the three strategic priorities we have identified to help guide our actions moving forward. First, we are going to take action on safety. We will focus our efforts and resources on developing, refining, and communicating our actions on safety and environmental protection. Using data and trend analysis, we will continue to focus, not just on preventing incidents, but on preventing industry cultures that make incidents more likely to occur. In doing this, we will demonstrate to Canadians how we hold the companies accountable, and exactly what we are holding them accountable for.
We are leaders in regulatory excellence. We are continually improving as a regulator, by reviewing and evaluating our processes. We are committed to act and to be seen as a ''best-in-class'' regulator—and we will demonstrate this through benchmarking and performance measurement. This will also help demonstrate to Canadians that our programs are focused on the right things and achieving the right results.
Finally, we are going to engage Canadians. Our engagement with Canadians must move beyond our application processes. This means broad engagement across the whole of Canada, including a responsive focus on regional issues. It also means more information, readily accessible by any stakeholder who wants it. We feel that by being open and transparent about the work we do, we will earn Canadians' trust that we are, in fact, doing the right things on their behalf.
Another example of how we are starting to act on our strategic priorities is by directly engaging Canadians from coast to coast to coast on safety and environmental issues, including on energy infrastructure of interest to local communities. In January, our chair, Peter Watson, began an engagement initiative, setting out to listen to Canadians’ views of pipeline safety and, if necessary, adjust the NEB's practices and programs.
At the beginning of June, we will also host a pipeline safety forum in Calgary to address specific issues to improve the safety of regulated facilities. The goals of the forum will be to have an open exchange of information on technical pipeline issues, increased understanding of stakeholder concerns, and opportunities for both industry and regulators to improve safety outcomes to better protect people, property, and the environment.
The information collected from the engagement initiative and from the forum will be rolled up in a report to be released later in 2015.
Thank you once again for giving me the opportunity to speak to you today about the important work of the NEB. I provided an overview of the NEB and our legislated mandate. I highlighted recent changes to our legislation, as well as changes that are proposed.
Our long-term commitment requires that we continually review and improve the ways in which we do business. We welcome any measures that will strengthen our legislation and expand our tool kit to protect Canadians and the environment.
Should the bill receive royal assent, we will work hard to implement any changes in a timely manner.
We're happy to address any questions you may have. Merci.
Tom Rosser
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Tom Rosser
2015-03-12 11:49
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
You will recall from our testimony here earlier in the week that I was accompanied by Mr. Allan MacLean and Mr. Tim Angus. With your permission, we have also invited Ms. Angela Bexton to join us. Angela was part of the Canadian delegation to the negotiations that led to the port state measures agreement and has been closely involved in our departmental input into the drafting of Bill S-3 as well.
I will make very brief opening remarks, Mr. Chair, and then I would be happy to engage in further questions and answers with the committee.
We appreciate the opportunity to discuss the amendments and further questions. I'd like to reiterate a few points from the discussion earlier this week.
Working towards the ratification of the port state measures agreement provides an opportunity for Canada to strengthen an already robust port measures system in relation to foreign fishing vessels. The amendments being proposed will improve our existing enforcement regime and in our view should be undertaken whether the international agreement existed or not.
As I described on Tuesday, there have been situations in which Canada would have benefited from having the enhanced enforcement authorities in place. For example, a flag state might want to direct its vessel to a Canadian port for inspection purposes to avoid re-calling the vessel to its port and risking the possibility of compromised evidence.
Another example involves the situation in which the fish have already been partially off-loaded to places beyond the reach of existing authorities under current legislation.
Besides enhancing enforcement, the proposed amendments address another important aspect preventing illegal fishing, which is the prohibition of imports of illegally harvested fish products. Once fish enters the domestic market, it is almost impossible to determine how it was harvested, and it is effectively laundered. Thus, stopping illegally harvested fish and seafood products at the border is an essential contribution to the fight against illegal fishing.
States and regional fisheries management organizations are increasingly demanding proof of legal harvest. This is an evolving issue, so the bill as it stands makes some headway towards addressing the issue of prohibiting imports of illegally harvested fish products. More inevitably could be done, but the bill starts this process. The import prohibitions clearly demonstrate Canada's contribution to the global effort, in line with our key export markets, in particular the United States and the European Union.
IUU fishing is a global problem, but it mainly occurs in regions of the world where there is lax governance or limited capacity to undertake enforcement. This is why port state measures are important. Port state measures are considered cost-effective deterrents to IUU fishing activity that help compensate for lax control by flag states. Canada continues to support a suite of tools for monitoring, control and surveillance of fishing activities, but in regions of the world where the capacity for enforcement by the flag state is limited, port state measures can be effective.
As we are working through our domestic processes to enable Canada's ratification of the treaty, we also encourage other states to consider ratifying the treaty. Canada has supported these efforts in regional fisheries management organizations that are developing their own requirements for port state measures based on this international treaty or that are aligning existing requirements with this new global standard. We therefore see the momentum growing for these measures.
Again, speaking on behalf of my colleagues, let me say that we appreciate the opportunity, Mr. Chair, to make additional comments, and we welcome further questions.
Merci. Thank you.
Tom Rosser
View Tom Rosser Profile
Tom Rosser
2015-03-12 12:05
Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the parliamentary secretary for his question.
I am of the view that you could characterize this piece of legislation as a no regrets bill, in the sense that while its intent is to bring us into compliance with an international treaty, I think the bill also has benefit to our law enforcement capabilities in Canada with respect to the importation of fish and fish products as well as the enforcement activities we undertake with respect to foreign fishing vessels.
Even if the treaty is never entered into force internationally, I think we would be better off with the passage of this bill. While there may be, in terms of definitions and things, things that we may not have included had it not been for the international agreement, I don't think there is anything in this bill as drafted that we would regret having proposed should the international treaty not enter into force.
Tom Rosser
View Tom Rosser Profile
Tom Rosser
2015-03-12 12:17
Mr. Chair, I will certainly try to elaborate, and I may turn to my colleague, Mr. MacLean, for his thoughts as well.
All available evidence suggests that at a global level IUU fishing is a serious problem and has a significant impact both on ocean ecosystems and global markets for fish and seafood products. All available evidence also suggests that Canada is a very minor contributor to that global problem. By global standards, the problem is small here.
Where we would be able to offer data to the committee is on enforcement actions that have been taken against those accused of illegal fishing activities. What we don't know, and what is almost by definition unknowable, is what level of activity has taken place that has gone undetected. All available analysis and evidence suggest that it's a small problem in Canada, but we can't confidently say it doesn't exist either.
In terms of this bill and enforcement activities, we believe that our enforcement regime in Canada is a robust one. We believe that this legislation will make it more so and will allow us to make better use of available enforcement resources by, among other things, enabling more effective collaboration between domestic law enforcement agencies, and where warranted, between Canadian law enforcement agencies and their relevant counterparts overseas.
Allan, I don't know if that's fair or if you have anything to add.
View Ryan Leef Profile
CPC (YT)
View Ryan Leef Profile
2015-03-12 12:25
Thank you to our witnesses.
I'll get into the weeds a little bit on the bill. As a former ex officio fisheries officer, I'd like to drill down on some of the enforcement components of this bill. I see a lot of provisions outlined in this now that I suppose to some degree I'm surprised didn't exist in some other context previously.
First, though, I was in Washington this week talking about Arctic issues. We know that the Arctic waters are becoming a little bit more accessible. To Mr. Cleary's point, he's reflecting back on past enforcement history and stats around what Canada has experienced before, but we do need to look into the future as well when we're presenting this kind of legislation.
Looking at it from an enforcement perspective, could you talk about what we know about changing fisheries patterns and Arctic waters opening up, and where this bill could provide opportunities when we move into the future, regardless of what our enforcement statistics might have looked like in the past? Is that or is that not a serious consideration? Could this bill be of benefit to a changing Arctic fisheries environment?
View Ryan Leef Profile
CPC (YT)
View Ryan Leef Profile
2015-03-12 12:29
Excellent.
With respect to a combined program, where you're running education, compliance, and ultimately an enforcement program when you do this line of work, how do you think Canada has stood in terms of its...? I mean, you reflect on Canada not being a big contributor in terms of illegal international trade. I think that's a good thing. That exemplifies that Canada has a strong presence, and has had in the past solid laws in place and a decent penalty structure. Only adding to that, I think, we'll continue to see that trend of Canada being a fairly secure region.
Would you agree with that, and could you maybe expand on Canada's presence in the coastal waters?
Tom Rosser
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Tom Rosser
2015-03-12 12:30
At a high level, I would say that we believe we have a very robust enforcement and compliance regime in Canada, and that by global standards it compares very favourably with those in place in other jurisdictions.
I would concede that my colleague Mr. MacLean may not be altogether neutral on the matter, but he nonetheless may be able to give greater precision in terms of how our efforts compare with those of our international partners.
Allan MacLean
View Allan MacLean Profile
Allan MacLean
2015-03-12 12:31
Thank you.
From a global perspective, Canada has a very, very strong reputation as having a solid compliance and enforcement regime in place. We are viewed as leaders. We are viewed as a country that can help developing nations in enhancing their capacity. Yes, I can put my own personal flavour on this, but from a global perspective we are recognized as having a very strong and robust compliance and enforcement regime.
View Ryan Leef Profile
CPC (YT)
View Ryan Leef Profile
2015-03-12 12:31
Excellent. Thank you. That obviously is highlighted in enforcement statistics. If we're seeing low rates of violation or low estimation rates, then clearly it's signalling to the players in any international or illegal pursuit that it's not a jurisdiction in which you want to be pursuing those activities for fear of being caught and appropriately dealt with.
I'll again go into the weeds a little bit with a technical question. Proposed section 7.4 talks about the “dwelling place”. This is purely an enforcement line of questioning. When you board a vessel, that's a place that can be inspected or searched either on warrant or without warrant, and in some cases under exigent circumstances. Are there places on vessels that are considered to be dwelling places, by definition?
View Steven Blaney Profile
CPC (QC)
Mr. Chair, as you know, I am very proud to speak French, which is my mother tongue. I will be pleased to do part of my speech in English.
I am happy to be here this morning to set the record straight on certain points. I am very proud to be here with my colleague and friend, the Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, whom I respect deeply. We prepared this bill with him. We are proud to be here to protect the rights of Canadians.
Let me first address the video produced by the criminal who attacked this very Parliament building and murdered Corporal Nathan Cirillo, which you viewed this past Friday.
The Petit Larousse definition is clear and it is used by Commissioner Paulson, the U.S. Secretary of State, John Kerry, or even President François Hollande, who described the act committed here as “terrorist-inspired”. It was an act of violence, a dramatic gesture driven by ideology.
Clearly, every time I appear here, I remember that I was here that day with Minister MacKay and several colleagues from the government caucus. We were witnesses to and victims of this attack. I had the opportunity to meet with all the members of the committee to tell them that we must remain vigilant and confident, and to take the necessary measures, while protecting the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and privacy to effectively fight the evolving terrorist threat. This is my primary duty as Minister of Public Safety.
That is why I am here today with Minister MacKay to present Bill C-51. This bill includes measures to combat terrorism and will provide additional tools to our law enforcement agencies, intelligence services and organizations that follow up on and oversee our intelligence services.
Our anti-terrorism act, Bill C-51, is ensuring a better protection of our rights and freedoms. This bill brings more tools for law enforcement and security agencies to tackle radicalization and track terrorists, and dramatically increases judicial oversight and review mechanisms to protect our rights and freedoms and the privacy of all Canadians.
Mr. Chair, the reality is that the international jihadist movement has declared war on Canada and most countries around the world. Canada and Canadians are being targeted by jihadist terrorists simply because these terrorists hate our society and hate our values. This is why our government has put forward measures that protect Canadians against jihadist terrorists who seek to destroy the very principles that make Canada the best country in the world in which to live.
That is also why Canada is not sitting on the sidelines, as some would have us do, and is instead joining our allies in supporting the international coalition in the fight against the evil ISIL, the terrorist organization Islamic State.
We saw it in Saint-Jean and even here in Ottawa. We also saw it in Paris, in Sydney, Australia, and in Copenhagen. The threat is complex and diffuse. It is our duty to take action to protect Canadians while protecting our rights and freedoms.
Violent international extremist groups, like the Islamic state and Al-Qaeda and its branches, represent a serious threat for Canada. That is why we must adapt and strengthen our capacity to protect our country and its people.
Because there is no liberty without security.
In order for freedom to flourish, security is crucial.
These principles protecting security while maintaining liberty are at the heart of our Conservative government's approach to national security. Canadians expect that if one branch of government is aware of a threat to their security, then this information would be shared with other branches of government to protect Canadians, not new information, but existing collected information. The security of Canada information sharing act, the first part of Bill C-51, is a response to the Air India commission and to many other requests. Mr. Chair, we are doing it to better protect Canadians. The legislation has adequate safeguards built in to protect the privacy of Canadians. We are not interested in giving privileges to the rights of terrorists over the rights of Canadians.
As we have heard, this piece of legislation will give the legal capacity to all the government departments and agencies to share information on activities that undermine the security of Canada, in a proactive manner or in response to requests from designated federal institutions with a mandate or responsibilities related to national security. The people in my riding are asking me why we have not done this until now.
By definition, under the new legislation, an activity that undermines the security of Canada means any activity that undermines the sovereignty, the territorial integrity of Canada, or the lives and the security of the people of Canada. Many observers have commented on this definition. This morning, I would like to point out that it refers strictly to the sharing of already existing information between federal agencies and organizations. Clearly, it does not relate to the mandate of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.
The second measure proposed by the bill has to do with the Secure Air Travel Act. This legislation would provide a legal framework to define the ministerial powers under the passenger protect program and to broaden the mandate of this program in order to identify, enumerate and mitigate threats posed by two categories of individuals.
The first category, which includes those suspected of posing a threat to transportation security, is already in place. The second category has not been set up yet. Yet our need for it is great. Those who try to go abroad in order to support terrorist activities are not covered by the legislation. Right now, we cannot prevent them from getting on a plane even though we have reasons to believe that their intent in so doing is to commit a terrorist act.
Once again, Mr. Chair, it is quite clear.
This would put an additional tool in the tool box for our national security agencies when they are combatting the threat of individuals travelling abroad to engage in criminal activities. The act would authorize the Canada Border Services Agency to collect information related to air travellers coming to or leaving Canada and to screen them against the list. Having Government of Canada law enforcement officials rather than airline workers screen passengers against the list would better protect the security and privacy of Canadians.
The bill will also enable individuals on the list who have been prevented from travelling under the program to make a request to be withdrawn from the list. The bill provides for an appeal mechanism. In fact, any person on the list could appeal to the Federal Court.
The third measure we are proposing will provide the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) with a new mandate to reduce threats to the security of Canada. It's about time.
Currently CSIS can detect security threats but is unable to take action unlike most allies are doing. With the new threat disruption mandate, CSIS would be authorized to take direct action to disrupt threats to the security of Canada at home and abroad like most of our allies, such as Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, France, United States, United Kingdom, and Australia. It's about time, Mr. Chair. For instance, CSIS could interfere with terrorists' travel plans or financial transactions, and even intercept weapons to prevent terrorist use.
It is important to note that this mandate is tied to the existing definition of “threats to the security of Canada” that can be found in section 2 of the CSIS Act. This definition has been in place for 30 years and has formed the basis for CSIS' primary intelligence collection mandate since its inception and would be applied the same to the threat disruption mandate.
With this new mandate, Bill C-51 sets rigorous limits and establishes a warrant mechanism for threat disruption. To my knowledge, we are the only country in the world to add this judicial oversight to the threat reduction mechanism. If the measures proposed might contravene a right guaranteed by the charter or another Canadian law, a Federal Court judge would have to authorize them in advance.
Bill C-51 also sets out new review requirements for the Security Intelligence Review Committee. We are giving this review committee the legal mandate to oversee CSIS' activities in order to increase responsibility, transparency and respect for the rights of Canadians.
Finally, the fourth proposed measure seeks to amend division 9 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. This would allow the government to use and protect classified information as part of immigration procedures, including security certificate cases before the Federal Court and applications for non-disclosure before the Immigration and Refugee Board. Those amendments would ensure the rigorous protection of classified information and would ensure that the proceedings are fair. That would also enable us to ensure that the discretion of the judge is retained in this case and that the special advocate or amicus curiae role is retained in order to protect the interests of non-citizens at in camera meetings.
Before I conclude my remarks today and hand the microphone to my honourable colleague, I would like to address three key misconceptions that have been put forward by members of the opposition, as well as so-called experts.
The leader of the NDP has alleged that the legislation before us today means that legitimate dissent and protests would now be considered threats to Canadian security. These allegations are completely false, and frankly, ridiculous. Section 2 of the CSIS Act, which outlines exactly what is considered a threat to the security of Canada, is not being amended in any way by the new anti-terrorism legislation...again, sharing of information, threat disruption.
Mr. Chair, we reject the argument that every time we talk about security our freedoms are threatened. Indeed, we believe the opposite. Canadians understand that their freedom and security go hand in hand. The fundamental fact is that our police and national security agencies are working to protect our rights and our freedoms and it is the jihadi terrorists who endanger our security and who would take away our freedoms.
Further, the leader of the NDP made allegations that I feel as Minister of Public Safety are unacceptable, because he said that CSIS, the security intelligence, has broken the law. This is an insult to the men and women who are protecting Canadians on a daily basis, who are risking their lives in unsafe places, Mr. Chairman. For 30 years there has been the report of the Security Intelligence Review Committee, which has always provided the certificate demonstrating that they complied with our Canadian law. I ask the member to bring coherent arguments, but not insult those who are protecting us. I ask him to apologize and to keep the debate among politicians focused on facts, truth, and reality.
Furthermore, some commentators have said that the scope of the definition of “activity that undermines the security of Canada” is too broad, and that the language used is too vague for security legislation. Well, this definition should not be read in isolation. Proposed section 5 of the security of Canada information sharing act further restricts what information can be shared by requiring that information be shared only if it is relevant to the national security jurisdiction or responsibility of the recipient. The definition was intended to cover any information that is relevant to the security of Canada.
I'm glad we have here the leader of the Green Party, who has said that the provisions to protect lawful advocacy, protest, and dissent do not go far enough. I would invite the member to further read the legislation carefully. The act clearly states that the definition of “activity that undermines the security of Canada” does not include lawful advocacy, protest, dissent, or artistic expression.
It should be noted that the carve-out is for greater certainty, and is intended to reflect the fact that these activities are not intended to be captured by this legislation. Once again, Mr. Chair, the information that is to be captured by this legislation, solely for sharing purposes, with no new information, has to undermine the security of Canada. “Lawful” is intended to be read narrowly and to exclude legitimate forms of protest that are not contrary to the Criminal Code. In other words, not having a municipal permit for a protest would not lead to an otherwise lawful protest being captured by this legislation.
Similarly, some have said that allowing CSIS to disrupt threats to national security would trample on the rights of legitimate protestors. Once again this is untrue, inaccurate and false. Under the legislation before us today, the threshold for CSIS to engage in disruption is reached if there are reasonable grounds to believe that a particular activity constitutes a threat to the security of Canada. This is the same definition that has been used for the last 30 years. Previously, CSIS did not have disruption powers, allowing them only to collect and retain information to the extent that is strictly necessary.
Security is essential to maintaining our democratic rights and freedoms, and the anti-terrorism act seeks to do exactly that. I hope that all members will support this legislation, with the trust and confidence that we are taking the appropriate measures to protect Canadians and our freedoms and rights.
Personally, Mr. Chair, I believe that if we were to stand still and not do anything to face this evolving threat, it would be morally irresponsible and immoral. It is our duty to avoid losing human lives because of bureaucratic silos. We can fix this. Canadians would be unforgiving should we fail to fix this dysfunctional information sharing system. We are probably one of the few countries that is not doing so. Better protecting the rights and freedoms of Canadians while tackling the threat of terrorism is exactly what Bill C-51 is accomplishing. To do so, we have worked in close conjunction with the Minister of Justice and his department, and I am pleased to let him make his remarks.
Thank you.
View Cheryl Gallant Profile
CPC (ON)
Dr. Sands, how would you rate the joint cooperation between our military and civilian security during a critical incident? For example, does the interoperability with respect to cybersecurity exist at the levels it should?
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