Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:18
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, it is, of course, an honour to serve in any chamber of the Parliament of Canada. When people are elected or named to the Senate, they should treat it as a great honour.
Obviously when we name people, we name people of high standing in Canadian society. We expect them to be able to follow the rules and conduct themselves in a way that shows integrity.
When that is not done, we take our responsibilities. I obviously urge the Senate to take its responsibilities and apply proper sanction to senators who have not respected the rules.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:19
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, of course that statement is not true.
As we know, certain individuals and some senators are under investigation. When we learned that they had not conducted themselves in a proper manner, they left the Conservative caucus. They remain under investigation.
I think the facts are absolutely clear. They have not acted in a way that respects taxpayers' dollars and have done so on a very large scale. The consequence for that in our judgment should be that they be removed from the public payroll. We urge the Senate to do that immediately.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:20
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, I think that the NDP leader is talking about a letter that the RCMP wrote, I presume, to Mr. Duffy's lawyer.
I think what the Leader of the Opposition is referring to is a letter the RCMP has written, I gather, to the lawyer for Mr. Duffy, urging him to co-operate with the RCMP investigation. Of course, we would all urge that.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:21
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, as we have said since the beginning, we are helping the RCMP by turning over all of the documents.
We have been very clear from the beginning. This office will give the RCMP any and all assistance it requires. It is important that those who committed the acts in question be held accountable and that they be held accountable in the Senate. Of course if there is anything beyond that that investigators think they should be charged with, they will get full assistance from our office in doing so, because we demand that kind of accountability.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:22
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, the responsibility of this government is to make sure all accountability is followed. We are obviously making sure authorities are assisted with their look into the various individuals, as is their responsibility.
Let me be clear once again, because the leader of the NDP keeps trying to insinuate some role on my part. I have been very clear. I did not know about any payment from Mr. Wright to Mr. Duffy, or about the story to deceive Canadians about that. I do not approve that. Had my authorization been sought, it would not have been granted.
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Right Hon. Justin Trudeau - 14:23
CPC (AB)
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No, Mr. Speaker. As I have said repeatedly, I did not know anything about that until May 15. That is, of course, the reason Mr. Wright is no longer on the public payroll and also why we believe that Mr. Duffy should also no longer be on the public payroll.
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Right Hon. Justin Trudeau - 14:24
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, the actions in question here are the actions of Mr. Wright and Mr. Duffy. Mr. Wright is no longer on the public payroll as a consequence of his actions, and Mr. Duffy should no longer be on the public payroll.
While we are talking about changing stories, it is interesting to hear the Liberal Party demanding some kind of sanction when, in fact, for the past two weeks Liberals have been doing everything in their power to protect the club over there in the Senate and make sure nobody is ever held accountable for anything. It is time that the Liberal senators supported some serious sanctions for senators who have violated public trust.
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Right Hon. Justin Trudeau - 14:25
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, we are talking about the actions and responsibility of Mr. Wright and Mr. Duffy. Mr. Wright is no longer on the public payroll, and Mr. Duffy should not be either.
Talk about hypocrisy. Over the past two weeks, the Liberal Party has done everything in its power to protect senators who broke the rules. It is time the Liberals stepped up to support harsh sanctions against senators who betrayed the public trust.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:26
CPC (AB)
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No, Mr. Speaker. It is interesting to hear this from the leader of the NDP. The senators, the vast majority of them, support taking strong action in this measure, as they should.
Of course, I would just point out for the record that I only appointed senators after the NDP and the others tried to fill the vacancies themselves in the Senate.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:28
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, I have already been clear about the facts around that.
I indicated to Mr. Duffy and I indicated to all members of our caucus that I thought it was not right for him to claim expenses that he had not incurred. That view was communicated directly and personally to Mr. Duffy.
Afterwards, obviously, my wishes on that were not carried out. The public was deceived on that. For that reason, Mr. Wright is no longer on the payroll and Mr. Duffy should not be either.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:28
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, once again, my view from the beginning, conveyed to Mr. Duffy, was that he had no right to claim expenses from the Senate that he had not actually incurred out of his pocket. I expected that Mr. Duffy would be the one to repay those expenses. That is what I was told had been done. That is what the Canadian people were told was done. That was not true. For that reason, Mr. Wright is no longer on the payroll of my office, no longer on the public payroll, and Mr. Duffy should not be so either.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:29
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, once again, as we have said before, political parties do quite frequently provide legal assistance to members of their caucus in good standing, as in fact has been the case for the Leader of the Opposition.
My instructions and my views on the matter of Mr. Duffy's inappropriate expenses were clear: that he should repay those expenses. That is what I was told had been done. That is what the Canadian public was told was done. When that turned out not to be the truth, I took my responsibility and made the appropriate changes in my office.
The government urges the Senate to do the same thing and take Mr. Duffy and others off the public payroll.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:31
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, let me get this straight.
The Leader of the Opposition apparently has some difficulty with some legal assistance being provided to members of the Conservative caucus, but he apparently has no difficulty at all in getting literally six figures worth of legal assistance from his party, even having his party pay court-awarded damages against him in a court case he lost. That is something for him to explain.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:32
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, my position has been clear from the beginning. I told Mr. Duffy that I expected him to reimburse his inappropriate expenses. I was told that that was what happened.
As it turns out, that is not really what happened. That is why Mr. Wright is no longer on the public payroll. Mr. Duffy should not be either.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:33
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, once again, the Leader of the Opposition is now just throwing out names and making allegations against individuals without even the slightest piece of evidence. He has no inclination that is true at all.
We know whose actions are in question here. Mr. Wright has accepted responsibility for his actions. He has accepted the penalties for that and is under investigation.
Mr. Duffy and the senators who, quite frankly, abused the public trust by taking money when they should not have taken it are the ones who should be dealt with most severely, and that is what we expect the Senate to do.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:34
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, once again, Mr. Wright has acknowledged that these were his actions, that he took them himself using his own resources, and he executed them. He is held responsible for those actions, as he should be, and as should obviously the senators who took the money from the taxpayers in the first place.
Mr. Duffy, who is apparently still not out any money for having actually taken money that he never actually spent in the first place, still has all that money, which is why the Senate should take the actions that are appropriate.
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Hon. Thomas Mulcair - 14:35
CPC (AB)
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Mr. Speaker, once again, if the Leader of the Opposition is trying to assert that in any way the money of the Prime Minister's Office or the money of the government was used to pay Mr. Duffy, that is completely incorrect. It was Mr. Wright himself using his own resources who paid Mr. Duffy, and then obviously Mr. Wright and Mr. Duffy allowed the Canadian public to be misled on what had actually occurred.
As I have said repeatedly, Mr. Wright has acknowledged that and accepted responsibility. He is no longer on the public payroll. One would think that the individual who still has the $90,000 in his pocket inappropriately would be removed from the public payroll, and it is about time the Senate did so.
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Hon. Ralph Goodale - 14:36