//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1225)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.[Translation]My thanks to the witnesses for joining us today. It's really nice to hear from you.I have several questions to ask, so I will try to be brief, while touching on all the topics I want to discuss.There is a lot of talk about the perennial issue of balance between basic research and applied research. As we know, we need applied research because it is a key component of science.I would like to take the time to quote David Robinson, executive director of the Canadian Association of University Teachers. He said the following:When it comes to supporting university-based research, the federal government has an unbalanced approach. [...] The government continues to miss the fact that real innovation and scientific advancements are driven by long-term basic research, not short-term market demands.Do you think more investments are needed in basic research? If so, how should those investments be made? I would also like you to talk about the role of education and basic research in stimulating innovation.I saw our guests smiling.Government assistanceInnovationResearch and researchers41693744169375416937641693774169378416937941693804169381DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleJean-MarieDe Koninck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1230)[Translation]Could you tell us about some worthwhile models?I have here the Mitacs record for 2013. According to what you told us earlier, you are now working in collaboration with 60 universities. But those 60 universities probably all have their own way of doing things. I see that, in 2013, the Université Laval was not one of your partners. However, the INRS was. That is a good model, especially when it comes to basic and applied research.I was wondering whether the Université Laval is one of your partners now and, if not, why.At the INRS, professors and researchers are often veritable jacks of all trades, as are the institute's students I know. You used the expression “back and forth” earlier. That aspect could be inspirational and useful.InnovationInstitut national de la recherche scientifiqueInternshipsMitacsUniversité Laval4169391416939241693934169394RobertAnnanJean-MarieDe Koninck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (0915)[Translation]That is a very good idea. The federal government has an enormous number of buildings, enormous infrastructure. It could as you said be one of the first users. It could lead by example by adopting this type of technology, which is really focused on adapting to climate change. I think that is interesting.In addition, there is the Quebec Fonds vert, the Green Fund. That plan provides funds to companies and industries. It applies to industries at this time. Could you tell me how the Green Fund allows companies to innovate while lowering their energy costs and costs of production? How could a bill, or a program like the Quebec Green Fund, be an incentive for companies to innovate, in partnership with government?Associations, institutions and organizationsEnergy conservationEnvironmental protectionInnovationPrivate sector4164029GregZilberbrantGregZilberbrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My first question is for you, Ms. Dubé. Your presentation was very interesting. I would simply like to know whether you think open data plays an important role in disruptive technology and whether the federal government should play a role by developing a national strategy or taking a concerted approach in terms of the availability of open data.Data sharingInnovation41593974159398DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1145)[Translation]Yes. In the discussions I have had about open data, I found that it had tremendous potential, but also a number of challenges, especially since there is no real communication between the databases of the provinces. In your view, should the federal government play a coordinating role?Innovation41594014159402JacquelineDubéJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1145)[English]The next question is for Ms. Sullivan from the University of Waterloo. You say in your presentation that curiosity-driven research is essential. Would you have any recommendations for the federal government regarding finding a balance in terms of funding curiosity-driven research and industry-oriented research? Do you think there should be federal funding specifically towards discovery research?InnovationResearch and researchers41594044159405JacquelineDubéPearlSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1150)[English]I think it's important, because we've heard from other stakeholders how important the discovery grants program has been and we've seen over the past few years a lack of investment in this program. I think on the NDP side, we'd certainly be in favour of reinvesting in discovery research.Moving on to another subject, the status of women committee is actually doing a study on women in STEM, which is really an interesting topic. Although your presentation didn't touch on this, many witnesses in the status of women committee noted that in order to encourage women to enter engineering, it's really important to portray it as a helping career, so really to further educate those who would go into those careers. How do you think we could encourage women to be part of innovation ecosystems? How could we further encourage them to create future disrupters? Do you have any recommendations, either for industry or for government, in terms of increasing the participation of women?EcosystemsEngineering and engineersInnovationWomen415940841594094159410PearlSullivanPearlSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1215)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My thanks to our witnesses for being here this morning.I would like to start with Ms. Sullivan.A number of experts said that it is difficult to connect university research with the needs of research and development companies. However, CEFRIO seems to have developed a level of expertise in the field. In your view, what solutions could Canada develop on a larger scale? Business and industrial sectorsColleges and universitiesInnovation4159486415948741594884159489DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1220)[Translation]Ms. Sullivan, must our universities provide better incentives to researchers for commercialization?Innovation4159496PearlSullivanPearlSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1220)[Translation]I find that interesting. Since you are from my riding, I would like to take this opportunity to find out more about how CEFRIO is funded.Do you receive money from federal programs? How can the federal government help you more?Innovation41595034159504JacquelineDubéJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1225)[Translation]Yes, that could be a partner. I find it very interesting that you are raising this point today.Ms. Dubé, in your PowerPoint presentation, you indicated that the cost of access to the Internet and to cellular networks was too high and was affecting Canada's economic vitality.How does Canada compare to the rest of the world in that respect?InnovationInternet415950741595084159509JacquelineDubéJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1140)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is a pleasure to welcome a Quebec company to Ottawa. Thank you for coming to meet with us, Mr. Simard. I have a few questions for you.In describing your company's vision, your website says:Technologies become useless, capital dwindles and competitive advantages slowly disappear, but the right people will always allow an organization to excel, reinvent itself and survive change. Instead of putting a spoke in their wheels, we think businesses should offer people the freedom and the environment to enable them to reach their full potential.Are Canadian companies a little too conservative when it comes to reinventing themselves? If so, what is the mindshift we need to happen here?Business and industrial sectorsChange managementInnovation41535894153590415359141535924153593DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdalePierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1140)[Translation]What are the main obstacles that a company like yours might face when it's trying to implement new technologies?Innovation4153596Pierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1140)[Translation]If you could ask the federal government to adopt a single measure to help your business excel in new technologies and innovation, what would it be?Innovation4153600Pierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1140)[Translation]I would also like to address the issue of the growing number of business incubators in the area of new technologies. What do you think are the positive and negative aspects of that kind of development?Business developmentInnovationRisk management4153602Pierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1145)[Translation]That's the most positive aspect, but is there a negative one in your opinion?Innovation4153605Pierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1145)[Translation]There may be a lack of diversity of opinions.I would like to ask another question. Knowing that Canada lags a little bit behind when it comes to investment in research and innovation, are we going to be able to surf the wave of new technologies in the coming years? If not, will Canada be able to compete internationally? Canada is the only developed country that has a deficit when it comes to intellectual property. That means that we are spending more to acquire the technology of other countries that what the rest of the world buys from us. How do you think we could fix that situation?Business and industrial sectorsInnovationIntellectual propertyResearch and researchers41536074153608Pierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1145)[Translation]That's right.Since this is an opportunity to speak to a representative from a Quebec company, I was wondering whether I could give you the last word so that you could talk about certain aspects that we haven't had an opportunity to discuss. What should we do for Quebec companies in particular?Innovation41536114153612Pierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1235)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.As you know, Canada is the only developed country with an intellectual property deficit. That means that we spend more buying other countries' technology than the rest of the world does buying ours.In a recent article I brought to this committee, the author, Jim Balsillie, criticized the fact that Canada has no intellectual property strategy. The European Union has a sophisticated system for protecting intellectual property. Obviously that is part of the Canada-Europe Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, which ensures prosperity for Europe's pharmaceutical industry.Do you think that Canada still has a way to go when it comes to protecting our businesses' intellectual property? I think you will all have something to say about that.InnovationIntellectual propertyInternational relations4119505411950641195074119508DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleColinMcKay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1240)[Translation]Is it a good strategy to set that aside for a while and tell ourselves that it is constantly changing in any event? It may be necessary to constantly update it as much as possible, knowing that we will not always be completely up to date and that the strategy will always have to be improved. Can we not start now? Do we not run the risk of falling behind other countries?Innovation4119520MartinLavoieMartinLavoie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1240)[Translation]I would like to talk some more about this very important article.Representatives of the University of Toronto say that U of T is in a class with the likes of MIT and Stanford University when it comes to research and development. However, Stanford University has generated $1.3 billion U.S. in royalties on its intellectual property. The Massachusetts Institute of Technology issued 288 U.S. patents last year alone. The University of Toronto generates less than $3 million Canadian in annual income and averages eight patents a year. That is not much compared to the American universities.What can we do so that our universities are more competitive with American universities?What do you think, Ms. Cukier? You talked quite a bit about how universities lag behind.InnovationIntellectual property4119523411952441195254119526MartinLavoieDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1200)[English]That's great.[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I have here an article that was published in the Globe and Mail this week. I feel that it will be very useful for us. The title is:[English] “Canadians can innovate, but we’re not equipped to win”. The article states:We have a long way to go, however. The University of Toronto’s commercialization office states that it is “in a class with the likes of MIT and Stanford.” But Stanford has generated $1.3-billion (U.S.) in royalties for itself and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology issued 288 U.S. patents last year alone; U of T generates annual licensed IP income of less than $3-million (Canadian) and averages eight U.S. patents a year. Statistics Canada reports that in 2009, just $10-million was netted by all Canadian universities for their licences and IP. Even when accounting for universities that have open IP policies, this is a trivial amount by global standards. What could we do to improve our performance versus the U.S. universities?Business developmentColleges and universitiesInnovationScience and technology strategy411565841156594115660411566141156624115663DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleVincentMartin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1210)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Hewitt, I was listening to you earlier and I fully understood your comments about the gap between invention and innovation. There is certainly something to be said about the importance of training and of resources, as well as the importance of having a strategy on how our resources must be used.I am not sure if Canada really has the best leaders to do that. Certainly, we are missing something. Let me read to you from an article in the Globe and Mail. It reads:[English] Canada is falling behind global leaders in R&D....[Translation]Let me quote the Globe and Mail again.[English] Canada is the only developed country with an intellectual property deficit—meaning we spend more to acquire other peoples’ technology than the world buys from us— That's maybe a point.And most disappointingly, the private sector continues to underinvest, in spite of repeated warnings about the consequences. Business spending on R&D stands at 0.88 per cent of GDP, near the bottom among OECD countries.I would like to hear more from you about this, because it seems there’s no obvious sense of urgency. Maybe that's the problem here. That's probably something we should do.I'll give you an example from the article:Taiwan, which spent half of what Canada did in 2002, now tops this country by nearly $3-billion a year.There's probably something that should be done about this.Government expendituresInnovationInvestmentPrivate sectorResearch and researchers410930041093014109302410930341093044109305410930641093074109308410930941093104109311DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleTedHewitt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1215)[Translation]Mr. Fitzgibbons, let's stay very specific and talk about investments in training. Do you really have anything there? This is not just about encouraging people to become entrepreneurs, and so forth. We need really concrete solutions.Education and trainingGovernment assistanceInnovation4109319KevinFitzgibbonsKevinFitzgibbons//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1215)[Translation]An important point needs to be emphasized here.Since 2011, the government has wanted to encourage companies to invest in research and development. We were just talking about how Canadian companies are underperforming in R and D. We have to admit that the results are not yet up to snuff. According to Statistics Canada, R and D investments by companies went from $16.5 billion in 2006 to $15.5 billion in 2014. When a government invests in applied research because its private sector is not doing so enough, it seems that two options arise. It either stimulates R and D or the private sector decides to spend as little as possible on it and to take advantage of government subsidies so that its own innovation costs are as low as possible. In the light of those figures, therefore, would this not be the time to question the strategy once more? Would it let Canada be competitive enough internationally and also with the United States, our closest neighbour?CompaniesInnovationInvestmentResearch and researchers410932141093224109323KevinFitzgibbonsKevinFitzgibbons//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1200)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have here an article that talks about what we're discussing today. It says that taxpayers pour a lot of money into R and D but don't get their money's worth. That's according to a report by Deloitte from a few years back. One of the things the report recommended was coming up with new ways to fund innovation. Public spending on R and D is equivalent to 0.24% of GDP. That's the highest share of any OECD country, second only to South Korea, which invests 0.34%. And yet Canada is at the back of the pack when it comes to business spending. For every dollar invested by government, businesses spend just $4, the lowest ratio in the OECD. Just to put that in context, Switzerland ranks first, with businesses spending $60. My question is simple. What can the government do to fix the problem and make up for the lack of investment by the private sector and universities?Government expendituresInnovationResearch and researchers4102032410203341020344102035DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleShannonGlenn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1205)[Translation]I'd like to discuss another relevant issue, particularly from a Canadian standpoint. According to the report, Canadian businesses are more likely to adjust their spending based on government assistance than their American counterparts. In fact, that Canadian behaviour is attributed to a more cautious attitude towards risk management. I'd like to know what you would suggest in terms of solutions, as far as that cautious approach towards investment is concerned. How can we work within our system to make sure that we aren't penalized in relation to our American counterparts? CompaniesInnovationInvestment410204441020454102046ShannonGlennShannonGlenn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1025)[Translation]Ms. Hébert, according to reports on competition, innovation is an area of weakness, and that hurts the competitiveness of Canada's economy. If the market is unable to resolve the issue, the government must do something.In the world's most competitive economies—such as that of Switzerland—the government gets involved with the industry in order to promote innovation. So I think the government does have a role to play in that area.Economic impactInnovationLinguistic communitiesLinguistic minorities3775691AnneHébertAnneHébert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau: (1620)[Translation]Okay.Mr. McMurren, my next question is for you, as the person in charge of social innovation in your department.Could you define “social innovation” as it relates to our study?Crime preventionInnovationSocial finance37471483747149SiobhanHartyBlairMcMurren//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau (Berthier—Maskinongé, NDP): (1550)[English] I'd like to thank our witnesses for their presentations today and also for the cookie, which will be useful later because we have 17 votes, so we might need a snack in the House. Mr. Thurlow, you mentioned the eco-energy for biofuels program. Can you give me examples of where the program was successful and where it needs improvements?Agricultural productsBiofuelsCompetitionecoENERGY InitiativesInnovation37348603734861BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexW. ScottThurlow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1550)[English]I've heard about fuel pumps that can dispense fuels with an 85% renewable content. In the United States, they have about 30,000 of them. Do we have any here in Canada?Agricultural productsBiofuelsCompetitionFuelling stationsInnovationUnited States of America3734865W. ScottThurlowW. ScottThurlow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1550)[English]What is the primary source of funding for innovation in your sector?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3734868W. ScottThurlowW. ScottThurlow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1550)[English]I'll move on to OGVG.You guys mentioned some challenges with programs as they are right now, such as the significant gap—four to five years—in funding. Both of you agree that's not very flexible. Could you go into more detail regarding those statements? Also, could you comment on what you're doing regarding food safety and traceability?Agricultural productsCompetitionGovernment assistanceGovernment programsGreenhouse growingInnovation37348703734871W. ScottThurlowLeanneWilson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault (Joliette, NDP): (1610)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to thank all the witnesses for their presentations.Mr. Gilvesy, you didn't have time to get through your entire brief, which covers a lot. Would you like to go over some of the points in your brief that you didn't have time to present?Agricultural productsCompetitionGreenhouse growingInnovation373494937349503734951BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexGeorgeGilvesy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1610)[Translation]You prepared a great brief for us but you ran out of time before you were able to finish your presentation. Is there anything you'd really like us to know, for instance, regarding competition in the produce sector? Is there anything you'd like to add that you weren't able to cover?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3734955GeorgeGilvesyGeorgeGilvesy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1610)[Translation]What's your biggest R and D challenge? Is there a lot of lag time as far as the approval of research and innovation goes? Do you have to wait a while before your program or research is approved? What's your biggest obstacle?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovationResearch and researchers3734959GeorgeGilvesyW. ScottThurlow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1615)[Translation]Thank you.I believe Mr. Thurlow also wanted to respond.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation37349633734964LeanneWilsonW. ScottThurlow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1615)[Translation]Mr. Thurlow, how would the government benefit from a greater investment in renewable energy? People want to use renewable energy, but that's not always an easy proposition.Agricultural productsBiofuelsCompetitionGovernment assistanceInnovation3734967W. ScottThurlowW. ScottThurlow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1645)[English]I'd like to thank our witnesses for their presentations. I've learned a lot. I'm sorry, but I forgot the name of the last witness, who talked about forages. You commented that the private sector has vacated some areas due to market and commercial viability. Could you comment and give some examples of that, please?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovationSeed growing37350693735070BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexDougWray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1650)[English] Bill C-18 will be coming up once again in the House, and it will be at committee. I hear a lot of concerns about that bill, so I'm looking forward to having that come in. I don't know when it will be. I was just wondering if you can comment on how the government can continue to foster or better foster innovation.Agricultural productsC-18, An Act to amend certain Acts relating to agriculture and agri-foodCompetitionFeed grainsGovernment assistanceInnovationResearch and researchers3735074DougWrayDougWray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1650)[English]I have some questions for Ms. Miller.Your industry has been very successful, mostly because of innovation. I was wondering if you could comment on how important it is to ensure Canada does invest in public research, because we know success is based on innovation. Also, is the government doing enough with the programs as they are right now?Agricultural productsCanola growingCompetitionGovernment assistanceInnovationResearch and researchers37350773735078DougWrayPattiMiller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1650)[English]In your industry, how much is public and how much is private?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3735081PattiMillerPattiMiller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1710)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you to the witnesses for contributing to our study this afternoon.My question is for the Canadian Forage and Grassland Association representatives. In your brief, you say, and I quote: “Dramatically reduced forage research funding has created a situation in which forage yields have not kept pace with those of annual crops, putting the livestock sector at risk.”How do you plan to ensure that forage research is carried out, so you can keep your livestock well-fed and continue to raise cattle? Is your beef operation at risk?Agricultural productsCompetitionFeed grainsInnovationResearch and researchers37351543735155373515637351573735158BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexDougWray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1715)[Translation]You also mention in your brief, “areas where the private sector has vacated the market due to lack of commercial viability”. Do you think the private sector will eventually put money into research, or has that aspect ground to a halt?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3735162DougWrayDougWray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau (Berthier—Maskinongé, NDP): (1705)[English]Thank you, Chair. I'd like to thank our witnesses for still being with us even after the votes. I'd like to thank you all for your presentations. They were very interesting and I really enjoyed a lot of the recommendations. They were hard to follow. I have a page and a half of notes. I would just like to start my questions and perhaps you can all answer and we'll go around that way. We've had witnesses come to committee and say that in the programs out there right now, five years is not enough and we need to have a longer-term vision for research and innovation. I wonder if you can comment on the need for perhaps a long-term vision instead of programs that are so short. Also perhaps comment on the agri-innovation program and whether it is working. On sugar beets, Mr. Third, you mentioned that we need to a more timely response to the applications. I wonder if you would all comment on that, please. Agricultural productsApplication processBacklogsCompetitionGovernment assistanceGovernment programsInnovationResearch and researchersSugar beets37273173727318372731937273203727321BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexBevShipleyLambton—Kent—Middlesex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1710)[English]Do I have another minute?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3727336CarlaVentinBevShipleyLambton—Kent—Middlesex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1710)[English]Carla, you had quite a few recommendations. Is it possible to have your statement...? I guess we'll have it in the blues, but I wonder whether you could again go over the regulatory management modernization that needs to be done. I would like those comments again, please.Agricultural productsCompetitionFood and beverage manufacturing industryInnovationModernizationRegulation3727338BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexCarlaVentin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1150)[English]You might be able to go back to that answer later on in my questioning, but because of time I'd like to go to Mr. Schwanen.I was really interested to read the August 2012 report by the C.D. Howe Institute that stated:Canada's productivity performance over the past decade was among the worst among OECD.The report lists many reasons for this, as you are aware. Some of these reasons were: business leader risk aversion, inefficient and ineffective private sector support for innovation, lack of risk capital for start-up companies, chronic underinvestment in machinery and equipment, sheltering of the Canadian economy, and increasing competition for human capital.What factors among these listed in the C.D. Howe report are expected to be affected by the GMAP?8525-412-5 Global Markets Action PlanInnovationInternational tradeInvestmentMachinery and equipmentMarkets37245123724513JohnCurtisDanielSchwanen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1235)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses for coming forward.I have one quick question for Mr. Myers. Correct me if I am wrong. In the beginning of your presentation you spoke about different things that need to be done in terms of business investment. You want to grow investment and capacity building. Were you advocating for the government to invest in these areas directly or indirectly? Did I understand you correctly?8525-412-5 Global Markets Action PlanGovernment assistanceInnovationInternational tradeMarkets3724658RobMerrifieldHon.YellowheadJaysonMyers//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau (Berthier—Maskinongé, NDP): (1545)[English] I'd like to thank both of our witnesses for their presentations and interesting comments. I'd like to start with Bill Emmott. You mentioned the proAction initiative. I was wondering if you could go into detail and explain to us what that is, and maybe give us some examples on how farmers are innovating nowadays.Agricultural productsCompetitionDairy industryInnovationSustainable development37147593714760BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexBillEmmott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1545)[English]Can you expand on some of the projects that are being studied in some of the new research facilities?Agricultural productsCompetitionDairy industryInnovationScientific research and scientists3714765BillEmmottBillEmmott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1545)[English]We've had witnesses at committee speak of a brain drain in Canada, where we have brilliant people leaving to go to other countries. I was just wondering if you have experienced that. I guess that question applies to both witnesses.Agricultural productsBrain drainCompetitionDairy industryInnovationScientific research and scientists3714769BillEmmottBillEmmott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1545)[English]Mr. Brandle, do you have any comments?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3714771BillEmmottJimBrandle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1545)[English]I really enjoyed your definition of research and innovation, how innovation is really the implementation of the research. I was wondering if you could comment on the agri-innovation program. Is it adopted in your sectors? Is that something your sectors use often? Is it accessible to everybody, or are there unsatisfactory delays within that program?Agricultural productsAgriInnovation ProgramCompetitionInnovation3714775JimBrandleJimBrandle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault (Joliette, NDP): (1605)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to thank the witnesses for joining us this afternoon.Mr. Emmott, in your brief, you mention that journalists who visited a robotic dairy farm were surprised at how popular the back scratcher was. The cows really enjoyed having their backs scratched by the automatic scratcher. I represent the riding of Joliette in Quebec. When I toured farms in the region, there was a dairy farm that had the same apparatus, and the cows seemed to like it.A lot of innovation is at work. In that particular farm, the milking was done automatically. Cows didn't necessarily go based on their needs, because the robot recognized they had just been milked. If a cow was developing mastitis, the milk would go into another container, not the milk tank. It's a very innovative local farm.What are your facilities like in Quebec, and what are your operations?Agricultural productsCompetitionDairy industryInnovationProvince of QuebecRoboticsScientific research and scientists37148463714847371484837148493714850BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexBillEmmott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1610)[Translation]Less than 5% of Canada's farms are robotic, but I have no doubt we'll see more and more of them over time, given the flexibility robotic farms offer families. Of course, it's very costly and requires a tremendous investment on their part.Turning to cheese now, I heard you say in your presentation that we needed to do more to promote Canadian-made cheeses. Some people are quite glad to have more French cheeses coming to Canada, but at the end of the day, our cheese farmers are going to lose money.What can we do to make our cheeses more popular?Agricultural productsCheeseCompetitionInnovationLocal products371485337148543714855BillEmmottBillEmmott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1610)[Translation]You're absolutely right. People want to buy their cheese from the farm around the corner. But what about supermarkets, where the products are all mixed up? How can people tell the difference between Canadian cheeses and imported ones? It's no problem when consumers buy cheese straight from the farms—which I have in my riding. But how can they tell Canadian cheeses apart at the grocery store or supermarket?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3714857BillEmmottBillEmmott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1610)[Translation]Products have a very clear label, which helps people buy local.Do I still have a bit of time, Mr. Chair?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation37148593714860BillEmmottBevShipleyLambton—Kent—Middlesex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1645)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My question is for Mr. Chesnais.In the April 2nd edition of La Terre de chez nous, it says your company is one of the top three in the world. That's wonderful. Congratulations.You said that, in Canada, the dairy market is protected, but not the genetics one. Could you kindly explain why the genetics market isn't protected in Canada?Agricultural productsCompetitionDairy cowsDairy industryGeneticsInnovationSemex Alliance3714960371496137149623714963BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexJacquesChesnais//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1645)[Translation]That isn't always easy.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3714965JacquesChesnaisJacquesChesnais//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1645)[Translation]Semex's board of directors has four members from Quebec. The La Terre de chez nous article also mentions the fact that you have to make some incredibly difficult decisions when it comes to divvying up the genomic semen of young bulls between Canada and other countries. Could you please elaborate on that?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3714967JacquesChesnaisJacquesChesnais//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1645)[Translation]Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada has significantly reduced its involvement in genetic research over the past 20 years. The thinking was Canadian universities could be relied on to fill that gap and do the research, but they have financial troubles as well and are victims of the brain drain.How do you see the future in this field?Agricultural productsBudget cutsCompetitionDepartment of Agriculture and Agri-FoodGeneticsInnovationScientific research and scientists37149703714971JacquesChesnaisJacquesChesnais//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1650)[Translation]What is the biggest reason for our researchers wanting to work in New Zealand, for example?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3714974JacquesChesnaisJacquesChesnais//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1710)[English]Mr. Watts, I'm a vegetarian, so I'm a big consumer of pulses, chickpeas, beans. My son often tells me, “I don't want any more beans, Mom. Let's fire up the barbecue.” He's tired of it.I am wondering if you could comment on the programs that the government has in place right now, agri-innovation, agri-marketing. We've heard from some other witnesses that they would hope there would be more of a long-term vision. The programs are a few years right now. We've even had some witnesses talk about maybe a 10-year vision. I wonder if you could comment on that.Also, maybe you could comment on what's up and coming in the world of pulses, what is hot in the world of beans. What kind of research and innovation needs to be done in certain cultures more than others?Agricultural productsCompetitionGrain legumeInnovationScientific research and scientists371506037150613715062BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexPeterWatts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1715)[English]My office is situated in Louiseville, Quebec. Every year we have a buckwheat festival, and two years ago, I was la présidente d'honneur. Buckwheat is something that we produce a lot of in my area. It's very important. I was wondering if you could comment on climate change and how important it is, or on what kind of work you guys do for research and innovation, because we do see more and more unpredictable weather.Agricultural productsClimate change and global warmingCompetitionGrain legumeInnovation37150693715070PeterWattsPeterWatts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau (Berthier—Maskinongé, NDP): (1550)[English] I'd like to thank our witnesses for their presentations and also welcome the students. It's always nice to have more people come in and take an interest in the ag committee.I'll start with two questions that apply to both of you. On Monday we had witnesses come in who commented on the fact that we are losing scientists. We are losing specialists to other countries. I was wondering if that is something you have encountered in your fields of expertise. If so, what can be done to counter that in order to keep the bright minds here and maybe attract more?The second question is about the agri-innovation program. Has it encouraged R and D in our industry? What works and what doesn't work? What can we do when it comes to recommendations to make it better if needed?Agricultural productsAgriInnovation ProgramBrain drainCompetitionHorticultureInnovationScientific research and scientistsSeed growing3708971370897237089733708974BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexAnneFowlie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1600)[English]We also heard on Monday how the current programs have been kind of piecemeal over the past few years. Forward thinking and long-term vision are not things we see a lot of with the government, and those were things they called for on Monday. It's nice to hear again today that it's something the government should look at doing.You mentioned bees and pollinators, and those are very important to agriculture, because without bees we will not have pollination and we will not have food. We've had witnesses come before committee and talk about bee losses, and about how this year we will probably have some more bee losses. I was wondering if you could speak to the importance of the government investing more into research when it comes to bee health, because we all know it's very important to agriculture and industry and our future.Agricultural productsBeesCompetitionInnovationPollination370898237089833708984PattyTownsendBevShipleyLambton—Kent—Middlesex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault (Joliette, NDP): (1615)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you, ladies, for being with us today. I would also like to thank the students for being here.Ms. Townsend, on line 12 of page 2 of your document, you say:All of these and other advances are entering the innovation pipeline at a rapid pace and hold great promise for farmers and consumers. The question becomes whether and how Canadian farmers will be able to access these advances.Could you expand on that? You also say:The answer is: Only when Canada's policy and regulatory environment facilitates investment.Could you expand on that? Because on the next page, you say that there hasn't been a real improvement in investments in oats and pulses.Why have these two products not benefited from significant investments? Is it because they are not profitable? Is it because people no longer eat them and no longer eat enough pulses?Agricultural productsCompetitionGrain legumeInnovationInvestmentOat growing37090613709062370906337090643709065370906637090673709068BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexPattyTownsend//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1620)[Translation]So elsewhere, where it is profitable.Ms. Fowlie, on page 11 of your document, in your message as executive vice-president of the Canadian Horticultural Council, you say:An even more devastating blow was the mid-November announcement that Heinz would be closing its Leamington, ON facility in 2014, putting 740 full-time workers out of work. It has been estimated that for every job in the plant, there were 2.5 to four jobs created outside of the plant.This is a very significant job loss. That business closed its doors after being in operation for 104 years.What happened to the agricultural producers? I have been an agricultural producer. I grew small cucumbers for a company I won't name that also saw that it would be cheaper and more profitable to have their crop grown outside Canada.Quebec producers—I am, indeed, from Quebec, from the Joliette region, which is my constituency—this entire agriculture industry was lost and, as a result, so were student summer jobs and the transformation that was occurring in the region.What happened to all these producers? How did they reorient themselves?Agricultural productsCompetitionH.J. Heinz Company of CanadaHorticultureInnovationLeamingtonPlant closures3709074370907537090763709077370907837090793709080PattyTownsendAnneFowlie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1645)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would also like to thank our witnesses for being here.I am an MP from Joliette, north of Montreal. We have a lot of poultry producers in my riding, especially in Saint-Félix-de-Valois. Of course, there are hatcheries there. Poultry is raised there, and there are processing plants. The poultry industry in my riding employs a lot of people.As an aside, I sold poultry, laying hens, to be exact. People asked me why the truck was empty in the middle of the day. It's because you don't load poultry during the day. You do it at night because poultry get a little worked up during the day. In any case, when I was doing it, we loaded the trucks at night.I have the French version of your document. It says that Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada indicated that farmers had generated farm cash receipts of close to $3.7 billion through poultry sales. That's a lot of money. That's 7% of all receipts from the sale of agricultural products.Let's talk about innovation. A little further on in your document, it says that no researchers are really devoting their work to the poultry industry anymore. Will the fact that fewer researchers are focusing on that industry negatively affect it?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovationPoultry industryScientific research and scientists370915537091563709157370915837091593709160BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexBruceRoberts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1650)[Translation]There are also commercial barriers that are negatively affecting your industry, such as spent hens from the United States, and that are moving into the Canadian market. Is this disguised dumping going to hinder the capacity for innovation in your industry?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3709162BruceRobertsBruceRoberts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1650)[Translation]Perfect. Thank you.I'm not talking about spent hens that come from the United States, but those that are in Canada. Once the hens are done laying or the roosters are done serving, does the industry get assistance to create new products or improve products that are already on the market? We know that this meat is not put in the garbage.What does your industry do exactly to help all these poultry breeders when they come to the end of their active life in the industry? Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation370916637091673709168BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexBruceRoberts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1720)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I'm going to share my time with my colleague.Last summer, I visited agricultural enterprises in my riding. I visited one farm raising rotisserie chickens. There were thousands of chicks in a large building where the heat, humidity and water were controlled electronically. The farmers, a father-daughter business, were taking good care of their animals.We often hear in committee meetings that the agriculture and agri-food industry is quite regulated. Do you think federal regulation helps you in your activities or does it have a negative impact? Could you give us an example of a regulation that affects you negatively or that you benefit from?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovationPoultry industryRegulation370928237092833709284BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexBruceRoberts//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau (Berthier—Maskinongé, NDP): (1545)[English]Thank you, Chair. I'd like to thank our witnesses for being here. Mr. Prouse, and Mr. Yarrow, I think we've seen each other quite often. It's not the first time you've come to committee in recent weeks, I would say. I have a few questions for Genome Prairie. I think this is the first time I've seen you at committee. You talked a lot about the accomplishments, innovations, and work you've done to improve yields of wheat and rye—I think you said by 30% to 40%. You even talked about dairy genomics. I think it was two years ago that I had the chance to go to Centre d'insémination artificielle du Québec, and we talked a lot about Starbuck and all the work that was done with artificial insemination when it came to bovine genetics. I was just wondering if you could maybe comment more on how you see the federal government fostering innovation, and what kind of things or recommendations you'd like to see come out of this committee work. Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation369903836990393699040369904136990423699043BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexRenoPontarollo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1550)[English]It could be dairy or anything in general. Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3699045RenoPontarolloRenoPontarollo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1550)[English]Touching on that, how much do you think should be divided into public funding versus private sector funding, and how does it work? You seem to touch on so much. You mentioned the human genome, and how public investment was $3 million and that right now it's less than $1,000 and that you can do that work in under an hour.Agricultural productsCompetitionGeneticsGovernment assistanceInnovation3699048RenoPontarolloRenoPontarollo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1550)[English]Sorry, $3 billion.Agricultural productsCompetitionGeneticsGovernment assistanceInnovation3699050RenoPontarolloRenoPontarollo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1550)[English]I'm sure you're aware of Bill C-18, which will be debated in the House. I guess both of you are very supportive, as the bill...plant breeder's rights and how that is.... Do you have any comments on the bill? It's something we're going to have in the House in the next few weeks, I imagine, before we finish for summer break.Agricultural productsC-18, An Act to amend certain Acts relating to agriculture and agri-foodCompetitionInnovation36990533699054RenoPontarolloRenoPontarollo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1550)[English]Okay.I wonder, Mr. Prouse, if you could talk about recent examples of innovation and success stories in your department.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation36990593699060BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexStephenYarrow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette (Louis-Hébert, NDP): (1620)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I also thank our guests for being here with us today.Recently, a report on global competitiveness revealed that out of 148 countries, Canada came 27th and 29th regarding enterprises' research and development expenditures. The Genome Prairie representatives told us that ecosystem innovations would have to be optimized if we are to reach our full potential. My question is addressed to them.I would like them to tell us very explicitly how that ecosystem could be optimized.Agricultural productsCompetitionEcosystemsInnovation36991843699185369918636991873699188BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexDanielRamage//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1625)[Translation]Thank you.There were several important words in your reply. You talked in particular about research, development and education. The word “innovation” is often used very loosely, but it really means, as you said, research and development.There is a university in my riding and it has an agriculture faculty that conducts research. I am told that investments in research are going down. I would like to know whether you think that this should be changed, and whether this type of research should once again be increased so that it lines up more closely with basic research and is of benefit to Canadian agriculture.Agricultural productsCompetitionGovernment assistanceInnovationScientific research and scientists369919536991963699197DanielRamageRenoPontarollo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1645)[English]Thank you, Chair.I'd like to thank both of our witnesses. I think you were very interesting. You had so much information, both of you, that my mind's kind of all over the place.You've talked, Mr. Hall, about Canada losing its leadership role when it comes to scientists. You said that on the world stage we have a lot of work to do to regain that and that we're losing people to New Zealand and other countries. Can you explain how that has happened and what we need to do to regain and maybe have a retention of these scientists? We all know that the research and development are very important, but it seems that we're not doing enough. Maybe we need to reverse some of the cuts to public research that we've had. I'm wondering if you could elaborate a little more on that, please.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovationScientific research and scientists3699259369926036992613699262BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexMichaelHall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1650)[English]We have programs and they do work, but they're kind of piecemeal. They're just for a few years. They're not long-term programs. I think Andrea touched on how right now they're at about 5 years, but we need something that's about 10 years long. Would you agree that 10 years is a good long-term vision plan that we should set up for these types of innovation studies? Would you agree that 10 years is a good amount of time?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovationScientific research and scientists36992663699267MichaelHallMichaelHall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1650)[English]Andrea, I think you had three recommendations. Can you just go over them again? I think one was for strong and stable increased funding. As well, perhaps you could define “high risk research”. Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovationScientific research and scientists36992693699270MichaelHallAndreaBrocklebank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1705)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I thank our witnesses for their presence here with us. What I have heard today is very interesting.There seems to be a common thread in your respective statements. What I mean by that is that one gets the impression that up till now there has always been research and patchwork programs, and that we are always lagging behind reality somewhat, so that we are having trouble keeping up the enviable reputation we used to have within the international community.Do you think we should be changing the way we do things, and creating a type of agile research and development ecosystem that could sustain your various fields of activity? This could be supported by public and private research in certain cases—it seems difficult to obtain the support of the private sector in certain areas of activity—which could also integrate all of the university and educational sector.I would like to have all of your comments on that. Ms. Brocklebank, please, you could begin.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation36993513699352369935336993543699355BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexAndreaBrocklebank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1710)[Translation]I wasn't criticizing industry; I'm just talking about how we do things.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3699358AndreaBrocklebankAndreaBrocklebank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1710)[Translation]How do you see the evolution of that ecosystem? As Ms. Brocklebank was saying, we have to tweak things, but we also need a vision of the future. Even if we are talking about food, as is now the case in all areas, high technology and research are major components in industry's development. Do you have any suggestions in that regard, aside from long-term funding, that would support you as well as the development of your products, and, especially, re-establish Canada's reputation internationally?Mr. Hall, what would you have to say?Agricultural productsCompetitionEcosystemsInnovation36993673699368BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexMichaelHall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault (Joliette, NDP): (1545)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to thank the witnesses for being here. It's a pleasure to have you.You talked extensively about innovation in the agriculture and agri-food sector during your presentation. In your view, what really fosters innovation in the sector and what are the main barriers to innovation? The question is for either one of you.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation367809436780953678096BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1545)[Translation]What are the barriers to effective coordination and cooperative working relationships?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678098GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1545)[Translation]You said you work with universities, but we know that scientists have been fired. Does that hinder innovation and research? Does having fewer scientists hurt your work?Agricultural productsCompetitionDepartment of Agriculture and Agri-FoodInnovationLayoffs and job lossesScientific research and scientists3678100GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1545)[Translation]Do you have enough funding to work with them?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678102GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1545)[Translation]Are you short on funding for more research?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678104GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1545)[Translation]What can the federal government do to encourage innovation in the next few years? What programs would you like to see?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678106GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1545)[Translation]The committee has heard from numerous stakeholders in the agriculture and agri-food sector in the course of previous studies.Would you say that the federal regulatory framework helps or hinders innovation, and why?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovationRegulation36781083678109GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1550)[Translation]I still have a bit of time left, if I'm not mistaken.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678112GillesSaindonBevShipleyLambton—Kent—Middlesex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1550)[Translation]The axe just fell on the Senator Hervé J. Michaud Research Farm in Saint-Joseph-de-Kent, near Bouctouche. It's shutting down.It's a shame to see research farms close. It means fewer scientists working on agriculture and agri-food research and innovation.What is your take on the situation?Agricultural productsClosure of government operations and facilitiesCompetitionInnovationNew BrunswickSenator Hervé J. Michaud Research Farm367811436781153678116BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexBevShipleyLambton—Kent—Middlesex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau (Berthier—Maskinongé, NDP): (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'd like to thank the witnesses.I want to go back and touch on a question that I think my opposition colleagues mentioned. Right now we have 19 research centres, is that right? When my colleague asked about some of them closing, you said that a few were consolidated, or moved elsewhere. I got a press release a few days ago about the cereal research centre. What kind of work did the cereal research centre do?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation36781843678185367818636781873678188BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1610)[English]In this press release, it says that later this month the cereal research centre will be closed. What will happen to the people who worked there?Agricultural productsClosure of government operations and facilitiesCompetitionInnovationScientific research and scientistsWheat and wheat growingWinnipeg3678190GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1610)[English]Then the work that was started by certain people will continue on until it's finished?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678193GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1610)[English]It goes on to say in this press release: When the federal government invests $30 million annually in wheat breeding it creates at least $600 million in value that is distributed among farmers in the form of better crops, providing income to pay wages, taxes....Madam Mithani, you spoke a little bit about international collaboration. Can you comment a little bit more on how that works and how Canada compares in investing in research and innovation?Agricultural productsCompetitionGovernment assistanceInnovationScientific research and scientists367819536781963678197GillesSaindonSiddikaMithani//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1610)[English]You also mentioned honeybees and work being done that is management-initiated, I guess because of the concerns over the last few years regarding the decline in honeybee populations. I was wondering if you could comment a little bit more on that initiative, because we've actually had witnesses come to this committee, and there's been a lot of work done in the Senate committee also. Could you follow that up and update the committee on what's being done?Agricultural productsBeesCompetitionInnovationNature conservation36782003678201SiddikaMithaniSiddikaMithani//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud (Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, NDP): (1620)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I very much appreciated your presentation. This is my first time on the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. I usually sit on the national defence committee, but I am learning a lot of interesting things.My riding, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, is a rural one. It is home to a number of research farms, including one belonging to Université Laval in Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures. So I'm interested in the issue. I'm glad my colleagues raised the matter of research farms. You covered the topic quite well.Now, in its 2014-15 Report on Plans and Priorities, the department is allocating $519 million to science, innovation, adoption and sustainability programs. How much of that money will go to research activities conducted within Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada?Agricultural productsCompetitionDepartment of Agriculture and Agri-FoodGovernment expendituresInnovationScientific research and scientists3678227367822836782293678230BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1620)[Translation]Will the amount be the same? Do you have an idea of the percentage that will be put towards that type of activity? The 2014-15 Report on Plans and Priorities has already come out. Does the department know yet how much of that funding it intends to allocate to innovation research? Would it be similar to the amounts in previous years?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678232GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1620)[Translation]It will be more or less the same?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678234GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1620)[Translation]Thank you, that answers my question.In the 2014-15 Report on Plans and Priorities, the department indicates thatAAFC will continue to work with industry to develop and refine a strategic direction and framework to focus and guide future research activities aimed at helping industry to capture opportunities. The emphasis will be on common, cross-cutting strategic objectives . . . .How do you decide on those objectives? How do you work with industry? Could you elaborate a bit on how that collaboration will be achieved and how priorities will be identified?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678236367823736782383678239GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1620)[Translation]If I understand correctly, industry determines the issues or concerns it has, and then, your department tailors its efforts around industry's needs.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678241GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1620)[Translation]Is there a consultation afterwards? Do you provide a list to key players in industry?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678244GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1620)[Translation]Thank you.I want to pick up on something my colleague, Mr. Lemieux, mentioned earlier. It had to do with giving our producers greater access to the European market, in particular. The European Union is known to have many more restrictions on GMOs, the use of antibiotics and growth hormones, and so forth. In Canada, our standards are a bit different.If our producers are to truly benefit from greater access to markets like the EU's, they will have to find new ways of producing just as much and getting the same results they do now using methods that aren't necessarily compatible with the European market.Has the private sector brought that to your attention as a priority? I am curious as to how innovation and Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada's programs could help our producers in this situation. Could you please elaborate on that?Agricultural productsAntibioticsCompetitionEuropean UnionFood safetyInnovationMeat3678246367824736782483678249GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1640)[English]Thank you, Chair.[Translation]I'd like to follow up on something my colleague, Ms. Raynault, touched on when she mentioned the closing of the research farm in Saint-Joseph-de-Kent. I know you can't comment on decisions the government makes, but I want to point something out. When the research farm closed, eight full-time employees, four seasonal workers and around seven students during the summer lost their jobs. Those job cuts and changes have an impact on our capacity to innovate and really support producers. Could you comment briefly on the work the research farm did and its mandate?Agricultural productsClosure of government operations and facilitiesCompetitionInnovationNew BrunswickSenator Hervé J. Michaud Research Farm36783193678320BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1640)[Translation]You're saying there's another research centre and there are other places that will continue to conduct research on tree fruit and berries.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678322GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1645)[Translation]Those people lost their jobs, but the work is still being done elsewhere. How many places will keep up this research? Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678324GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1645)[Translation]Yes.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678326GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1645)[Translation]How many projects were approved under the AgriInnovation program?Agricultural productsAgriInnovation ProgramCompetitionInnovationScientific research and scientists3678328GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1645)[Translation]Could we get a list of the approved projects?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678330GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1645)[Translation]Earlier, I asked about international collaboration. Which countries do we collaborate with the most when it comes to sharing information on innovation and research?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678332GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1645)[Translation]I may have time to come back to this later, but could you describe for us some innovative projects and research happening in organic farming right now?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovationOrganic farming and horticultureScientific research and scientists3678338BevShipleyLambton—Kent—MiddlesexGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1645)[Translation]I apologize for interrupting. Who led the work?Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678340GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1645)[Translation]It was a joint project with a university.Agricultural productsCompetitionInnovation3678342GillesSaindonGillesSaindon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, NDP): (1550)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you for joining us. I want to take this opportunity to wish happy holidays to you and your family, as well as to all public service employees who are working extremely hard, be it for us or for Canadians.I will continue in the vein of the questions asked by my colleague Pat Martin, the NDP critic for this committee. He talked about the military component. You said that $20 million was added to the military component and that this accounted for 50% of the total. We can assume that a $20-million amount was allocated to the standard component, for a total of $40 million.Research, development and innovation in the military field have helped develop tools that are just as practical in everyday life—such as the laser used in surgery. That is a very innovative field.Besides that $20-million amount, was any other funding allocated to the military, or was that amount simply transferred from another department to this one, which our committee is responsible for studying?Build in Canada Innovation ProgramGovernment assistanceInnovationMilitary equipment and facilitiesResearch and researchers354744135474423547443Pierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookePabloSobrino//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1555)[Translation]There are four components, in addition to the military one.Can you tell me how priority areas are selected?Build in Canada Innovation ProgramGovernment assistanceGovernment contractsGovernment expendituresInnovation35474593547460PabloSobrinoPabloSobrino//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1555)[Translation]The program was implemented through budget 2010. It was said that there were some shortcomings in the innovation pre-commercialization stage.Is that still the case?Build in Canada Innovation ProgramInnovation35474623547463PabloSobrinoPabloSobrino//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1610)[Translation]I have in front of me an article titled “Le Canada, cancre de l'innovation”, which basically means that Canada is doing very poorly on the innovation front, that we are something of a laughingstock. The article says that innovation is still the poor cousin of the Canadian economy and that Canada has received the worst mark possible—a D. The calculation is made based on the 21 indicators used by the Conference Board. And here I was, thinking that we were on the cutting edge of innovation.I am making a link between innovation and development. I don't know whether you are doing the same, but I do see a direct link myself. If we are a laughingstock, do you think that our future economic development is in jeopardy?Build in Canada Innovation ProgramInnovation35475353547536Pierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookePabloSobrino//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti (Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, Lib.): (0910)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you to the witnesses for coming today.My question is going to be the same for both witnesses, but my first question is for Mr. Casey. On more than one occasion you alluded to investment dollars as being the main criterion. In your case, you're going to need investment dollars to carry out your second phase, or whatever phase your biotech companies will be in when it's time to go to market. But you also said that your industry is transportable, so I'm a bit worried that if you do find investment, it would probably be easier to find investment in Europe; because of bigger markets, there would be more money available there.Won't the industries that you represent be easier to transport and take the jobs away from Canada? Even though the scientific and the research end is successful here in Canada, why would you want to maintain the manufacturing side if your investment is going to be coming from overseas?Canada-European Union Comprehensive Economic and Trade AgreementCapital investmentEuropean UnionInnovationJob creationTrade agreements34927203492721RobMerrifieldHon.YellowheadAndrewCasey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1205)[Translation]Mr. Patry, I really liked your remark on basic research as it compares to innovation. You said that we should not make too strict a distinction. In fact, that would be very reductive. Nevertheless, in general, there has been a levelling off of federal spending on research and development.I'd like to go back to comments made by the senior deputy governor of the Bank of Canada, Mr. Tiff Macklem, when he addressed the Economic Club in Toronto, in October. He talked about very grave concerns regarding the dramatic reality that some Canadian exporters eventually go bankrupt or turn to the domestic market. In fact, there are 20% fewer exporters. I would venture to say that there is a link between that and our shortcomings in innovation. Would you make that kind of connection?ExportsInnovationPre-budget consultationsResearch and researchers3469331IainChristieGillesPatry//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1400)[Translation]What a luxury. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I will address Mr. Macdonald.I am sorry I did not have enough time to ask Mr. Hodgson a question about the innovation report card provided by the Conference Board of Canada. In terms of Canada's performance, the Conference Board says that Canada's improved showing is fairly minimal and more a reflection of weakness among the other peer countries than of a stellar economy. It also says that Canada has been a chronic laggard on several of the more important indicators—notably, labour productivity growth and competition for global investment. Could you comment on the fact that we are so vulnerable and that we depend heavily on the rest of the world to save our skin to some extent?InnovationPre-budget consultationsProductivity34670873467088JamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducDavidMacdonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1710)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I want to thank all of our guests. I have learned a great deal. What you said about pumpkin seeds alone has taught me something. I will eat them a lot.Mr. Friesen, I was reading your presentation. I'm interested in the sixth item, where you talk about reorganizing the health care system to fit the current and future reality by retaining the one payer. However, you suggested that this should be done by opening up, organizing and regulating a multi-provider system, and you gave MPIC as an example—HealthInnovation337927333792743379275JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1710)[Translation]I'll take it from the top.Mr. Friesen, I was just saying that I have read your presentation. Under the sixth item you put forward for improving the system, you suggested reorganizing the health care system to fit the current and future reality by retaining the one payer, but by opening up, organizing and regulating a multi-provider system. Then you provided the example of MPIC.Could you tell us more about the MPIC example? In addition, I would like to know what you mean by “the one payer”.I will ask my second question right away.I was really surprised to hear that it was difficult to access other provinces' databases. However, some witnesses have told us that Canada was a land rife with pilot projects, that there were many best practices and that the goal was to make all Canadian provinces benefit from those practices. And here I'm being told that the data is not accessible. I am wondering why.HealthInnovation33792793379280337928133792823379283JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1720)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.My question is for Dr. Hudson.Earlier, you talked about ordinary Canadians—such as farmers or other ordinary citizens—who want to encourage Canada's innovative start-up companies. It's important to help them. I agree that interested and capable entrepreneurs should be encouraged. People do need to have certain skills to become entrepreneurs and go into business. Those companies need Canadians' support. I am a proud Canadian, and I like buying Canadian products.I was thinking of the people who invest in your company or in other similar innovative businesses. Do you think it would be a good idea for the government to create a tax credit to encourage people to invest in funds that help innovative Canadian companies?HealthInnovation3379310337931133793123379313JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulCraigHudson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1720)[Translation]I will let Mr. Tyrrell answer, but I just want to make a quick comment.The good news is that this program did exist, but the government decided to pull it this year. Labour-sponsored funds were investing in Quebec businesses. I am referring to initiatives like the QFL Solidarity Fund, which invested in Quebec companies such as Dermolab Pharma, an R & D lab; GLyPharma Therapeutic, an R & D company for medication in oncology supportive care; and Milestone Pharmaceuticals Inc., a pharmaceutical company specializing in cardiovascular diseases.So those labour-sponsored funds were investing in Canadian or Quebec companies, and the investors who wanted to encourage those companies and buy Canadian products received a 15% tax credit. Yet, the government decided to eliminate that tax credit.Do you think that the government should not only reverse its decision, but also expand that measure and perhaps even encourage other Canadian funds that may be even more specialized in the area of innovative start-up companies?HealthInnovationTax creditsVenture capital3379315337931633793173379318CraigHudsonJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti (Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, Lib.): (1630)[English]Thank you, Ms. Chair.Thank you to the witnesses coming forward. I'm not a usual member. I have a few questions.The first question would be to Chris and Chris. You talk about the national framework or mechanism, and you state three points. But I'm not sure I'm clear on this. At what point is money needed for innovation and at what point is money needed for infrastructure? Perhaps you can give some more information on that.HealthInnovation3367118336711933671203367121JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulChrisPower//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1630)[English]Infrastructure would be a structure in place, not equipment or anything hard, visible, or tangible.HealthInnovation3367124ChrisPowerChrisPower//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1630)[English]But when you talk about infrastructure, the hospital facilities are already there. Is the equipment already there as well to conduct the research, or is equipment needed to conduct the research?HealthInnovationMedical research3367128ChrisPaigeChrisPaige//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1630)[English]Your recommendation would be that the government fund all of it.HealthInnovation3367130ChrisPaigeChrisPaige//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1630)[English]Is there not matching federal funds available when the federal government provides money, depending on the program you're going to get?HealthInnovation3367132ChrisPaigeChrisPaige//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1630)[English]That is fine, but you're still asking for provincial dollars. At what point do you draw the line? At what point do you say that the federal government is going to hand it over to the provincial government? The provincial government is always going to want to have a say or some type of control.HealthInnovation3367134ChrisPaigeChrisPaige//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1635)[English] And take over the technologies and the innovation. Would you be able to resell that, or is it just the hospitals that would be the customers for that innovation?HealthInnovation3367136ChrisPaigeChrisPaige//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1635)[English]Where would the private sector be? Would it be outside the country or within the country?HealthInnovation3367138ChrisPaigeChrisPaige//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1635)[English]My next question is to Mr. Kirkconnell. You gave some stats, but not too many. In terms of dollars, how much does BDC invest in innovation, as you called it?HealthInnovation33671403367141ChrisPaigePaulKirkconnell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1635)[English]Okay.HealthInnovation3367143PaulKirkconnellPaulKirkconnell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1635)[English]Of the $145 million, how much would be in the health care sector? A percentage.HealthInnovation3367145PaulKirkconnellPaulKirkconnell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1635)[English]Is that part of the strategic plan, how much you're going to put into innovation itself and then how much is going to go into the health care sector? Is that a year-to-year decision that the bank makes?HealthInnovation3367147PaulKirkconnellPaulKirkconnell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1635)[English]What's the total budget for BDC? It's in the billions, right?HealthInnovation3367149PaulKirkconnellPaulKirkconnell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1635)[English]So $145 million would be just a fraction, or that's just a yearly—HealthInnovation3367151PaulKirkconnellPaulKirkconnell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1645)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I thank the witnesses for being here with us.I don't want to be pessimistic, but since we began this study on technological innovations in the health care field, some months ago, the witnesses who come before us have all said practically the same thing, which is that Canada has good researchers, that is to say good scientists, and they are recognized internationally. We have also learned that Canada is rife with pilot projects, but that those who work on them work in isolation, and a novel idea could only with great difficulty become a flourishing business that could be of benefit to Canadians. Today, while listening to your comments about commercializing these innovations and all of this technology, it seemed to me that this is yet another challenge.What should the federal government do to find the missing link between an innovative idea and the applied use of that idea, for the greater benefit of Canadians?My question is addressed to anyone who feels they can answer. HealthInnovation336718733671883367189336719033671913367192JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1655)[Translation]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.My first question is for Mr. Haj-Ahmad.I very much liked the part of your presentation where you showed us slides that illustrated the run rate of these young companies that develop a new service or product. This requires a great deal of money, at several stages in the process. To my mind, it is comparable to the situation of entrepreneurs who work in the same type of sector. The reality on the ground is quite comparable for young innovative companies, whether in the health sector or other sectors.These young enterprises and entrepreneurs have trouble making ends meet on a daily basis. There are a lot of lean years, a lot of financial insecurity, before they can move to the next stage. It was also mentioned a little earlier that seeking funding from numerous organizations demands a lot of paperwork.Moreover, the Canadian brains who design these innovative products wind up losing their intellectual property. In many cases, they sell it to a larger business. In one way, that is a good thing, since that is how things are done in the free market. However, they do so mostly out of disappointment. They want to finally make some money, but this prevents them from bringing their projects to fruition, from going from being small players to being medium players, and then big ones. We often witness this cannibalistic effect.Would you have any solution to propose to allow them to distance themselves from that model, something that would help these young businesses to develop naturally?HealthInnovation336723033672313367232336723333672343367235JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulYousefHaj-Ahmad//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1720)[English]Thank you, Chair.I just want to ask a couple of quick questions. Mr. Casey, for BIOTEC, is it an annual $400 million that you get, or is that what the fund has right now? HealthInnovation336733333673343367335JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulAndrewCasey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1720)[English]How much for life sciences? HealthInnovation3367337AndrewCaseyAndrewCasey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1720)[English]Okay. Is there a return on the life technology? Do you determine what a return is, or how do you determine your projects?HealthInnovation3367339AndrewCaseyAndrewCasey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1720)[English]Who decides how to distribute the money? Is it BIOTEC itself? HealthInnovation3367341AndrewCaseyAndrewCasey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1720)[English]Again, would it be based on research? Would it be based on development? Would it be based on hiring x number of researchers or buying x number of—HealthInnovation3367344AndrewCaseyAndrewCasey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1720)[English]Is it going to be up to the applicant to find a matching dollar or...?HealthInnovation3367347AndrewCaseyAndrewCasey//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1720)[English]Thank you.Mr. Haj-Ahmad, for me, when I envision research in biotechnology, I envision a scientist saying, you know what, we need to find a little green or blue pill, or whatever, to find a cure for cancer. And that's all that person is going to do.Now you turn around and say they should be doing something else so they can earn money while they're looking for a cure for cancer. How do I reconcile the two? Maybe you were lucky, or are you one of the few lucky ones? HealthInnovation336734933673503367351AndrewCaseyYousefHaj-Ahmad//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1725)[English]So as you're doing the research, you're coming up with a new discovery and a—HealthInnovation3367354YousefHaj-AhmadYousefHaj-Ahmad//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1725)[English]But even that takes money, does it not?HealthInnovation3367358YousefHaj-AhmadYousefHaj-Ahmad//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1620)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair. My thanks to our guests. I know there are a lot of rare diseases, as many as 3,500, and more than 80% of them are linked to genetic factors. I will get right to the point. In Quebec, we have a newborn screening program, which seeks to detect conditions such as phenylketonuria, congenital hypothyroidism or a deficit of acyl-CoA dehydrogenase in medium-chain fatty acids in the 24 to 48 hours after birth. Could you tell me if similar tests are done anywhere else in Canada? If so, that’s great. Are there also other tests being systematically administered at birth? My question is for Dr. Innes. GeneticsHealthHealth screeningInfantsInnovation3345231334523233452333345234334523533452363345237JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1625)[Translation]According to Orphanet, people with rare diseases are more psychologically, socially, financially and even culturally vulnerable, particularly because their challenges have to do with being able to access quality healthcare, comprehensive social and medical support, effective liaison between the hospital and general practice, as well as social and professional integration and autonomy. Innovative technologies could be particularly beneficial for people with rare diseases, but the rarity of the disease can create strategic difficulties. In your view, how should we balance the high costs of research and treatment of low-impact and low-prevalence diseases and the great need experienced by this small patient population. GeneticsHealthInnovationMedical researchRare and orphan diseases33452423345243Allan MicheilInnesJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35422ChristianParadisHon.Christian-ParadisMégantic—L'ÉrableConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ParadisChristian_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Christian Paradis: (1650)[Translation]I congratulate you on your clear French, colleague.The priority that clearly emerges from economic action plan 2013 is the manufacturing sector. We have taken measures since we arrived in power in 2006. My colleague Minister Bernier talked about cutting needless red tape, but there have also been tax cuts. The corporate income tax is now 15%, which makes Canada one of the most competitive countries in the G7. We are going to continue in that direction.Target sectors include the automotive industry, which will receive renewed funding of $250 million over five years. This is a major opportunity. We are talking about an innovation fund that drives a parallel economy in the automotive industry, which represents 440,000 direct and indirect jobs.Funding of $1 billion is provided for the aerospace industry over the next five years. There are also the technology demonstration projects that have been introduced in response to the Emerson report's recommendations. That is very promising.Once again, you can see that we are still targeting innovation and high technology. There is another aspect that the government wants to support, and that is creating innovation, but then it has to be sold or else it is worthless. That is where we generate added value in the country, where we create wealth. We have often heard about problems associated with access to capital. That is why we have established venture capital funds. In addition, as I explained earlier, $60 million will be allocated to incubators and funding will be allocated to the National Research Council so that it can create networks between universities, colleges and SMEs so that SMEs have access to that expertise.Lastly, we want to optimize the industrial impact of military procurement. Tom Jenkins prepared a report on the subject. In economic action plan 2013, the Minister of Finance clearly stated that we wanted to head in that direction, to structure funding so as to optimize impact in Canada. Even for Canadian procurement projects, various factors will be considered when hiring labour, for the first time or in other situations.This economic action plan is promising. I think that the measure we should not pass over in silence for the manufacturing sector is the two-year extension of the temporary accelerated capital cost allowance. This support of $1.8 billion enables people to acquire machinery faster, which increases productivity and, consequently, competitiveness.As we know, there is a productivity gap between Canada and the United States. A good way to resolve it is to interest our people in investing in better technology, which would enable them to do more with less. That is precisely what is happening now. We have observed a rising trend in recent months. There is more investment in machinery in Canada on a per capita basis than in the United States. So we are on the right track, but we cannot rest on our laurels. We must forge ahead. That is why it is important to adopt the economic action plan 2013. It will enable us to advance in that direction.Aerospace industryAutomotive industryCanada's Economic Action PlanDepartment of IndustryInnovationMain estimates 2013-2014Manufacturing industry3339311MikeLakeHon.Edmonton—Mill Woods—BeaumontPeterBraidKitchener—Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1615)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I want to thank our guests for joining us.As it is stated on the Orphanet website, “There is no disease so rare that it does not deserve attention”.Dr. Wong-Rieger, we know that 80% of those orphan diseases are linked to genetic factors. You also said that Canada is a leader in genome research, but it has unfortunately not been able to use that technology for a prevention or treatment program.Why has Canada been lagging behind in that area even though we have world-renowned minds and scientists? As you said, we are almost 10 years behind the U. S. and Europe. Unfortunately, Canada now has to learn from that European and American Orphanet.HealthInnovationMedical researchRare and orphan diseases33369253336926333692733369283336929JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1620)[Translation]Thank you. Thank you for those clarifications, Dr. Wong-Rieger.If I have understood correctly, you are asking the government to show some leadership and possibly create a regulatory framework, so that Canadians can at least benefit from the research carried out by our scientists.HealthInnovationRare and orphan diseases333694333369443336945JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulDurhaneWong-Rieger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1625)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.Normally, when I take the floor at Standing Committee on Health meetings, I focus on issues of national scope. However, since we are talking about rare diseases, it is appropriate to also discuss individual cases.In the municipality of Sainte-Rose-du-Nord, which is in my riding, there was a little boy named Miro Angers-Laurin. He had a rare disease called diffuse intrinsic pontine glioma. Only one or two such cases are detected annually in Quebec.When the diagnosis was made, the child had only nine months left to live. Miro's family, which I know very well, decided to spend those nine months granting him all his wishes. That was a nice thing to do, but, during that time, they refused to allow therapeutic trials that had been proposed because they were not very conclusive.Afterwards, they founded the MIRO foundation. That organization feels that it would be important to create and implement an international registry in order to learn more about that tumour and encourage research, since there aren't many such cases in Canada and the world.We can also draw a parallel with other rare diseases. Would Health Canada be prepared to support that kind of initiative and collaboration? Dr. Wong-Rieger said that it would be important for Canada to become a leader in the area of rare diseases. The government would show leadership by working with our other international colleagues.As a Health Canada representative, what do you think?HealthInnovationRare and orphan diseases3336969333697033369713336972333697333369743336975JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulDavidLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1645)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.Thank you to all our guests today.My first question is for the representatives from Gateway Rural Health Research Institute.Dr. Chang, you said that between 10% to 30% of the rural population suffers from a chronic illness and that their life expectancy is lower than in the past. How can you explain this? Is it because people in rural areas are becoming more and more impoverished and thus don't have access to healthy food?My second question is for Ms. Collins.You gave the example of the FDA regulating and verifying certain mobile technologies. Is Health Canada not the equivalent of the FDA? If not, could you explain the federal framework in more detail?HealthInnovation332372233237233323724332372533237263323727JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1645)[Translation]All right.Dr. Milne, I heard you say that there is much more focus on patient-centred care now than in the past. I fully agree with you. However, I am concerned because not all of these technologies are affordable. I fear that they will only be available to a limited group of people.Do you think the widespread use of those innovations which are really useful for tracking chronic illnesses will help significantly?HealthInnovation332374133237423323743JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1655)[Translation]Thank you very much.I would like to follow up on what my colleague Dr. Carrie was saying about self-empowerment. This concerns me a lot as well. First of all, I would mention that I am an MP from a rural region of Quebec, so I am very happy to see that there is a lot of attention being given to rural regions today. Also since I am a general practitioner, prevention is very important to me.More specifically, I would like to know what role the federal government can play in trying to improve prevention with the help of innovation and technologies. We addressed the question a littler earlier on. I mention this as an example, because oddly enough, the Auditor General published a report today in which he lamented the fact that $100 million was allotted to the Public Health Agency of Canada, Health Canada and the Canadian Institutes of Health Research in order to implement prevention and reduction strategies for diabetes.The government takes this matter seriously and has a role to play in preventing different chronic illnesses, both in urban and rural Canada. At the same time, the Auditor General is saying that no coordination took place.Therefore, a lot of taxpayers' money was invested in this and with no results to show for it. There was redundancy. I still have the same question: is the solution to add more money that will be poorly administered by some governments, or is it to coordinate our efforts so that people empower themselves?I will try to finish up my question. I imagine that evolving technology also has negative effects. People with diabetes or high blood pressure think that it's not a big deal, because they figure they can just take medication to solve their problems thanks to advances in the medical field. So they don't think that they need to take responsibility for their own health, do more exercise or eat better. They are happy to take their pill. Before long, it becomes a box of pills per day. I get the impression that on the whole, Canadians don't take their health seriously, or at least they don't want to improve themselves.HealthInnovation33237763323777332377833237793323780JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1700)[English]Dr. Milne, my opinion is that people in rural areas rely on the automobile, as opposed to just walking, as people do in the city. What's your thought on that? How can we make sure rural people walk more?HealthInnovationRural communities3323791MaryCollinsHon.KenMilne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1620)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I would like to thank our witnesses, Dr. Birtwhistle, who is here with us, and Dr. Quint, who is joining us by teleconference.Since we have been speaking about innovation, and that includes studies we have already done on chronic illnesses, we are aware that Canadians are not all in good health as they age, and that is an enormous burden for the health care system.Dr. Birtwhistle, I listened to your presentation carefully. You said that when people came to the end of their lives, new technologies decreased their quality of life. Could you tell us a little more about that?HealthInnovation3314449331445033144513314452JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulRichardBirtwhistle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1625)[Translation]You spoke about communication between patients and health care professionals, especially doctors.I'll give you an example from my own experience. I did my residency in Quebec City. When very ill patients came in, we had to ask the individuals themselves, if they were conscious, or their family if they weren't, if we should perform CPR if they had a heart attack or something like that. That was our approach. Since I don't practise anymore, I don't know if things are still done this way. During our residency, when we had an elderly person who was suffering, we always had to ask them this question first. It was a way of asking patients if we should prolong their life, as you said, or if our treatment should be aimed at palliative care.With respect to best practices, I would like to know if that is done in certain areas, to your knowledge.HealthInnovation331445533144563314457RichardBirtwhistleJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1625)[Translation]I would like to continue along those same lines.In fact, we did not just use that approach for patients who came to emergency and were suffering. I remember that, at the time, we even considered asking family doctors to discuss with their patients whether they would like us to try to resuscitate them using tools or medications, should a situation arise.I think this new approach could be more widespread across Canada. As you said, when someone comes to the end of life stage, the best thing is to provide palliative care, rather than try to resuscitate the person.HealthInnovation331446533144663314467JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis (Saint-Maurice—Champlain, Lib.): (1635)[Translation]Thank you.As I am getting older, I am very concerned about these issues.I am in no way questioning the quality of your research; it is very interesting.You spoke about seven provinces. Which three are not taking part?Do people, even researchers, have different attitudes toward these problems? It's a question of attitude. The programs are perfect, intellectually, but are we really trying to respect the wishes of patients? There is also what the family wants, but what the patients want is a priority.I'm from Quebec. Contrary to what Mrs. Sellah said, when my father was sick, his doctor, who was a woman, asked him what his wishes were should he have a heart attack. The next morning, he warned me that she had written in his report that he wanted nothing done. That was because my father, who was all there mentally at 90 years of age, had made that decision. No one even consulted me. I greatly appreciated that attitude. I think it is important.In your programs, do you place importance on respecting people's freedom?Also, why are three provinces not participating in your program, which is federal?HealthInnovation33145013314502331450333145043314505331450633145073314508JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulRichardBirtwhistle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1640)[Translation]Dr. Quint, is your organization, INTERxVENT, public or private?HealthInnovation3314517JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulSaulQuint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1640)[Translation]Your programs are interesting, but how do people communicate with you? Do you advertise?HealthInnovation3314519SaulQuintSaulQuint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1650)[English]Thank you very much.My first question is for Mr. Birtwhistle. In your presentation and in replying to questions, you mentioned several low-tech things we could use to improve the health of our seniors. You mentioned, for example, advanced care planning and patient portals. Are there any other low-tech solutions you would like to share with us that we could put in the final report as good examples to adopt and to share throughout Canada?HealthInnovation331456533145663314567JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulRichardBirtwhistle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1650)[English]Okay.In your presentation you also talked about sharing best practices between federal and provincial governments. Do you have any tips respecting jurisdictions on how we can improve our intergovernmental sharing?Best practicesData sharingHealthInnovation33145703314571RichardBirtwhistleRichardBirtwhistle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1650)[English]Thank you very much.My next question is for Dr. Quint.In you presentation you talk about preventive care, cost-effective care, and evidence-based care, and you also mention several virtual programs. It was a very good presentation, but what is the next step? How can the federal government really help the different industries related to health care or the different health care systems in the provincial governments to adopt preventive care, cost-effective care, and evidence-based care?HealthInnovation3314574331457533145763314577RichardBirtwhistleSaulQuint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1620)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I want to begin by thanking our witnesses for providing us with information about innovation, about repercussions on health promotion and, ultimately, about the Canadian health care system.We know that the aging population and chronic diseases are a considerable burden for the Canadian health care system. I listened carefully to what Ms. Elmslie said about the experiment that was conducted as part of CANRISK. I think this is a brilliant approach, and I know it is promising. However, as things currently stand, I am worried about certain generations. As Dr. Selby rightly pointed out, not all generations are keeping up with the computer evolution. I can confirm that, as my son is more computer literate than I am.Some of the new technologies used to support the management of chronic diseases can represent obstacles for patients because basic computers knowledge is required. People also need to have access to computers or other digital technologies. That obstacle has been referred to as “the digital divide”, which has to do with patients' economic status. Some technologies can involve costs for patients, such as Internet access charges or the purchase of smart phones.Based on your experience in innovation, would you say that patients have to be computer literate to be able to use those technologies?Do patients have to incur the costs of using those applications? If so, what, if any, financial assistance is provided to low-income patients?HealthInnovationMedical technology330595233059533305954330595533059563305957JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti (Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, Lib.): (1635)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, witnesses. This is very interesting.My question is going to be directed more to Ms. Sherrard.You were speaking about patients and using monitors and devices. It might not be the group, but I'm just wondering.... I'm going to make this very basic. I'm not trying to insult you in any way, but are we replacing a nurse with a technician or a telephone operator? I guess that's what I'm asking. If I'm going to be self-diagnosing through a monitor by having myself clicked into a telephone or by a mobile app, as somebody else mentioned, what happens to my practitioner? What happens to the specialist? What happens to the surgeon? How does this make me healthier?HealthInnovationTelehealth3306013330601433060153306016JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulHeatherSherrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1640)[English]Before you determine that 80% don't need medical intervention or access, don't they have to come in?HealthInnovation3306019HeatherSherrardHeatherSherrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1640)[English]After you've seen them one time? HealthInnovation3306021HeatherSherrardHeatherSherrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1640)[English]The next question would be, once you determine who are the 80% who don't need a follow-up or who need a small amount of follow-up, do they turn around and say, “I think I'm having a heart attack today”? You tell them they're not having a heart attack, but do they turn around the next day and say that maybe they have cancer, and then the next day maybe something else? Does this lead them to keep going back? Is this something else you're seeing?HealthInnovationTelehealth3306023HeatherSherrardHeatherSherrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1640)[English]I have one other question for you. You were saying that you call to verify that people are taking medication. How can you determine through a phone call that the person is taking his or her medication?HealthInnovationTelehealth3306026HeatherSherrardHeatherSherrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1640)[English]Particularly for some of us men, you were saying? HealthInnovation3306028HeatherSherrardHeatherSherrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1640)[English]How about you, Dr. Selby? You were mentioning these apps. It's the same thing. Do people go to these apps? Is it resulting in more people going to hospitals and getting themselves checked out for no apparent reason?HealthInnovation3306033HeatherSherrardPeterSelby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1640)[English]Have you seen it where it's not appropriate?HealthInnovation3306036PeterSelbyPeterSelby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1640)[English]There must be a learning curve.HealthInnovation3306038PeterSelbyPeterSelby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1645)[English]So it works both ways.HealthInnovation3306042PeterSelbyPeterSelby//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1645)[English]Okay.Ms. Elmslie, you mentioned CANRISK. What is it, a little machine? It's a questionnaire.HealthInnovation33060443306045PeterSelbyKimElmslie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1645)[English]Then what happens after you lie and fill out that questionnaire?Voices: Oh, oh!HealthInnovation33060473306048KimElmslieKimElmslie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1650)[English]Thank you very much, Ms. Chair.Thank you for wearing the daffodil today.Ms. Sherrard, I was fascinated by your example of a nurse being able to treat 30 patients during her shift, or during her day—contrary to five, or something like that—and for only an additional investment of $5,000. My first question is, why is it not done this way in every hospital across the country? Our ERs in hospitals are overburdened with patients waiting hours and hours and hours because we lack the manpower, for example. What are your thoughts on this?HealthInnovation33061003306101330610233061033306104JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulHeatherSherrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1655)[English]Do you think the federal government or its agencies have a role to play to spread this knowledge across the country?HealthInnovation3306108HeatherSherrardHeatherSherrard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1655)[English]It's fitting that you reply to my question, because my next one is for you, and it is based on similar ground. You talked about the need for a policy framework to ensure the sharing of medical information between the different lines. At present there's a lack of coordination, and there are a lot of hurdles between provinces and the federal government and so on. What do you think the federal government can do to improve the situation? I know the federal government has poured in a lot of money. Is the solution more money, or is it basically to play an active role as a leader?HealthInnovation33061183306119RobynTamblynRobynTamblyn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1715)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.We know that certain patients, who have a physical disability in addition to a chronic disease and even some other diseases, can suffer from a loss of dexterity or of their cognitive faculties owing to pain or other factors. In what way does technological innovation change the approaches used to manage chronic diseases in the health care system for those kinds of patients? In addition, do the innovative technologies designed to manage chronic diseases often present physical or cognitive obstacles for patients? We would gladly hear any examples you may have regarding those technologies. I have another question for you. Could you give us an example of a concept or change that was created to facilitate the use of an application for patients with a specific disability?HealthInnovation330619933062003306201JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1650)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.First of all, I would like to thank the witnesses who have joined us today, as well as Dr. Vendittoli.My question is for you, Dr. Vendittoli. I must admit that when listening to your presentation, I was surprised to hear that things are now worse than they were in the past. You mentioned chaotic introduction. I know you are aware of how things are being done elsewhere, for example in Sweden and Australia.Could you give us more details so that we can correct our problem here in Canada.HealthInnovation3288980328898132889823288983JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulPascal-AVendittoli//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1655)[Translation]Thank you.My next question is addressed to any of the witnesses.Could you provide the committee with an example of the situation where health technology assessments allowed the health care system to save money?HealthInnovation328898932889903288991Pascal-AVendittoliJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1655)[Translation]You have just raised one of the principles of the Canada Health Act, accessibility. You said that results are better if this is done within 48 hours. However, we know very well that our health care system is not perfect for the time being.How could we correct this?HealthInnovation32889963288997AndrewWilliamsJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1700)[English]Thank you very much.I would first like to say that I'm glad to be back with you guys after two weeks being away in my riding.My questions are also for Mr. Shepitka. You mentioned in your presentation the different challenges to upgrade existing infrastructure to become mobile-friendly work environments. It kind of boils down to money. It is a big question, but if you can answer this, it would be fantastic. What kinds of funding programs do you think would be appropriate to fund exactly what you would like to implement this transition for work environments—hospitals or emergency care—to become mobile-friendly? HealthInformation technologyInnovation328902232890233289024JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulBrandenShepitka//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1700)[English]Thank you. That's interesting. I do know that the Conservative government is still putting money into the infrastructure fund and I hope that what you desire can be included in such an infrastructure program. If not, it might be a good pointer for those on the other side of the table.You also mentioned the software program. I suppose compatibility issues are also part of the problem you mentioned. I would like to have your input on this. Several witnesses mentioned there were some compatibility issues because of all the different software and no regulations to have something unified. For example, patient files at the local drug store cannot be read at the local hospital, and those hospital files cannot be read at the local clinic by the family doctor because there are several authorware and software programs for different reasons.Is it also a concrete problem that you have in your emergency care?HealthInnovation328902732890283289029BrandenShepitkaBrandenShepitka//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1705)[English]You didn't have a lot of opportunity to talk. Do you have some final words you would like to express regarding concrete needs or solutions?HealthInnovation3289035JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulBrandenShepitka//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1635)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I have two questions.First off, I want to thank all of our speakers here today for giving us insight into pharmaceuticals and our health system, and helping us determine whether it can adapt to innovation.I have tremendous respect for innovation and its value, but my sense is we're putting the cart before the horse.That said, it's distressing to hear that one in ten Canadians cannot afford their medicines. So that group of Canadians doesn't benefit from the same accessibility, treatment or even modern technology.According to health economists, the total number of new innovative or breakthrough drugs being discovered has been stable, if not declining, since the 1990s. How do you account for that slower pace of innovation in the pharmaceutical industry since the 1990s? Is the pharmaceutical industry actually innovating or is that more of an illusion?HealthInnovationPharmaceutical industry326060032606013260602326060332606043260605JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1640)[Translation]Because it's profitable.HealthInnovation3260617Marc-AndréGagnonJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1645)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.My questions are for Mr. Gagnon.First of all, even though you didn't tailor your presentation specifically to us, I thought it was excellent, full of information that I look forward to absorbing later when I read it more closely. The more we talk, the more the same questions keep coming up, although we are delving deeper into the subject.The fact is the pharmaceutical sector is very lucrative, as we all know. I will explain what I mean a bit more afterwards. You showed where things stand on slides 6 and 7. The industry is even more lucrative than any other area of activity. Slide 11 illustrates what is, to some extent, idleness on the part of companies as far as focusing on innovation goes. They prefer to fall back on molecules that require less effort, but promise just as much profit.Furthermore, I'm glad my colleague Mr. Carrie mentioned an industry problem when he asked a question earlier. New molecules and new drugs are tested against placebos as opposed to existing molecules whose therapeutic properties have already been approved.Slide 19 shows that public financial support is a bad investment. At the very least, we could make public investment in the industry more effective, both federally and provincially.The conclusion I draw from all of that is there is too much marketing and too little innovation. You made four suggestions. We hope the government will take our study of technological innovation under consideration and adopt the right solutions. In the short term, what should we target first?HealthInnovation3260643326064432606453260646326064732606483260649JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulMarc-AndréGagnon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1650)[Translation]I agree with you, but I also wonder whether the government shouldn't endeavour to limit the marketing side of things.Before becoming a health professional myself, I was a medical secretary in an office. I have respect for pharmaceutical representatives, but I did observe certain things regularly. For example, to learn more about a company's drug, doctors would be offered the training on cruise ships. Ethically speaking, as a politician, I wouldn't be comfortable accepting that kind of reward-based training.Should the federal government do something about improper marketing tactics like that?Ethics and ethical issuesHealthInnovationMarketingPharmaceutical industry326065632606573260658Marc-AndréGagnonMarc-AndréGagnon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1640)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to our witnesses.Mr. Thurlow, we've been talking with some young people in the Toronto area who had some questions about the Oshawa ethanol plant. Young people and innovation are intricately linked because innovation will bring that economy of tomorrow and those are the people who will be dealing with the economic decisions we make. They asked me a few questions. One would be what is the 30-year energy balance for corn as an ethanol fuel source? In essence, what's the energy return on the energy investment, and furthermore, what guarantee is there that this product will continue to sell over a long-term period?Cellulosic ethanolEnergy and fuelInnovation32599543259955LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightW. ScottThurlow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1640)[English] Thank you for your answer.This next question goes to all panel members. It's quite simple in its formulation, but I'm sure it will generate complex responses.Do you believe that a price on carbon can be a driver for innovation?Mr. Mabee.Energy and fuelInnovation3259959325996032599613259962W. ScottThurlowWarrenMabee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1650)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.This is a very interesting discussion. In my view, the “polluter pays” principle makes a lot of sense economically. I hope that we will be able to continue that discussion later.Mr. Drouin, you talked about the importance of the scientific research and experimental development tax credit. Your suggestion was to improve that program, which helps small- and medium-sized businesses in your sector a great deal. However, we also know that, in the last budget, the Conservatives reduced the funding for that program by $500 million. What are your best arguments to convince the government to reverse course?Energy and fuelInnovationPolluter-pay principleScientific research and scientists325999732599983259999LeonBenoitVegreville—Wainwright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1655)[Translation]Thank you.Last week, I had an opportunity to visit an innovative company in my riding, Galex Systems Inc. The company makes photovoltaic solar collectors. They have spent almost a decade doing the research for developing the technologies. The tax credit for commercialization that you are proposing can also help those small companies. Thank you for your proposal.Have you looked at how much this tax credit would cost Canada?Energy and fuelInnovationScientific research and scientistsSolar energyTax credits326000532600063260007//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1655)[Translation]Thank you.My next question is for Scott Thurlow.Some environmental groups have expressed some concerns about the use of forest bioenergy. I can cite Greenpeace that says that it is wrong to claim that forest bioenergy is carbon neutral when, according to that group, the burning of biomass emitted about 40 megatonnes of CO2 in 2009 in Canada, more than all the vehicles in Canada for that same year. Do you have any comments about that?Cellulosic ethanolEnergy and fuelInnovation326001032600113260012W. ScottThurlow//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti (Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, Lib.): (1625)[English]Thank you, Madam Chair.Thank you to the witnesses for appearing.I'm not a regular member so this will be to clarify, to see if I understood some of the presentations.[Translation]Ms. Lehoux, at the beginning of your presentation, you said that the policy challenge is neither to increase the adoption of innovations nor to slow it down. Should innovation not be stimulated?HealthInnovation3242834324283532428363242837JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1625)[Translation]You said that 50% of new inventions are accepted. Is that correct? That many?HealthInnovation3242840PascaleLehouxPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1625)[Translation]That also means that 50% of projects will succeed.HealthInnovation3242842PascaleLehouxPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1625)[Translation]Are you saying that up to 70% of projects will fail?HealthInnovation3242844PascaleLehouxPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1625)[Translation]Okay. On one page, there is a breakdown of expenditures. I am doing the math and I am confused. Twenty-one per cent of the funding comes from the federal government, 23% from enterprises and 27% from higher education. If I add those three figures, I end up with 71%. There is still 29% missing. Where does that portion of the funding come from? HealthInnovation32428463242847PascaleLehouxPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1625)[Translation]But the others...HealthInnovation3242849PascaleLehouxPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1625)[Translation]Provincial? Isn't that higher education?HealthInnovation3242851PascaleLehouxPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1625)[Translation]That’s great, thank you.[English]Mr. Hoch, on page 4 in your presentation, at one point you were talking about needing more planning with innovators. I wasn't clear on who you plan with. Wouldn't it just be your customer? Who would your customer be? Wouldn't it just be your patient, or the hospital that delivers? It wasn't clear who you're trying to plan with.HealthInnovation32428533242854PascaleLehouxJeffreyHoch//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1625)[English]Wouldn't you have already planned that before? You just don't wake up one morning and say, “Okay, I'm going to discover a drug and see who it's for and where we're going to get our test people from.”HealthInnovation3242858JeffreyHochJeffreyHoch//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti: (1630)[English]This is where I'm having difficulty understanding. If we're talking about a process, I can understand it being more difficult if you're trying to implement an innovative process, but when it comes to a drug, isn't that completely different? The drug is for a specific purpose. It's not as if all of a sudden the drug changes its purpose and it's for something else.HealthInnovationMedical researchPharmaceuticals3242862DavidJaffrayDavidJaffray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1640)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I would first like to thank all the witnesses who are here today for their relevant presentations.My question is for anyone who can answer it.There are numerous academic, government and hospital-based organizations and agencies that undertake health technology assessments (HTAs) in Canada. The Canadian Agency for Drugs and Technologies in Health (CADTH) is a non-profit organization established by the federal, provincial and territorial governments in 1989 to ensure that policy makers have access to evidence-based assessment of the clinical and cost effectiveness of pharmaceuticals and health technologies.How does the work undertaken by CADTH differ from that of other health technology assessment organizations in Canada? Furthermore, in your view, what steps could CADTH take to coordinate efforts in health technology assessment in order to avoid duplication of efforts and possible inefficiencies in this area? Finally, in your view, are policy makers more likely to adopt the recommendations made by CADTH regarding funding decisions for drugs and technologies, or are they more likely to adopt the recommendations made by local health technology assessment organizations?Thank you.Canadian Agency for Drugs and Technologies in HealthHealthInnovation324290632429073242908324290932429103242911JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1640)[Translation]So that is the responsibility of the policy makers in each province. Okay. That is why pCODR is a good example. I noticed that Quebec was not included. HealthInnovation32429173242918PascaleLehouxPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1640)[Translation]Ms. Lehoux partly answered the question by saying that it was up to the policy makers in each province to make the decisions. Let me ask you another question. In your view, how effective has CADTH been in disseminating the findings of its research to policy makers, health care providers and other HTA organizations across Canada? Canadian Agency for Drugs and Technologies in HealthHealthInnovationMedical research32429243242925JeffreyHochJeffreyHoch//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1650)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair. My first question is for Ms. Lehoux. On the third slide of your PowerPoint presentation, you recommend setting up an intersectoral body. Do you know how much this initiative might cost? If we are talking about setting up new programs or new bodies, the federal government will obviously want to know what the costs are. HealthInnovation324294832429493242950JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1650)[Translation]Thank you. I will take note of that. On the sixth slide, you indicate that we have to preserve the future of care systems by focusing on design. But health care systems vary from one province to another. The provinces are basically the ones that can innovate on the ground, in their own health care system. How can the federal government innovate? Is it by setting up an intersectoral body or by creating something else that you have not mentioned yet? Furthermore, what do you mean by “focus on design”? HealthInnovation324295332429543242955PascaleLehouxPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1650)[Translation]Thank you.In your presentation, you said that it was unfortunate that foreign companies are buying our start-ups that have a lot of potential. You are not the only one to point that out. At other committee meetings that dealt with those issues, a number of people also mentioned that Canada has a commercialization problem. In Canada, we have an investment act, but it does not really apply to investment. First, the companies have to be worth at least $312 million, which is probably not the case for most start-up companies.Do you think we should use the act as a deterrent, by making specific amendments, or would it be better to focus on the positive side of things and should the federal government take these companies under its wing to some extent and help them in various ways?HealthInnovation3242958324295932429603242961PascaleLehouxPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1650)[Translation]That's fine, I will be quick.In your third message, you are saying to “design and market much more ingenious innovations than those that are currently on the market”.Are you really weighing your every word when you talk about innovations in Canada? Many witnesses we hear from are telling us that we are a country of pilot projects, but that we are unable to share our best things. Do you really feel that we are not ingenious enough?HealthInnovation324296632429673242968JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulPascaleLehoux//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1650)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to thank our witnesses for their suggestions and testimony.I will begin with Mr. Lavoie.I would like to have more information about the survey of your members regarding the scientific research and experimental development tax credit. I know that report was published a few months ago in the Research Money newsletter. Could you tell us about the findings of that survey?Energy and fuelInnovationManufacturing industryScientific Research and Experimental Development Tax Incentive Program324248032424813242482LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightMartinLavoie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[Translation]You also asked your members whether they thought that the elimination of capital expenditures eligible for that tax credit would lead to the offshoring of their research activities.Do you have any figures with regard to that?Budget cutsCapital investmentEnergy and fuelInnovationTax credits32424853242486MartinLavoieMartinLavoie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[Translation]Ms. Bak, you suggest that a strategy on green technologies be adopted. You also conducted a survey in January 2011 on SMEs' needs in terms of federal support for research and development.Could you tell us about the results of that survey?Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovationResearch and researchers32424903242491MartinLavoieCélineBak//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[Translation]I would like to quote an excerpt from your report. I only have the English version. It says the following: [English]In 2009, total BERD by Canadian clean energy SMEs was $512 million. For the same period, total BERD by Canadian clean energy large companies was $1.02 billion.[Translation]We see that investment in companies' research and development has been declining since 2008. That sector contributes a lot to research and development. It helps increase our budget and expenditures in that sector. I think that's a success.You also talk about the importance of establishing a national procurement policy.Could you elaborate on that?Energy and fuelGovernment contractsInnovation32424933242494324249532424963242497CélineBakCélineBak//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1710)[English]Mr. Lavoie, when the accelerated capital cost allowance came out, the Conference Board of Canada said it was a good feature to help adjust to the high dollar at the time. That was in 2007. They also said it should be temporary and not extended beyond three years. In 2007, as you know, it was brought in to help profitable companies with reduced profit margins due to the credit crunch among other global economic factors.Would you agree with their recommendation that it just be a temporary measure, or do you think it should be continued? The Conference Board believes that as a permanent measure it encourages an artificial investment into the manufacturing sector and perhaps not in the right areas, not the innovation-based sectors, but just manufacturing in general. Could you address their critique and counter it with your own analysis of the situation?Accelerated capital cost allowance programDepreciation allowanceEnergy and fuelInnovation324258132425823242583LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightMartinLavoie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1715)[English]We know there's all this private investment money that's being sat on, basically. It's about 30% of GDP, I believe, and as opposed to the United States, our investment here is divided equally between machinery and equipment, as you talked about. Manufacturing invests in that equipment and it drives productivity. The rest is in storage and transport structures. How can we move the private capital, private investment, more to areas that will drive productivity up?Energy and fuelInnovation3242590MartinLavoieMartinLavoie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1715)[English]The United States has 100% writeoff, is that not correct?Energy and fuelInnovation3242593MartinLavoieMartinLavoie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1555)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate your kind words for my witnesses.Mr. Meulien and Mr. Edwards, I understood your presentations perfectly. Thank you for coming here to explain genomics to us, as well as its importance and its impact on the health of Canadians.I fully understood what Mr. Edwards was saying about Canadian practices and the importance of being a leader rather than a follower. That being said, a serious concern remains when it comes to genomics, and that is the confidentiality and security of genetic information. There are also concerns about the potential for discrimination based on genetic information by employers and health insurance companies.In 2008, the United States adopted the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act to protect individuals against discrimination related to their genetic information by health insurers and employers.Could you comment on the challenges related to the patenting of genetic discoveries? And do you think that Canada should pass legislation similar to the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act in the U.S., to protect Canadians against genetic discrimination?DiscriminationGeneticsHealthInnovation32349933234994323499532349963234997JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulPierreMeulien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1600)[Translation]Thank you.In that case, does Canada have guidelines for the patenting of genetic discoveries?GeneticsHealthInnovationPatents32350033235004PierreMeulienPierreMeulien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1625)[Translation]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.Let me start by commending you for your questions. They are excellent.I want to say that I support technological advancements in genomics research. I believe they are key to the future of health care, both in Canada and around the world.Dr. Meulien, you did not reassure me, however, regarding the problem mentioned by my colleagues, Dr. Fry and Dr. Sellah. They raised the issue of discrimination based on genetic information and the fact that, unlike other developed countries, Canada has no anti-discrimination legislation. I'm glad Dr. Fry talked about private insurers, which you did not discuss. It's a good idea to examine that aspect.This morning, I met with representatives from a collective of organizations called Neurological Health Charities Canada. They told me just how much discrimination their members can face when they suffer from degenerative neurological conditions. For example, they described discrimination encountered by family members of individuals with Huntington's disease when those family members apply for jobs and attempt to access employer insurance plans.That kind of review of genomic information could lead to discrimination because not only could the person be denied coverage under a private insurance plan, but the employer could also consider it to be legal. Most people have a private insurance plan to cover various costs that are not paid for under the public system. Someone could be discriminated against for genomic reasons. An employer may not want to hire that person because the employer knows that certain risk factors are inherent to the individual's medical condition, which could end up being very costly for the employer down the road.You said that a number of people do not agree with you and do not think we are well protected in Canada. You did nothing to reassure me. Can you make a stronger argument than that? Otherwise, I will still have serious reservations.DiscriminationGeneticsHealthInnovationPrivate health insurance3235103323510432351053235106323510732351083235109JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulPierreMeulien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1625)[Translation]There's no problem in that respect. I understand your position.GeneticsHealthInnovation3235112PierreMeulienPierreMeulien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1625)[Translation]The same applies to employers as well.While I still have some time, I'm going to ask you my next question.You referred to illnesses where genomic advancements could help, type 2 diabetes, for example. Is offering people with type 2 diabetes some miracle pill to help their condition really the most effective and smartest approach to the problem? Shouldn't we instead be focusing on other types of prevention such as exercise, physical activity?I can see the benefit more in the case of rare diseases. When it comes to type 2 diabetes, however, I get the sense that people will just take their genomic drug, thinking that it will keep their chronic illness in check, even if they eat what they shouldn't and don't exercise. I wonder whether that wouldn't send people the wrong message.DiabetesGeneticsHealthInnovationLifestylePharmaceuticalsPreventive medicine3235114323511532351163235117PierreMeulienPierreMeulien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1630)[English]You mentioned that knowing some of the genes linked to diabetes could help have more specific medication. GeneticsHealthInnovation3235120PierreMeulienPierreMeulien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1630)[English]The overall condition. GeneticsHealthInnovation3235122PierreMeulienPierreMeulien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP): (1645)[Translation]Thank you very much, Madam Chair. And thank you for that welcome. This is my first time here but hopefully not my last.Today's presentations by our two witnesses were truly fascinating. Thank you both for being here.Mr. Edwards, I have to admit I was under the same impression as your mother. I thought that scientists discovered things and that terra incognita was still a driving force in their research. But it's clear from your graph that everyone's at the same party, so to speak.I fully realize that you are eager for Canada to take bigger risks as far as all those more or less neglected genes go. According to your graph, the United States, China and the European Union are working on the first 50 to 100 most popular genes, and Canada is working on all the rest, all on its own. Isn't that a bit of a heavy load for us to bear on our own?GeneticsHealthInnovation3235181323518232351833235184JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulAledEdwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1645)[English]Oh, okay. It's not a done deal.[Translation]Mr. Meulien, do you share Mr. Edward's opinion on our lack of initiative and risk taking? What could your organization do to help with that?GeneticsHealthInnovation32351863235187AledEdwardsPierreMeulien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1650)[Translation]Indeed, it's quite apparent that things need to be done, especially if we consider what you said at the beginning. We have trouble innovating because we don't understand enough about human biology. If we open up the gate a bit wider, we will increase our chances of finding cures and preventing certain diseases. This overcautious or conservative mentality does affect the health care system and people's lives.And I hope you will continue to work with that in mind.GeneticsHealthInnovation32351913235192PierreMeulienAledEdwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1650)[Translation]I very much like looking at medicine from the P4 standpoint, which includes a preventive and more participatory approach to care. I would say that, ever since the Second World War, our approach to medicine has been much more focused on giving medication after the disease strikes. We talked about diabetes, Alzheimer's and cancer.What potential do the human genome and genomics research hold for degenerative diseases?Chronic diseasesGeneticsHealthInnovationPreventive medicine32351953235196AledEdwardsPierreMeulien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1650)[Translation]What more can we do to improve the Canadian model?GeneticsHealthInnovation3235203JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulAledEdwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1710)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.My question is for Dr. Edwards.You co-authored a paper entitled “New approaches to rewarding pharmaceutical innovation”. And in it, you list some of the drawbacks to drug patenting. They include high drug discovery costs, decreased sales revenues and skewed research priorities that favour incremental changes to existing successful drug therapies over the development of therapies for rare diseases. You argued instead in favour of public funding for basic research, clinical trials and royalty or reward-based schemes. Would medically innovative drugs cost people less if public funding were in place?GeneticsGovernment assistanceHealthInnovationMedical researchPatented medicinesPharmaceutical industry323526732352683235269JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulAledEdwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1710)[Translation]That's a nice concise answer. Now for my next question.What impact might your suggestions have on medical innovation?GeneticsHealthInnovation32352713235272AledEdwardsAledEdwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1710)[English]Yes.GeneticsHealthInnovation3235274AledEdwardsAledEdwards//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1635)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would just mention that member Pat Martin is a carpenter so he knows wood.Our business at hand, which the NDP proposed, is to look at how we can improve our competitiveness globally by improving innovation. The idea isn't about picking winners and losers. It is about knowing your strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. With that, I'd like to ask a few questions of you, Ms. Cobden. I've looked at the report produced by FPAC. In the report, “Transforming Canada's Forest Products Industry”, on page 8, “Next Steps”, you say:With regulations in the works worldwide to address climate change, and growing public scepticism about the environmental risks associated with further development of oil sands and nuclear power, the time is right to showcase Canada’s natural advantages and international leadership in sustainable forestry.With that, do you believe that regulations addressing climate change can drive innovation, and thus productivity, in our economy?Climate change and global warmingEnergy and fuelForestryInnovation323764132376423237643323764432376453237646LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightCatherineCobden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1640)[English]Thank you.I also noticed in your report that biomass from trees fuels two-thirds of the energy requirements of your member companies. The surplus of that is sent to the grid.I had a chance to visit Dapp in Westlock County where they have a biomass plant selling energy to TransAlta, to the grid, powering about 600 homes. This was powered by Edmonton's wood waste streams. They told me that boilers from pulp mills closing down could be repurposed to generate electricity. Is this a possibility?BiofuelsElectricity supplyEnergy and fuelInnovationPulp and paper industry3237648323764932376503237651CatherineCobdenCatherineCobden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1640)[English]I was amazed that they had bioproducts such as the ash they were distributing to farmers as fertilizer. It was a fascinating and a very positive story.Could you table the two bio-pathways project reports with the committee?Energy and fuelInnovation32376543237655CatherineCobdenCatherineCobden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1640)[English]Thank you.I'd also like to address the green transformation program. The government claimed that the mission of the pulp and paper green transformation program is accomplished. It's kind of disturbing. The way it's presented is that it was a success and now it's over.Do you think there should be some sort of next step to that program? Are they consulting with you about a next step?Energy and fuelInnovationPulp and Paper Green Transformation Program323765732376583237659CatherineCobdenCatherineCobden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1640)[English]Thank you. I just have one more thing to add that sort of contradicts your report on bio-pathways, where you say:The government of Canada has already invested in the transformation of the forest products industry. But more must be done so that the industry can produce long-term plans and share risks and rewards in a more vibrant, green, knowledge-intensive economy.BiofuelsEnergy and fuelInnovationTransforming Canada's Forest Products Industry : Summary of fndings from the Future Bio-pathways Project323766332376643237665CatherineCobdenCatherineCobden//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1645)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair.[Translation]Thank you to our witnesses.(1650)[English]I'll be questioning in English. I can see you reaching for your earpieces. I have questions for Mr. Dickie. Thanks for your presentation. It was very complete. I see that you actually did a costing of your propositions that show total government revenues will rise due to the reform, and not fall. I found that very interesting.I was doing some reading and you cite the U.S. as being a model. I know that in the U.S. there are many low-income housing projects that actually include energy efficient measures. I was reading about a project in the south Bronx. There are some boiler-room houses with a microturbine system that actually reduces greenhouse gases. I know there are projects like this in cities like Boston and Chicago. I am wondering if you've heard of any best practices in Canada, or if you think these kinds of projects could be recreated north of the border for low-income individuals and households.Energy and fuelEnergy conservationInnovationRental housing3237695323769632376973237698323769932377003237701LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightJohnDickie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[English]Have you looked at the percentage of GHG emissions caused by housing in Canada?Energy and fuelGreenhouse gasesInnovationRental housing3237704JohnDickieJohnDickie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[English]That's a significant number. It's very impressive.Do you think Canada should have a national housing strategy?Energy and fuelInnovationNational Housing Strategy32377063237707JohnDickieJohnDickie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[English]It's a big question. Do you think it would help implement your recommendations into policy? Energy and fuelInnovation32377093237710JohnDickieJohnDickie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[English]No, but would it help?Energy and fuelInnovation3237712JohnDickieJohnDickie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[English]Thank you.I have some questions prepared for Mr. Young as well. Thank you for appearing before committee. I know that you've appeared before many other committees, including the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry in 2009. In your presentation, your organization asked the federal government to use “research, policy coordination initiatives, science and technology and worker adjustment programs” to fulfill its responsibilities towards first nations.Since then—it's been a few years—what kind of response have you had from the federal government concerning recommendations specifically contained within this submission to the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry?Aboriginal peoplesEnergy and fuelForestryInnovation3237714323771532377163237717JohnDickieBradleyYoung//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1650)[English]On the idea of going west, I don't think our leader would be opposed to that, but not Gateway. Any other project in another location, we'd be willing to look at—just not Gateway.Mr. Smillie, I'd like to revisit two articles that appeared in The Globe and Mail on December 5, 2012 and February 15, 2012, written by you and Eugene Lang. I'll read you a series of quotes. I just want to see if they're still applicable, yes or no, and if we could put them into the record as statements by you.You say that “It is naive to think that Canada can become an energy superpower given the labour market constraints we face and”—I emphasize—“lack of public policy action to address this”. Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovation322978432297853229786LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1650)[English]Thank you. You also say that “Ottawa should play a greater role in co-ordinating the efforts of provincial governments, industry and educational institutions”.Energy and fuelInnovation3229788ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1650)[English]Thank you. You recommend apprenticeship tax incentives. Have these been costed by any organizations you're involved with?ApprenticeshipsEnergy and fuelInnovationTax credits32297903229791ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1650)[English]I would love you to table them.Energy and fuelInnovation3229793ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1650)[English]Great.You said, that governments should be held “accountable for the billions of dollars transferred in Labour Market Development Agreements”.Do you agree?Energy and fuelInnovation322979532297963229797ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1650)[English]I see. You say you believe there should be a travel grant given to allow for labour mobility. Has this been costed as well and can you table it?Energy and fuelInnovationLabour force mobility3229799ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1650)[English]Thank you. You say there's no public policy framework to increase the skilled-labour pool in Canada.Energy and fuelInnovation32298013229802ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1650)[English]There is no public policy framework to increase the skilled-labour pool. Energy and fuelInnovation3229804ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1650)[English]Okay, thank you.You said there's a need for a pan-Canadian strategy for economic opportunity in the energy sector.Energy and fuelInnovation32298063229807ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1655)[English]Okay. That's for skilled trades, I take it?Energy and fuelInnovation3229809ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1655)[English]For the renewable energy sectors?Energy and fuelInnovation3229811ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1655)[English]For smart grid electricity distribution, you comment quite heavily on the need to maintain, update, and upgrade the electricity infrastructure going forward in the next 50 years.Energy and fuelInnovation3229813ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1655)[English]Yes, okay. Well—Energy and fuelInnovation3229815ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1655)[English]That's right.Energy and fuelInnovation3229817ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1655)[English]So you would support the idea of a smart grid and all the employment associated with that.Energy and fuelInnovation3229819ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1655)[English]Okay.That dovetails with what Roger Martin, the dean of the University of Toronto Rotman School of Management, has said. He said that more effective collaboration between businesses and universities could bring more commercially viable new products and services to market. I don't think I would disagree with what you say in terms of the skilled trades being part and parcel of innovation, and I think the quotes that I've read here and that we've put on the record show that there needs to be a greater level of coordination among governments, industry, and universities to push forward that innovation agenda. Would you agree?Energy and fuelInnovation322982132298223229823ChristopherSmillieChristopherSmillie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1655)[English]Oh, wow. I'm being efficient today.The Chair: Yes, you are.Mr. Jamie Nicholls: Mr. Petsinis, I noticed your comment that the government shouldn't pick and choose certain technologies to put forward. However, your company received quite a lot in funding to get through a rather difficult period. Do you not see that as the government perhaps picking one company over another company?Automotive industryEnergy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovation322982732298283229829LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightPhilipPetsinis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1655)[English]I don't want you to get me wrong. I like what you've testified to today and the direction you're taking. I just sometimes like to have it recognized that sometimes government does have to step in to help companies move in a more innovative direction. Particularly when they haven't been on that track in the past and they want to get on that track, sometimes they need the aid of the federal government.Energy and fuelInnovation3229832PhilipPetsinisPhilipPetsinis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1700)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you, Mr. Pyun and Mr. Laforge. I prepared some questions for you. I hope you'll feel less neglected.I am glad that you're here this afternoon. I represent a riding with hundreds of employees in your sector, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles. It's north of Montreal, right beside Mirabel. I would think you're quite familiar with the area.As you pointed out in your presentation, effective support for the sector requires political will. Your industry has been calling for that for months, if not years.As you may know, we also have an aerospace caucus, and I'm delighted to be on it. In the House of Commons, I've repeatedly asked the government to introduce a development plan for the industry. In November, the report of the review led by Mr. Emerson was released. You are, no doubt, very familiar with the report. It criticized the federal government for its lack of support for the space and aerospace industries.What do you have to say about the report? We hope the government will adopt measures in its next budget. Do you have any comments on the report's findings?Aerospace industryAerospace ReviewEnergy and fuelInnovation322985432298553229856322985732298583229859LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightPierre SeïnPyun//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1705)[Translation]Thank you.We also know that during the prebudget consultations, the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada made two recommendations.The first was to make labour and capital expenditures under the SR&ED tax credit refundable and tax-exempt at a rate of 15%.The second called for better funding for the technological demonstration of new products to allow the industry to remain competitive.Do you support that recommendation? Is your sector also affected by the tightening up of the SR&ED tax credit?Energy and fuelInnovationScientific Research and Experimental Development Tax Incentive Program32298653229866322986732298683229869Pierre SeïnPyunPierre SeïnPyun//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1715)[English]On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I didn't want to interrupt Ms. Crockatt during her questioning and I know it wasn't her intention to mislead the committee, but I think the record will reflect that nowhere in my statement did I endorse the Kinder Morgan pipeline project. I simply said that our party does not support the Northern Gateway project. We're willing to look at other places along the west coast, but I at no time endorsed the Kinder Morgan project. Energy and fuelInnovation32298963229897LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightLeonBenoitVegreville—Wainwright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai (Brossard—La Prairie, NDP): (1720)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Gravelle.I am from Brossard—La Prairie. We are dealing with the Champlain Bridge situation and, especially, as you no doubt know, the matter of the light rail transit system. We are very supportive of that project, one reason being that we understand the importance of investing in public transit.It is sometimes said that it would be impossible to build such a system in Quebec because of the snow and other reasons of that nature. Of course, the provincial government is the decision maker in that case, but we support the project and we want to see funding flowing that way.Could you talk about what the project would mean for Bombardier or other companies?Champlain BridgeEnergy and fuelInnovationLight rail transit3229925322992632299273229928ClaudeGravelleNickel BeltMarcLaforge//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1615)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair. My thanks to our two guests for coming here to shed a little more light on the issue for us. My question is for Mr. Sutherland. I listened carefully to your presentation. You said that Canada was the last of 11 developed countries in terms of access to specialized care. You also talked about the pay-for-performance funding policy, whereby payment is used as an incentive to health care providers to achieve a certain benchmark. In your view, could pay-for-performance funding be effective in promoting innovation in health care systems? Could you also give us an example of how this works in Canada or elsewhere, please? HealthHealth care fundingHealth care managementInnovation32285683228569322857032285713228572JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJasonSutherland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1620)[Translation]My question is for Dr. Guirguis.There are other treatments, other methods to combat obesity. The balloon is not the only one. Could you tell me if the material you are presenting here is approved by Health Canada? Could you then tell me if the balloon stays in the patient’s stomach permanently? Finally, what are the side effects and risks associated with the balloon? Department of HealthGastric bandsHealthInnovationMedical and assistive devicesMedical technology3228576322857732285783228579JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulEmadGuirguis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1625)[Translation]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.My first question is for Dr. Sutherland.That was a great presentation, but the information that you shared with us troubled me. You have made a sad observation. In fact, Canada ranks dead last in a number of areas, although we spend a great deal of money in Canada. You said that the provinces and the federal government are spending $60 billion on health care, $30 billion on drugs and on physician care, but that it takes about 12 months to see a specialist. That is a rather bleak picture.You mentioned a number of possible solutions to improve the situation. However, I do not expect changes to take place overnight. You mentioned the possibility of using residential and long-term care centres more to free up hospitals, to serve the people better and perhaps to even get people to be more independent in their own homes.Some health agreements were signed in 2004 and objectives were set. Some areas were more critical and the feds allocated budget envelopes specifically for those sectors. Do you feel that, in the next agreement, which should be signed in 2014-2015, we should make sure that there is funding set aside for long-term care?It is annoying, because the provinces are spending the money as they see fit. Would it not be a good idea to establish criteria or performance objectives for more specific investments, such as long-term care?HealthHealth care fundingHealth care managementInnovationLong-term care322860132286023228603322860432286053228606JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJasonSutherland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1630)[English]I just want to make it clear. In your point of view, you're saying that the next health accord should tie specific issues such as long-term care with federal funding. Are you suggesting that some of the money be delivered to the provinces if certain objectives were achieved?HealthHealth care fundingHealth care managementInnovationValue for money3228610JasonSutherlandJasonSutherland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1630)[English]Okay, good.Are you also saying that the national health agencies should have a bigger role or just disseminate the best practices more?HealthInnovation32286153228616JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJasonSutherland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1140)[English]—because I don't have any more time.I'm wondering, Minister, if you could please elaborate on innovation. I don't see many numbers. How much money will be spent on innovation?AgriInnovation ProgramCanadian Wheat BoardDepartment of Agriculture and Agri-FoodGovernment expendituresInnovationMain estimates 2013-2014Supplementary estimates (C) 2012-20133227225PaulMayersGerryRitzHon.Battlefords—Lloydminster//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1615)[Translation]Madam Chair, correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that, since the beginning of this study, we have been talking about new technological advancements and innovations in the health sector, and not just technological innovations. So the two can be viewed separately. Correct me if I am wrong.HealthInnovationRelevancy3222930JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1620)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.Before I get to my question, I'd like to make a comment, if I may. With all due respect to my colleague, Mr. Carrie, I found his questions about whether the witnesses were receiving money or not inappropriate. I just wanted to make that point, Madam Chair. Now, back to the topic in hand.My question is for Dr. Raza.I want to start by commending the two witnesses who are with us today. Their comments have been quite specific and relevant regarding the state of our health care system, a situation we are all very familiar with. They reconfirmed my impression of the health care system.I know your organization considers the progress in primary health care reform less than significant. The issue was a key feature of the 2003-04 First Ministers' Accord on Health Care Renewal. Why do you think we haven't made much progress in reforming Canada's primary health care? What are the major barriers to that reform?Accord on Health Care Renewal 2014HealthHealth care systemInnovation32229523222953322295432229553222956JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulDanyaalRaza//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1625)[Translation]I have one last question.Thanks to the input of all the witnesses who have appeared before us, we have learned that Canada is unfortunately a land rife with pilot projects. You may not know the answer to this. But what I'd like to know is how the government could take the lead in spreading these best practices to make sure that every Canadian, no matter where they live or how much they make, is able to benefit from those practices.HealthHealth care managementInnovation32229613222962DanyaalRazaJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1640)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Egan, I have a question on Energy Technology and Innovation Canada.There are 20 projects and 9.5 million in funding, I believe. Is that amount given out every year? What is the funding breakdown among partners, by percentage?Energy and fuelEnergy Technology and Innovation CanadaInnovation322086132208623220863LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightTimothyEgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1640)[English]Thank you.I was speaking last week with researchers at the University of Alberta in the energy sector. They told me that industry, when financing innovation, tends to be a bit risk-averse in order to protect shareholders' interests. I have two questions for you.Can you give us an idea of what kinds of projects industry would fund if it had a public partner to share a greater part of the risk? Perhaps you could give an example from integrated community energy systems.My second question arises because things such as the energy framework initiative are asking for carbon pricing. I heard this quite a bit in Alberta last week, that it can be a driver for innovation.Could you address those two questions?Energy and fuelInnovationNew technologiesPublic-private partnershipsRisk management322086632208673220868322086932208703220871TimothyEganTimothyEgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1645)[English]Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Egan. Is CGA not a part of the energy framework initiative?Energy and fuelInnovation3220881TimothyEganTimothyEgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1650)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you to our witnesses. I will begin with Marie-Hélène Labrie.Thank you for being here. I think your sector has an exciting history. You mentioned that you raised $200 million in venture capital. It is a sector that is also profitable and creates jobs.Regarding the project in Varennes, can you specify the number of jobs at that location?Energy and fuelInnovationJob creation3220920322092132209223220923LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightMarie-HélèneLabrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[Translation]That is impressive. Have you compared this with the oil sector to see if it is better to invest in one sector than in others in terms of job creation?Energy and fuelInnovation3220926Marie-HélèneLabrieMarie-HélèneLabrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[Translation]That's excellent.In your presentation, you mentioned the report by the Conference Board of Canada. I know it is available online, but if you send the report to the committee, it will be part of our evidence and we will be able to study it in more depth.Our committee has heard from Écotech Québec representatives. I know you are on the board of directors. Unfortunately, they weren't able to appear, but they sent a document in which they propose expanding the innovation tax credit to cover expenses related to commercialization. How would that tax credit work? Can you explain this initiative and why this mechanism is necessary for this sector?Energy and fuelInnovationScientific Research and Experimental Development Tax Incentive ProgramTax credits322092832209293220930Marie-HélèneLabrieMarie-HélèneLabrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1655)[Translation]I have heard other people in your sector or in the green energy sector talk about the risk of losing these energies if the money isn't there, if they don't have the capital to commercialize these technologies. Do you share their concern?Energy and fuelInnovation3220933Marie-HélèneLabrieMarie-HélèneLabrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1655)[Translation]Thank you.I think I have time to ask just one more question, and it will be about reducing greenhouse gases.If the Canadian government respected its international commitments to reduce greenhouse gases, could that have a positive impact on your sectors?Energy and fuelGovernment policyGreenhouse gasesInnovation322093532209363220937Marie-HélèneLabrieMarie-HélèneLabrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1705)[English]That's not a question per se, but I'll comment on your comment. First of all, natural gas is rapidly becoming a global commodity. It has to date been a regional commodity with three major global regional markets: a North American market, a European market, and an Asian market. The advent of really affordable gas is starting to change that, and the idea of moving gas from one market to another to bring efficiencies to overall markets is occurring. On balance, that's a good news story for the globe, because more efficient markets overall deliver a more affordable product. In terms of exports and their impact, as you know, my member companies are distribution entities dealing with customers in Canada; we're not involved in the export of natural gas. But because of what I just said about markets, we look on the export of natural gas as being a favourable thing, a good thing for Canada. Energy and fuelExportsInnovationNatural gas322099032209913220992ClaudeGravelleNickel BeltTimothyEgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1705)[English]Well, consumers can save money in two ways: by having a product that's more affordable or by using less of it. Those things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Energy and fuelInnovation3220994TimothyEganTimothyEgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1630)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I will start by admitting that I had never heard of health care co-operatives prior to an unfortunate incident that happened a few years ago. The Quebec Minister of Health asked RAMQ to investigate some allegations. In fact, 75% of health co-ops were making people pay to get access to a doctor, which is illegal. I would like to hear what you have to say about that situation.I would also like to know what the real difference is between a group of family doctors—a pilot project that was started in Quebec—and health care co-ops.CooperativesFinancingHealthHealth services accessibilityInnovationProvince of Quebec320390032039013203902JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulMichaëlBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1630)[Translation]I would like to know what the difference is between a FMG—a family medicine group—and a health care co-operative.HealthInnovation3203906MichaëlBélandMichaëlBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1640)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.My colleague Mr. Lobb had a good question. So I am going to continue along the same lines.Not too long ago, when I did my chiropractic training, we weren't using the new technologies much, especially when we had to practise in real life. I would say that I am a fan of technology at home and outside work, but at work, I cannot bring myself to use technology such as the video for the nystagmus.One of the reasons why health professionals in general do not use those technologies in their practice is the confidentiality issue. Just think of X-rays on the computer, for instance. That poses a risk of data leakage and, therefore, a confidentiality problem. I would imagine that the same goes for that video. It is part of the patient’s record. So it has to be in a secure place.Dr. Ballagh, could you tell me what you think about that and give me an example of where you need to use new technologies more and still be very careful about the confidentiality of patients?Electronic health recordsHealthInnovationPrivacy and data protection32039463203947320394832039493203950JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulRobBallagh//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1645)[English]Thank you very much.[Translation]My next question is for the representatives from the Conseil canadien de la coopération et de la mutualité.I know that health co-ops are well established in Quebec and that there are some in Ontario. Perhaps I missed what you said about this in your presentation, but could you provide us with an overview of how health co-ops have developed? I think this model has been very promising for a number of years, despite possible management abuses. Those are little details. Actually, I think that, when a community takes action to invest in resources, we are talking about a winning model, especially in a context where we have to deal with failing health care systems across Canada.CooperativesHealthHealth services accessibilityInnovation320395532039563203957RobBallaghMichaëlBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1710)[English]Thank you so much.My next question is for Dr. Dibble. Earlier you mentioned that it would be a good idea to have a federal grant program for medical infrastructure and for new technology. I'm not against it, but when we talk about asking for more money, one question comes to mind: what kind of number do you think would be enough for that federal grant program, and where should we take the money from? In terms of our current economic situation in Canada, money doesn't grow on trees. So we need to either cut something else.... If you have a suggestion as to where the federal government should move money around, I want to hear it.Government assistanceHealthHealth services accessibilityInnovation320406832040693204070JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulBradleyDibble//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1715)[English]Thank you very much.[Translation]My next question is for Mr. Béland.A lot of people are indeed becoming more familiar with the health cooperatives concept. In English, we hear more about community health centres. These are quite similar health care models. They may even overlap. Since you are a pan-Canadian organization, I would like you to tell us more about this system, and especially about the community health centres. CooperativesHealthHealth services accessibilityInnovation320408332040843204085BradleyDibbleMichaëlBéland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1720)[English]Okay, I'll be quick.[Translation]I think that a lot of people are afraid of cooperatives because they are under the impression that they provide medical care that should be free. Can you reassure those people so that they really understand the usefulness and complementarity of cooperatives?HealthInnovation32040933204094JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulBrigitteGagné//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1645)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Bradley are you familiar with the work of Pierre-Olivier Pineau? He's a professor at HEC Montréal.Mr. Francis Bradley: No.Mr. Jamie Nicholls: He wrote a report on integrating Canada's electricity sectors. What is your take on that? What do you think of integrating the various electricity markets across the country?Electric powerEnergy and fuelInnovation32035583203559320356032035613203562LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightFrancisBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1645)[Translation]Professor Pineau makes a compelling point, saying that the agreement on health could serve as a model. Health comes under provincial jurisdiction, but a national agreement governs fees and standards. Applying a similar model could prove very effective in bypassing the usual jurisdictional squabbles.Is that a good idea, in your view? Professor Pineau mentions a wide range of benefits, and the idea appears to have not just economic merit, but also environmental appeal. Do you agree that it would be a good way to go if we could get past the jurisdictional issues?Energy and fuelInnovation320356732035683203569FrancisBradleyFrancisBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1650)[English]It just seems to me it's sort of like the analogy of going to Mars. Why invest all this money to go to another planet when we have to fix the problems here? In the energy sector it seems the same way. Why put all our investments toward export of our product when we should be fixing the problems we have internally in the country? That's why I brought up integration.To talk about perhaps some of the lost opportunities, you mentioned before that there were initiatives that had started, but because of political problems, roadblocks sort of got in the way. Could you elaborate on things in the past where integration has been tried but hasn't worked?Energy and fuelInnovation32035713203572FrancisBradleyFrancisBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1655)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. If you would allow me, I'll extend the same courtesy that Mr. Hsu did. I would like to read aloud the motion I submitted last week, which we will be discussing later today. It states:That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), and given the repercussions of the 2012 Fall Report of the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development on the natural resources sector, the Committee postpone its current study and undertake a study of chapters 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 of the report, beginning on February 26, 2013 and reporting to the House of Commons no later than June 7, 2013.I'm moving on to my questions. [Translation]My questions are mostly for Mr. Bradley.Thank you for your presentation. I want to pick up on Mr. Julian's questions about the smart grid. You touched on a few recommendations and things the government could do to help it along.I don't have a lot of time. If you could provide the committee with more detailed recommendations on what the federal government can do to help establish a smart grid, we would certainly be very keen to review them and possibly include them in our final report.You mentioned some barriers as well. I would like you to expand a little on what you said. You talked about the high cost of new technologies. What do you recommend in terms of addressing that challenge?Electricity smart gridsEnergy and fuelInfrastructureInnovation32035933203594320359532035963203597320359832035993203600LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightFrancisBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1700)[English]I'll stop you there because my time is limited. I'd like to hear what you have to say about changes in the last federal budget to the scientific research and experimental developmental tax credit. What kind of effect do you think this will have on the sector?Energy and fuelInnovationScientific Research and Experimental Development Tax Incentive Program32036053203606FrancisBradleyFrancisBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1630)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.My thanks to all the guests who are here today and to Dr. Lear who is with us by videoconference.As a physician by training, I also believe that all these electronic tools will lighten the heavy burden carried by practitioners. When I was at Laval University, I had to find the charts of elderly patients. Some of them often had three or four charts. I had to go through them in a few minutes and present the case to our manager. It was a challenge for me. So I feel that this will really reduce the workload. However, I am concerned about the security and protection of personal health information. I just noticed that we have electronic health records and electronic medical records. I assume that the electronic health records do not include the medical history. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is not what I have read. The electronic medical records could be transferred between various general practitioners or specialists in various regions, even across the country. I know from experience that sometimes you need the patient's consent to request the transfer of the record from another doctor. How is the confidentiality of information protected if patients' records are transmitted electronically?I would also like to ask Dr. Price a question. In your discussions leading to the development of OSCAR, what were the main concerns of health care providers?Electronic health recordsHealthInnovationPrivacy and data protection31984823198483319848431984853198486JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1645)[Translation]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.My first question is for Dr. Price.My colleague Colin Carrie asked a very good question about the standardization of electronic medical records. At first, your answer was not what I expected, but as you answered more questions, you provided more details. You said that you would like to see the federal government do something about how data is entered into that software.In terms of applications such as OSCAR and MyHealth, which are developed in Canada, I think it is healthy for the companies to compete in the marketplace. All those applications can export data, but the problem is that they are not compatible with each other.A number of years ago in my riding, when we started to develop electronic records, I was working in a clinic that wanted to implement a system like that. Since buying a program requires private clinics to make a large financial investment, the clinics want value for their money. They want to be able to read their patients' data and that of patients who were referred to them. The problem is that the data are not compatible, although they can be exported. You mentioned[English]that the federal government should look at how we enter our data.[Translation]Since you know more about electronic records than I do, could you tell me how you think the federal government could contribute to make the data compatible from one software to another?Electronic health recordsHealthInnovation31985273198528319852931985303198531319853231985333198534JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulDavidPrice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1645)[Translation]This is the first time I have heard about a system like that. It is like an RSS feed bringing the data of a number of people together. I think this is something for the committee to think about.[English]Dr. Lear, you talked at great length about the good work being done through telemedicine to reach as many people as possible, even in remote areas. I come from a rural part of the country, and although the best solution would be to have more doctors to treat more patients, this is not possible to achieve in a short time. I believe that telemedicine can be a way for medical doctors to be more efficient. Can you tell us more about how medical doctors could be more efficient through the use of telemedicine? Is it by answering e-mails, rather than setting up appointments, as my colleague Libby Davies said, or is it by making video appointments so we save time between appointments? Can you expand on that?HealthHealth care systemInnovationRural communitiesTelehealth319853731985383198539DavidPriceScottLear//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1655)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.Let me go back to the question that Dr. Price did not have time to answer. It had to do with the concerns of health care providers in relation to the OSCAR system that you implemented.As a general practitioner, I have some questions about this whole technology. I am not saying that it is bad, on the contrary. It is very useful. It enables us to save a lot of time and to have access to our patients' records. But I am wondering what place the industry is giving to the doctor-patient relationship.I am probably old-fashioned, but I see that some patients who go to the doctor's office do not have an organic disease. Instead, they need someone to listen to them. Sometimes, it takes a number of appointments to realize that the patient has a psychological problem rather than an organic one. If doctors relied on what patients say, they would be tempted to order a series of tests.How can we work with this situation? My colleague Dr. Carrie talked about a physician who was using a BlackBerry to measure patients' heart rates, to monitor their hearts, and so on. In this industry, I still think that the role of physicians, particularly general practitioners, is based on trust and on the relationships they have with their patients.How do you see this in the future?Electronic health recordsHealthHealth care systemInnovation319855831985593198560319856131985623198563JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulDavidPrice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1655)[Translation]Thank you very much.My question is for Dr. Price.[English]Earlier I talked about my beef that I have with the data itself. In your presentation you talked about searchable data which would help with public health, for example. Do you think that the current data being produced by that software is searchable? Otherwise, we're still going to have problems if we don't make sure that the data is searchable in a usable way.Electronic health recordsHealthInnovation3198569319857031985713198572DjaouidaSellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertDavidPrice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1715)[Translation]Mr. Chair, thank you very much for allowing us to ask the witnesses more questions. We have some excellent witnesses with us today.A number of committee members who are here today are very concerned about the staggering amounts of money that the federal government has invested in electronic records. I personally believe that they are important, but compared to the money being invested, I don't think we have had an adequate or satisfactory product yet. In his questions, Mr. Lobb also identified this issue as a priority. In addition, I am happy to know that this is also important for a Liberal MP. Mr. Lepage, please be brief. You said that the funding should be outcome-based. I need to ask you to further explain what you meant by that.Electronic health recordsGovernment assistanceHealthInnovation319863931986403198641JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulPaulLepage//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1720)[Translation]Thank you.Mr. Lepage, the data that we have received over the past couple of hours indicate that between 80% and 90% of doctors use electronic records in some countries. We are talking about 50% in the U.S. and 40% in Canada. I am a big fan of our made-in-Canada products. But should we not look at what is happening around the world and copy what others do exactly as it is? Do our nice Canadian system and the very complex jurisdictional issues make the situation impossible? I also don't think the solution is to invest more money. In my view, that would not solve the problem. Electronic health recordsForeign countriesHealthInnovationProvincial jurisdiction31986553198656DavidPricePaulLepage//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1635)[English] Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Dunn, I am going to follow up on questions posed by my colleagues on the other side regarding fracking technology now. Disclosure of chemicals is great. Was the chemical list that was used for fracking disclosed after it was regulated, so that you had to disclose it, or were you doing that before regulation?Chemical compoundsEnergy and fuelHydraulic fracturingInformation disseminationInnovationQuality control320102832010293201030LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightRichardDunn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1640)[English]Okay. Disclosure is great, but when accidents happen, traceability and liability are pieces that are necessary to complete social licence. The National Farmers Union in Alberta, at its last AGM, made some recommendations to the federal and provincial levels of government. One of those was to require companies to include non-toxic tracers in their fracking fluids so that potential groundwater contamination could be easily linked to a specific fracking operation. Would you agree with that recommendation?Energy and fuelInnovation320103232010333201034RichardDunnRichardDunn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1640)[English]Is Encana not currently in a lawsuit with Ms. Ernst of Rosebud, Alberta, regarding exactly this, the fact that there is groundwater contamination? Ms. Ernst is not an environmentalist, I should mention. She's a 55-year-old oil and gas industry consultant, so not exactly somebody who butts heads with the industry a lot, but someone who actually works with it.I find it kind of puzzling that here we have this technology, and it's innovative.... Scientists at Rice University are looking at non-toxic tracers to clear this up for the public. Say you have two companies that are drilling in the same place and there is groundwater contamination. Wouldn't it be useful to know which company the contamination is coming from through the use of tracers?Energy and fuelInnovation32010373201038RichardDunnRichardDunn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1640)[English]Wouldn't a tracer in the fracking fluids clear up any frivolous claims made by people complaining about groundwater contamination, if indeed they were frivolous? If you had a tracer, it would make certain that it wasn't from a fracking operation. Wouldn't you agree?Energy and fuelInnovation3201041RichardDunnRichardDunn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1640)[English]Right. I noted before that you talked about partnerships with academia in terms of innovative technology, and I know there are researchers at the University of Alberta who are working on tracers. If your industry is not interested in adopting them, isn't it a waste of time for these researchers to look into tracing technology for fracking fluids? Wouldn't it be more constructive to work in partnership with researchers at the University of Alberta to sort of advance this technology?Energy and fuelInnovation32010433201044RichardDunnRichardDunn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1650)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to thank the witnesses for being here.My first questions are for Mr. Howard.Your presentation focused a lot on the obligation to export oil from the oil sands so it can leave Alberta. You also think developing pipelines to the United States and eastern Canada is a priority.Have you looked at possibilities other than exportation, such as the possibility of developing these resources here, in Canada?Energy and fuelInnovationOil and gasPipeline transportation32010763201077320107832010793201080LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightPeterHoward//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[Translation]It is the Irving pipeline.Energy and fuelInnovation3201084PeterHowardPeterHoward//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[Translation]If you ever study resource development—we know that job creation is a priority for Canadians—this committee will be most interested in receiving your study. Thank you.I also have questions for Mr. Heintzman, from Bullfrog Power.You mentioned biogas. Where are your main suppliers located?Biogas systemsBullfrog PowerEnergy and fuelInnovationProvince of Quebec320108632010873201088PeterHowardTomHeintzman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[Translation]Okay.Who are your main green energy suppliers in Quebec?Energy and fuelInnovation32010903201091TomHeintzmanTomHeintzman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[English]I found in your publications that the hydroelectricity you produce is greener than that of Hydro-Québec. Could you explain?Energy and fuelInnovation3201096TomHeintzmanTomHeintzman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[Translation]Last week, one witness told us about smart grids.Could you tell us about the impact this technology might have on your sector?Electricity smart gridsEnergy and fuelInnovationRenewable energy and fuel32010983201099TomHeintzmanTomHeintzman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1715)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair.My questions are directed once again towards Mr. Heintzman. You mentioned in your observations that markets aren't currently present that are favourable to innovation. Could you just elaborate on what you meant by that?Energy and fuelInnovation320119032011913201192LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightTomHeintzman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1715)[English]Thanks.Mr. Dunn, you mentioned the SR and ED tax credit. Have you looked into the impact that changes to SR and ED in the last budget will have on your R and D activities?Encana CorporationEnergy and fuelInnovationResearch and researchersScientific Research and Experimental Development Tax Incentive Program32011943201195TomHeintzmanRichardDunn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1625)[English]Mr. Bettencourt, the smart grid technology sounds very interesting. Has your organization done a cost-benefit analysis or value-for-money analysis for implementation of a smart grid to show the economic benefits that would come from this?Cost-benefit analysisElectrical gridsEnergy and fuelInnovation3194371PeterJulianBurnaby—New WestminsterAlexBettencourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1630)[English]With the collaboration of the federal government, it would give a clearer picture, basically a vision for the future for updating those assets, correct?Electrical gridsEnergy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovation3194373AlexBettencourtAlexBettencourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1630)[English]Thank you.Mr. Thompson, thank you for your testimony as well. It illustrates some of the gaps in the progress of the energy sector, certainly in innovation, and where we need to improve, and that's part of the purpose of this study.In terms of geothermal mapping and modelling, there was a 2008 study done by one of your members, Michal Moore, of the Institute for Sustainable Energy, and the result of that study was that the federal government should commission a Canadian national survey to give companies a better idea of where they might best locate geothermal projects.I think I heard correctly, but were you suggesting that the federal government give federal-backed loan guarantees to utilities wishing to explore geothermal projects such as they did with the Lower Churchill Project in Newfoundland and Labrador?Energy and fuelGeothermal energyGovernment assistanceInnovation3194375319437631943773194378AlexBettencourtTimothyThompson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1630)[English]Yes, thank you.During the 2008 period, when that study came out, Shell was interested in looking at geothermal for oil sands operations, but it said it was about a decade away from realizing geothermal for oil sands production.We're five years in from that prediction of a decade away. Do you think there's been any progress? Has Shell stayed interested in the idea of using geothermal?Energy and fuelGeothermal energyInnovationShell Canada LimitedTar sands319438231943833194384TimothyThompsonTimothyThompson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1650)[Translation]Thank you. The point is noted. I will think about how I want to follow up on your actions.I will move on to questions for the witnesses.My question is for Mr. Bettencourt.In your presentation, you mentioned several recommendations that you made to the federal government about regulation and taxation. You said that you wanted to transfer a portion of the costs from the ratepayers to the taxpayers. Do you have any other recommendations you would like to elaborate on?Electrical gridsEnergy and fuelInnovationTax policy3194469319447031944713194472LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightAlexBettencourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1655)[Translation]Thank you.We have heard a lot of comments from witnesses about the tax credit for scientific research and experimental development. What do you think about these criteria and the impact they may have on your sector?Electric powerEnergy and fuelInnovationTax credits31944783194479AlexBettencourtAlexBettencourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1705)[English]Mr. Bettencourt, I'd like to ask you a question about renewables and smart grid technology. You talked about the old one-way distribution. I'd like you to expand for the committee on how a smart grid increases efficiency of transmission for renewables and the challenges. As you said, the wind doesn't blow all the time, the sun doesn't shine all the time, so how does a smart grid increase the efficiency?Electrical gridsEnergy and fuelInnovationOntario3194532LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightAlexBettencourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1705)[English]I'm sorry, could I just interrupt you for one second?The policy framework in Ontario has added to interest in the smart grid. There's actually a policy framework from the provincial level that has driven research and action in this sector. Is that correct?Energy and fuelInnovation31945343194535AlexBettencourtAlexBettencourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, NDP): (1715)[Translation]Good afternoon, Mr. Chair. I am glad to be back at the committee.First, I would like to correct something that Mr. Armstrong said. The premier is not opposed to energy loans. It is because it was offered to another province, and Quebec had not benefited from that same kind of loan. That's why she was opposed to it.Why does Canada lag so far behind in developing geothermal energy? We need only think of a country like Iceland, which has been developing this energy since the 1970s and 1980s.My question is for Mr. Thompson.Energy and fuelGeothermal energyInnovationResearch and researchers3194565319456631945673194568LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightTimothyThompson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1715)[Translation]Could you please give us some concrete examples of large-scale use of smart grids?Electrical gridsEnergy and fuelInnovation3194570TimothyThompsonLeonBenoitVegreville—Wainwright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1715)[Translation]So, smart meters are part of what you offered when you created this system.Does Hydro-Québec use smart meters?Energy and fuelInnovation31945743194575AlexBettencourtAlexBettencourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1715)[Translation]With respect to research and development, how would you describe what you have undertaken? Are we on the cutting edge?Electrical gridsEnergy and fuelInnovationResearch and researchers3194579AlexBettencourtAlexBettencourt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1635)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I would like to thank our guests who are here with us, as well as Dr. Treurnicht, who is joining us by videoconference.There are six medical technology clusters across Canada located in Vancouver, Winnipeg, Alberta, Halifax, Ontario and Montreal. I know that there are strong universities and hospitals in each region that are able to work with industry partners on research and development projects, as well as on clinical proof of concept studies.What is the real role of organizations such as Health Technology Exchange or MaRS Discovery District in these medical technology clusters? Could you give me an example of how you contribute to one of these clusters, for example, in Ontario?I would also like to know whether we could have other clusters across Canada. If so, what role would the federal government play in fostering the development of such medical technology clusters?Thank you.HealthHealth Technology ExchangeInnovationMaRS Discovery District319169231916933191694319169531916963191697JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1645)[English]Mr. Lewis, I have a question for you. You mentioned earlier the funds that should be allocated to new technology.That reminded me of the fact that as MPs, we do have a good-sized budget. For several years we did not invest in new furniture, such as new couches or new computers, because we preferred to spend the money we had on the workforce or to contact, through several ways, our constituents. For many years we didn't invest in replacing our furniture and computers until the government said, “You can have $5,000 per year to devote only to replacing the technology and furniture.” I think you're right that the special fund could be a good thing, but what would be the sources of money for this fund? Would it be federal, provincial, private, hospital, local community? I don't think only the federal government should invest in that fund.Government assistanceHealthInnovation319173131917323191733JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulBrianLewis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1645)[English]I'm amazed. We can look at the private sector. For example, a company in my riding will invest in new technology because it will be more efficient, more productive, and more cost-efficient, but when we look at the health care systems in the provinces, they don't apply these same principles. I'm not advocating for our health care in Canada to go to a private model, of course not. But is there a way, from your point of view, to take the best elements of the private sector and apply them to our public, universal, and free health care system in Canada?HealthHealth care systemInnovationValue for money31917383191739JohnSoloninkaJohnSoloninka//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1645)[English]Thank you.Mr. Soloninka, you mentioned earlier that when money is invested in the health care system, it is for acute care rather than chronic care, or something similar to that.I feel the same way. When you treat acute problems, you can show good statistics, that you cured whatever number of diseases, or you can check boxes. Prevention and chronic disease management are investments that we need to make, but they produce results only down the road.Government contractsHealthHealth care systemInnovationProduct of Canada319174231917433191744JohnSoloninkaJohnSoloninka//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (1550)[English] Use “Innovative Transportation Technologies”. That's your title. I just read it.A voice: It's the orders of the day.Hon. Denis Coderre: Yes, and if it's wrong, well, we have enough problems.... Committee reportsInnovationRoads and road transportation317991931799203179921LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen Sound//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1550)[English]I so move.(Motion agreed to)Committee reportsInnovationRoads and road transportation31799253179926LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen Sound//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1600)[English]Thank you.[Translation]I don't want to filibuster for the sake of love, but I will still say a few words.[English]Mr. Jeff Watson: Love, inclusion, and no corruption.Hon. Denis Coderre: Isn't that great?[Translation]I would not call this a dissenting report, but rather a complementary one. I think we have done a pretty great job. We did not always agree, but enlightenment comes when ideas collide. Some valuable work has been done. That is why the Liberal Party of Canada supports all the recommendations of this report. That is why I voted to adopt it.Moreover, there are two things I need to point out. We discussed them briefly. First, I think the government has a bigger role to play in the development of new technologies. Second, I think we must discuss public transit in urban areas, and electrification in particular. So I would have a page or a page and a half to submit when you like, in both official languages. It is actually already finished. I also want to add my voice to the chorus in thanking you for your work. The analyst has done a great job. Jean-François, you will be thanked in the next report, but I must say that the previous clerk, Alexandre, did some good work. Mr. Chair, you have transitioned nicely. It is rare for a Liberal to congratulate a Conservative, but you are seeing the new 2013 Denis Coderre. Thank you for your work. InnovationRoads and road transportation3179959317996031799613179962317996331799643179965LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen Sound//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1600)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.If I may, I would like to introduce a notice of motion on drug shortages. We have been thinking about introducing this motion for a very long time. I am giving you the notice of motion today. The motion deals with drug shortages.If I may, I will read it.That the committee undertake, following its study on technological innovation in health care, a study of at least five meetings on the progress of the implementation of the motion adopted on March 14, 2012 by the House of Commons aiming to establish a nationwide strategy to anticipate, identify and manage shortages of essential medication right, and that the Chair report the Committee's findings to the House.Thank you.HealthInnovation31853723185373318537431853753185376JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1600)[Translation]I understand what you mean about the subject under discussion, Madam Chair. It was just a notice of motion. I am ready to ask my questions now.First, I would like to thank our witnesses for coming here to shed some light for us on technological innovations in health care. We know that advances in pure and applied research and in technology are leading to the development of new diagnostic and treatment modalities. Heath professionals have to be able to understand these advances and to use them safely and effectively. Could you give the committee some examples of the way in which the new diagnostic and treatment modalities have been built into programs of study in Canada?The second part of my question is whether medical schools have made any effort to train students to use these cyberhealth technologies, particularly in terms of electronic medical records.Electronic health recordsHealthInnovationMedical schoolsNew technologies31853883185389318539031853913185392JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulSteveSlade//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1605)[Translation]Thank you.I would also like to benefit from your presence here, Mr. Gold.You mentioned human resource challenges. I see that in terms of the provinces, politicians, students, regulatory bodies and medical educators. You mentioned the need for a tool at national level.Could you be more specific about that tool and about what you are expecting from the federal government?Data sharingHealthHealth care systemInnovationLabour shortageProvinces, territories, states3185399318540031854013185402IrvingGoldIrvingGold//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1625)[Translation]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.My questions are for the witnesses from the Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada.When I heard that you were coming to provide evidence, I wondered what kinds of questions I wanted to ask you. The first thing that came to mind was improving the health of indigenous peoples. I think that is one of your many roles. Could you tell me what the members of your association are doing to make sure that more first nations doctors are entering the workforce so that their communities' health care needs can be better served?As we know, indigenous populations are in poorer health than other Canadians and they have quite a unique socio-economic situation. That is why it might be better to send first nations doctors onto reserves and into their communities to help the people there rather than to send white doctors who do not necessarily understand their reality.You did not have the time to talk about your recommendations, but I was pleased when I read them. I was pleasantly surprised. Recommendations 2 and 3, which deal with…(1630)[English]medical education opportunities fund. I want to know more about that. I am so glad you mentioned that you want to allocate funds, and that you wish, if I understand correctly, that the federal government would launch a fund that would allocate funding to clear the growing backlog of eligible aboriginal students wishing to pursue post-secondary education, etc. Tell me more about that. Specifically, you also mentioned a backlog. Tell me more about that backlog. You mentioned that this fund would invest in local pipeline projects. Can you give me examples?Aboriginal peoplesEqual opportunitiesHealthHealth care systemInnovation3185475318547631854773185478318547931854803185481JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1700)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Welcome, Mr. Gilleland. My questions are going to be primarily for you.Mr. Allen mentioned modular facilities. The previous study we did here was trying to find alternative power sources in the north, which uses diesel fuel. While we were doing that study, I discovered the travelling wave reactor, and I'm interested in asking you some questions about it. The fourth-generation reactors seem different from previous nuclear technologies. They seem to promise to be cleaner and smaller. I'd just like you to maybe outline or summarize the advantages of the technology in terms of security issues, proliferation issues, and environmental safety.Energy and fuelEnvironmental protectionInnovationNuclear reactors3186046318604731860483186049LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightJohnGilleland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1705)[English]My second question is twofold. Regarding the target markets for TerraPower, which countries are you thinking about selling this technology to? Have any Canadian agencies contacted you about this technology, governmental or private?Energy and fuelInnovation3186054JohnGillelandJohnGilleland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1705)[English]It's funny, Mr. Gilleland, because we're talking today a lot about changing the nuclear liability regime here in Canada. In terms of liability issues, it hasn't been updated in quite a while. It's surprising to me that no Canadian agencies have been looking into your technologies. It seems on paper that it would be a safer option, so I'm puzzled that the Canadian nuclear agencies haven't been in contact with your company.My third question regards funding for this innovative idea. I know the Department of Energy is involved in this. You have the Los Alamos National Laboratory and Lawrence Livermore. I'm wondering what the funding mix is. I know private investors are involved in this as well.In terms of Mr. Gates talking about getting a prototype online by 2022, what has been the funding mix to get to the point of commercialization for this idea?Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovation318605731860583186059JohnGillelandJohnGilleland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1710)[English] Just to clarify something, the Department of Energy's implication is that there is a spending implication for that department in terms of their collaboration with you. Is that correct?I know, in terms of funding, maybe activities of your company have no direct subsidy from the U.S. federal government, but they are using the weight of those agencies to assist you, and there is a spending implication there.Energy and fuelInnovation31860623186063JohnGillelandJohnGilleland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1640)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to continue on from Mr. Julian's question to SDTC, your direct public funding is fully allocated. Is that correct? There is no more funding to be given at the present moment. Okay, thank you. That's very interesting. It shows maybe the interest the government takes in sustainable development technology. I was reading a speech by Roger Gibbins last night. He's the outgoing president and CEO of the Canada West Foundation. He was talking to young graduates at the University of Calgary and he says that the challenge of the past was securing a national voice for the west. He says that nowadays, this has been largely achieved. He says that today's challenge is finding a prosperous and respected place for Alberta within the global economy. And he raises some interesting questions. He asks what those challenges are. He says:Simply put, although there is nothing simple about it, how will we take a provincial economy that is still heavily dependent on resource extraction and position it for success in the knowledge-based global economy? How will we ensure that Alberta's economy is tomorrow's economy, and not yesterday's economy? How will we ensure that Alberta will truly be “next year country"?My colleagues from the wild rose country will know what “next year country” means. I've heard a lot of testimony here about the knowledge void as well as the commercialization gap, but I don't want to get into that.Mr. Levy, you mentioned, for instance, that you need to have the basic information, basic indicators, in order to increase efficiency. Mr. Gray, there are two prominent researchers, Mr. Moore and Mr. Majorowicz, at your institution who are looking at geothermal and have suggested geothermal for pre-heating at in situ sites. Mr. Wamboldt, TransAlta's Poplar Creek cogeneration plant has increased efficiencies. My question to you would be this: What's the next generation? Generally, to all of you gentlemen, where can the federal government play a role in engaging and supporting the knowledge economy, particularly innovation in the energy sector?It sounds to me as if just basic information is needed as a first step for us to move forward into the future, rather than continuing the regressive ways of the current government. Can you address the question, gentlemen, starting with Mr. Levy?Energy and fuelGeothermal energyInnovation317524731752483175249317525031752513175252317525331752543175255LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightTomLevy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1645)[English]You mentioned that basic information, such as wind currents and stuff, is missing. How can the federal government play a role in helping?Energy and fuelInnovation3175257TomLevyTomLevy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1645)[English]You need the federal government to play as an integrator, in a way.Energy and fuelInnovation3175259TomLevyTomLevy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1645)[English]All right. I'm interested in Helmholtz's work in terms of the development of renewable energy sources, particularly geothermal energy. Could you address how we can advance advances in the field of geothermal energy and their use for oil sands pre-heating at in situ sites?Energy and fuelGeothermal energyInnovationTar sands31752613175262TomLevyMurray R.Gray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1645)[English] Sorry, Mr. Gray. I know that two researchers, Mr. Moore and Mr. Majorowicz, said in 2008 that the federal government should get involved in getting basic information on the geothermal facts of the fields in Alberta. It's five years later now. What has stalled this progress? Why hasn't the federal government gotten involved in looking into this?Energy and fuelInnovation3175265Murray R.GrayMurray R.Gray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1650)[Translation]Thank you.Welcome back, everyone.My question is for Mr. Whittaker.You said that you received a budget allocation of $40 million from the current government. I know that you also participated in the pre-budget consultations of the Standing Committee on Finance.How much extra money are you asking the government to invest?Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovationRenewable energy and fuelSustainable Development Technology Canada31752903175291317529231752933175294LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightRickWhittaker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1655)[Translation] I reread the evidence and I know that you asked for $110 million a year over five years.In which sustainable development sectors will those funds be invested?Energy and fuelInnovation31752963175297RickWhittakerRickWhittaker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1655)[Translation]Thank you.You have already commented on the SR&ED tax credit. I would now like to ask Mr. Levy this question.What do you think about the tightening of the rules that govern those tax credits?Energy and fuelInnovation317529931753003175301RickWhittakerTomLevy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1655)[Translation]I would also like to ask Mr. Gray a question.A number of businesses, including RIM, have already said that this could result in the outsourcing of research and development.Are you also seeing this trend in the oil industry?Energy and fuelInnovationOil and gasResearch and researchers317530331753043175305TomLevyMurray R.Gray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1655)[Translation]Let me go to another topic.Some witnesses, particularly the representatives from Écotech Québec, suggested the idea of a marketing tax credit.Mr. Whittaker, do you think that is a good idea?Energy and fuelInnovationRenewable energy and fuelTax credits317530731753083175309Murray R.GrayRickWhittaker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1655)[Translation]Thank you.I also noticed that you calculated the total annual reduction of greenhouse gas emissions as a result of projects funded by SDTC.How many megatonnes do you expect Canada to eliminate?Energy and fuelGreenhouse gasesInnovationSustainable Development Technology Canada317531131753123175313RickWhittakerRickWhittaker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1220)[Translation]My question goes to Ms. Joseph, from the Federation of Canadian Municipalities.The Green Municipal Fund energy program has two components: feasibility studies and field tests as well as funding for projects and pilot projects. Is that correct?Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceGreen Municipal FundInnovation31598003159801LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightShannonJoseph//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1220)[Translation]In Alberta, $5.1 million were spent on the energy program and half of the money went to two projects.The first was a water treatment facility in Northern Sunrise County and its partners. It uses geothermal energy and is an example of energy efficiency. The total funding came to $300 million.The second project was really interesting. It is a district heating system using solar energy and stored heat. It is located in the municipality of Okotoks. The funding amount was $2.5 million. I should point out that it is in the riding of the Minister of State for Finance and that Mr. Leef and Mr. Andrews have described the effect the program is having. On October 5, 2012…[English]Natural Resources Canada said that this solar community has set a new world record for energy efficiency and innovation. They got the ENERGY GLOBE World Award for sustainability last year. They've got numerous awards. I would say congratulations on supporting that project. Unfortunately, the government doesn't mention your contribution to it. Of those projects mentioned before, there were two that went towards projects and 26 were towards studies.[Translation]My question is simple: in your view, how can innovative ideas be included in the studies so that they end up as concrete projects? What challenges are involved?Energy and fuelInnovation315980331598043159805315980631598073159808ShannonJosephShannonJoseph//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1230)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Letellier, thank you for joining us. I have had the opportunity to visit Longueuil on a number of occasions and I know that you have a very fine community.In your text, you write: “We advocate a level playing field for all energy development in Canada.” What would make a level playing field, in your view?Energy and fuelInnovation315985531598563159857LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightMichelLetellier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1235)[Translation]I am sorry to interrupt you, but you made three recommendations in your presentation and I would like you to talk about them.Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovationRenewable energy and fuel3159859MichelLetellierMichelLetellier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1235)[Translation]What is your recommendation about government subsidies for fossil fuel energy?Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovationOil and gas3159864MichelLetellierMichelLetellier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1235)[Translation]Thank you.We have heard a lot about the changes to the SR&ED program.Is that a subsidy that your industry takes advantage of? If so, what are the consequences of the change on research and development in your field?Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovationRenewable energy and fuelScientific Research and Experimental Development Tax Incentive Program315986631598673159868MichelLetellierMichelLetellier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1235)[Translation]One company, Écotech Québec, appeared before this committee and suggested a tax credit to help bring things to market.Do you think that could help the renewable energy sector?Energy and fuelInnovationRenewable energy and fuelTax credits31598703159871MichelLetellierMichelLetellier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1220)[English]Thank you. I'm going to continue with questions to QUEST. Mr. Gilmour and Mr. Cleland, this is obviously not the first time you've testified before this committee. You're somewhat veterans of this process. I believe in 2009 there was a federal road map developed about integrated community energy solutions. I'm sure the government has acted on some of the recommendations in that road map, but in the interests of improving performance, could you maybe address some of the places where we could improve on that road map and achieve the targets that were set out in it?Community energy systemsEnergy and fuelInnovationRenewable energy and fuel3156528315652931565303156531PeterJulianBurnaby—New WestminsterLeonBenoitVegreville—Wainwright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1225)[English]So all those investments should be looked at with a sustainability focus. Energy and fuelInnovation3156537BrentGilmourBrentGilmour//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1225)[English]Mr. Cleland, you mentioned signals. Other witnesses who have come before the committee have said the same thing: that the role of the federal government can be to send a signal to investors and basically globally about the direction we're going. We see that the government has $1.3 billion in oil industry subsidies, and I was somewhat shocked that your organization receives $75,000. Was that the number? That seems to be sending a signal that.... I would prefer to see a stronger signal sent, putting your organization higher in terms of the importance that's given to investment by the federal government.How could we strengthen this signal toward the transition to renewables and what you mentioned, the multi-modal energy, and how we can develop systems that use multiple sources of energy? How could the federal government send that signal?CostsEnergy and fuelEnergy conservationGovernment policyInnovation315653931565403156541BrentGilmourLeonBenoitVegreville—Wainwright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1245)[English]Thanks.I'd invite my colleague to familiarize himself with the changes to SR and ED. As we know, only a portion of the funds invested from SR and ED were reinvested into IRAP and other programs to support research. If the witnesses have any further comments on SR and ED to table with committee, I'd invite them to do so.My question is for Mr. Cleland. You mentioned pricing carbon and policy stability in your presentation. If the Canadian government decided to respect its international engagements concerning reduction of greenhouse gases, what impacts would this have on your sector in particular?Carbon creditsEnergy and fuelInnovation315662631566273156628LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightMikeCleland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1250)[English]Thank you, Mr. Julian.Going back to Mr. Gilmour and Mr. Cleland, I'm glad you mentioned the long game about energy, because it truly is a long game. Transition through renewables isn't going to happen tomorrow, obviously, but we have to start on that path.One of the challenges to implementing renewables is the implementation of a smart grid. The sums involved in making that smart grid across Canada will be substantial and will require a vision that goes beyond the current electoral cycle. I'm happy that you mentioned that.I'd like you to address that briefly and also this fact: Canada is not in the top 10 innovators, according to the World Economic Forum, but a lot of the countries that are in that top 10 have embraced renewables. These are countries like Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Switzerland.Could you address where Canada stands vis-à-vis those international partners and how we can improve? How can we get into that top 10?Energy and fuelForeign countriesInnovationNew technologiesRenewable energy and fuelResearch and researchers31566443156645315664631566473156648PeterJulianBurnaby—New WestminsterLeonBenoitVegreville—Wainwright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1225)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us here in person or through videoconference. Unfortunately, they will not be able to hear me.As a Canadian, I am very proud of new technologies being developed in public health, including nanotechnology and genotechnology, if we can call it that. However, I am disappointed to see that, although we have the potential to be a leader in those two technologies, there are obstacles, from what I understood from your presentations.My first question is for Dr. Voyer.Based on the list I have before me, your work is mainly on basic research. In your view, how will the current government cuts affect tomorrow’s applied research? I think that there will probably be economic consequences. My fear is that the current cuts to fundamental research will have an impact on applied research, which in turn will have an impact on the access of Canadians to modern technologies.The second part of my question has to do with funding. How do you see the balance between public and private funding, given that the purpose of private funding is to obtain dividends from applied research?Thank you.HealthInnovationPublic healthScientific research and scientists3153196315319731531983153199315320031532013153202JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulNormandVoyer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1230)[Translation]I was talking about public funding versus private funding.HealthInnovation3153209NormandVoyerNormandVoyer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1245)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair. If you don’t mind, I am going to take one minute of my time to introduce a motion. I would like us to go over this motion together when we will study current committee business. You can circulate the motion. It reads as follows:That the Committee study resources to ensure that Canada is able to fulfill its responsibility to develop a national blindness prevention strategy, pursuant to resolution 56.26 adopted by the World Health Organization in 2003, called Vision 2020: The Right to Sight. The strategy should be based on four major objectives: to integrate vision care into already existing health care systems; to provide sustainable funding and other resources; to ensure that the care is fair and accessible to everyone, not only to the rich; and to ensure excellence on all levels.My apologies to the witnesses for introducing it right away, but I would like Canadians to be informed of what we do in committee, since I find in camera meetings exasperating.I am now going to ask the witnesses questions. In November, the Conservative government made significant changes to the National Research Council Canada. One of the first effects of those changes is the loss of hundreds of research jobs related to the National Research Council Canada.As a witness, do you feel that the changes made by the Conservative government to the National Research Council Canada will help you in your work? Is that a good thing for research in Canada?Budget cutsHealthInnovationMotionsNational Research Council of CanadaVision 2020: the Right to Sight31532683153269315327031532713153272315327331532743153275JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulNormandVoyer//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1250)[Translation]Thank you for your answer. That leads me to the second part of my question. John R. McDougall, president of the NRC, confirmed that the changes made to the council would affect the type of research that the NRC will conduct. He mentioned that there would be less scientific and basic research and more research on the impact on the industry and commercial sale.Do our two witnesses believe that this new mission for NRC is good?HealthInnovationNational Research Council of CanadaScientific research and scientists3153279315328031532813153282NormandVoyerJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35422ChristianParadisHon.Christian-ParadisMégantic—L'ÉrableConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ParadisChristian_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Christian Paradis (Minister of Industry): (1105)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thanks to the committee members for your hard work. I'm pleased to be here today. I will introduce you to my deputy minister John Knubley, who has been in office since September. Congratulations. Also here are Marta Morgan, associate deputy minister, and Madam Susan Bincoletto who, as you just said, Mr. Chair, is the CFO. They're all making their first appearance with me in their official capacities. I will ask the committee members to join me in welcoming them in their new roles.Some hon. members: Hear, hear!Hon. Christian Paradis: I last appeared before this committee in March, in the context of tabling main estimates, and today I'd like to take this opportunity to update you on several fronts. I wish to provide a brief overview of current economic challenges and key elements of our government's response to date, and then update you on three departmental policy priorities going forward: one, strengthening manufacturing; two, boosting business innovation; and, three, supporting the digital economy.[Translation]As I indicated the last time, as the Minister of Industry, I am responsible for a large number of different policies and programs designed to strengthen the competitiveness of Canadian businesses. In reality, we are working hard to fulfil our mandate in the context of a fragile recovery of the world economy. Businesses throughout Canada are still facing numerous challenges. Our government understands these challenges. That is why we have taken action to promote long-term, strong and lasting economic growth and to promote the creation of value-added, high-quality jobs for Canadians across the country. When the recession hit, we made a weighty decision to implement our Economic Action Plan so as to support the Canadian economy.[English]Our government provided vital support to businesses and workers across the country when they have needed it most. This targeted stimulus plan worked: since July 2009, employment has increased by almost 822,000 jobs. This means more than 390,000 additional jobs now than there were before the recession. More than 98% of all jobs created since July 2009 have been in full-time positions, more than 75% are in the private sector, and about two-thirds are in high-wage industries.Our economic output is well above pre-recession levels, and Canada has been ranked the first among the G-7 in tax competitiveness. Now that the economy is recovering, we are continuing to take action in key areas to strengthen Canada's economy and ensure long-term prosperity. To support business, we introduced a hiring credit to help companies recruit employees and we are keeping taxes low and reducing red tape. To foster an innovative economy, in the economic action plan for 2012 we committed $1.1 billion over five years to directly support research and development and make $500 million available to address gaps in venture capital. That will support the most innovative of Canada's firms and help them grow and create jobs. To advance the Canadian marketplace, our government has cut import tariffs on manufacturing equipment and has been driving an ambitious trade agenda. To strengthen our infrastructure, we committed $14.8 billion in stimulus. We recently announced the conclusion of an agreement between Canada and the State of Michigan towards building a new publicly owned bridge crossing between Windsor and Detroit. Furthermore, our debt-to-GDP ratio is the lowest in the G-7 and we have kept our Triple-A credit rating. We have a clear plan to return to a balanced budget.This progress has not gone unnoticed. Both the IMF and OECD project that Canada's economy will be among the leaders in the industrialized world over the next two years, and Forbes magazine named Canada the best country in the world in which to do business.(1110)[Translation]Within my portfolio, I emphasize support for the creation of jobs and for growth. During the summer, I took part in a series of roundtables with business leaders. Their point of view is that the solidity of the main economic indicators in Canada make it an excellent place to do business. The messages they sent me were clear: they want our government to seek above all to create an environment of international scope for our businesses and enable them to prosper more easily throughout the country. We share this concern and we are committed to creating the conditions that will enable businesses to invest so that the private sector can prosper and create jobs.[English]One of the key priorities within my portfolio is to promote greater private sector investment in the manufacturing sector. As you know, the manufacturing industry is very important to Canada's economy. It employs more than 1.75 million people, with 60,000 in research and development. It is the top sector for foreign direct investment and accounts for more than 63% of our exports. Almost half of our country's R and D that is performed by business in Canada is done by the manufacturing sector.But this sector is changing and is facing global challenges. The economic slowdown, the competition from low-cost countries, and the accelerated pace of technological advancements are adding to the pressures of Canadian manufacturers. In the face of so much change, our companies must be at the forefront of technological improvement and adopt new processes to become more productive and competitive. In this context, innovation is critical. Research and development is crucial. Developing new markets is imperative. Training workers in the skills they need is essential.[Translation]The recent improvements made in the Industrial and Regional Benefits Policy will guarantee that government defence procurement will generate some very valuable activities for Canadian industry. Measures such as these will also help Canadian businesses to be more productive, so that they be competitive within the world economy.The aerospace industry is another element in the manufacturing sector that is important for our country. We are a world leader in the production of goods and services responsive to aerospace and space activities. This major segment of the Canadian economy generates $41.2 billion in revenue and provides Canadians with close to 162,000 highly qualified jobs, whether direct, indirect or induced.The world markets for the aerospace and space industries are marked by very strong competition and are focused on the development of innovative technologies. To maintain their status as a leader internationally, Canadian businesses must continue to invest heavily in R&D. Canada’s aerospace industries have responded to this challenge by every year investing more than $1.5 billion in R&D in order to create state-of-the-art next-generation technologies.Canadian businesses working in these industries are therefore among the most innovative in the country. In light of the importance of their sector for the economic future of our country, in February I launched the Review of Aerospace and Space Programs and Policies, for which the Hon. David Emerson is responsible.This review aims to produce concrete and neutral recommendations on the financial plan about the way in which federal policies and programs can maximize the competitiveness of the aerospace and space industries. Mr. Emerson has worked in close cooperation with the Aerospace Industries Association of Canada in order to study the key issues. For example, innovation and access to markets and their development, skills development, procurement and development of the supplier network were among the topics discussed. Mr. Emerson is giving a press conference — it may be over by now — about this, in connection with the launch of the report.(1115)[English]Mr. Emerson's review also touches on issues related to the space sector. Canada has a long history of leadership in space, and this will continue. I recently announced that Canada intends to renew its commitment to be a continuing partner in the International Space Station. I am particularly proud that Chris Hadfield will become the first Canadian commander of the ISS during his mission, which is scheduled to begin in December of this year. I look forward, as I said, to receiving Mr. Emerson's report today.The manufacturing sectors also demonstrate the importance of innovation to the competitiveness of our businesses. That's why, since coming to office, our government has made science and technology a priority. We introduced this strategy in 2007, and it recognizes that innovation is driven by collaboration between researchers and entrepreneurs, and by commercialization of new technologies. Since 2006, our government has invested nearly $8 billion to support S and T. These investments have made a difference. We have been able to support new world-class policies and programs, and we are working more closely with the private sector.As you are aware, Canada must continue to work to improve in terms of business innovation performance. Business innovation is increasingly vital to maintaining both Canada's global competitive advantage and high standard of living. Despite the high level of federal support for business R and D, Canada continues to lag behind other countries in a number of areas: business R and D spending, commercialization of new products and services, and productivity growth. It was for this reason that we called for an expert panel for a review of federal support to research and development. Through our budget 2012, the government has acted on many elements of the R and D review panel's advice by increasing support for high-growth companies, research collaborations, innovation procurement opportunities, and support to grow venture financing. Indeed, the budget is providing $1.1 billion for direct research and development support.[Translation]I would also like to talk to you about the digital economy.Late last month, I had the pleasure of speaking to the members of the International Institute of Communications. As I said then, a vigorous digital economy is essential to our future prosperity. We understand the importance of the information and communications technologies, in which investments in R & D are the largest in the private sector. This sector supplies over 500,000 high-quality, well-paid jobs in Canada. ICTs are an essential element in our future. To become more productive and competitive, businesses in all sectors of the economy need ICTs. This is why we have taken measures to foster greater use of ICTs by investing $80 million over three years to implement the Digital Technology Adoption Pilot Program, designed to help small- and medium-sized businesses to adopt these technologies. It is estimated that this program should help over 600 businesses.[English]Similarly, through the Business Development Bank of Canada, we are providing support to businesses seeking to acquire digital technologies. We have taken a number of steps to increase consumer and business confidence in the online marketplace by modernizing the Copyright Act and passing anti-spam legislation.As you will recall, earlier this year, we announced details for the auction of spectrum for the next generation of wireless networks that will help sustain competition and robust investment. After that announcement, another round of consultation was launched on the auction format and conditions of licence. The views we heard are being analyzed, and decisions will be announced early in the new year. We believe, with these efforts currently under way, that Canada has the potential to be a global leader in the creation, adoption, and use of digital technology.In conclusion, Chair, I believe these initiatives will help strengthen the competitiveness of the Canadian economy. Taken together, they support our government's goal of generating jobs and growth for all Canadians.Thank you very much for your time today.Aerospace industryAtlantic Canada Opportunities AgencyBusiness developmentBusiness Development Bank of CanadaCanada's Economic Action PlanCanadian companiesCustoms and exciseDepartment of IndustryDetroit River International Crossing ProjectDigital economyEconomic stimulusGovernment expendituresHiring credit for small businessIndustrial Regional Benefits PolicyInformation technologyInnovationJob creationManufacturing industryPrivate sectorResearch and researchersSupplementary estimates (B) 2012-2013Venture capitalWork-based training3141758314175931417603141763314176431417653141768314176931417703141771DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1225)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you to the witnesses for appearing.Mr. Trost asked a question: if a business is profitable, why does it need a subsidy? I think it's a valid question. We see that the federal government has given $500 million in subsidies that have gone to CCS technologies, $1.3 billion in oil industry subsidies. I could redirect the question to Mr. Trost. If these businesses are profitable, why do they need subsidies? Following that, in the 2011 joint report of the IEA, OPEC, OECD, and World Bank on fossil fuel and energy subsidies, there was a recommendation made to Canada to rationalize and phase out over the medium term inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption. As you said, there can be signals given to industry. Subsidies can act as signals. I would ask Mr. Gradek and Mr. Nelson this: you mentioned before that the oil sands seemed to be focused solely on increasing production, so what does a no-strings-attached $1.3 billion subsidy to the oil industry give as a signal from the federal government to the oil sands? Do you think it tells them without the environmental piece in place, “Go ahead, increase production, increase growth. We're going to let you go ahead and do what you want”, and we lose that value-added piece that you too could add to that industry? Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovation3140874314087531408763140877314087831408793140880LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightScottNelson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1240)[Translation]I want to thank the witnesses for their contribution. My first question is for Mr. Gradeck. You have answered Mr. Frost's questions but I would like you to comment on the criteria for accessing the scientific research and experimental development tax credit, and what the impact is for your own company. Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovationScientific Research and Experimental Development Tax Incentive Program31409153140916LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightThomasGradek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1240)[Translation]Thank you. This is a concern that we have heard from companies such as Rim as well as from the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers and the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters. It is a concern shared by many sectors of industry. At our last meeting, we were supposed to have a presentation from Écotech Québec. Unfortunately, they were unable to appear before the committee but they sent us a brief in which they suggest creating a tax credit for the commercialization of products. What do you think of that suggestion? Mr. Nelson can also answer if he so wishes. Business developmentEnergy and fuelInnovationTax credits3140921314092231409233140924ThomasGradekScottNelson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1245)[English]Thank you.I would like to ask my last question.I was wondering if you could comment on some propositions made by the president of Shell recently, who spoke about CCS, which we talked about earlier. She said that CCS would be viable only under a regulatory system, such as cap and trade, regarding carbon emissions.What are your comments on her comments?Carbon capture, utilization and storageEnergy and fuelInnovation3140930314093131409323140933ThomasGradekLeonBenoitVegreville—Wainwright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1225)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I would like to give notice of the following motion:That the committee spend at least five meetings conducting a study on the social determinants of health in order to review and assess the evidence showing that social conditions play a pivotal role in health; to confirm the social or economic conditions that affect the health of Canadians and, to the extent possible, to quantify that impact; to identify the effects, including financial, of those determinants on Canada's health system; to make recommendations on how to address those determinants to improve the health of Canadians; to make Canada's health care system more sustainable and more affordable; and to report to the House of Commons.Thank you, Madam Chair.HealthInnovation3141237314123831412393141240JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1225)[Translation]Thank you.My question is for Dr. Fotti. I listened to your presentation very carefully. I think what you're doing is wonderful because your approach is aligned with what we're trying to get now, patient-centred care.I would just like you to clarify something for me. Is your clinic similar to Quebec's family medicine groups, or FMGs, introduced by the province as a pilot project? If so, I'd like to know whether you receive any funding from the local government. In Quebec, for instance, we had a bad experience with Rockland MD radiology clinics. It cost us dearly, and we wouldn't want to get into a situation where we're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I also heard you say you were helping out hospital systems. I'd like you to elaborate a bit more on how you do that.Thank you.Community health centresHealthInnovationPrivate clinicsUser fees3141244314124531412463141247JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulChristopherFotti//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1230)[Translation]I gather, then, from your answer that your clinic model isn't really the same as Quebec's FMG model. As you mentioned, when you're in a packed emergency room, you can recommend that patients go to a clinic for more lab work and better follow-up. Is that right?HealthInnovation3141256ChristopherFottiChristopherFotti//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1240)[Translation]Thank you very much, Madam Chair.My first question is for Dr. Tétreault.Thank you kindly for your presentation. I found it fascinating. I also want to commend you for the great work you're doing in your hospital.In your presentation, you offered a number of solutions and initiatives that I think fall more within the province's domain. I would like to hear what the Government of Canada can do, within its jurisdiction, to support your mission and your initiatives, while respecting provincial authority, of course.Caregivers and health care professionalsEducation and trainingHealthInnovationResearch and researchers3141289314129031412913141292JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulMichelTétreault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1240)[Translation]Thank you very much.[English]My next question will be to Mr. Racette.In your presentation you briefly talk about a national health agenda. Could you describe in more detail what it would include?HealthHealth care systemInnovation314129731412983141299MichelTétreaultRayRacette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1240)[English] What I'm mostly interested in is whether we in Canada could have a federal national health agenda, or whether that can apply only to Sweden and we cannot have a similar agenda or strategy here.AustraliaFederal-provincial-territorial relationsHealthHealth care systemInnovation3141304RayRacetteRayRacette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1245)[English]That's interesting.I was highly surprised when you mentioned that in Sweden they spend less but they get more bang out of their buck. Are there ways we can also be more efficient in Canada, some concrete ways? If we're talking about federal jurisdiction, all the better, but how come our health systems are so rusted?HealthHealth care systemInnovationSweden31413073141308RayRacetteRayRacette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1245)[English]You mentioned that in Sweden 97% is public funding. We see a new trend in Canada of having individual patients pay more in several ways. Compare the two approaches, and give me your opinion on where private money is appropriate or if we should stick to public funding.HealthInnovation3141311RayRacetteRayRacette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1235)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I want to start by thanking the witnesses joining us today, both in person and via teleconference.Your participation is greatly appreciated. You are giving us more insight into health care innovation.My first questions are for Marie-Claude Prémont.In a paper on payments by patients for health care paid out of public funds, you highlight that 30% of Quebec’s patients are without a family doctor. You also say that that proportion is the highest in Canada even though there are 20% more family doctors per capita in Quebec than in other provinces.What are the underlying causes of the doctor shortage in Quebec? In your presentation, you laid out three areas where the federal government could get involved, one being training. I would also like to know what the broader implications of the doctor shortage are for the health care system in Quebec. Do you know where things stand elsewhere in Canada? In your view, what should be done to solve that problem?In the same paper, you discuss the fact that Quebec has developed new financing formulas to support family medicine groups and network clinics. What types of financing formulas have been developed in Quebec to support the creation of these multidisciplinary health care teams? What are the pros and cons of the different payment schemes?My next set of questions is for Kent Smith-Windsor.Since I joined the Standing Committee on Health, I have been hearing about the Saskatoon experience. I would like a sense of what you do in your province. I know there's been progress and innovation in the health sector. I also know that the Saskatchewan government applies lean principles to health care services.Would you kindly give the committee some examples of lean principles at work in health care? Is there any tie-in with best practices? In your view, what other strategies, policies or practices could be implemented in conjunction with the lean approach to promote efficiency and value-for-money within the health care system?Thank you.DoctorsHealthHealth care systemInnovationProvince of QuebecSaskatoon31025573102558310255931025603102561310256231025633102564310256531025663102567LibbyDaviesVancouver EastLibbyDaviesVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1250)[English]Thank you.Thanks to our witnesses for coming by. You mentioned a white paper will be coming out next month. If you could table it the committee, that would appreciated. I think it would benefit our study.You touched on how important research and development are to the development of our solar industry. It is an industry that's in constant development, and it's one that's very dependent on innovation. We know that in the last budget recently the government has cut funding to certain research councils, and I'm thinking particularly of NSERC. As well, they have cut the SR and ED tax credit. I am wondering if you know of any projects relative to solar energy that will be affected by these cuts. Can you explain in more detail the importance of federal support for R and D for solar energy?Budget cutsEnergy and fuelInnovationSolar energy3099816309981730998183099819LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightIanMacLellan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1250)[English]Thanks.In our last committee meeting, we spoke a lot about the United States. We've also spoken about it today. We know that the United States is the main direct competitor of Canada for investments in solar energy. You talked about the two things that the United States has done that Canada could learn from. You talked about the availability of tax credits, as well as building codes and environmental standards. Could you elaborate on the fiscal measures that we could use here in Canada to stimulate investment?Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovation30998283099829JohnGormanJohnGorman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1255)[English]Mr. Schmidt, innovation is the idea of improving an existing market need in a new way and the creation of new value through solutions that meet new market needs in new ways. There's nothing new about shale extraction; it has been around since the 1920s. Laricina's idea doesn't sound particularly new to me either. In the 1970s, the Illinois Institute of Technology was working on this idea, so it has been in the works for about 40 years. My question is more specific to the electrical demand of your process versus, say, the geothermic fuel cells process of shale extraction that uses waste heat. Do you have figures comparing your process and the geothermic fuel cells process? Energy and fuelInnovationTar sands30998373099838LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightGlenSchmidt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1255)[English]Okay.How would you compare your process with the geothermic fuel cells process?Energy and fuelInnovation30998403099841GlenSchmidtGlenSchmidt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1255)[English]Therefore, how can you present your idea as innovative if you don't know the other innovative players in your own market?Energy and fuelInnovation3099843GlenSchmidtGlenSchmidt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1255)[English]That's the shale oil extraction market. Energy and fuelInnovation3099845GlenSchmidtGlenSchmidt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1255)[English]What is the difference? Could you elucidate?Energy and fuelInnovation3099847GlenSchmidtGlenSchmidt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1220)[English]Thanks to our witnesses.I'd like to go first to Mr. Bleaney. You mentioned the cuts to the SR and ED program. We've heard a lot from industry testifying at committee against these cuts; notably RIM came to the industry committee and also expressed concerns over these cuts. We know the government has said they would take these and the money they would be saving from the SR and ED program and putting that into IRAP. What's your take on the allocation of funds?Energy and fuelInnovationScientific Research and Experimental Development Tax Incentive Program3094079309408030940813094082LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightBobBleaney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1220)[English]Thanks.I want to go on to some questions for Mr. Weis from the Pembina Institute.[Translation]All of us followed the U.S. presidential elections a few weeks ago. The President is committed to invest 3% of the GDP in R and D, while in Canada, our investment represents, I think, 1.8% of our GDP.The Pembina Institute carried out in 2009 a study titled[English]“United States to invest over six times more per capita in renewable energy and energy efficiency than Canada”.[Translation]Would you take us through the results of this study?Energy and fuelGovernment assistanceInnovationResearch and researchers309408830940893094090309409130940923094093BobBleaneyTimWeis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1220)[English]That's great. I know that you also studied at the University of Quebec at Rimouski. There you also studied the development of solar energy in remote communities. What would be the specific federal policies that we could put into place to encourage this industry in particular?Energy and fuelGovernment policyInnovation30941003094101TimWeisTimWeis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau (Berthier—Maskinongé, NDP): (0930)[English]I would like to thank you both for being here. Rex, perhaps you could elaborate on what you just said. You said that you need greater communication between the two levels. How can the federal government help with that?Distribution and service industriesGovernment assistanceGrain industryInnovationOilseed industryScientific research and scientists3092217MervTweedBrandon—SourisRexNewkirk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (0930)[English]Do you think the Canadian federal government is doing enough to support innovation and technology? On the world scene, we export a lot, but how are we doing compared to other countries?Distribution and service industriesGovernment assistanceGrain industryInnovationOilseed industryScientific research and scientists3092224RexNewkirkRexNewkirk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1100)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.Before starting, I would like to have the consent of all members to the following motion:[English]That the Committee immediately commence a study, as it has been requested by the Standing Committee on Finance in their motion adopted on October 31, 2012, into the subject matter of clauses 269 to 298 in C-45, A second Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 29, 2012 and other measures, and that the Committee report to the Finance Committee suggested amendments to these clauses by November 20th, at 5 p.m. HealthInnovation306959330695943069595LibbyDaviesVancouver EastLibbyDaviesVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1105)[Translation]Thank you for your suggestion, Madam Chair. We could include it later in committee business, to have it passed. I just wanted to present it, to get the consent of the entire committee. Thank you.HealthInnovation3069602LibbyDaviesVancouver EastLibbyDaviesVancouver East//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1155)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I would first like to thank all of the witnesses for coming to talk to us about their innovation initiatives today.My first question is for Ms. Thomassin and Ms. Lemire.As you know, Quebec is always in the vanguard when it comes to certain projects, particularly in the socio-medical field. If I understand correctly, the UQTR multidisciplinary clinic offers health care to the public in the region and to employees, retired employees and their families, in a training environment designed for students in a number of health care disciplines. It offers on-going care, particularly in speech therapy and occupational therapy. I applaud that initiative. I was one of the physicians when I did my residency in Quebec. At that time, I said that the best thing was for physicians to be multidisciplinary in a closely related field. I see here that you are ahead of the physicians. I therefore applaud the work you are doing. This might be a case of best practices that could be reproduced elsewhere in Canada.Do you know whether there are models like yours elsewhere in Quebec or Canada? What is the main obstacle to setting up a clinic like yours?I would also like to focus a little on access to health care and ask you whether a clinic like yours means that waiting time for seeing a general practitioner or specialist physician can be reduced.Caregivers and health care professionalsHealthInnovationMedical centresWork-based training306975130697523069753306975430697553069756LibbyDaviesVancouver EastLyneThomassin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1200)[English]Yes, a quick question, please.[Translation]My question is for José Côté.I congratulate you on the work you are doing on innovative practices. I know your goal is to support and equip patients using virtual interventions.What are the factors that distinguish a patient who is capable of managing their own care from another patient who has trouble doing it? Are there social factors that come into the equation?I recall the case of a transplant patient who decided not to take her anti-rejection medication, who had to make a choice between her medication, being on the street, and paying her rent. She is now on dialysis, unfortunately.Chronic diseasesDepressionHealthInnovation30697663069767306976830697693069770LibbyDaviesVancouver EastJoséCôté//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1200)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I would first like to thank the witnesses for joining us today. They have provided us with very relevant and important information on innovation in health care.Based on the presentations that we have heard this morning, my conclusion is that Canada has difficulty transforming basic research into applied research, which could allow Canadians to benefit from those innovations.Dr. Menon, my understanding based on your remarks is that our technologies, which are paid for by Canadian taxpayers, are sent abroad because our corporate culture does not include venture capital. So, unfortunately, people abroad are the ones who will take advantage of Canadian innovation. Could you tell me how the new research and development government cuts are going to further compromise a situation that is already deplorable, in my opinion?Budget cutsHealthInnovationMedical research30610383061039306104030610413061042JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah: (1205)[Translation]I would like to ask a question about universities. Earlier you mentioned that there is apparently a shortage of qualified people who make molecules. How could the government address this problem? Chemical sciences and chemistsColleges and universitiesHealthInnovation30610513061052JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulDonaldWeaver//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1210)[Translation]Thank you very much for your testimony.One thing struck me in all of your presentations. There is in fact a lack of coordination in the long chain from research, through development, to the final product, and all the way to both medical and economic benefits for Canadians. I keep thinking to myself that Canada is in a very tight economic situation with budget cuts. The easy solution, but not necessarily the appropriate one, would be for the Government of Canada to invest more and give more money to our researchers and our institutions. My question has two parts. First of all, are there low-cost or zero-cost initiatives that we could implement in Canada, instead of investing new amounts in various areas of research and development? As I mentioned, given the deficit, the goal is not to make the government spend more, but to find more efficient ways to support research in Canada. Furthermore, if you insist on talking about financial support, could you perhaps tell us about the spinoffs or benefits? In fact, I still think that, when you invest in research and development, the benefits will come later. If you have the information, could you provide us with figures or data on the potential spinoffs derived from the investments made by the Government of Canada in research and development?My question is for anyone knowledgeable on the matter. Government assistanceHealthInnovationMedical research306107730610783061079306108030610813061082JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1215)[English]It was also mentioned that one of the solutions would be to bring all those competent people together to work in cooperation. What is the role of the federal government in achieving this? The way I view things, those are things happening on the ground, in institutes or universities. How can the federal government help bring these people together so we can have better synergy?HealthInnovation3061090RaviMenonDonaldWeaver//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1225)[Translation]I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us.My first questions are for the representatives from Canada Health Infoway.I am not sure if you remember the 2005 report that you had commissioned through Booz Allen Hamilton, a consulting firm. This report tried to anticipate the costs that Canada Health Infoway would incur, as well as the benefits that the organization could have on our various health care systems in Canada. The net savings were estimated at $39.8 billion over 20 years. Do you remember that report? If so, could you tell us about those estimates? Have the numbers changed seven years later? I know there have been additional costs for implementing Canada Health Infoway. Could you tell me more about the study on investments and benefits?Canada Health InfowayCostsHealthInnovation3047077304707830470793047080JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulRichardAlvarez//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1230)[Translation]Thank you. In that case, I will stick to more recent figures.On February 9, 2011, you yourself announced an investment of $380 million to set up electronic health records. Also, your objective was to encourage 8,000 to 9,000 additional doctors and nurse practitioners to sign up by March 2011 for the electronic health records program for the doctors' offices in their province or territory. The deadline has passed. At the end of the day, have you managed, with the $380 million investment, to convince those 8,000 or 9,000 additional doctors and nurses to register for the program?Caregivers and health care professionalsElectronic health recordsHealthInnovation304708830470893047090RichardAlvarezMikeSheridan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1230)[Translation]Thank you very much for the information.In the short time that I have left, I am going to ask you one last question.The federal government has invested a total of $2.1 billion in the Infoway. According to the Auditor General of Canada, experts have estimated the total costs of implementation at $10 billion.So who is right? Will the cost be $10 billion, as the Auditor General of Canada suggests, or $2.1 billion, as the Government of Canada estimates?HealthInnovation3047092304709330470943047095MikeSheridanRichardAlvarez//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1235)[Translation]Good afternoon. I would like to thank everyone for coming here.According to the Natural Resources Canada Strategy for science and technology, the department has a staff of 3,000 employees supporting scientific and technological activities.How many research and development employees at Natural Resources Canada work in the energy sector, in particular?Budget cutsDepartment of Natural ResourcesEnergy and fuelInnovationLayoffs and job losses304680130468023046803LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightMartinAubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1235)[Translation]So we have more than 500 employees.Energy and fuelInnovation3046807MartinAubéMartinAubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1235)[Translation]According to the 2012 budget, cuts to the tune of $68 million will be made to Natural Resources Canada for the fiscal year 2012-2013. We know that a further $85 million will be cut the following year.According to the Public Service Alliance of Canada, some 200 unionized jobs will be eliminated. The Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada estimates that 156 professional and scientific positions in Natural Resources Canada will be affected by these federal budget cutbacks.In all, how many professionals working in your branch to support energy innovation will be transferred or laid off?Energy and fuelInnovation304680930468103046811MartinAubéMartinAubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1240)[Translation]Are you aware of the impact of these cutbacks? Are there any projects that you will have to abandon?Energy and fuelInnovation3046815MartinAubéMarcD'Iorio//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1240)[Translation]In setting your priorities, have you started to determine which sectors will be affected next year by the forecast $85-million cutback? We know that there will be a $107-million reduction the following year. Do you have any idea which sectors will be affected?Energy and fuelInnovation3046819MarcD'IorioMartinAubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1240)[Translation]Thank you.My last question is related to page 9 of your presentation. Earlier this week, I was reading a Senate report published in July 2012 that stated that, in 2010, the non-renewable fuel industry received the largest proportion of public R&D subsidies. The results of this study were based on the data provided by Canada to the International Energy Agency, and show that about three out of four dollars invested by the federal government went to R&D for non-renewable energy sources. I know that this definitely does not correspond to the table you presented on page 9.However, I believe the information in the Senate report included carbon capture and storage in the fossil fuels category. Are the numbers closer to what is actually happening if we include R&D investments for fossil fuels in carbon capture funding?Energy and fuelFossil fuelsGovernment expendituresInnovation304682230468233046824MartinAubéMarcD'Iorio//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette (Drummond, NDP): (1250)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you to our witnesses.My first question is about the ecoENERGY program, which has come under heavy criticism. It has been called a disguised subsidy for oil companies instead of a subsidy for renewable energy projects.My question is very simple: what percentage of the funds from the ecoENERGY program were allocated to fossil fuel businesses?ecoENERGY InitiativesEnergy and fuelFossil fuelsGovernment expendituresInnovation3046853304685430468553046856LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightMarcD'Iorio//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1250)[Translation]It would be interesting to know the percentage, because a general term like "the vast majority" or "the narrow majority", is not—Energy and fuelInnovation3046861MarcD'IorioMarcD'Iorio//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1250)[Translation]Thank you very much.We would also like to know how much money or what percentage of the funds were invested in carbon storage.ecoENERGY InitiativesEnergy and fuelGovernment expendituresInnovation30468633046864MarcD'IorioMarcD'Iorio//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1250)[Translation]In my humble opinion, this initiative is moving too quickly. In fact, we seriously criticize carbon storage for environmental reasons. We particularly fear this causing small earthquakes.Before further expanding on this carbon storage initiative, have you done any research to see if this technology is mature?Energy and fuelInnovation30468693046870MarcD'IorioMarcD'Iorio//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1250)[Translation]The National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy is an organization that will cease to exist, unfortunately, because of federal cutbacks. It is unfortunate because it was totally independent and allowed for an exchange of views between the economy and the environment. Recently, it produced a final report entitled "Framing the Future: Embracing the Low-Carbon Economy". Unfortunately, since 2008, the Conservative government has not had the courage to put a price on carbon.The National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy therefore tells us that the longer we wait, the more costly it will be for future generations. People say that putting a price on carbon now will be expensive for the Canadian people, but that is not true. In fact, the longer we wait, the more future generations will pay the bill, which is never mentioned enough.Did you take this report into account when creating innovation programs? Were the recommendations that were made submitted to you? Have you had time to study them?Carbon creditsEnergy and fuelInnovationNational Round Table on the Environment and the Economy304687330468743046875MarcD'IorioMarcD'Iorio//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/9135MassimoPacettiMassimo-PacettiSaint-Léonard—Saint-MichelIndependentQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PacettiMassimo_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Massimo Pacetti (Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, Lib.): (1740)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses for appearing.I'm just going to ask a quick question to the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and to the Canadian Federation of Students, because I think you guys were saying the same thing. Mr. Everson, you were saying that government's not moving when it comes to innovation, and it has to do a bit of a better job. Mr. Awad, you were saying that Canada does not have the ability to compete, that Canada's not competing, and we see it in the statistics.Are you both saying the same thing, or am I misinterpreting what is being said? I'd like your comments. InnovationPre-budget consultationsResearch and researchers30410753041076JamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducWarrenEverson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1835)[English]Just quickly, for the Chamber of Commerce, we were talking about the fact that our position is maybe to invest more in terms of green technology or in terms of having a green economy. What is your members' view on that, in terms of developing innovations on that front?Green economyInnovationPre-budget consultations3041157AdamAwadWarrenEverson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71530DjaouidaSellahDjaouida-SellahSaint-Bruno—Saint-HubertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/SellahDjaouida_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Djaouida Sellah (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, NDP): (1205)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.I want to start by thanking the witnesses for being with us today to speak about technological innovation in health care.My first question is for Mr. Thompson of the Assembly of First Nations. If I still have time after that, I will have a question for the Manitoba eHealth Program representative.Realistically, given the conditions first nations peoples are living in today, would you say you need technology or, more importantly, decent housing, drinking water and affordable food?Having visited some of these areas at the beginning of the year, I am clearly thinking about the situation facing the Attawapiskat First Nation and the price of food in the northern communities. People there have to pay more than $50 a kilo for roast beef, over $8 for a 2-litre carton of milk, $14 for a kilo of dry spaghetti on sale, and $20 for a cabbage.I am not trying to say that meeting people's basic needs and encouraging technology and innovation are mutually exclusive. However, what do you think needs to be done to ensure that first nations have access to quality health care and a better quality of life? It is clear that prevention is paramount when it comes to health.My second question is for Mr. Girard.Why do you think Manitoba is further along in adopting electronic records than the rest of Canada?Electronic health recordsFirst NationsHealthHealth services accessibilityInnovationManitobaRural communities30374433037444303744530374463037447303744830374493037450JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1215)[English]Thank you very much.My first question would be to Mr. Girard. My colleague, Libby Davies, asked you a question earlier, but I think you ran out of time to answer.Do you remember the question?Experimental methodsHealthInnovation303749230374933037494JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulRogerGirard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1215)[English]It was about the importance of sustainability of those great pilot projects and how we can make sure they are implemented throughout Canada and that their level of funding is available each year.Experimental methodsHealthInnovation3037496RogerGirardRogerGirard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1215)[English]Okay, thank you.My next question is to Mr. Thompson.I don't know if you remember, but in 1997 there was the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples, which recommended that we needed 10,000 aboriginal health care providers. Although I think it's great that we can make sure that technology and e-health can help those communities, do you still believe we need more aboriginal health care providers on the ground?Caregivers and health care professionalsHealthInnovation303750030375013037502RogerGirardJonathanThompson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1220)[English]Thank you.Dr. Cafazzo, you mentioned how important health care is, and I fully agree with you. In your opinion, how could this type of self-care help those communities?HealthInnovation30375053037506JonathanThompsonJosephCafazzo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1155)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Ms. Sabourin, I have a question for you. On your Internet portal, you provide an electronic health service for Aboriginal and Inuit communities. Could you tell us more about the services provided through this Internet portal? Aboriginal peoplesHealthInformation disseminationInnovationInternet302710130271023027103JoySmithKildonan—St. PaulBarbaraSabourin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1155)[English]Okay.In that case, my question will be for Dr. Beaudet.[Translation]Just now you talked about personalized medicines and about identifying biomarkers that could help patients. For example, before my grandfather passed away, he had Alzheimer's. Could you give us some concrete examples in reference to a patient who has or might have Alzheimer's? What would the process be and how could it be implemented? Alzheimer diseaseHealthInnovation3027106302710730271083027109BarbaraSabourinAlainBeaudet//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1200)[Translation]Could you tell us about the challenges in implementing this great innovation across Canada?HealthInnovation3027113AlainBeaudetAlainBeaudet//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1200)[Translation]Thank you. I am going to change topics slightly. Let us talk about your research institute’s budget that is going to be cut by $15 million over the next three years. To what extent will those cuts affect the good work that you are doing? Budget cutsHealthInnovation30271163027117AlainBeaudetAlainBeaudet//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1200)[Translation]I think that, for the cuts planned for 2012-2013, we are talking about $15 million for your research institute, $30 million for 2013-2014, and another $30 million for 2014-2015.HealthInnovation3027120AlainBeaudetAlainBeaudet//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71447PierreNantelPierre-NantelLongueuil—Pierre-BoucherNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/NantelPierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Nantel: (1220)[English]That's amazing experience.[Translation]I very much appreciate your great commitment. How do you intend to deal with the budget cuts that are being imposed on you? Surely, you will have to cut back on some activities. How are you going to do that?Budget cutsHealthInnovation302718930271903027191BarbaraSabourinBarbaraSabourin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71447PierreNantelPierre-NantelLongueuil—Pierre-BoucherNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/NantelPierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Nantel: (1220)[Translation]Ms. Sabourin, you mention that the world is changing and that we need to change with it. I'm sure you are right. There have been technological advances that we could not have imagined in the past. We all have a BlackBerry. I hope everyone is listening to you, even if we are working at the same time.There is certainly a savings in time, particularly when it comes to transport. An average citizen will surely find that this is strange because health needs are increasing. Of course, we all want to be more efficient, but I am convinced—and I think you are very brave to appear here today—that you are in a very challenging situation. You are being asked to do more with less. That is quite something. I am aware that there are savings to be made and that there always will be, for example, with respect to office supplies, compared with 10 years ago. We can also stop buying cartridges.HealthHealth care systemInnovationSavings30271963027197BarbaraSabourinJoySmithKildonan—St. Paul//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1130)[Translation]Our study is also about innovation. How do you see patents on intellectual property? Does that help innovation or hinder it?InnovationIntellectual property3026587DianeLankDianeLank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg (Terrebonne—Blainville, NDP): (1600)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the witnesses for joining us today.This issue is extremely important to us, and I am sure it is also important to you since you have come to see us and you do a lot of work in that area.The committee members have just come back from Washington. We had lengthy discussions on this topic with our American neighbours, and we talked about what they were doing. We discussed this topic with them thoroughly. They said that, as parliamentarians, we should not regulate that growing technological sector too much, since we don't want to discourage innovation.Mr. Péladeau, what are your thoughts on that? Are we necessarily sacrificing innovation by imposing the regulations? If not, is there a balance we could strike?InnovationPrivacy and data protectionPrivacy of personal recordsSocial networking sites3020260Pierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookePierrôtPéladeau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Gentlemen, thank you for joining us today.Over the past few months, we have heard people advertise their batteries or say that we have to use propane gas, or methane, or electrification. I understand all that. Everyone is doing their own thing. Mr. Wolf said—and I agree with him—that it is about systems, transition and integration. That is where we are at. The feds have a role to play. They have already invested quite a lot in this. Regardless of the government, the relationship with Bombardier is fantastic, particularly in terms of developing certain modes of transportation.Today, during my seven minutes, I would like us to talk about regulations and about how the Canadian government can fully play its role as a partner. We are talking about smart regulations that are applied properly. Is it only a question of money? We are actually going through an economic crisis and taxpayers have to be respected. However, I certainly agree with you in saying that it is not an expense, but an investment. What do we have to do in terms of safety and regulations? Since we are at the Standing Committee of Transport, imagine that you are the Minister of Transport. He has a role to play. It might have to do with research and development in the industry, but let's stick to transport. You talked about infrastructures. I could go back to that topic. If you each had a recommendation to make in terms of regulations, would it have to do with the integration of markets between Europe, Canada and North America? Are we better served by strictly limiting ourselves to North America? I don't think so.Mr. Couture, you may start. Tell us in a few sentences what the role of the federal government is and what your recommendation is. I don't just want to hear about money. Government assistanceInnovationScience and technology3016559301656030165613016562301656330165643016565LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundEtienneCouture//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1145)[Translation]In practical terms, you would like to see a federal-provincial-territorial conference led by the Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, that would come up with an integrated version, complying with the various jurisdictions. Is that right?InnovationScience and technology3016568EtienneCoutureEtienneCouture//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1150)[Translation]In that case, I will end up joining the Réseau des ingénieurs du Québec.InnovationScience and technology3016570EtienneCoutureEtienneCouture//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1150)[Translation]Mr. Seïn Pyun, Bombardier is an international leader. You are around those models every day and you must be dealing with many governments. In your view, what should the role of the Canadian government be in what we are currently looking for? Electric vehiclesInnovationScience and technology3016573EtienneCouturePierre SeïnPyun//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1150)[Translation]When you talk about integration and procurement policy, are you also referring to the made-in-Canada procurement legislation, or are you simply trying to make sure that we are all on the same page in terms of needs and equipment planning, for example?Government contractsInnovationLegislationProduct of CanadaScience and technology3016576Pierre SeïnPyunPierre SeïnPyun//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1150)[English]In a few words, Mr. Fuller, regarding regulation, I noticed that you spoke about the importance of being at the same level as those in Europe, and you said we have to make some choices depending on the rail and all that. If you were the Minister of Transport, what is the first thing you would have to do to make things happen?InnovationScience and technology3016581Pierre SeïnPyunLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen Sound//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (1220)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you for joining us. My only regret this morning is that there are so many of you and I only have five minutes. My first observation has to do with the fact that Canada has fallen behind in the development of passenger transit, in particular. I am not going to ask you to comment on that, but I have come to the conclusion that strong political leadership could be a considerable change. In addition, it seems that we have all the resources we need.When I was in my third year of high school, at the age of 14 or 15, my geography teacher talked about the possibility of a high-speed train between Quebec City and Windsor. As a teacher, 15 years later, I also talked about it. Now that I am an MP, 25 or 35 years later, there is still no high-speed train allowing me to travel between Trois-Rivières and Ottawa. It is not expected in the short term and it might not even happen during my career.Can we soon foresee a high-speed train technology that would enable us to use the existing rights-of-way in the Quebec-Windsor corridor, without having to spend huge amounts of money? So without spending the amounts required for high-speed rail technology, for instance, can we still have an effective and profitable technology?High-speed railInnovationScience and technology30166893016690301669130166923016693LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundPaulLarouche//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1220)[Translation]The cruising speed of a train would be 200 km/h. For the Trois-Rivières-Montreal route, which is quite frequent, it would mean that it could be done in half an hour or 40 minutes. What distance does the train have to travel before it reaches its full cruising speed and before it has to slow down for the next stop? In other words, how many stops can we have in that corridor and still be able to talk about a high-speed train?InnovationScience and technology3016695PaulLarouchePaulLarouche//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1220)[Translation]Thank you.InnovationScience and technology3016698PaulLarouchePierre SeïnPyun//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1220)[Translation]… could you tell us where we are at with the wheel motor? Mr. Couture had set it up, then he disappeared to the benefit of a 3M company, which, in turn, also disappeared. The wheel motor came back, but without any concrete application. Where is that system at?InnovationScience and technology3016704LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundEtienneCouture//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1225)[Translation]How much time do we need to develop that project, which, if I am not mistaken, is more of an idea than a project? Who provides the funds?InnovationScience and technology3016706EtienneCoutureLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen Sound//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1230)[English]Mr. Chair, I will be sharing my time with Denis.[Translation]I would like to ask a question so that we have time to go over the issue. Let us go back to the wheel motor project. What type of funding do we need to move ahead with the research? How long do you think it would take for it to become available? Who pays the bill and how do we connect with the other provinces? We really are actually thinking of a national public transit strategy. InnovationScience and technology3016736301673730167383016739LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundEtienneCouture//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1230)[Translation]Do you have any idea of what kind of budget we would need for this to become reality?InnovationScience and technology3016741EtienneCoutureEtienneCouture//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (1140)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. That is very interesting. We have heard about a number of possibilities with regard to new technology. I will be honest with you; what interests me right now is intellectual property and regulations.A person can have a wonderful idea, but if he does not have the necessary support from Transport Canada, for example, in terms of certain regulations or the fostering of the investment environment, then there is a problem. Our role here is to make recommendations, particularly with regard to regulations. We must ensure that we are a catalyst and not an inhibitor when it comes to technology.Mr. Habicht, if I understand correctly, you would like smart regulations to be established that would eliminate paperwork and promote a system that operates on a case by case basis. You spoke about a percentage of 96% to 100%, which I found interesting. To reach 100%, we must change sulphur content labelling. Do you also need other partnerships in which the government could play a role or do you have sufficient regulatory measures in place that allow you to be specific?InnovationRegulationRoads and road transportation300238130023823002383LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundToddHabicht//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1145)[English] Come to Quebec, too.[Translation]Mr. Hughson, we are moving more and more into a digital era. You are talking about all the intelligent systems, including SYNC. Are you satisfied when it comes to intellectual property? This is not just a matter of saying that we will bring Missouri's technology to Canada. You know that Montreal is a digital capital. Many things are also being done in Calgary and other places.Right now, what is the status of our own regulations? We want to ensure that we can maintain our share of the market and be people who will not only promote but also carry out projects in order to be involved in anything that has to do with intelligent systems in this car.InnovationIntellectual propertyLegislationMarket shareRoads and road transportation300238730023883002389ToddHabichtEarlHughson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1145)[English]What about smart regulations? There are issues with red tape. I remember in the past that we've focused on that being the way government works. It's not only just based on risk management and all that. What about smart regulations as a recommendation? InnovationLegislationRoads and road transportation3002395LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen Sound//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (1200)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to take a few seconds to congratulate you on your appointment to chair. I was not able to be here last week. It is a pleasure to work under your direction.Hello gentlemen. Thank you for being here with us. Clearly, five minutes is very little time in which to share so much expertise. We should also exchange business cards so that we can keep in touch.My first question is for Mr. Hughson. At the very beginning of your presentation, I believe that you gave an important statistic, but I am not sure whether I understood you correctly. You said that, right now, 30% of cars have a high amount of electronic content and that this number is projected to move to 50%. Is this the statistic that you gave?Electric vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation3002484300248530024863002487LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundEarlHughson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1200)[Translation]So this is not an objective to achieve but, rather, a consequence of the development of vehicle technology. It was 50% of the cost.Approximately how many years will it be before 50% of the cost of the car is related to computer technology innovations?CostsInnovationRoads and road transportation30024893002490EarlHughsonEarlHughson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1205)[Translation]How could the federal government become a partner in enhancing Canada's visibility both nationally and internationally so that our country can become a major player or a more important player than it is right now in this field?InnovationRoads and road transportation3002492EarlHughsonEarlHughson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1205)[Translation]You are talking about demonstrations, but can you give me concrete examples? Are we talking here about renting a booth at a car show to demonstrate a technology or are we taking about creating prototypes that could be seen on our roads?InnovationRoads and road transportation3002497EarlHughsonEarlHughson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, NDP): (1225)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Tarasco, I find this subject fascinating. I would like to thank all of the witnesses. I learned a lot today.I would like to come back to investments. If I understood what you said earlier correctly, Williams Hybrid Power is your only competitor. Is that correct?InnovationInvestmentRoads and road transportation300259430025953002596LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundGregTarasco//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1225)[Translation]You spoke about a $10 billion market. In these circumstances, I do not see why you need to wait for government funding before moving forward. Why is that necessary if a $10 billion market is available? If I were in that situation, I would want to move quickly rather than waiting for other industries to use the same technology. I would get ahead of the game.Government assistanceInnovationRoads and road transportation3002599GregTarascoGregTarasco//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1225)[Translation]If I wanted to equip my electric vehicle with a flywheel, how much would it cost me?CostsEnergy storageInnovationRoads and road transportation3002602GregTarascoGregTarasco//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1225)[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Hughson, you said earlier that new technologies would make it possible to ease traffic congestion. Were you referring to the GPS system or to other innovations?InnovationRoad traffic congestionRoads and road transportationScience and technology30026043002605GregTarascoEarlHughson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1230)[Translation]That is more about reducing the number of accidents.A friend of mine has a car equipped with sensors. They are located at the back of the car, making it possible for the car to park itself. The sensors did not pick up the presence of a small metal pole, and his car hit it. He had to spend approximately $15,000 to repair his vehicle. He had to replace his entire back bumper, which was destroyed, and the sensors. They are very expensive parts. It is also very costly for the insurance companies. This type of system is available when you buy a car, but as soon as it breaks down, it is very expensive to repair.Have you thought about that?InnovationParking lotsRoads and road transportationScience and technology300260930026103002611EarlHughsonEarlHughson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1440)[English]Mr. Marshall, you touched on this idea of innovation and how maybe one of the differences is not always trying to be innovative. I don't know if you're familiar with[Translation]the Caisses Desjardins,[English]which is one of these incredible credit cooperatives in Quebec, and really across Canada now. It's quite innovative in a lot of the financial-based products that it offers to its clientele. What I find interesting is that we think the major driver of innovation is necessarily competition. Do you have some thoughts on that? CompetitionCooperativesInnovation2970328RobertMarshallRobertMarshall//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71357Ruth EllenBrosseauRuthEllen-BrosseauBerthier—MaskinongéNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/BrosseauRuthEllen_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ruth Ellen Brosseau: (1445)[English]It's really important to invest in research and innovation, I guess. Do you have a lot of money to invest? How does that work? How do you try to keep up with the coming changes and try to keep ahead? Is that a problem for you?Alberta Association of Co-operative Seed Cleaning PlantsCooperativesInnovation2969003JohnMcBainJohnMcBain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (0935)[Translation]Thank you very much.My next question is for Mr. Brun.The Jenkins report on federal support for innovation, a project that Monique Leroux of Desjardins Group worked on, states that Canadian businesses must innovate in order for Canada to maintain its standard of living.How do you think the cooperative movement can contribute to innovation? Can you give us any examples?CooperativesInnovation29668622966863BrigitteGagnéBernardBrun//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1120)[Translation]Thank you to all of our witnesses for their briefs.You've given us a number of recommendations. You've done an excellent job of describing the situation. You've also put forward solutions and real examples of the contribution and innovation of the cooperative movement. You've risen to the challenges posed by the current climate. I think it's wonderful. I want to sincerely thank you for everything you're doing in that respect.My background is in agronomy, so I am extremely interested in the agricultural side of things. I am also the industry critic, so the innovation that cooperative businesses have shown is also of interest to me.Mr. Richard and Mr. Harel, you referred to some very innovative energy projects that La Coop fédérée was working on.Have you been able to access federal R and D programs? Did those programs suit the needs of the cooperative movement?Biomass energyCooperativesGovernment assistanceInnovationResearch and researchers29672082967209BlakeRichardsWild RoseDenisRichard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1125)[Translation]Do you think the federal government should have a role in facilitating these kinds of partnerships?CooperativesGovernment assistanceInnovationResearch and researchers2967215Jean-FrançoisHarelJean-FrançoisHarel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71341MylèneFreemanMylène-FreemanArgenteuil—Papineau—MirabelNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/FreemanMylène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Mylène Freeman (Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, NDP): (1630)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.If you'll allow me, Mr. Chair, I'll make a quick a comment to the remarks that I think my colleague Monsieur Lemieux was talking about earlier—my colleague from across la rivière des Outaouais.I find it interesting that $4 million is not seen as a good return on investment when, in a recession, these are areas and regions where jobs will be created. In an area like yours and mine, where we do see companies leave and cooperatives formed as a result, that does keep jobs in our regions at a time when we need them. And they do form because these jobs are leaving. That's why I think that $4 million, when you're making choices in a budget during a recession, is well worth the investment.That's my little comment. I will now move to Madame Bédard and Monsieur Riendeau.[Translation]I am pleased that the representatives from Agropur are here. The Oka cheese factory is located in my riding. It is a good example. The purchase of the Oka Abbey helped to create and maintain jobs in the region. This is a good example of what a cooperative can do and how it can benefit our regions.Agropur is a large international cooperative that has been around for 75 years. It has remained competitive, as demonstrated by its growth and success. In your opinion, what role must cooperatives play in innovation within cooperatives and in the operation of the market?Is my question clear?CompetitionCooperativesInnovation2967964BlakeRichardsWild RoseSergeRiendeau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (0925)[Translation]Thank you very much.This approach is very much a collaborative one. Do you think that it encourages innovation more than a more closed and secret approach to intellectual property?InnovationIntellectual property2961897ClémentFortinClémentFortin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (0910)[English]I'll come back to that. Don't worry. Safety is also a major issue for me.[Translation]You have many types of detectors, as we see in your slides. Do you have a fatigue detector?You referred to human resources. Human resources management is important. Without getting into the labour dispute at Canadian Pacific, I would like us to discuss the human aspect. You cannot just have detectors all the time. What are you doing?Mr. Chair, people are constantly chatting when I am asking questions. I am starting to get sick of it.Human resourcesInnovationRail transport safetyRail transportation and railways2958703295870429587052958706MervTweedBrandon—SourisMervTweedBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[Translation]I respect people and I would like the same in return, especially as, at this point, we are talking about human beings managing fatigue.What is your association doing in this regard? What more should it do? It would seem that this is a problem and that it needs to be solved.InnovationRail transportation and railways29587092958710MervTweedBrandon—SourisMichaelBourque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[Translation]I am told that it is 24/7, that engineers sometimes work for long periods. How do you increase monitoring? This is not only anecdotal, it is actually happening. Should Parliament be enforcing the Railway Safety Act?In the labour dispute at Canadian Pacific, I do not understand why the employer could not find a solution on fatigue management. You can have all the technology you want, but if people are not fit to do their work, it is useless. I am prepared to think about new ways of monitoring. Essentially, what matters to everyone is to help the public. We know that when things go off the rails, it can lead to major problems. We need to focus on prevention.What else is required? Do we have a part to play in this situation or is it enough for the employer to simply sign an agreement with the union?Human resourcesInnovationRail transport safetyRail transportation and railways295871629587172958718MikeRoneyMichaelBourque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]That is for the future. Is it the near future? Can it go ahead now?InnovationRail transportation and railways2958729MikeLowengerMikeLowenger//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]Merci.I have one more question.[Translation]Mr. Bourque, what percentage of your costs is for fuel? We know that it is the most expensive item for bus operators. That is why we need to reassess what we are using. Overall, for rail companies, what percentage of your cost is related to fuel? CostsEnergy and fuelInnovationRail transportation and railways295873129587322958733MikeLowengerMichaelBourque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]Yes.InnovationRail transportation and railways2958735MichaelBourqueMichaelBourque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (0935)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Because time is of the essence, I will be splitting my time with my colleagues.I want to start by reassuring our guests. If natural resource extraction in Canada leads to more secondary processing, they are going to have even more clients. They can rest easy.In your introduction, you talked about rail renewal. Perhaps I was mistaken but I had imagined it could also be a source of development. When you look at the rail map included in your presentation, it gives a pretty clear picture of development in the southern part of the country. However, I would have liked to have seen a dotted line indicating routes to the north, particularly in Quebec. In the context of the development of the proposed Plan Nord, we will be needing your services.Will private companies be responsible for building their own rail lines to connect to your network or are there development plans in place for the Canadian north?InnovationRail transportation and railways29588062958807295880829588092958810MervTweedBrandon—SourisMichaelBourque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, NDP): (0945)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would like to get back to the issue of level crossings. In my riding, there are a lot of trains, both CP and CN, which is important for employment and transportation. We are quite pleased about that.A commuter train travels through Montreal West. There is a rather complex level crossing there, and a school nearby. That is why almost every morning and every afternoon, the municipal police are on the scene to ensure there are no problems.At downtown railway crossings, where there are a lot of vehicles, traffic is stopped for several minutes. At what point could you consider building a tunnel, which would be safer? We know there are costs related to that, but when could you begin to consider that type of project?InnovationRail transport safetyRail transportation and railways2958833295883429588352958836MervTweedBrandon—SourisDwightTays//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1015)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good morning, gentlemen.[English]What is the current status vis-à-vis Transport Canada right now? You're proposing this renewal. Is there any discussion right now specifically for the grain cars?InnovationRail transportation and railways295893929589402958941MervTweedBrandon—SourisGregoryAziz//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1015)[English]I confirmed that.Voices: Oh, oh!InnovationRail transportation and railways29589432958944GregoryAzizMichael HughNicholson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1015)[English]Okay, but vis-à-vis the government, have you spoken to the minister? Have you spoken to the officials?InnovationRail transportation and railways2958947Michael HughNicholsonGregoryAziz//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1015)[English]What was their reaction?InnovationRail transportation and railways2958949GregoryAzizGregoryAziz//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1015)[English]Okay.One thing that struck me when you spoke about the bears is that if the railcars are obsolete and there's a situation vis-à-vis their safety, I think we have to take a look at that.Again, you want a made-in-Canada solution. I guess if we're promoting renewal, it's going to be an open bid. I have two questions. What is the safety status of that? And secondly, if we're going to a bid and the government says, “Okay, we should renew,” you won't be the only one who can bid on that. What is the competition?InnovationRail transportation and railways2958951295895229589532958954GregoryAzizGregoryAziz//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[English]And what's the safety status of those obsolete cars? Is there any problem right now?InnovationRail transportation and railways2958956GregoryAzizGregoryAziz//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[English]You spoke about the bears, so I guess....InnovationRail transportation and railways2958958GregoryAzizGregoryAziz//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[English]I'm talking about safety in general, not bear safety. If there is a situation that provokes a derailment, it can become an issue.I'm just trying to understand this. I have nothing against renewal if it's good for sustainability, and then we can talk about the role of government in this and who are the players in all of this, but I think we first need a portrait of the situation right now.If they are obsolete because they leak, that might have an impact on safety. I just want to know. If there's no problem vis-à-vis their safety, then there is no problem. I like bears, but that's not my question.InnovationRail transportation and railways2958960295896129589622958963GregoryAzizPeter LeighScott//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[Translation]Let's talk about standards. When we compare what used to be done and what is done today, we see that things are much more efficient.How does that work? I am a bit of a neophyte in this regard. Do you have to respect standards? Would that have an effect on travel? In fact, if there are more cars, more efficiency, would that impact on fuel use? Have you done studies on things like that?InnovationRail transportation and railwaysRailway cars29589682958969Peter LeighScottGregoryAziz//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[Translation]If I understand, you are calling on the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities to recommend, as was done at agriculture, that there be a complete renewal of the grain car fleet. Is that correct?InnovationRail transportation and railways2958971GregoryAzizGregoryAziz//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[Translation]I once sat on that side of the table myself. I understand what happens when ministers or junior ministers meet with you.Essentially, you are here with a business proposition. You are asking politicians to commit, you say the government should take the initiative of renewing the Canadian grain car fleet. Is that the government's role? Do you want incentives? Do you want us to place an order? I am trying to understand.Otherwise, it is simply a self-serving presentation. It may be of value but is this really the place to be making that kind of recommendation?I am all for helping farmers be more efficient and for having an overall impact, including on the environment. Basically, you are asking the government to come up with a program. Is that really the role of government?If it is done for the entire country, it will not just be your company. It will be all companies, and then there are free trade agreements to consider. I am simply trying to understand so that, in the context of our program on technological alternatives, we need to understand how to include this recommendation. It seems as though it is a bit of a one-off presentation, compared to the big picture. I just want to understand. InnovationRail transportation and railways29589742958975295897629589772958978Peter LeighScottMervTweedBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1025)[English]I was talking about whether it's the role of this committee. I have no problem putting up some incentives if there is some valid point for the renewal, but is it the role of the government right now to make that kind of program? It's a valid presentation, but I was wondering whether it's accurate within alternative technology.InnovationRail transportation and railways2958981MervTweedBrandon—SourisMervTweedBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard, NDP): (0945)[Translation]Thank you very much.I would like to thank all the witnesses for joining us.My question is for Professor Gagnon.Does extending the lifetime of patents, like it was done in 1987, drive innovation up in the pharmaceutical sector?InnovationIntellectual propertyPatentsPharmaceutical industry2958244DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleMarc-AndréGagnon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (0915)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good morning gentlemen. Thank you for being with us today to share your expertise. After listening to you, and a number of other witnesses in the past few weeks, I get the sense that this is going to cost me a fortune, that my car is totally obsolete and I that I should just choose another technology. Let's hope we get there and it's for the better.My first questions are for Mr. Clark, of the Canada Post Corporation.You seem to have quite an extensive experimental lab. Why have you focused more on propane than on natural gas, given your experience and testing?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation2946782294678329467842946785MervTweedBrandon—SourisSteveClark//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0915)[Translation]Thank you.Mr. Clark, according to the documentation I was given, this technology would save about $3,000 in fuel a year. How many years would it take to offset the technological conversion of vehicles?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation29467892946790SteveClarkSteveClark//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0915)[Translation]Thank you.I have one last question for you, Mr. Clark. Then I will move on to the other witnesses.In setting up your new propane-powered fleet, did you have to overcome any specific challenges or resolve any issues as far as building refuelling infrastructure goes? Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation294679429467952946796SteveClarkSteveClark//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0915)[Translation]Thank you.I will now move on to the Roush Cleantech representative.I see that you are working with Ford. Can we expect to see you working with Ford in the very near future on a family car that uses your technology?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationPropaneRoads and road transportation294679929468002946801SteveClarkToddMouw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0920)[Translation]The Europeans seem to be ahead of us North Americans. Just one of the advantages is that consumers, themselves, can fill up their tanks. I am not sure whether they can do so at home, and therefore have their own fuelling stations.Where are we on this technology in North America?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationPropaneRoads and road transportation29468042946805ToddMouwToddMouw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0920)[Translation]I am not sure if this is a case of the chicken or the egg, but I do wonder whether it will take refuelling stations or greater consumer demand, or both at the same time, before this market can expand. I can't really see how fuelling infrastructure could develop without any consumer demand, and vice versa.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationPropaneRoads and road transportation2946809ToddMouwToddMouw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (0920)[English]Again, again, I know. First of all, Mr. Mouw, I noticed that in 2011 you won Green Fleet's Sustainable All-Star award. What is it?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation29468162946817RobertAubinTrois-RivièresToddMouw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]So you're a good promoter.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation2946819ToddMouwToddMouw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]I noticed that. Mr. Stewart, or Mr. Mouw, why do the insurance companies have such problems with the safety issue with propane?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationPropaneRoads and road transportationSafety29468212946822ToddMouwToddMouw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]The insurance companies and the government are too slow. They don't understand. They have a cultural problem regarding safety.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation2946826CameronStewartCameronStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]But there were incidents in the past.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation2946828CameronStewartCameronStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]Was it just a manipulation issue?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation2946830CameronStewartCameronStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]The spit becomes the blow. That's the issue.First, I don't have any problem with propane or natural gas. I think it's local fuels. We had people from Montreal, from the transit organization. First of all, in Quebec or in Manitoba, you have more electricity, so when we talk about alternative technology, that's how we should use it. One of the issues regarding propane is the climate and the issue of maintenance inside. It's not just that it costs less. Because of our climate, if you want to have all that maintenance infrastructure for the fleet, it's costly. It has another impact there.Do you think what they were saying was accurate? This is for both of you guys. I'm going to Mr. Clark next. Don't worry. He's on my list.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationPropaneRoads and road transportation2946832294683329468342946835CameronStewartToddMouw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]I think the three of you can answer this.[Translation]I am going to switch to French, because I quite like my translator friends and I want to create employment.If indeed there is a problem around education or culture—that is what you are saying to some extent—and since that also involves the rules and regulations, should Transport Canada, specifically, not have some sort of oversight body for the private and public sectors? That way, the regulations and safety rules applicable to propane would be clear. I believe there is a similar body in the U.S. Isn't that a possible solution in Canada?Mr. Clark, financial incentives are well and good. Everyone knows it always comes down to that, but the government's job is also to create conditions that are conducive to safety. And to do that, an oversight mechanism is needed. Would that be something that appeals to you? Would the private sector support a recommendation like that?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationPropaneRoads and road transportation2946839294684029468412946842ToddMouwSteveClark//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, NDP): (0955)[Translation]My comments are mostly for Mr. Stewart.Your sixth recommendation says that we should “allow alternative-fuelled vehicles with lower greenhouse gas emissions, to operate in high-occupancy vehicle lanes”. I find that to be a very creative solution; it's the first time I've heard such an idea. That is a smart recommendation, but how would we identify those vehicles?From everything I gather so far, you cannot identify these vehicles simply by looking at them. Which ones are the most environmentally friendly and generate less greenhouse gas? Do we need to ask our officers on the road to memorize every make or model that could emit less greenhouse gas? I have a hard time seeing how we could implement that solution. I would like to hear your suggestions. I think it is a great idea, but I have trouble picturing the actual implementation.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation294698629469872946988MervTweedBrandon—SourisCameronStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1000)[Translation]Very well. It may be necessary to do some work on the decal. It might be easy to copy, I don't know.Your seventh recommendation says that we should “make funding available for the training of conversion centres and installation personnel.” What do you mean exactly? What do you want the funding for? Infrastructure? Teachers? How much money would you need for these centres?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation29469912946992CameronStewartCameronStewart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1000)[Translation]I have one last question about underground stations. Mr. Mouw could also respond to this.Exactly how many accidents have there been in recent years, whatever they may be? You said that technologies have been developed to improve the system and that there is less risk. I want to know if there have actually been any accidents. And if so, what happened? Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationPropaneRoads and road transportationSafety29469962946997CameronStewartToddMouw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1000)[Translation]One hundred percent?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationRoads and road transportation2947000ToddMouwToddMouw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (0920)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I want to thank you all for coming this morning. I believe this will be a very interesting conversation.Mr. Gold, you cite a number of examples of open collaboration on intellectual property management in your written presentation, which I read. You mentioned the Consortium for Research and Innovation in Aerospace in Quebec, CRIAQ. Since our study concerns intellectual property that would encourage innovation, could you tell us more about that kind of model?InnovationIntellectual propertyPatent law2947185DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleRichardGold//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (0915)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good morning to the witnesses. We have been discussing alternative technologies for a few months and I am realizing that, regarding buses, diesel is disappearing and that increasingly we only have two choices left. The choice is between using electricity and natural gas, but the future seems to lie with electricity.Representatives from the Société de transport de Montréal explained to us that there is a plan for 2025 and that the future of this is being discussed.Mr. Baracat, is one of the problems that there is a lack of harmonization in the agreement between Canada and Europe? Things could progress much faster if we had that harmonization of standards, especially in terms of motors. Does this act as an obstacle to electrification?Automotive industryBusesInnovationSetting of standardsVice-Chair2936301293630229363032936304MervTweedBrandon—SourisJean-PierreBaracat//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]You don't want to sell your diesel buses here.Automotive industryBusesInnovationVice-Chair2936306Jean-PierreBaracatJean-PierreBaracat//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]What I haven't managed to understand since the beginning, is that [English]you spoke about VHS and Beta; now it's Blu-ray, by the way. I don't understand why the hell we can't manage those batteries. We go to space, but we have a problem with a charging device. What's wrong? Why? Is there a lack of funding for R and D? No. We already invest in that through Industry Canada. You have the private sector, which is putting some money in—you have Magna; you have another company, I think in Boucherville. There is an issue with lithium, and all that.I don't understand. Why do we have problems with those batteries? Is it lobbyists?Automotive industryBatteriesBusesElectric vehiclesInnovationVice-Chair2936309293631029363112936312Jean-PierreBaracatChrisStoddart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]You work in engineering. Obviously, there is the reality of the Canadian climate. If we want it to be by induction, without really knowing how things can work.... Induction can be chosen or another way of doing things can be found. Power lines can be brought back and all the environmentalists will be against you because they don't look nice.What is the compromise? What must we do? Does the future lie with some hybrid version? Or do we choose the natural gas and electricity mix? Or will we keep diesel anyway, in urban or rural settings? Is that it, in the end? There is no one solution, it's—Automotive industryBusesInnovationVice-Chair29363172936318ChrisStoddartRenéAllen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[Translation]Our committee must make recommendations. You spoke of harmonization, for example with Europe, regarding diesel motors. That could allow you to put more money into research and development. I too find that it is ongoing because you are private companies.If you had one recommendation to make on regulations and another on the role of government in terms of this future, what would you say to the members of the committee, with an eye to their report, concerning replacement technologies?I would like to hear from Mr. Allen, Mr. Baracat and Mr. Stoddart.Automotive industryBusesInnovationVice-Chair293632229363232936324RenéAllenRenéAllen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (0945)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I will probably share my time with Mr. Sullivan.Thank you to the witnesses for being with us. We have been receiving guests for a number of weeks as we look into the technologies of the future. The thing that most impressed me this morning was said by Mr. Allen. In fact, bus rapid transit is something we can already use, but we probably don't do it enough. I was stunned to learn how much greenhouse gases can be reduced with the measures you propose.I come from a mid-sized city, Trois-Rivières, which has about 135,000 residents. It is big enough to have public transit, but it doesn't have the population density to have truly efficient public transit.In your opinion, should our contribution to decreasing greenhouse gases be from bus rapid transit technologies, or the purchase or the renewal of the fleet with hybrid buses?Automotive industryBus rapid transitBusesInnovation29364052936406293640729364082936409MervTweedBrandon—SourisRenéAllen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0945)[Translation]Thank you.My second question is for all of our guests.We talked a few times about the comparison between Beta, VHS and Blu-ray formats. Of the charging technologies currently on the market, is there one that is more advanced?With other contests in history, we already knew which would win. Even if we preferred the Beta format, we already knew that the VHS format would win out. Is there really a technology that, to date, stands out from the others?Automotive industryBusesInnovation2936413293641429364152936416RenéAllenRenéAllen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you for your presentation.Could you explain something to me? If we focus more on the performance than on the method, will we need to take certain collateral approaches into consideration as well? You spoke about noise. As an aside, I can make a distinction between seeing and hearing an airplane. For example, you might decide to go a certain way, so you can lower the ceiling so that it is more efficient and, in doing so, you will produce less greenhouse gas.How do you see that regulation being implemented? I imagine that factors other than just performance need to be taken into consideration. How do you see this, from a feasibility point of view or…[English]the doability of those regulations?Air traffic control and air traffic controllersInnovationVice-Chair29184122918413291841429184152918416MervTweedBrandon—SourisJohnCrichton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[Translation]I'm trying to understand what we can do to ensure that the regulation is made by Transport Canada.You told us that the installation of an automated weather observation system is expensive. How much does it cost? What would the cost be to the government? How do you see the division of the costs? I imagine that the government's contribution is limited.If we are focused on performance, do you think it would involve an investment over a number of years? Strictly from a budgetary standpoint, what are you asking of the government?Air traffic control and air traffic controllersInnovationVice-Chair291841829184192918420JohnCrichtonJohnCrichton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]The reality is different in the context of an Arctic policy. It's not just a matter of being able to have a certain performance and that it be accessible. You spoke about safety. With the issue of the Northwest Passage, the whole satellite approach will also have an impact, for example, to protect our sovereignty or protect us from drug trafficking. I imagine, in this context, when you propose the plan, other departments could be approached, not just Transport Canada. A policy could be created that affects several departments. It could also affect National Defence, I imagine.Air traffic control and air traffic controllersInnovationVice-Chair2918422JohnCrichtonJohnCrichton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]I have one last question about regulations. NAV CANADA is working with organizations from other countries. What is the status of regulations in other countries? When it comes to standardization, could it lead to greater effectiveness? Are our standards lower than European standards? In any event, your corporation is governed by ICAO. With respect to what you said about the installation, what are other countries doing?Air traffic control and air traffic controllersInnovationVice-Chair2918424JohnCrichtonJohnCrichton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (0950)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to thank you for being here this morning and for your presentation. However, I need to say that I had questions every 30 seconds or so, since I'm far from being an aeronautics expert.You started your presentation by saying that significant savings in fuel costs been made thanks to the appearance of these new technologies. Feel free to get me back on track if you see I'm straying. First you spoke about performance-based navigation. You didn't provide more details about the technology itself, and I would like to know if this is a technology that, among other things, makes it possible to change landings so that they happen in a continuous line, rather than by steps.Air traffic control and air traffic controllersInnovation291852729185282918529MervTweedBrandon—SourisJohnCrichton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0950)[Translation]Would this new airplane descent trajectory not be the main cause of the increased noise that the population is hearing? In the past, if the descent was done in steps, the lowest step, which was closest to residents, was probably done in a much shorter range than during a gradual descent. Is that right?Air traffic control and air traffic controllersInnovation2918531JohnCrichtonJohnCrichton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0950)[Translation]Thank you.I would like to continue to discuss this same technology. You mentioned that not all aircraft are equipped with tools that would enable them to use this technology. You also said that a critical number of aircraft was needed in order to be profitable, but you didn't mention at what point it would become profitable.Could you tell us how many aircraft are equipped with the tools needed and how many should be added to reach that economic viability?Air traffic control and air traffic controllersInnovation291853629185372918538JohnCrichtonJohnCrichton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0955)[Translation]Thank you.In my last remaining minute, I would like to talk about the automated weather observation systems.With these new stations, can all weather measurements be taken, on the ground and aloft? In the northern parts of the country, is this automated system secure, given the weather conditions?Air traffic control and air traffic controllersInnovationWeather offices291854229185432918544JohnCrichtonJohnCrichton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0915)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good morning, gentlemen. Thank you for your presentation. I hope this will encourage you to make a quick switch to these technologies of the future. However, I admit I initially thought, that's it, we will be adopting these electric vehicles very soon, but the more I listened to you, the more I saw the barriers to establishing a full fleet.If possible, I would like you to tell us about this regulatory flexibility you are seeking that would enable us to import technologies from countries that are clearly ahead of us. I am thinking of certain European countries, for example. Could you give us some examples of the barriers you are facing?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation291096629109672910968MervTweedBrandon—SourisSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0920)[Translation]Can you give me some concrete examples of the differences between those standards? We are not just talking about conversion. We are not wondering whether we are going to use a European plug or an American plug to recharge batteries.Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovationQuality control2910971SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0920)[Translation]Consequently, electric technology is not necessarily the problem.Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation2910973SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0920)[Translation]So we could make the technological switch, but we would have to find a bridge in the very design of the buses, which would at least make it possible to conduct pilot projects.Have there been any requests for a pilot project with buses that meet European standards?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovationQuality control29109752910976SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0920)[Translation]Has a request been made to the federal government to amend that rule, which would make it possible to introduce a pilot project?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation2910978SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0920)[Translation]Have you been given a reason or are you just denied?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation2910980SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0920)[Translation]Do you believe that this target of changing over 95% of the fleet is realistic? The objective is to reach 95% of transit trips in electric vehicles, if possible. However, the more I listen to you, the less I see how that can be achieved unless there is a substantial change in the rules that would allow us to move the file forward.Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation2910982SergeCarignanFrançoisChamberland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0925)[Translation]At what level of government are the obstacles preventing you from further developing this bus and tramway project?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation2910989FrançoisChamberlandFrançoisChamberland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[Translation]Thank you very much, gentlemen.This is important in two respects. First, we have talked a lot about natural gas since the start. Here we are showing that there is another alternative solution. The purpose of our work is to produce a range of recommendations. I would like to thank you for your presentation. Then there is the issue of recommendations. We are going to go directly to the heart of the matter.I am referring to what my colleague told you earlier about regulations. I understand that you are recommending, for example, if there is a free trade agreement between Canada and the European Union, that there be an intellectual property and regulatory factor that would permit greater vehicle traffic. Is that correct?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation291099529109962910997MervTweedBrandon—SourisSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[Translation]As for regulations, are we able to enter into bilateral agreements without having an extensive free trade agreement? Are there any countries in Europe with which we could work more? Can we talk about France or Germany? Could that be a possibility? It can take a lot of time to establish an agreement with the European Union. Do you think we could proceed in that way?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovationSetting of standards2910999SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[Translation]That is purely bureaucratic, a little like what the United States is doing with natural gas, in particular. Shouldn't we create a secretariat that would report to Transport Canada and that could rely solely on those regulations? Would that be a good idea?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation2911002SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[Translation]Do you have the IACO standards? For ground transportation, could this situation be an opportunity for an international treaty as well, since we are not far from it? We can think of the United Nations. Is that kind of thing conceivable? I imagine that is being talked about.Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovationSetting of standards2911004SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0930)[Translation]So to help you with electric vehicles, for example, it is appropriate to recommend that our committee give priority to the issue of equipment standards.Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation2911006SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0930)[Translation]That's good.Representatives of other municipalities have come to see us and have talked about natural gas. Quebec, as a society, has chosen electricity. However, there is natural gas. Have you done any studies on vehicles powered by natural gas? What is your opinion, particularly with regard to greenhouse gases? We are told this is the best invention since sliced bread.Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovationNatural gas29110082911009SergeCarignanFrançoisChamberland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0930)[Translation] Is there a technology for trolleybuses? There is obviously the wire syndrome. It is a matter not just of expanding the roads, but also of being stuck with the wires. Have you looked into the matter or checked to see whether there were other technologies, such as magnetic energy, for example, or something else? Do we really need wires? If there were a plate underneath the trolley, could that do?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovationTrolley buses2911013FrançoisChamberlandFrançoisChamberland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1010)[Translation]Thank you very much.Thank you for your presentations. That was very interesting.In fact, I wanted to continue on this same subject. I was interested too, but perhaps in a different way.In your assessment of greenhouse gas emissions, you also include transportation through pipelines. This is a whole; it is not just about the use of buses in the city. Have I understood correctly?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesGreenhouse gasesInnovationNatural gas2911153291115429111552911156MervTweedBrandon—SourisSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1015)[Translation]As you said so well, the noise, greenhouse gas and weather issues are very important and relevant for the City of Montreal. Your call for more test programs has been heard, at least on our side. I hope that can happen for you.You also talked about the ecolobus in Quebec City, which I am very much interested in. I come from the greater Quebec City area, so I have had a chance to try them a little. Are you at the STM cooperating directly with the people of the Réseau de transport de la capitale on your midibus project?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation29111622911163FrançoisChamberlandFrançoisChamberland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1015)[Translation]This is very interesting. It would definitely be interesting to look at that study.Are you considering using midibuses in Montreal in the same way as the ecolobuses are being used in Quebec City?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation29111662911167FrançoisChamberlandFrançoisChamberland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1025)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.In fact, before we let you go, there is one topic that we have said virtually nothing about and that I would like to hear you talk about for a few minutes. And that is your inductive recharging research project.I would like to know how that works. Unless I am mistaken, earlier you said that you have to stop for at least a few minutes above the plate. So it is not a plate that you install at red lights, where the buses pass and take advantage of that to recharge. What system is it?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation291119329111942911195MervTweedBrandon—SourisFrançoisChamberland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1025)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.First I want to thank you and to congratulate you. We should not give our thousands of listeners the impression that you misled people when you talked about federal government funding. I understand that public transit must remain eligible under the next program and that there should be a greater investment in research and development. That is what must be understood and that is what you said. Those who did not understand that may have been listening to something else during this time, or were playing with their machines rather than listening to you, but that is their problem.It would be important to mention and to understand that the purpose of all the regulations on standards and norms is to give you a broader range in this environment. The idea is thus to have the opportunity to get the necessary tools so that your plan for 2025 can be implemented.You talked about motors, but there is obviously the whole question of batteries. Am I to understand that, if the Canadian government invested more in research and development, that might speed matters up with regard to battery storage capacity? That would enable us to reduce battery size and weight in order to achieve your ends.Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation2911203291120429112052911206MervTweedBrandon—SourisSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1025)[Translation]Among the standardization problems—that is what we are talking about, in particular—there is also this whole notion of the transition from research and development findings to commercialization.In your recommendations, you talk about working on intellectual property. It is important to protect what we produce here, just as it is to ensure that we can reproduce what we transfer from elsewhere. In intellectual property, would that be one of the elements that could also help you in a potential agreement with Europe, for example?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation29112102911211SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1030)[Translation]Mr. Carignan, I am not asking you to be partisan because that is not your job. However, we talked a lot about Transport Canada's way of being and behaving within the machine. For example, we like to protect our standards from outside interests, and that is normal.Do you think we are ready to do some serious thinking? Lastly, should we come to the conclusion that there are no more borders and recommend that Transport Canada also play a role in its way of addressing this entire regulatory issue?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation29112142911215SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1030)[Translation]Do you believe that all the safety and regulatory measures are satisfactory, in the way you operate?You obviously come from a municipality. There is a constitutional reality, and we will not get into that. However, Transport Canada has a role to play in safety. Are you satisfied with the regulations, or are there things that we should improve or at the very least examine right now?Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation29112182911219SergeCarignanSergeCarignan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1035)[Translation]I see my colleague is very troubled this morning; that is the eighth time he has said so. I do not believe we should doubt the relevance of our witnesses' remarks. They clearly said that they were waiting for international ratification and that the work had been done scientifically at the École polytechnique de Montréal. Why not consult the people from that school? It is a university. They are serious people and they are not on strike.Bus servicesElectric vehiclesInnovation2911238MervTweedBrandon—SourisMervTweedBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0920)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good morning, distinguished guests. Thank you for joining us. You have surely broken records this morning in terms of the information you managed to provide in 10 minutes. It is very impressive. It brings many questions to mind. Unfortunately, our time is limited, so I will try to cover the three main issues I am especially interested in.My first question is probably for you, Mr. Egan. Two figures from the very beginning of your presentation have stuck with me. You think that we currently have a guaranteed 30-year supply in natural gas. We are talking about a 100-year potential supply, as you said immediately after, when it comes to natural gas sources. I assume that we may be talking about transforming biogas.I would like you to elaborate on your thoughts regarding this 30-year supply and the potential 100-year supply. Does that include, for instance, massive development of shale gas across Canada?InnovationNatural gasTransportation2886082288608328860842886085MervTweedBrandon—SourisTimothyEgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0920)[Translation]Is this 100-year perspective based on current consumption figures, or is there a growth assumption in terms of natural gas consumption related to that 100-year supply guarantee?InnovationNatural gasTransportation2886090TimothyEganTimothyEgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0925)[Translation]My next set of questions is directed more at Ms. Milner, since it's about vehicles that can be converted. I am especially interested in vehicles used by the average consumers I represent.A few years ago, I taught geography and was interested in all kinds of green vehicles. When the time came to buy a new vehicle for myself, I did not go green. That's because, in terms of the economy, not only were there no savings to be made, but buying that type of vehicle would not even be on par with buying a conventional vehicle. We are talking about conversion costs from $7,500 to $12,000. Does that allow me to choose the vehicle I want, or do I lose a lot of space by adding a tank in the conversion process? How many kilometres per year are required for this conversion to pay off?InnovationMotor vehiclesNatural gasTransportationValue for money28860972886098TimothyEganAliciaMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[Translation]Thank you very much.This is a very interesting issue because it is pragmatic. We feel that we may be at a crossroads of what has happened and what should happen, but we do have some perspective on it all. There are photos and examples available. That helps us better understand that something is becoming a reality. Unless I am mistaken, regardless of the government's assistance, that is where things stand.[English] It's getting there. We have it.[Translation]What you basically want is for the government to provide some more incentives in order to change the consumer culture, to make people understand that there are other ways to consume. From your perspective, natural gas is the solution of the future. It is not the only solution, but it should be one of the options. That is my understanding of your statements, Mr. Egan.[English]Madam Milner, Mr. Sanford, enjoy yourself. It's okay.Voices: Oh, oh!Hon. Denis Coderre: I gave you half an hour more now, since we don't have any motions, so let's talk.InnovationNatural gasTransportation2886106288610728861082886109288611028861112886112MervTweedBrandon—SourisAliciaMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0930)[Translation]Exactly. We don't need government investments in infrastructure. I do have some questions about that, as we also have a role to play in ensuring that municipalities get involved as well. In my opinion, we have a role to play in the existing infrastructure program.The government's primary role is to harmonize our standards with the international ones, especially in the north-south corridor. Another role of the government is to incite consumers to invest by providing them with another option when it comes to purchasing a car. Is that what you are recommending today?InnovationNatural gasTransportation28861172886118AliciaMilnerAliciaMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0930)[English]When we talk about the standards vis-à-vis Europe, you're asking to have kind of a normalization. How's our standard in Canada in comparison with the others? Do we have to lower our standards? Do they have higher standards? There's an issue of what we mean by a standard.Secondly, j'ai une question un peu néophyte, a question like back to the future.(0935)[Translation]Is waste conversion, whose goal is producing gas, part of the strategy going forward? We do not need to dig holes; we can convert waste. There is plenty of gas in Montreal. You will not have any trouble obtaining waste. Could recycling be part of a green approach? I remember the Miron quarry, which contained some biogas; it was appalling. Is that also part of the gas-related strategy?Biogas systemsHarmonization of standardsInnovationNatural gasTransportation2886125288612628861272886128TimothyEganAliciaMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, NDP): (0955)[Translation]Thank you.I would like to know whether companies or distributors are interested in selling natural gas vehicles directly, without a conversion being necessary.Owing to a lack of time, I would not be interested in buying a conventional vehicle and going through the conversion process. At first glance, I feel that's a waste of time in my life. I wanted to know if anyone was interested in selling those vehicles directly. I know they can be bought in the United States, but we must go through customs controls to bring them back to Canada. Once again, I think that is a waste of time. Mr. Sanford provided some recommendations for encouraging people to use natural gas vehicles, but I do not see anything about simplifying the process or encouraging distributors to sell natural gas vehicles. Do you know whether any of them are interested in doing that? How do you mean to encourage them? What approaches are you considering?InnovationNatural gasTransportation28862172886218288621928862202886221MervTweedBrandon—SourisAliciaMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (0955)[Translation]Could you tell me when those vehicles will be available to consumers?InnovationNatural gasTransportation2886227AliciaMilnerAliciaMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (0955)[Translation]Thank you very much.I will move on to Mr. Sanford.In your slide titled “How Can the Government of Canada Assist the Growth of Home Refuelling?”, you talk about the need for more visibility. With regard to that, you recommend “encouraging or mandating the use of alternative fuel vehicles in federal fleets”.The Directive on Fleet Management: Executive Vehicles, says the following under item 5.3.3: Executive vehicles must be:a. hybrid-electric, if available from the manufacturers;b.  factory-equipped for natural gas, propane, or E-85 ethanol fuel, if available from the manufacturers, where fueling infrastructure exists or is planned; orc. factory-equipped with a 4-cylinder conventional fuel engine [...]What do you want to change? Those characteristics are already being promoted. They are included in accepted vehicles. I don't see how more could be done. Do you want those characteristics to be mandatory? I don't see how your recommendation could be applied. You talk about encouraging or mandating the use of vehicles, but that is already being done.InnovationNatural gasTransportation288623028862312886232288623328862342886235AliciaMilnerTimSanford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1030)[Translation]Thank you.I have two quick questions in conclusion.First, I am looking at the pamphlet on home refuelling facilities, and refuelling seems to be especially fun, based on the faces of the lady and the gentleman. Actually, I think they may be two men; it's not clear, but it doesn't matter. After 25 years in education, I have already received a few pizzas, but that was not a very serious reprisal.Are there any safety measures for this appliance? I see that the fuelling hose is outside and could very well be cut during the night. A 12-hour fuelling period is fairly significant. Someone could inadvertently damage the appliance by backing up instead of going forward. It seems to me that there are some safety issues involved.Second, to wrap things up, have the major gas companies thought about providing clients with incentives in order to lower the cost of this conversion?Fuelling stationsInnovationNatural gasSafetyTransportation28863702886371288637228863732886374MervTweedBrandon—SourisTimSanford//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1030)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I must admit that I am increasingly becoming converted to this new approach. The advantage, both for consumers and decision-makers, is having a range of methods that help improve consumption and have a better environment. However, there are some downsides to this. I will throw you a bit of a curveball. If this approach is as successful as projected, the number of vehicles will necessarily increase. Once it becomes less expensive, people will refuel even more. So there will be more vehicles on the road.Do you project that this could lead to a rise in vehicle activity and traffic jam issues, at best? We are living in an increasingly urban world. No one needs to tell you that, nowadays, there is an ongoing procession not only of student protests, but also of orange cones. Will the increase in the number of vehicles not create another problem? That's a nice problem for you to have, since you sell cars anyway. But is it a problem you must consider in your discussions with your future allies, such as municipal federations?Ms. Milner, I see you would like to answer that. Both of you may go ahead.InnovationNatural gasTransportation2886383288638428863852886386MervTweedBrandon—SourisAliciaMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1035)[Translation]Of course, we have Gaz Métro in Quebec. There has been a cultural shift. In addition to the fact that our electrical network has been nationalized and that electric vehicles have become a trend, there is an increasing number of cultural changes taking place, especially when it comes to home consumption. We are basically headed toward your converter—when it comes to the home—new types of vehicles and cultural change.[English]Are we at the crossroads? Who is your worst enemy? Is it the people who want to stick to oil, or...? How is the lobby?InnovationNatural gasTransportation28863942886395TimothyEganTimothyEgan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (0950)[Translation]Thank you.Your research provided some really interesting information. Could you tell me if you are looking at other types of intellectual property? Patents and copyright are one thing, but intellectual property is often talked about as a kind of fence that is erected around an idea.The difficulty of obtaining patents for software has been mentioned. I wonder if, for innovative technologies like nanotechnology or biotechnology, you have considered another type of intellectual property, a system that would be a little more open.Aerospace industryInnovationIntellectual property2888404CatherineBeaudryCatherineBeaudry//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Burke. I am impressed with your approach.I am wondering how it is managing to happen faster in the United States than in Canada. It is as simple as that. What is the explanation for that? You have been polite with the government, you have had money to do research and development, and we will come back to that, but is there a culture problem? Is the reason that the oil lobby is stronger and more established than the natural gas lobby? Is it the fear of natural gas? We know that when natural gas came into homes, education did in fact have to be done. What explains the fact that it is happening slower in Canada than in the United States?Information disseminationInnovationNatural gasPublic transitRoads and road transportationUnited States of America28817282881729MervTweedBrandon—SourisJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]So we're getting there.Let's talk about R and D. I always have respect for a company that will invest its own money, which is living proof that you believe in your product. But there is a role, of course, for academic institutions or governments.What's up for the next five years? When you have that kind of engine and now it's working, you have to look at the standards for a better environment, and the gas emissions and all that. What's in your plan for the next five years? What kind of engine should we take a look at, a mix with an electric motor plus natural gas? I'm just curious about what kind of R and D you're doing right now, when you accomplish what's supposed to be done. You have the engine now and it's working.InnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation288173328817342881735JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English] How do you deal with intellectual property? You might have a situation in other countries, like China and all that.InnovationNatural gasPatentsRoads and road transportationWestport Innovations Inc.2881741JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]Our role is to get some recommendations, of course, for the future. We believe in alternative energies, but I think that through regulation incentives and intellectual property rulings, we maybe need to do better. So what should we do regarding the patent law work on intellectual property? Do you believe that we protect our products enough, and how should we manage with other countries, for example, the States and those in Europe?InnovationInternational cooperationNatural gasPatent lawRoads and road transportation28817442881745JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]So we should do better here.InnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation2881748JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]It's like when we put together Team Canada, or stuff like that.InnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation2881750JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]That should be the role of the Government of Canada. So what recommendations would you make? You spoke about intellectual property. Are you satisfied with the relationship vis-à-vis R and D? Do you think the private sector should take care of the infrastructure level?InnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation28817522881753JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (0955)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you for being here with us this morning, Mr. Burke. I would like to take advantage of your expertise for the few minutes I have.A little earlier, in your presentation, you said that your group is a leader in alternative fuels. You mentioned electricity, natural gas and hydrogen. The discussion has focused on natural gas, obviously.Could you enlighten me a little about hydrogen? Some people claim that hydrogen is really the energy of the future. My information is that you have even developed a technology that would make it possible for a motor to run on hydrogen.Is my information correct? If so, when would the hydrogen motor be ready? Could you give me an estimate? Are we talking about 10 years, 20 years?Hydrogen fuel cellInnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation28818752881876288187728818782881879MervTweedBrandon—SourisJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1000)[Translation]You have not answered my question about the timeline. Could you tell me whether natural gas technology is the necessary interim step between the oil combustion we currently have and the production of hydrogen vehicles?Hydrogen fuel cellInnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation2881885JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1000)[Translation]In a future with a fleet of natural gas vehicles for the average person, how long do you think our natural gas reserves will last? Are we talking about conventional source natural gas, or do we also have to extract shale gas?InnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation2881888JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud (Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, NDP): (1010)[English] Thank you very much. Thank you for your presentation.I do not have the opportunity to sit on this committee very often, so I find this very interesting, especially because in Quebec we are very interested in the question of natural gas—more because of the shale gas issue, but still, it's being discussed a lot in our province. I find it very interesting to have a new perspective on that issue.In your presentation you were telling us that most of your R and D activities, if not all, are done in the U.S. Is that right?InnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation2881936288193728819382881939MervTweedBrandon—SourisJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1010)[English]Okay. Great. What I found really interesting was what was mentioned about biogas, that renewable source. How much of the research being done in your facilities is oriented towards those renewable sources?Biogas systemsInnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation28819432881944JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1010)[English]Are there more costs involved in extracting the gas from more traditional sources or in going towards the biogas avenue?Biogas systemsCostsInnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation2881947JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1010)[English]What's your evaluation of the situation in Canada for biogas?InnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation2881950JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1015)[English] My colleague touched a bit on the shale gas issue. How big in the market do you think shale gas could become in the next few years with the state of the market right now?InnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation2881956MervTweedBrandon—SourisJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1015)[English]Okay. So there aren't more challenges for your industry to use any type of natural gas being extracted in many different ways...?InnovationNatural gasRoads and road transportation2881959JonathanBurkeJonathanBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1010)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to pick up on the Canadian government's investment in innovation, especially through federal R and D programs. They often give rise to innovations and ideas that sometimes fall under the intellectual property category.Do you think the current IP regime does enough to protect Canada's investments in Canadian companies, foreign companies or those bought by foreign interests? Does the intellectual property remain in Canadian hands so that we can benefit from it?We talked about Nortel earlier. We could also cite other examples where the Canadian government invested in companies that ended up growing and being sold, resulting in Canadian intellectual property moving outside the country. Perhaps Ms. Corbin could answer first. InnovationIntellectual property28815772881578DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleRuthCorbin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (0920)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I am trying to understand. This is the first time I'm seeing this.Air transportationInnovation28745162874517MervTweedBrandon—SourisDidierToussaint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]I just returned from Paris. That would take about two days.Air transportationInnovation2874519DidierToussaintDidierToussaint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]You mentioned Yellowknife. I'm a newbie when it comes to this and I'm just trying to understand. Sometimes there are crosswinds. Isn't it a reality of flying? What speed does it travel at and how do you get organized? I'm not closed to the idea, not at all. It's going to cost less, but it's going to take more time, which may have an impact on the transport costs. To sum up, there are two questions: the transport costs and the crosswinds.Air transportationClimate and weatherHybrid air vehiclesInnovation2874521DidierToussaintDidierToussaint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]How many prototypes have been built so far?Air transportationInnovation2874523DidierToussaintDidierToussaint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]You spoke about 50 knots. What does that relate to in terms of speed?Air transportationHybrid air vehiclesInnovation2874525DidierToussaintDidierToussaint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]The engine can transport fairly heavy loads, can't it? You compared it with what a C-17 can transport.Air transportationFreight transportationHybrid air vehiclesInnovation2874527DidierToussaintDidierToussaint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[Translation]Have you already met with Canadian government officials?Air transportationInnovation2874529DidierToussaintDidierToussaint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[Translation]It's a first step.Air transportationInnovation2874531DidierToussaintDidierToussaint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]What was the reaction? I wouldn't understand the reaction regarding the money but regarding the product itself?Air transportationHybrid air vehiclesInnovation2874535GarryVenmanGarryVenman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]But you understand the necessity of intellectual property? This is a transfer of technology. It's not just a matter of enjoy yourself.Air transportationInnovation2874538GarryVenmanGarryVenman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[Translation]Thank you.Mr. Tauvette, as the fuel director, you are sort of at the mercy of the aircraft you are going to buy. I think biofuel is an interesting option. We tried ethanol, but there were environmental obstacles. Your recommendation concerning the strategic framework is interesting. I think we should in fact find other options for jet fuel. It's important.What do you propose more specifically? For example, do you think that Transport Canada should first create a working group, appoint a deputy minister who would be responsible just for this issue in order to give recommendations, develop a program and, eventually, invest in research and development? We aren't just talking about the type of technology that we need to use; we also want to ensure we can invest and form a partnership with the government, with regulations. Is that how you see things?Air transportationBiofuelsInnovation287454028745412874542GarryVenmanGeoffreyTauvette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0930)[Translation]In the industry, everyone is going back and forth.Air transportationInnovation2874544GeoffreyTauvetteGeoffreyTauvette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, NDP): (1000)[Translation]Thank you very much.You said that Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States were interested in this. I'm wondering about the hangars because the groups we had here on Tuesday also told us that that was a limitation and a challenge. But, you're telling us that the hangar would have to be 200 metres long, 80 metres wide and 50 metres tall. You are asking us for help with that.But there was a hangar in Berlin, Germany, that was much larger: it was 360 metres long, 210 metres wide and 107 metres tall. But it went bankrupt less than 10 years ago. What didn't work there? Why would it work in Canada? Is every country suddenly going to come and invest? Do you think it would potentially create jobs, while it went bankrupt in another country less than 10 years ago?Air transportationAircraft hangarsHybrid air vehiclesInnovation287467328746742874675MervTweedBrandon—SourisGarryVenman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1000)[Translation]Do you have any studies proving that this market exists? Do you have any studies establishing that there is a demand for a certain number of airships and that certain countries are going to use them? Can you tell me if other countries are currently using airships to transport goods?Air transportationInnovation2874677GarryVenmanGarryVenman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1005)[Translation]You told us that the United Kingdom might be interested in having the hangar, but if there is so much demand, why is no other country jumping at the opportunity? If it's an extraordinary demand, if it's so miraculous and if it will create jobs everywhere, why don't any other countries want to invest? Why do you need to lobby to tell us that we should invest in this project?Air transportationInnovation2874680DidierToussaintDidierToussaint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1005)[Translation]I'll come back to what our chair said earlier. Do you think the airships could possibly have a military use?Air transportationHybrid air vehiclesInnovationMilitary aircraft2874684DidierToussaintDidierToussaint//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, NDP): (1010)[Translation]Good morning. Thank you for answering our questions.The budget will soon be adopted, and the Government of Canada will vote on funding that will enable big businesses to promote the safe use of natural gas in our homes and to advertise to say that it is a very clean source of energy. So we can say that nothing has been lost from the start. Everything is possible with our taxes, and that money will not be going back to taxpayers. Just to reassure you.We are talking about research and development. You work in pure research and development. Bombardier wouldn't have its current infrastructure if our various governments had not, at one point, invested and approved loans that were later paid back and that enabled the company to develop. We would almost believe we were in Star Trek. We're talking about prototypes that still need to be developed, and that's no small feat.I'm a little bit concerned about the various ranges of maintenance and other services at the Jean Lesage Airport. I have difficulty imagining this mode of transportation, which is larger than the airport itself, landing where we live. But what I really like about your product is that it can go anywhere. It can transport dozens of houses to a given location, in order to develop a region. Frankly, the big oil companies and diamond and gold mining companies will need to put their infrastructures in place quickly. Infrastructure has often been mentioned as one of the problems with getting established. My question is along those lines. When it comes to the transport of liquids, could they be adapted to replace pipelines and transport natural gas from Alberta to western Canada, for example?Air transportationInnovation28747302874731287473228747332874734MervTweedBrandon—SourisBrianBower//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1015)[Translation]There was a lot of development in this type of transport in World War I and World War II. It used hydrogen and was very dangerous. We all remember the zeppelins that caught fire in New York. Well, we don't remember it, but we've seen it. It's big, it's huge. Of course, we need to make people safe because an accident would have enormous consequences. But what you can do is go and find all the cargo with a boat.The engine isn't small, so where there is space, could you really land it anywhere, on water or on various kinds of terrain?Air transportationHybrid air vehiclesInnovation28747362874737BrianBowerBrianBower//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1015)[Translation]You might have already mentioned this, but I'd like to know how high the airship can go.Air transportationInnovation2874739BrianBowerBrianBower//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1015)[Translation]No, it's 10 days, I think.Air transportationInnovation2874741BrianBowerBrianBower//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1020)[Translation]How high can they fly?Air transportationInnovation2874743BrianBowerBrianBower//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis (Saint-Maurice—Champlain, Lib.): (0925)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Are there any comparative studies on the costs of the various modes of transportation used to service northern Canada—airships, airplanes, trucks, roads, trains?AirshipsInnovationNorthern Canada28684742868475MervTweedBrandon—SourisBarryPrentice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (0925)[Translation]Indeed, regarding jobs and other means of transportation, could the residents of Canada’s north participate more actively in the introduction of airships? Would there be greater participation by northern peoples in the use of airships as opposed to other means of transportation? Is that the plan?AirshipsInnovationNorthern Canada2868480BarryPrenticeBarryPrentice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (0930)[Translation]You will be using this opportunity to discuss possible economic spinoffs for these communities.AirshipsInnovationNorthern Canada2868484Guy S.GinterGuy S.Ginter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (0930)[Translation]Will Canada, through the development of northern communities, be able to assert its sovereignty in the Arctic?AirshipsInnovationNorthern CanadaSovereignty2868487Guy S.GinterGuy S.Ginter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (0930)[Translation]What is the impact of means of transportation on the viability of northern communities?AirshipsInnovationNorthern Canada2868491BarryPrenticeBarryPrentice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (0950)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Welcome to our witnesses. I thank you for sharing your expertise with us. This morning I feel like I am participating in the writing of the script for the next episode of Back to the Future. I am not sure I understood correctly. I got the impression a while ago that we are talking about one unit only, one airship only. In your estimation, how large a fleet would it take to meet the needs of the entire Canadian north?AirshipsInnovationNorthern Canada286858328685842868585MervTweedBrandon—SourisBarryPrentice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0950)[Translation]Very well.There are none today, but you would like to see 150 to 200 airships. At what number would you reach the break-even point? In other words, how many airships would it take to recover the money spent, for example, on ice road construction and to provide those services instead with airships? What is the minimum required in order to recover those amounts? One or two airships are obviously not enough.AirshipsInnovationNorthern Canada286859228685932868594BarryPrenticeBarryPrentice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0955)[Translation]With this minimal fleet, in Quebec as well as in Manitoba, to service mining companies and bring in consumer products, would it be possible to implement in Canada's north, just as we do in the south, the concept of just-in-time delivery? We could then save on everything to do with storage, since there would be guaranteed regular deliveries.AirshipsFreight transportationInnovationNorthern Canada2868599BarryPrenticeBarryPrentice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, NDP): (1015)[Translation] I will share my time with my colleague Jack Harris.We talked a lot about roads and aircraft, but I would like you to discuss more specifically railways. There is a railway line all the way to Moose Creek. I would like you to tell us why, in your opinion, airships are a better option than the existing railroads.AirshipsInnovationNorthern CanadaRail transportation and railways28686942868695MervTweedBrandon—SourisBarryPrentice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1020)[Translation]Thank you.However, in the opinion of many, freight carriage by means of airships could be too costly, somewhat too slow and therefore a bit less profitable.You say that Transport Canada does not want to deal with this file, which is rather strange. Since airships have been in existence for 100 years and have never been very popular, I wonder how come they are being presented today, in 2012, as a miraculous solution. If they are so miraculous, why did they not raise any interest earlier?AirshipsInnovationNorthern Canada286870028687012868702BarryPrenticeBarryPrentice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1035)[Translation]I would like to know if you have had any discussions with either the Quebec government or private interests about this immense project that the Charest government is bringing forward, the Plan Nord, which could lead to a consortium of mining companies interested in investing in a project such as this.AirshipsInnovationNorthern Canada2868766MervTweedBrandon—SourisBarryPrentice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1040)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Prentice, you briefly raised an issue on which you didn't elaborate, the environment. What would be the advantages of airships over other modes of transport, such as trucks and airplanes, in terms of the environment?AirshipsEnvironmental protectionInnovationNorthern Canada28687722868773MervTweedBrandon—SourisBarryPrentice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (0950)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Welcome, Mr. Quick and Mr. Fortier. Thank you for sharing your incredibly valuable insight with us.My first question has more to do with the historical aspect. We are going to take advantage of your expertise. If the past is any indication, as they say, we will draw our own conclusions. I won't ask you to predict the future. Correct me if I am wrong, but you seemed to say, at the beginning of your presentation, that public sector contributions had been critical to technological advancement. Could you give us an approximate idea of what those contributions have been like over the past century, especially in the field of aviation? How much funding has come from the public sector versus the private sector? Is the split 50-50, 70-30?Aerospace industryAir transportationGovernment assistanceInnovationPrivate sectorScientific research and scientists2852716285271728527182852719MervTweedBrandon—SourisRénaldFortier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0955)[Translation]I appreciate that, but it really takes numbers.Aerospace industryAir transportationInnovation2852723RénaldFortierRénaldFortier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0955)[Translation]I want to stay on the topic of research, if you don't mind. Is it accurate to say that a private company will agree to invest heavily in applied research to develop greener airplanes, for example, even though the word “green” does not necessarily mean that they will actually be better for the environment?I also want to know about biofuels. The responsibility of doing the basic research falls more on the public sector's shoulders. Does the private sector conduct any basic research?Aerospace industryAir transportationInnovationPrivate sectorScientific research and scientists28527252852726RénaldFortierRénaldFortier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0955)[Translation]You piqued my curiosity when you were talking about biofuels. We know this technology can have a huge impact on agriculture and global supply, as compared with oil and synthetic fuels.Is progress being made in synthetic fuels?Aerospace industryAir transportationBiofuelsInnovation28527312852732RénaldFortierRénaldFortier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0955)[Translation]Where do synthetic fuels stand?Aerospace industryAir transportationInnovation2852737RénaldFortierMervTweedBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, NDP): (1005)[Translation]Thank you.Thank you for being here today.I am going to pick up on my colleagues' comments about jobs.As we saw a few weeks ago, in the case of Aveos or in the aerospace sector overall, job losses are a reality. A lot of jobs were cut, especially in my riding, where 2,800 workers lost their jobs. And we know the production is moving to Brazil.In Canada, there has been legislation in the past that protected our jobs. We feel the same should apply to these jobs. In any case, I want to hear your take on the use of legislation to protect workers and the government's withdrawal in this area. I am not sure whether you feel or your research shows that this type of protection should be maintained, strengthened or eliminated.Aerospace industryAir transportationInnovation28527712852772285277328527742852775MervTweedBrandon—SourisRénaldFortier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1005)[Translation]On a different note, the topic of education came up briefly a bit earlier, and I would say having a good education is critical in the industry. I want to know a bit about your commitment to the education of people, employees, historically speaking. How do you think the government should invest in education?Aerospace industryAir transportationEducation and trainingInnovation2852780RénaldFortierRénaldFortier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard, NDP): (1650)[English]Thank you very much.Thank you very much for the presentation. There's a saying, “Necessity is the mother of invention.” I'm wondering what incentives brought about this group.Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands284388228438832843884MarkWarawaLangleyJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1650)[English]So you are saying that it's mainly based on profitability and on developing technology, it's not really based on protecting the environment. It's mostly based on profitability--or what was the reason that brought about your group's formation?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands2843889JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1650)[English]What was the incentive for companies that are profit-based to do that? What was the incentive? Was it government regulations? Was it provincial regulations on the environment that forced you to do that, or was it just an initiative that was just brought up?I'm trying to find the timely fashion of this process. Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands28438912843892JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1655)[English]Okay, I have a two-part question. Who will fund the R and D, and who will benefit from the R and D, the technology that will be coming out of the R and D, as part of the funding. And then who would benefit from the R and D that will be done, eventually?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands2843896JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1655)[English]I would like to come back to the appointment of Mr. Wicklum. Do you find that there is kind of a...? There are two sides to a story. There's the private company that does its job at making profit and going with private goals, and then there's Environment Canada, which is a public service, and which is there to keep a check and balance.With all the people and all the experts that are there, and there are a lot of scientists—all kinds of scientists—isn't there a problem and a difficulty, then, of credibility when we take someone from Environment Canada on loan for a year, and then they return back to Environment Canada? We're sort of mixing things together. I would like your comment on that.Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands284390028439012843902JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette (Drummond, NDP): (1715)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today.I would like to further explore Ms. LeBlanc's question about your funding. You mentioned that it is companies who invest in research and development. Do you receive subsidies from provincial or federal governments?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationScientific research and scientistsTar sands284401528440162844017MarkWarawaLangleyJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1715)[Translation]Ms. Fairburn, do you receive any subsidies or tax relief from provincial or federal governments?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceGovernment assistanceInnovationTar sands2844021JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1715)[Translation]What percentage of your budget comes from provincial or federal governments' investment?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceGovernment assistanceInnovationTar sands2844023JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1720)[Translation]What would that percentage be?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceGovernment assistanceInnovationScientific research and scientistsTar sands2844025JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1720)[Translation]For that matter, did you meet with government people over the last few months about the tar sands file?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands2844029JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1720)[Translation]I am not talking about you. Has anyone in your team met with government officials about the tar sands?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands2844031JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1720)[Translation]Did Mr. Dan Wicklum meet with government officials since he started his job?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands2844033JudyFairburnMichelleRempelHon.Calgary Centre-North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1720)[Translation]Did you know that Mr. Dan Wicklum must observe a code of ethics as a public servant?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands2844046MarkWarawaLangleyJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1720)[Translation]Did you know that Mr. Dan Wicklum was subject to a code of ethics as a public servant?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands2844048JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1720)[Translation]Thank you very much.The vice-president for policy and sustainability at TransAlta believes it would be a good idea to set a price for carbon. In your opinion, should we set a price for carbon?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands28440542844055MarkWarawaLangleyJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1720)[Translation]No, in fact, as you stated earlier, the economy and the environment must work together, but in order to support the economy and the environment, we need policies. Do some environmental groups support you?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands2844057JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1720)[Translation]Do some environmental groups support you?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands2844059JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1720)[Translation]Which environmental groups or universities support you?Canada's Oil Sands Innovation AllianceInnovationTar sands2844061JudyFairburnJudyFairburn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (0915)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you, gentlemen.My first question goes to Mr. Pascoe. I am going to play the devil's advocate.If we go by what a number of people say, natural gas is the best thing since sliced bread. If it gets set up, they say, everything will be fantastic. So why don't we have it already? Is it because of some vested interests? Is the petroleum lobby that strong, for example?Being able to use natural gas would be fantastic. But would that mean that a number of garages and facilities would be lost? It would have a big economic impact. People would also be forced to change their way of doing things. In that sense, there could be losers from an economic standpoint. On the one hand, individuals might perhaps come out ahead, but on the other, and more widely based, a large number of interests are at play. Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasVice-Chair28404912840492284049328404942840495MervTweedBrandon—SourisDavidPascoe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]I agree with that, but the issue is that there's a lot of interest at play here.So okay, we want to make it happen. What we need is probably a public-private partnership, of course. So we have the industry on one side, but we have the issue of the capital cost, as Mr. Davies mentioned. This is for both of you. What should the role of the federal government be? Should it be based on policy? Should there be a new infrastructure program? What kind of partnership do you feel the federal government should get involved in? And then I'll ask Mr. Davies.Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasVice-Chair284050028405012840502DavidPascoeDavidPascoe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]I would like to talk a bit about our “smart regulation” and the issue between Canada and the United States, because of course when we're talking about procurement, we're talking about a commercial relationship. Are there any issues between Canada and the States related to the parts or to the procurement as a whole that we should improve?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasVice-Chair2840510RussellDaviesRussellDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]Do you believe that if we are among the best in the world, if we have that residential fuelling, it will have an impact on the infrastructure itself in that we'll have more cars? If we have more cars, are we going to have a problem in cities, because now you can have your own little fuel section? Do you believe it will have an impact on public transport or that people will have an opportunity to buy more cars instead, and then you might have another kind of problem even if it's supposed to be clean energy? That's another good question.Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasVice-Chair28405142840515DavidPascoeDavidPascoe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (0945)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Welcome, sir. Thank you for your very enlightening expertise.First of all, I would like to make some comments to Mr. Davies, and please do not think they are an attack. Far from it.In your recommendations, you say that “support is needed for attempts to develop a green fleet approach“. Our first problem—and this is not a criticism of you—is that, unfortunately, that concept is poorly defined. Everyone is claiming to be green these days. The technology of natural gas buses is less polluting than diesel, but it can't really be said to be green. As an approach to public transit, it is less polluting. Could we agree on that? BusesEnergy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gas2840612284061328406142840615MervTweedBrandon—SourisRussellDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0945)[Translation]As I listen to you, I get the impression that we are being presented with this technology as a required transition, a faster transition, that will eventually lead us to the use of energy that would in fact be totally green, like the electric car or public transit that runs on electricity.My first question goes to Mr. Pascoe.In your experience, could you tell me when the first completely electric vehicle, with a range of 500 km, will be available at a price the average consumer can afford, that is, the same as a current vehicle?Electric vehiclesEnergy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovation284061728406182840619RussellDaviesDavidPascoe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0945)[Translation]I have to interrupt you because I have very little time and I have a lot of questions. Could you give us an approximate number? Do we have to wait 5, 10, 15 or 20 years before electric vehicles are standard?Electric vehiclesEnergy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovation2840622DavidPascoeDavidPascoe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0945)[Translation]The American government, for example, is investing $25 billion in an electric transportation fund. Do you think that the Canadian government is doing enough? Should we be putting our efforts into that area, or should we have a transition period where we move to natural gas? Electric vehiclesEnergy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovation2840624DavidPascoeDavidPascoe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (0945)[Translation]Thank you.My next question goes to both Mr. Davies and Mr. Pascoe.Mr. Davies, in your presentation, you said that we have natural gas reserves for about 100 to 140 years. Are those conventional gas reserves or do they also include shale gas?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gas284062728406282840629DavidPascoeRussellDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1005)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.You mentioned the cost and said that the consumer will be paying less. Could you tell me specifically how much 40 litres of natural gas will cost when I fill up my car?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gas28406962840697MervTweedBrandon—SourisDavidPascoe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1010)[Translation]What are the odds that those prices can be guaranteed to be the same in 20 years? We know that gasoline was cheaper when there was more of it. Natural gas is likely cheaper because there is more of it now. In 20 years, what will happen to the prices?CostsEnergy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gas2840700DavidPascoeDavidPascoe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1010)[Translation]Mr. Davies, in making your choice, you compared natural gas vehicles with other kinds of vehicles. You put a lot of stock in the fact that they are cheaper. Besides the price, however, what other advantages did you find that led you to the choice of natural gas buses?Like my colleague, I see that they are a little greener than diesel, but surely not as green as we can get. What were the other advantages?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gas28407032840704DavidPascoeRussellDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1010)[Translation]The electric bus would have been less noisy as well. Aside from the money saved, why did you decide to focus your study on natural gas rather than on electric buses? Did other factors come into play? Electric buses do not make a lot of noise.BusesElectric vehiclesEnergy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gas2840706RussellDaviesRussellDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1010)[Translation]I have one last question for you.Among the obstacles you faced, you said that there are perceived problems with safety and with the operation of the motor in cold weather. What are you going to do to address those perceived problems with the public? What is your action plan to convince people that everything really is fine from the standpoint of safety?BusesEnergy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasSafety28407112840712RussellDaviesRussellDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1015)[Translation]You can compare the situation with the perceptions people have of nuclear power plants. I can show people nuclear plants that do not blow up, but that still doesn't mean they won't be afraid.What specifically are you going to do to make people understand that it is safe to have a natural gas tank in their homes?I am not sure that showing people a bus that does not blow up will help them feel any safer.Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasSafety284071428407152840716RussellDaviesRussellDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1030)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Pascoe, in Quebec, people really want work to be done on the electric car. Has Magna International started talks with Hydro-Québec? Are discussions going on? If so, what stage are they at?Electric vehiclesEnergy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationVice-Chair28407992840800MervTweedBrandon—SourisDavidPascoe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1030)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I can often hear chat-chat over on that side. When I ask questions, I expect a modicum of respect so that I can hear the answer.[English]Sorry about that, but....Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationVice-Chair28408022840803DavidPascoeDavidPascoe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35422ChristianParadisHon.Christian-ParadisMégantic—L'ÉrableConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ParadisChristian_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Christian Paradis: (1530)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Thank you, colleagues, for having me here today.(1535)[Translation]This is a pleasure.I would first like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to the members of the committee today on the main estimates for the Department of Industry.As you said, Mr. Chair, I am here with Richard Dicerni, Deputy Minister, Simon Kennedy, Senior Associate Deputy Minister, and Kelly Gillis, the department's Chief Financial Officer.[English]Industry Canada is part of a group of 10 agencies and councils, as well as the department, that report through me and two ministers of state.As presented in the 2012-13 main estimates, the department anticipates a total of $1.3 billion in spending for the year, and the portfolio organizations together anticipate a total of just over $3.5 billion.Our goal is to help make Canadian industry more productive and competitive by advancing three strategies: one, supporting business; two, fostering the knowledge-based economy; and three, advancing the marketplace.[Translation]Overall, we have made significant progress towards reaching our goals. As government members, we have taken action to support businesses and to create jobs across the country.During the global recession, we have acted decisively to counter the downturn with a targeted action plan.More Canadians are working now than before the downturn. Actually, over 610,000 net jobs have been created since July 2009. That is a testament to Canadians' efforts.Over the past 10 years, the Canadian economy has seen stronger growth than any other G7 economy. And we continue to find ways to give Canadian businesses a competitive edge.We have cut import tariffs on manufacturing equipment. We have reduced federal corporate taxes to 15%; we have the lowest tax rate on new business investments in the G7, which is also less than half the rate of our American neighbours.We have extended the 50% capital cost allowance rate through the straight-line method for machinery and equipment.We have also extended work-sharing agreements to help workers. We continue to support research and efforts to market innovation. Our net debt to GDP ratio is still the lowest in the G7.[English]Our accomplishments have been recognized around the world. Forbes magazine ranks Canada as the best place on the planet for businesses to grow and create jobs, the Economist Intelligence Unit has rated Canada the number one place to do business in the G-7 for the next three years, and both the International Monetary Fund and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development forecast that our economy will be among the strongest in the G-7 this year and next.This is all within the context of a low-tax plan that leaves more money in the hands of Canadians.[Translation]Today's meeting comes at an appropriate time. Over the past few weeks, we have had the opportunity to set in motion some key initiatives that are going to help us maximize our opportunities.As you know, Canada is one of the few nations with the whole range of design and manufacturing capacities in the aerospace industry. With almost 80,000 high-level jobs, several of which are in small and medium-sized businesses, this industry has a significant impact on Canada.The 2011 budget committed our government to reviewing programs and policies related to the aerospace and space industries. That is why we created a committee—which I announced last month in Montreal—to undertake this study. The committee will be chaired by the Hon. David Emerson, who will share with us his vast experience and expertise in the field.This study will cover key features, such as trends in the global aerospace industry and their impact on the Canadian industry; key opportunities and challenges in this sector; the sector's strengths and weaknesses; and, finally, long-term objectives for a sustainable domestic industry.Mr. Emerson's study will also deal with the issues related to the space industry. To that end, I have recently announced that Canada intends to renew its participation in the International Space Station. Our commitment will contribute to maintaining Canada's leadership role in space technologies. I am particularly proud that Chris Hatfield will be the first Canadian commander of the International Space Station during its mission, which is scheduled to start in December of this year.(1540)[English] I'll turn now to the automotive sector. It is the largest manufacturing sector in Canada, representing 12% of our manufacturing output and 20% of manufactured exports. In 2011, the auto industry directly employed more than 109,000 Canadians and created another 332,000 jobs indirectly. That's why we have invested in the automobile sector, including in clean vehicle technologies. These investments are a catalyst for further private sector activity and innovation, and they foster Canadian competitiveness.Beyond the sectors I've mentioned, we know that our competitiveness ultimately depends on supporting business innovation throughout the entire economy. That is why support for science and technology has been a priority for our government since 2006. To this end, Canada has invested heavily in science and technology. Federal science and technology expenditures reached $11.7 billion in 2011. We have supported new world-class policies and programs and are expanding private sector participation in science and tech. We are building Canada's knowledge base and are successfully branding Canada as a destination of choice for talented, highly qualified S and T workers and students. [Translation]But, as you know, we could get better innovation results in our country. Private businesses in particular are lagging in innovation. That is the case despite our excellent record in research and development by higher-education institutions and despite our strong support for research and development by businesses.Our government recognized this problem and it received a report this past fall from a panel of experts tasked with reviewing federal support in research and development. Over the past few months, we have gone over the report and, under the leadership of my colleague Minister of State Goodyear, we will soon take action to fix the problems identified in the report so as to strengthen Canada's global competitiveness in a broad range of sectors. [English] At the heart of the digital economy are information and communications technologies. Technology adoption boosts productivity, accelerates innovation, and generates new products and business models. To this end our government has launched the digital technology adoption pilot program to promote adoption by small businesses using community colleges as partners.This complements recent initiatives by the BDC, which has set aside $200 million for loans to entrepreneurs to adopt ICTs and has created an online resource centre that offers technology tools for small businesses. We are also boosting our support to increase university capacity in key digital skills disciplines. I'm also looking forward to this committee's report on e-commerce in Canada.Speaking of the digital economy, I'd note the swift progress of the copyright committee chaired by our NDP colleague from Sudbury, Mr. Thibeault. I know that Mr. Regan, Mr. Lake, Mr. Braid and Mr. McColeman worked long hours on that committee as well. Bill C-11 attempts to achieve a balance between the rights of consumers and creators. While all of us know finding that balance has been challenging, this legislation is about strengthening Canada's ability to compete in the global digital economy. It is important for this bill to be passed as quickly as possible. Turning to telecommunications, just yesterday I was pleased to announce significant decisions for our wireless sector. We understand that Canadian families work hard for their money, and they want their government to make decisions that will help them keep more of it. The measures I outlined yesterday will ensure the timely availability of world-class wireless services at low prices for Canadian families, including those in rural areas.These measures include lifting foreign investment restrictions for telecom companies with less than a 10% share of the market; applying caps in the upcoming 700 megahertz spectrum auctions; applying measures to ensure that rural Canadians have access to the same advanced services; slowing tower proliferation by improving and extending roaming and tower-sharing policies; and reserving a portion of the 700 megahertz spectrum for public safety users such as police and firefighters.[Translation]I am proud of the balance that has been reached with those decisions. As Canadians are increasingly relying on wireless technology, it is important that we make good decisions to provide prompt service with more choice and lower prices.In addition to the legislative changes I mentioned earlier, we are moving towards strengthening other pieces of legislation and policies related to the economic framework. We have made a commitment to ensure that the review process under the Investment Canada Act continues to promote investment while providing a net benefit for Canadians.Meanwhile, we are continuing to review the act, especially in terms of transparency, to make sure that it is balanced. We have to be clear that the purpose of the Investment Canada Act is to promote foreign investment in Canada. Our government strongly believes that free trade and the ability to attract investments to our country play a fundamental role, not only in our economic recovery, but also in our country's long-term success. As a result, when we bring forward proposals for change, the changes will be about promoting investment that will benefit Canada. In addition to the work accomplished on the Investment Canada Act, we have also been successful in introducing Bill C-14, Improving Trade Within Canada Act.(1545)[English]We are also acting on a number of other fronts, such as moving forward with priority trade negotiations, including with the EU and India. We are cutting red tape in order to boost productivity and reduce the compliance burden on businesses, especially the small and medium-sized businesses that drive our communities, whether they are located in large cities like Edmonton—whose Chamber of Commerce I was pleased to meet with in the fall—or rural centres like my own town of Thetford Mines. [Translation]In conclusion, Mr. Chair, I believe that those initiatives will contribute to strengthening the competitiveness of the Canadian economy and to support job creation and economic prosperity, which is at the heart of a strong Canada.Thank you for your time. I will be pleased to answer any questions the members of the committee may have.Thank you.Advanced wireless servicesAerospace industryAuctionsAutomotive industryBureaucracyBusiness Development Bank of CanadaC-11, An Act to amend the Copyright ActC-14, An Act to amend the Agreement on Internal Trade Implementation Act and the Crown Liability and Proceedings ActCompetitionConsumer priceCopyright and copyright lawDepartment of IndustryDigital economyEntrepreneurship and entrepreneursForeign investments in CanadaFrequency allocationInformation technologyInnovationInvestment Canada ActMain estimates 2012-2013Rural communitiesScience and technologyScientific research and scientistsSmall and medium-sized enterprisesTax relief2773456277345727734582773459DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35422ChristianParadisHon.Christian-ParadisMégantic—L'ÉrableConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ParadisChristian_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Christian Paradis: (1605)[English]I cannot speak for my colleague, but I will say what I know. As I said in my notes, it's concerning to see the level of pick-up from the private sector after all the investment by our government. SR and ED is one of the most generous regimes we have had, for example.The idea is to find out how we can better leverage funds from the private sector. The Jenkins panel was mandated to look into this. Basically they came up with a report and addressed several issues.With regard to the SR and ED program itself, they addressed the issue of procurement and the role the government could play in procurement. I have to mention that in budget 2010, a pilot program of $140 million was announced, through which the government could consider some new technologies from what I would call the “post-prototype until the commercialization” era. This is a good way to help. We are the greatest purchaser, so there was a pilot program there, and there was good success. There was a good report recently about that.After that, the panel also addressed the research area in general. It made some conclusions about the NRC and other granting councils. Finally, the Jenkins panel addressed the issue of access to capital for the high-growth firms.These are basically the areas that were touched on. Of course, I also presume that the aerospace review panel will consult this report to make sure we fully consider what has been studied in the past. I would say Jenkins is a more general umbrella, but after that it will be useful for a narrower analysis, such as that done by the aerospace industry. We are studying it. Of course, we will respond to conclusions.Aerospace industryDepartment of IndustryInnovationInnovation Canada: A Call to ActionMain estimates 2012-2013Scientific research and scientists277355927735602773561277356227735632773564PeterBraidKitchener—WaterlooPeterBraidKitchener—Waterloo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35422ChristianParadisHon.Christian-ParadisMégantic—L'ÉrableConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ParadisChristian_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Christian Paradis: (1610)[English]That's the future. If we want to keep our leadership, we have to innovate. We have to make sure we can facilitate, we can help.On innovation, we have to consider that it comes from the private sector. The role we have to play is to support the private sector to go down that road. Innovation is saleable. The more you are at the forefront, the more you can be a winner on the market. It's a no-brainer. You sit down with the private sector. That's always the way to go.There are some parts of the economy in which we have been leaders but we can no longer be leaders. When you speak about volume and about wanting to compete against Asia, we are at a disadvantage, but if we innovate, then we can create specific products and find niche markets. This is why we want to continue on this. This is why, for example, we had the automotive innovation fund. We had great outcomes with the program, and we have to continue.It's the same thing with the aerospace sector. We have 80,000 jobs here, a full chain of manufacturing, but we cannot sit on our hands and say that we are the best in the world. We have to continue. That's why, while the sector is going well, we said to Mr. Emerson: “Look, we are there, we are the fifth-biggest player, but where do we want to be in the future? Where do we want to be in 20 years or 30 years?” Innovation is a major part of this.Aerospace industryAutomotive Innovation FundDepartment of IndustryInnovationMain estimates 2012-20132773566277356727735682773569PeterBraidKitchener—WaterlooDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35422ChristianParadisHon.Christian-ParadisMégantic—L'ÉrableConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ParadisChristian_CPC.jpgInterventionHon. Christian Paradis: (1630)[English]On small businesses, as you know, we have been the lowest regime since January 1. It's 15% for small businesses. As well, we have our capital cost allowance, the red tape reduction, and access to capital. I pointed out that BDC.... I hear exactly the same thing. A lot of companies said, "Look, if there was nothing there, we would be in real trouble. Now we can get through the economic slowdown. We are recovering and now we can hope to hire people." We also lowered the GST. We have been talking sometimes about the price of gas going up and down; the GST can soften the impact. When you add it all together, this is good. I think this is good way to go. I hear a lot about this in my riding too. People are saying, "Let us do business instead of coming up with cumbersome regulation. This is not what we want." Frankly, as Minister of Industry, this is exactly the direction I have tried to make. When we talk about the manufacturing sector, we know there is a challenge there, but in the automotive sector, for example, with the automotive innovation fund we can help our manufacturers to develop new products and find some new niche markets. These are good targeted investments that will help to develop innovation. What is saleable first is innovation. If you want to be first, innovate, and then you'll be able to sell first. This is exactly what we should continue to do. This is why we do it in the aerospace sector also. This is also why we took that decision yesterday with the rules of the spectrum auction: to make sure we can have the best technology for all Canadians, wherever they are. Automotive industryAutomotive Innovation FundDepartment of IndustryInnovationMain estimates 2012-2013Small and medium-sized enterprisesTax relief27736702773671CherylGallantRenfrew—Nipissing—PembrokeCherylGallantRenfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1640)[Translation]The minister, who has unfortunately left, mentioned innovation. He also said that innovation came from the private sector. We know that the Conference Board of Canada ranked Canada 14th among OECD countries when it comes to innovation.Is the current direction to abandon basic or exploratory research so we can put all our eggs in one basket and focus the research on helping industry?Department of IndustryInnovationMain estimates 2012-2013Private sectorScientific research and scientists27736982773699RichardDicerniRichardDicerni//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil—Soulanges, NDP)): (0845)[Translation]Welcome to the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. This is our 28th meeting. On the agenda today, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), is the study of innovative transportation technologies. Today, we are hearing from Don Moore, Executive Director of the Canadian Transportation Equipment Association.[English] I'd like to welcome you, Mr. Moore. Without further ado, please make your presentation.Automotive industryInnovationResearch and researchersTrucks277168627716872771688DonMoore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (0910)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you very much for joining us, Mr. Moore.I will keep my comments somewhat in the same vein, as you talked a lot about the regulations today. You say that you are not necessarily a fan of the regulations. What needs to be changed? Is it only a matter of approach? Does it have to do with the fact that a distinction should be made between what you are going through and what is happening in the U.S.? We have often talked about smart regulations, red tape cutting, and so on.Given that your role also has to do with security, do you find the regulatory requirements overly stringent or not enough? Would you like to do your own thing? Where is the problem? I am just trying to understand your association's approach when it comes to the current regulatory requirements.Automotive industryInnovationRegulationResearch and researchersTrucks2771733277173427717352771736JamieNichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesDonMoore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0910)[English] We need regulation for safety. We need more efficient equipment. So in your case we're talking about the weight, we're talking about the aerodynamics, we're talking about new technology that should be used. One of your main concerns is testing, so maybe we should have a better regroupment of stakeholders so that everybody focuses and helps each other.The first question is this. What should be the role of the Government of Canada? Our role here is to put up some recommendations about how we apply the new technology. There are two things in that: the technology itself, and what we should use, like natural gas, electric, whatever.Secondly, how can we make it doable, which is the regulation aspect? So (a) what should be the role of the government, in your mind, and (b) what should be the process regarding that? And what kind of new technology would you favour?Automotive industryInnovationResearch and researchersTrucks277174027717412771742DonMooreDonMoore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[English]This is the last question. We spoke a lot about harmonization. We're talking about our relationship with the Americans. There are issues there regarding the equipment. We have to diversify. There's the situation in Europe that maybe we should find a way to buy there too. What's the status regarding your own organization? Do you believe that harmonization sometimes sounds more like protectionism and we should maybe have a better way to make some deals with others, like the Europeans?Automotive industryHarmonization of standardsInnovationRegulationResearch and researchersTrucks2771745DonMooreDonMoore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP): (0940)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Moore, we are happy to have you with us today.I have a few questions for you. The first question is about something you said. It has come up a few times.Regarding innovation, especially in terms of the environment—be it greenhouse gas emissions, vehicle weight, fuel use, hybrid vehicles, or whatever—you said that your members would innovate if there was a demand for innovation.I have a question that may seem a bit strange. Has a client ever told you to make them something that could be more expensive or would make them less competitive, but would be good for the planet?Automotive industryInnovationResearch and researchersTrucks27718542771855277185627718572771858JamieNichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesDonMoore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (0940)[Translation]You also said—when you spoke for the second time—that the regulations can sometimes be useful because they level the playing field for all the stakeholders. In other words, if everyone has the same obligations, there is no disadvantage for your clients or your members, since everyone has to meet the same standards. Is that correct?Automotive industryInnovationResearch and researchersTrucks2771861DonMooreDonMoore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (0940)[Translation]So regulations whose objective is the respect of the environment or the greater good could be seen as acceptable by your association and your members.Automotive industryInnovationResearch and researchersTrucks2771863DonMooreDonMoore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (0940)[Translation]That is great. Thank you very much.I have to pull Mr. Poilievre away from his reading. It has been said here a few times that the government was often the problem in terms of innovation, and that the private industry was the only innovator. I think that your answers prove otherwise. Someone also claimed that he had received a list of innovations made in the transportation industry and that almost nothing was being co-ordinated by the government.Do you think the fact that practically nothing is co-ordinated by the government accounts in part for the lagging innovation of companies in Canada, which is among the weakest countries, among the laughingstocks of the industrialized world? Should we not play a leadership role in order to boost innovation in companies, especially transportation companies, like the ones you represent? Automotive industryInnovationResearch and researchersTrucks2771865277186627718672771868DonMooreDonMoore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Jamie Nicholls): (0945)[Translation]I would like to remind Mr. Boulerice of something. Earlier, you made a comment about a committee member who was reading. Committee members often do work related to committee business. Without going so far as to say that we are not partisan, I would like to remind you that, in this committee, we are nevertheless comfortable enough to work together. So I just want to remind you that committee members often do their work during committee meetings.Automotive industryInnovationResearch and researchersTrucks2771873DonMoorePierrePoilievreNepean—Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (0945)[Translation]I will continue talking about our real topic of interest, which you expanded on.You talked about the risk taken by companies that want to promote certain innovations and products. Recently, an expert panel published a report titled “Innovation Canada: A Call to Action”. One of the recommendations was to set up a venture capital fund administered by the Business Development Bank of Canada in order to help companies at all stages of the innovation process, from basic research to marketing. There is a small assistance program for innovation marketing. It is almost meaningless: a few tens of millions of dollars. That is not enough to meet the needs of the whole Canadian industry.Do you think that a venture capital fund administered by the Business Development Bank of Canada would be a good idea? Automotive industryInnovationResearch and researchersTrucks2771880277188127718822771883JamieNichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesDonMoore//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (0915)[Translation]Thank you very much, gentlemen.Mr. Robert, obviously, I stand behind your rallying cry. We are indeed facing certain realities. Both you and Mr. Bradley spoke to that complexity, and I realize this isn't just a Transport Canada issue. It even involves the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade and Environment Canada.Do we need to define a new trucking policy in Canada? From everything we have learned from you and Mr. Bradley today, it is clear that the complex and inconsistent regulatory regime is hurting the industry and can have a direct impact on environmental issues.I am especially disappointed that we cannot diversify the technology as far as Europe is concerned. Is there a Canadian or Quebec technology that would allow us to be competitive? If not, why wouldn't the government sign an agreement with Europe to give us access to that technology?Freight transportationInnovationTrucking and truckersTrucks2766584276658527665862766587MervTweedBrandon—SourisClaudeRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[Translation]Mr. Robert, I don't have a lot of time. But if I understand correctly, you are saying that the Canadian government must revisit its agreements and allow us to do business with Europe, not only to protect the environment but also to be competitive given the other technologies that exist.EuropeFreight transportationInnovationTrucking and truckersTrucks2766595ClaudeRobertClaudeRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]Mr. Bradley, when we're talking about regulation, when we're talking about diversifying our market, what does your organization believe is...? What's wrong? Is it because of a lobby? Is it because we're too close to the Americans? They are our friends, but it's good to see if there's a better market somewhere else. From what I understand, we're talking about an interprovincial issue, we're talking about a Canada-United States issue, and we're talking about an international trade issue. How do you manage that?Freight transportationInnovationTrucking and truckersTrucks27665992766600ClaudeRobertDavidBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]I have a simple question. Do we believe, then, that harmonization will lower our standards?Freight transportationInnovationTrucking and truckersTrucks2766610DavidBradleyDavidBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (0950)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I want to thank our witnesses for their presentations.Mr. Bradley, you want the government to provide financial assistance to stimulate truck investment. I did a quick calculation. If we want to put an electronic on-board recorder, an electronic stability control system and a GHG compliant trailer on every truck, it would cost $10,000 a piece.You said you wanted a grant, but how much? What exactly do you mean? What sort of government grant would enable you to properly equip a truck, incorporating the three technologies I just mentioned?Freight transportationGovernment assistanceInnovationTrucking and truckersTrucks2766708276670927667102766711MervTweedBrandon—SourisDavidBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1000)[Translation]Thank you for being here. I found your presentations very helpful.Mr. Robert, your remarks were very heartfelt. I am quite impressed. My father was a truck driver most of his life. He always wanted the same thing as you, a better future for his sons.Can you tell us a bit about Groupe Robert's partnership with Gaz Métro and the Quebec government?I believe the goal of the project is to establish the first liquefied natural gas-fuelled freight transportation corridor. What did you do to get a project of this nature off the ground?Freight transportationInnovationNatural gasProvince of QuebecTrucking and truckersTrucks2766755276675627667572766758MervTweedBrandon—SourisClaudeRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1025)[English]Thank you.We've been talking about the future today, and we often forget our most important resource for the future, which is water. In finding solutions for a sustainable future, I hope we're not putting the cart before the horse. I know that there are challenges with natural gas extraction, in certain instances in terms of hydraulic fracturing sometimes jeopardizing water resources. There are challenges with all fuels and with the use of water in the oil sands, so I'm wondering—this is an open question to everyone—about alternative fuels. What about biodiesel? If we look at biodiesel, perhaps it could act as a stimulant to our agricultural sector here, and we could have domestic production of our own fuel in Canada. Is there a future for biodiesels in the trucking sector in any way? Has it been an alternative that's been explored?BiofuelsFreight transportationInnovationTrucking and truckersTrucks276683127668322766833MervTweedBrandon—SourisDavidBradley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1030)[English]My second follow-up question would be about waste gasification, gases made from waste products. Is that along the same line as biodiesel? Is there any future for that? I know there's a company in Houston, InEnTec, that's doing it, and NRCan in Edmonton makes fuels from waste products as well.BiofuelsFreight transportationInnovationTrucking and truckersTrucks2766837DavidBradleyClaudeRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1030)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.[English]What strikes me today is that it's kind of common sense versus interest. I truly don't understand why we haven’t settled those kinds of issues. It's a matter of political will, I guess, and just connecting the dots. I hope we will all work together and find some recommendations, specifically on the regulation aspect. I just don't understand.It's also about diversifying. Why can't we go to Europe? It's like we're depending on only one side all the time.[Translation]Mr. Robert, I want to commend you for your passion. I can see why you have been in the business for over 40 years. It must be contagious.Now, let's move on to the nuts and bolts.[English]I'll have the question same for Mr. Bradley.[Translation]Have you met with the minister?We make recommendations, and we will make more. The people at the department can take them into consideration, but sometimes that doesn't mean much. Do you get the sense that the department and minister are hearing you? Is anything happening there?We are natural gas suppliers. I have bad memories of diesel, especially when I think of the Shell refinery that closed in Montreal. It's been converted into a gas storage centre, because they want to move European diesel through Portland. It was not done in the public interest, but in the company's.What is your relationship with Transport Canada like? How can we help you, both with the minister and the department, so we can push ahead with what you have told us this morning?Mr. Robert can respond quickly, followed by Mr. Bradley.Freight transportationInnovationTrucking and truckersTrucks27668432766844276684527668462766847276684827668492766850276685127668522766853MervTweedBrandon—SourisClaudeRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1035)[Translation]It's a milk run.Freight transportationInnovationTrucking and truckersTrucks2766855ClaudeRobertClaudeRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1035)[Translation]Tell me about the outcome. Tell me about Transport Canada and the minister.Freight transportationInnovationTrucking and truckersTrucks2766857ClaudeRobertClaudeRobert//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (0910)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I get the feeling that our witnesses today want a group hug.[English]It sounds like a group hug now. Maybe I just didn't have my coffee yet.[Translation]Mr. Dennis, I am trying to understand. So you are saying that the private sector partners are ready to make their contribution. You are actually telling us to use you. Is that correct? The message that you are sending is that you are ready to be part of the solution, but that you are waiting for the government to take action. Is that the message you are sending today?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationPrivate sectorResearch and researchersTransportation2755083275508427550852755086MervTweedBrandon—SourisDavidDennis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0910)[Translation]In other words, you would like recommendations in order to be able to find solutions. So it is a question of structure not of something specifically related to innovation. You would like a type of PPP or[English]a one-stop shop where we can all discuss together and have one place to discuss and decide, right?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation27550902755091DavidDennisDavidDennis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0910)[English]You might have your group hug afterward. The Liberal party believes in that. I think we're all part of the solution because you're creating the cars and all that. Let's be more specific, then. Which one should we focus on? We're at the table; everybody is here now, and we can all talk together. Let's go to some specifics. You spoke about ethanol. I'm not sure it's working that much on an environmental basis. I'm from Quebec, so electricity might be in order. Natural gas is an option; it's great. Where should we go first? Should we just have a bunch of options? You're from the private sector, so you know that time is money too. You have to be focused. Where should we focus?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755093275509427550952755096DavidDennisDavidDennis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[English]That's true.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755103Larry A.RobertsonLarry A.Robertson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[English]I'll cut you off there, if I may.Mr. Frise, you're the R and D guy. You have some government money. You have some researchers and all that.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation27551072755108Larry A.RobertsonPeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[English]How do you work with the private sector, for example? Are you just providing some research? I noticed that you have something like 200 researchers and 38 projects right now. How do you work? It's just R and D and then you work with the private sector, too, or are you just an academic?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationPrivate sectorResearch and researchersTransportation2755110PeterFrisePeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[English]You'd be surprised that in the polytechnics there are some electric cars, though, so you should rephrase that. Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755114PeterFrisePeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[English]You mean through the public-private partnerships.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755118PeterFrisePeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[English]That's what it counts for.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755120PeterFrisePeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (0930)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for your presentations. They were quite informative.I have a specific technology question for Mr. Frise. Has AUTO21 done any research into textile use for the skin of automobiles, such as polyurethane-coated spandex, as in the GINA project that BMW did in 2008? What are some of the challenges of using textiles for lightweighting in urban environments?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755206275520727552082755209MervTweedBrandon—SourisPeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0935)[English]Okay, but is it an avenue that in the future looks worthwhile—using textiles and composite materials, as you mentioned?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755214PeterFrisePeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0935)[English]I've heard a lot of questions from my colleagues about how you've brought university researchers and private sector partners together. Can you speak to us a bit about the process of bringing university researchers together with these private sector innovators and maybe elaborate on an example that was a particular success?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755217PeterFrisePeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0955)[English]This is a question for Enterprise. The website says you have about 8,000 hybrid vehicles, which I believe is the largest in the industry. You mentioned 60,000 vehicles, so that would make just over 10% of your fleet hybrid. That sounds to me like a pretty good achievement.Can you tell us what sort of internal decision-making got you to that place?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation275530127553022755303MervTweedBrandon—SourisRyanTodd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0955)[English]Okay.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755305RyanToddRyanTodd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1000)[English]Other than costs, are there any other obstacles, regulatory issues, or challenges that would affect the greening of the fleet?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755310RyanToddRyanTodd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1000)[English]Is there anything the federal government can do to assist companies like yours in improving environmental stewardship? Do you have any ideas?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755313RyanToddRyanTodd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1010)[English]My next question is for Mr. Dudley. Your company has a strong record helping governments, regulatory bodies, and intergovernmental agencies to design and implement climate change policies. We often talk about the health of Canada's current economy, but we see through international organizations such as the World Economic Forum—perhaps not as shining an example of an international organization as Forbes magazine—that Canada's competitiveness is falling year over year. If all our international partners all of a sudden start to move toward greener choices for their economy and Canada doesn't make those changes, we could be left in the lurch. Can you give us a sense of what types of recommendations often give the biggest impact for the least effort in the transportation sector? Is there any apparent low-hanging fruit that usually jumps to mind when dealing with government bodies? Further, what are some of the main challenges for government organizations in implementing climate change policies? Finally, can you talk to us about the North American climate change regulatory jurisdictional review for CN in 2009, and what kind of recommendations you made for it?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation275535727553582755359MervTweedBrandon—SourisBruceDudley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1015)[English]My second question is more generally to everyone. We notice that the concentration on production of SUVs in the 1990s was one of the major focuses of the Big Three in North America. I've read articles saying that most of the challenges involving safety on the road were owing to SUVs simply not handling as well as smaller cars in certain situations. Crashes are more prevalent because these lumbering box-frame vehicles end up getting into more accidents with smaller vehicles. I'm somewhat remiss, because I'm hearing a lot of innovation related to road safety, which I fully support. I fully support trying to get toward that zero crash thing, but is it not maybe the fact that we were producing these big lumbering vehicles that is now driving innovation toward safety? Is it because of not making the right choices in production and not looking to fuel-sustainable vehicles in the long term? Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation275536827553692755370BruceDudleyMervTweedBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[Translation]Your answer scares me, Mr. Robertson.[English]I have a Jeep Cherokee and I'm proud of it, but that's another issue.Some hon. members: Oh, oh!Hon. Denis Coderre: The situation is education also, but do we believe that at the end of the day, if we're raising the issues of weight, aerodynamics, intelligence such as the electronics, and a better education, these will have an impact on the overall outcome? The kind of vehicle is not necessarily the problem; it's the way you build it and the way you drive it.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755378275537927553802755381MervTweedBrandon—SourisPeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[English]My last question is for Dr. Frise and Mr. Dennis.We have talked about regulations. At the end of the day, if you want to have a partnership, you need better standards, you need a way of working, and you need those regulations. When I was President of the Privy Council, we put forward smart regulation, and now it's getting there. It's not a partisan issue; I think we have to cut the red tape. You have government money and you want to work with us, so how do you manage concretely, and with whom are you working? Do you have relationships with Transport Canada, with Industry Canada? You have all the issues of intellectual property too. What kind of recommendations and best practices would you propose regarding those regulations?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755386275538727553882755389PeterFrisePeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[English]Maybe you should also include accountability, because it's about the consumers, the citizens. It's taxpayers' money.Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755394PeterFrisePeterFrise//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[English]It's a new relationship. How do you get involved through that accountability process, then?Fuel efficient vehiclesInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2755396PeterFriseDavidDennis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (0910)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for your very informative briefing. It is highly appreciated. I lived in the Republic of Turkey for five years, so things like LNG refuelling stations and propane taxis are quite a common site on the landscape, given that the price of gas in Turkey is about three times the price of what it is here. However, we've seen that for natural gas refuelling stations in Canada, the numbers actually fell from 134 in 1997 to 72 in 2010. What's the main reason for this decline over time, and what are some of the problems with maintaining and expanding a refuelling network across Canada?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasNatural gas supplyTransportation2746136274613727461382746139MervTweedBrandon—SourisSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0915)[English]Thank you.My second question is more to Mr. Shaw. You spoke a lot about LNG. I'm wondering about LNG versus CNG. I've heard there are efficiency problems with LNG at high altitudes, which would make transport corridors using LNG difficult. With, say, the Edmonton-Vancouver corridor, there would be difficulties with the high altitudes there.Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasTransportation27461482746149JimFacetteSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0915)[English]Thank you.As you know, many Canadian provinces have an abundance of hydroelectricity—notably Quebec, where I'm from, but British Columbia and Manitoba also have significant hydroelectric production facilities. Measuring emissions and energy production in the burning of these fuels is a complicated science, but can you give us a sense of how natural gas and propane vehicles compare with electric fleets powered by hydro? How do you make your case to jurisdictions in these regions of the country?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation274615327461542746155SamShawJimFacette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (0915)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My first question is one that is being asked by a layman. (0920)[English]What is the relationship between propane and natural gas? Are you working together? Are you enemies? Do you want to hug together? It seems that you should all be part of it. I don't understand why you're not on the road map. Do you want to talk about it, Jim?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation27461632746164274616527461662746167MervTweedBrandon—SourisJimFacette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]It's a complementary kind of approach.A voice: It is, very much.Hon. Denis Coderre: Do you believe, Mr. Shaw, that we need also to take a look at the regulations? What would you propose?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gas supplyRegulationTransportation274617327461742746175SamShawSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]Would you suggest that this should be a priority in our recommendations?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation2746179SamShawSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]This is a major issue.Jim, you spoke a lot about this being a good product that we should use more. I'd like you to expand a little on what you are doing in R and D.Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation274618127461822746183SamShawJimFacette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0920)[English]Mr. Shaw, I was interested in your statement on infrastructure, because basically I believe in options. Of course hydroelectricity is an asset for us, and we should use it, but it's not one size fits all. In certain areas, if we have an alternative, it's great, but it's all about infrastructure, isn't it? Did I hear you well when you said that we would be able to have refuelling on our own, from our house or from...? Would you expand on that?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gas supplyTransportation27461882746189JimFacetteSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]Is it one day the barbecue, the second day the car? How do you manage that?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation2746191SamShawSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]For example, if we already have Gaz Métro in Quebec in our home, then all we need is to add a device, and instead of plugging our car into the electricity, we just plug it in. Is that how it works?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation2746194SamShawSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0925)[English]Is it a matter of figures, then? We're all talking about private-public partnership here. How much would it cost to have that kind of infrastructure? We spoke about the regulatory approach; that's an issue with CSA and all that. How would you perceive it, if you had to go for the next budget? How would you see it?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation27461962746197SamShawSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0945)[English]Currently, natural gas and propane consumers are exempt from the federal excise tax on fuel, which is 10¢ per litre. We know that an exemption from a tax is comparable to a subsidy for the industry, and treating various fuels differently can sometimes lead to distortions in the market or artificial demand for one product over another. Can you give us an indication of how demand for natural gas and propane use in the transportation sector is in any way dependent on this current tax exemption?Energy conservationExcise taxesFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasTransportation2746298OliviaChowTrinity—SpadinaSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1005)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I have questions about the different pricing systems used in jurisdictions around the world. From what I know, there are three types of contract pricing. One is market index. Another, such as what is used in Japan, is based on oil prices or the basket of imported crude. The third is the one used in Europe, which is based on energy carrier index contracts and is linked to the Brent price, the HFO, the LFO, the GO, the coal price, and the electricity price.From my understanding, in Canada we use a market-indexed pricing system. Could you explain how, in Canada, the pricing system works? The reasoning behind this question is to understand which pricing system is more advantageous to the consumer and offers the lowest price to the consumer.CostsEnergy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasPropaneTransportation274639727463982746399MervTweedBrandon—SourisJimFacette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1010)[English]Just to clarify, Mr. Shaw, does the market pricing offer the lowest price to the consumer?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation2746409SamShawSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1010)[English]Thank you.In your opinion, how would the private sector react to a fuel tax policy that charged rates to consumers based on the level of pollution created by each fuel, with the more polluting fuels paying higher fuel taxes?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation27464112746412SamShawSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1010)[English]No.Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation2746414SamShawSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1010)[English]Based on particulates in nitrogen emissions—Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation2746416SamShawSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1010)[English]Yes.Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation2746418SamShawSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1030)[English]It will all end in Montreal anyway, so it's okay. We'll talk there. What's your relationship with the department? How do you manage? You spoke about the road map and you want to be part of it. From the natural gas perspective as seen through your company, how do you manage? How do you work with them? As well, there are a lot of issues regarding R and D, so what's your relationship with the conseil de recherches? It's not just, “Take our resource.” How do you work with them? As a final question, what's your relationship with the provinces and municipalities? How do you manage that?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationTransportation2746498274649927465002746501MervTweedBrandon—SourisSamShaw//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0935)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for coming today. I'm sorry you had to put up with our family squabble this morning.From my past life as an urban planning student, I find the information you've presented this morning fascinating. I'm always excited about the possibilities of sensor technology combined with crowdsourcing in changing the way we do land use planning and the way that we move around our urban and rural areas. There's great potential for this.My question is more specifically about the government's procurement of Canadian innovation or the idea of homegrown innovation. The expert panel, the Jenkins panel, was mentioned. It led a review of federal support for R and D and submitted this report to the government in October 2011. In its recommendations, it stated that the federal government spends billions of dollars every year in procurement of technologies and facilities, but that Canada ranks low internationally when it comes to using that purchasing power to encourage Canadian innovation. It seems to me to be common sense that the government should encourage homegrown innovation as part of its own procurement process, so I'm wondering if you can give us a sense of how Canadian innovation is or isn't a main criterion in the procurement of new technologies and facilities in your departments.Government contractsInnovationTransportation27338332733834273383527338362733837MervTweedBrandon—SourisMitchDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0940)[English]Thank you for that answer.Could you give us maybe recommendations for how the government could do a better job of encouraging Canadian innovation? For example, should there be a Canadian content requirement in procurement? Should each department have its own review of how best to encourage Canadian innovation? Should there be a minister for innovation, as was recommended by the government's own expert panel, the Jenkins panel, in October?Government contractsInnovationMade in Canada procurementTransportation27338452733846MitchDaviesMitchDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0945)[English]I'd like you to expand on page 24 of your innovative transportation technologies document. The title is “ITS Contributions to Public Policy—Societal Benefits”. The third bullet point mentions transportation for livable, accessible communities. Could you expand upon how ITS helps things like active transit and land use planning and how it allows communities to choose alternative modes of transportation? Information technologyInnovationSocial economyTransportation2733851MitchDaviesKristineBurr//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0945)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you very much for joining us. I have to tell you—and I am talking through the chair—that I am very pleased and happy to have you here. I hope that we will be able to invite you again. Actually, once we meet with the other witnesses from the private sector and universities, it will be important for you to come back. Your responsibilities are not limited to research and development. You talked at great length about regulations, smart regulations in particular. What you are doing and what you are telling us is really important.Thank you for the document. It is extremely well done. I am somewhat familiar with the government machinery and I am able to recognize your professionalism and transparency in dealing with this issue.I have two questions: one is for the representatives from the Department of Industry and the other is for the representatives from the Department of Transport. In terms of the Department of Industry, I am very interested in the government's procurement policy. You talked about aerospace in particular and one major aspect is the commercialization of innovation, which will actually affect your average Joe and Josephine. It could be in terms of defence purchases, for example.Since we no longer produce aircraft and we take care of maintenance, we have to think about the intellectual property of software or equipment. If we want to reclaim it later to be able to play a role in the industry, it is important to look at that. That is why I have always said that intellectual property is key to innovation.I would like to talk about ITAR, those American regulations that pertain to Canada when it comes to military equipment. If we buy a plane from Lockheed Martin, for example, and if we want to take care of the maintenance for that equipment, we have to consider civilian licenses. Industry Canada will have a say in that.Do you think ITAR or the arms regulations can create problems for us? One of the major problems Bell Helicopter has experienced is that the American government has a list of 25 countries, and people from those 25 countries cannot be near military equipment in Canada. We can often lose the contract because of that.Mr. Peets could perhaps answer this question. Just in terms of intellectual property, should we reassess the situation and have an agreement, although there are already ad hoc negotiations with the U.S. government and the Secretary of State? Should we not have a more specific agreement? Taking over the equipment is sometimes seen as an obstacle to productivity.InnovationTransportation273385727338582733859273386027338612733862273386327338642733865MervTweedBrandon—SourisMitchDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0950)[Translation]Mr. Chair, the intellectual property issue is very important. We have to make sure that the recommendations for the study on innovation allow us to deal with the issue through Industry Canada. All too often, it is perceived as protectionism, which has a direct impact on our own sovereignty. Actually, we are too often subject to regulations that come from somewhere else, especially Washington. I feel that our role in terms of innovation and intellectual property is to find an approach that will enable us to remove any contentious issues. My question is along those lines, and if you have answers, please forward them to me through the chair so that we can all benefit from them.Ms. Burr, I would imagine that infrastructure is often the poor cousin of transportation. You have talked about an integrated freight system. What I really like about your approach is that you are putting the finger on the problem in order to fix it. Overwhelmingly, we do not devote sufficient resources to innovation. There is a small problem with research and development. Do you think we are doing enough in terms of infrastructure? We are often stuck in a failing system because we have not really taken care of it and because we have only made large one-time investments. That also has implications for transport. We are talking about basic infrastructure. In terms of research and development, do you think infrastructure should be dealt with on an equal footing as part of an innovative technology strategy?InnovationResearch and researchersTransportationTransportation infrastructure27338712733872MitchDaviesKristineBurr//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1035)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Davies, you talked a lot about airport noise in your presentation. You also mentioned that you were involved in reducing the noise. Since the Montréal-Trudeau international airport is in my riding, I receive many complaints from my constituents about airport noise. Could you tell me what your role is in developing this technology and what steps you can take to further reduce the noise in the future?AircraftAirportsInnovationNoise and noise pollutionTransportation273400027340012734002MervTweedBrandon—SourisMitchDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1035)[Translation]Are there currently many regulations on airport noise? We know that Canadian airports are supposed to be closed between 11 p.m. and 7 a.m. so as to reduce the noise at night, which has a significant effect on people's health. But airports have the right to allow planes to take off earlier or to land later. So we are sort of letting the guideline to the discretion of airport authorities.Should we establish regulations to reduce the engine noise at night? If not, is there research currently being done on this issue? For the time being, the noise level in my constituency is still too high. Could you tell me what do you plan to do to solve this problem so that I can tell my constituents that the Government of Canada cares about their health and is working on the issue? AircraftAirportsInnovationNoise and noise pollutionRegulationTransportation27340052734006MitchDaviesKristineBurr//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre (Bourassa, Lib.): (0910)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Munro, I have a practical question for you.My honest opinion is that the public investment figures are very low. You will probably like my question. If it is true that the transportation sector is the largest consumer of energy and that reality will make us change technology, is spending only 20% on fundamental research and 38% on applied research justified by the fact that you have to deal with the current budgets and that more investments are needed?The reality is that[English]it's an ongoing issue, and you will truly need more resources to make sure of the “doability” of what we'll provide afterward.As legislators—and we will make some recommendations, so I'm very pragmatic here—we are in a kind of pre-budget, and I believe we should invest more in R and D. Do you truly have what it needs right now? What more do you need to be even more efficient? I ask because this is the future. Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2726001272600227260032726004272600527260062726007MervTweedBrandon—SourisGeoffMunro//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[English]One of the issues here is that if we want to be that efficient, the federal government has to be the leader in that private-public pact. If we're not there, we cannot just relate it to the private sector, because then you will have in your road map everything regarding regulation.... If you want to be a leader, you need to put up the resources too, and I frankly believe it's not enough.If you have some figures, I think it would be appropriate for us to receive them, because there will be opportunities later. We'll see what we can do. The Liberal Party certainly always put forward money for that priority and specifically also in our relationship with the universities. I think it's the most important thing.[Translation]Mr. Treboutat, I understand your role and find it acceptable, but my questions are about your approach. If my understanding is correct, you establish priorities on new technological methods and identify different options so that those who have to make decisions afterwards can do so on their own. Therefore, you are not influenced by any pressures in terms of policy, and I think that is a good thing. However, I would like to go back to the protocol readiness. Hydroelectricity is important, especially in Quebec. Last week, I saw a report on the issue of lithium in electric car batteries. How do you ensure that safety accounts for a significant portion of your research? How does it work, specifically?We actually saw that one of the problems is really the lithium battery and not the electric car itself. The battery may overheat and cause problems. As a researcher, what is your protocol and the mechanism for ensuring doability when it comes to safety so that the next step can be taken in terms of marketing?Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation272601027260112726012272601327260142726015GeoffMunroPaulTreboutat//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[Translation]So you are on the moon these days.Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2726019PaulTreboutatPaulTreboutat//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (0915)[Translation]So there is hope for weight transfer. Is that what you are saying?Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2726021PaulTreboutatPaulTreboutat//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (0945)[English]Thanks, Mr. Chair.I was listening with interest to the parliamentary secretary's comments about the 200 years of innovation. I'm interested in innovation in terms of building Canada's competition in the world. I looked at the World Economic Forum to see where our weaknesses are. One weakness I found in Canada's economy was that we're 49th in government procurement of innovative technologies. There are other economies lapping us on this issue. I know that we have the CICP program, and hopefully, with time, that will pick up and will improve our ranking in the world. It's often been said that government is not good at picking and choosing winners and losers in innovative technologies. All the same, governments still do it. They do it in transport, in terms of modes of transport that they choose to privilege over others. My first question is addressed to Mr. Treboutat. What proportion of services do you provide for automotive transport compared to rail, and how is the allocation of resources by mode decided?Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2726129272613027261312726132MervTweedBrandon—SourisPaulTreboutat//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0950)[English]I mean automotive transport as compared to rail.Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2726135PaulTreboutatPaulTreboutat//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0950)[English]I think it's service transport, freight trucks, and automotive—road transport.Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2726137PaulTreboutatPaulTreboutat//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (0950)[English]My next question goes to Mr. Potter.The Library of Parliament submitted to us a list of federal organizations that distribute funds for transportation R and D. The Government of Canada has a number of research programs in which the NRC participates. The Automotive Partnership of Canada, the Institute for Aerospace Research, and the Institute for Ocean Technology are some of them.Why is there not an equivalent institute for rail, and do you see this as potentially a gap in current support for R and D? I know there's a rail division of the NRC, but it's unclear how much research they actually do.Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation272614227261432726144PaulTreboutatIanPotter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, NDP): (1000)[Translation]I want to begin by thanking the witnesses for joining us today.Mr. Munro you talked a lot about vehicle electrification. Could you tell me if you are talking about only cars or trains? What types of vehicles are you currently conducting research on?Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation27261632726164MervTweedBrandon—SourisGeoffMunro//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1000)[Translation]So you plan to study how natural gas could be used in trains, but no research is currently being conducted on rail electrification. Is that right?Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2726167GeoffMunroGeoffMunro//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1000)[Translation]I really liked the expression you used when you answered my colleague emphasizing the fact that electrification has been popular for a few years.Just this morning, I received an invitation from a Montreal group holding a seminar on the electrification of mass transit in Quebec and on how quickly that transition will happen. This is really something people are talking about. In my riding, we have the western train, which is a very important project for my constituents' public transit needs.The Direction de la santé publique recently published a report stating that train noise was more detrimental to health than airplane noise. That is really something we have been hearing a lot. In addition, I was wondering, Mr. Munro, whether you think you should conduct more research on developing electric rail transport. We know that it is more environmentally friendly. As for the issue of health and the noise study, R & D on that would be worthwhile.I am wondering whether the private sector is not doing too much research in that area, when yours is an organization that should be conducting that research.Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2726173272617427261752726176IanPotterGeoffMunro//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1020)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Munro, I have a question regarding efficiency in your report on the road map regarding electricity. As a matter of fact, it's to compare natural gas versus electricity.They're saying, rightly, that if you're using an electric motor, it would transform up to 90% of the energy into traction energy. They're saying here that if we're using[Translation]gas and a gas engine, only 30% of the energy would be transformed into traction energy.[English]If you look at the difference between the electric motor versus the natural gas motor, do we have some numbers on the efficiency of those natural gas motors?Energy conservationFuel efficient vehiclesInnovationNatural gasResearch and researchersTransportation27262322726233272623427262352726236MervTweedBrandon—SourisGeoffMunro//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1025)[English]I just received it. I'm sorry.Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation2726238GeoffMunroGeoffMunro//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1025)[English]Personally, I think we should use both. In relation to efficiency, would it be okay to suggest that for local or public transport, it would be more efficient to use electric motors, while for longer runs and bigger transportation, it's more efficient to use natural gas? I mean aside from the environmental issue, and just based on efficiency.Electric vehiclesEnergy conservationInnovationNatural gasResearch and researchersTransportation2726243GeoffMunroGeoffMunro//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/192DenisCoderreHon.Denis-CoderreBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CoderreDenis_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Denis Coderre: (1025)[English]The longer-term solution would be electricity—Mr. Geoff Munro: Yes, that's right, with what we know today.Hon. Denis Coderre: —because it's renewable?Mr. Geoff Munro: That's right.Hon. Denis Coderre: Thank you.Energy conservationInnovationResearch and researchersTransportation27262482726249272625027262512726252GeoffMunroMervTweedBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard, NDP): (1625)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chairman.Thanks to the witnesses for coming to provide us with even more information.My question is for Mr. Cohn. Your "Innovation Nation" strategy recommends a major transfer of resources of $3.5 billion, granted in the form of tax credits under a program known as the scientific research and experimental development program, SR&ED. You're in favour of direct funding measures for small and medium-sized businesses.Could you explain what currently isn't working in the funding program known as the SR&ED program, these tax credits granted by the government?Electronic commerceGovernment assistanceInnovationScientific Research and Experimental Development Tax Incentive Program26127362612737DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleSorinCohn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1630)[Translation]You mentioned a number of programs. Are small and medium-sized businesses aware of all these programs available to them, and, if so, are they using them to innovate?Electronic commerceGovernment assistanceGovernment programsInnovationSmall and medium-sized enterprises2612760SorinCohnSorinCohn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1550)[Translation]Do you think the Canadian innovation commercialization program has an adequate definition of the term "innovation"? If not, what would you add to this definition? Do you have any suggestion on this definition?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2578246GeoffHaywardAnthonyPatterson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1630)[Translation]Mr. Patterson, you said you would like the program to be available to companies who sold on the market only a few units of an innovative product. To me, this means you need more than just help for the commercialization of new products. What would be your recommendations and Mr. Hayward's on an improved program that would support innovation in our SMEs?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment assistanceInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises25784192578420GeoffHaywardAnthonyPatterson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette (Louis-Hébert, NDP): (1555)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chairman.My first question is for Mr. Hayes.In your presentation, you discussed the fact that it is important for businesses to establish ties with the university community. How can the government benefit from the synergy among university circles, innovating businesses and venture capital businesses?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesUniversity researchVenture capital2567954PatMartinWinnipeg CentreTomHayes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1610)[Translation]With regard to the Canadian Innovation Commercialization Program, the approach currently being used is to rely on existing products and to help SMEs commercialize them by putting them in touch with their first customer or, in cases where no assistance is found for them, by awarding them contracts so that their first customer is the federal government. The program is genuinely based on commercialization. However, it isn't a program based on ways of furthering innovation. Do you think it would be justified if the purpose of one of the components of that program was to encourage people to innovate?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2568008PatMartinWinnipeg CentrePatMartinWinnipeg Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault (Joliette, NDP): (1615)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My question is for Mr. Lampron.Aside from dairy production, what areas do you intend to do research in over the next few years?Agricultural policyAgricultural researchDairy farmingGrowing ForwardInnovation256767525676762567677LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundPierreLampron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1620)[Translation]Thank you.Do we have to worry about the disappearance of small dairy farms in the next few years?Agricultural policyAgricultural researchGrowing ForwardInnovation25676802567681PierreLampronPierreLampron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1620)[Translation]Earlier you talked about the welfare of animals. I live in the Lanaudière region, more specifically in Joliette, and I am seeing more and more animals out on pastures. This is something that we didn't see a few years ago. When I go to the countryside, I see that dairy farmers are leaving their animals outside in the fields. Does that have to do with the concept of animal welfare?Agricultural policyAnimal healthAnimal rights and welfareDairy farmingGrowing ForwardInnovation2567683PierreLampronPierreLampron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1620)[Translation]That certainly means more work for farmers, but...Agricultural policyAgricultural researchGrowing ForwardInnovation2567685PierreLampronPierreLampron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1620)[Translation]You are saying that we have to strengthen national markets. What do we have to do for that to happen?Agricultural policyAgricultural researchGrowing ForwardInnovation2567690JonBellJonBell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1620)[Translation]Yes, and there are also the small markets in towns and villages.Agricultural policyAgricultural researchGrowing ForwardInnovation2567692JonBellJonBell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1620)[Translation]Thank you.Would it be beneficial for producers to form cooperatives? Have you looked into that possibility?Agricultural cooperativesAgricultural policyAgricultural researchGrowing ForwardInnovationLocal products25676962567697LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundJonBell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau (Compton—Stanstead, NDP): (1635)[Translation]I have a question for Mr. Lampron. You say that, because of research, herds have produced higher yields; there are fewer cows per herd but dairy production is higher. That means that research has been done for the scientific component of Growing Forward 2. But are there enough programs that provide an incentive for researchers to work in areas like that, trying to make herds more productive, for example? Agricultural policyAgricultural researchGovernment assistanceGrowing ForwardInnovationResearch and researchers25677332567734LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundPierreLampron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau: (1635)[Translation]I am asking you whether there are enough researchers and whether government programs have incentives to encourage researchers to focus on specific areas like the one we are talking about.Agricultural policyAgricultural researchGrowing ForwardInnovation2567736PierreLampronPierreLampron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau: (1635)[Translation]So you are saying that, if there is not enough funding, they can change their area of research.Agricultural policyAgricultural researchGrowing ForwardInnovation2567740ÉmieDésiletsÉmieDésilets//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau: (1635)[Translation]In other words, Agriculture Canada's next Growing Forward 2 program should include more incentives for some areas of research.Agricultural policyAgricultural researchGrowing ForwardInnovation2567742ÉmieDésiletsÉmieDésilets//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau: (1635)[Translation]Thank you very much.My next question is for Mr. Bell.Most of the witnesses have said that marketing is the weak link in the innovation chain in Canada. Under Growing Forward, the Developing Innovative Agri-Products initiative provides funding for projects that fill the gap between discoveries and a product getting to the market.Do you think this program does a good job of improving marketing in the innovation chain? Do you think funding under this program is sufficient, especially for small producers?Agricultural policyAgricultural researchGrowing ForwardInnovation2567744256774525677462567747ÉmieDésiletsJonBell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau: (1635)[Translation]My next question is for Mr. MacLeod and Mr. Prouse.Do you think farmers have enough access to scientific discoveries and technological innovations through Growing Forward? In other words, can scientific discoveries be easily put into practice on the ground?Agricultural policyAgricultural practicesAgricultural researchGrowing ForwardInformation disseminationInnovation25677512567752JonBellPeterMacLeod//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau (Compton—Stanstead, NDP): (1550)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chairman.I also thank both of you for your fascinating and enthusiastic testimony.My question is for Mr. Fraser and Mr. Phillips.First, Mr. Phillips, do you think that research in Canada should increasingly have as its objective ensuring the food sovereignty of all Canadians? What type of research would this be?Agricultural policyAgricultural researchFood sovereigntyGrowing ForwardInnovation2557360255736125573622557363LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundPeter W.B.Phillips//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault (Joliette, NDP): (1650)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chairman.My question is for Mr. McLaughlin.Can you tell us more about the biomass? What can we do to raise the population's awareness of that sector?Agricultural policyBiochemistryBiomass energyBiotechnologyGrowing ForwardInnovation255754025575412557542LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundMurrayMcLaughlin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1655)[Translation]That is the case.You referred earlier to an investment in that sector. Can you tell us about the order of magnitude of that investment?Agricultural policyGrowing ForwardInnovation25575482557549MurrayMcLaughlinMurrayMcLaughlin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1655)[Translation]I am talking about the biomass sector.Agricultural policyGrowing ForwardInnovation2557551MurrayMcLaughlinMurrayMcLaughlin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1655)[Translation]Does the funding only come from the federal government? I believe I understood that the provinces would also provide funding to research.Agricultural policyGrowing ForwardInnovation2557555MurrayMcLaughlinMurrayMcLaughlin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1655)[Translation]My question is for Ms. Fowlie.What are the long-term employment perspectives in horticulture or small fruit production? We want to attract a new generation.Agricultural policyCareer developmentGrowing ForwardHorticultureInnovationYoung people25575582557559LarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundAnneFowlie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP): (1555)[Translation]First of all, I want to thank the three organization representatives for being here. What you have to say is very interesting.I'd like to address my first remarks to the people from the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. Thank you for being here. Please know that the official opposition shares your concerns as to the future of SMEs and the contribution they make to the Canadian economy and to job creation.Last week, we heard from representatives of the Canadian Business Information Technology Network, who were also quite critical of the Office of Small and Medium Enterprises.Allow me to quickly quote an excerpt from their presentation. I'd like to hear your comments in this regard. Our members are interested in seeing the mandate of the Office of Small and Medium Enterprises (OSME) expanded to include a more ''activist'' role designed not only to act as a public relations agent but also to really protect SMEs' interests. CABiNET agreed with the Conservative Party when it announced in March 2010 that it would be ''creating a level playing field for open source IT in government procurement and open up government IT contracts to SMEs by breaking up large IT projects into smaller components.'' But that was the Conservative Party of the United Kingdom. We hope that the same is true for the Conservative Party of Canada. According to you, should we broaden the mandate of the office? Should it be given greater means? In your opinion, should the office act essentially as a public relations office that provides information? Or should it have a more proactive role?AdvocateBusiness developmentCanadian Business Information Technology NetworkCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesPublic relationsSmall and medium-sized enterprises254682425468252546826254682725468282546829PatMartinWinnipeg CentreCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1600)[Translation]Thank you very much.I'd like to ask a question on your presentation, which was very well put together, as a matter of fact. Congratulations.Several things surprised me, among them table 2. There is a nice pie chart there indicating how long the organization has been doing business with the federal government. However we see that almost 85% of the respondents from your federation stated that they had been doing so for more than five years. Only 3.5% of them replied that they had been dealing with the federal government for less than a year.This leads me to think that those who know the rules of the game are skilful and that it is complicated to get into the system and that the door is almost closed, that is to say that you have to fight a little in order to get in there.Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2546835254683625468372546838CorinnePohlmannPatMartinWinnipeg Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35397JacquesGourdeJacques-GourdeLotbinière—Chutes-de-la-ChaudièreConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GourdeJacques_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Jacques Gourde (Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, CPC): (1600)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.I thank the witnesses for being here with us this afternoon. Your comments are very important to us. They are very interesting, and especially very much appreciated on this side.Ms. Pohlmann, in your presentation, you briefly referred to the Red Tape Reduction Commission the government set up to help small and medium businesses. Your federation had in fact suggested that. And speaking of suggestions, perhaps you could take this opportunity to tell us what you would recommend to the Red Tape Reduction Commission so that it could better assist small and medium businesses in being quicker and in achieving savings.Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesRed Tape Reduction Commission254684425468452546846PatMartinWinnipeg CentreCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35397JacquesGourdeJacques-GourdeLotbinière—Chutes-de-la-ChaudièreConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GourdeJacques_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Jacques Gourde: (1600)[Translation]You also said that in reviewing bids, people should not necessarily go to the lowest bids, but that the history of the business as well as other criteria should be taken into consideration as well. Can you give us more detail on that? This could lead to some interesting suggestions.Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationInvitation to tenderOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises2546852CorinnePohlmannCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35397JacquesGourdeJacques-GourdeLotbinière—Chutes-de-la-ChaudièreConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GourdeJacques_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Jacques Gourde: (1605)[Translation]You said that people had trouble recognizing the office and were not necessarily aware of the services it offers. Does the federation promote the Office of Small and Medium Enterprises?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInformation disseminationInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises2546857PatMartinWinnipeg CentreLouis-MartinParent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35397JacquesGourdeJacques-GourdeLotbinière—Chutes-de-la-ChaudièreConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GourdeJacques_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Jacques Gourde: (1605)[Translation]Do people call you afterwards to tell you whether it worked or whether they were able to obtain a reply?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInformation disseminationInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises2546860Louis-MartinParentLouis-MartinParent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses for being here. They were very interesting presentations.I'm particularly interested in your comments on fairness. Of course, there are a number of ways in which fairness could be questioned. And to my question, everybody is welcome to respond--including you, Madam Scarborough, if you feel so inclined. So there are a couple of ways. For example, we could build criteria into a program or within a process that disadvantages automatically a certain size of business. Also, we could talk about how small businesses are defined within OSME, for example. They've chosen, rightly or wrongly, to define them as 500 employees or less. But I notice that Export Development Canada, on the other hand--I can understand why there's so much confusion, as there doesn't seem to be the same definition of small business across the board--uses the definition of $20 million or less of business. I'm wondering if you have an opinion on what would be a fair definition, or a fairer definition, of a small or medium-sized business.Business developmentBusiness processesCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises25468652546866254686725468682546869PatMartinWinnipeg CentreCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1610)[English]What dollar amount would that be? Could you give me a ballpark figure?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises2546878MichelleScarboroughMichelleScarborough//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1610)[English]I was rather shocked to see that 94.1% of your people weren't aware of OSME's role, and I know there's a great website in place. What do you think the government could be doing more to ensure that businesses know about OSME?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInformation disseminationInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2546883PatMartinWinnipeg CentreCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1630)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also want to thank the witnesses for having travelled today in order to help us find some solutions together.Let's talk about the Canadian Innovation Commercialization Program. Can you tell us what criteria might be used to highlight the value of SMEs and what they are offering rather than only considering the lowest bidder?Could you answer that question, Ms. Pohlmann?Application processBusiness developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises254697225469732546974PatMartinWinnipeg CentreCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1630)[Translation]Very well, thank you.Proximity, and the fact of being able to offer the service or not allows them to examine that.I would like to know something else. Which OSME requirements cause problems for the SMEs? Perhaps you have some examples to give us of that. We heard from one organization that talked about unreasonable requests for references. Do you have any examples of that type you could share with us?Business developmentBusiness processesCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises254697925469802546981CorinnePohlmannCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1630)[Translation]Yes.Business developmentBusiness processesCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises2546983CorinnePohlmannCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1630)[Translation]I want to know whether there are other examples of requirements on the part of the OSME that cause problems for the SMEs when they are bidding. Are there other unreasonable requirements putting obstacles in the way of the SMEs? Do you have any examples you could share with us? Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationInvitation to tenderOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises2546987CorinnePohlmannLouis-MartinParent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1635)[Translation]Do you think that this disqualifies...Business developmentBusiness processesCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises2546989Louis-MartinParentLouis-MartinParent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1635)[Translation]In a certain way, perhaps.I also read in the recommendations, that you raised the possibility of reviewing mega-contracts. We saw that some other people had quite plainly proposed the elimination of mega-contracts since they do not advantage SMEs. The idea was to break down the contracts so as to give SMEs a better opportunity. Do you agree with that? Would it be a good idea to break up the mega-contracts?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises25469912546992Louis-MartinParentCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1640)[Translation]My question is for Ms. Scarborough.I'd like to understand your business's activities better, to better understand your investment fund. When an entrepreneur tries to go into business by creating an SME, he is using his own funds, his savings, he calls on his family and his friends. He may also go to a chartered bank. I am talking here about the big banks that everyone knows. He may also go to the Business Development Bank of Canada, a parapublic organization whose mandate is to support SMEs and grant them loans. I think that there is a graduated approach to risk. The BDC takes more risks, of course, than a chartered bank.Would you say that you take more risks than the BDC when it comes to SMEs and small investors? If that is the case, do you ask for a better return on the capital you invest?Angel investmentsBusiness developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises254702925470302547031PatMartinWinnipeg CentreMichelleScarborough//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1645)[Translation]The vast majority of businesses have been dealing with the government for over five years. One question was raised at the last meeting. On the topic of challenges, the fact was mentioned that the name of some SMEs was not recognized, nor did they get the opportunity of offering services to the government.According to the CABiNET:Government officials, when researching solutions, will often go to the recognized brand names rather than seek support from smaller Canadian suppliers—even from those that specialize in the very areas where the expertise may be sought. Bureaucrats are not forced to seek out innovative solutions that could be provided by SMEs. They find it easier to revert back to the old and known entities such as the large companies. Do you share that perception?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises2547037254703825470392547040MichelleScarboroughCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1645)[Translation]It's difficult to know whether the same names, the same big businesses come back all the time. Do you think the government should prepare a report on that? Do your members have access to that type of information? As for the companies that are overused—do you think there should be more transparency?Access to informationBusiness developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2547045PatMartinWinnipeg CentreCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (1710)[Translation]I would like to pursue the discussion on the same subject. I believe that Canada has innovated tremendously because of the challenges it faces relative to its territory, its climate and its demography. How can we continue to innovate in order to overcome the challenges we face in the digital world? Indeed, we must be able to serve everyone and to avoid having two classes of citizens: those living in urban areas and those living in rural regions, those who are younger and those who are older, etc. Advanced wireless servicesDigital economyElectronic commerceInnovationRural communities25409252540926GlennThibeaultSudburyJohnWeigelt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau: (1650)[English]Thank you.Mr. Boon, what type of science innovation was helpful for the cattle industry in the past years? Did Growing Forward help in any way?Agricultural researchCattle farmingFarming and farmersGrowing ForwardInnovation2534471MaryBuhrKevinBoon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat (Pontiac, NDP): (1600)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chairman.First, let's just remind ourselves of the context. As members of the opposition party, one of our important roles is to ask whether programs are doing what they are supposed to be doing, and what can be done to improve them. It is in light of this context that I will ask my questions.My first question is for the representatives of the Canadian Business Information Network, CABiNET.First, thank you for being here. I am very pleased to hear from you. What you have said is very interesting. You explained how the office could do more to encourage SMEs. Ms. Shereen Benzvy Miller testified before the committee, I believe it was last week. I asked her a question with regard to the definition of a small and medium size enterprise. She replied that an SME was defined as being a business with 500 employees or fewer, regardless of business revenues.Do you think that the government should change the definition in order to reach more SMEs?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises253391125339122533913253391425339152533916JohnMcCallumHon.Markham—UnionvilleJeffLynt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1600)[Translation]I can tell you that she did not distinguish between a tiny company and one which employs 500 people. I can confirm that. If we do not have a definition that takes into account business income, in your opinion, does this provide an advantage to companies that have the financial resources to apply for government funding, for instance, by hiring people to make these applications?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises25339192533920JeffLyntJeffLynt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1605)[Translation]Fine.My next question is for the professor. First, thank you for being here.You mentioned that the United States were investing more effort in research and innovation. Over the last 10 years, did you see a trend within government to reduce investment in basic research, which is necessary for innovation?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment assistanceInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesResearch and researchers253392425339252533926JohnMcCallumHon.Markham—UnionvillePetrHanel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1605)[Translation]Therefore, in your opinion, should it be the role of the government to fill that void?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment assistanceInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesResearch and researchers2533929PetrHanelPetrHanel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35397JacquesGourdeJacques-GourdeLotbinière—Chutes-de-la-ChaudièreConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GourdeJacques_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Jacques Gourde (Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, CPC): (1605)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.I would like to thank the witnesses for having travelled to be here with us. We are always pleased to hear from small and medium enterprise owners, who are key actors in our country. You are the economic engine of Canada, and we are very aware that, without all of your work and all of your efforts, we would not be one of the best countries in the world.Our government created the Office of Small and Medium Enterprises to help you and to support you. We also have the Canadian Innovation Commercialization Program. Further, we have just created a new tax credit to help small and medium enterprises hire employees.My question is for all five witnesses, for those of you who have had the opportunity to use the services of the Office of Small and Medium Enterprises, and of the new Canadian Innovation Commercialization Program. Can you explain to us how the office and the program helped you grow your business?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises2533935253393625339372533938JohnMcCallumHon.Markham—UnionvilleSueAbu-Hakima//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP): (1610)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.I would also like to thank the witnesses who travelled to be with us today. My first question is for you, Professor Hanel. You indicated earlier that Canada now ranks 20th with regard to investment in research and development. I was surprised to hear this. I feel that this ranking does not reflect the standing a G7 country should have in the world.Notwithstanding the fact that I find it unfortunate that we are trailing in research and development, I would like you to take a few moments to explain the consequences of this situation on the Canadian economy and for our SMEs.Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment assistanceInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesResearch and researchers2533953253395425339552533956JohnMcCallumHon.Markham—UnionvillePetrHanel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1615)[Translation]My next question is for the representative of CABiNET.Your written presentation was more forceful than your verbal one. In it, you compare the Office of Small and Medium Enterprises to a public relations agency which does not really protect the interests of SMEs. I would like to hear more from you on that.It also says that "some governments have, on occasion, used procurement vehicles to stop SMEs from bidding on even smaller projects."What exactly do you mean?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises2533961253396225339632533964PetrHanelCathyMcCallion//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette (Louis-Hébert, NDP): (1635)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chairman.My first question is for Ms. McCallion.You are the second person in the course of two meetings who has suggested that responsibility be transferred from Public Works and Government Services Canada to Industry Canada. This is beginning to pique my curiosity. I would like you to tell us more about this and why you believe that this would be more effective.Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramChain of commandDepartment of IndustryDepartment of Public Works and Government ServicesInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises253405025340512534052JohnMcCallumHon.Markham—UnionvilleCathyMcCallion//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1635)[Translation]All right. In that case, we are talking more about a separation in terms of governance than anything else. The management is not related to the mission of the departments. So what you are really talking about is a matter of governance and relationships between the people working for the office and their colleagues.Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernanceInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2534054CathyMcCallionCathyMcCallion//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1635)[Translation]Mr. Lynt, you are probably aware that, in the field of information technology, one of the best practices, which has now been recognized, consists in not creating huge projects, because they always end up costing a huge amount of money.What do you think of the idea of breaking down IT projects into smaller pieces, and how do you see the role of small enterprises in relation to IT giants?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInformation technologyInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesSmall and medium-sized enterprises25340562534057CathyMcCallionJeffLynt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1640)[Translation]Thank you very much.My next question is for Mr. Rivenell and Ms. Abu-Hakima.The impression we get is that there is a lot of frustration for people who have to deal with government. Obviously, you are in a good position to talk about that. However, I imagine that you also have to deal with the private sector, be it in the form of small or large companies.Based on your personal experience, can you compare the problems you encounter in dealing with government versus big business? Are the problems the same or are they really different?BureaucracyBusiness developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2534061253406225340632534064JeffLyntSueAbu-Hakima//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1645)[Translation]Mr. Hanel, you are the only person I have not put a question to yet. I will now have the pleasure of doing so.Incidentally, I just want to point out that I find all of you very interesting.Mr. Hanel, you said a couple of things which really struck me, including the fact that there was not enough of a demand for innovation. Can you tell us exactly what you meant by that?When you answer that question, I would like you to make a connection with the fact that the private sector in Canada does not feel the need to invest more in innovation.Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesPrivate sector2534097253409825340992534100JohnMcCallumHon.Markham—UnionvillePetrHanel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1645)[Translation]I have an additional question regarding that aspect. You said that the Canadian market is small. However, given the technology of the Internet, borders are increasingly disappearing.Since Internet technologies can help businesses market themselves, have there been any improvements? Has this helped Canadian companies?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationInternetOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises25341032534104PetrHanelPetrHanel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1645)[Translation]Let's come back to the fact that there is a lack of demand for innovation. Are companies too comfortable? As far as I'm concerned, if we do not innovate, we will regress. If that happens, our competitors will eat us alive. So what exactly is going on?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2534106PetrHanelPetrHanel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1650)[Translation]You briefly explained how we could stimulate offer and demand. Could you briefly tell us what, in our opinion, are the best methods to use in Canada to stimulate offer and demand in innovation?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2534112JohnMcCallumHon.Markham—UnionvillePetrHanel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP): (1545)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I also thank our witnesses for being here.I must say right from the outset, Ms. Ing, that if you contribute in any way whatsoever to the success of the Super Bowl, you already have all of my esteem and admiration. I also want to say that I am very happy for the success of your small business. I think that that success has something to do with your presence here today.I'd like to take a few minutes to provide a broader picture of innovation and research and development in Canada. According to OECD figures, in 2008-2009, Canada was the OECD class dunce with regard to direct investment in research and development. Our businesses come dead last in the rankings. This has consequences such as the fact that we are lagging behind when it comes to registering patents, as compared to our OECD competitors, as we are in the number of doctorates awarded.I would also like to give you a broader overview, one which goes beyond what the Office of Small and Medium Enterprises can do, and we applaud what they do do, of course. Indeed, the investments made by businesses themselves in research and development has been stagnating since 2000. It was approximately 1% of GDP in 2000 before it went up a bit to 1.3% in 2001. Afterwards, it went back down to 1% in 2009.What do you think the government could do? Could it not better support businesses, do more to help them to invest in research and development, and support them better through direct subsidies to research and development, since our country is the poorest performer in that respect among OECD countries?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment assistanceInnovationOffice of Small and Medium EnterprisesResearch and researchers25246642524665252466625246672524668PatMartinWinnipeg CentrePatMartinWinnipeg Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1550)[Translation]My question is addressed to whoever feels comfortable saying how they would see the government help them better, either personally or in helping all of their competitors and colleagues who are working in an innovative field in the country.Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2524670PatMartinWinnipeg CentreLianneIng//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1550)[Translation]Fine.I'd like to take the opportunity to put one last question to Ms. Ing.You have already stated that the program does a good job but that there is a lack of resources. You reminded us that you would probably need more stable funding in the medium or long term. How many years are we talking about? What would allow you to invest in a project that would not be a short-term one?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment assistanceInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises252467625246772524678KarnaGuptaLianneIng//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat (Pontiac, NDP): (1600)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank all the witnesses for being here.I'd like to come back to the question my colleague Mr. Cannan raised, but from a different angle. Firstly, have you ever done business with the Canadian government? Moreover, if you have never done so, what improvements should be made to the application process so as to help companies who have never done business with the Government of Canada have access to the program?Those are my first two questions, I will have others later. The questions are addressed more particularly to Ms. Preston and Ms. Ing. Application processBusiness developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises252470225247032524704PatMartinWinnipeg CentreMonicaPreston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1600)[Translation]Fine.I have a few additional questions. Concerning the assessment of your applications, have you found that the evaluation criteria that were used, as well as the information regarding the members of the committee, were well communicated to you? Was the process sufficiently transparent?Application processBusiness developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises25247092524710LianneIngLianneIng//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1600)[Translation]Ms. Preston, you mentioned that you have 50 employees, and Ms. Ing, you stated that you have 85, or was it the reverse? Correct me if I'm mistaken.How many people worked on the application and on its follow-up? Did this require a lot of energy and resources? How many employees took part in that process?Application processBusiness developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises25247142524715PatMartinWinnipeg CentreMonicaPreston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35397JacquesGourdeJacques-GourdeLotbinière—Chutes-de-la-ChaudièreConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GourdeJacques_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Jacques Gourde (Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, CPC): (1605)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the witnesses for being here and congratulate them on their businesses.Ms. Preston and Ms. Ing, you talked earlier about the development of your businesses. We are happy to welcome you as it is gratifying to see our small and medium Canadian businesses succeed to that extent. You are important economic motors in our country, and that is why we will be listening with particular interest to the comments you are going to be making.I think that your businesses may have benefited from the Canadian Innovation Commercialization Program, the CICP. What were your reasons for taking part in that government initiative?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramCost-benefit analysisInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises252472125247222524723PatMartinWinnipeg CentreLianneIng//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35397JacquesGourdeJacques-GourdeLotbinière—Chutes-de-la-ChaudièreConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GourdeJacques_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Jacques Gourde: (1605)[Translation]Could that program be improved even more?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramCost-benefit analysisInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2524727MonicaPrestonLianneIng//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette (Louis-Hébert, NDP): (1620)[Translation]Thank you very much. I thank the witnesses for their presence.I was struck by one thing in your presentations, and that was the importance you attribute to commercialization as well as to the first steps in that process.Ms. Preston, you said that it was important to you to be able to use the government's name right from the beginning of the commercialization of an innovation in order to present it to various clients. You gave me the impression that the rapid commercialization of an innovation is what is important to you in the process of research, development, innovation or commercialization. Is my perception accurate?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises252478025247812524782MikeWallaceBurlingtonMonicaPreston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1620)[Translation]Very well.Ms. Ing, you stated that the program was on the right track and you shared certain ideas with us to make it go forward. Since you represent a company which is based on innovation, I would like you to share with us certain ideas that might allow you not to go from innovation to commercialization, but rather to go from a good idea to innovation. What could be done to help businesses like yours to be more competitive?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramCompetitionInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises25247862524787MonicaPrestonLianneIng//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35399DenisBlanchetteDenis-BlanchetteLouis-HébertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteDenis_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Denis Blanchette: (1625)[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Gupta, in the information technology field, good ideas can become obsolete very quickly . You put considerable emphasis on the commercialization of new ideas. I would like you to explain somewhat more in depth the particular support businesses in the information technology area would need, as compared to other high tech companies that can work with longer development horizons. Can you tell us what means should be taken to make the information technology sector in Canada more competitive?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInformation technologyInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises25247912524792LianneIngKarnaGupta//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1630)[Translation]Thank you Mr. Chairman.I have two brief questions. I think I will be sharing my five minutes with my colleague Mathieu.When we considered the presentation you would be making, we wondered what your opinion would be on the Canadian government's position with regard to procurement, especially procurement from Canadian suppliers. Should the government give priority to Canadian businesses, in your opinion, when making its purchases, so as to give them a hand up and support job creation here in our country?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramGovernment contractsInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises252482625248272524828MikeWallaceBurlingtonMonicaPreston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58775AlexandreBoulericeAlexandre-BoulericeRosemont—La Petite-PatrieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/BoulericeAlexandre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alexandre Boulerice: (1630)[Translation]Thank you for that brief and precise answer.I am going to ask a more open-ended question than the previous one. What do you think would be the most appropriate methods and means to better stimulate innovation in our country? I'd like to hear your suggestions.Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises252483025248312524832MonicaPrestonKarnaGupta//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1635)[Translation]When there was talk of increasing investment in this program, you were all in agreement. However, the fact of investing massively in projects that won't necessarily have the expected innovative impact presents a certain risk for the government. It's probably possible to see what the situation is two years after the start of a pilot program.Stranger yet was what Ms. Shereen Benzvy Miller, the Director General of the Office of Small and Medium Enterprises at Public Works and Government Services, said:The success of the program should be measured by the interest shown by the businesses as well as the activities and investments made, and not by the innovation created.Since the purpose of the office is to help businesses fill the gaps, should the success of the program not be measured by the results obtained rather than by activities and investments?Business developmentCanadian Innovation Commercialization ProgramCost-benefit analysisInnovationOffice of Small and Medium Enterprises2524840252484125248422524843LianneIngLianneIng//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1605)[Translation]First of all, I would like to thank you for coming. Your comments were very interesting in all respects.We've talked a lot about the importance of investing in innovation and research, in particular. We've also talked about this problem that is not exclusive to agriculture, the issue of the transfer of knowledge to produce results, as Mr. Miville explained.I was wondering whether each of you were considering any courses of action to enable us to invest in knowledge that would produce results more quickly.Perhaps we could start with Mr. Miville.Agricultural researchBiotechnologyBusiness developmentGrowing ForwardInnovation2506950250695125069522506953FrankValerioteGuelphClaudeMiville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1605)[Translation]I'm going to pick up on that. I'd like you to tell me about the strategic framework entitled Growing Forward. You seemed to say it was very good for you. However, do you have any minor criticisms to make?BiotechnologyGrowing ForwardInnovation2506961ClaudeMivilleClaudeMiville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault (Joliette, NDP): (1640)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chairman.Thank you for accepting our invitation. My question is for the president of the Canola Council of Canada.I'd like to make an incidental comment. Having been a farmer myself, I know that farmers rely to a considerable degree on the weather, soil drainage and so on.With regard to canola, earlier you said that it is Canada's most valuable crop and that there were considerable benefits involved in using it, even in animal feed. Consequently, if animals are well fed, we, who eat those animals, will be in better health.Here's what concerns me. Since this will be a valuable crop affording considerable benefits, will we be invaded by canola crops from other countries? How will you inform the public about the benefits of canola? Will you indicate them on labels? What did you think of?BiotechnologyCanola growingFeed grainsForeign marketsGrowing ForwardInnovation25070762507077250707825070792507080FrankValerioteGuelphJoAnne L.ButhHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1640)[Translation]My next question is for Mr. Brandle and it concerns our food sovereignty.A little earlier you said we had to help the Campbell company of Canada obtain healthier, better food. How do you think we can help that company?BiotechnologyCampbell Company of CanadaGrowing ForwardHorticultureInnovationNutrition25070872507088FrankValerioteGuelphJimBrandle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58661FrancineRaynaultFrancine-RaynaultJolietteNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RaynaultFrancine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Francine Raynault: (1640)[Translation]Then I'm going to ask another question.A little earlier, Mr. Charlebois said it was hard for people on fixed incomes or declining incomes to obtain healthy foods so they can stay healthy because pensions aren't indexed to the cost of living.How could we help those people? What's your take on that?BiotechnologyFood supplyGrowing ForwardInnovation250709125070922507093FrankValerioteGuelphSylvainCharlebois//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau (Compton—Stanstead, NDP): (1650)[Translation]Thank you for being here today.My first question is for Mr. Charlebois.You raised the multidimensional aspect of the food issue. In your opinion, should climate change, both the opportunities it affords and the problems it will be causing, be taken into consideration in the strategic planning of agricultural and agri-food research in Canada?There are crop concentrations in various parts of Canada. There will be migrations; something will happen. There's too much water in Quebec in spring and so on. I'd like to hear your comments on that subject.Agricultural policyBiotechnologyClimate change and global warmingGrowing ForwardInnovation2507127250712825071292507130FrankValerioteGuelphSylvainCharlebois//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau: (1650)[Translation]You also said we couldn't be good in all fields. That moreover is an economic principle that is about two centuries old. Are there any choices that we should make among certain agricultural or agri-food sectors?Agricultural policyBiotechnologyGrowing ForwardInnovation2507133SylvainCharleboisSylvainCharlebois//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58637JeanRousseauJean-RousseauCompton—StansteadNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RousseauJean_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jean Rousseau: (1655)[English]I have a last question for Mr. Brandle.Mr. Charlebois talked about how the consumer is not very aware of GMOs. How do you think we should educate consumers about the effects or the non-effects? Every time you talk about GMOs, they think about DNA transformation and things like that, so how do you think we should educate consumers?BiotechnologyGenetically modified organismsGrowing ForwardInformation disseminationInnovation25071392507140FrankValerioteGuelphJimBrandleINTERVENTIONParliament and SessionDiscussed TopicProcedural TermCommitteePerson SpeakingProvince / TerritoryCaucusParticipation TypeSearchResults per pageOrder byTarget search languageSide by SideMaximum returned rowsPagePUBLICATION TYPE