//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): (1615)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I will ask only one question, and then I will yield the floor to Mr. Rankin.As we know, many homes have never been tested for radon, although a number of them are at risk. Could it be appropriate for CMHC, when processing a file for a home purchase, to require that the new buyer test for radon? That way someone buying a new home would know whether it contains radon or not and whether they have to make improvements to remedy the problem.Canada Mortgage and Housing CorporationHousingLung cancerRadonBenLobbHuron—BruceKelleyBush//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1615)[Translation]That's okay. I'm finished.KelleyBushKelleyBush//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette (Drummond, NDP): (0935)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My thanks to the witnesses for being here.My first question is for the representative of Agnico Eagle Mines Limited, Louise Grondin.Looking at your 2014 report on sustainable development, I see that your annual reports are quite comprehensive. You have mines in Quebec, including in Abitibi, and I see you have a section on greenhouse gas emissions. Are you a participant in the Quebec-California carbon market that requires caps on emissions and carbon trading to which Quebec is a signatory? Is your company, or will it be, regulated by that carbon market?Associations, institutions and organizationsEmissions tradingEnvironmental protectionMining industryPrivate sectorHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaLouiseGrondin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0935)[Translation]My apologies, Ms. Grondin, but I have very little time at my disposal.LouiseGrondinLouiseGrondin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0935)[Translation]Sorry to interrupt, Ms. Grondin, but we have very little time. That is why I am rushing you a bit.If I understand correctly, you are currently not subject to the carbon market, but what do you think about that idea in general? I see that you are making tremendous efforts. You have reduced your intensity by 28% in one year. That was last year, so from 2013 to 2014. You are making efforts. How interested is your company in participating in the carbon market? Why would that be a good idea for you?Associations, institutions and organizationsEmissions tradingEnvironmental protectionPrivate sectorLouiseGrondinLouiseGrondin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0935)[Translation]The carbon market is a system for capping emissions. A reduction in emissions is requested each year. Afterwards, if someone is not able to achieve the reduction objectives, they can exchange or purchase credits. I think that could benefit you. Although the intensity of GHG emissions has greatly diminished, it is still difficult to control the emissions. Your company continues to grow, and GHG emissions in the mines are increasing in spite of of everything. Therefore, I think it is important to make all the necessary efforts, as you mentioned, to combat this GHG scourge.I would like to say something to Ms. Strom.In the analysis before us, we see that you have concluded an agreement with the Pembina Institute. I saw that the institute produced a report in 2010, and the report talked about some problems related to water retention ponds, for instance. I suppose it is based on—Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionPrivate sectorLouiseGrondinHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—Conestoga//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0940)[Translation]Okay.I suppose you concluded the agreement with the institute in order to improve that situation.Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental non-governmental organizationsEnvironmental protectionPrivate sectorThe Pembina InstituteHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaArleneStrom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris (St. John's East, NDP): (1650)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you, gentlemen, for joining us. I have to say, General Lawson, that you should get the medal for bravery for showing up today, after yesterday's incidents in the media. But I do want to follow up on that, General, because we had a statement from Madam Justice Deschamps in her report, which I will read to you. The report says that the military is rife with discrimination, and abuse towards women starts from their first days in uniform while commanders write it off as part of life in the armed forces. Her conclusion is that “there is an undeniable problem of sexual harassment and sexual assault” in the Canadian Armed Forces, “which requires direct and sustained action”. Do you agree with that statement in light of your comments last night, and in light of the fact that your own internal report, completed about a year ago, said there was nothing wrong with the policies and procedures in the Canadian Armed Forces?Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillThomasLawson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1650)[English]General, with regard to your statement last night, I don't know if what you issued would be characterized as an apology, although it has been called that. You recognized that it was an awkward statement, but the suggestion that the problem of sexual assault and sexual harassment in the army is something of a biological imperative, that men can't help themselves, seems to be archaic, at best. Would you not agree that this kind of attitude, if it were pervasive in the military—particularly at the senior command level, like yourself—would in fact contribute to that problem, or even covertly excuse it?Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentThomasLawsonThomasLawson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1650)[English]Mr. Kenney, in light of the report of Madam Deschamps and certainly the comments, even though he is taking them back today and apologizing for them, many Canadians feel that the military cannot solve its own problem. It seems to be that you, in your department, and your government, are implicitly taking the attitude that this is the military's problem, and that the military can go ahead and solve it.Are you and your government prepared to take responsibility to ensure that women or the LGBT individuals who have also been identified and who joined the military are going to be safeguarded, safe, and in a safe place if they join the military? Are you going to take responsibility for that and are you and your government going to follow up on an ongoing basis to ensure that this is happening?Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesGender minoritiesSexual harassmentWomenThomasLawsonJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1650)[English]That's a commitment I will assure you that this side of the House and many Canadians will want to follow up on, on a regular basis. If I may, I will move to a couple of incidents and one recent one in particular. Who gave the authorization to risk the Canadian Forces members, officials, and the Prime Minister himself to go to the front lines of the activity and mission in Iraq, where the Prime Minister had said that Canadian Forces members would not be, for the sake of a photo op with no operational or public purposes, a stunt for publicity purposes?Was that authorized by you, Minister Kenney, or by you, General Lawson? It seems to me that the additional special forces people who were brought there, as well as the officials who were there, along with the Prime Minister himself, would have been placed in a dangerous situation on the front lines where we know there have been incidents of return fire and fire. That seems to me to be reckless. It seems to have been done solely for the purpose of a photo op. Why would you, Minister, or you, General Lawson, authorize that or did the authorization come from somewhere else?Harper, StephenIraqMilitary operations and eventsOperation ImpactState visitsJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1655)[English]In light of the previous questioner, who asked a short question and got a long question and a long answer—PeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1655)[English]Mr. Chairman, thank you. I'll just read some headlines: “Canada and the West losing war against ISIS”, “ISIS poses bigger threat after nearly a year of coalition bombing”, and “Islamist group is now a more immediate risk to more people, larger centres than ever”. Does Canada have any independent strategy in terms of understanding what's happening on the ground in Iraq with the three separate forces at work—the Shiites, the Sunni, and the Kurds—without any diplomatic presence other than one liaison officer in Iraq, in Bagdad, and nothing in Syria and nothing in Iran? Do we have an independent strategy? Are we just tagging along?Diplomacy and diplomatsIraqMilitary operations and eventsOperation ImpactPeterKentHon.ThornhillJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud (Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, NDP): (1715)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I know that the issue has been raised by several of my committee colleagues, but my first question is for General Lawson.I would like some clarification about what you said yesterday. I don't want to focus on the controversial remarks, although they are quite frankly disgraceful. One thing worries me about the statement you made afterwards—which was supposed to be an apology for said comments. You said you wanted to examine very seriously the sexual misconduct issues in the Canadian Armed Forces using an action plan based on the 10 recommendations from the Deschamps report. However, there seems to be some ambivalence when it comes to the Canadian Armed Forces' willingness to implement all the recommendations from the report. That is something the NDP has been calling for since the report was published.My mother is still actively serving in the Canadian Armed Forces, and I am worried about the safety in her work environment. I would like to know whether the Canadian Armed Forces will really adopt all the recommendations from the Deschamps report.Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillThomasLawson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1720)[Translation]Thank you.I also heard the minister make a formal commitment to keeping an eye on the situation and to ensuring that outcomes will be achieved. For our part, my colleagues and I will make sure to ask the right questions and to check whether the work is being done. That is a priority for us. The Valcartier military base is in my riding. So this is a huge concern for me.Let's come back to the topic at hand. I just mentioned the Valcartier base. As was said a little earlier, 220 military members from the Valcartier military base—mainly parachutists—will be in Poland as part of Operation Reassurance from June 28 to July 15. For the first time, in Poland, a rotation will last six months instead of three. Could you explain to us why the rotation will be longer in that specific case?Military operations and eventsMilitary personnelOperation ReassurancePolandThomasLawsonCharlesLamarre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1720)[Translation]I know there is currently no plan to send to Ukraine soldiers who will be deployed on that rotation. They will be in Poland and may have to travel to other Eastern European countries. I know that Ukraine is currently not in the plans. Can that change as part of the mission?Military operations and eventsMilitary personnelOperation ReassuranceUkraineCharlesLamarreCharlesLamarre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1720)[Translation]Thank you.CharlesLamarrePeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1730)[English]Would there be time for one quick question to the minister, Mr. Chair, asking for a timeline on the implementation of the Deschamps report?Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71447PierreNantelPierre-NantelLongueuil—Pierre-BoucherNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/NantelPierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Nantel (Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, NDP): (1715)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Mr. Pelley, did you want to add anything to the answer you gave Mr. Young?[English]GordonBrownLeeds—GrenvilleKeithPelley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71447PierreNantelPierre-NantelLongueuil—Pierre-BoucherNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/NantelPierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Nantel: (1715)[English]Absolutely.KeithPelleyKeithPelley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71447PierreNantelPierre-NantelLongueuil—Pierre-BoucherNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/NantelPierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Nantel: (1715)[Translation]I see that your television is clearly a service television. That is why you are available on the air, as normal, and on cable.To be honest, the situation is very comical. “Comical” is not really the right word to use. Instead, perhaps I should say that it is very ironic to get to the end of the parliamentary session and realize how much of a mess this government has made. All this time, it has been letting the situation get more toxic.My comments seem to be very election-oriented, but the truth is that a report was produced in 2011 on challenges related to emerging digital media in Canada. The government shelved the report, and nothing happened. Today, people and communities are losing a news service with a CRTC licence. The CRTC was supposed to establish the process so that this would be available to people. But it turns out that business people have lost their business model and that media are organized vertically, which makes the situation difficult for you.Mr. Vaughan told you that, given the number of sister companies you have, you could self-finance. I dislike the fact that there is no framework for such complex activities. I see that Rogers, which is one of our largest media families and plays a key role, is basically in the situation you are describing. I am sure that you have difficult choices to make. It is clear that the laxity of government policies and the lack of vision have led to a bankruptcy. I'm not talking about a financial bankruptcy, but about a problem for audiences and entrepreneurs.You have my sympathies, as you have had an unpleasant quarter of an hour. We represent all our constituents. This is our job, and it's normal for us to ask you the question. I would like to express my sympathy to you over the fact that the government has ignored the arrival of a new platform, a new supply, the place of heritage and Canadian identity and content the news represents. That is a relevant editorial and a Canadian vision of things. What strikes me the most in this whole matter is that business people want to do business in a field useful to Canadians. Canadians are the ones who consume that service, but they can no longer do so because there have been no updates to keep pace with the proliferation of international platforms.I feel the government has also neglected other aspects. Clearly, I will finish this Parliamentary season, but I hope the heritage committee will be able to meet next week. I would like to remind you that CBC/Radio-Canada has once again had a very questionable appointment, that of Robert Jeffery. Consequently, I would like to move the following motion:That the Committee, pursuant to Standing Order 111, invite Mr. Robert Jeffery, newly appointed director of the Board of Directors of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, to examine his qualifications and competence to perform the duties of the post to which he has been appointed, and that this televised two-hour meeting be held before Tuesday June 23rd 2015.KeithPelleyTerenceYoungOakville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71447PierreNantelPierre-NantelLongueuil—Pierre-BoucherNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/NantelPierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Nantel: (1720)[Translation]We are clearly putting forward this motion because it is appropriate to question that selection. I feel this government has once again shown negligence toward our public broadcaster, whose role is the same, whether we are talking about minority language communities across the country, about Quebec or about all Canadians, be they anglophones or francophones. As I saw strong parallels between those two situations, I used the opportunity to request a study on the matter.Thank you for your testimony. I now yield the floor to my colleagues.TerenceYoungOakvilleGordonBrownLeeds—Grenville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): (1555)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My first questions are about cancer screening. As Mr. Wheatley-Price said, when cancer is diagnosed, it is often no longer treatable. It is actually already difficult to treat or untreatable. So only the symptoms are treated.I have a question about screening programs. At what age and in what situations are screening tests recommended? Of course, those tests are recommended to smokers, but would it be a good idea to recommend them to welders and people who work in a more at-risk environment? Who should be the focus of the screening program? In an ideal world, of course, at what age would it be preferable to begin with those tests to make sure we identify as many people with lung cancer as possible?Cancer screeningLung cancerSmokingBenLobbHuron—BruceNatashaLeighl//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1600)[Translation]If a patient who underwent a CT scan for a specific problem had a reasonable risk of lung cancer, would they be advised to check their lungs at the same time?People undergo CT scans for various reasons. Since they are already at the hospital, could it be a good idea to scan their lungs if they have a reasonable risk of cancer? Cancer screeningComputerized axial tomographyLung cancerRobertNuttallPaulWheatley-Price//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1605)[Translation]I'm really sorry, but my time is up.PaulWheatley-PriceBenLobbHuron—Bruce//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis (Saint-Maurice—Champlain, Lib.): (1530)[Translation]Mr. Nicholls also had a baby this past weekend.MichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1530)[English]Thank you.MichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1530)[English]My second daughter.MichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1530)[English]Yes.MichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1530)[English]Yes, at the Lakeshore General Hospital.MichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1530)[Translation]I just mentioned it so we can congratulate him.MichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, NDP): (1530)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to welcome all the members.I also want to use this opportunity to say goodbye to my colleagues, as this may be one of the last meetings of this Parliament.Here is the motion I am putting forward:That the Committee undertake, with regard to the Women's Program of Status of Women Canada, a study of the Government of Canada programs that promote women's leadership in francophone minority communities (OLMCs) in Canada in order to inform the Committee members about the challenges francophone women face in attaining decision-making positions and positions of responsibility and that the Committee make recommendations to the government so that it can implement positive strategies that promote equality among women and men in decision-making structures.Mr. Chair, I would first like to discuss the considerable challenges at play. We know that the representation of women in networks of influential contacts is low. That includes chambers of commerce across the country. Traditionally and historically, men have held chamber of commerce positions. Those networks are extremely important.There are also other influential networks. Whether we are talking about hospital boards, boards of directors of banks or credit unions, or municipal, provincial or federal politics, the representation of women is still very low. If the trend continues and the situation remains the same, we might achieve equality around 2097. There will probably be some variables or disruptions that could push that 2097 target back even further if no concrete action is taken and no measures are put forward.We have to work on boosting women's confidence. Many women hesitate to apply for decision-making positions. That even includes boards of institutions, such as school boards. Yet they follow their children at the primary, secondary and post-secondary levels. They hesitate to step forward. Self-confidence must be developed and promoted.Moreover, it is difficult to reconcile work and family life. We know full well that it is very difficult for women with children to balance their work schedule and the school schedule. Schedules are not the same in the business world, in the world of boards of directors.That is why I am moving this motion today.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1530)[Translation]Absolutely.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1530)[Translation]Yes, it is.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1535)[Translation]I don't have a notice of motion, but it seems to me that we voted not to have a meeting next Thursday. We already voted on that.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1535)[English]I remember. Is it possible to vote now?Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsJamieNichollsVaudreuil-Soulanges//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1535)[English]It's votable now because it concerns the work of the committee.Committee businessAnne-MarieDayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35397JacquesGourdeJacques-GourdeLotbinière—Chutes-de-la-ChaudièreConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GourdeJacques_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Jacques Gourde (Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, CPC): (1535)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.The motion is very interesting, but had it been proposed earlier, we could have adopted it and worked on all these issues. I suggest that you save it for later. It would actually be a really good idea to adopt it and work on it when we reconvene, in the 42nd Parliament.We will vote against this motion because we don't have enough time left to undertake a study of this scope. I think we could easily hold six, seven or eight meetings on the topic. Thank you.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1535)[Translation]Mr. Chair, we are members of Parliament until the election. So we have plenty of time. The committee can keep sitting until the election. We have the time we need to do the work the motion calls for.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsJamieNichollsVaudreuil-Soulanges//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1535)[English]Nothing gets resolved until the election.Committee businessAnne-MarieDayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1535)[English]I just wanted to add that fact, that the committee itself doesn't dissolve until the election, so it is possible to still do studies.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1535)[English]The clerk has the floor.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsLiseSt-DenisSaint-Maurice—Champlain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1535)[Translation]I will abstain.Committee businessJamieNichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1535)[English]Sure. My motion was:That the Committee begin, before the House rises for the summer, a study to determine whether CBC/Radio-Canada has the financial, human and real property resources to adequately meet its obligations under the Official Languages Act and specific aspects of the Broadcasting Act; that it place special emphasis on official language minority communities, and that the study's meetings be televised.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1535)[Translation]I think the motion is self-explanatory. Ontario and Quebec have carried out a study. We saw that they were united and defended Radio-Canada.We are increasingly seeing that Radio-Canada is having difficulty fulfilling its mandate under the Official Languages Act. Our committee has four members from Quebec and four from Ontario. Sorry, Mr. Williamson, you are not part of that group. Mr. Chong, I forgot about you! You are the fifth member from Ontario.People from francophone minority communities have told us that they had access to programming in French, but that the coverage focused on Montreal. For instance, they were being given Montreal traffic reports! Yes, it's in French, and yes, they can hear French on the public airwaves, but their experiences in their own regions are not really being covered. I think it would be a good idea to start focusing more on stories from our regions. I find Radio-Canada's service in Quebec to be terrific, but the broadcaster has problems outside Quebec. I think francophones outside Quebec want to hear their own stories, their own voices in their regions.Mr. Gravelle, who is sitting next to me, lives in northern Ontario. I think that large region could be a source of many francophone stories broadcast on public television across the country. However, investments are needed for that. When cuts are made and the public broadcaster's funding is limited, the quality of services in regions outside Quebec drops off.I think the report and the study Quebec and Ontario produced together highlights the fact that we have a long way to go. I know there isn't much time left in this Parliament, but the committee will exist until the election is called. So we could hold one or two special meetings to carry out this study, so as to explore what we can do in coming years to promote the public broadcaster in the regions of the country where francophone communities want to hear their own voices.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1540)[Translation]Mr. Gravelle talked about the importance of francophone programs for small communities, and I fully concur. However, he said something that's not true, and I cannot believe it.I personally listen to the radio a lot when travelling to Ottawa. However, Radio-Canada does not talk about the Champlain Bridge until 9 a.m., but about the cities in the region, Saint-Joseph Boulevard and other Gatineau streets. Afterwards, they switch to the national network, and the programming content becomes more cultural. What you are saying is false, but aside from that, I completely agree that we must make sure Radio-Canada maintains its services to all the small remote francophone communities in the rest of Canada. However, I completely disagree—my apologies to Mr. Nicholls and others—with working this summer. This is a very important topic. It may actually be the most important issue we can tackle, and that is why we have to approach it very seriously. That cannot be done haphazardly in two meetings, in the middle of the summer, to piss off everyone else. Pardon my impolite language.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1545)[Translation]I want to point out that we have an excellent service in Gatineau, but Sudbury is a long way from Gatineau. I will give you a more concrete example of the town of Hawkesbury, which is very close to the Quebec-Ontario border, in a riding neighbouring mine. Although they have access to the “voices” from Gatineau and Montreal, people from that region don't have their own voice. That's a special case.I would like to have an anglophone radio station in my region and a francophone radio station in Hawkesbury and its surroundings, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell. I feel the Official Languages Act is all about the vitality of the language, across the country. The idea is to provide minority communities across Canada with a voice. In my own region, we do not view ourselves as Montrealers. We really are from Vaudreuil-Solanges, and there is a difference. I think the same goes for Hawkesbury residents, who do not consider themselves to be residents of the national capital region. Investments and strategic plans may be needed, but we won't have a study.I know that my colleagues work hard and believe that we can continue working until the election. If the Liberal Party is not interested in studying an issue that has to do with official languages, what can I say? Official languages have been neglected in the country for 30 years. I would like to know whether our Conservative colleagues have anything to say about that. I am sure they are also prepared to work. We will see.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1545)[Translation]I would like to talk about something we have not yet discussed.Many cuts have been made to Radio-Canada's radio service, totalling $150 million. Some 3,500 positions will be eliminated by 2020. As a result, the Téléjournal air time has been cut by 30 minutes.Francophone communities outside Quebec have access to national radio and television. That helps them preserve their language and meets their need to watch Radio-Canada programs that are not rebroadcasts or recycled reports as a result of the reduced air time. The public broadcaster must continue to provide adequate service to the communities that need it to preserve their language.In addition, anglophone communities outside Quebec that wish to learn French need Radio-Canada to speak quality French. A number of NDP members even said they learned French by tuning in to Radio-Canada. Radio-Canada's presence in communities ensures that the information provided on radio and television is neutral. So the small francophone communities outside Quebec cannot be deprived of the programming from the public broadcaster. Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35397JacquesGourdeJacques-GourdeLotbinière—Chutes-de-la-ChaudièreConservative CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GourdeJacques_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. Jacques Gourde: (1550)[Translation]I would like to say that an event will soon be held where these issues will probably be discussed. I am talking about the 20th Ministerial Conference on the Canadian Francophonie in which the Government of Canada and all the provinces will participate. These issues and all the services provided by all governments to francophone communities across Canada will be discussed there.After that ministerial conference, we will be in a better position to carry out an even more worthwhile study. At the moment, I think the study is premature. For the time being, we will vote against the motion.Committee businessMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary (St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NDP): (1115)[English]Mr. Zealand, my name is Ryan Cleary. I'm one of seven members of Parliament from Newfoundland and Labrador.There were a couple of things you talked about I'd like you to elaborate on. You mentioned stocked lakes. In terms of stocking lakes in the Yukon, how much of that is done, how many lakes? Who looks after that? Who's in charge?Hunting and sport fishingLakesYukonRobertChisholmDartmouth—Cole HarbourGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1115)[English]What is the budget for stocking those lakes? Which entity looks after the stocking? What are they stocked with?Hunting and sport fishingLakesYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1115)[English] The reason I ask questions about stocking and it always peaks my interest is because we don't stock our ponds and lakes in Newfoundland and Labrador. I've always wondered why we don't do that. With regard to the health of the different stocks, how is the health? Because of stocking, are the fish plentiful?Hunting and sport fishingLakesYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1115)[English]Wow. Who looks after the enforcement? First, is there a licence system? Do you have to get a licence to go out and get a trout or to fish at all? Who looks after the enforcement?Hunting and sport fishingLakesRainbow troutYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1120)[English]Is poaching a problem at all, or illegal retention of fish? Is that a problem?Hunting and sport fishingPoachingYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1120)[English]If you look at the stocked lakes versus the lakes or ponds—we call them ponds back home—are the water bodies that aren't stocked healthy as well?Hunting and sport fishingLakesPoachingYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1120)[English]The water is cold. Is that why the fish are slow-growing, obviously?Hunting and sport fishingLakesYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1120)[English]If I lived in the Yukon and I wanted to go fishing—and I would dearly love to catch one of those eight-pound lake trout—would I go to a stocked lake or would I go to one of your natural lakes?Hunting and sport fishingLakesRainbow troutYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1120)[English]You don't need a licence? I'm sorry, you may have answered that. Do you need a licence?Fisheries licencesHunting and sport fishingYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1120)[English]How much is that? How does that work?Hunting and sport fishingYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1120)[English]You don't need a guide.Hunting and sport fishingYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1120)[English]Is there a catch limit or can you fill your boots?Hunting and sport fishingYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1120)[English]Again, what is the value of the recreational fishery? Would you call it a recreational fishery? Would you call it a food fishery? I guess there would be a little bit of both, wouldn't there?Catch certificatesHunting and sport fishingYukonGordonZealandGordonZealand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1125)[English]Thank you very much.Hunting and sport fishingYukonGordonZealandRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe (Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, NDP): (1150)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.[Translation]I know that my NDP colleagues are in favour of my motion to examine the effects of the declining American Eel population, but I'd like to know whether all the committee members support the principle that a federal committee should examine the declining American Eel population in Canada.Committee businessEelHabitat conservationRoutine motionsRodneyWestonSaint JohnRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1150)[Translation]I'd just like to point out that it's not a practice we agree with.Committee businessEelHabitat conservationRoutine motionsRandyKampPitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—MissionRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1150)[English] Can we record the vote on going in camera, please?(Motion agreed to: yeas 5; nays 4)Committee businessDecisions in committeeEelHabitat conservationRecorded divisionsRoutine motionsRodneyWestonSaint JohnRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1200)[English]I would say one thing. I found you to be a very fair and good chair. You can't speak French, can you, Mr. Chair? That's too bad because if you did I think you would have made a fine Speaker. Unfortunately your party is not going to have a chance again, but thank you.Hunting and sport fishingKamp, RandyReferences to membersYukonRodneyWestonSaint JohnRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1225)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.[Translation]My thanks to the witnesses for joining us today. It's really nice to hear from you.I have several questions to ask, so I will try to be brief, while touching on all the topics I want to discuss.There is a lot of talk about the perennial issue of balance between basic research and applied research. As we know, we need applied research because it is a key component of science.I would like to take the time to quote David Robinson, executive director of the Canadian Association of University Teachers. He said the following:When it comes to supporting university-based research, the federal government has an unbalanced approach. [...] The government continues to miss the fact that real innovation and scientific advancements are driven by long-term basic research, not short-term market demands.Do you think more investments are needed in basic research? If so, how should those investments be made? I would also like you to talk about the role of education and basic research in stimulating innovation.I saw our guests smiling.Government assistanceInnovationResearch and researchersDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleJean-MarieDe Koninck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1230)[Translation]Could you tell us about some worthwhile models?I have here the Mitacs record for 2013. According to what you told us earlier, you are now working in collaboration with 60 universities. But those 60 universities probably all have their own way of doing things. I see that, in 2013, the Université Laval was not one of your partners. However, the INRS was. That is a good model, especially when it comes to basic and applied research.I was wondering whether the Université Laval is one of your partners now and, if not, why.At the INRS, professors and researchers are often veritable jacks of all trades, as are the institute's students I know. You used the expression “back and forth” earlier. That aspect could be inspirational and useful.InnovationInstitut national de la recherche scientifiqueInternshipsMitacsUniversité LavalRobertAnnanJean-MarieDe Koninck//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1230)[Translation]Okay.WalterDi BartolomeoDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse (Louis-Saint-Laurent, NDP): (1120)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Trost, we will probably have a sense of déjà vu. I am going to ask you some questions that were raised last time you appeared, but I want to put them to you again because I think it's important to see what we can do to improve certain aspects of your proposal.On our side, we work very hard to ensure that, to the extent possible, there is at least one woman and one francophone representative on each committee. Even if there are only three members per committee, we always try to maintain a diversified representation. I clearly represent francophones, women and youth, all at the same time, but it can work.Do you think it's possible to improve representation, even with the system for electing committee chairs?Election of the Chair and Vice-ChairsM-431Preferential voting systemJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—LondonBradTrostSaskatoon—Humboldt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1120)[Translation]That's interesting.I want to come back to an issue Mr. Lukiwski raised earlier. It is still important to try to plan what should be done. We talked earlier about decision making. We are starting with the premise that committees are always masters of their agenda and of what they want to do. I still have some reservations regarding the three-strike rule you proposed earlier. We need to find a process that would both help the committee maintain its independence and help the House make decisions.How could we reconcile those two aspects if a committee chair elected by the whole House lost the committee's confidence?Election of the Chair and Vice-ChairsM-431Preferential voting systemBradTrostSaskatoon—HumboldtBradTrostSaskatoon—Humboldt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1125)[Translation]My last question is much more general.What is the main advantage of your proposal compared with the current system? Is there a major problem with the current system you are trying to solve through that election? What is the proposal's main advantage?Election of the Chair and Vice-ChairsM-431Preferential voting systemBradTrostSaskatoon—HumboldtBradTrostSaskatoon—Humboldt//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1225)[English]I did mention in my farewell speech last week how much I enjoyed working on this committee. I was lucky enough to be named on the procedure and house affairs committee a few weeks after I was elected for the first time. I was lucky enough to spend my whole mandate here. It's truly an honour, because when I hear some of my colleagues talking about their committees and how it's difficult sometimes and how sometimes they just don't like it or something, I think I'm so lucky to have you as my chair, and all of my colleagues. Really, it was so interesting, and it was always one of my favourite parts of the week, coming here and being able to do some really good work with all of you. I really hope I'm able to work with you again later. It was really wonderful. I want to thank the clerk and the researcher too, because I don't think this committee could work as well as it does if it weren't for you all. Thank you.Some hon. members: Hear, hear!Committee businessPreston, JoeReferences to membersJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—LondonJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—London//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0920)[English]Watch out.Voices: Oh, oh!MeganLeslieHalifaxMeganLeslieHalifax//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette (Drummond, NDP): (0935)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I represent the riding of Drummond, which is located in the Central Quebec region and has many wetland areas. Although the region is rich in wetlands, Quebec as a whole, and especially southern Quebec, is really losing ground year after year in terms of wetland conservation.Is that also the case across Canada in general and in southern Canada in particular?Mr. Fortune, would you like to answer?Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionPrivate sectorWetlandsHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaJamesFortune//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0935)[Translation]In other words, the situation is the same as in Quebec and in my region, Central Quebec, where we are losing many of our wetland areas. That is a major concern for my region, which is rural, although it has a city at its centreYou talked about all the environmental benefits associated with wetlands. You are working very hard to raise money from the private sector, and you are doing an excellent job. As we know, your organization is exemplary, but it does not seem to be enough, despite all the efforts you are making when it comes to getting the private sector involved on a voluntary basis.Ms. Leslie asked you what more could be done in terms of investment or legislation to conserve the wetlands, which, despite your significant efforts, continue to disappear.Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionPrivate sectorWetlandsJamesFortuneJamesFortune//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0935)[Translation]What could the federal government do to support you?Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionPrivate sectorWetlandsJamesFortuneJamesFortune//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0935)[Translation]Thank you.Mr. Butler, one of the things you talked about was the impact of climate change on insurance. You also talked about energy efficiency. Some of your work focuses on energy and the built environment. In the past, the federal program called ecoENERGY Retrofit - Homes enabled people to make an effort in energy efficiency.Are you familiar with that program? Did you or the people you are helping use it?Associations, institutions and organizationsecoENERGY Retrofit - HomesEnvironmental protectionPrivate sectorJamesFortuneMarkButler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0940)[Translation]Very well. You did not really use the program, but you know what it was all about. It provided Canadian families with support in their fight against climate change.Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionPrivate sectorMarkButlerHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—Conestoga//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0940)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.HaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—Conestoga//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai (Brossard—La Prairie, NDP)): (1530)[Translation]Good afternoon, esteemed colleagues.Today, from 3:30 p.m to 4:30 p.m, pursuant to Standing Order 108, the committee will hold a briefing with officials from the Department of Transport on the implementation of the recommendations in chapter 7 of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditor General of Canada.We are hearing from department officials Laureen Kinney, Brigitte Diogo and Nicole Girard. I believe you have a brief presentation to make, which will be followed by a question period.Please proceed.Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportRail transport safetyLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1540)[Translation]Thank you very much, Ms. Kinney.Mr. Sullivan, the floor is yours for seven minutes.LaureenKinneyMikeSullivanYork South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1545)[English]Mr. Sullivan.JeffWatsonEssexMikeSullivanYork South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1545)[English]I'll let Mr. Sullivan continue his question.MikeSullivanYork South—WestonLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1550)[English] You have one minute.LaureenKinneyMikeSullivanYork South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1550)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Sullivan and Ms. Kinney.Mr. Dion, you now have the floor for seven minutes.LaureenKinneyStéphaneDionHon.Saint-Laurent—Cartierville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion (Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, Lib.): (1550)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to thank my colleagues for welcoming me to this committee.[English]Thank you so much. I am replacing Mr. McGuinty, who had urgent family reasons not to be here.[Translation]I want to welcome the witnesses appearing before us today.I have a question about the Administrative Monetary Penalty Regulations and about some other regulations.Would you say that your ability to conduct audits has improved since the 2013 report? Are you really getting results?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportPenaltiesQuality controlRail transport safetyHoangMaiBrossard—La PrairieLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1550)[English]He was concerned about the lack of enforcement, as I read in his report. For enforcement, companies must have an obligation to send you the information. Otherwise, he said, it's not very effective. Is this enforcement really enhanced?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportRail transport safetyLaureenKinneyLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1555)[Translation]Can I ask you for a concrete example? I am thinking of VIA Rail because it's a company I really like. VIA Rail was not audited between 2010 and 2013. Have any audits been carried out since 2013?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportQuality controlRail transport safetyVIA Rail Canada Inc.LaureenKinneyLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1555)[Translation]So an audit has been carried out since 2013. I am not talking about a simple inspection, but an actual audit.Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportQuality controlRail transport safetyLaureenKinneyBrigitteDiogo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1555)[Translation]Thank you.The statistics on the number of inspectors seem a bit worrisome to me. Your deputy minister, Louis Lévesque, also used to be my deputy minister. Could you say hello to him for me? I admire him very much.He testified before this committee on March 10, 2015. I was not in attendance, but I read the transcript. He said: “On the transportation of dangerous goods and rail safety, we currently have, as of the end of December, 117 rail safety oversight personnel...”. I believe our chair said that there were 116 of them when the Lac-Mégantic incident happened. That's only one more employee. The statistic is clear, as it came from the deputy minister. You understand why we are worried.What happened in Lac-Mégantic was a huge disaster, and 47 lives were wiped out. Have all the financial costs of that disaster been estimated, including the cost of cleanup and rebuilding? Can a figure be put on it?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportRail transport safetyBrigitteDiogoLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1555)[English]In other countries when a catastrophe happens they are able to put a number on it. Is there somebody responsible for assessing the amount of money that it represents?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportRail transport safetyLaureenKinneyLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1555)[English]When I went to Fukushima, there was an assessment done. It was questionable, but at least they had the magnitude. I wonder if this committee has investigated.... Somebody is responsible for assessing the amount of money it represents. It's important for this country to know.[Translation]It is massive, after all. I don't know whether this is true, but according to the deputy minister, one inspector has been added. However, the Auditor General has noted many shortcomings and asked that the regulations be strengthened. You are telling us that you have strengthened the regulations, but that you need resources to implement them. In this case, one of the indicators is definitely the number of inspectors. According to the deputy minister, one inspector has been added since 2013.Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportInspections and inspectorsRail transport safetyLaureenKinneyLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1555)[English] I don't understand why the deputy was so clear, yet today you say it is very complicated. I'm a bit lost because it's essential to know how many inspectors we have. Did you say you increased by 24?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportInspections and inspectorsRail transport safetyLaureenKinneyLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1555)[English]Twenty, so we are not at 117. We are at what then?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportRail transport safetyLaureenKinneyLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1600)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Dion. Unfortunately, your time is up.Thank you, Ms. Kinney.I now give the floor to Mr. Watson for seven minutes.LaureenKinneyJeffWatsonEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1605)[English]Thank you.JeffWatsonEssexBrigitteDiogo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1605)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Watson.Mr. Komarnicki, go ahead for for seven minutes.BrigitteDiogoEdKomarnickiSouris—Moose Mountain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1615)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Komarnicki. Your time is up.If my colleagues will accept this, I'll take the next round, even though I'm the chair. No one objects? Okay.Just to follow up on what Mr. Komarnicki raised about reports for employees, you mentioned, Ms. Kinney, that employees are able to report to Transport Canada. Has a 1-800 number been set up so that employees know where to call? I think that was raised before. If not, where are we at?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportRail transport safetyWhistle blowingLaureenKinneyLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1615)[Translation]Thank you very much.Earlier, Mr. Watson asked a question about administrative penalties, which only came into force in April 2015.Can you tell us whether those penalties, which were a long time coming, will be made public? Mr. Watson also talked about the process as a whole. Will it be made public?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportPenaltiesRail transport safetyLaureenKinneyLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1615)[Translation]If the penalty amount is published initially and then—correct me if I'm wrong—the Minister of Transport uses his power to reduce the amount, will it be published?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportRail transport safetyBrigitteDiogoBrigitteDiogo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1615)[Translation]Okay. If I understand correctly, once a penalty is issued, an officer can later change the amount.Would that change be made public?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportPenaltiesRail transport safetyBrigitteDiogoBrigitteDiogo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1615)[Translation]You said that, at Transport Canada, you assessed risk based on the necessary inspectors or auditors according to the changes.Do you think the increase in the transportation of dangerous goods—more specifically oil—means that Transport Canada needs more inspectors or a bigger budget?Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportHazardous substances and hazardous productsInspections and inspectorsPetroleumRail transport safetyBrigitteDiogoLaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1620)[Translation]Thank you, Ms. Kinney.I have used up my time. I now give the floor to Mr. Watson, for five minutes.LaureenKinneyJeffWatsonEssex//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1625)[English]Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Watson.We still have a bit of time before the end of this meeting, so maybe we will have a short question from Mr. Sullivan, then another short question from the Conservatives, if we have time.So a very short question.Chapter 7, Oversight of Rail Safety Transport Canada of the Fall 2013 Report of the Auditior General of CanadaDepartment of TransportRail transport safetyJeffWatsonEssexMikeSullivanYork South—Weston//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1625)[English]Sorry, Mr. Sullivan, you don't have time.Mr. Komarnicki, the last question.BrigitteDiogoEdKomarnickiSouris—Moose Mountain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Mr. Hoang Mai): (1625)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Komarnicki. I'd like to thank the officials from Transport Canada for coming here to testify and to give us information, and also for the work that they have been doing. Thank you very much.We will suspend.[Proceedings continue in camera]LaureenKinney//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette (Drummond, NDP): (1000)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to go back to Mr. McLean.In my riding of Drummond, the CRECQ, the Conseil régional de l’environnement du Centre-du-Québec, the regional environmental council, received funds from the Habitat Stewardship Program for Species at Risk for two endangered species, the Northern spring salamander and the wood turtle.For some years now we have observed that there are some big issues with the Endangered Species Act. The government had to go to court for the sage grouse and the orca in British Colombia. Currently it is also in court for the striped chorus frog in Quebec. This problem is very serious and that is why the Habitat Stewardship Program for Species at Risk is so important; we have benefited from it at various times in Drummondville and in the Centre-du-Québec region.Currently, is the Habitat Stewardship Program an annual program? Can people submit a three-year project, or something similar?I think that would have to be renewed every year. Is that the case?Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionGovernment assistanceHabitat Stewardship Program for Species at RiskPrivate sectorHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaRobertMcLean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1000)[Translation]If I understand correctly, a project funded through the Habitat Stewardship Program can be subsidized for three years. Is that correct?I think that normally it is one year at a time. You have to obtain a renewal for a second year, and so on.Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionGovernment assistanceHabitat Stewardship Program for Species at RiskPrivate sectorRobertMcLeanRobertMcLean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1000)[Translation]Fine.I saw on the Environment Canada website that there had been a change in 2014-2015. I am still talking about the Habitat Stewardship Program for Species at Risk. That is the one we turned to in Drummond. My fellow citizens are really concerned, among other things, by the situation of the wood turtle which is an endangered species.This is what the website says:Starting in 2014-2015, the Prevention Stream focuses on the very same results as the Species at Risk Stream, but with a focus on species of interest beyond those listed under Schedule 1 of SARA.So there has been a change in the prevention aspect. Can you explain why this change was made for 2014-2015?Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionPrivate sectorRobertMcLeanColinCarrieOshawa//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1000)[Translation]As everyone knows, the Habitat Stewardship Program is a shared-cost program. Every dollar from the Stewardship Program must be matched with a dollar from private funds or organizations. The study we are doing currently is precisely on that.Mr. McLean talked about this program in the beginning of his presentation. I am asking him questions because the community in my riding of Drummond participates in the Habitat Stewardship Program for Species at Risk, and there have been changes. In what way are these changes important? Are they going to help the companies, enterprises and organizations in Drummond to use that program?I will repeat my question: what is the explanation behind the changes made to the Habitat Stewardship Program for Species at Risk for 2014-2015?Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionHabitat Stewardship Program for Species at RiskPrivate sectorHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaRobertMcLean//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1785IrwinCotlerHon.Irwin-CotlerMount RoyalLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CotlerIrwin_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Irwin Cotler (Mount Royal, Lib.): (1345)[English]I'd like to begin, Justice Kirby, if I may, not only by commending you for your testimony today and your comprehensive report, but really also for a lifetime of commitment to human rights and the rule of law.In your commission's final report, in which you document the wide array of crimes against humanity, you conclude by saying that the gravity, scale, and nature of these violations reveal a state that does not have any parallel in the contemporary world.Now this is, as you pointed out clearly, an R2P situation, but if it is an R2P situation, the question arises how can the international community now on the 10th anniversary of R2P best give expression to this imperative in the case of North Korea.Of course, a reference by the UN Security Council to the ICC would be the best example, and it's always possible this may happen, but I'm not unmindful of the fact that with regard to Syria we were prevented from invoking the R2P there because China and Russia again and again exercised their veto.My question is what can the international community do either to persuade China and Russia, or if that does not work, other initiatives that we might take, and in particular how may Canadian parliamentarians assist in this regard?ChinaCivil and human rightsInternational cooperationNorth KoreaRussiaScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and AddingtonMichaelKirbyHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71430Marc-AndréMorinMarc-André-MorinLaurentides—LabelleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarcAndré_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Marc-André Morin (Laurentides—Labelle, NDP): (1400)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you for joining us, Mr. Kirby.I don't know whether you have a lot of information on the situation in North Korea, on what is happening inside the country. I believe that repression always contains an economic aspect. For instance, it is easy to see that in the example of the Holocaust, when Germany's entire economy was tied in with the concentration camp activities. Moreover, the mass murder of millions of Jews in Europe was a source of revenue and funded their own repression.According to what I have heard, in North Korea, there is a new privileged class of North Koreans who work in factories on the border that are often controlled by large international companies. The people who work there have absolutely amazing lifestyles compared to ordinary North Koreans who are starving. The source of the regime's collapse is probably the creation of a privileged class of North Koreans who are exploiting their peers. In addition, the funding mostly comes from factories operated by South Korean or Chinese companies.What are your thoughts on that?Civil and human rightsCommunismForeign capitalNorth KoreaScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and AddingtonMichaelKirbyHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71430Marc-AndréMorinMarc-André-MorinLaurentides—LabelleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarcAndré_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Marc-André Morin: (1405)[Translation]A question came to me while you were talking.If we see that there are indeed sources that supply the regime with capital, shouldn't we take some measures—for example, when we sign agreements with countries—to ensure that Canada is not doing business with companies that use slavery, in one way or another?Shouldn't we impose penalties against companies or countries that take advantage of people working in slave labour conditions? Could that not be a way to deal with it?Civil and human rightsEconomic sanctionsNorth KoreaWorking hours, terms and conditionsMichaelKirbyHon.MichaelKirbyHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc (LaSalle—Émard, NDP): (0910)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would also like to thank the witnesses for their presentations and for the extremely important initiatives they discussed with us.Ms. Patterson, you said that a partner was missing for all of these initiatives, that they were often of rather short duration, and that there were no long-term incentives.Mr. Zilberbrant, you gave the example of a park in which you used a rather innovative type of concrete, if I understood correctly.Do you think that in the long term, the federal government could see to it that the population and entrepreneurs are made more aware of these materials that are particularly adapted to climate change, since they contribute to reducing greenhouse gases?Do you think the federal government could do something in that respect?Associations, institutions and organizationsBuilding and construction industryEnvironmental protectionFederal governmentPrivate sectorHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaGregZilberbrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (0915)[Translation]You talked about incentives, but how could the federal government provide those?I'm not talking here about a brief program or project that would disappear after two or three years, but about a more official initiative centred on this type of product. If I understand correctly, this could reduce the risk of flooding, or the overflow of municipal wastewaters. If there were a certification or an incentive, this could encourage entrepreneurs to use the product.Associations, institutions and organizationsBuilding and construction industryEnvironmental protectionFederal governmentPrivate sectorSetting of standardsGregZilberbrantGregZilberbrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (0915)[Translation]That is a very good idea. The federal government has an enormous number of buildings, enormous infrastructure. It could as you said be one of the first users. It could lead by example by adopting this type of technology, which is really focused on adapting to climate change. I think that is interesting.In addition, there is the Quebec Fonds vert, the Green Fund. That plan provides funds to companies and industries. It applies to industries at this time. Could you tell me how the Green Fund allows companies to innovate while lowering their energy costs and costs of production? How could a bill, or a program like the Quebec Green Fund, be an incentive for companies to innovate, in partnership with government?Associations, institutions and organizationsEnergy conservationEnvironmental protectionInnovationPrivate sectorGregZilberbrantGregZilberbrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71424HélèneLeBlancHélène-LeBlancLaSalle—ÉmardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LeBlancHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène LeBlanc: (0920)[Translation]Very well, thank you very much.Ms. Patterson...Is that all?GregZilberbrantHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—Conestoga//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1785IrwinCotlerHon.Irwin-CotlerMount RoyalLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CotlerIrwin_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Irwin Cotler (Mount Royal, Lib.): (1350)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chairman.I also want to commend the witnesses for their informed and graphic testimony on matters relating to the assault on fundamental freedoms, on trade union rights, and not only political prisoners but also the plight of those who are political prisoners in terms of torture, forced confessions, and the like.As was mentioned as well, you've characterized the Vietnam government as being a totalitarian government, as being a dictatorial regime, which leads to my question then. How can international pressure be effective on a totalitarian regime using, for example, the fundamental freedoms issue that you mentioned, freedom of speech, press, assembly and association? And I have a specific question I would put to Dieu Cay and that is how can that be effective in securing the release from prison of your colleague, Ta Phong Tan, who is now, as you mentioned, on a hunger strike? Those are my two questions.Civil and human rightsInternational relationsTrans-Pacific PartnershipVietnamScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and AddingtonThangNguyen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1785IrwinCotlerHon.Irwin-CotlerMount RoyalLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CotlerIrwin_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Irwin Cotler: (1355)[English]Thank you.DieuCayScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71407TyroneBenskinTyrone-BenskinJeanne-Le BerNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BenskinTyrone_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tyrone Benskin (Jeanne-Le Ber, NDP): (1400)[English]Thank you, and please let me add my voice welcoming you back. Thank you, Mr. Dieu Cay, for your very in-depth and moving testimony. My question is for you. We have heard a number of witnesses speaking to the hunger strikes that are either ongoing now or that people engaged in before, you and a gentleman that we had for previous testimony, your friend who is undergoing a hunger strike at this moment. To me, it seems a very internal thing, because we don't hear about it unless individuals like you come to us.I guess that's where the bloggers come in. Is there an estimate of how many bloggers are dedicated to the human rights situation in Vietnam and how many of those might be in Vietnam at this point?Blogs and microblogsCivil and human rightsVietnamScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and AddingtonDieuCay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, NDP): (1150)[Translation]I just wanted to say that we introduced an opposition day motion in February seeking the exact measures proposed here. So we're very glad that the government has finally listened to reason and taken the necessary steps to help small businesses. We are pleased with the direction the government has taken and proud of our efforts to get to this point. Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1150)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I'd like a recorded division please.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1205)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.We support the principle behind TFSAs. We've made that clear numerous times in the past. But raising the limit to nearly double is a problem because it does not adequately address a number of issues. Mr. Brison just described one of them. Mr. Jovanovic, you've read the Parliamentary Budget Officer's report on the matter. Something else in the report was also raised in other studies. The purpose of a TFSA is to encourage people to save, a bit like an RRSP. But the TFSA isn't really leading to any new savings. Small investors are using the vehicle a bit like they would an RRSP. But, by and large, those who are maxing out their contributions aren't putting away additional savings. They are merely moving their savings. The TFSA actually provides a more favourable tax environment in terms of protecting savings in the future and ensuring growth. Have you considered the points raised by the Parliamentary Budget Officer, among others, and looked at how the TFSA has affected people's saving habits? Similarly, have you considered the impact of raising the limit from $5,500 to $10,000?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsTax Free Savings AccountTax reliefJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1210)[Translation]The benefits you just listed are the very reasons why we don't oppose the principle behind TFSAs. You talked about optimal conditions, but the issue is where should the limit be to ensure that optimal performance. At what point does the TFSA stop being an instrument that allows for maximum benefit and the optimal use of resources? At what point does it become an appealing tax shelter vehicle? And when I say tax shelter, I'm not referring to savings but, rather, the transfer of savings. That's what we are concerned about. Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1215)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.We are coming to the oft-discussed matter of income splitting, which the Conservatives have renamed the family tax cut credit, as a marketing ploy. The measure has been widely documented as a tax benefit that will help very few people, just 15% of Canadian households. The other 85% will get nothing out of it. Of the multitude of measures the government is introducing, it's obviously important to distinguish between income splitting and the enhanced universal child care benefit. They are two separate benefits and the government should have treated them as such. For its own vote-getting reasons, in my opinion, the government opted to group them together and to try to convince Canadians that we were against the whole set of measures, which is not at all the case. I'm not quite sure what else we can possibly ask you about income splitting, as this division has probably been the most studied. Be that as it may, there is no doubt that we will stick to our previously held position and vote against this measure.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1220)[Translation]As I mentioned previously, we are strongly opposed to income splitting for all of the economic reasons that have been mentioned. However, we support enhancing the universal child care benefit, even though the government regrettably chose not to be transparent about the fact that it eliminated the child tax credit to fund the bulk of the improved benefit. We will, of course, support the enhanced universal child care benefit, even though it should be renamed given that it's for children between the ages of 6 and 17. It can hardly continue to be called a universal child care benefit when it's for children older than 6. The measure would be combined with the NDP's proposed $15-a-day national child-care program. The plan would be negotiated with the provinces, with Quebec having the right to opt out given that it already has a program in place. For these reasons, we intend to support the enhanced universal child care benefit, provided for in clauses 35 to 40.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresChild care allowanceClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1250)[English] That's no problem.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1250)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.What I'm about to say probably won't come as much of a surprise since I've complained about this in relation to previous omnibus budget bills. Unfortunately, these kinds of legislative changes are buried in a massive bill, the study of which falls on the shoulders of the Standing Committee on Finance. I am even more outraged by the fact that when I sat on the Standing Committee of Industry, Science and Technology throughout all of 2014, we had to engage in a bogus study of parts of an omnibus budget bill that made amendments to the same pieces of legislation. We heard from witnesses with major concerns, including the Law Society of Upper Canada. Mr. Chair, it's quite shocking that, this morning, we are hearing from just a single witness who is directly affected by the amendment. We have, unfortunately, not heard any opposing points of view. The witness did, however, make a very interesting point, and I'm going to ask our public officials a question about it. This morning, a cornerstone of solicitor-client privilege between patent or trademark agents and their clients was tied to what the witness referred to as a large number of decisions where that privilege would not apply. I was a bit taken aback. I assumed that the judges had made an informed decision. That was something I asked the witness about this morning. His view was that the evidence may not have been sufficient for solicitor-client privilege to apply to the communications between the agents and their clients. I find it very disturbing that amendments are being made without the benefit of other opinions or an analysis of the consequences. It's akin to a vote of non-confidence in the bench. Judges are being contradicted for the wrong reasons. Basically, I'd like to know what led the government to believe that the judges were wrong or that solicitor-client privilege had not been granted for the right reasons. Could you please explain that to me?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducDenisMartel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1255)[Translation]Very well. We aren't necessarily against the principle of extending the privilege, but the relevant committee should have had the opportunity to participate in a genuine debate on the matter. My other concern has to do with the consultations that were conducted prior. The committee received a letter from an organization by the name of The Advocates' Society, according to whom, not all potential stakeholders were asked to participate in the consultation process, mainly law societies. I'd like you to explain how those much talked-about consultations were handled by Industry Canada.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsDenisMartelDenisMartel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1255)[Translation] Are there plans to make any other amendments to the act or other related acts? In fact, the Standing Committee on Finance may have to study them if, heaven forbid, we end up with another majority Conservative government. Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsDenisMartelDenisMartel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1300)[Translation]I would just like to end by saying that the amendments being made to these three significant pieces of legislation should really have been subject to a comprehensive decision-making process involving the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology. I cannot stress that enough. This is a breakdown or, rather, a deliberate failure to follow the basic legislative process, as the Canadian Bar Association pointed out in describing omnibus bills. That is why we are not going to support these provisions.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsDenisMartelJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1305)[Translation]I want to comment on the changes to the Patent Act, specifically. You will recall, Mr. Chair, that, in the past, the NDP has tried to make the government listen to reason by calling on it to split omnibus budget bills. Obviously, the government has systematically refused that request, flying in the face of the conditions needed to put the public interest first. I just wanted to make perfectly clear how appalling that is. Thank you.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1310)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Everyone will recall that the previous amendments to the Trade-marks Act, further to the last omnibus bill, faced strong opposition from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, as well as a large swath of Canada's private sector. It was quite a problem. Clearly, they were condemning a process that resulted in amendments that weren't necessarily in their best interest at the time or, at the very least, the fact that an in-depth study had not been done. The amendments before us could easily be detrimental to Canadian business. A huge number of economic interests come into play when trademarks are involved. Significant amounts of money are at stake. Amending these provisions without first giving the committee directly responsible an opportunity to conduct a detailed study could very well end up costing us dearly. Above all, these changes could jeopardize the survival of countless businesses by putting them at a competitive disadvantage, especially small businesses. In the new economy, holding a trademark without overly easy challenges from abroad is probably one of the biggest concerns of small businesses. As in the case of the other acts being amended, I condemn the process. The Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology should have had the opportunity to study the amendments from top to bottom. As was the case in the previous omnibus bills, our party's calls to split the legislation out into sections for further study were flatly rejected without serious consideration by the government. I just wanted to point that out. Thank you.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1315)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's very kind of you to let me speak.As you know, the NDP voted against the Green Party of Canada's proposed amendments quite simply because we support the principle of extending the term of protection from 50 to 70 years.But, on Monday, I was at the ceremony honouring former parliamentarians and had the tremendous pleasure of hearing a timeless classic by Raymond Lévesque, who at the age of 86, can barely sing his greatest hits anymore. And one of those greatest hits, which is one of the best Quebec songs of all time, if not the best, is “Quand les hommes vivront d'amour”. Similarly, other major artists, composers and authors will lose the ability to perform or promote their works. Unfortunately, these proposals simply amount to helping those who record their works and record companies. We would have liked to see this protection extend to authors and composers as well. That leads me to underscore how shameful it is that these two provisions weren't subject to adequate scrutiny by the appropriate committee, rather than the Standing Committee on Finance. Be that as it may, we support the two provisions because they improve upon the existing situation, at least. Nevertheless, it's necessary to go further and, above all, to extend this protection to those who are responsible for composing the works that make up our venerable audio and theatrical heritage. Thank you. Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1330)[Translation]Mr. Chair, point of order.My apologies, Mr. Rankin. Unfortunately, the French translation isn't coming in. I'm not sure where the problem is.Now it's back. Thank you.MurrayRankinVictoriaMurrayRankinVictoria//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1530)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I'd like a recorded division.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1530)[English]Just to clause 89.(Clause 89 agreed to: yeas 6; nays 3)(Clauses 90 and 91 agreed to)(On clause 92)Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeeGovernment billsRecorded divisionsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1540)[Translation]I will be brief, Mr. Chair.We understand why the Green Party has proposed this amendment. However, we believe that there is an immediate and pressing need to be able to amend and repair the review process so as to ensure that projects, such as natural gas projects, will be studied thoroughly and considered on their merit.This is not a matter of the duration of licenses, but of whether an export license should in fact be granted to a project. A more thorough process in the future would help resolve this issue.We will vote in favour of the amendment.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1550)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I would like a recorded vote.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1555)[Translation]I would like to discuss all the clauses, up to clause 152, including the two previous ones we have already voted on.The argument is the same one we used when the government introduced its motion in the House, but what is happening with the security services is clearly unacceptable to us. We were not opposed to a consolidation of services, especially considering what happened on October 22. However, there are obviously some privileges associated with this House and the Senate. It was provided that the authority of the House of Commons and Senate security guards would always be subject to the authority of Parliament and its two Houses. Since the RCMP now reports directly to the government and no longer directly to Parliament, we feel that this is a significant departure from what used to be the responsibility of those of two Parliamentary services.Therefore, we cannot accept this proposal. It would have been completely acceptable for the three bodies, including the RCMP, to work together, but under the authority of the House and the Senate.This is not a superficial provision. It really changes the essence of what used to be separate bodies and responsibilities. Responsibilities are not trivial things. They stem from the essence and the role of Parliament, and from its role in terms of protection. Let's remember that the Parliament security officer bodies—of the Senate and the House of Commons—were created at the same time as the RCMP. However, their roles have been kept separate for constitutional reasons and because of Parliamentary privilege. That is why we cannot support the government's proposal.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1555)[English]I would just say this.[Translation]I have much respect for what my colleague, Mr. Caron, had to say.I would simply like to add that it is especially shocking to see these legislative amendments being proposed in an omnibus bill, as they deserve a separate debate.I don't know whether all my colleagues have read the report of the Ontario Provincial Police, but it is very troubling to see a fast-track process to amend this regime, while the report has raised more questions than it has provided answers regarding the RCMP's operational capacity in terms of coordination. We are blindly rushing into a new regime.I would not add anything to what Mr. Caron said because it was spot on. We mustn't forget our privileges as parliamentarians, either. That's probably the most important aspect being denied. Thank you very much.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1600)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.As you may have noticed during the previous vote, I was so eager to speak in favour of the government measure that I showed enthusiasm I absolutely didn't have regarding the protection services of the two Houses.That said, without praising the government's position, it is always a pleasure for the NDP to support a measure that will encourage training and access to employment for all Canadians. That is why we support this measure, but it doesn't mean that we support the government's approach regarding the employment insurance system. Unfortunately, the Conservative government did not hesitate to repeatedly restrict access to employment insurance, which is insurance only in name. The system is nothing more than a facade. It is no longer really insurance because it no longer covers everyone who loses their job.While we wait for an NDP government to re-establish much broader accessibility, we're happy to support both employment insurance recipients and their future employers by providing the employers with a better trained labour force, and to help people get the jobs they need to live with dignity.Thank you.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1615)[Translation]I would like to discuss all the clauses amending the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. I will be very brief.I have been a member of the House of Commons for four years, but I am definitely not tired of repeating that a bill of this nature does not belong in an omnibus bill on the budget. It is really appalling.Mr. Chair, by working hard on the appropriate committee, we probably would have been able to come to an agreement with the government on many aspects concerning this bill. I am personally very uncomfortable with its speedy passage when we have not even been able to have an independent and comprehensive review with the representatives of our institutions. That is why I will vote against it. This deserves a societal debate. That should have been done, but, as usual, the government shied away from it.Thank you.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1620)[Translation]May I ask a question to clarify the amendment?JamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1620)[Translation]I am trying to understand why “at any one time” was included.[English]In English what does “at any one time” mean legally, and why was this added? I'm just curious.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducBruceHyerThunder Bay—Superior North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1620)[Translation]I wanted to know why the amendment includes “at any one time”. [English]Why was “at any one time” added? What does it mean exactly in your sense?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsBruceHyerThunder Bay—Superior NorthBruceHyerThunder Bay—Superior North//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1620)[Translation]Thank you.BruceHyerThunder Bay—Superior NorthJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1625)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be brief.Thanks to amendment NDP-9, the minimum benefit would help keep our veterans above the line of poverty. Without sufficient benefits, the situation of our women and men who have bravely served our country could worsen.Amendment NDP-10 would help increase the retirement income security benefit. In the bill, that benefit actually represents 70% of the money Veterans Affairs Canada receives in financial benefits before the age of 65. The amendment would bring it up to 100%. So we would ensure the financial stability of our veterans as they age.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1630)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I'm disappointed by your decision, but I understand it. I hope my colleagues from across the table have listened carefully and will use our proposal themselves. We, the NDP, actually love having our ideas stolen. We have no objection to that.The goal of amendment NDP-11 is to have the benefits indexed based on the consumer price index once a year. It is one thing for the benefits to be predictable, but it is another for them to follow the cost of living index. That would ensure that the benefits would not decrease over time and as the cost of living index increases. After all, that is a major concern for our veterans. They would not have to worry about increases in the price of their rent, groceries or gas if the benefits they are entitled to increase.Thank you.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1630)[Translation]I would still like to quickly respond to these remarks.It's a pity. Ultimately, the members of the governing party and we agree on the fact that it's important to index benefits based on inflation. However, instead of establishing an automatic mechanism that in no way prevents the minister from making improvements or proposing additional enhancements, decisions will be made arbitrarily by the executive. That's really too bad.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1640)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I think that the clerk told you that we have made some changes to the amendment. The changes are very simple. In both the French and the English versions, we would remove from the bill the words “immédiatement” and “immediately”. In the French version of the amendment, since the word “immédiatement” was not included, we are quoting paragraph 44.1(1)(c) in its entirety. Without the word “immédiatement”, here is what we have: “... ont entraîné une déficience physique ou psychologique grave et une détéroration importante de sa qualité de vie.” Is that clear for everyone?Mr. Chair, fortunately, psychological issues have become increasingly less taboo in our society. That is nevertheless still a serious problem for many of our veterans. When the criteria are too restrictive or there is no explicit provision in the legislation, many veterans may lose their right to the proper treatment they should receive.We have heard testimony where veterans' advocates feared that the new compensation would help only a small number of veterans with physical, but not psychological injuries. Those with psychological problems are excluded through things like overly limiting criteria such as that of a sudden and single incident that caused a severe impairment and interference in their quality of life. Limiting that access will lead to people who truly need support unfortunately not receiving the help they require. That is why I encourage all my colleagues to support this amendment.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1645)[Translation]This is similar to what I did for the previous amendment. Amendment 13 is related to amendment 14, and its purpose is to really give family caregivers the means to provide dignified support to veterans with significant struggles. I hope that the members of the governing party will consider this suggestion. I have to admit that I think the government's proposal is a positive first step. However, we are reaching out to the government to take another step. We should establish a real system to support all veterans and especially to help family caregivers and ensure that the system is cohesive and strong enough, in a tangible way, to ensure a dignified existence for all parties involved.Those are my thoughts on the topic.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1650)[Translation]Mr. Chair, the ball is in the court of the members of the governing party. They could very well take the initiative themselves, as I understand your decision very well. We at the NDP would be happy to have this proposal stolen from us.Thank you.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1700)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I have a few questions. The witnesses will forgive me if they have already answered them, but I am not a permanent member of the committee.I would like to know whether you have looked at this issue or asked for a legal opinion from the Department of Justice regarding the constitutionality of a retroactive decision during an ongoing police investigation specifically on the issue covered by the amendment or the bill. Do you have a legal opinion from the Department of Justice on the issue?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyDocument shredding and destructionFirearms registryGovernment billsRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducMarkPotter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1705)[English]Could you name for us one precedent for this having happened in the past, when the ruling government decided to move forward a modification to a statute affecting an issue on which there was an investigation? Did that ever happen in the past?MarkPotterMarkPotter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1705)[Translation]Was that precedent included in the legal advice you requested from the Department of Justice?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsRobertAbramowitzMarkPotter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1705)[Translation]How do you define the will of Parliament as expressed by the government?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsMarkPotterMarkPotter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1705)[English]Couldn't we say that the will of Parliament was also expressed by Parliament when it voted on it, while it excluded the...? It didn't actually mention or describe the issue of the access to information request that was under way. If the will of Parliament had been to drop the request, it could have been voted upon in that way. The will of Parliament was very incomplete, in the sense that the government wants to actually proceed with it.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsMarkPotterMarkPotter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1705)[Translation]In my opinion, we cannot extrapolate Parliament's will based on what the government would like it to be. The will of Parliament was expressed in a vote that was held in the House. Nothing mentioned an exclusion from the access to information process. If Parliament had wanted to do something in that regard at that time, it would have spoken. However, that question was not specified in what was passed by Parliament. And so we cannot presume that the will of Parliament was to put an end to this access to information process.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsMarkPotterJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1715)[Translation]Those are precisely the points I wanted to raise. We are not talking about a hypothetical situation, but about a factual situation that exists right now. With this measure, the government is creating direct interference in a police investigation. We are not talking about a hypothetical question, but rather about a matter of actual fact.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1715)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I request a recorded vote.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1715)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I am looking at my colleagues. They don't have to act like those who followed Reverend Jones and drank his Kool-Aid. The government is speed-walking into a wall, head first. It is nurturing the seeds of its own self-destruction. I cannot prevent them from blindly following the wishes of the Prime Minister's Office, but what we are observing right now is absolutely incredible. That is the only simple warning I wanted to give them.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1715)[English]Yes, I want a recorded vote.(Clause 230 agreed to: yeas 5; nays 4)(On clause 231)Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyDecisions in committeeDocument shredding and destructionFirearms registryGovernment billsRecorded divisionsRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1730)[Translation]This morning, we heard witnesses make a presentation. It is clear to us that the provisions contained in clause 20 of part 3 constitute another formal attack by the government against workers' access to free and fair collective bargaining.After a series of legal decisions that confirmed that access to free and equitable collective bargaining is guaranteed by the charter, it seems unlikely that these legislative measures will survive a legal challenge, just like the retroactive changes to the long-gun registry provisions that were recently the object of a decision. And this is not the first time. I remember that when I used to sit on this committee, there was another provision we felt was contrary to the Constitution, that had to do with a retroactive amendment to the rules governing the appointment of Quebec judges to the Supreme Court. We had warned the government that that provision was unconstitutional, and it was deemed to be so by the Supreme Court. So we have been here before.Once again, this decision will clearly be the object of a court challenge, since it really runs counter to the spirit of the legislation and the Constitution. The decision by several unions to leave the negotiating table following the introduction of this legislation is symptomatic of the toxic approach Conservatives have to collective bargaining.This matter is important. I think that the witnesses from the unions recognized that as well. However, it has to be negotiated in good faith in the framework of a collective bargaining process. That is clearly not the case at this time. The government is attempting to force the adoption of provisions that should be freely negotiated. So there is no way we are going to support this provision.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClause-by-clause studyGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71434HélèneLaverdièreHélène-LaverdièreLaurier—Sainte-MarieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/LaverdièreHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène Laverdière (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, NDP): (1125)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.My thanks to the witnesses for their very interesting presentations.Before I ask my questions, I must tell you that I lived in Senegal for three years. While there, I saw the damage that malaria can do to a society at all levels. There are also economic and social repercussions, in education, as an example. The problem has broad and significant repercussions. Mr. Verhoosel, your organization brings together about 500 partners. I personally believe that there can be no single approach when it comes to dealing with global epidemics of this kind. Can you explain a little more how the 500 partners operate and why the partnership is important? AfricaMalariaDeanAllisonNiagara West—GlanbrookHervéVerhoosel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71434HélèneLaverdièreHélène-LaverdièreLaurier—Sainte-MarieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/LaverdièreHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène Laverdière: (1130)[Translation]Thank you very much.We have also talked a lot about the importance of the health care system, and not just for malaria. For Ebola, the challenges for the health care system were quite striking.Senator, how is the public health care system in Cameroon? AfricaCameroonMalariaHervéVerhooselPierreFlambeau NgayapHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau (Westmount—Ville-Marie, Lib.): (1140)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I've taken preventive medicines when going into countries with malaria. How much of the medicine that we're talking about today is preventive versus medicine that's used once you have malaria?AfricaMalariaPharmaceuticalsDeanAllisonNiagara West—GlanbrookHervéVerhoosel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1145)[English] I have a couple of more questions. I'm limited on time, so please forgive me.My question is for you, Madame Lucard. I want to get a sense of what MMV is about. It sounds like you raise capital but it's not clear to me what the venture is. Do you give that capital to drug companies to develop the medicines? Is that what happens? What do you do with it?AfricaMalariaPharmaceuticalsHervéVerhooselAndreaLucard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1145)[English]Why aren't the companies doing it by themselves?AfricaMalariaPharmaceuticalsAndreaLucardAndreaLucard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1145)[English]Thank you.How much does the Government of Canada finance either MMV or Roll Back Malaria Partnership at the moment, or does it?AfricaMalariaMedicines for Malaria VentureAndreaLucardAndreaLucard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1145)[English]Through the Global Fund, okay.[Translation]You mentioned the advantage of a partnership and I see the advantage: you are talking about 500 members. A partnership is able to look for common objectives, set priorities and work together to implement them. At the same time, if everyone goes off in different directions, a partnership is not very effective.Can you give me an example of an objective that the partnership, with its 500 members, decided to make into a priority? Since your funds are limited, how are you tackling the malaria problem?AfricaMalariaRoll Back Malaria PartnershipHervéVerhooselHervéVerhoosel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1150)[Translation]My question goes to the senator.Are you making progress against malaria in Cameroon? Is the number of people who have it or who die from it decreasing?AfricaCameroonMalariaHervéVerhooselPierreFlambeau NgayapHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71434HélèneLaverdièreHélène-LaverdièreLaurier—Sainte-MarieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/LaverdièreHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène Laverdière: (1155)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Mr. Lucard, we talked very briefly about a potential vaccine. Mr. Verhoosel and the senator might also like to comment. Where are we with the possibility of having a vaccine some day?AfricaImmunizationMalariaDeanAllisonNiagara West—GlanbrookAndreaLucard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71434HélèneLaverdièreHélène-LaverdièreLaurier—Sainte-MarieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/LaverdièreHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène Laverdière: (1200)[Translation]Yes, that answers it.AndreaLucardPierreFlambeau NgayapHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe (Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, NDP): (1100)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to draw the committee's attention to the following motion:That the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans undertake a study as soon as possible, to examine the effects of the declining American Eel population in order to develop an action plan, jointly with the plan prepared by the Quebec Department of Energy and Natural Resources, designed to: (1) reverse the decline in the population; (2) increase the economic activity generated both domestically and internationally by this fishery; (3) preserve the eel fishing techniques in Kamouraska as part of our intangible marine heritage; and (4) designate the American Eel as a species of “special concern” under the Species at Risk Act, and that the committee report its findings and recommendations to the House at the earliest opportunity.Thank you, Mr. Chair.Committee businessRodneyWestonSaint JohnRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1115)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Gentlemen, I would like to thank you for being here to help us with this study.First, can you please briefly remind us of the concerns that people had in 2014 about the Atlantic salmon stocks in Quebec rivers? In the decisions that have been made in 2015, how many rivers will require “catch-and-release” because of the state of the stocks?Atlantic salmonFisheries stocksHunting and sport fishingProvince of QuebecRodneyWestonSaint JohnJeanBoudreault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1120)[Translation]What is the direct impact on tourism? Will the fact that catch-and-release is now required discourage some fishers from continuing to fish recreationally in Quebec?Atlantic salmonCatch certificatesHunting and sport fishingTourismJeanBoudreaultJeanBoudreault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1120)[Translation]As you said, the annual benefits of about $573 million were quite threatened. That's major.Could we try to work together to determine solutions that could be used to establish the sustainability of stocks in the longer term, in the decades to come?Out of all the witnesses we have heard from, you may be the one whose position on farmed salmon is the clearest and firmest. You immediately associated it with the risk of disease and pollution. You concluded by saying that a moratorium should be imposed. That's the first time I've heard that. You even suggested that we consider converting marine production to land production.Could you provide more factual details about what you've observed? Have you seen any impacts of salmon farming that led you to make those conclusions?Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingOpen-pen aquacultureProvince of QuebecJeanBoudreaultJeanBoudreault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1120)[Translation]I'm sorry. I want to be sure I understand. You have communicated your concerns to the federal government several times, but no one has responded. Is that right?Hunting and sport fishingJeanBoudreaultJeanBoudreault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1125)[Translation]So there are two things: your concerns about farmed salmon and your concerns about Atlantic salmon stocks in Quebec rivers. I will put you on a track. The witnesses we have heard from almost all agree on the following question.Do you think that Fisheries and Oceans Canada has demonstrated some disengagement when it comes to its obligation to ensure an appropriate level of research and study on these situations to be able to make the best possible decisions?You think that stocks in Quebec are doing fairly badly, and you are asking for a moratorium. Could you tell us if you have observed a disengagement and whether the federal government could take a better approach so that the problem could be studied using resources that are consistent with the size of the issue?Atlantic salmonDepartment of Fisheries and OceansGreenlandHunting and sport fishingInternational relationsScientific research and scientistsJeanBoudreaultJeanBoudreault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1125)[Translation]These are largely schools of fish that return to Quebec rivers.Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingInternational relationsSaint-Pierre et MiquelonJeanBoudreaultJeanBoudreault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1125)[Translation]Thank you for your comments and your observations.There is another aspect of your testimony that I would like you to comment further on.You spoke about the difference between the river-by-river management approach and the different approach taken by the federal government. You said simply that it was more complex. What are the advantages or disadvantages of the federal government's different approach to managing Atlantic salmon stocks?Custodial managementFisheries stocksHunting and sport fishingJeanBoudreaultJeanBoudreault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1125)[Translation]If I understood correctly, you spoke about a $15-million investment that would be required to improve the North Shore salmon habitat. What are your impressions about these investment needs? What role should the federal government play here?Government assistanceHabitat conservationHunting and sport fishingProvince of QuebecJeanBoudreaultJeanBoudreault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1130)[Translation]Thank you. That's all the time I have.Thank you very much, gentlemen.JeanBoudreaultJeanBoudreault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1230)[Translation]Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us today. I am the member for Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup. I'd like to speak with Mr. Plourde first. Congratulations on your outfitters' success: 425,000 users and 256,000 fishers. The economic spinoffs are tremendous. Many of our previous witnesses have talked about their concerns over invasive species. You touched on that when you discussed Asian carp and your concerns in that regard. Witnesses said they had two main concerns. First of all, they are appalled by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans' withdrawal of investment in research that could provide a better framework for dealing with invasive species. Second of all, border resources and oversight are lacking, making it impossible to ensure that, when an American comes into Canada on their boat, they aren't inadvertently bringing in an invasive species. Do you share those concerns? Hunting and sport fishingInvasive speciesPleasure craftResearch and researchersRodneyWestonSaint JohnMarcPlourde//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1230)[Translation] If we lose the ability to control Asian carp, what impact would it have on your members' operations?Asian carpHunting and sport fishingInvasive speciesMarcPlourdeMarcPlourde//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1230)[Translation] Now I'd like to speak to the Association des pêcheurs du lac Saint-Pierre representatives. One of the problems affecting the lake is tied directly to the federal government. I have here excerpts from some fairly recent Courrier du Sud articles. According to the articles, 40% of Lac Saint-Pierre is still condemned because more than 300,000 shells—forgive me for laughing, it's anything but funny—were fired into the lake, and nearly 8,000 of them were never discharged. Those are similar to the figures you gave us. Could you discuss in greater detail the impact on the lake of those thousands of shells, many of which are flat-out dangerous? You also mentioned the department's slowness in dealing with the problem.Department of National DefenceHunting and sport fishingLac Saint-PierreShellsMarcPlourdeMarcelBouchard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1235)[Translation]What sort of action plan should the Department of National Defence put in place to fix the problem? How long should it take to fix? What decision needs to be made? Department of National DefenceHunting and sport fishingLac Saint-PierreShellsMarcelBouchardMarcelBouchard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1235)[Translation]I can see how frustrated you are with the situation, and rightfully so. The NDP is taking note and won't forget about it. I'm going to turn the floor over to my colleague, Robert Aubin, the member for Trois-Rivières, which is directly affected by the situation at Lac Saint-Pierre. Hunting and sport fishingMarcelBouchardRobertAubinTrois-Rivières//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (1235)[Translation]Good afternoon gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today and sharing your field expertise with us. It's a good counterbalance to what the scientists can tell us. My question is for the Association des pêcheurs du lac Saint-Pierre representatives. Something you said in your presentation really stuck with me. You talked about how successfully the problem has been dealt with in the Great Lakes, particularly Lake Erie. Which proven measures at Lake Erie do you think should be to applied to Lac Saint-Pierre to help the ecosystem there?Best practicesHunting and sport fishingLac Saint-PierreLake ErieFrançoisLapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupMarcelBouchard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1235)[Translation]You said your assistance was turned down by the government. Was that just on the part of the provincial government or the federal government as well?Association des pêcheurs du lac Saint-PierreGovernment assistanceHunting and sport fishingMarcelBouchardJeanLévesque//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1235)[Translation]You said you weren't able to obtain the data pertaining to Lake Erie. JeanLévesqueRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My first question is for you, Ms. Dubé. Your presentation was very interesting. I would simply like to know whether you think open data plays an important role in disruptive technology and whether the federal government should play a role by developing a national strategy or taking a concerted approach in terms of the availability of open data.Data sharingInnovationDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1145)[Translation]Yes. In the discussions I have had about open data, I found that it had tremendous potential, but also a number of challenges, especially since there is no real communication between the databases of the provinces. In your view, should the federal government play a coordinating role?InnovationJacquelineDubéJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1145)[English]The next question is for Ms. Sullivan from the University of Waterloo. You say in your presentation that curiosity-driven research is essential. Would you have any recommendations for the federal government regarding finding a balance in terms of funding curiosity-driven research and industry-oriented research? Do you think there should be federal funding specifically towards discovery research?InnovationResearch and researchersJacquelineDubéPearlSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1150)[English]I think it's important, because we've heard from other stakeholders how important the discovery grants program has been and we've seen over the past few years a lack of investment in this program. I think on the NDP side, we'd certainly be in favour of reinvesting in discovery research.Moving on to another subject, the status of women committee is actually doing a study on women in STEM, which is really an interesting topic. Although your presentation didn't touch on this, many witnesses in the status of women committee noted that in order to encourage women to enter engineering, it's really important to portray it as a helping career, so really to further educate those who would go into those careers. How do you think we could encourage women to be part of innovation ecosystems? How could we further encourage them to create future disrupters? Do you have any recommendations, either for industry or for government, in terms of increasing the participation of women?EcosystemsEngineering and engineersInnovationWomenPearlSullivanPearlSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1215)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My thanks to our witnesses for being here this morning.I would like to start with Ms. Sullivan.A number of experts said that it is difficult to connect university research with the needs of research and development companies. However, CEFRIO seems to have developed a level of expertise in the field. In your view, what solutions could Canada develop on a larger scale? Business and industrial sectorsColleges and universitiesInnovationDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1220)[Translation]Yes, I will give you the floor afterwards, Ms. Dubé.JacquelineDubéPearlSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1220)[Translation]Ms. Sullivan, must our universities provide better incentives to researchers for commercialization?InnovationPearlSullivanPearlSullivan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1220)[Translation]Thank you.Ms. Dubé, I see that you want to respond to those comments.PearlSullivanJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1220)[Translation]I find that interesting. Since you are from my riding, I would like to take this opportunity to find out more about how CEFRIO is funded.Do you receive money from federal programs? How can the federal government help you more?InnovationJacquelineDubéJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1225)[Translation]Yes, that could be a partner. I find it very interesting that you are raising this point today.Ms. Dubé, in your PowerPoint presentation, you indicated that the cost of access to the Internet and to cellular networks was too high and was affecting Canada's economic vitality.How does Canada compare to the rest of the world in that respect?InnovationInternetJacquelineDubéJacquelineDubé//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1225)[Translation]Since it is a matter of changing our way of thinking, I would like to direct the question to others, so that they can share their ideas with us as well.JacquelineDubéDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1225)[Translation]Okay.DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette (Drummond, NDP): (0935)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the two witnesses for appearing and for their testimony.Mr. Morrice, you just talked about how important it is for municipalities and provinces to participate. What role does the federal government play in your initiatives? Actually, the question is also for Ms. Ryan.Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment assistanceMunicipal governmentPrivate sectorHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaMikeMorrice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0935)[Translation]My question is about both roles.MikeMorriceMikeMorrice//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0940)[Translation]Thank you.Ms. Ryan, I have the same question for you. I know that you have good partnerships with municipalities and the province. Can you explain the federal government's role?Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment assistanceMunicipal governmentPrivate sectorMikeMorriceTraceyRyan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0940)[Translation]What would you recommend to the committee concerning the federal government's role? Some programs are ad hoc and do not have long-term funding. Do you have any recommendations?Associations, institutions and organizationsEnvironmental protectionGovernment assistancePrivate sectorTraceyRyanTraceyRyan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, NDP): (0915)[Translation] Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I also thank the witnesses for being here with us today. I will begin with Mr. Henschel and Ms. Marcoux, who represent the RCMP. There has been much talk about the whole situation surrounding the destruction of data and the current conflict with the Information Commissioner. We are not necessarily talking about the process here. I think that aspect will be settled with the Information Commissioner. The problem with this bill is that the government wants to retroactively amend an act while a legal proceeding in respect to that act is ongoing.Since you work at the RCMP and regularly conduct investigations there, I would like you to tell me how a retroactive change connected to an ongoing proceeding affects the work of the RCMP? Let's take an example. Let us suppose that legal provisions set the value of the gifts MPs may receive at $500, but that an MP receives a gift valued at $750. However, in order to protect the MP, or for some other reason, the government decides, while there is a complaint before the courts, to retroactively increase the limit for gifts to $1,000. You can just imagine the problems that this would cause, not only in that situation but also in any other investigation the RCMP might be conducting.JamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducPeterHenschel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (0920)[English]I understand that.[Translation]I want to point out, however, that your testimony, even though it is interesting and informative, does not really have any impact on the legislative changes that are being proposed here. Indeed, the principle of these changes is a retroactive amendment to an act while a legal proceeding has already been undertaken. Consequently, even though your testimony is interesting—and I am sure it will be heard and listened to—it is not really relevant to what is being proposed in Bill C-59.I would like to go back to Ms. Tremblay and Ms. Daviau. Can you tell us more about the $900 million? According to what the government is saying, it is introducing savings via this budget, and these will contribute to its much-vaunted balanced budget.Could you tell us in a more detailed way how this $900 million constitutes, according to you, only ostensible, fictitious, savings?We are going to begin with Ms. Daviau and then go to Ms. Tremblay.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPublic Service and public servantsSick leavePeterHenschelDebiDaviau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (0920)[Translation]Ms. Tremblay, I am going to ask another question.As Mr. Lee said, the sick leave provisions were negotiated between the unions and the government, and both parties accepted these provisions. I think that Ms. Daviau, and probably Ms. Benson as well, talked about the possible unconstitutionality of this provision in Bill C-59. If this provision were adopted, what would be the direct consequences? Since this provision may be unconstitutional, what steps will be taken after the passage of this bill?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective bargainingConstitutionalityGovernment billsPublic Service and public servantsSick leaveDebiDaviauEmmanuelleTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle (Rivière-du-Nord, NDP): (0945)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I understand the representatives of the Canadian Association of Professional Employees, the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, and the Public Service Alliance of Canada very well. I understand that they are surprised to see that in an omnibus budget, the government is attempting to dispose of an issue that is on the negotiating table.You mention that this type of process may be unconstitutional, and I believe that that is a very real possibility. It would not be the first time that this government goes before the Supreme Court and is not successful in bringing in certain measures. I calculated that this has happened about a dozen times. If the government continues this, are you going to launch court challenges? Perhaps Ms. Benson could answer that question.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective bargainingConstitutionalityGovernment billsPublic Service and public servantsSick leaveScottBrisonHon.Kings—HantsRobynBenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0945)[Translation]I agree with you on this matter.The government claims that these measures are going to allow it to save $900 million, but you challenge that figure.Did your organization evaluate this? In the event that this bill were applied as it stands, did your calculations produce a different figure?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPublic Service and public servantsSick leaveRobynBensonRobynBenson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0950)[Translation]This is a problem we are facing with this budget. In a more general way, the government was announcing a surplus of $1.4 billion. And yet we are told that this $900 million is not real money. They have calculated things in a particular way to arrive at that surplus. Moreover, for the quarter that has just come to an end, the forecast was that the gross domestic product would increase by 1.2%, but in reality, there has been a drop of 0.6%. There were supposed to be surpluses in the budget that has been presented, but we parliamentarians, and the entire population, can see that we are instead heading toward a deficit.I share your opinion that this $900 million amount is fictional money which has been trumped up essentially for political ends. The amount is being used to show that the government is a good manager. However, in principle, a good manager negotiates with its unions and attempts to maintain negotiated agreements as long as possible. However, it is clear that this government does not do that.I would like to go back to your table, which I found very interesting. You applied the proposed plan to the figures you had for 2013-2014. I see in your table that after having used the six days of sick leave being proposed, 45% of employees who would need leave because they are sick would not be covered by the new plan.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPublic Service and public servantsSick leaveRobynBensonEmmanuelleTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0950)[Translation]In your presentation...EmmanuelleTremblayJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0950)[Translation] You also refer to Bill C-4, which is an obstacle. It is not the first time that this government attacks the right to collective bargaining.Does this all mean that this government does not like workers and does not like unionized workers? What is going on?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-4, A second act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 21, 2013 and other measuresC-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective bargainingGovernment billsLabour unionsPublic Service and public servantsSick leaveJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducEmmanuelleTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0950)[Translation]Yes, there is a type of contempt there.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsEmmanuelleTremblayEmmanuelleTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0950)[Translation]Thank you, madam.EmmanuelleTremblayEmmanuelleTremblay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté (Beauport—Limoilou, NDP): (1000)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Astle, the amendments made to the Industrial Design Act, the Patent Act and the Trade-Marks Act will never be examined by the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology. What do you think about that?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPrivacy and data protectionPublic consultationStanding Committee on Industry, Science and TechnologyTrademark lawJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJeffreyAstle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1000)[Translation]Were you consulted by Industry Canada?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJeffreyAstleJeffreyAstle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1000)[Translation]Very well.I sat on the Standing Committee of Industry, Science and Technology for all of 2014. I was caught up in the process and buffoonery surrounding the parts of the omnibus bill that had been referred to this committee. These provisions made other amendments to certain acts concerning trademarks and other such things.Monsieur Astle, according to the Canadian Bar Association, the fact of amending laws other than budgetary laws via an omnibus bill reduces the effectiveness of the democratic process and debate, and weakens the legislative power of the government.I think that what the Canadian Bar Association said is very significant and of great moment. As a lawyer, what do you think ?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJeffreyAstleJeffreyAstle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1000)[Translation]We are not talking here about the consultation process, but about the legislative process itself, which includes the study of bills in committee. You would probably have been comfortable had we examined the amendments made to these three acts at the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJeffreyAstleJeffreyAstle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1005)[Translation]The Advocates' Society sent a letter to the Minister of Finance concerning the process. Here is an excerpt from that letter:[...] further study is required given that some of Canada's professional associations and regulatory bodies [this is a reference to the issue of extending solicitor-client privilege], including the Law Societies in all of the provinces and territories, did not have an opportunity to provide their position or opinions on this issue.Were you aware of these omissions?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJeffreyAstleJeffreyAstle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1005)[Translation]And yet, the Law Society of Upper Canada, which shared its concerns about these amendments, considers that this created a precedent. The fact that this accelerated process is foisted upon a committee that does not have the necessary expertise may lead to certain deplorable consequences. That is the opinion of the Law Society of Upper Canada. Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJeffreyAstleJeffreyAstle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1005)[Translation]I am finished. Thank you, Mr. Chair.JamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1030)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to share the time I have with my colleagues Mr. Côté and Mr. Dionne Labelle.I would like to go back to Mr. Henschel and Ms. Marcoux.The Standing Committee on Finance is discussing legislative changes that are included in Bill C-59, in division 18 in particular. All of the witnesses here want to and may discuss the legislative changes. For your part, you do not want to, or cannot talk about them, and I understand that. You cannot talk about legislative changes that would have a retroactive effect on matters in a case that is currently before the courts. You cannot or do not want to talk about the investigation of the Ontario Provincial Police on this matter.As to whether all of the files were destroyed, even the Information Commissioner mentioned that she had no proof that they had not been destroyed, aside from Quebec, of course.[English] I'm sorry for the blunt question, but what is your purpose in coming here? What can you bring us that's related to the bill itself, outside of the fact that in your reply to Mr. Rajotte, you indicated that there is a disagreement in perspective between you and the Information Commissioner regarding compliance with the access to information requests? I'd like to know what you can bring here to the committee for the purpose of discussing Bill C-59?Access to information requestsBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresDocument shredding and destructionFirearms registryGovernment billsRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducPeterHenschel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1030)[English]Thank you very much.[Translation]I am going to yield the floor to Mr. Côté.PeterHenschelRaymondCôtéBeauport—Limoilou//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1030)[Translation]Thank you, colleague.Mr. Astle, you said that jurisprudence had been widely unfavourable regarding the protection of information exchanged between clients and experts in this area. Do you think that most of these judges' decisions, or a large proportion of them, were justified?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPrivacy and data protectionTrademark lawGuyCaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesJeffreyAstle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1035)[Translation]Excuse me, Mr. Astle.JeffreyAstleJeffreyAstle//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1035)[Translation]Mr. Astle, I apologize, and I thank you for your elaborate reply, but I must also let my colleague Pierre Dionne Labelle take the floor.JeffreyAstlePierreDionne LabelleRivière-du-Nord//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1035)[Translation]I'm going to conclude.I heard your criticism regarding the reason for our opposition. In fact, our objection is not, basically, about the content of the bill, however we do wonder about one thing. This question is not addressed only to you, since it could also go to the RCMP. How is it that we are being presented with omnibus bills that involve budgetary questions, and in which matters are discussed that could be studied by other instances and in the context of other laws? The provisions affecting the Industrial Design Act, the Patent Act and the Trade-Marks Act could have been part of a separate bill and have been studied in that framework rather than being included in a budget bill.Thank you, Mr. Rajotte.RaymondCôtéBeauport—LimoilouJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté (Beauport—Limoilou, NDP): (1645)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My thanks also go to the minister for being here with us today to answer our questions.The big banks were particularly harsh in terms of the results for the first quarter of the year. The National Bank talked about “calamitous results”, TD Bank used the word “atrocious”, just like the Governor of the Bank of Canada. In the budget, the expected growth was 1.2% for the first quarter of 2015 while the Bank of Canada forecasted 0%. The surplus of $1.4 billion that you claim to be able to free up is clearly based on the 1.2%.In practical terms, what changed because of this quarter's results?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresEconomic conditionsGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1645)[Translation]I'm sorry, Mr. Minister, but I don't want to hear your talking points. I want to know what that changes in terms of your surplus forecasts.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1650)[Translation]This much talked about surplus is artificial. In reality, it is a deficit, but you are using $2 billion of surplus from the EI fund. Last Thursday, Aaron Wudrick, the director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, pointed out how scandalous he thought the use of that surplus was. Of course, we could also talk about the use of the contingency fund.Would you agree with Mr. Wudrick that the use of the surplus from the EI fund is a problem?Balanced budgetBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1650)[Translation]Yes, absolutely.JoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1650)[Translation]Does the income splitting apply as of this year? When you answered my colleague's questions a little earlier, it was not clear. Is that part of the budget? Will the $2 billion shortfall apply only in 2016? Could you clarify that question please? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsIncome splittingJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1650)[Translation]Yes. Will that apply in 2015 or only in 2016?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPaulRochonPaulRochon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1650)[Translation]I have another quick question for you, Mr. Minister.We have seen the term “income splitting” appear and disappear. It seems an order was issued to no longer use that term. Do you use the term “income splitting” freely? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsIncome splittingPaulRochonJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle (Rivière-du-Nord, NDP): (1655)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Minister, let me tell you about a lady named Francine.Francine had cancer and she was entitled to 15 weeks of EI benefits. Quebec has last resort assistance. However, since she had a house, she could not access the assistance.I read the Parliamentary Budget Officer's report that said what we could have done with the $2 billion EI surplus. That could have helped Francine and thousands of other people like her who are at the end of their benefits and are forced to seek last resort assistance.Earlier, you said that the income splitting system in 2014-2015 was $2.395 billion. I talked with Francine. She feels—and I agree with her—that the government is helping neither people suffering and in need nor sick people. With this amount of over $2 billion, we could have stretched the EI benefits for a full year. That is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer says. However, the government is instead giving the money to 15% of the population, that is to say the wealthier segment. That is how Francine sees your budget and that is how I see it as well.How do you explain the choice to use this amount of $2 billion to balance the budget and give $2.395 billion to 15% of the population? Francine and the people who are suffering in Canada don't understand an action like that. It's as if you are working for those who don't need it and you don't care about the real needs of the people. That is deplorable. Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsIncome splittingJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1700)[Translation]The reality is—JoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1700)[Translation]Do you understand Francine's predicament? She would have liked to be able to benefit from EI benefits during the duration of her treatment. Instead, the government stops giving her those benefits and gives them to the wealthiest 15% of the population. There is something despicable about that.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1700)[Translation]Is the government's role—Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1700)[Translation]Does the government not also have a role in helping the poorest members of society? Should that not be a full-time concern for the government?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1700)[Translation]Not at all?JoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1700)[Translation]There is a bias for the wealthy.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1700)[Translation]You have a bias for the wealthy.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1700)[Translation]The fact is that we are seeing that 20% of Canadians, the wealthiest, will benefit 16 times more from the TFSA program than the 20% of Canadians who are the poorest. So it is a bias for the wealthy. Let's call it for what it is.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsIncome levelsTax Free Savings AccountJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJoeOliverHon.Eglinton—Lawrence//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1700)[Translation]Yes, it is true.JoeOliverHon.Eglinton—LawrenceJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai (Brossard—La Prairie, NDP): (1640)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I also want to thank the witnesses for participating in today's meeting, including those from Vancouver and the City of Montreal. I will begin with the City of Montreal.Mr. Perez, you talked about some challenges—to say the least—in terms of public transportation. You also talked about the fund the government announced and pointed out some issues with it, including the fact that it is a PPP and will be awarded on merit. You are not the only one to have shared those concerns. In this committee's meetings, we have heard a number of municipal representatives complain about the lack of information on the terms and conditions of the allocated funds.Have you obtained more information? What are your concerns when it comes to the way the funding will be allocated, for example to the City of Montreal, with the terms and conditions not yet being well-defined?City of MontréalGovernment assistanceInfrastructureMontréalPublic transitPublic-private partnershipsLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundLionelPerez//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1645)[Translation]Yes, indeed. You talked about the complex cases you have had to contend with.Do you have concrete examples of situations where the complex mechanisms caused delays or even derailed some of your projects?InfrastructureLionelPerezLionelPerez//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1645)[Translation]Okay. You are talking about a flexible approach, and I presume you prioritize the excise tax issue, or rather the mechanism.Can you tell us about the investment? In your presentation, I believe you said that most of the funding was invested in waste water treatment when it came to the excise tax. Do you think that it's still a necessity or that, on the contrary, the issue has been resolved and that you could invest in other areas?Witnesses have also talked to us about culture. The mayor of Gatineau, for instance, mentioned that one of the areas where funding was lacking were libraries.City of MontréalInfrastructureChantalMorissetteLionelPerez//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1645)[Translation]Thank you.LionelPerezLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen Sound//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1715)[Translation]Mr. Perez, you wanted to say something when we were discussing public transportation. I saw you raise your hand and I'm sorry you were not given an opportunity to speak. Maybe you could close with that.InfrastructureLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundLionelPerez//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, NDP): (1545)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I also want to thank Ms. Ramcharan for joining us.You were here when we asked questions about the main estimates. I asked two questions then, but I did not get any clear answers. I would like to make sure that there is some follow-up to those questions.The first question was about the $80 million added to the National Energy Board's operating budget. At the time, I pointed out that the funding allocated to the NEB had been reduced by 15% to 20%, but that the $80-million amount constituted support since the latest budget. However, no one could tell me what that amount would be used for, since the main estimates had sort of kept in line with the budget announced by the government.Do you have more details on the breakdown of that $80-million amount for the National Energy Board announced in the federal budget?Atomic Energy of Canada LimitedCanadian Energy RegulatorDepartment of Natural ResourcesGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (A) 2015-2016LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightKamiRamcharan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1545)[English]I understand Natural Resources is a large department.Atomic Energy of Canada LimitedCanadian Energy RegulatorDepartment of Natural ResourcesGovernment expendituresSupplementary estimates (A) 2015-2016KamiRamcharanKamiRamcharan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1550)[English] I have one quick follow-up on this. I was listening, and I'm not sure if I heard anything about supplementary funds specifically for the hearing process—especially with the expanded role of the NEB—for new pipeline projects.I haven't really seen or heard anything related to this, except maybe for that last part that you mentioned.Atomic Energy of Canada LimitedCanadian Energy RegulatorDepartment of Natural ResourcesSupplementary estimates (A) 2015-2016KamiRamcharanKamiRamcharan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1550)[Translation]I have one last question, and then I will let Mr. Rafferty take over.Last time you appeared before us, I asked a question about the effectiveness of the $24-million advertising campaign to promote pipeline export projects toward the United States—more specifically, the Keystone pipeline.Do you have more information about that campaign's effectiveness? A report was produced on the matter.Atomic Energy of Canada LimitedDepartment of Natural ResourcesGovernment advertisingKeystone Pipeline ProjectPipeline transportationSupplementary estimates (A) 2015-2016KamiRamcharanKamiRamcharan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1550)[English]Sorry, I'll just leave some time for Mr. Rafferty. Could you table this document with us?KamiRamcharanLeonBenoitVegreville—Wainwright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71407TyroneBenskinTyrone-BenskinJeanne-Le BerNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BenskinTyrone_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tyrone Benskin (Jeanne-Le Ber, NDP): (1400)[English]Thank you. May I please add my voice in offering both of you condolences on your losses and for what you have suffered, and give you my thanks for your courage and bravery in coming here and sharing your story with us. One of the chief things I think I've found in this committee is the opportunity for individuals such as you to shine a light on some of the very ugly practices we have in this world of ours. If that is the least we can do here, then I hope you will leave here with some sense of moving forward in that quest.With that, I have a question for either Mr. Neve or Mr. Olivares. I'm having a hard time, as I think any sane person would, just understanding the reasons for a lot of these actions. In most of the testimony that we hear when people come in, there's a political motivation. It's a dictatorship trying to keep power and so forth. This guise of the war on drugs, the mass military involvement, the disappearance of its own people, the 43 students, I'm having a hard time understanding what this is meant to accomplish. If you could shed some light on that for me, it would be greatly appreciated.Civil and human rightsCorruptionCriminal liabilityMexicoScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and AddingtonLuis EliudTapia Olivares//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71407TyroneBenskinTyrone-BenskinJeanne-Le BerNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BenskinTyrone_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tyrone Benskin: (1400)[English]I agree wholeheartedly. In my limited capacity I would say that when we hear of these things in the context of a dictatorship, for example, we understand the disappearance of dissenting opinions since people who aim to speak out against the governmental structure will disappear for that reason. I guess I'm trying to understand, for example, about these 42 students en masse and the intent behind that. Was it to create fear within the community? Was there someone specific amongst that group who they were looking for and they took the others as witnesses? That's the bizarre logic that I'm trying to grapple with.AbductionCivil and human rightsHomicideMexicoStudentsAlexNeveLuis EliudTapia Olivares//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71407TyroneBenskinTyrone-BenskinJeanne-Le BerNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BenskinTyrone_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tyrone Benskin: (1405)[English]Thank you.Luis EliudTapia OlivaresScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary (St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NDP): (1125)[English]Thank you to the witnesses. I remember back in 1992 when John Crosbie shut down the northern cod fishery. I was a journalist at the time, and one of the questions he was asked was whether or not, after the commercial fishing moratorium, Newfoundlanders and Labradorians would still be able to fish for their tables. His response is one that I haven't forgotten. What he said was that if the day came that Newfoundlanders and Labradorians couldn't fish for their table, couldn't fish for their supper, the cod stock would be beyond saving.The day came when Newfoundlanders and Labradorians were restricted from cod fishing for their tables, but now we can fish. But as you've both outlined, the recreational or food fishery—although I think you're both leaning towards the words “food fishery”—is restricted to a narrow period of time. Gentlemen, what I can gather from both of you is that there are safety concerns in terms of limitations on when you can fish, and there are also food security concerns. Then there are also cultural concerns in terms of passing on fishing knowledge to future generations.The bottom line on cod stocks is that they are still delicate. Mr. Samson, you brought up the fact that you don't believe in tags, and we don't have a tag system right now. I understand from my last estimate that 1,500 tonnes were caught in the food fishery last year, and 11,000 tonnes were caught overall between the food fishery and the commercial fishery, which pales in comparison to the 1.1 million tonnes of Atlantic cod that were taken from everywhere across the Atlantic and off the coast of Canada.The question for both of you is this. Unless you keep track of what's being caught, how do you know what's being taken? Again, cod stocks are in a delicate shape. How would you both respond to that?CodFisheries quotasFisheries stocksGear tags and tabsHunting and sport fishingInformation collectionMarine conservationRodneyWestonSaint JohnBarryFordham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1130)[English] Mr. Samson, I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm moving to Barry now because I have limited time.Barry.WardSamsonBarryFordham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris (St. John's East, NDP): (1130)[English] I have a question for both of you. I know there's a lot of discussion about the recreational versus food fishery. You both have talked about the food fishery side of it but, of course, there is a combination of people who engage in this program, some purely recreational, whether it be tourism-related or, as you talked about, families getting together. You seem to be talking about a more serious thing. Both of you mentioned 40 or 50 fish for your winter supply. In your case, Mr. Samson, you said September fish are the ones that are best for food.Would you be able to guesstimate either what percentage or how many in Newfoundland and Labrador participate in the way you both talk about, in terms of a food fishery, a winter food supply, hoping to get 40 or 50 fish to put away some and, obviously, eat some and have some for the table? It seems to me that if you're talking about a food fishery, that may be a different system, and tags may be inevitable if you're talking about a quantity of that nature.CodFisheries quotasGear tags and tabsHunting and sport fishingBarryFordhamWardSamson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1135)[English]Anybody can go ahead, whoever wants to go first.WardSamsonBarryFordham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1230)[English]Thank you both for your presentations this morning.I'm Jack Harris, MP for St. John's East, and I'm sitting in today for Robert Chisholm. He's asked me to sit in because he had to be at a funeral in the riding. I do have some questions, though.First of all, let me say that I'm extremely impressed by the knowledge that you bring about the activities in your area, and also in bringing the voice of conservation and restoration to the debate. I am also extremely encouraged in hearing that there are solutions to this problem of the degradation of Atlantic salmon. In fact, the numbers that were put forward by you, Ms. Negus, about the increase in the number of salmon over 10 years, from 2,000 to 10,000, by the activity of liming, obviously gives an optimism to the success that can take place if efforts are made. Thank you for pointing it out to us.Mr. Regan, you mentioned some numbers at the end. Could you expand a little on the economic value? You talked about the restoration of the Brierly Brook. Is that one of the Sackville rivers that you're working on? Would you be able to say what the value is of the restoration of the Sackville rivers within your bailiwick, your jurisdiction? Is there some study that's been done or some numbers you can extrapolate as to the economic value?CostsHabitat conservationHunting and sport fishingRodneyWestonSaint JohnWalterRegan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1235)[English] Does that require provincial or federal regulation or a bit of both?Habitat conservationHunting and sport fishingLegislationWalterReganWalterRegan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1235)[English]Thank you.Ms. Negus, you talked about a lot of complex issues and it shows a great understanding. Maybe you can both help me. This is the first time I've heard extensive talk about acid rain. You mentioned acid rain and aluminum as having an effect on the rivers. Are they both connected and is the source international or local? Is liming the principal way of dealing with that?Acid rainAluminumHabitat conservationHunting and sport fishingWalterReganHeatherNegus//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1235)[English]Thank you.The figure that was given here of $536 per fish, adult salmon, for a value of a commercial “recreational fishery” where the tourists are involved, certainly seems to provide at least one measure of what investment in restoration could provide.Could either of you answer the following concerning the role of Fisheries and Oceans? Obviously you, as NGOs, would have some expertise and some staff who could participate in these projects, but to what extent do you rely on the expertise of DFO scientists and employees to provide advice on habitat restoration, management of projects, mitigation efforts, etc.? Are you satisfied with the amount of resources that DFO in Nova Scotia is applying to this effort? Have there been cutbacks in recent years, or do you know of any programs that have gone by the wayside as a result of insufficient resources?Budget cutsDepartment of Fisheries and OceansGovernment expendituresHunting and sport fishingNon-governmental organizationsWalterReganWalterRegan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1240)[English]Thank you.HeatherNegusRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1140)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is a pleasure to welcome a Quebec company to Ottawa. Thank you for coming to meet with us, Mr. Simard. I have a few questions for you.In describing your company's vision, your website says:Technologies become useless, capital dwindles and competitive advantages slowly disappear, but the right people will always allow an organization to excel, reinvent itself and survive change. Instead of putting a spoke in their wheels, we think businesses should offer people the freedom and the environment to enable them to reach their full potential.Are Canadian companies a little too conservative when it comes to reinventing themselves? If so, what is the mindshift we need to happen here?Business and industrial sectorsChange managementInnovationDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdalePierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1140)[Translation]What are the main obstacles that a company like yours might face when it's trying to implement new technologies?InnovationPierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1140)[Translation]If you could ask the federal government to adopt a single measure to help your business excel in new technologies and innovation, what would it be?InnovationPierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1140)[Translation]I would also like to address the issue of the growing number of business incubators in the area of new technologies. What do you think are the positive and negative aspects of that kind of development?Business developmentInnovationRisk managementPierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1145)[Translation]That's the most positive aspect, but is there a negative one in your opinion?InnovationPierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1145)[Translation]There may be a lack of diversity of opinions.I would like to ask another question. Knowing that Canada lags a little bit behind when it comes to investment in research and innovation, are we going to be able to surf the wave of new technologies in the coming years? If not, will Canada be able to compete internationally? Canada is the only developed country that has a deficit when it comes to intellectual property. That means that we are spending more to acquire the technology of other countries that what the rest of the world buys from us. How do you think we could fix that situation?Business and industrial sectorsInnovationIntellectual propertyResearch and researchersPierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1145)[Translation]That's right.Since this is an opportunity to speak to a representative from a Quebec company, I was wondering whether I could give you the last word so that you could talk about certain aspects that we haven't had an opportunity to discuss. What should we do for Quebec companies in particular?InnovationPierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1145)[Translation]Before the election, is there anything we should focus more on? Yesterday, I commented on our mayor's shopping list. How can we help more in this respect?Pierre-LucSimardPierre-LucSimard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1145)[Translation]Thank you for your testimony today.Pierre-LucSimardDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau (Westmount—Ville-Marie, Lib.): (1205)[English]Thank you all for your testimony. Please don't think me rude. I only have seven minutes so, if I interrupt you, it's because I have many more questions to ask.I'll start with Ambassador Suarez Davila. You mentioned a letter from the Prime Minister dealing with the subject of visas. I was not personally aware of this. I'm wondering when this letter came and what specifically it said.Canada-United States relationsPassports and visasSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitDeanAllisonNiagara West—GlanbrookFranciscoSuarez DavilaH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1205)[English]I'm aware of the background.FranciscoSuarez DavilaH.E.FranciscoSuarez DavilaH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1205)[English]You say this will come into effect next March or the letter came in March?Canada-United States relationsSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitFranciscoSuarez DavilaH.E.FranciscoSuarez DavilaH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1205)[English]It was sent in March. Thank you, Ambassador.Mr. Dillon, you mentioned possibly one of the things that could happen is a North American standard for fracking, which I think is a good idea. It's not only something that doesn't have a standard, but I think there are lots of misconceptions about fracking as well.Here in Canada, of course, we don't have the same approach in the different provinces. As you know, there are moratoriums in certain provinces. Should we start by coming up with our own standard within Canada before we deal with the United States and Mexico?Canada-United States relationsHydraulic fracturingMexicoSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitFranciscoSuarez DavilaH.E.JohnDillon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1205)[English]That is under way. Thank you.Mr. Jacobson, is the United States ever going to go metric?Voices: Oh, oh!Canada-United States relationsMetric systemSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitJohnDillonDavidJacobson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1205)[English]You realize that you, Liberia, and Myanmar are the three countries in the world that have not gone metric.Canada-United States relationsMetric systemSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitDavidJacobsonDavidJacobson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1205)[English]I want to bring up a point. In 2006 I was on a panel of the Government of Ontario. It was on transboundary air pollution, and it was an international panel with Americans and Canadians. It dealt with something that is part of our reality, and that is that the weather patterns do not respect borders. In this particular case, it was a lot of airborne pollutants carried from the Ohio Valley that made their way up to southern Ontario. I was staggered to realize that there are billions of dollars in impact, not just to things like acid rain but also to the health of people who have breathing difficulties, to agriculture, and others. To be fair, let's also point out that there are weather patterns that go the other way as well.Is this something that should be taken up? You've talked about environmental issues, such as common pricing of carbon and things like that. What about the fact that we do export pollutants to each other on occasion?Air qualityBordersCanada-United States relationsSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitDavidJacobsonJohnDillon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1210)[English]It's something that I was on with the Government of Ontario, but I was not aware of any federal level initiatives, because it's more than only Ontario.Air qualityBordersCanada-United States relationsSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitJohnDillonJohnDillon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1210)[English]Thank you.Last week we had a witness who—getting back to the TPP—said that it's not a well-kept secret that Mr. Obama or the current administration would like to supplant NAFTA with the TPP. Now, you had a similar question asked and you seemed to view it as two things that will continue to live in parallel. Is that really your feeling?Canada-United States relationsNorth American Free Trade AgreementSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitDavidJacobsonDavidJacobson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1210)[English]You've never heard that before. Very good.Thank you.DavidJacobsonDeanAllisonNiagara West—Glanbrook//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71434HélèneLaverdièreHélène-LaverdièreLaurier—Sainte-MarieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/LaverdièreHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène Laverdière (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, NDP): (1220)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would like to thank all our witnesses for their very interesting presentations this morning.My first question is for Mr. Jacobson.Mr. Jacobson, in your opinion as someone who has been an ambassador, what might be done during the next summit to improve cooperation between the three countries to address the threats posed by climate change?Canada-United States relationsClimate change and global warmingSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitDeanAllisonNiagara West—GlanbrookDavidJacobson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71434HélèneLaverdièreHélène-LaverdièreLaurier—Sainte-MarieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/LaverdièreHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène Laverdière: (1220)[Translation]Thank you very much. That was very interesting.Now, I have a bit of a challenge for some of the witnesses.Ms. Dawson, I was struck by what you said. You basically talked about our lack of resources in Washington to promote Canada's place. I, myself, spent four years in Washington, and I think I have some understanding of the challenges that entails.Mr. Miller, you spoke about the closure of consulates in the United States, which has affected average citizens, potential immigrants. In my riding, we supported people who had been forgotten by the Canadian consulates in the United States. It took some time before their files were resolved. There really is a challenge regarding the resources that we dedicate to the relationship with the United States.I would like to ask both of you to dream a little. Strategically speaking, where do you think the most important place is to assign our limited resources? In the consulates, in Washington, elsewhere? I'm asking you to speculate.Canada-United States relationsSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitDavidJacobsonEricMiller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, NDP): (1235)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for being here.My first question concerns supply. I don't share Mr. Hawn's position. Since he lives out west, he will certainly favour the beef market, but the pork, fish and timber markets, and supply management for poultry, eggs and milk are as important. In eastern Canada, in Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Quebec and Ontario, there are enormous consequences with potential reductions in supply management.We need to protect supply management as much as the beef market. It isn't one thing against the other. This is part of what Canada wants to develop to improve its economic situation. We can't go back to being a country that only does mining and exports all our raw products. We want to improve the situation of manufacturers. We also want primary processing to be done in the country. We want to create jobs and opportunities so that our country can develop.I would like you to come back to supply management. I will have other questions after that.Canada-United States relationsSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitSupply managementDeanAllisonNiagara West—GlanbrookLauraDawson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1240)[Translation]My second question has to do with customs operations.Mr. Miller, I think it was you who mentioned the importance of crossing the border more quickly by being preauthorized. You also talked about the NEXUS program.Isn't there a danger associated with what we might call the bar code? We can use bar codes on material items such as canned goods, but humans are another thing. We're talking about fingerprints and iris photographs. I agree that we need to provide security, but we also need to respect rights and be able to move more freely. People don't necessarily want to be filed in order to move more freely. Is there not a problem with that?BordersCanada-United States relationsFood labellingNEXUSSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitLauraDawsonEricMiller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58626Anne-MarieDayAnne-Marie-DayCharlesbourg—Haute-Saint-CharlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DayAnneMarie_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Anne-Marie Day: (1240)[Translation]I'll stop you there.When I crossed the border in 2004, some people ahead of me had to have their irises photographed and provide their fingerprints. They were chosen randomly. Since they were just transiting through, they had to do it quickly. There was no general obligation, but there were still actions taken in that sense.Canada-United States relationsSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitEricMillerEricMiller//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse (Louis-Saint-Laurent, NDP): (1125)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Ambassador, I have a few questions for you, then I will have some for Professor Frank.I would like to clarify something. You said that over two million French citizens live abroad. Obviously, that number doesn't include individuals in overseas departments and territories.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActFranceGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—LondonNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1125)[Translation]You already have the system in each of these overseas departments and territories. You have already arranged it so that those individuals can vote the same way as if they were in France. In fact, they are on French territory.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActFranceGovernment billsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.Nicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1125)[Translation]You said that there are also two million French citizens who live outside the national territory.Do you know how many of those French citizens vote, in general?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActFranceGovernment billsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.Nicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1125)[Translation]So about one million people.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActFranceGovernment billsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.Nicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1125)[Translation]I'll explain the basis of my question. According to the numbers we have currently, about 2.8 million Canadians live abroad. Of that number, barely 6,000 have participated in elections. In my opinion, the changes made by Bill C-50 won't help increase the number of these people and help these millions of Canadian citizens who, I think, have the right to vote but can't because the current system is just too complicated. I think these changes are instead harmful.I think that if we compare our system to the French system, which seems to really encourage every French citizen to take part in the electoral process, we will see that we still have a lot of work to do.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActFranceGovernment billsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.AlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1125)[Translation]Professor Frank, my question has to do with the other obstacles faced by Canadians living abroad. You spoke about it earlier.You and Mr. Reid mentioned the driver's licence. Information I recently received indicates that certain U.S. states require individuals who want a driver's licence from that state to give up the licence they already have. I was quite surprised to learn that. I find it very difficult to justify. Yet that's the kind of situation that we need to consider if we are asking Canadians to prove their residency, their identity and their citizenship using Canadian ID cards. I have a lot of trouble understanding why we are creating obstacles to voting.In terms of the postal system, you said that it sometimes takes three weeks. When I lived in Moscow, it would take three months to get a letter from my parents. We say we're trying to harmonize the system, but in reality, the experience of citizens living abroad is something else.Could you give me a reason that justifies the changes that we want to make to the Canadian electoral system?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersAlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentGillianFrank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1130)[Translation]Yes.GillianFrankGillianFrank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1130)[Translation]Thank you very much.GillianFrankJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—London//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, Lib.): (1130)[English]Thank you for the warm welcome, Mr. Chair. I appreciate it, as always.One thing you said, Ambassador, that I found quite striking and that seems to me prevalent everywhere, except for what we're facing now in this legislation, is that the system favours the voter. This to us is a default under section 3 of the charter, where it says that we have the right to vote. The government should do what it can to help enable that person to vote.One of the big problems we have with the bill we're dealing with in Canada is that you're eliminating the permanent list of voters. You have probably heard now by testimony how difficult it is, when an election is called, to exercise your right to vote. It becomes problematic. We don't have Internet voting and don't have the immediacy that you have. In your voters list, you said, you must register by December 31 for the following year. In essence, is that the list that you use on a permanent basis for all elections?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActElectronic votingGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—LondonNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1130)[English]This list, in your opinion and the government's opinion, helps to favour the voter, as you said, and allows and makes it an easier process to participate in all levels of governing.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.Nicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1130)[English]Thank you.One other thing is something you said that struck me as interesting. I haven't seen this yet. One of the problems the government cites is what we call “riding shopping”. If someone wants to vote in our election, which is “first past the post”, they can choose whatever riding they wish, which favours certain parties, or maybe not, but that's what they're leery about, and in many cases most of us would be. But you said you can provide a familial link in order to vote. Can I provide a birth certificate, if I were a French citizen living in Canada to allow me to vote in the district in which I was born?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.Nicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English]Okay.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.Nicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English] I see, so it's a direct family member who resides in a certain area. You can do that.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.Nicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[Translation]Thank you very much.[English]I don't have a lot of time. I wish I could spend more time with you, but I want to move to Dr. Frank.Considering the government is challenging Justice Penny's ruling, is it appropriate or not to be doing this Bill C-50? That's probably the easiest question you're going to get.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.GillianFrank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English]Is it appropriate to be proceeding with Bill C-50 at this time, given the fact of what the decision is and given the fact that the election is coming in October.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersGillianFrankGillianFrank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English]Given what was said by the French ambassador earlier, and listening to his testimony, do you feel that the system favours the voter in their case, their permanent list of electors? Would you agree with what the ambassador had put out there?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActFranceGovernment billsVoting and votersGillianFrankGillianFrank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English]I was surprised to hear that you had to hand in your driver's licence to do this, to sacrifice your own driver's licence in order to drive in the United States. This is one of the issues we're going with. As was pointed out earlier, and you quoted, this certainly is a solution in search of a problem. You also said Bill C-50 falls within this inglorious tradition of what you called voter suppression.The two things that are at play here, the permanent voters list as well as the time that it takes, in addition to your testimony, as Madame Latendresse also pointed out from being in Moscow, the disenfranchisement under Bill C-50 is now going to be astronomical as opposed to what it was before.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersGillianFrankGillianFrank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English] Given this, what is next for us? Is this particular legislation salvageable in any which way, shape, or form? Is there anything in this that you see that's palatable, acceptable, and maybe encouraging you to exercise your right under section 3 of the charter?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersGillianFrankGillianFrank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1135)[English]That certainly is a powerful message. GillianFrankJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—London//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1140)[Translation]Thank you very much. Your time is up.We will now move on to Mr. Dusseault for four minutes.Nicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.Pierre-LucDusseaultSherbrooke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke, NDP): (1140)[Translation]Thank you, Madam Chair.Mr. Ambassador, I would like to thank you for your very enriching presentation on the right to vote that is facilitated for French citizens living abroad.Along the same lines, I would like to know a bit more about Internet voting for French citizens living abroad. From what I've understood from your presentation, they can register electronically on the electoral list abroad. When an election is under way, a French voter living abroad can also vote by Internet. Did I understand that correctly?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActFranceGovernment billsVoting and votersAlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault: (1145)[Translation]I suppose the Internet voting process is very quick. A voter can register at any time during the election and be verified as a voter living abroad, and vote fairly quickly.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActCanadians in foreign countriesGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.Nicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault: (1145)[Translation]Thank you for that clarification on the electronic voting system.I also wanted to ask Professor Frank a few questions and thank him for being here.In your opinion, is Bill C-50 an adequate response to the court ruling? Is it the response you expected, yourself being a stakeholder in this matter before the court? Do you think the government's Bill C-50 is a satisfactory response?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActElectronic votingGovernment billsVoting and votersNicolas Marcel JacquesChapuisH.E.GillianFrank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault: (1145)[Translation]I am going to continue along the same lines. You may suggest something else, but do you think that simply removing the restriction concerning the five years of residence abroad could have been a simple, quick and adequate response?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActCanadians in foreign countriesElectronic votingGovernment billsVoting and votersGillianFrankGillianFrank//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault: (1145)[Translation]Thank you very much.GillianFrankAlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Professor Frank. I would also like to thank Ambassador Chapuis. On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank you for being here today and for your testimony on the study of the bill.There are no other questions at the moment, and we have a few minutes left. Does anyone have a brief question to ask? If not, we will suspend the meeting in order to move on to the next panel of witnesses for the next hour.[English]Mr. Richards.Pierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookeBlakeRichardsWild Rose//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1150)[English] You have a quick question, Mr. Christopherson?BlakeRichardsWild RoseDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1150)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Christopherson.Once again, I would like to thank the witnesses.We will suspend the meeting to welcome the next witnesses.(1150)(1200)DavidChristophersonHamilton CentreAlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1200)[Translation]We are resuming the meeting.We are continuing the study of Bill C-50. I would like to thank the witnesses very much for being here today.If everyone is in agreement, I will start with Mr. Paterson and Mr. Biggar because they are appearing by video conference. That way, we can at least be sure that we'll hear their opening remarks in case a technical problem arises. We will then move on to Professor Milner.To start, I invite Mr. Paterson of the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association to make his presentation.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActAlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentJoshPaterson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1205)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Paterson.Mr. Biggar, you have the floor.JoshPatersonJamieBiggar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1210)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Biggar.I will now give the floor to our next guest, Professor Milner.JamieBiggarHenryMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1215)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Milner.We have lost the connection with Vancouver, but it will be back shortly.We can still start the first round of questions with Mr. Reid. As soon as we can, we will reconnect with our witnesses in Vancouver.HenryMilnerScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1225)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Reid and Professor Milner.[English]Welcome back to our guests in B.C. Some questions might be directed to you.I'm going to Mr. Scott for seven minutes now.ScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and AddingtonCraigScottToronto—Danforth//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1230)[Translation]Mr. Simms, you have seven minutes.CraigScottToronto—DanforthScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1230)[English] Thank you, Madam Chair.I want to thank our guests in British Columbia, and here as well, for joining us.This issue about provisional voting came up the last time. I think the concept is being put out there as a way of encouraging voting, but my opinion is that we're overlooking the obvious every time we bring up provisional voting. In other words, it may be a solution to some people in certain cases, but if you restore the international permanent list, it goes much further. With provisional voting, as my colleague from Cape Breton would point out, all we're doing is moving the house in order to tighten up the clothesline. What we should be doing is saying that the international list should be created permanently. As Mr. Biggar pointed out, we want low barriers, high motivation.I'm going to start with Mr. Biggar on this one. Obviously the high motivation is in your domain, given Leadnow and what it does to get people to vote. However, the lower barriers issue, which you pointed out in the beginning, is becoming very uncertain. We can no longer use the voter information card with Bill C-23. I would assume—yes or no, Mr. Biggar—about the international list on a permanent basis....C-23, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act and other Acts and to make consequential amendments to certain ActsC-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersAlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentJamieBiggar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1235)[English]Mr. Biggar, do you come into contact with a lot of expat voters, people living outside of Canada?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersJamieBiggarJamieBiggar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1235)[English]Are they primarily American?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersJamieBiggarJamieBiggar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1235)[English]Okay.The other issue that was brought up by our two gentlemen in British Columbia was the one voucher per voter rule. The way you outlined it is that it becomes problematic once they're unable to establish their last place of residency. This is just one more impediment on top of an impediment that was not there before. Is that correct?I'll let both of you answer that, Mr. Paterson and Mr. Biggar. C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersJamieBiggarJoshPaterson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1235)[English]Thank you, gentlemen.I want to turn to Mr. Milner. You said that we cannot find other countries that are not as restrictive—C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersJoshPatersonHenryMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1235)[English]There are very few. Okay. Well, then, of the few that are restrictive...for instance, you said that in Australia there's a six-year thing but that they can re-register.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersHenryMilnerHenryMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1235)[English]Would you say that most of them require a permanent list to be created?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersHenryMilnerHenryMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1235)[English]You don't have to re-register when the writ is dropped.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersHenryMilnerHenryMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1235)[English] Can you do that at any time?HenryMilnerHenryMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]You said that, in general, countries try to encourage voting. In your study and analysis—C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersHenryMilnerHenryMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]In your opinion, does Bill C-50 go in an opposite direction? It's certainly different.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersHenryMilnerHenryMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]Oh, I'm out of time, am I?HenryMilnerAlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1240)[Translation]You have five seconds left.ScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]Okay, Mr. Milner, Mr. Paterson, Mr. Biggar, thank you for your time.AlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentHenryMilner//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1240)[Translation]Thank you, Professor Milner.Mr. Richards, you now have the floor for four minutes.HenryMilnerBlakeRichardsWild Rose//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1245)[Translation]Thank you, Professor Milner and Mr. Richards.Mr. Christopherson, you have four minutes.HenryMilnerDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1250)[Translation]Mr. Paterson or Mr. Biggar, there are a few minutes left to respond.DavidChristophersonHamilton CentreJoshPaterson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1250)[English]We're out of time.Mr. Richards, you have four minutes.DavidChristophersonHamilton CentreBlakeRichardsWild Rose//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1255)[Translation]There is no one else on my list. I will give committee members the opportunity to ask brief questions. Otherwise, we will adjourn the meeting.I would like to thank Professor Milner for being at the committee meeting, and Mr. Paterson and Mr. Biggar for joining us to make their presentation and answer all the committee members' questions.Your contribution was greatly appreciated.[English]The meeting is adjourned.BlakeRichardsWild Rose//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, NDP): (1020)[English]I think we'll leave the artistry to members on our side.Earlier this year we found out through an access to information request that the federal government hired just 22 out of its 1,000 interns since 2008. So we know that internships often don't result in paid employment and also contribute to a cycle of youth underemployment and youth unemployment. Unlike the bill that the NDP proposed, Bill C-636, C-636, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (unpaid training), the current proposed budget implementation act doesn't actually restrict non-academic internships. So, Claire, could you just talk about the risks of the allowance of unpaid academic unpaid internships and the effect that it could have on labour and the labour market?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresC-636, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (unpaid training)InternshipsLabour marketStudentsUnpaid workJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducClaireSeaborn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1025)[English]So what would be your response to those who claim that new Canadians, for example, should have these opportunities to work for free for employers, Ms. Seaborn?Then, Mr. Gleason, if you have anything to add, please go ahead.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresClaireSeabornClaireSeaborn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1025)[English]What would be the case for new Canadians? Do you think that new Canadians should be forced to work for free to gain workplace experience?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresImmigration and immigrantsUnpaid workWork-based trainingClaireSeabornClaireSeaborn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1025)[English]Mr. Champagne, would you agree with that?ClaireSeabornJonathanChampagne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1025)[English]Thank you.Going back to the issue of sexual harassment, which is actually not covered in the BIA, we know that unpaid interns tend to be very young and very open to exploitation, and we also know that women tend to be overrepresented in unpaid internships. So taking those things into consideration, I'd just like to read into the record the definition of sexual harassment found in the Canadian Labour Code. Sexual harassment is defined there as:any conduct, comment, gesture or contact of a sexual nature(a) that is likely to cause offence or humiliation to any employee; or(b) that might, on reasonable grounds, be perceived by that employee as placing a condition of a sexual nature on employment or on any opportunity for training or promotion.Now, is there any reason whatsoever that protections from sexual harassment should not be included as an amendment in the BIA as opposed to in a regulation? Mr. Gleason, you commented on this earlier. Ms. Seaborn, would you have anything to add to that?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresInternshipsLegislationSexual harassmentJonathanChampagneClaireSeaborn//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1025)[English]Mr. Champagne?JamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJonathanChampagne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71517LaurinLiuLaurin-LiuRivière-des-Mille-ÎlesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LiuLaurin_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Laurin Liu: (1025)[English]Mr. Farrell, thank you for your testimony today. Would you also agree that sexual harassment should be included as an amendment in the BIA, rather than as a regulation?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresInternshipsLegislationSexual harassmentJonathanChampagneJohnFarrell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre (Alfred-Pellan, NDP): (0925)[Translation]Thank you.I would like to add a francophone touch to those beautiful words directed at my colleagues. I would like to thank my colleagues from all the parties, especially the three leaving. You have always been extremely kind and cordial, especially with the new MPs, and I thank you for that. I have learned a lot from you. I have learned a great deal from the professional way in which you interact, and I can never thank you enough for that.In the first weeks after we arrived at Parliament, in 2011, after a hard day's work, I was shocked to see a minister, two NDP members and one Liberal member sharing a pizza and drinking beer on a patio on Sparks Street. That truly gave me faith in humanity and in our Parliament. As Rick mentioned, it is true that we attack each other a lot during question period, but outside work, we can all get along well. I have learned a lot from most of my colleagues from all the parties in the House. I wish you a happy retirement and the best of luck in your future endeavours. I will always imagine that you are watching me when I rise in the House during question period. You will be there to watch me and I will try to do a good job.Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Clause-by-clause studyCommittee businessFirearms permitsSafetyDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère (Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, NDP): (1605)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My question is for Mr. Ferguson. It is a little more general.This is not the first report you submit to us on matters pertaining to first nations. Very unfortunately, these reports tell us time and again that first nations don't have all of the services they might expect. Promises made are hardly, if ever, kept.In Canada, in terms of services, would it be that there is one set of criteria for Canadians and another for first nations? In fact, given the number of reports tabled in recent years indicating that first nations still have poor quality services, the question arises. Are there two standards for the public service? If not, how do you explain that once again a report is indicating that first nations are not receiving what they should?First NationsHealth services accessibilityRemote communitiesReport 4, Access to Health Services for Remote First Nations Communities, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreMichaelFerguson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1610)[Translation]Mr. Ferguson, in point 4.4, you talk about social determinants as one of the essential aspects that harm the health of first nations' members the most. You talk specifically about overcrowded housing, high rates of unemployment and problems with access to drinking water. The problems mean that first nations currently have a considerably lower life expectancy than the general Canadian population. Statistics Canada data indicate that these problems are very serious and that, unfortunately, with the very significant population growth of first nations, they are worsening rather than resolving themselves.You told us about coordination among the different stakeholders. Since prevention and public health are important aspects of access to health care, I would like to know if, in terms of coordination, the department is making an effort to resolve problems that aggravate the health of first nations individuals, for example the lack of access to drinking water, overcrowded housing and poor follow-up for psychological care, which results in very high suicide rates.Are efforts really being made to address these problems? I won't even get into problems with food, which are significant all over Canada.Drinking waterFirst NationsHealth services accessibilityRemote communitiesReport 4, Access to Health Services for Remote First Nations Communities, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaMichaelFergusonMichaelFerguson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1655)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Perron, on page 3 of your presentation, you indicate an 88% compliance rate for controlled substances. I did a bit of medical law during my internship and if the non-compliance rate was close to 1%, the Order of Pharmacists of Quebec would intervene. You say that the non-compliance rate is 24 times higher than what is accepted in a hospital. I wouldn't be pleased with that.Can you explain to me how your service came to distribute such a high rate, 12%, of non-compliant medications? That is really huge. That is between 24 and 36 times higher than what is acceptable in a hospital in Montreal or Toronto.First NationsHealth services accessibilityPharmaceuticalsRemote communitiesReport 4, Access to Health Services for Remote First Nations Communities, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreSonyPerron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1655)[Translation]The overall compliance rate for your service is 46%. That kind of percentage won't get you a degree. Even 65% won't get you the kind of degree that you would want to boast about.First NationsHealth services accessibilityNursesRemote communitiesReport 4, Access to Health Services for Remote First Nations Communities, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaSonyPerronSonyPerron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1655)[Translation]We've been talking about administering care, but in health care, there's also the aspect of prevention. I don't know if you if you read the documents from the Cree Board of Health and Social Services of James Bay concerning nutrition problems in Canada. Unfortunately, there are people who are dying because they don't have decent drinking water, because they don't have healthy food to eat, and because there is no follow-up for major psychological care. People are really dying. These people can't wait five years.There needs to be a change in attitudes, because we can't function this way. You can't ask us to look elsewhere when people are dying.First NationsHealth services accessibilityNursesRemote communitiesReport 4, Access to Health Services for Remote First Nations Communities, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaSonyPerronSonyPerron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1700)[Translation]Excuse me, but there is a problem here. Everything you're saying is all well and good. But as concerns the problem and the solution, if you look at this situation from a statistical point of view, you can see that the situation is getting worse. It is not improving. This is a major problem. We are able to prove statistically that communities are in danger. What will it take for the situation to improve even a little bit? I'm not talking about stabilizing things, but improving things. We can't go backwards.First NationsHealth services accessibilityRemote communitiesReport 4, Access to Health Services for Remote First Nations Communities, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaSonyPerronSonyPerron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke, NDP)): (1525)[Translation]Good afternoon and welcome to the 38th meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics.We have committee business on today's agenda. I see that the members of the committee are ready to begin discussions. So I will give the floor to them. They will decide what the committee will be working on over the course of the six remaining meetings. Therefore, I give the floor to the first members who asked to speak.Ms. Borg, go ahead.Committee businessCharmaineBorgTerrebonne—Blainville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg (Terrebonne—Blainville, NDP): (1525)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I am pleased to move the following motion:That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h), the Committee undertake a study of the report of the Information Commissioner, entitled “Investigation into an access to information request for the Long-Gun Registry” referred to the Committee on May 14, 2015; that as part of the study the Committee request from the Department of Justice all of its documents relating to this case; that the Committee invite as part of the study the Information Commissioner of Canada, the Attorney General of Canada, the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, the Minister of Finance, the Commissioner of the RCMP, the RCMP ATIP Coordinator, the Director of the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, and the RCMP officers who destroyed the registry data; and that the Committee report its findings to the House.Mr. Chair, what we saw in the House of Commons—Bill C-59—is without precedent. The objective of the bill is to retroactively amend the Access to Information Act, so that all data on the long gun registry would be exempt from the legislation. The Information Commissioner characterized it as a very dangerous precedent.Mr. Chair, we have to respect a quasi-constitutional right—access to government information for Canadians. A complaint was submitted by a citizen because he could not access the data, as the RCMP had destroyed all of it knowing that a complaint had been submitted to the Information Commissioner of Canada. That is a serious problem.In addition, a bill that has been introduced seeks to retroactively legitimate the RCMP's actions. That is a very dangerous precedent. Every time the government violates a piece of legislation or decides not to comply with it, the legislation could be amended retroactively. We would be living in a world with no responsibility whatsoever. It's very worrisome.(1530)[English] Mr. Chair, I want to take some time to speak about what we saw here at committee. These are just some of the things the Information Commissioner has said following the report that she brought forward. It's our duty to study this further because Canadians have the right to access, they have the right to know. That's their quasi-constitutional right and that right now is at risk.I want to read one thing that she said to the media: “Each member of Parliament is going to have to look themselves in the mirror and decide whether they can, in their own integrity, actually vote in favour of those proposed amendments.” Of course, she's talking here about Bill C-59, because it sets a very worrisome precedent.[Translation]I ask all the members of this committee to read the report referred to us. We are not asking the committee go beyond its duties or its mandate, as the report was referred to the committee for consideration. We are really dealing with an exceptional situation. The Information Commissioner of Canada pointed out that a law has been violated. So it's very important for us to consider this.That said, I will give you a moment to think about it. I hope we will vote in favour of the motion. That is what Canadians deserve, as their right of access to information is concerned.8560-412-734-06 Special Report of the Information Commissioner entitled "Investigation into an access to information request for the Long-gun Registry"Access to information requestsC-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCommittee businessFirearms registryLong gunsMatter under committee considerationMotionsOffice of the Information Commissioner of CanadaPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookePierre-LucDusseaultSherbrooke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1530)[Translation]Thank you.The motion has been put forward, and it is in order.We can start weighing the pros and the cons of the proposed study, starting with Mr. Angus.Committee businessCharmaineBorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1535)[Translation]Mr. Angus, thank you for your comments.We will continue discussing Ms. Borg's motion.Mr. Simms, the floor is yours.CharlieAngusTimmins—James BayScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, Lib.): (1535)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.[English]Very briefly, to add to what has already been said, the one thing I want to emphasize is that it is certainly under the purview of this committee and is certainly very important to do. We have seen this issue being played out in the media quite a bit. Every time we seek a response, all we get is talk about a particular policy eliminating the long gun registry. It's not about a long gun registry; it's about law. It's about how we deal with laws and about a process by which we can undo due diligence in this country. We can undo a process that we honour so much in this democracy.I would like to see these witnesses come in to find out if anybody has raised any red flags to say this is not a good thing, for all these reasons. It seems to me that only one person did. We need to hear from the others, to allow them to be in front of this committee for the sake of saying what they went through and how this can be fixed, because I think a lot of people here are silent, and they probably don't want to be silent about this issue. I'd like to make sure we handle this in the right way and it doesn't happen again.Thank you.8560-412-734-06 Special Report of the Information Commissioner entitled "Investigation into an access to information request for the Long-gun Registry"Access to information requestsCommittee businessFirearms registryLong gunsMatter under committee considerationOffice of the Information Commissioner of CanadaPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookePierre-LucDusseaultSherbrooke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[Translation]Thank you for your comments, Mr. Simms.Since there is no one left on the list regarding Ms. Borg's motion, I call the question.(Motion negatived)The Chair: The committee has decided.We have six more meetings before the session ends, on June 22.We have to decide what work the committee will undertake until the end of the session. Mr. Angus has a proposal.Mr. Angus, go ahead.Committee businessScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorCharlieAngusTimmins—James Bay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Angus.The motion as moved is in order.We will now debate it.Ms. Borg, go ahead.Committee businessCharlieAngusTimmins—James BayCharmaineBorgTerrebonne—Blainville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1540)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to support my colleague's motion to increase the funding for those three commissioners. When they testified last week, they told us they were making as many cuts as possible, but that they have run up against a wall. Their current funding no longer enables them to fulfill their mandate.The Office of the Information Commissioner even went through a crisis. At the end of last fiscal year, the commissioner made an urgent request for a funding increase. She had only 0.2% of her budget left. She was worried, not about her office, but about Canadians' right of access to information. I repeat that the right is quasi-constitutional. By failing to allocate our commissioners the funding that enables them to continue to operate and do everything their mandate requires, we are letting Canadians down. That is the key issue.The Privacy Commissioner, who has been assigned new responsibilities, told us that he was managing for now, but that he could not get through another fiscal year after the implementation of Bills S-4 and C-51. Many bills directly affect his activities. He will be asked to carry out more and more tasks with less and less funding, and that's unreasonable. He said that he could not go on much longer with the current funding. The Lobbying Commissioner also said that it was becoming increasingly difficult for him to deliver on his mandate with the funding he receives.In closing, I would like to say that the commissioners are there to implement an accountability system, so that someone oversees our actions as parliamentarians, and those of lobbyists, and to ensure that regulations and acts are being complied with. Their actions are being limited when they are not given an opportunity to carry out their activities properly. It's as if we were saying to those tasked with overseeing us that we no longer want their oversight. It is really disgraceful.I would really like us to give serious consideration to this motion and not to cast it aside as we have others. As my colleague said, I think it would be good for the future Parliament to provide the commissioners with the funding they need to deliver on their mandate properly.Thank you.C-51, An Act to enact the Security of Canada Information Sharing Act and the Secure Air Travel Act, to amend the Criminal Code, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act and the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other ActsCommittee businessS-4, An Act to amend the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act and to make a consequential amendment to another ActPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookePierre-LucDusseaultSherbrooke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[Translation]Thank you for your comments on Mr. Angus' motion, Ms. Borg.We are continuing the discussion with Mr. Simms.CharmaineBorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1545)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.[English]I don't think it would be too taxing of the committee to do this. We've heard what is going on from an assortment of witness testimony, which has laid the base for doing this. If they came in and focused on what their respective offices required, I don't think it would take long at all. I think it would make for an interesting report back to the House.Committee businessPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookePierre-LucDusseaultSherbrooke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[Translation]Thank you.If no one else would like to speak to the motion, we will move to the vote.(Motion negatived)Committee businessScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrooke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[Translation]Are there any other proposals regarding the rest of our committee's work until June 22?Mr. Calandra, did you want to propose something?Committee businessPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookePaulCalandraOak Ridges—Markham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1545)[Translation]As the motion to adjourn is not subject to debate, we will vote on it right away.(Motion agreed to)The Chair: The meeting is adjourned.Committee businessPaulCalandraOak Ridges—Markham//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls (Vaudreuil-Soulanges, NDP): (1610)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Minister, Mr. Davies and Mr. Cuzner asked about the youth employment strategy and I also have a few questions about that. The department tells a different story from yours. You talked about the unused amounts, but I would rather talk about the inefficiency in managing the distribution of funds and the implementation of the programs.A document from the department focuses on the expiry of funds. It says: “The difference is due to delays in implementing Skills Link and Career Focus projects”. We have seen many problems with the implementation of this program, especially in Quebec. My colleague from Saint-Lambert repeatedly shared them with your predecessor, Mr. Kenney.Can you tell us what is causing these delays in implementing Skills Link and Career Focus projects?Department of Employment and Social DevelopmentMain estimates 2015-2016Skills Link programYouth employmentYouth Employment StrategyPhilMcColemanBrantPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1615)[Translation]You know as well as I do that the needs of employers are time dependent. Young people are looking for work. If the way the program operates is ineffective and there is a disconnect with the funding of the program, flaws arise in the system.Here is my next question. Has the unused $32 million been reallocated and, if so, for what purpose?Department of Employment and Social DevelopmentMain estimates 2015-2016Youth employmentYouth Employment StrategyPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—CarletonIanShugart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1615)[Translation]So it will still be for this program, but it will be carried over to next year.Department of Employment and Social DevelopmentMain estimates 2015-2016IanShugartIanShugart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1615)[Translation]What do you intend to do to ensure that the 2015-16 funding for the youth employment strategy will be used as effectively and fully as possible? Department of Employment and Social DevelopmentMain estimates 2015-2016Youth Employment StrategyIanShugartPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1615)[Translation]How will you improve the effectiveness of the program?PierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—CarletonPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71566JamieNichollsJamie-NichollsVaudreuil-SoulangesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/NichollsJamie_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jamie Nicholls: (1615)[Translation]But first, Mr. Minister, let me be more specific. I would like to talk about the results and make things clearer for Canadians, because they are not really familiar with the youth employment strategy.What projects are currently funded under the three streams of the youth employment strategy and how will they be improved?Department of Employment and Social DevelopmentMain estimates 2015-2016Youth Employment StrategyPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—CarletonIanShugart//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai (Brossard—La Prairie, NDP): (1635)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'd also like to thank the witnesses here today, as well as those joining us via videoconference.My question is for Mr. Toderian.You talked about the importance of public transit and about cycling and pedestrians. The federal government, however, is responsible for infrastructure. In the budget, the government earmarked future funding for public transit, but it isn't effective yet.The P3 approach is another factor. We don't have a national plan or federal strategy for public transit.From your experience and given what other countries have done, how would a national public transit plan help?Cities and townsInfrastructurePublic transitLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundBrentToderian//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1640)[Translation]You mentioned Australia. Could you give us an example of a country in the opposite situation, in other words, a federal government with a public transit plan?InfrastructureBrentToderianBrentToderian//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin (Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, NDP): (1605)[Translation]Since we only have five minutes, my questions will be short.Ms. Schroeder, I am very interested in the mental health of seniors. The numbers you gave us are very troubling. Many seniors tell me about the obstacles they are facing. You talked at length about shame, which we often hear about. It is not always easy for children to realize that their parents have mental health problems. They wonder how to meet with responders and how to help their parents.Your approach is much more centred on cooperation. You mentioned a few practical examples. If you know of any model initiatives on awareness, prevention and reducing the stigma, could you tell us about them? What could we do? What are the model initiatives? What is the role of the Mental Health Commission of Canada in sharing these initiatives? You also talked about housing, which I think is very important. I sometimes receive people at my office who tell me that they have trouble finding housing. This is a challenge first, because they are seniors and, second, because they have mental health problems. It is very difficult for them to find housing. Do you have solutions to suggest to us?Best practicesCaregivers and health care professionalsGovernment assistanceHome care for elderly peopleHousingMental healthSenior citizensBenLobbHuron—BruceBonnieSchroeder//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis (Saint-Maurice—Champlain, Lib.): (1615)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you very much to all the witnesses.I don't usually sit on this committee. I am replacing someone.When you talk about our seniors, I would like to know whether I am considered one or not. How do you describe a senior? That is my first question.My second point has to do with the shame related to aging. It might be more appropriate perhaps to talk about “difficulty”. You did not talk about loneliness when you gave the definition of people who are ashamed to grow older, whether by drinking, by taking drugs or in any other way.Furthermore, what is your main expectation from the federal framework for suicide prevention?My last question is for the three of you. If you had to choose one priority only in what you are proposing to the government, what would it be? From everything you have said, what is the most important aspect in the prevention of suicide among seniors? Of course, an increase in the budget would be appreciated, but I don't think that's all. I think you might expect something else and I would like to know what it is.Health services accessibilityMental healthPsychotherapy and psychotherapistsSenior citizensSuicidesBenLobbHuron—BruceBonnieSchroeder//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): (1640)[Translation]Thank you very much.My questions are for Mr. Beaulieu.In your presentation, you talked about stories for children that deal with mental illness and that have been translated. I think you have translated four so far. Could you tell me what impact talking to children about mental illness has on society? In your view, are there enough tools right now that parents and teachers can use to talk about mental illness to children?ChildrenInformation disseminationMental healthBenLobbHuron—BruceGhislainBeaulieu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1645)[Translation]You often feature people dealing with mental health issues, but who have nonetheless been able to cope with them and have adapted well. What impact does this have on individuals with mental illnesses?Information disseminationMental healthPrejudiceGhislainBeaulieuGhislainBeaulieu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1645)[Translation]Do you feel that the interventions sometimes focus too much on the cure—the medication—and sort of overlook the process of support, of adapting a lifestyle to a health status?Information disseminationMental healthPharmaceuticalsGhislainBeaulieuGhislainBeaulieu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1645)[Translation]Thank you. My time is unfortunately up. It was a pleasure to hear from you.GhislainBeaulieuBenLobbHuron—Bruce//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1650)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I have two questions for Mr. Beaulieu.BenLobbHuron—BruceLiseSt-DenisSaint-Maurice—Champlain//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1650)[Translation]A $1-million donation is really a lot of money. How did you resolve the potential issue with the health care system? You have received a lot of money in grants to address mental health problems. How did the health care system respond?Do you provide funding to change people's attitudes? You could change attitudes with so much money. I am very familiar with Rouyn-Noranda. People have their preconceived notions in small communities. The smaller the community, the more stigma there is; the larger the community, the less stigma there is. Have you set aside any funds for working on that aspect of mental health recognition?Fondation Martin-BradleyInformation disseminationMental healthPrejudiceLiseSt-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainGhislainBeaulieu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1655)[Translation]I have another question for you.Do you have contacts with people from other municipalities—in Quebec or the rest of Canada—who are interested in your project?Information disseminationMental healthGhislainBeaulieuGhislainBeaulieu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1700)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Mr. Beaulieu, you talked a lot about housing, which I found very interesting. Could you tell us more about the importance of housing for someone with mental health problems? You also talked about older people living with those kinds of problems.Can you tell us about the significance of those problems in terms of age? How does someone with mental health problems benefit from living in an apartment instead of in a centre where all those services are provided?HousingMental healthSenior citizensBenLobbHuron—BruceGhislainBeaulieu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1705)[Translation]How many people who live in the housing you provide go on to live somewhere else without any assistance? Approximately how much time do they spend in your housing?HousingMental healthGhislainBeaulieuGhislainBeaulieu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1705)[Translation]Does the approach change depending on whether the individual is a young adult or an older person?HousingMental healthSenior citizensGhislainBeaulieuGhislainBeaulieu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1705)[Translation]My understanding is that families gave you substantial sums of money to help you establish your foundation. Now, you operate through fundraising. You are lucky to have had access to that money in your community.What do you think the government's role is? If we wanted to apply your model in other cities, villages or communities in Canada, what kind of a role could the government play to help a similar project see the light of day?Associations, institutions and organizationsGovernment assistanceMental healthGhislainBeaulieuGhislainBeaulieu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71477IsabelleMorinIsabelle-MorinNotre-Dame-de-Grâce—LachineNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinIsabelle_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Isabelle Morin: (1710)[Translation]Great. Thank you very much.GhislainBeaulieuBenLobbHuron—Bruce//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1785IrwinCotlerHon.Irwin-CotlerMount RoyalLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CotlerIrwin_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Irwin Cotler (Mount Royal, Lib.): (1305)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chairman.This is something I raised in the last meeting, about inviting Mr. Yigal Carmon, the president of MEMRI, to come and address us on the deteriorating situation in the Middle East, with particular reference to ISIS, Iran, Iraq, Syria, and the like. We had approval in principle, but it was to be framed in the form of a motion so that we could then arrange for his testimony in the ensuing days of our hearings. That's the motion before us.(Motion agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])Committee businessWayneMarstonHamilton East—Stoney CreekWayneMarstonHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71407TyroneBenskinTyrone-BenskinJeanne-Le BerNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BenskinTyrone_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tyrone Benskin (Jeanne-Le Ber, NDP): (1400)[English]Thank you.Thank you for your presence here today. I want to commend your courage as well as your compatriots', in the diaspora and at home in Vietnam, for your continued work towards human rights changes.I want to add my voice to my colleague Mr. Sweet's in regard to my concern that Vietnam is a member state of the United Nations, yet is not adhering to the promises they've put forward.Both of you have come here out of great risk to your own persons. I would like to ask you, for the record, if you are concerned about reprisals when you return home to Vietnam, and what protections, if any, you have upon that return.Civil and human rightsMilitants and activistsPersonal securityVietnamWayneMarstonHamilton East—Stoney CreekMinh TamTruong//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1785IrwinCotlerHon.Irwin-CotlerMount RoyalLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CotlerIrwin_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Irwin Cotler: (1400)[English]Yes, I just want to echo Mr. Sweet's previous comments. I regard it as scandalous really that Vietnam can continue to be a member of the UN Human Rights Council and sit in judgment of matters of human rights while enjoying a form of exculpatory immunity, if not being rewarded, by being able to sit on that council. That is something we should be taking up.I just have very quick questions for Ms. Nguyen. I take to heart what you said regarding the taking of the prisoners of conscience. Because of time constraints, I have two quick questions.One, do you have any comments about gender-based violence or violations of women's rights in Vietnam?The second is that at this point there are serious restrictions on freedom of expression. Vietnam is ranked 174 out 180 countries in Reporters Without Borders' freedom of expression index. My question is this. Do you find there is increasing attention being paid to bloggers and people on the Internet rather than controlling freedom of expression in the traditional media?Blogs and microblogsCivil and human rightsInternetPolitical prisonersSexual discriminationVietnamViolence against womenWayneMarstonHamilton East—Stoney CreekTrinhNguyen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1785IrwinCotlerHon.Irwin-CotlerMount RoyalLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CotlerIrwin_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Irwin Cotler: (1405)[English]I meant both.Civil and human rightsSexual discriminationVietnamViolence against womenTrinhNguyenTrinhNguyen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/1785IrwinCotlerHon.Irwin-CotlerMount RoyalLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CotlerIrwin_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Irwin Cotler: (1405)[English]Thank you.TrinhNguyenWayneMarstonHamilton East—Stoney Creek//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai (Brossard—La Prairie, NDP): (1410)[English]I'd like to thank the members of the committee for giving me the chance to ask questions.[Member speaks in Vietnamese]One of the main things that are important for us after this is to make sure that when you return to Vietnam you will be safe, so hopefully we can work together in order to make sure that you do not experience reprisals that will be harmful.My question is to Ms. Nguyen. Regarding the fact that Canada can and has to do more to help human rights in Vietnam, can you tell us about the importance of maybe talking about human rights while we're negotiating the TPP?Civil and human rightsInternational relationsTrans-Pacific PartnershipVietnamWayneMarstonHamilton East—Stoney CreekTrinhNguyen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1125)[Translation]I have two questions, and one of them is about tourism.A conference board of Canada report recommends reforms in the air transport sector, where the high taxes and tariffs make Canada an expensive destination, unfortunately.Does the department intend to act on that?Air transportationDepartment of IndustryMain estimates 2015-2016TourismDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleJohnKnubley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1125)[Translation]So the matter of transport is studied.Department of IndustryMain estimates 2015-2016JohnKnubleyJohnKnubley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1125)[Translation]My other question is about the long-form census questionnaire. I questioned the minister on this topic last Tuesday.In the business world, just as in the scientific community, people are concerned about the changes made to the census. Businesses feel that they are the losers, quite simply. They say that this could have repercussions on market studies. When you want to open somewhere, you look at the household income levels in the area, as well as the social and economic components. That is what Martine Hébert pointed out, and she is a spokesperson for the Canadian Federation of Independent Business.The Canadian Chamber of Commerce and the Canadian Federation of Independent Business have concerns about this. And yet the minister refuses to change the census. Given these facts, how are you going to be able to calm the fears of SMEs?Department of IndustryLong-form census questionnaireMain estimates 2015-2016JohnKnubleyJohnKnubley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1125)[Translation]Certain cities, such as Calgary and Edmonton, are going to do their own censuses. I fear that the municipalities and the provinces are going to be forced to conduct their own censuses to solve this problem.Department of IndustryMain estimates 2015-2016JohnKnubleyJohnKnubley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse (Louis-Saint-Laurent, NDP): (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Minister, I have a number of questions for you and I'm going to try to get them all out in the three minutes I have. I want to make sure I fully understand how the process works when an elector living in the same riding attests to the place of residence of an elector who is abroad. I'm not talking about the same polling station. For example, in the case of a family living abroad where the parents of one of the members of the couple still live in the riding, that person's parents are allowed to make a declaration for only one of the two people in the couple, and no more than one person. Is that correct?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—LondonPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1145)[Translation]That means, then, that in the case of two parents with two voting-aged children, those children will each have to find someone from the same riding to make a declaration proving that they indeed used to live at that address. C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—CarletonPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1145)[Translation]Of course. But in the case of a family that has been living abroad for 10 years, every time an election is held, they are going to have to go through the same process to prove their former address in Canada. They are going to have to find electors to attest to their last place of residence in Canada. They're going to have to go through that process every single time and only once the election is called. Is that correct? C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActCanadians in foreign countriesGovernment billsVoting and votersPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—CarletonPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1145)[Translation]Aside from making it a lot harder for people living abroad to vote, is there a reason for applying the same rules across the board? Every witness who appeared before the committee on the International Register of Electors and our voting system said there were no problems with the current situation, no issues with fraud, no problem with the procedure. Apart from applying the rules across the board as a matter of principle, is there any actual reason warranting the change? Is there the slightest indication to suggest that the system will work better or somehow be improved? C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActCanadians in foreign countriesGovernment billsVoting and votersPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—CarletonPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1145)[Translation]Because the two situations are different. Electors living abroad can provide proof of residence in the country where they are currently living. But it would likely be difficult for them to provide proof of an address where they lived 10 or 20 years ago. We were told very clearly that if the elector is able to provide proof of where they lived in Canada and if their parents or sibling, say, still lives there, that information will remain on the register as long as there hasn't been a change. If the person comes back to Canada and moves to another riding, that's one thing, but until then, why not keep the register as it is now in order to make it easier for these electors to vote rather than harder, which is what Bill C-50 does? C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActCanadians in foreign countriesGovernment billsVoting and votersPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—CarletonPierrePoilievreHon.Nepean—Carleton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre (Alfred-Pellan, NDP): (1015)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would also like to thank Mr. Lapensée, Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Stock for joining us today to discuss division 10 of part 3 of Bill C-59.I will start with you, Mr. Ferguson. In your remarks, you said that you have already recommended that the House of Commons administration and the Senate administration collaborate on establishing a unified security force.Today, you have shared your main recommendations. However, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police would also be added to an integrated force on Parliament Hill. The intent is for the RCMP to be put in charge of that unified security force, which would also include RCMP members. What do you think about that?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresChain of commandGovernment billsParliamentary Protective ServiceRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsMichaelFerguson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1015)[Translation]Mr. Lapensée said earlier that he felt that mixing executive and legislative powers as proposed in the bill was problematic.Do you agree with him?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsParliamentary Protective ServiceMichaelFergusonMichaelFerguson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Lapensée, thank you for being here today and for your comments.I was especially interested in your labour relations concerns. I know that officers who work on Parliament Hill have a collective agreement. I really thought that your employees would be protected by a collective agreement, even if the forces on Parliament Hill were unified. In your remarks, you said that the bill does not uphold the commitment guaranteeing the employment of all employees of the House of Commons Security Services. I am very concerned by that.Could you elaborate a bit further? Why won't your employment be guaranteed even though you have a collective agreement? Will this change your duties on Parliament Hill? Do you have an idea of what will happen to your jobs?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective agreementsGovernment billsHouse of Commons Security ServicesLabour forceParliamentary Protective ServiceMichaelFergusonRochLapensée//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]Does what has been proposed to us contain an obligation to abide by the collective agreement?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective agreementsGovernment billsHouse of Commons Security ServicesLabour forceParliamentary Protective ServiceRochLapenséeRochLapensée//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]And when will it expire?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective agreementsGovernment billsHouse of Commons Security ServicesLabour forceParliamentary Protective ServiceRochLapenséeRochLapensée//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]We are getting there slowly.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective agreementsGovernment billsHouse of Commons Security ServicesLabour forceParliamentary Protective ServiceRochLapenséeRochLapensée//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]You have a collective agreement, but RCMP officers do not have one, since they are not unionized.Do you think this situation could lead to a dichotomy of sorts? Will there be a double standard between the RCMP employees and you?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresChain of commandCollective agreementsGovernment billsHouse of Commons Security ServicesLabour forceParliamentary Protective ServiceRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceRochLapenséeRochLapensée//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]That's understandable. I did not even know that you and the Senate officers had two different collective agreements.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective agreementsGovernment billsHouse of Commons Security ServicesParliamentary Protective ServiceSenate Protective ServiceRochLapenséeRochLapensée//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]That complicates things a bit.Thank you.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective agreementsGovernment billsHouse of Commons Security ServicesParliamentary Protective ServiceSenate Protective ServiceRochLapenséeDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud (Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, NDP): (1040)[English] Could I have two minutes?DarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1040)[Translation]I want to thank my colleague Randall Garrison.I would also like to use this opportunity to thank you, Mr. Lapensée, and all your colleagues for what you did on October 22. I am at a loss for words to express my gratitude and tell you how professional the service was. Thank you very much for all that. We had an opportunity to say so in person to a number of you, but it's good to be able to reiterate it today.I also want to say that I share your concerns when it comes to maintaining parliamentary privilege. As a former political science student and graduate, I understand the concept well. I was also a parliamentary guide in 2007, and it's something I had to explain to people.I think some of my colleagues here could benefit from a little more explanation of what parliamentary privilege really is. It is the ability of the legislative power, Parliament, to pass legislation without interference from the executive power, the government. I think that a member—of the opposition or the government—not being able make it to a vote because they were held up for a few seconds or a few minutes on the Hill is a form of interference with their role as legislators. That is something we have seen—Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsParliamentary privilegeParliamentary Protective ServiceDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1040)[Translation]I would like to finish.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMembers' remarksParliamentary Protective ServicePoints of orderRoxanneJamesScarborough CentreRoxanneJamesScarborough Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1040)[Translation]I would like to finish my explanation.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMembers' remarksParliamentary Protective ServicePoints of orderRoxanneJamesScarborough CentreDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1040)[Translation]That's I was going to do. Unfortunately, Ms. James kind of jumped the gun and interrupted me.The Department of Justice representatives who were here last week confirmed that Bill C-59 will not change the way the Speakers of the House and the Senate must act—in other words, following an order from Parliament, a vote. We have seen similar problems arise in the House in the past. The government, with its majority, prevented the Speaker from acting, although it had itself realized that parliamentary privilege had been breeched. I fully understand your concerns and share them, but I would like to move on to something else if I may.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresChain of commandGovernment billsParliamentary Protective ServiceDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsRoxanneJamesScarborough Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1040)[Translation]It is a bit unfortunate that you are discrediting the witnesses who were here Tuesday and told us this. I invite my colleague to go over last week's blues.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsParliamentary Protective ServiceDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1040)[Translation]Thank you.During your presentation, Mr. Lapensée, you said that better operational coordination on Parliament Hill does not necessarily require an operational merger of the two services. Do you have any suggestions on how it could have been done without transferring the control of security to the RCMP?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresChain of commandGovernment billsParliamentary Protective ServiceRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsRochLapensée//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle (Rivière-du-Nord, NDP): (0935)[Translation] Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Macdonald, I have here your table showing the maximization of the TFSA. We see that the median family income in Canada is $74,000 or $76,000. I also see that 10% of average families have maximized their TFSAs whereas households earning more than $250,000 per year are three times more likely to have maximized their TFSAs.According to what I read in the parliamentary budget officer’s report, by 2060, high-income earners, those in the highest quintile, that is, will use TFSAs 10 times more than people with lower incomes. Those with the highest incomes will benefit from this program 10 times more than those with low incomes.You want a maximum amount to be set for the TFSA system so that the program does not produce millionaires. How did you establish the two levels of $150,000 and $300,000 that you proposed? Can you break all that down for us?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsIncome levelsTax Free Savings AccountJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducDavidMacdonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0940)[Translation]A number of people have expressed concern about the impact of TFSAs on provincial finances, and I am one of those people.According to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, in 2080—that seems a long way away, but time flies—the federal government will be deprived of an amount of $77 billion in revenue and the figure for the provinces will be $39 billion.In your view, what burden will that put on the provinces? What do you think about the fact that there were no discussions between the federal government and the provinces before this loss of income was forced onto them? For the provinces, this is something unexpected that they had not foreseen. One witness mentioned health care costs, which are going to continue to climb. That weight is going to be on the backs of the promises given that the health sector is in provincial jurisdiction. Is that reality a concern for your organization?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsHealth care systemTax Free Savings AccountDavidMacdonaldDavidMacdonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0940)[Translation]Mr. Zive, I have to put my name down in the “no” column in terms of your desire to promote private insurance for long-term care. I feel that it is a very bad idea. We have a universal health care system that is free and accessible to all here. Long-term care is part of the universal system in Canada. Rather than trying to promote private insurance, it seems better to me to devote our energies to strengthening our Canadian health care system. I do not subscribe to your comments at all.Thank you.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsHealth care systemLong-term careDavidMacdonaldJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté (Beauport—Limoilou, NDP): (0945)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.My thanks also to the witnesses for joining us today.Ms. Woolley, when you testified as part of the prebudget consultations, you were very critical of income splitting. You said this about it: Income splitting reduces the marginal tax rates of people who aren't very sensitive to tax changes—that's the primary breadwinner—and it increases the marginal tax rates of people who are sensitive to changes in tax rates, and that's secondary earners.As you said later in your testimony, most of the benefits go to higher-income families. As I understand it, that seems to suggest that one of the two spouses could quite easily exclude themselves from the workforce, which clearly would mostly involve women. So you were talking about the potential for inefficiency.Could you talk to us about the fact that hundreds or thousands of people could exclude themselves from the workforce?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresFamilies and childrenGovernment billsIncome splittingTax reliefJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducFrancesWoolley//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (0950)[Translation]Thank you, Ms. Woolley.Now I am going to turn to Ms. Pohlmann and Mr. Lavoie.Businesses need qualified staff and a decent pool of workers. Are Ms. Woolley's comments a concern for you? Are you monitoring how the availability of labour is evolving subsequent to these tax measures? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresFamilies and childrenGovernment billsIncome splittingSkilled workers and skilled tradesTax reliefFrancesWoolleyCorinnePohlmann//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (0950)[Translation]Fine.Mr. Macdonald, the last table particularly struck me, the one that shows the maximization rates since 2010. It is really interesting to see the very marked drop in TFSA maximization, even for those with very high incomes. We know that Canadians have a high rate of household debt. In fact, the ability of families to handle the cost of living has gone down considerably. Is there a link to be made there?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsTax Free Savings AccountMartinLavoieDavidMacdonald//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (0955)[Translation]So raising the ceiling is a very bad idea, especially since the maximization rate for incomes of $100,000 and more has been reduced by half.Thank you.DavidMacdonaldJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1100)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Ms. Decter, I appreciated your testimony a great deal.I am going to share my experience with you. I feel it may be helpful for everyone here who may have not lived in Quebec. I have been in two different situations with this issue. In the first, there was no daycare service and we had to find people to look after our child in a basement. We did not know whether we were going to get daycare at the right time. My wife was incredibly stressed because she did not know whether she was going to be able to work or not.With my daughter, the experience was the opposite. There was a daycare in the early childhood centre, the CPE, as we call it in Quebec. It had set hours and the people who took care of my daughter were college- or university-educated. The groups were set up in an intelligent way. The hours allowed my wife to work and then to come back to pick up our daughter in safe places that were designed for the purpose.It is pure ignorance to think that a daycare system like that is not superior to having to chase around in a way that undermines the confidence of parents looking for support. In your testimony, you mentioned some figures that showed the impact that the daycare system had on women in Quebec. For those listening to us, and even those not listening to us, I would like you to repeat those figures, because they illustrate the positive impact of that daycare system. Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsLabour forceProvince of QuebecSubsidized day careWomenJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducAnnDecter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1105)[Translation]I completely agree with you.I told you about my personal experience and about the quality of the services we received in that kind of network. My vision is completely opposed to what has been presented to us in this budget, that is, an amount of $160 for child care costs. Introducing a measure like that and telling parents that it could help them in their search for child care, is almost an insult to their intelligence. It is incredible that people can think in that way, given how amazing the experience in Quebec is. Everyone benefits, and the economy benefits too. The 80% increase in income for women is incredible for a dynamic consumer economy. Do you have any figures on the economic impact of women’s participation in the workforce?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsAnnDecterJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1110)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.My thanks also to the witnesses for joining us today.Mr. Cross, you heard me laughing just now when we were talking about the bill on balanced budgets. I gather that we somewhat see eye to eye on that. In my opinion, that bill demonstrates a lot of hypocrisy on the part of the government. However, that is not the subject I want to raise with you.I was sitting on the Standing Committee on Finance in 2013 when we passed Bill C-48, which expanded the Income Tax Act by 1,000 pages. Canada’s tax system is quite staggering in its complexity. This is nothing more than fiscal clientelism, the effect of which is a huge fragmentation of the real clients. Tax breaks for families is one example of that. Unfortunately, they make things more complicated.One phenomenon that I find disturbing is that fewer and fewer individuals are doing their tax returns themselves. I do not know which organizations measure that, but the fact remains that only a third, a little less than 40%, of individuals prepare their tax returns themselves. The rest go to professionals or to family members to do those returns. Could you talk to us about that complexity and what families lose as a result? Canadian households actually often have to pay for their taxes to be done.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsIncome tax returnsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducPhilipCross//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1115)[Translation]Do you know if any studies have been done on the losses that individuals or companies have suffered because of the complexity of our tax system?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPhilipCrossPhilipCross//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1115)[Translation]Okay.PhilipCrossPhilipCross//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1115)[Translation]Thank you.Mr. Wudrick, I gather that you are very critical about the complexity of the tax system. The complexity means that individuals are unable to find their way around it by themselves.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsIncome tax returnsPhilipCrossAaronWudrick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1115)[Translation]Talking about balanced budgets, Mr. Wudrick, you were very critical of the use of the surplus in the employment insurance fund. There is also the fact that, because part of the contingency fund was used to achieve that balance, Canada has been deprived of resources set aside to support the provinces and the municipalities in times of disaster. I would like to hear your comments about the detrimental aspects of the methods used to achieve a balanced budget.Balanced budgetBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsLegislationAaronWudrickAaronWudrick//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1125)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Mr. Laurin, in your written presentation, we read that, if the objective of this tax relief for families is to provide support to families with children, this will give still more benefits to those who likely need them least.Is that still your position?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresFamilies and childrenGovernment billsIncome splittingTax reliefJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducAlexandreLaurin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1125)[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Heath, my neighbour is an accountant and a tax expert. Clearly, he did a huge number of tax returns this spring. We get on well. We have known each other for four years. He was telling me about warning his daughter about the changes to the universal child care benefit or the replacement of the Canada child tax benefit. He told her not to spend the whole cheque that she will be receiving in July because she is going to have to get used to the idea of sending a cheque to the federal government in the spring of 2016.Do you want to comment on the Greeks bearing gifts, or should we say the government bearing its new formula?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresChild care allowanceChild tax benefitFamilies and childrenGovernment billsTax reliefAlexandreLaurinJasonHeath//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1130)[Translation]Thank you very much.Ms. Decter, thank you for your presentation.There have been reports all over Canada about the difficulties that families are having in finding private daycare where no public daycare is offered. I remember a story on Radio-Canada about the situation in Newfoundland and Labrador that was quite disheartening. Clearly the universal child care benefit is a long way from making up for the costs that can result. I was astounded by the astronomical costs and the major disparities there can be from one end of the country to the other. If I recall the report correctly, Newfoundland and Labrador has the misfortune of being the province with the second highest daycare costs. Can you testify as to the huge burden placed on families who have no other option but to have their children looked after in a private daycare when there is no public daycare program that can provide affordable places for them?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCare for childrenCostsGovernment billsJasonHeathAnnDecter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe (Pierrefonds—Dollard, NDP): (0920)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'd like to thank the witnesses for joining us today. Of course, I'll be asking my questions in French.First, I'd like to know whether applicants will have to cover the costs of the biometric screening measures.Could you fill us in on that?BiometricsC-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresFeesGovernment billsPassports and visasDavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonChrisGregory//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0920)[Translation]Thank you.Aside from the costs that applicants will have to incur, are there any other downsides to the implementation of biometric screening?BiometricsC-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPassports and visasChrisGregoryChrisGregory//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0925)[Translation]Thank you.You've already talked about it, but I'd like to know more about the downsides. You don't think there are any. But I think you're wrong, and that worries me. I want to share with you a story that I experienced first-hand. The people who put systems like these in place need to know about the actual costs and disadvantages that applicants and future visitors to Canada may have to deal with.My in-laws applied for a visa. They don't live in a city with a visa application centre, so they had to drive an hour to the closest airport. Then they had to fly to the closest city where their biometric information could be collected. They didn't really know the city. These are people in their sixties with very little travel experience who had never flown by themselves before. Once in the unfamiliar city, they had to take a taxi to the visa office. And had someone in the office not taken a number for them, they would have likely spent the entire day there without being served and had to go back the next day.These are people in their sixties who aren't used to travelling or having their biometric information collected. And once their information was collected just so they could submit their application—which wasn't necessarily approved—they turned around and went back to the airport, flew to the city they departed from and then drove an hour home.The $85 is just the start. People will have to incur the cost of travel, taxis and, in some cases, hotel accommodations. The array of costs associated with the application can be extensive, not to mention the lost time. If my in-laws had had jobs, they would have had to miss a day of work, or two or three days. On top of that, the whole experience was quite stressful for seniors who had to fly by themselves to a strange city without even knowing if they would be served that day. And these are healthy people who don't work or have children to take care of. I saw what they they had to go through, and it isn't out of the ordinary.I'm not saying I'm against biometric screening, whose virtues you extolled. But it's important to know the implications they can have for the families who have to follow the process. Keep in mind that the process I described involved people who had not been approved yet. They had to go through all of that merely to apply, and then go back home and wait for an answer. In the end, their application was approved. So they had to drive to another city for the medical examinations and so forth.It's important to understand that the measure has downsides, as well. Yes, protecting Canadians is essential. And, of course, we need to take action in response to security concerns. But is this really the best way to do that? And has the process proven effective so far? The question bears asking, and you need to be aware of the reality. Can you tell me where in the world individuals who are required to provide their biometric information have to travel great distances in order to get to the closest visa office? Have any countries expressed dissatisfaction about the fact that their citizens are being subjected to these kinds of measures? Have any countries indicated that they planned to impose the same requirements on Canadian tourists visiting their country? That kind of thing has happened in the case of other measures. I'd like to know—BiometricsC-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresFeesGovernment billsPassports and visasChrisGregoryDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0940)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be quick. I think I demonstrated that it's not true that biometric screening will definitely facilitate travel for genuine travellers, since it's already making things much more complicated for legitimate travellers. First of all, I'd like to know this. Are you aware of parts of the world where citizens are required to submit to biometric screening when coming to Canada but do not have nearby visa application centres?BiometricsC-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPassports and visasRemote communitiesDavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonChrisGregory//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0940)[English]Which countries, please?C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPassports and visasChrisGregoryChrisGregory//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0940)[English]Are there other countries than those two that you have just named?C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPassports and visasChrisGregoryChrisGregory//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0940)[English]Can you name them?C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPassports and visasChrisGregoryChrisGregory//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0940)[Translation]Sorry for interrupting. But I realize that there are countries where the safety of our officers can't be guaranteed. By the same token, you need to understand that it's not any safer for citizens of those countries to travel in order to provide their biometric information. That's another consideration we need to look at. If it isn't safe for our people, it isn't safe for the people who live in those countries to cross borders in order to provide biometric information just to apply for a visa. Have you looked at other options for collecting people's biometric information? For instance, would it be possible to request biometrics only from those whose applications had been approved as opposed to all applicants? If, after initial processing, the person's application seemed acceptable, at that point, we could require the person to travel in order to provide their biometric information. That would save applicants from having to travel and incur costs if their application was incomplete or rejected for reasons not related to security or identity. Would that be feasible? Have you considered that?BiometricsC-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPassports and visasRemote communitiesChrisGregoryChrisGregory//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0940)[Translation]I'm talking about people whose application is approved. We don't need biometric information from people whose application is denied for health reasons or out of fear that they won't return to their home country. A number of criteria can be used to prevent a person from entering Canada as a visitor. I don't mean picking and choosing those we request biometric data from. All I am saying is that we should look at another option that you haven't considered—and I'm not pointing the finger at you—in other words, requiring biometric information only in cases where, after initial processing, the individual's application seems to meet the requirements for a visitor visa. I'm not asking what you think of the idea. You said you weren't looking at that option and had chosen another approach. I am simply saying that it may be possible to ensure public safety and border security without necessarily imposing the biometric requirement on individuals who won't be granted permission to enter Canada as visitors regardless. I have another question related to privacy.BiometricsC-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPassports and visasRemote communitiesChrisGregoryDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0955)[English]I just want to clarify that we won't have any votes. It's just because the House of Commons is sitting now—DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (1005)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you, Mr. Kurland, for joining us today.(1010)[English]First of all, thank you for your proposed amendment, but as you probably know, we cannot accept any amendments here in this committee about Bill C-59. We cannot make any substantive changes because the Conservatives refuse to split their omnibus legislation. All we can do is refer our comments to the finance committee. They will then study the amendment, if we suggest an amendment, even though they will never hear your testimony and the explanation behind that amendment. Of course, it is not the way to do things according to the opposition, but what can we do?But, anyhow, thank you very much for being here and sharing those comments with us.[Translation]That said, I'd like to talk briefly about privacy protection. You spoke about that. And you aren't the only one to voice concerns over privacy. The Privacy Commissioner had questions as well. And, according to him, those questions haven't been answered. It's important to discuss those issues clearly and publicly so people know what to expect. Logically, we should know exactly how people's personal information is going to be handled before approving a measure like this. What will happen to it? When and how will it be destroyed? I'd like to quote Leslie Stalker, a lawyer and expert on the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. Ms. Stalker had this to say:[English]The big issue is privacy...we don't know how widely the data collected by the government will be shared....[Translation]She also said this:[English]For example, it appears that under bilateral agreements, biometric data may be shared with other countries.[Translation]Many other experts have raised questions and concerns, including the Canadian Bar Association, Amnesty International and the Canadian Civil Liberties Association. I mention them just so you know you aren't alone. Other experts around the country share your concerns. I would think that a responsible government would pay attention to those concerns and provide answers before going ahead with such a measure. But the government actually expects us to give it carte blanche despite the potential for the misuse of data. Even though you can't propose your amendment to the committee, given that the Conservatives have chosen to proceed in a way that makes doing so impossible, I would still like you to read it for us. Since you were a bit rushed earlier, I'd like to give you the opportunity to round out the end of your presentation, which you only had time to summarize.C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresData sharingForeign countriesGovernment billsPassports and visasPrivacy of personal recordsDavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonRichardKurland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (1010)[English]Thank you.(1015)[Translation]I believe my colleague had some questions for you as well, so I will turn the floor over to her.RichardKurlandIreneMathyssenLondon—Fanshawe//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine (Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, NDP): (1900)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd also like to thank the witnesses for joining us this evening and answering our questions. Ms. Migneault, we understand that you are a bit disappointed with the amount of the caregiver relief benefit. A question came to mind. Would you have preferred to have the benefit included in the veterans independence program, which you do not qualify for either? It's meant for activities such as housekeeping and yard maintenance, in order to give caregivers a break. If the benefit had been included in the veterans independence program, would it have been helpful to you, given that you also have fairly young children at home? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCaregivers and health care professionalsGovernment billsSpousesVeterans Independence ProgramRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansJeniferMigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1900)[Translation]Thank you. My next question is for Mr. Thibeau. Mr. Burke talked briefly about the retirement income security benefit. His preference would have been to have the earnings loss benefit set at 100%. Would you be in favour of an amendment to establish the benefit at 100% as opposed to 70% and to continue providing the same amount to veterans after the age of 65? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresEarnings Loss BenefitGovernment billsRetirement Income Security BenefitJeniferMigneaultRobertThibeau//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1900)[Translation]Mr. Burke, you also answered this question in your opening statement. You would have preferred to see—Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRobertThibeauJosephBurke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1905)[Translation] Ms. Migneault, I'm going to come back to you. I'll give you a chance to take a breath first. Am I out of time? JosephBurkeRoyalGalipeauOttawa—Orléans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1905)[Translation]Fine. What would you have liked to see in the bill, in terms of giving you some relief?Adult education and trainingBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCaregivers and health care professionalsGovernment billsSpousesRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansJeniferMigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): (1915)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My questions are for Ms. Migneault. I'd just like to know her take on my logic.In a case like your husband's, which I've seen before, it's clear to me that anyone who comes to your home to replace you has to be a qualified professional; that person has to know how to deal with individuals living with problems like your husband's.In terms of building trust, it seems obvious to me that the person should meet with you, both you and your husband, repeatedly, several times a week. It would start gradually, with 15-minute increments, increasing to 20 minutes, 30 minutes and so forth. It would take many hours of working together before you would be able to leave the house for a few hours, or perhaps even an entire day, to visit family. When you divide $7,238 by the hourly wage of a private nurse, it doesn't take long before you run out of hours. Do you think that's a problem and that it can't be adapted in some situations? I did a quick calculation, and if you need someone 24 hours a day, the amount is equivalent to 6 days of private nursing care a year.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresFamily Caregiver Relief BenefitGovernment billsRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansJeniferMigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[Translation]Mr. Thibeau, I'd like to know what veterans' accommodations are like. How do they manage to find housing?JeniferMigneaultRoyalGalipeauOttawa—Orléans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[English]Do you have any problem with housing?RobertThibeauFrankValerioteGuelph//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1920)[Translation]Do veterans have problems with housing?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsHomelessness and homelessVeteransFrankValerioteGuelphChristineMooreAbitibi—Témiscamingue//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[Translation]Do veterans have problems with housing?SylvainChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantRoyalGalipeauOttawa—Orléans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[English]Thank you.RobertThibeauRoyalGalipeauOttawa—Orléans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère (Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, NDP): (1545)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My thanks to the witnesses for appearing.My first question is very short.We have noted that you have fairly substantial resources in terms of the budget. In terms of human resources, do you have enough quality computer scientists to handle all the management duties? Or do you have to use subcontractors, who assess the work of other subcontractors?BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreCarolineWeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1545)[Translation]Very well.We have also received other information, if you will, that your officers in charge of receiving people do not always have an interface that enables them to intercept criminals coming into Canada, even if they have previously committed offences in Canada. That is apparently directly related to a problem with implementing a computer and information-sharing system.First, is that a major issue?Second, if there is a problem, will it be resolved very quickly?BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaLouis-PaulNormandCarolineWeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1550)[Translation]We are happy to learn that the problem will be taken care of very quickly, but there is also the capitalization issue. We see in your five-year plan that you have considerable funding, which is not being fully utilized.Does that lead to an increased backlog in some of your programs that are already behind? Given that you have the money you need, it is difficult to understand why you are not using it to address the observed shortcomings and backlogs.BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation collectionInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaCarolineWeberCarolineWeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1550)[Translation]As for my last question, you have already set the stage by talking about interdependence.In Canada, we are governed by rights that protect personal information. In those conditions, how will you manage your entire network and the interdependence situation so that the law would always be enforced properly?BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation collectionInformation technologyInvestmentPrivacy of personal recordsReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaLouis-PaulNormandLouis-PaulNormand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones (Labrador, Lib.): (1605)[English]Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for being here today to answer questions on chapter 5 of the report.I'm going to go back to paragraph 5.37 for a moment. I don't feel that we had clarity with regard to the questions that were asked by my colleague Mr. Allen. It's quite evident on page 12 of the report that with regard to the project delay, it was the result of a difference of opinion between the Canada Border Services Agency and Citizenship and Immigration Canada with regard to critical function. It did result in a three-month delay and an additional cost of $2.3 million because the agency had to extend a vendor contract.I would like to know what the critical function was, and why did it take three months and $2.3 million to resolve this within the department. What was the difference of opinion that wasn't seen until it got to this stage?BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreCarolineWeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones: (1610)[English]It's stated here that you had known about the aging system since 2008. You knew it had to be changed. In September when you launched the project, why did you not project that there was going to be a problem then? Why was this cost not incorporated at that time?BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaLouis-PaulNormandLouis-PaulNormand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones: (1610)[English]Paragraph 5.22 states, “The Treasury Board Policy on Investment Planning—Assets and Acquired Services requires that the Agency update the Investment Plan every three years, or when a significant change occurs.” Since 2011, the Canada Border Services Agency has had significant change occur, yet its investment plan has not been updated. Why is the Canada Border Services Agency not following the Treasury Board requirements, especially when over $1 billion has been invested into the agency itself?BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaLouis-PaulNormandCarolineWeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones: (1610)[English]Well it was obviously a violation of Treasury Board policy. Auditor General, I'd like to ask whether you know of other departments in other audits you've been doing where this Treasury Board requirement has not been met. I know it's outlined clearly here. I'm not sure if it has been in other reports.BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaChrisBucarMichaelFerguson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1620)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Normand, you said earlier that some programs might be co-managed and others were managed exclusively by you. Everything is overseen by a committee. Will the committee be able to ensure that the architecture of the entire IT network is interactive? Will we end up with a silo monster? Or will we have something with enough computer gateways to be able to support a secure network?BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreLouis-PaulNormand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1620)[Translation]Of course, unfortunate situations have to be taken into account. A lady complained about being assaulted by someone who never should have entered Canada. We heard about a woman with mental health problems who was refused access to an airplane because her medical records had been transferred to foreign authorities without her permission. You will tell me things like that happen only occasionally, but these are the types of incidents that must be avoided.Will the system you are currently developing manage to do that? I know that haste makes waste, but we still have to get results within a reasonable timeframe. Are you headed toward that?This question is for you and for the Auditor General. Are we headed toward a system that will be truly satisfactory?BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaLouis-PaulNormandLouis-PaulNormand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones: (1630)[English]I want to continue with paragraph 5.22, on which I have one quick question left. Clearly Canada Border Services Agency did not file the appropriate requirements for Treasury Board at the time. I'm wondering if there were any penalties applied because of that. How did Treasury Board deal with the situation that you had failed to update your investment plan as per their particular requirements?BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreLouis-PaulNormand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones: (1630)[English]None of you were around at that time. Is that what you're telling me?CarolineWeberCarolineWeber//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones: (1630)[English]Okay. I'm just wondering, because obviously Treasury Board guidelines are there for a reason. Those policies are set for a reason. When an agency does not abide by them, as is being reported right now through the Auditor General's report, I'm wondering how those situations are dealt with. I'm surprised that you wouldn't know at this stage.I'll move now to paragraph 5.20. A question was raised earlier about five of the projects the report examined that went through the Canada Border Services Agency project management framework and that moved on to their next phases without meeting some of the necessary prerequisites that were outlined. Could you outline to me what the five projects were, just so that we have it on the record, and why it was not necessary to meet the established prerequisites? What were the prerequisites, to start with, and how close were the five projects to meeting them? Were there any consequences for not meeting those prerequisites? Perhaps you could explain that to me, because I don't think we've had a clear understanding of that at this stage.BordersCanada Border Services AgencyInformation technologyInvestmentReport 5, Information Technology Investments - Canada Border Services Agency, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaLouis-PaulNormandLouis-PaulNormand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine (Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, NDP): (1850)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would also like to thank the witnesses for being here today.Mr. Mac Culloch, your French is very good. It's perfect.RoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansRoyalGalipeauOttawa—Orléans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1850)[Translation]Absolutely. I had the opportunity to speak a few words with him, but I wasn't entirely sure. Now we have proof.RoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansRoyalGalipeauOttawa—Orléans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1855)[Translation]For the second or third time, thank you, Mr. Chair. All things come in threes.I would like to thank our witnesses for being here today. You are the second group that we are receiving as part of the study on Bill C-59, or at least the part relating to veterans.You all seem to be unanimous and all seem to support the provisions included in Bill C-59, which was previously Bill C-58. This morning we heard from the ombudsman and another group of veterans who described this as a half measure or a step in the right direction.In a short sentence or in one word, I would like you to give us your understanding, perhaps more directly, of the provisions we are currently studying in the context of Bill C-58 or Bill C-59. Are you encouraged or disappointed when you read these provisions? Obviously, this is the first bill that follows on the report tabled almost a year ago now. How do the members you represent feel about this? Are they encouraged, shocked or disappointed? I will leave it up to each of you to perhaps describe this in a short sentence.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansBradley K.White//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1900)[Translation]Mr. Mac Culloch, what is your opinion about this?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsBradley K.WhiteWayneMac Culloch//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1900)[Translation]Mrs. Lowther, what do you think?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsWayneMac CullochDebbieLowther//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1900)[Translation]Thank you.It's encouraging, of course, but I find it somewhat disappointing in several respects.Let's start with the retirement income security benefit.What is included in the bill is not at all what the committee recommended. In the case of SISIP, the committee recommended at least 90% of the bonus for injured individuals. So it was more than 75%. The bill also indicates that this new retirement income security allocation is 70% of the proportion of 75%. So it's very little.I'm wondering if you're satisfied with this provision. Would you support an amendment that would be proposed asking that this new income allocation be equal to what veterans would receive before age 65?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRetirement Income Security BenefitDebbieLowtherRoyalGalipeauOttawa—Orléans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): (1915)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My first question is very simple, and it is this.Is there an annual indexing formula geared to the cost of living for the various benefit amounts?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansWayneMac Culloch//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[Translation]Okay, but are the amounts indexed every year?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsWayneMac CullochWayneMac Culloch//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[Translation]I'm talking about all the benefits, including the retirement income security benefit and all the other benefits. Are they indexed every year to the cost of living?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsWayneMac CullochWayneMac Culloch//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[Translation]Okay. Thank you.My second question has to do with spousal allowances.When we do the calculation of the 50% of the 70% and the 75%, a wife ends up with a benefit of about 26% of her husband's gross revenue when he leaves the forces.Let's be honest. A number of veterans are men, and they have wives. So these are women who can have access to these benefits. It often happens that women are unable to work and haven't worked throughout their husband's career. They simply supported their husbands as best they could in the course of his duties.When these women were younger, they have nothing but this amount, since they aren't entitled to old age security because of their age. Do you think that's reasonable, especially considering the sacrifice that a lot of wives make because of the family situation created by a military career?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsSpousesWayneMac CullochWayneMac Culloch//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[Translation]So—WayneMac CullochBradley K.White//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[Translation]Do you think it would be appropriate to look further into the situation of spouses of veterans to ensure that the income provided to them is feasible?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsIncome levelsSpousesBradley K.WhiteWayneMac Culloch//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[Translation]Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?WayneMac CullochRoyalGalipeauOttawa—Orléans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[Translation]Okay.In terms of benefits for family caregivers, I would like your comments on the amount that has been allocated. Is it enough and will it really make it possible to do what was set out?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansBradley K.White//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1920)[Translation]Do you think the amount for family caregivers is sufficient?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresFamily Caregiver Relief BenefitGovernment billsBradley K.WhiteBradley K.White//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (2010)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.My first question is for Mr. Mckenna.In the case of long-term disability insurance and the earnings loss benefit, the outcome of this percentage can't be lower than $42,426.Couldn't we implement something similar in the case of spousal benefits, meaning a minimum amount that cannot drop below a certain amount? Do you think that amendment might be relevant?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresEarnings Loss BenefitGovernment billsSpousesRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansBrianMcKenna//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (2010)[Translation]My second question is for Mr. Gray.You spoke about reduced incomes after age 65 based on the percentage. I believe it was decided that the amount would be reduced, based on the fact that veterans would also have access to an old age pension.In your opinion, should the reduced incomes be limited to the amount of the old age pension, meaning that if what the person loses is higher than the amount of the old age pension, the reduction of the retirement benefit would not be higher than the amount of the old age pension that he or she is currently receiving?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsIncome levelsVeterans benefitsBrianMcKennaPerryGray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (2010)[Translation]So the lack of indexing is also a problem.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsPerryGrayPerryGray//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (2010)[English]Thank you.PerryGrayRoyalGalipeauOttawa—Orléans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (2010)[Translation]That's fine. I will now take the time to correct what I said earlier.In fact, Mr. Forbes is the one who mentioned this afternoon that these were half measures. The previous group seemed to be quite encouraged by the legislative measures. You seem a little more critical than the previous group. I somewhat agree with what Mr. Gray said.The department introduced a bill that will help the most seriously injured people and people without income after age 65. However, it will benefit a very small number of veterans. I think Mr. Gray mentioned that this measure will benefit only a very limited number of veterans.Mr. Bruyea, Mr. Blais, Mr. Mckenna, do you share that point of view, as well?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansRoyalGalipeauOttawa—Orléans//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis (Saint-Maurice—Champlain, Lib.): (1530)[Translation]Yes. Is Mr. Nicholls simply absent or has he resigned? I heard—MichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58697LiseSt-DenisLise-St-DenisSaint-Maurice—ChamplainLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/St-DenisLise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lise St-Denis: (1530)[English]Okay, I didn't know.MichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton HillsMichaelChongHon.Wellington—Halton Hills//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): (1700)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I just want to check whether Ms. Currie can hear me clearly in English.Mental healthBenLobbHuron—BruceJanetCurrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1705)[Translation]Are you hearing me clearly in English?BenLobbHuron—BruceJanetCurrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1705)[Translation]Okay.My questions go to Ms. Currie.I talk with a lot of parents. They are concerned about the whole issue of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. We routinely see children taking medication at a young age. Sometimes, they start in daycare. A lot of parents are worried since it is a new phenomenon. When I was in school, practically no children were taking medication to go to class. They were just considered children who were more naturally inclined to move around. It seems that very few alternatives to medication are being provided in these cases. In your view, are there any alternatives? Is research being done to find some?I recently read about stationary bikes being installed under desks so that children can move while they are in class. Are you familiar with that initiative to reduce the use of medication, especially for children? Attention Deficit Hyperactivity DisorderChildrenMental healthPharmaceuticalsJanetCurrieJanetCurrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1705)[Translation]Yes.JanetCurrieJanetCurrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1705)[English]Yes.JanetCurrieJanetCurrie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71533Marie-ClaudeMorinMarie-Claude-MorinSaint-Hyacinthe—BagotNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarieClaude_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Marie-Claude Morin (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, NDP): (1550)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.My question is for all the witnesses who are with us. I would like to thank them for their testimony. It's always very interesting and allows us to learn a little more.In a financial context where social impact bonds are a kind of contact between a business and an organization, aren't you concerned that some organizations with fewer human and legal resources might be in some way subject to large companies and lose their independence? I'm curious to know whether there is a danger in that regard.Associations, institutions and organizationsCanadian Association of Social WorkersSocial financeSocial impact bondsPhilMcColemanBrantSallyGuy//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71533Marie-ClaudeMorinMarie-Claude-MorinSaint-Hyacinthe—BagotNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarieClaude_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Marie-Claude Morin: (1550)[Translation]Thank you.SallyGuyLarsBoggild//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71533Marie-ClaudeMorinMarie-Claude-MorinSaint-Hyacinthe—BagotNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarieClaude_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Marie-Claude Morin: (1555)[Translation]Thank you.There's one minute left. Do you have anything to add, Dr. Mulvale?JustinBertagnolliJamesMulvale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71533Marie-ClaudeMorinMarie-Claude-MorinSaint-Hyacinthe—BagotNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarieClaude_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Marie-Claude Morin: (1555)[Translation]Thank you.JamesMulvalePhilMcColemanBrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi (Saint-Jean, NDP): (1615)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My question is for Dr. Mulvale.Two weeks ago, the committee heard from David Juppe, who is a senior operating budget manager. He expressed some concerns about social impact bonds, in particular. I would like to know your opinion on those bonds.His argument was basically that these bonds will increase the costs that the government will have to assume because they add an intermediary between the government and the service provider. He argued that once the interest rate for these bonds is set, there is no limit to the amount that these interest rates can generate. In a capital market, the interest rate is tied to the risk of the activity. That's the case for any kind of bond. Mr. Juppe said that it's a type of loan where the government pays the interest if the program works.Doesn't the fact that there is also an intermediary with social impact bonds mean that there's a risk that the government would spend more than if it paid the service provider directly? What are your thoughts?Cost-benefit analysisRisk managementSocial financeSocial impact bondsPhilMcColemanBrantJamesMulvale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1620)[Translation]He also argued that the savings we are speaking about in the case of these bonds are for the most part overestimated. In his opinion, what will be considered is that the number of cases processed by the service providers will decrease. But that won't necessarily be the case.Social financeJamesMulvaleJamesMulvale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1240)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Five years after the long form census was abolished, the worst fears expressed by the scientific community have been confirmed. The government's decision to scrap the long form census not only deprives researchers of reliable data, but also deprives governments of essential references for public policy development, especially in terms of minorities.Could you at least recognize that the replacement for the mandatory long form census is less accurate and more costly?CensusesDepartment of IndustryLong-form census questionnaireMain estimates 2015-2016DavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleJamesMooreHon.Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1240)[Translation]I knew you were going to talk about Mr. Smith's point of view.In reality, your answer would leave the most humble researchers stunned. It is not the quantity that matters, but rather the need to ensure that all categories of the population will be represented. In a survey, we want to be able to see trends such as when a barely visible minority finally expands. That is the most valuable part.With the way things are right now, we cannot detect a pattern emerging regarding a barely visible minority that is becoming increasingly significant. That is what we want to examine to be able to make predictions.CensusesDepartment of IndustryMain estimates 2015-2016JamesMooreHon.Port Moody—Westwood—Port CoquitlamJamesMooreHon.Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1245)[Translation]However, the sample is not probabilistic. How can you explain that?JamesMooreHon.Port Moody—Westwood—Port CoquitlamJamesMooreHon.Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1245)[Translation]The sample is no longer probabilistic. This creates all kinds of biases, which is a problem.Let me give you a concrete example. In the area of housing, an organization has found some surprising data on Quebec City. The results suggest that the condition of housing in Quebec City improved between 2006 and 2011. However, landlords and tenant groups agree that the situation has deteriorated according to the Front d'action populaire en réaménagement urbain (FRAPRU) in Quebec City. Immigrant households appear to have better housing conditions, while the opposite is true. We had never seen this kind of distortion in the past. In terms of the National Household Survey, the non-response rate was 32% compared to 6% for the census conducted in 2006 with the long form.Do you understand the gravity of the situation?Department of IndustryMain estimates 2015-2016StatisticsJamesMooreHon.Port Moody—Westwood—Port CoquitlamJamesMooreHon.Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary (St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NDP): (1115)[English]I understand that Mr. Cusson's presentation is not in both languages. I'm sorry to hear that, but I understand that there is an English version. Can we get a copy of at least the English version?Documents in both official languagesHunting and sport fishingRodneyWestonSaint JohnRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1125)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.My riding is St. John's South—Mount Pearl in Newfoundland and Labrador. I've seen a lot of changes in the salmon fishery, both the recreational fishery and the commercial fishery, in my 25 years as a journalist and as a member of Parliament. Back in 1991 when they introduced a moratorium on commercial fishing of Atlantic salmon, we thought that would be the start of a return of the salmon stock. That did not happen. The most recent news in Newfoundland and Labrador is a story, just this week, about a catch-and-release policy being implemented for Newfoundland and Labrador rivers similar to what's going on in places like New Brunswick, which is unheard of in Newfoundland and Labrador. We've never had that before. We understand, as you just outlined, that the salmon are not coming back from the sea. I'm sure as you just outlined there's an impact on the fishing in the Saint-Pierre corridor off southern Newfoundland. There's an impact, as you outlined, with 58 tonnes being caught in Greenland plus probably another 10 tonnes poached. Then on top of that you have the Greenland and the aboriginal harvest as well.We are federal members of Parliament, Mr. Cusson, as you know. One of my big concerns here is whether or not...and you outlined a number of concerns from a federal perspective in terms of Canadian rivers not being monitored. Fewer than 10% of rivers are being monitored. DFO's budget has been cut in half, I thought you said. You also mentioned that we need more enforcement. You talked about an independent review or an action plan funded.My specific question has to do with the role of the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans in doing all it can do to ensure that our Atlantic salmon stocks are where they should be. Can you elaborate on that? I know that a few years ago there was the Cohen Commission of Inquiry into the Decline of Sockeye Salmon in the Fraser River. We've had a disappearance of Atlantic salmon in east coast rivers for decades. Some problems are known, as you've outlined, but nothing's being done to address them. My specific question has to do with the federal government and what it can be doing more of to make sure our Atlantic salmon stocks are where they need to be.Atlantic fisheriesAtlantic salmonFisheries stocksHunting and sport fishingRodneyWestonSaint JohnCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1130)[English] I'm going to stop you, Mr. Cusson.Again, just to reiterate the point that the chair made. I've only got a few minutes so I need you to cut to the chase.What more can the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans do to ensure that our Atlantic salmon stocks are where they should be?Atlantic salmonFisheries stocksHunting and sport fishingCharlesCussonCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1130)[English]Now, can you elaborate on that?Hunting and sport fishingCharlesCussonCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1130)[English]Can you put a dollar value on it, sir?Hunting and sport fishingCharlesCussonCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1130)[English]When you talk about an independent review or an action plan, are you talking about an independent review of the role the DFO plays with regard to Atlantic salmon?Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingCharlesCussonCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1130)[English]You mentioned the cost of putting a tag on one salmon as $2,500, but in terms of a more global figure for the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans, what kind of figure would it take for DFO to do what it should to conserve salmon stocks?Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingCharlesCussonCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1130)[English]How much were they compared to now?Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingCharlesCussonCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1130)[English]So doubling DFO's budget of $12 million to $24 million.Hunting and sport fishingCharlesCussonCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1130)[English]Conservation is obviously critical in Newfoundland and Labrador, in the Maritimes, and in Quebec in terms of Atlantic salmon. I feel that we're doing our part in terms of retention, in terms of the tagging system and the whole nine yards. But that's hard to swallow when you have a Saint Pierre corridor where Atlantic salmon is being harvested, and Greenland, for example, where probably around 70 tonnes is being taken.I know that you outlined what Canada should do in terms of coming down on Greenland and asking France to become a member of NASCO, but how much harder of a stance should the DFO and the Government of Canada take on this? It seems like we're at a critical point.Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingCharlesCussonCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58528RyanClearyRyan-ClearySt. John's South—Mount PearlNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ClearyRyan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Ryan Cleary: (1135)[English] Thank you, sir.CharlesCussonRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe (Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, NDP): (1135)[Translation]Mr. Cusson, what you said about Saint-Pierre and Miquelon was interesting. As you see it, how does the fact that France is not a member of the North Atlantic Salmon Conservation Organization prevent us from working with that country? Is Canadian diplomacy doing as much as it should to bring France into NASCO?Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingNorth Atlantic Salmon Conservation OrganizationSaint-Pierre et MiquelonRodneyWestonSaint JohnCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1135)[Translation]If I understand the reasoning correctly, we must do better in being able to say to our partners: here is what we are doing and please do as well as we are. Setting aside what we are doing, a stronger diplomatic effort to bring Saint-Pierre and Miquelon into NASCO would still be an improvement. But you are saying that the diplomatic effort is not sufficient to attain that objective. Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingNorth Atlantic Salmon Conservation OrganizationSaint-Pierre et MiquelonCharlesCussonCharlesCusson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1135)[Translation]That is quite serious, I must say.CharlesCussonRodneyWestonSaint John//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1225)[Translation]Good afternoon, gentlemen.RodneyWestonSaint JohnFrançoisLapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1225)[Translation] Everyone is concerned to see that the Atlantic salmon really is below the conservation threshold in most of the rivers in eastern Canada. Last March, Mr. LeBlanc made statements in an interview with the newspaper Acadie Nouvelle. He talked about conservation levels that are well below what we are hoping for. Losing that resource would have a major economic impact. Just now, Mr. LeBlanc talked about an impact of more than $20 million for fishing camps alone. I heard a comment earlier that personally upset me greatly. Charles Cusson said that Canada’s wild Atlantic salmon conservation policy has never had appropriate funding and has not been enforced. Mr. Bird rightly said that he wanted a Canadian action plan to be established. As our chair said, we do not have a lot of time to go over this issue. So I am going to share with you the most significant problems that have consistently been raised in the preceding testimony. I would like to know how you would establish a priority for these difficulties, in order to come up with a Canadian action plan that will perhaps allow us to save the Atlantic salmon.We are constantly being told that, in order to have the data we need to be able to work on each of the salmon rivers, we must more than double the research efforts of Fisheries and Oceans Canada.What are your impressions on that?Then, there is a lack of any real control on invasive species. We know about ballast water in the gulf, but there are also recreational American boats that go through customs without being checked. We have been told a number of times that this can bring in invasive species.Does that difficulty exist in the east, in New Brunswick?Today, Mr. Cusson brought up another important point, namely the lack of effort on the part of Canadian diplomacy to make it possible for France, because of Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, to become a member of the North Atlantic Salmon Conservation Organization.Those are all major problems. In the Canadian action plan that we say we want, do all those problems have to be solved? Alternatively, which, in your view, should be solved as a priority and using which resources?Perhaps we could start with Mr. LeBlanc and then move to Mr. Bird.Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingFrançoisLapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupDavidLeBlanc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1230)[Translation]Mr. LeBlanc, you are saying that, even before getting to the matter of the lack of research funding, we have to understand that the current level of protection is inadequate. That is what I understand from your comments. Is that correct?Atlantic salmonBudget cutsHunting and sport fishingDavidLeBlancDavidLeBlanc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1230)[Translation]Thank you.DavidLeBlancDavidLeBlanc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1230)[Translation]Thank you.Mr. Bird, you mentioned the call for an action plan. What would be the first urgent steps that the federal government should take?Atlantic salmonBudget cutsHunting and sport fishingDavidLeBlancJ.Bird//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1230)[Translation]Mr. Bird, I understand that you use the word “mystery” to describe the problem of the loss of salmon stocks in the ocean. However, to the best of your understanding of the issue and to the best of your knowledge, are any solutions possible? It is not a total mystery, surely?Mr. Cusson mentioned the problem with Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, which is not governed by the North Atlantic regulations. Do you see any possible priority solutions to solve the mysterious problem of the loss of so many ocean salmon stocks?Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingSaint-Pierre et MiquelonJ.BirdJ.Bird//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/63589FrançoisLapointeFrançois-LapointeMontmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-LoupNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LapointeFrançois_CPC.jpgInterventionMr. François Lapointe: (1230)[Translation] I would like to go back to another problem that Mr. Cusson noted, namely the lack of financial support for research. For example, tracking an adult salmon by satellite may cost Atlantic salmon research organizations $25,000.It has been calculated that current funding represents only about 60% of what it was 10 or 15 years ago. What are your observations on that? Should a decision to reinvest in research be made as soon as possible? If so, which direction should we take in order to get the best possible results? Atlantic salmonHunting and sport fishingJ.BirdMarkHambrook//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau (Westmount—Ville-Marie, Lib.): (1150)[English]Thank you very much to both of you for your testimony. I'll apologize right up front if I put you on the spot with some of my questions. I'll direct my questions as well. Mr. Robertson, you talked about your 10th recommendation, which had to do with peer-to-peer relationships, and I agree. I think the most important relationship, of course, is the one between the two heads of state of the two countries. To be very honest with you, I think the relationship between our current Prime Minister and the President of the United States is a very frosty one. I don't think it's much better with Mexico, to be honest with you. Mr. Dade mentioned that it was in part because the current administration in the United States did not really put much importance on Canada, but it takes two to tango. I found it completely regrettable that the summit of the three amigos that was meant to occur in February was cancelled, and it was Canada that decided to do that with our most important trading partner and neighbour, and with a very important emerging partner, Mexico.What is your feeling about the importance of the relationship between heads of state, specifically between Canada and the United States? There have been good examples of strong relationships between Mulroney and Reagan, and Clinton and Chrétien. How important is that, in your opinion, in terms of helping with issues such as trade and other things?Canada-United States relationsMexicoSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitSetting of standardsTrading standardsDeanAllisonNiagara West—GlanbrookColinRobertson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1155)[English]Thank you.Mr. Dade, on the relationship with Mexico, I lived in Houston for nine years, and there you were constantly bathed in the United States-Mexico relationship. It was very much part of your daily life and understandably is why the United States accords a great deal of importance to Mexico and its relationship with them. On the other hand, I have the feeling that it is almost totally absent here between Canada and Mexico. One very rarely hears about it, except for such things as irritants. You've both mentioned the question of visas. What is it about Canada's position with respect to visas that they are not acting more rapidly to get rid of this significant irritant?Canada-United States relationsMexicoSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitSetting of standardsTrading standardsColinRobertsonCarloDade//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1155)[English]Okay. In that case—and I don't want to put you on the spot—is it having consequences?CarloDadeCarloDade//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/10524MarcGarneauHon.Marc-GarneauWestmount—Ville-MarieLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/GarneauMarc_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Marc Garneau: (1155)[English] Thank you.I have one last quick question.I was interested in your comment that it's not a well-kept secret that the United States may want to ultimately replace or get rid of NAFTA, if TPP comes online. From this side of the border, two of the issues I hear about that are major irritants are, obviously, supply management and intellectual property, which is perhaps the bigger one.I'd like to hear from both of you, starting with Mr. Robertson, on whether you see other major obstacles standing in the way, apart from these two big ones. Canada-United States relationsNorth American Free Trade AgreementSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitSetting of standardsTrading standardsCarloDadeColinRobertson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71434HélèneLaverdièreHélène-LaverdièreLaurier—Sainte-MarieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/LaverdièreHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène Laverdière (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, NDP): (1215)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My thanks to the witnesses for their very interesting presentations.We have talked a lot about maintaining links at the highest level and the way in which that influences the relationship as a whole.Did the fact that the summit did not take place this spring as scheduled have any particular impact, any effect, in Mexico or the United States? My question goes to Mr. Robertson and Mr. Dade.Canada-United States relationsSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitSetting of standardsTrading standardsDeanAllisonNiagara West—GlanbrookColinRobertson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71434HélèneLaverdièreHélène-LaverdièreLaurier—Sainte-MarieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/LaverdièreHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène Laverdière: (1220)[English]Or maybe it's like what Einstein, I think, said, that life is like riding a bicycle—if you're not moving, you're falling.Thank you.[Translation]I was also struck by your comments about Mexico.[English]I'm sorry. Go ahead, Mr. Wilson.Canada-United States relationsSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitSetting of standardsTrading standardsCarloDadeMichaelWilsonHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71434HélèneLaverdièreHélène-LaverdièreLaurier—Sainte-MarieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/LaverdièreHélène_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Hélène Laverdière: (1220)[English]If I still have time, I have a short question.Speaking of areas of potential cooperation, what more could the three countries do together to address the threats of climate change? Here again my question would be for the three of you, though I don't know if we'll have enough time.Canada-United States relationsClimate change and global warmingSecurity and Prosperity Partnership SummitSetting of standardsTrading standardsMichaelWilsonHon.ColinRobertson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat (Pontiac, NDP): (1110)[English]Thank you, Minister, for being here. We don't always have the best of luck getting ministers to come here to protect their plans and priorities or their estimates, so I'm happy to see you today.I'd like to ask a question about the search and rescue RFP. Mr. Perry is, as you know, a well-known expert. He said that the fact that the request for proposal, the RFP, is out is a good sign. But that RFP has been out before and nothing has moved on it. Can you give us assurances that something actually will be done about search and rescue vehicles in this country?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesInvitation to tenderMain estimates 2015-2016Military equipment and facilitiesReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Search and rescueShared Services CanadaPatMartinWinnipeg CentreDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1110)[English]Can you give us a sense of what exactly is going to be delivered in the next year?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1115)[English]Obviously, this is an important issue. We're talking about the safety of Canadians. Can you say anything to reassure Canadians that there will actually be vehicles in operation in the near future?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1115)[English]In operation.DianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1115)[English]Moving on to personnel, necessary expertise in the Canadian military, there seems to be money there, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of hiring going on. For example, industry watchers have said that the military has lost many skilled workers in cutbacks in the previous decades. Can you tell me if there's a strategy in place to come to some kind of analysis and some kind of progress with regard to making sure that we have the expertise necessary in the military?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1115)[English]Okay.[Translation]Regarding the relocation contract that is renewed year after year with Royal LePage and the CIBC, without a call for tenders—we know that the government was to pay $30 million for discriminatory treatment, and that the contract in question was to expire in 2014.What has Public Works and Government Services Canada done since that decision was handed down? Are there new adjudication practices, for instance with regard to the management of the Integrated Relocation program?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesGovernment contractsIntegrated Relocation ProgramMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1115)[Translation]Did you study the problem that existed in the past? Is the department sure that it will have an open, fair bidding process with reasonable and competitive criteria? Can you give us some ideas of the analysis that was done of that dossier?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi (Saint-Jean, NDP): (1125)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Madam Minister, a little over a year ago you announced the creation of the Defence Analytics Institute, involving quite an interesting mixed group of business people and academics.What is the status today regarding the creation of that institute?Defence Analytics InstituteDepartment of Public Works and Government ServicesGovernment contractsMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaPatMartinWinnipeg CentreDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1125)[Translation]How many people will work in that institute?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1125)[Translation]Do you have any preliminary reports on the solutions being considered?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1125)[Translation]In other words, no date has been set for the release of a preliminary report. The point is to see whether things need to change within the military procurement process in Canada. I expect that the objective is to improve the process.Department of Public Works and Government ServicesGovernment contractsMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1125)[Translation]I see.At the same time, in mid-2014, you released the new Defence Acquisition Guide with the minister at the time, Mr. Nicholson.After almost a year, what conclusions have been drawn as to the effectiveness of the new guide?Has this underscored some of the weaknesses of the procurement process?Has there been any feedback concerning the use of the new guide?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne (Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, Lib.): (1135)[English]Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Minister, and your officials, for appearing before us. I want to return to the shipbuilding program. You indicated that the shipbuilding program is going exceptionally well, which is an idea not shared by many outside of the government. It has actually been described by most commentators as being on the rocks. I want to return to B.C., to the west coast shipbuilding program for the non-combat vessels. Seaspan has been notionally awarded an $8 billion contract, but they have yet to indicate that they have the necessary capacity to fulfill the contract. There is some controversy brewing about how Seaspan can get to that point. They have until June of this year, I understand, to fulfill their requirements under the notional agreement before a formal contract can be awarded. What are the plans for the Esquimalt graving dock? Are there talks under way whereby Seaspan or some other operator might acquire, through a long-term lease, the rights to operate exclusively or nearly exclusively at the Esquimalt graving dock?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesEsquimalt Graving DockGovernment contractsMain estimates 2015-2016National Shipbuilding Procurement StrategyReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016SeaspanShared Services CanadaShipbuilding industryPatMartinWinnipeg CentreDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1140)[English]Minister, rather than waiting and watching, why don't you explain to this committee exactly what Seaspan has to do to fulfill its requirements to be successfully awarded a contract? They have until June to provide evidence that they are capacity ready. What has to be accomplished between now and then, and as part of that process, are they in discussions to take over the Esquimalt graving dock under a lease?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesEsquimalt Graving DockGovernment contractsMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaShipbuilding industryDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1140)[English]Minister, what you're saying is there is nothing really specific that Seaspan has to accomplish, and they should be able to be contract-ready by June 2015. Will you explain to us exactly what it is they have to do to meet that requirement? What has to be accomplished?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1140)[English] Just so I'm clear, it's to meet basic bid requirements they tendered for and they were accepted for. You deem that to be a commercial competence. In terms of capacity which was required to be able to participate in this contract—that was an open tendering process, we presume—are you saying now that's a commercial confidentiality?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1140)[English]They've already been assigned the contract or the notional contract. What's competitive about that at this point in time? Is there a possibility that it could be reassigned to another contractor?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1145)[English]Concerns have been raised about the security issues for Shared Services Canada particularly with regard to Bell's involvement. I'd like to know what you have to say about that. Do you think that Bell, for example, has the necessary expertise? How are you ensuring that data is being protected while this transition is going on? Department of Public Works and Government Servicese-SecurityGovernment shared servicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaPatMartinWinnipeg CentreLiseanneForand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1150)[English]I'm sorry to interrupt you. Thanks for the context, but I'd like to know what is being done practically to ensure the safety of data.LiseanneForandLiseanneForand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1150)[English] Are you confident that the players at the table, Bell, Microsoft, and so on have a good sense of what our security needs are with regard to data, particularly within the public service and in serving the public?Department of Public Works and Government Servicese-SecurityMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLiseanneForandLiseanneForand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1150)[English]Canadians will be watching; there's no doubt about it. As you know, there have been events in the past where viruses have caused servers to crash. Hopefully, you've taken that experience into consideration as you go forward.Let me ask a question of the minister.[Translation] A few weeks ago, I asked you some questions about the situation in Phase III of the Place du Portage building, in connection with the presence of Legionnaire's disease-related bacteria. You answered me in the House. You did not deny that there was a problem. You said that the level of risk was low, but you did not address the issue of the delay between when these bacteria were found, and when the public servants who work in these offices were well informed.Have you examined the situation since? Can you reassure these public servants who, as you know, live in my riding and in the National Capital Region? What have you done to guarantee to these people that, in the coming weeks, they are going to be working in a safe and healthy environment?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesGovernment facilitiesLegionellosisMain estimates 2015-2016National Capital RegionReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLiseanneForandDianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—Norfolk//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1150)[English]My concern isn't so much the fact that there's been an analysis. I commend you for that diligence. It's a matter of the delay in informing the public servants when it did happen. Have you looked at what happened there?DianeFinleyHon.Haldimand—NorfolkPatMartinWinnipeg Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1205)[English]There's what I would call a considerable amount of confusion within the public service with regard to how Shared Services Canada is going to result in efficiencies for them. What's being done to inform them about the changes that are coming? I have a follow-up question to that, but we'll start there.Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016ModernizationPublic Service and public servantsReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaPatMartinWinnipeg CentreLiseanneForand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1205)[English]When I speak to public servants, almost all of them say that what was good about the old system, particularly when it came to email, was that it was responsive to differing needs—I'm sure that's not the first time you've heard that—and that there's a considerable amount of fear with regard to going to shared services, because they're going to lose that kind of flexibility. They're going to lose what they need that is specific to their workplace and specific, even, to their category or job.What can you tell them to reassure them that this kind of one-size-fits-all system is going to actually allow them to do their job more efficiently?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesElectronic mailGovernment shared servicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLiseanneForandLiseanneForand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1205)[English] Turning to the delays, are there financial repercussions with regard to the contract between you and Bell with regard to these delays? Are they getting off scot-free?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLiseanneForandLiseanneForand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1210)[English]So you can assure Canadians that it's not like a construction company that finds new costs and then suddenly you're dishing out more taxpayers' money for this contract.Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLiseanneForandLiseanneForand//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1215)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to go back to what the minister explained to us earlier. The logic has been reversed with the new military procurement process. This process allows for a reduction in the time between when a call for tenders is issued to the industry, and the moment when the industry may submit bids. However, it does take some time before such a bid can be put together.I will take Irving Shipbuilding as an example. Let's imagine that a company manufactures propellers in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu and wants to bid on a project. How did you change the old method so as to allow businesses to have access to these new projects? For instance, Service Marine Canada in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu told me that it could not bid on these calls for tenders because it is like a private club. The smaller businesses become the subcontractors of these large businesses that contract out orders. It is a private club.How have you changed the way things are done to give smaller businesses access to these calls for tenders?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesGovernment contractsMain estimates 2015-2016Military equipment and facilitiesReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaPatMartinWinnipeg CentreGeorgeDa Pont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1215)[Translation]I understand that and I understand the philosophy.However, how does the department make sure that there is a transparent process that will allow all of the Canadian small and medium businesses to propose their services, when it deals with a large subcontractor like Irving? The SMEs have the production capacity, the technology or the necessary knowledge. What mechanisms are now in place which were not there before? What are the new mechanisms to ensure that the large company will respect that? Has there been some kind of change in methodology?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesGovernment contractsMain estimates 2015-2016Military equipment and facilitiesReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaSmall and medium-sized enterprisesGeorgeDa PontGeorgeDa Pont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1225)[English]I'll make a quick observation, which I cannot leave without noting. The government and the Conservative caucus have made a very strong and compelling case that taking $30 billion out of the back pocket of taxpayers, putting it in the hands of the government, and getting the government to spend it on a big megaproject is really good for the economy and for everybody around us. I wanted to make that observation. The government and the Conservative caucus have made a very strong and compelling case for that.On that note, could the expert witnesses before us please give us an update on the procurement of Canada's replacement of the war fighter project? What's the current status? Are you anywhere near moving toward a final tender?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Military equipment and facilitiesReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaPatMartinWinnipeg CentreGeorgeDa Pont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1225)[English]You say there's a very small number. Would you be able to further elaborate on that, saying specifically who those are?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaGeorgeDa PontGeorgeDa Pont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1225)[English]I'm missing something here. You say you've identified a small number, but now you say you can't—Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaGeorgeDa PontGeorgeDa Pont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1225)[English]—likely of a smaller number. Okay, thanks very much.Basically you are confirming again to this committee that it will be an open bidding process, based on what you anticipate will be a very small number.Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaGeorgeDa PontGeorgeDa Pont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1230)[English]Could you elaborate on what some of those qualifications might be?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaGeorgeDa PontGeorgeDa Pont//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1230)[English]No, this is the war fighter we're talking about.Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLisaCampbellLisaCampbell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1230)[English]So you're telling us that we will be fully operational with a replacement aircraft by 2020.Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLisaCampbellLisaCampbell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1230)[English]Aircraft, I said the war fighter.Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLisaCampbellLisaCampbell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13GerryByrneHon.Gerry-ByrneHumber—St. Barbe—Baie VerteLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ByrneGerry_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Gerry Byrne: (1230)[English]No, the war fighter. We're not talking about the same thing. The aircraft replacement strategy is deemed the Canadian war fighter aircraft.Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLisaCampbellLisaCampbell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1240)[Translation]Ms. Campbell, you work at the Acquisitions Branch. According to what I understand there are three secretariats. One which deals with marine acquisitions, a second that deals with defence equipment, and a third that is tasked with replacing the fighter jets, that is the CF-18s. These vehicles are in the air and not on water. Do we understand each other so far?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Military aircraftReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaPatMartinWinnipeg CentreLisaCampbell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1240)[Translation]Can you reply to Mr. Byrne's question concerning what will happen in the next few months? In your opinion, will there be a first draft of the call for tenders before the election?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Military aircraftReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLisaCampbellLisaCampbell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1240)[Translation]This means that the secretariat that had been announced by Mr. Nicholson, the Minister of Defence at the time, concerning the replacement of the CF-18s when it was realized that the F-35s no longer met the needs, will be absorbed into a larger secretariat. Is that what you are saying?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesGovernment contractsMain estimates 2015-2016Military aircraftReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLisaCampbellLisaCampbell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1240)[Translation]I see.Has a short list of aircraft manufacturers been drawn up? I sit on the Standing Committee on National Defence. In 2011, preliminary discussions took place with various manufacturers, among them some European companies. Will this short list be updated? What is the situation on that?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesGovernment contractsMain estimates 2015-2016Military aircraftReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLisaCampbellLisaCampbell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1240)[Translation]I have one last question concerning the aircraft.Since almost a year ago, six fighter planes deployed in Kuwait for strikes in Iraq have been extended to the intervention in Syria. These planes are rotated. Some witnesses explained to the national defence committee that the fleet of planes was managed at the Bagotville and Cold Lake bases. Does this exert more pressure to accelerate the aircraft replacement process?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesMain estimates 2015-2016Reports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaLisaCampbellLisaCampbell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71537TarikBrahmiTarik-BrahmiSaint-JeanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BrahmiTarik_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tarik Brahmi: (1240)[Translation]Okay.LisaCampbellPatMartinWinnipeg Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/318MathieuRavignatMathieu-RavignatPontiacNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/RavignatMathieu_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Mathieu Ravignat: (1240)[Translation]What I find a bit worrisome in your reply is that we now know even less about the building of fighter aircraft in Canada. I think most people here would agree that we need these planes. In reply to my colleague's question, you confirmed that there is no more short list, if I understood correctly. Currently, there is no contract with aircraft manufacturers, but you are simply waiting to see if the politician or minister responsible will choose a plane.Did I understand you correctly?Department of Public Works and Government ServicesGovernment contractsMain estimates 2015-2016Military aircraftReports on Plans and Priorities, Main Estimates, 2015-2016Shared Services CanadaPatMartinWinnipeg CentreLisaCampbell//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse (Louis-Saint-Laurent, NDP): (1120)[Translation]I have two fairly simple questions about the five individuals needed to submit a petition. How does that work?If I want to start a petition, and five of my friends agree with me, am I supposed to enter their information myself and provide their email addresses?I want to make sure I really understand how it works.Afterwards, the five signatories must respond in the affirmative for the petition to be considered. Is that how it works?Electronic petitionsParliament of CanadaJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—LondonJean-PhilippeBrochu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1120)[Translation]Yes.So what mechanisms will be in place? Let's say someone no longer has access to their email, and I do not have five signatories. As the sponsor, would I be able to add other names to at least reach that five-person threshold?Electronic petitionsParliament of CanadaJean-PhilippeBrochuJean-PhilippeBrochu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1120)[Translation]Great. That is a clear response to my question.I have another question. You say that MPs will be contacted, that they will receive one reminder after 10 days, another one 3 days before the closing date, with a 30-day timeframe. What will the process consist of? Will an email be sent to the general mailbox? How will MPs be contacted?Electronic petitionsParliament of CanadaJean-PhilippeBrochuJean-PhilippeBrochu//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Alexandrine Latendresse: (1120)[Translation]That is a very good idea. You have answered my questions.Electronic petitionsParliament of CanadaJean-PhilippeBrochuJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—London//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1200)[Translation]We are resuming our 83rd meeting.Today, we are continuing our consideration of Bill C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act. The four witnesses will have five minutes each to make a presentation. Afterwards, the members of the committee will be able to ask them questions.By video conference, we will hear from Mr. Pilon and Ms. Woo. I will give them the floor first, just in case we experience any technical difficulties. We will then go to Mr. Pal and Mr. Lee. I now give the floor to Professor Pilon.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersJoePrestonElgin—Middlesex—LondonDennisPilon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1205)[Translation]Thank you very much.I now give the floor to Ms. Woo.DennisPilonJoannaWoo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1210)[Translation]Thank you very much, Ms. Woo.The committee members will probably have some questions for you after the other two witnesses have delivered their presentationsMr. Lee, the floor is yours.JoannaWooIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1215)[Translation]I now give the floor to Mr. Pal.IanLeeMichaelPal//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1220)[Translation]Thank you very much.We will now move on to questions.Mr. Reid, you have seven minutes.MichaelPalScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1225)[Translation]Mr. Christopherson, go ahead for seven minutes.ScottReidLanark—Frontenac—Lennox and AddingtonDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1235)[English]Thank you very much.MichaelPalDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1235)[Translation]Mr. Simms, you have the floor for seven minutes.DavidChristophersonHamilton CentreScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, Lib.): (1235)[English]There are challenges being on this committee. One of the challenges is following Mr. Christopherson. I'll try anyway, just for the sake of getting through this. I want to thank everyone for being here because this is very enlightening. I want to go straight to a quote that I have heard time and time again, and I want to go straight to an issue that I've heard of not only on this legislation but others. Dr. Pilon, I think you said it's a solution to a problem that does not exist, or as I like to put it, a solution in search of a problem. This comes up time and time again. Specifically, I'd like to talk to Dr. Woo who has experience as an international elector. You talked about provisional ballots, that they would to a great extent allow you to exercise your rights and it would eventually be counted. However, I have an alternative. How about we provide a permanent list that puts you on that list and gives you the access whenever the writ is dropped? C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActCanadians in foreign countriesGovernment billsVoting and votersAlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentJoannaWoo//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1235)[English]Thank you very much for that. This leads me to Dr. Lee.Dr. Lee, I really liked your article. I can't dispute a lot of it.You put a lot of IDs out there: Stats Canada, Aboriginal Affairs, 800,000 cards. I won't go through it because you did as well. There is a whole host of identification. A lot of it is tracked by the federal government, but it is provincial ID for the most part—Dr. Ian Lee: Some.Mr. Scott Simms: —for getting on a plane, getting on a train. I'm going to end with what you say in your article. You say, “contrary to the critics, this research reveals that low income people need significantly more ID”. I agree with that. It's very tough to get welfare.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsIdentity cardsLow incomeVoter identificationVoting and votersJoannaWooIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1235)[English]I appreciate that. I deal with it every day.The unsubstantiated, undocumented allegation that significant numbers of Canadians possess no identity cards appears to be a legend. But you also say that, digitally, we are not invisible. That's where we agree.Here's where our opinions may diverge. You are not invisible to the government when it wants to find you.Dr. Ian Lee: That's right.Mr. Scott Simms: But, sir, this is an election and when the vote is called, the government doesn't come looking for you. You have to go to the ballot box.Dr. Ian Lee: Right.Mr. Scott Simms: There are so many pieces of ID that may be available to people, such as seniors IDs, such as attestations, such as all of this, that it becomes difficult in a short timeframe. We may think five weeks is not a short timeframe, but for people who are not engaged in politics, it's short and it's hard for them to do.My question is this. One of the things government has done is eliminate the use of the voter information card. It's one of the few federal IDs. Do you not think, in light of this, that would go a long way?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActElectoral systemGovernment billsIdentity cardsVoter identificationVoter information cardsVoting and votersIanLeeIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]That's true. But here's one of the problems: you can't use that.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsPassports and visasVoter identificationVoting and votersIanLeeIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]It doesn't have your address.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersIanLeeIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]It can't be used.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersIanLeeCraigScottToronto—Danforth//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]Just a second—CraigScottToronto—DanforthIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]Okay, but I'd like to get back to the voter information card. If that contains your address and you have other photo ID, don't you think that under your reasoning, under your logic, the voter information card should...?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter information cardsVoting and votersIanLeeIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]What if they don't enumerate any more?C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersIanLeeIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]On a lot of this, sir, I don't disagree with you. However, let's go back to what Dr. Pal said about the constitutionality aspect of this. Again, government doesn't come looking for you to vote. We don't have the Australian system of mandatory voting.Dr. Ian Lee: Right.Mr. Scott Simms: Therefore, what he is saying, which I agree with, is that we cannot make it.... In other words, all your information here is outlining the fact that most people, the vast majority of people have the right amount of ID.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersIanLeeIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]But I think that everybody has a right to vote, which goes to the Constitution, which says we should make sure that everybody has the right, which really.... Every government has a responsibility to make it as easy as possible for people to vote.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoter identificationVoting and votersIanLeeIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English] Is that at 65 or 67?IanLeeIanLee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1240)[English]The only thing I can ask you to do is to join me in the next campaign. Why don't you come on election day to see how many people are turned away from the polls? That's all I ask.But anyway, Dr. Lee, I appreciate and I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying, but fundamentally, it comes down to the Constitution, and I think, sir, you've missed the point.C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections ActGovernment billsVoting and votersIanLeeAlexandrineLatendresseLouis-Saint-Laurent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1245)[English]Thank you, Mr. Simms.Mr. Richards, go ahead for four minutes.ScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorBlakeRichardsWild Rose//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1250)[English]I'm really sorry, Mr. Richards. Your time is up. We'll have to go to the next in line. Mr. Scott, you have four minutes.IanLeeCraigScottToronto—Danforth//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1250)[Translation]There are no more names on the list. So if any of you have specific questions you would like to ask, I will give you an opportunity to do so in the few minutes we have left.Mr. Scott, go ahead.CraigScottToronto—DanforthCraigScottToronto—Danforth//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1255)[Translation]Thank you very much.My thanks to the witnesses for making their presentations and answering the committee members' questions. It was very informative, and we hope it has made us a bit smarter.[English]Is there anything else for the will of the committee today?Monsieur Christopherson.CraigScottToronto—DanforthDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58705AlexandrineLatendresseAlexandrine-LatendresseLouis-Saint-LaurentNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/LatendresseAlexandrine_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Vice-Chair (Ms. Alexandrine Latendresse): (1255)[Translation]Thank you.The meeting is adjourned.DavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71458JonathanGenest-JourdainJonathan-Genest-JourdainManicouaganNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GenestJourdainJonathan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jonathan Genest-Jourdain (Manicouagan, NDP): (0945)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning, Mr. Faille. My university studies in company law dealt a lot with white-collar crime and the effect it has on first nations' economic development across the country. As you will see, that will be the focus of my questions this morning.I understood your presentation completely. The Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business has a program that certifies aboriginal businesses. But there is one aspect that I have a little difficulty grasping. The tax rules apply to status Indians pursuant to the Indian Act. Other than a company owned by one individual, I have difficulty seeing how a company can become certified as aboriginal. What do you understand by the term “aboriginal business”?Capital investmentFirst NationsJohnBarlowMacleodMaximeFaille//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71458JonathanGenest-JourdainJonathan-Genest-JourdainManicouaganNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GenestJourdainJonathan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jonathan Genest-Jourdain: (0945)[Translation]So it can be one individual, or several.Capital investmentFirst NationsMaximeFailleMaximeFaille//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71458JonathanGenest-JourdainJonathan-Genest-JourdainManicouaganNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GenestJourdainJonathan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jonathan Genest-Jourdain: (0945)[Translation]Okay.In your document, you use the phrase “51% or more owned by an aboriginal person”. Are we talking about voting shares as part of the distributed share capital or 51% of the shares issued?You know as well as I do that the power lies in the hands of those owning the voting shares. That is basically the crux of the issue. North of 50, we see that trick a lot, including in my own community. I feel that it is currently a considerable brake on economic development and progress.Capital investmentFirst NationsMaximeFailleMaximeFaille//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71458JonathanGenest-JourdainJonathan-Genest-JourdainManicouaganNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GenestJourdainJonathan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jonathan Genest-Jourdain: (0945)[Translation]In the form of voting shares. Okay.The TD Bank Financial Group has a program called “Aboriginal Trust and Investment Services”.Mr. Davis, trust accounts are fine, but at what point do they come into play and how relevant are they, for example, in remote communities? What trust services do you offer to communities?Capital investmentFirst NationsMaximeFailleClintDavis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71458JonathanGenest-JourdainJonathan-Genest-JourdainManicouaganNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GenestJourdainJonathan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jonathan Genest-Jourdain: (0950)[Translation]When first nations constituents come to my office and tell me that the band council is robbing Peter to pay Paul by dipping into money intended for education in order to fill up another pot with less money in it, my reply is often that a practical solution would be to set up a trust account. Money would then simply go to the intended purpose and there would be no more robbing Peter.Do you offer services like that? Do you think it would be possible to turn everything over to an independent administrator who would guarantee the final destination so that people could be sure that the money would be applied to the area for which it was originally designated?Capital investmentEducation and trainingFirst NationsLoan collateralTrust funds and trusteesClintDavisClintDavis//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71458JonathanGenest-JourdainJonathan-Genest-JourdainManicouaganNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GenestJourdainJonathan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jonathan Genest-Jourdain: (0950)[Translation]Thank you.Mr. Faille, do you have anything to add on that?Capital investmentFirst NationsClintDavisMaximeFaille//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71458JonathanGenest-JourdainJonathan-Genest-JourdainManicouaganNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GenestJourdainJonathan_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jonathan Genest-Jourdain: (0950)[Translation]Thank you.MaximeFailleBlakeRichardsWild Rose//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine (Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, NDP): (0850)[Translation] Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd also like to thank the witnesses for joining us today and answering questions. Right off the bat, Mr. Butler, I'd like you to tell us what the new retirement income security benefit will entail. Will it encompass all of the amounts veterans are entitled to, meaning the earnings loss benefit as well as the permanent impairment allowance? Will the 70% formula apply to all the amounts that the veteran was entitled to before turning 65?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRetirement Income Security BenefitRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansBernardButler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (0850)[Translation]Okay.If I understand correctly, then, certain amounts are being deducted. I'd like you to specify exactly which amounts are being deducted from the calculation you described.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRetirement Income Security BenefitBernardButlerBernardButler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (0855)[Translation]Great. Thank you. As I understand it, the new benefit will be transferable to the spouse of the deceased veteran. Will the amount transferred to the spouse be exactly the same? For instance, if the veteran dies at the age of 66, will his or her spouse receive exactly the same amount that the veteran had been receiving until his or her death, or will the amount be lower? My understanding was that the spouse would receive 50%. So I'd like you to clarify how much of the amount will be transferable to the surviving spouse.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRetirement Income Security BenefitSurviving spousesBernardButlerBernardButler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71430Marc-AndréMorinMarc-André-MorinLaurentides—LabelleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarcAndré_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Marc-André Morin (Laurentides—Labelle, NDP): (0935)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'd like to know why it will take five years before more case managers are on the job.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsStaffingRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansMichelDoiron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71430Marc-AndréMorinMarc-André-MorinLaurentides—LabelleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarcAndré_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Marc-André Morin: (0935)[Translation]Meanwhile, veterans are waiting. They are waiting until all of those case managers are on the job. In any case, there is a lot I don't know about the issue, but it makes me think of my friend Jacques. He's 92. One of his legs was shattered in the Italian campaign when he was 18. His last leg operation was in February. He told me about the services he was receiving. He said that his story was a simple one. He and 10 of his buddies set off crawling through the trenches and spent a year and a half being shot at. He buried half of his friends, and when he got back, he could no longer walk. His father had to lift him off the train. He was never able to do any sports. In a nutshell, he needed assistance in order to live. While it may be a simple story, he still has to fill out paperwork, with all kinds of fine print to take into account. He knows how to use the Internet, he chats with his nieces and nephews, he isn't afraid of using a computer, but in his eyes, it's an insult to be forced to do it, to have that constraint placed on him. When you've been through what he's been through, you need to talk to a human being. It's a bit long-winded, but—Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMichelDoironMichelDoiron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71430Marc-AndréMorinMarc-André-MorinLaurentides—LabelleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarcAndré_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Marc-André Morin: (0935)[Translation]The government would have done well not to get rid of them in the first place. How do you justify how complex the system is?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresFormsGovernment billsMichelDoironMichelDoiron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71430Marc-AndréMorinMarc-André-MorinLaurentides—LabelleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarcAndré_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Marc-André Morin: (0935)[Translation] I would remind you that these aren't actuaries or lawyers who've been injured.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresFormsGovernment billsMichelDoironMichelDoiron//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71430Marc-AndréMorinMarc-André-MorinLaurentides—LabelleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarcAndré_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Marc-André Morin: (0940)[Translation]I know you're just doing your job, and I wouldn't want to be in your shoes these days, but it doesn't seem like things are changing very quickly. Every single government since the beginning has had a hand in creating the situation. It's like watching a clock that has stopped. If your patient enough to sit and watch it for 24 hours, it will display the right time twice.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsVeterans benefitsMichelDoironBernardButler//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1005)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd also like to thank the witnesses for sharing their observations in their opening remarks. This is just the first step in improving the new veterans charter. A lot of improvements still need to be made, improvements that appear in the ombudsman's reports over the past few years, as well as in the committee's June 2014 report. You called the legislation a step in the right direction, but I tend to view it as a half-measure as far as the three new benefits are concerned. For instance, the retirement income security benefit is better than nothing, yes, but it only provides 70%. Mr. Forbes said that he was actually in favour of a formula that would provide 100%. Veterans should receive 100% of the benefit amount throughout their retirement years. Mr. Parent, I believe that was also one of your recommendations. I'd like to hear your thoughts on each of the benefits, beginning with the retirement income security benefit. As the legislation is currently worded, does the benefit guarantee veterans financial security in their retirement years, post-65?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRetirement Income Security BenefitRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansGuyParent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1005)[Translation]Do you think the formula provided for is sufficient? As you mentioned, the person already loses income when they are injured. The allowance is 75%, but my understanding is that it will actually be between 70% and 75%, and that means 50% of the amount the member was receiving before the injury. Injured members are already receiving less income support, and that amount will drop even further post-retirement if they haven't made pension contributions for at least 10 years. In your view, is a benefit that represents 70% to 75% of the amount they were previously receiving sufficient for veterans to have a decent standard of living in their retirement years? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRetirement Income Security BenefitGuyParentGuyParent//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1010)[Translation]Mr. Forbes, what do you think? GuyParentBrianForbes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71377SylvainChicoineSylvain-ChicoineChâteauguay—Saint-ConstantNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/ChicoineSylvain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Sylvain Chicoine: (1045)[Translation] Thank you, Mr. Chair.It's short notice. Neither John nor Peter will be here tomorrow. As for me, I can't commit to finding people. I'm not against the idea of holding an extra meeting, but it might be better to have it next week. I could say yes but, at the same time, I know that two members of the committee probably won't be available. Committee businessRoyalGalipeauOttawa—OrléansJohnRaffertyThunder Bay—Rainy River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre (Alfred-Pellan, NDP): (0920)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would like to thank the witnesses who came here today to discuss various provisions of Bill C-59 relating to public safety.I have a number of questions about the new powers that have been given to the Minister of Public Safety with respect to the revocation of passports. I don't know if you can answer this question, but I'd like to know who determines whether a case falls within the jurisdiction of the Minister of Public Safety rather than the Minister of Immigration.Who makes that decision?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresDiscretionary powersNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsJohnDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (0920)[Translation]Okay.There was discussion of what constitutes terrorism or a threat to security. I would like to know whether this definition includes what is in Bill C-51, which covers a threat to the Canadian economy and infrastructures.Is that part of what is being proposed here?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresDiscretionary powersNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsJohnDaviesSophieBeecher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (0920)[Translation]That's excellent.It's really a question that a number of members and a large part of the population are asking: Why are these amendments or proposals in a budget implementation bill?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsRituBanerjeeDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (0925)[Translation]This is one of the suggested questions in the official briefing notes. That's why I asked it. I think it's a question that is important to answer. I am disappointed to see that we will unfortunately not get an answer.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCostsNational securityPassports and visasPoints of orderTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (0925)[Translation]Are there any costs related to implementing these measures?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCostsNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsJohnDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (0925)[Translation]If I've understood correctly, it is not tied directly to the budget.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCostsNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsJohnDaviesJohnDavies//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (0925)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Would it be possible to know what the true benefits of these changes are? Why not simply let the Minister of Immigration have the power to revoke passports instead of sharing those powers between the ministers of Immigration and Public Safety?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsRituBanerjee//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud (Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, NDP): (0930)[Translation]Thank you very much.The government states that this bill is a balance between protecting the safety of Canadians and foreign nationals, on the one hand, and that of individuals who might be accused of terrorism, on the other. However, the bill indicates that the chief justice of the Federal Court should, in certain circumstances, hold a hearing in private in the absence of the applicant or their counsel.In the event of a mistake, it seems to me that the defendant is not well protected. In fact, no one is there to defend the defendant's rights.First, could you specify the circumstances in which a judge might decide to hold a hearing in private and exclude the counsel representing the defendant?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsSophieBeecher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (0935)[Translation]If I've understood correctly, if the judge determines that the information is sensitive, counsel for the accused will have access only to the summary and will therefore not have access to all the evidence to properly defend the client.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresInformation disseminationNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsSophieBeecherSophieBeecher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (0935)[Translation]Does the Prevention of Terrorist Travel Act contain a provision that would allow for the participation of a special advocate who would have access to sensitive information and the evidence? Is that set out in the current bill? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresInformation disseminationNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsSophieBeecherSophieBeecher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (0935)[Translation]If I've understood correctly, someone whose passport is revoked for reasons not related to national security may have access to a special advocate or may benefit from the involvement and assistance of someone else. But, someone whose passport is revoked for a reason relating to national security under this legislation would not have the same privileges or the same opportunities, at least.Appeals and appeals officersBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsSophieBeecherSophieBeecher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (0935)[Translation]Thank you.It has also been mentioned that when judges have to make their decision, they will have to take into consideration all the information available, but set aside any information that has been withdrawn by the minister. If I've understood correctly, judges will not necessarily have access to all the information on the case.Appeals and appeals officersBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresInformation disseminationNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsSophieBeecherSophieBeecher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (0935)[Translation]—that the minister deems relevant to provide to them.Appeals and appeals officersBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresInformation disseminationNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsSophieBeecherSophieBeecher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (0935)[Translation]The judge will be able to read the information, but will not be able to take it into account.Appeals and appeals officersBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresInformation disseminationNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsSophieBeecherSophieBeecher//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (0935)[Translation]Is it at the minister's discretion?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresDiscretionary powersNational securityPassports and visasTerrorism and terroristsTravel restrictionsSophieBeecherDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1025)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would like to thank the witnesses for being here today.I would like to quickly go back to a point that my colleague raised about the problems that some of my colleagues have already experienced with regard to access to Parliament Hill. The Speaker of the House of Commons acknowledged that there had been a breach of parliamentary privilege. A motion was put forward in the House, but it was defeated. So we can't study the issue.Since the Speaker of the House of Commons cannot act unless there is a vote in the House, I'm wondering if a mechanism in the provision of this part of the bill can resolve this problem. In fact, in the context of a majority government, my privileges won't necessarily be protected if the government decides not to push the matter any further.Does anything in these provisions protect me, as a member of the opposition?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsParliament HillParliamentary privilegeParliamentary Protective ServiceRights of Members breachedDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsIsabelleMondou//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1030)[Translation]So I, too, will be required to raise the fact that there may be a problem of political influence within this process. It's not entirely neutral. Actually, we need to have a vote in the House of Commons. As a parliamentarian, I see a huge problem with this.That said, I will move on to another point because I have several questions.In your presentation, you spoke about a directive or at least about some advice from the Auditor General from June 2012. He recommended that the security services within the Parliamentary Precinct be unified. In this case, as well, it was not a matter of entrusting all this responsibility to an external entity.Does this decision stem from political will, from an instruction that the government gave when the bill was drafted, or is it a choice made based on consultations carried out when it was being drafted?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsParliament HillParliamentary Protective ServiceIsabelleMondouDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1030)[Translation]It stems directly from the votes adopted in the House by the government, which has a majority. In other words, it is not the will of Parliament, let's be very clear. It's the will of the government. Since there is no probing data behind this decision, I'll conclude that it's a political choice. Thank you.Can you tell us whether, in terms of bilingualism, additional obligations will be imposed on Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers who work on the Hill?Some of my colleagues have already had difficulty getting served in French by certain officers who are on Parliament Hill.Do the provisions presented here include a specific obligation in that respect?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsOfficial languages policyParliament HillParliamentary Protective ServiceRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceDavidVigneaultIsabelleMondou//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1030)[Translation]That's unfortunate. I personally have never had a problem with any officers of the House of Commons or the Senate. But the services provided by the RCMP outside the Hill or even inside are not the same when it comes to bilingualism. I find it a little unfortunate that no changes are being made in that regard.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsOfficial languages policyParliament HillParliamentary Protective ServiceIsabelleMondouIsabelleMondou//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1030)[Translation]In this case, revisions may be necessary because these obligations aren't currently being observed, unfortunately.Could you tell me what specific training will be given to RCMP officers regarding parliamentary privileges? There still seem to be gaps in that respect. Could you give us some details on that?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsParliament HillParliamentary privilegeParliamentary Protective ServiceRights of Members breachedIsabelleMondouDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1030)[Translation]So we don't know if it will have to go to a vote.My time is up, but the discussion was interesting.DavidVigneaultDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1040)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would like to thank Ms. Mondou and Mr. Vigneault for being with us to provide some clarification on what will happen to operational security on Parliament Hill.I know that this has been a sensitive topic in recent weeks and recent months. I appreciate that you are trying to provide some clarification on the matter.I would like to continue discussing what will happen to current security employees of the House of Commons and the Senate. The last question that Mr. Payne asked concerning the collective agreements and current security employees of the House of Commons and Senate was very interesting.When there was the debate in the House of Commons, I remember that the constables were relatively concerned about what was going to happen to their positions.It was also mentioned that a lot of current security employees of the House of Commons and the Senate will retire or are thinking of retiring in the next few years. What will happen to those positions? Will new people be hired to fill their positions? Will we rely on the RCMP to fill them? Will the special force of security officers in Parliament be quietly and completely replaced by the RCMP? What's going to happen in the future?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsParliament HillParliamentary Protective ServicePersonnel attritionDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsIsabelleMondou//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1040)[Translation]The current security employees of the House of Commons and Senate have their union and their collective agreement. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police still does not have the right to unionize and, therefore, does not have a collective agreement. Will there have to be two sets of rules?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective agreementsGovernment billsParliament HillParliamentary Protective ServiceRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceIsabelleMondouIsabelleMondou//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1040)[Translation]Is the Royal Canadian Mounted Police ready to take command and control of security on Parliament Hill?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsParliament HillParliamentary Protective ServiceRoyal Canadian Mounted PoliceIsabelleMondouDavidVigneault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1045)[Translation]If I've understood correctly, that means that the government is planning $60 million over three years for RCMP officers on the Hill. I would like to know how much it will cost in total.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsParliament HillParliamentary Protective ServiceDavidVigneaultIsabelleMondou//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle (Rivière-du-Nord, NDP): (0935)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today.If I'm not mistaken, an OECD study was published last week about the increasing inequality in our societies and the impact of this increase. I am talking about the Gini coefficient. I'm guessing that most of you are familiar with this concept. The study says that this increase in inequality has a major impact on GDP growth. We see that the budget proposes two measures: the TFSA program and income splitting, which will lead to increasing wealth and income inequalities. My question is for Mr. Fréchette. Have you calculated the impact of those two measures on GDP growth?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsIncome distributionIncome splittingTax Free Savings AccountJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJean-DenisFréchette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0935)[Translation]I'm sorry to interrupt you, but you are already anticipating an impact in terms of inequalities. For instance, in 2060, wealthier households will benefit from the TFSA in a proportion that is 10 times higher than low-income households.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJean-DenisFréchetteJean-DenisFréchette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0935)[Translation]With respect to the TFSA, the gap is one to ten. In income splitting, there is an impact in terms of the increase of wealth.In the TFSA analysis document, you said the following. If we divide the incomes of the population into strata of 20%, the lower 20% will not benefit at all, whereas the higher 20% will benefit by 27%. Once again, we have a measure that promotes the concentration of wealth. At the same time, that will have an impact on the economy in general. Based on the OECD study, when wealth is concentrated, the economy does not do so well. Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJean-DenisFréchetteJean-DenisFréchette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0940)[Translation]We agree that it is more difficult for low-income people to save. It is more difficult for someone who makes $400 a week to set money aside than it is for someone who makes $4,000.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJean-DenisFréchetteJean-DenisFréchette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (0940)[Translation]That is certainly the case.I would like to come back to the impact of this measure on the provinces.You said that, in 2080, there would be a loss of tax revenue of $77 billion at the federal level and of $39 billion at the provincial level. I'm not sure whether that is before or after doubling the TFSA. Perhaps you can clarify that. For Quebec, my province of residence, this means several billion dollars that it will not be able to invest in education and health.Would it not have been a good idea to bring the provinces together to reflect on this measure? I know that it is a political question, but before initiating a measure that takes $39 billion from the revenue of the provinces, it seems to me that they should have been consulted.Thank you, Mr. Fréchette.Thank you, Mr. Chair.Jean-DenisFréchetteJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté (Beauport—Limoilou, NDP): (0945)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My thanks to all the witnesses for being here with us today.Ms. Donnelly and Mr. Young, in your very interesting article on the issue, you pointed out something that I already knew but that I'm certain will benefit everyone. Over 30 years ago, in 1982, Canadians' personal savings were at about 20%. Since 2000, this rate has systematically gone under 5%.Clearly, one of the arguments for the TFSA is to encourage people to save. However, just like Mr. Fréchette, you showed that, unfortunately, it is mostly a shift in savings. Clearly, the tax-free approach solves nothing at all. The problem seems to be elsewhere. Can you give us some idea of what we should do to promote savings? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsTax Free Savings AccountJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducAllister W.Young//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (0945)[Translation]In my view, the TFSA is a subsidy for a shift in savings. I'm not sure how you feel about my opinion on the matter. Am I correct?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsAllister W.YoungAllister W.Young//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (0950)[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Bonnett, in the brief that you submitted for the prebudget consultations, we see a very important and interesting recommendation. The federation recommends deeming siblings to be non-arm's length, specifically for farm corporations.My colleague Francine Raynault introduced Bill C-661 to address this recommendation and help brothers and sisters be properly recognized. Unfortunately, the Conservative government is against this measure. Could you comment on the government's position in that sense?Arms-length relationshipBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresC-661, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act (transfer of family farm or fishing corporation)Capital gains taxFarming and farmersGovernment billsTransfer of propertyAllister W.YoungRonBonnett//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg (Bourassa, Lib.): (1020)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to take this opportunity to greet all my parliamentary colleagues and our guests.I will briefly continue with the TFSA topic that my colleague addressed.We often hear in the House that the families making $60,000 have made a maximum contribution to a TFSA. Do you have any information on that and can you tell us how it is possible to state that families making $60,000 contributed a maximum amount to a TFSA?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsTax Free Savings AccountJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1025)[Translation]You are saying that 60% have an income under $60,000. However, is it true that, before the inception of the TFSA, those people perhaps had a number of years' worth of savings and, once the TFSA was set up, they all seized the opportunity if they had $6,000, $7,000, $8,000 or $10,000 in their bank accounts?Right now, can we expect families making $60,000 to still contribute the maximum amount, which is $10,000?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1025)[Translation]Okay, but I would like to point something out.People who have a gross income of $60,000 also do their income taxes. After paying their taxes, how many people can have $10,000 in savings for a TFSA?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1025)[Translation]Okay.MiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1025)[Translation]Thank you for this information.I don't think I have a lot of time left, but I would still like to address another issue very quickly.In terms of charitable organizations, the Income Tax Act uses the term “qualified donee”. Why have foreign charitable foundations been excluded from the definition of “qualified donee”?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCharitable donations and donorsCharitable organizationsForeign countriesGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1030)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Welcome, Mr. Jovanovic.I would like to talk about the RRIFs.We see that the minimum retirement rate will go from 7.38% to 5.28%. How was this 5.28% rate established? What foundations and indicators are we looking at?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsRegistered retirement income fundsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1030)[Translation]So you are anticipating a 5% rate of return?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1030)[Translation]What are you basing your rate of return on?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1030)[Translation]It is a very good thing that the new benefits for veterans are not taxable, but other incomes are taxables. What is the logic behind taxing some sources of income and not others? For instance, the earnings loss benefit and the permanent impairment allowance are taxable, but the two new allowances will not be taxable. What is the logic behind that? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsTaxationVeteransMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1030)[Translation]I have another question about the numbers you presented. I'm wondering about the child care benefit increasing from $1,200 to $1,920. What is that increase based on?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresChild care allowanceGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1030)[Translation]Was it calculated on the basis of day care needs? How many places in day cares will this measure create? Did you analyze the impact on day care places?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1030)[Translation]Okay. Excuse me, Mr. Chair.Were there discussions with your provincial counterparts on the medium- and long-term impact of TFSAs in terms of lost taxes? It has been said that, by 2080, the provinces will lose $39 billion. Did you discuss that with your provincial counterparts? Were there discussions between officials about that? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsProvinces, territories, statesPublic consultationTax Free Savings AccountJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1035)[Translation]How much will this cost in lost taxes?MiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1035)[Translation]Thank you.MiodragJovanovicJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1035)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I am going to continue to talk about the impact on the provinces.Did you do a prior assessment of the loss in revenue for the provinces and territories?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1035)[Translation]To go back to my colleague Pierre's question, were the provinces consulted before this measure was announced in order to assess the impact it might have on their revenues? Were there any consultations before the decision to increase the TFSA limit was made?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1035)[Translation]If I understand correctly, there were no formal consultations on the matter.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1035)[Translation]Okay.MiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1035)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.MiodragJovanovicJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1055)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I am going to go back to income splitting.Earlier, we talked about what was in the Conservatives' platform. I would like to know how many assessments you have done on income splitting. Was there one two years ago, for example, in order to inform the government about how much it might cost, or is that just done as the budget is being prepared? As we know, the way in which income splitting was introduced has changed.How many assessments has the Department of Finance conducted in support of this measure?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresDepartment of FinanceGovernment billsIncome splittingJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1055)[Translation]Okay. Thank you.Have you also assessed the impact of income splitting on men's and women's participation in the workforce? Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresEqual opportunitiesGovernment billsIncome splittingLabour forceMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1055)[Translation]I am sure you understand the crux of the question I am asking.If the spouses have more or less similar income, the measure provides them with no advantage. Is that not an incentive for one of the two spouses to work less, or simply stay home, in order to take advantage of what income splitting offers?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1055)[Translation]To wrap up, some experts are saying that only 15% of Canadian families will benefit from income splitting. Based on your analysis, can you confirm or deny that figure?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1100)[Translation]It has been said that this measure benefits couples most, especially when the difference between the two incomes is reasonably big. Is that the case?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1100)[Translation]So what counts is the gap between the two incomes.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1100)[Translation]You say that 40% of Canadians have no spouse. So that is saying that 40% of working Canadians have no way to access this possibility of paying less tax.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1100)[Translation]In other words, 40% of the population can't take advantage of this measure. Is that 40% an approximate figure?MiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1100)[Translation]Thank you.MiodragJovanovicJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1100)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My question is for all the witnesses.Are you authorized to use the term “income splitting”?JamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1100)[Translation]I would like to know whether you are authorized to use the term “income splitting”.MiodragJovanovicJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1100)[Translation]Mr. Chair, it's still important to mention it since the term is not used in the bill, which talks about “split adjustment” or “split-adjusted income”. Yesterday, during the meeting of the committee of the whole, the Minister of Finance carefully avoided using the term “income splitting”. In fact, he always used the term “family tax cut”.I still think it's important to know whether there is a directive within the department to avoid using the term “income splitting”.JamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35396RaymondCôtéRaymond-CôtéBeauport—LimoilouNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/CôtéRaymond_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Raymond Côté: (1100)[Translation]Very well. That's fine. Thank you.JamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1115)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Good morning, everyone.I would like to start with the federal balanced budget act.When we legislate, there are often negative effects. Have you provided for the possibility that, in a given year, there might be a deficit of $1 billion, while measures have been taken and the debt continues to decrease? Have you looked at a certain number of elements in that regard? When there is a deficit situation, should we consider it a bad thing and automatically adopt drastic measures? For example, the government might be tempted to sell assets to absolutely balance the budget. What is your opinion on that?Balanced budgetBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducBradRecker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1115)[Translation]In short, you are admitting that there should still be some flexibility with the economic situation. It is true that there may be a deficit, due to a recession or some other reason, but there should be some flexibility to look at other economic indicators rather than only at a few years of deficit.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsBradReckerBradRecker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1120)[Translation]Okay.Should this bill set parameters regarding the number of years that should pass before coming back to a balanced budget? What suggestions do you have?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsBradReckerBradRecker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1120)[Translation]Okay.BradReckerJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1125)[Translation]I want to go back to division 7, which amends the Canada Labour Code.It contains three new articles relating to interns. I don't see why there should be three new articles when we could simply broaden the provisions of part III to protect anyone carrying out activities for federal employers. Why not simply broaden the existing provisions?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsInternshipsLabour codeLegislationJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducCharles-PhilippeRochon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1125)[Translation]Thank you.I would like to talk about the federal balanced budget act.In the case of a projected deficit or in an exceptional situation, government employees' salaries are frozen. But who decides when this exceptional situation is over? What criteria or what figures would lead the government to decide that the exceptional situation that required the salaries of those people to be frozen has ended?Balanced budgetBudget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsCharles-PhilippeRochonBradRecker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1125)[Translation]I see that over time, in other governments, at the provincial or other levels, the balanced budget legislation is more or less followed in the end. A situation can always be described as exceptional in order to apply the legislation or not.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsBradReckerBradRecker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1125)[Translation]Provincial legislation has often been amended and repealed. Do you agree with me on that?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsBradReckerBradRecker//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71522PierreDionne LabellePierre-DionneLabelleRivière-du-NordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DionneLabellePierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Dionne Labelle: (1125)[English]That's true. Okay.BradReckerJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1145)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will be very brief.Ms. Champagne, in terms of sick leave, I would like to know whether a legal opinion was presented with regard to the constitutionality of the proposed measures.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresCollective bargainingGovernment billsLegislationPublic Service and public servantsSick leaveJamesRajotteEdmonton—LeducJenniferChampagne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1145)[Translation]Okay.Can these opinions be made public so that they are available for—Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJenniferChampagneJenniferChampagne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1145)[Translation]Okay.But you must surely be aware that previous governments have shared information they obtained.Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresGovernment billsJenniferChampagneJenniferChampagne//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1145)[Translation]I understand.Mr. Chair, I would like to ask a brief question about the long-gun registry.Mr. Potter, this is a topic we've heard a lot about. Much has been written about it. My question is perhaps more of a moral one. You may say that I am on the wrong track, but in your position, don't you sometimes advise the government or provide your personal opinion on a given situation? In this case, did you consider making a recommendation to the government about destroying data, even though my colleague, Mr. Saxton, said that measures in this regard had been passed in the House?Budget 2015 (April 21, 2015)C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresDocument shredding and destructionFirearms registryGovernment billsLegislationJenniferChampagneMarkPotter//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/84660EmmanuelDubourgEmmanuel-DubourgBourassaLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/DubourgEmmanuel_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Emmanuel Dubourg: (1145)[English]Thank you.MarkPotterJamesRajotteEdmonton—Leduc//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette (Drummond, NDP): (0940)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My thanks to the minister and her officials for being here to testify.I would like to go back to Ms. Ambler's information about contaminated sites. This is an important matter. Canada has a huge number of contaminated sites. Even if we have started to clean them up, there are still far too many. Reports have been produced recently to show the scope of the work that will have to be done in the coming years. But the budget for cleaning up contaminated sites has been reduced. Do I understand that correctly? Contaminated sitesMain estimates 2015-2016HaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaLeonaAglukkaqHon.Nunavut//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0940)[Translation]Madam Minister, I am going to go back to climate change. You sent a letter to provincial ministers. The provincial ministers were very shocked, certainly in Quebec, to simply get a letter asking for their targets. They were flabbergasted by your approach, that you called “cooperative”. For them, it was not cooperative in nature at all. The targets do not seem to be coordinated with the efforts made by the provinces. It has been shown on a number of occasions that all the effort is coming from the provinces.In your main estimates, under the heading of climate change and clean air, there is a cut of 26%. Recently, you established the targets for 2030. How do you anticipate reaching your objectives with cuts of that size? Greenhouse gasesMain estimates 2015-2016LeonaAglukkaqHon.NunavutLeonaAglukkaqHon.Nunavut//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0945)[Translation]Madam Minister, I was mostly referring to the approach taken. You simply sent a letter asking the provincial ministers to hurry up and send you their targets. That is what they did not appreciate.Contaminated sitesMain estimates 2015-2016LeonaAglukkaqHon.NunavutLeonaAglukkaqHon.Nunavut//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1025)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to go back to the Species at Risk Act. Chapter 6 of the 2013 report says:For the 146 instances where a recovery strategy was required but not yet in place, we looked to see the extent to which they were overdue. We found that 79% of these strategies were overdue by more than three years.Has there been an improvement in that 79% of the programs that were overdue by more than three years? That is a huge number. If so, can you send the numbers to the committee?Endangered speciesMain estimates 2015-2016HaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaMichaelMartin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1025)[Translation]Fine, Mr. Martin, but has there been an improvement or not?Endangered speciesMain estimates 2015-2016MichaelMartinMichaelMartin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (1025)[Translation]Thank you.I ask the question because there are more and more problems with the Species at Risk Act. There are more and more cases before the Superior Court. I am thinking about the sage grouse, for example. I do not know what has happened, but the legislation has been so badly enforced that some petitions to the House of Commons are asking for the emergency order to be rescinded and a more voluntary approach. There seems to be a lack of consultation with local people.We also have a problem in Quebec with the striped chorus frog. Once again, the matter is in Superior Court. The Centre québécois du droit de l'environnement has made an application to the Superior Court. It looks like there is a problem with enforcing the Species at Risk Act, with the result that people often have to go the Superior Court.Endangered speciesMain estimates 2015-2016MichaelMartinMichaelMartin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe (Pierrefonds—Dollard, NDP): (0815)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you, Minister, for being with us this morning.Minister, your opening remarks focused on certain categories of immigration that are beneficial to our country's economy, and that is very important. However, I would like to talk about a category you did not mention this morning, and which is in my opinion as beneficial to Canadian society and our economy in a certain way. I am talking about family reunification.I would like to know precisely what there is in the current main estimates to improve family reunification application processing times, in all categories.BacklogsDepartment of Citizenship and ImmigrationFamily reunificationMain estimates 2015-2016Work permitsDavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonChrisAlexanderHon.Ajax—Pickering//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0820)[Translation]Thank you.That is indeed an essential immigration category. However, if it were a priority it seems to me that the budget that is being presented to us today would have allocated funds to it. The good intentions have to be accompanied by resources.You referred to the parents and grandparents program. There have been a great many discussions to determine whether this is really a success or not. A lot of people who are not included in the figures cannot even apply. But we can set that issue aside since in my opinion it is not central to today's debate.As opposed to what you seem to be saying, the 2015-2016 report on plans and priorities indicates a drop of 12 million dollars in budgets and staff. In addition, that decline is going to continue in the years to come. When we recognize that on the one hand there is a... Department of Citizenship and ImmigrationFamily reunificationGovernment expendituresMain estimates 2015-2016ChrisAlexanderHon.Ajax—PickeringChrisAlexanderHon.Ajax—Pickering//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0820)[Translation]I'm talking about the family reunification category. Department of Citizenship and ImmigrationMain estimates 2015-2016ChrisAlexanderHon.Ajax—PickeringChrisAlexanderHon.Ajax—Pickering//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0820)[Translation]Whether we are talking about spouses, children, parents or grandparents, the situation is concerning because some people wait for a very long time. For instance, the time required for processing sponsorship applications for the spouses of Canadian residents has gone from a few months to more than two years. However, you say that your objective is to see to it that these waiting periods do not increase further. I think the objective should be to reduce these processing times rather than maintain them. Not only do the estimates we are studying today contain nothing on this, but the 2015-2016 report on plans and priorities indicates a further decline in the budgets.I think that my colleague Mr. Sandhu has more questions to ask on the family reunification categories, and so I am going to yield the floor to him.Department of Citizenship and ImmigrationFamily reunificationGovernment expendituresMain estimates 2015-2016ChrisAlexanderHon.Ajax—PickeringDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0840)[English]Thank you.I wanted to make sure that my colleague doesn't lose any time. If we can we allow her to start her question when the minister has his earpiece in, it would be very much appreciated.DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonChrisAlexanderHon.Ajax—Pickering//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0855)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to ask a brief question about the processing of citizenship files.Earlier, you spoke about your Bill C-24, which concerns reforms to citizenship among other things. When you presented your citizenship reform measures, you said that this would lead to considerable reductions in the time needed to process files, and that was about a year ago. Now we are in mid-2015. Last year, the average processing time for routine files was 25 months and for non-routine files, that time was 35 months. This year the time frames are 23 and 36 months respectively.Is this reduction of approximately two months in processing times the significant reduction you had promised us? May we expect more improvement in that regard? How do you explain that after one year, things are still stagnant in this area? Do you find it acceptable that it still takes two to three years to process these applications? Do you intend to reduce the wait times further? What more are you going to do to keep your promise? BacklogsC-24, An Act to amend the Citizenship Act and to make consequential amendments to other ActsDepartment of Citizenship and ImmigrationMain estimates 2015-2016DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonChrisAlexanderHon.Ajax—Pickering//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0855)[Translation]When we consult the Internet...ChrisAlexanderHon.Ajax—PickeringDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0910)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I thank the witnesses for staying one hour longer with us. We are very grateful for that.I have another question about the processing times for citizenship applications.I am not sure I understood everything the minister said, nor do I think we have all of the statistics. On the Citizenship and Immigration Canada website, can we find the processing times for routine files, and for more complex ones? Can you tell me whether these routine files are regular applications with no particular complications? Can you confirm to me that the cases on the website are what are known as routine files?Application processBacklogsDepartment of Citizenship and ImmigrationMain estimates 2015-2016DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonAnitaBiguzs//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0915)[Translation]That answers my question. I do not need further details. That is what I thought.Perhaps Mr. Orr can tell me whether, according to what I saw on the CIC website today, the routine files are processed on the average in 23 months. Is that correct and do I understand the situation clearly? How can the minister talk to us about 12-month processing times if the department's website cites 23 months? Could you please enlighten me?Application processBacklogsDepartment of Citizenship and ImmigrationMain estimates 2015-2016Web sitesAnitaBiguzsRobertOrr//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0915)[Translation]Thank you.I know that you do very rigorous work and that we will probably see a decrease in application processing times soon. However, according to what we see on the website, the current processing time is still officially 23 months for routine files.Application processBacklogsDepartment of Citizenship and ImmigrationMain estimates 2015-2016Web sitesRobertOrrRobertOrr//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0915)[Translation]Thank you. I wish you success in that regard.I will tell the people I represent that it is normal for their files to be processed in 23 or 36 months. There are several people whose files are still being processed. I wish you success in this endeavour. I hope we will be able to quickly allow people to benefit from better results.I also have questions about family reunification delays, more specifically for children and spouses.Can you tell me in what offices and in which countries it takes the longest to process applications? I think that the Islamabad office is one of the offices that has the longest waits for the processing of family reunification files. If you cannot tell me now, could you send the information to the committee? Where are the processing times the longest for family reunification files?BacklogsDepartment of Citizenship and ImmigrationFamily reunificationMain estimates 2015-2016AnitaBiguzsRobertOrr//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0920)[Translation]Thank you very much.I have a brief question about the foreign investor program applications.Thousands of files were returned to the applicants. I was wondering if anyone had sued the government because of such practices. If so, how much has this type of measure cost, approximately? There were some people who were very unhappy that their applications were returned to them.Department of Citizenship and ImmigrationFederal Skilled Worker ProgramImmigrant Investor ProgramLawsuitsMain estimates 2015-2016DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonAnitaBiguzs//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71490LysaneBlanchette-LamotheLysane-Blanchette-LamothePierrefonds—DollardNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BlanchetteLamotheLysane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Lysane Blanchette-Lamothe: (0935)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I would like to go back to a decision you took earlier in the course of our work, concerning the rights and privileges of the members who sit on this committee.You asked the members to give the witnesses time to answer their questions. Do the members have the right to ask witnesses to answer their questions in a direct manner? My colleague's question, even if it was preceded by a few examples, aimed to find out specifically whether the quota is frequently reached in the first few days. The witness could have answered that question in a mere few seconds.We are trying to respect your request that we give the witnesses a chance to answer our questions. However, may we ask witnesses to answer more directly so that we have an effective exchange and obtain replies to our questions in the five-minute period?Department of Citizenship and ImmigrationMain estimates 2015-2016DavidTilsonDufferin—CaledonDavidTilsonDufferin—Caledon//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris (St. John's East, NDP): (1535)[English]Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.The committee will recall that at our last public meeting, on May 13, the minister agreed that he would come to this committee to discuss the matter of this report along with Madame Deschamps and Major-General Whitecross. A motion was formally passed at that time:That the Standing Committee on National Defence invite the Minister of National Defence, the Chief of the Defence Staff, retired Supreme Court Justice Marie Deschamps and MGen Christine Whitecross as witnesses to appear before the Committee to answer questions about Justice Deschamps' external investigation of sexual misconduct in the military, and the Canadian Armed Forces' response thereto, for two hours, as soon as possible. We have met the last condition regarding “as soon as possible”, and we're very grateful for the attendance of Madame Deschamps and Major-General Whitecross, but the principal responsibility for the military rests with both the Minister of National Defence and the Chief of the Defence Staff. They are not here. They are the ones with the ultimate authority in these matters. We think those two individuals not being here demonstrates a lack of leadership. I wonder why it is, Mr. Chair, they're not here. The Minister of National Defence said he would be here if he wasn't out of the country. He's still in the country. He was at question period today.Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1600)[English]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Madame Deschamps and Major-General Whitecross, for joining us.First, Madame Deschamps, I want to thank you for your report and your very thorough investigation. You have reported an alarming story of the situation in the military, confirming what was made public in 1998 by Maclean's and by L'actualité in 2014. One of the fundamental concerns shows that there's a fundamental lack of trust in the military justice system and in the military police's ability to deal with it, so much so that, as you report, the overwhelming majority of victims do not report incidents, so we really don't have a full handle on the extent of the problem.One of the concerns I have, and which we even see in the name of the report, which is referred to as a report on sexual misconduct and sexual harassment, is that we're using various terms and definitions, as you point out. Of course, sexual assault is a criminal act and in the civilian criminal system is prosecuted as such. There seems to be a more amorphous treatment of criminal behaviour in the military, perhaps based on some of the definitions that we have. Can you tell us, first of all, why it is that in the military the military police officers have the ability and discretion to not lay a charge, or if they want to lay a charge, why they have to have the consent of the chain of command? Why don't I see anything where this might change?Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesMilitary justice systemSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillMarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1600)[English]As you point out, we see a culture of negative attitudes towards women, and apparently a culture of impunity for perpetrators of sexual assault. At the same time, victims themselves have large consequences, often resulting in their being expelled from the military, or first of all not being taken seriously, treated as troublemakers, and all of that.I want to ask both of you a question on the timeliness of responses. We've talked about changing culture; that's not an overnight thing. You talk about new procedures, and now Major-General Whitecross is going to survey best practices around the world. How much time should elapse before a parent of a young person in Canada can have confidence in saying they would be happy to have their daughter or their son join the military knowing that they would be protected and not subjected to the kind of harassment or sexual assault...? “Sexual misconduct” or “inappropriate sexual behaviour” seem to me to be a bit too amorphous. We're talking about criminal acts in the case of sexual assault, and obviously sexual harassment is bad as well.How fast should this be done? Is there anything in the meantime that can say to someone who is in the military that they're not going to have to wait for the culture to change, and if they want their sexual assault charge taken to the civilian courts or to the civilian police, they can do it right away?Canadian ForcesCivil justice systemDenunciationExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentVictimsMarieDeschampsHon.ChristineWhitecross//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1605)[English] But we do have a serious and ongoing problem. We heard a story last week about a sexual harassment prevention officer attending the Royal Military College and herself being, in her own words, harassed by the cadets who were there who clearly didn't understand, or perhaps didn't know anything about, the notion of sexual harassment or the kinds of things that were being described.I need to be able to say, and I think Canadians want to know, is it still, is it yet, safe for women in the military? I have to conclude, based on this report, that this is not the case.How are you and your CDS and the minister—I know they're not here, but they were invited—going to be able to assure people that their sons or daughters and those already serving will be safe from criminal acts and harassment, and that complaints will be taken seriously? I don't need to read all of what Madam Justice Deschamps wrote. I mean, it's pretty clear that the reason things aren't reported, they're not taken seriously, they don't do a proper investigation.... The military police don't even know what “consent” is in many cases. We have a very serious problem from bottom to top. Is there a crisis recognized? I think you said there's no consensus on how serious this is, but I think the alarm bells are going off in a lot of people's minds.Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesMilitary justice systemSexual harassmentChristineWhitecrossPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1605)[English]No, I'm asking for her opinion on this serious problem.Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentJamesBezanSelkirk—InterlakeJamesBezanSelkirk—Interlake//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud (Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, NDP): (1625)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I thank the two witnesses for their presentations and for the particularly important work they have done on this issue.I am from a military family, and in fact my parents are still serving in the armed forces. Thus I feel the work you do is particularly important.I would like to put a brief question to Ms. Deschamps.As was mentioned, last February you submitted a preliminary version of your report to General Lawson. Can you tell us whether the report contained the 10 recommendations that are to be found in the final version of your report?Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillMarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1630)[Translation]So General Lawson had your report, basically, and your recommendations, in February when he drafted his memo.Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentMarieDeschampsHon.MarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1630)[Translation]Thank you very much for that comment.Ms. Deschamps, you said that not examining the military justice system did not necessarily hinder your capacity to examine the issue of sexual harassment and sexual misconduct in the forces.Do you think that that exclusion could have an adverse effect on the positive repercussions a change in the culture of the forces could bring, or on the creation of an independent centre? Do you think the fact that that dimension is not being looked at could be an obstacle to the improvement of the situation in the armed forces?Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesInquiries and public inquiriesMilitary justice systemSexual harassmentMarieDeschampsHon.MarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1630)[Translation]I understand what you are saying very well.In the beginning of your presentation, you also said you did not view your mandate as including giving the details of the structure this ideal independent centre should take. However, I would imagine that you may have a few ideas and suggestions to make on that. Could you tell us what you feel the essential elements of an independent centre would be?Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentThird party managementMarieDeschampsHon.MarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1630)[Translation]Thank you very much. Major-General Whitecross, since 2013, the targets for the recruitment of women in the Canadian Forces have been considerably reduced because they were considered unattainable. We now have this report, the conclusions of which are quite difficult to read, concerning the situation in the Canadian Forces.In light of the conclusions of the report, how will the Canadian armed forces be able to reach targets for the recruitment of women? Is looking at that a part of your mandate?Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesMilitary recruitmentSexual harassmentWomenMarieDeschampsHon.ChristineWhitecross//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1640)[English]Madame Deschamps, perhaps you could help me with this. You would have learned a lot about military culture. One of things you would have learned about, of course, is the chain of command and how important that is to the military leadership, but also to those at the very bottom. Part of that culture is that you don't go outside the chain of command with your complaints. You deal with them inside. Yet, as you report, the vast majority of interviewees who did take the step of discussing their complaint—most did not—with their supervisor, the complaint was not taken seriously. Responses ranged from warning the complainant about the negative consequence to their careers if they continued with the complaint, to openly disbelieving the victim. Ironically, warning about the negative consequences to their career may be fairly accurate, given the experience of a lot of the people who have reported publicly on their experience. I agree with you that a centre fully independent of the chain of command needs to exist. How does a person who wants to complain—and I think you mentioned it in your opening remarks—get help without triggering a formal complaint and without triggering negative consequences for their career or life? Can you help me with this? If you go to the independent board or centre to make your complaint and say you just need help, that you're not going to make a complaint because you know you might get kicked out of the military, how does that give justice where what you really want is to be able to pursue a complaint and have a guarantee that you're not going to be victimized and kicked out of the military, your career stopped, or you're going to be treated with disdain by your fellow soldiers, or by the chain of command around you? How does that work?Canadian ForcesDenunciationExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentThird party managementVictimsPeterKentHon.ThornhillMarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1640)[English]You could say that you just want to get help for what happened, that you don't want to get anyone else involved.Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentMarieDeschampsHon.MarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1640)[English]You want a place for that.Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentMarieDeschampsHon.MarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1640)[English] I think you say in your report that most sexual assault charges within the military are actually charged not as sexual assaults, but as “conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline”, and you can't even see from the statistics what the actual charge is. Is this something that should change? That's my number one question. I think I'm running out of time so—Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentMarieDeschampsHon.PeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1640)[English] —I'll put in another question to give you some time to answer it. Do you believe there should be an absolute right of the victim of a sexual assault—and I'm not talking about harassment here, because that may be a different matter—to have a case pursued in a civilian court without repercussions from the chain of command or to their career?I know you've said that this exists in France, and in Australia most cases go to a civilian court. You seem to indicate in your report that ultimately the chain of command gets to decide whether you can go to civil court or not. Do you think there should be an absolute right for a victim to go outside of the military without repercussions and have the case dealt with in civil court?Canadian ForcesCivil justice systemExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillMarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1640)[English]They can decide.Canadian ForcesCivil justice systemExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentMarieDeschampsHon.MarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1655)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Major-General Whitecross, I would like to ask you a few questions.Can you give us a few more details on how you chose the people who make up your multidisciplinary team? What are their particular skills? Are some of them from the social services field? Did you ensure that these people be very representative of the population that is most affected by issues of sexual harassment and sexual misconduct in the Canadian Forces?Canadian Armed Forces Strategic Response Team on Sexual MisconductCanadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillChristineWhitecross//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1655)[Translation]Thank you.About how many women are a part of your committee? Canadian Armed Forces Strategic Response Team on Sexual MisconductCanadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentWomenChristineWhitecrossChristineWhitecross//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1655)[Translation]Thank you.There has been a lot of talk about women victimized by sexual harassment and sexual misconduct in the Canadian Forces, and talking about that is important. However, members of the LGBT community are also victims of sexual harassment or misconduct in the Canadian Forces.Do you think it would be necessary to devise a particular strategy to help the LGBT community, or do you think a general strategy will be sufficient? The question is addressed both to Ms. Deschamps and Major-General Whitecross.Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentChristineWhitecrossChristineWhitecross//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1655)[Translation] Ms. Deschamps, did you want to add something on that or do you think the answer is complete?Canadian ForcesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentChristineWhitecrossMarieDeschampsHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1700)[Translation]Thank you very much.Major-General Whitecross, you are in the process of determining how best to assess the success of what is going to be put in place by the Canadian Forces. However, we have very little information on cases that have been settled via a summary process. The sanctions imposed were in fact in connection with other types of offences.Have you begun to think about ways to compensate for the lack of prior information that may make progress difficult?Canadian ForcesData banks and databasesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentMarieDeschampsHon.ChristineWhitecross//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1700)[Translation]But we must focus on the situation in Canada. It is difficult to have an overall perspective when the statistics on this type of incident, which occurs frequently in the Canadian Forces, are not clear.Have you thought of a way to obtain conclusive data on the current situation?Canadian ForcesData banks and databasesExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesSexual harassmentChristineWhitecrossChristineWhitecross//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère (Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, NDP): (1600)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I thank the witnesses for having come here to meet with us.Mr. Marsland, on page 1 of the report you say something very important about tax exemptions, reports, deductions and credits. The purpose of all of these tax expenditures is quite well-defined in the report entitledTax Expenditures and Evaluations 2013 and what it says on flow-through shares.I read and analyzed that document. I would like to draw your attention to page 51, where it says that the $1.4 billion yearly amount generated by these activities particularly benefits the high-income people who invest in flow-through shares.Regarding that measure overall, not only do you not say whether this $1.4 billion amount could be financed in some other way than through flow-through shares—your report does not talk about that—but you say that the rich are the ones who mostly benefit from that tax deduction, which poses a problem.I have a question on this. Tax measures have as their objective the reduction, so to speak, of wealth inequality. With these measures, the opposite is being achieved. And that is in fact noted on page 1 of the document provided by the Parliamentary Budget Officer who says this: “Over time, as inequality has increased, and as various tax and transfers have been added or removed, their impact on inequality has also changed.”We have noted that since 1980—with a peak in 1991 and another in 2000— financial iniquity has only increased and continues to grow. Why do you not intervene to improve that situation rather than making it worse through your decisions?Income distributionOperational reviewsReport 3, Tax-Based Expenditures, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaTax expendituresDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreAndrewMarsland//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1605)[Translation]If the objective is that important, explain one thing to me.In theory, Registered Education Savings Plans were supposed to increase the number of university students. However, Canada Revenue Agency studies indicate that this is a total flop, that the plan has not increased the number of students in our universities, and that the people who benefit from it would in any case have paid for their children's higher education. However, this measure is renewed year after year, to the point where the objective of increasing the number of university students has been totally lost. It is simply a legal tax avoidance measure.If the objective has absolutely not been reached according to your own analyses, why are you maintaining a measure that in fact increases financial iniquity?Operational reviewsRegistered education savings plansReport 3, Tax-Based Expenditures, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaSchool attendanceTax expendituresAndrewMarslandDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1610)[English]Okay.DavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1650)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I hope the witnesses are not too surprised by my questions. In any case, I think that they will be able to answer them quite easily.In point 3.58, it says that the issue also represents a global vision. There is a paradox here; we saw what Professor Léo-Paul Lauzon said. I hope you are familiar with his research work on this. He says that gradually, we are seeing the richest 5% of the population not have to pay any income tax whatsoever. A large proportion of these highest-income people manage from one year to the next not to pay any income tax, or to pay very little.The question we must ask ourselves is the following: Is what you are doing to the Canadian tax system, overall, not going to result in a situation where our grandchildren are going to have to pay for the tax credits we have at this time? The problem is serious, and we note that tax expenditures increase constantly. These tax expenditures systematically favour the richest group of the Canadian population. We don't want our grandchildren to have to pay our bills. As point 3.58 indicates, there is a some kind of flaw in the overall analysis.Please do not all answer at the same time.Income distributionOperational reviewsReport 3, Tax-Based Expenditures, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaTax expendituresDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1650)[Translation]Nevertheless, we still have the same problem.As for the 3% you refer to, the richest Canadians, we see that the gap between their growing wealth and their taxable income continues to grow. In fact, those people are not taxed on the increase in their wealth but only on a fraction of it. You say that they pay a lot of tax. They do pay a good part of Canadian income tax, but the question is, do they pay their fair share? You say that they are in a 29% tax bracket, but the issue is that very few of these people pay 29% on the increase in their wealth. They only pay that on a fraction of their taxable income. Which brings us back to the conclusion of the Carter Commission, which was that Canadians are not taxed fairly.Income distributionOperational reviewsReport 3, Tax-Based Expenditures, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaTax expendituresMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1655)[Translation]From time to time we need this information in order to make a decision.If income tax should help us to reduce inequality, and if you are not able to inform us on how to reduce it, how can we adopt legislation to make things progress? In fact, these questions have been raised by the Parliamentary Budget Officer. We need this information.Income distributionOperational reviewsReport 3, Tax-Based Expenditures, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaTax expendituresMiodragJovanovicMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1655)[Translation]Mr. Chair, you understand the problem we have.If the witnesses cannot answer these questions, how can we correct a situation we feel is unacceptable, through legislation?Still on this topic, I will refer to Mr. Marsland's opening statement. He stated that in 2014, there were 364 pages of legal, tax and financial legislation. For the majority of Canadians, the Income Tax Act is a madly complex legal document. I'm referring to the report of the Ordre des comptables professionnels agréés du Québec, the Quebec CPA Order. Their report stated that the Income Tax Act had become an Aladdin's cave in which people get lost. Here again, the officials from the department are worsening the problem. They are increasing the size of the Income Tax Act rather than simplifying it.Here is the best example I can give. All we have to do is look at page 17 of the document on tax expenditures and evaluations published in 2013, regarding the tax credits for disabled persons. Still today, many members have to inform disabled persons regarding the definition of a disabled person and the rights they have. It is all well and good to have a law—and I echo Mr. Albas' statements on this—but it has to be accessible to the vast majority of Canadians. Canadians have to know that this is accessible and they have to know how to access these credits. Once again, in all of these documents that were submitted and in all of the report, there is a problem. The whole issue is the accessibility of tax deductions or credits in this maze of tax legislation.Disability tax creditOperational reviewsReport 3, Tax-Based Expenditures, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaTax expendituresMiodragJovanovicDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1700)[Translation]Since it is 5 p.m. and the room is available until 5:30 p.m., I would have liked to ask a question and I would have liked all of the members to allow one of our witnesses to answer it.The question concerns the issues posed by the complexity of the act. And in fact, it only gets more and more complex. I think it would be useful to ask ourselves whether there could be some solutions that could be brought to the table.Operational reviewsReport 3, Tax-Based Expenditures, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaTax expendituresDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1700)[Translation]I don't want to force my colleagues to listen to endless discussions. However, I did ask a question and unfortunately because it took me too long to formulate it...Extension of debateOperational reviewsReport 3, Tax-Based Expenditures, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaTax expendituresDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1700)[English]Yes.Extension of debateOperational reviewsReport 3, Tax-Based Expenditures, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaTax expendituresDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1700)[Translation]Yes.Extension of debateOperational reviewsReport 3, Tax-Based Expenditures, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaTax expendituresDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71447PierreNantelPierre-NantelLongueuil—Pierre-BoucherNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/NantelPierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Nantel (Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, NDP): (1600)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.First, I would like to thank Ms. Molnar, Ms. Maboungou, Ms. Bissonnette and Mr. Laurent.Ms. Bissonnette, I must say that it is a privilege to meet you. Honestly, I'm very honoured to have the chance to be in the same room as you. I am familiar with all the grace you showed on stages around the world. I believe that is an expression you used. You said that we need to let our dancers bring that grace.As a representative of the only francophone institution in North America, how popular do you think it is with young artists? Do you have the feeling that it is thriving? My sister was in the Grands Ballets canadiens with Ms. Chiriaeff at the time, and my two daughters studied with Véronique Landory, outside Montreal. We are going to address the financial aspect, but I would first like to know if ballet is still popular.BalletDanceEducation and trainingGordonBrownLeeds—GrenvilleAnikBissonnette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71447PierreNantelPierre-NantelLongueuil—Pierre-BoucherNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/NantelPierre_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Pierre Nantel: (1600)[Translation]You were one of the recipients of a Governor General's award in 2014, along with Louise Lecavalier. The Canada Council of the Arts gives out these awards through the Governor General.Do you have the feeling that there is a lack of recognition by the Department of Canadian Heritage of these institutions and associations? Beyond the artist and creator on the stage, there are associations and schools, as well. Do you have the feeling that there is an inconsistency here? You spoke about your funding. You lost—DanceDepartment of Canadian HeritageEducation and trainingFrenchGovernment assistanceAnikBissonnetteAnikBissonnette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion (Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, Lib.): (1605)[English] Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, Monsieur Laurent, Madame Bissonnette, Madam Maboungou, and Madam Molnar. Thank you so much for being with us.In our eight minutes can we discuss the way in which the federal government may be a better partner for you? Is there something we should improve?[Translation]Ms. Bissonnette, you talked about apprentices.Is that an area we can have an impact on?Is there anything we can do to help you, as far as apprentices are concerned?ApprenticeshipsDanceGovernment assistanceGordonBrownLeeds—GrenvilleAnikBissonnette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[Translation]What should we do exactly?DanceAnikBissonnetteAnikBissonnette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[Translation]Are you referring to federal or provincial assistance?DanceAnikBissonnetteAnikBissonnette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[English] Madam Molnar, do you have a comment on that?DanceAnikBissonnetteEmilyMolnar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[English]Is it your sense that it should be provincial? Or do you care whether it's provincial or federal as long as it's done?ApprenticeshipsDanceFederal-provincial-territorial relationsGovernment assistanceEmilyMolnarEmilyMolnar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[English]Why can they not?ApprenticeshipsDanceFinancingEmilyMolnarEmilyMolnar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[English]Okay. You mentioned also that the temporary foreign worker program used to be an open bar, and now it's very difficult to access. What should be the right balance?DanceTemporary Foreign Worker ProgramEmilyMolnarEmilyMolnar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[English]Thank you.[Translation]I'd like to discuss an issue that concerns me, injuries. Being a dancer is wonderful, but it does have risks. Dancers are athletes. We often hear it said that dancing is a very tough profession and that many dancers put themselves at risk by dancing, even when injured, so as not to lose an opportunity to make a bit of money, practice their art and be seen by audiences.In Quebec, the CSST provides some coverage, but is it enough? In other words, do dancers have adequate coverage in Quebec?DanceEducation and trainingInjuriesProvince of QuebecWorkplace health and safetyEmilyMolnarAnikBissonnette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1615)[English]In British Columbia, what kind of protection do you have when injuries happen?Madam Molnar, can you hear me?British ColumbiaDanceInjuriesWorkplace health and safetyAnikBissonnetteEmilyMolnar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1615)[English]I was speaking about injuries and the fact that in Quebec this is partly protected by the provincial government. Is that the case in British Columbia or not at all?British ColumbiaDanceEducation and trainingHealthWorkplace health and safetyEmilyMolnarEmilyMolnar//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1615)[Translation]In other words, you don't have any recommendations for the federal government in that area.DanceEmilyMolnarZabMaboungou//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1715)[English]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you very much to the three of you, mesdames, for being with us. You address the issue of the support that you receive from the arts councils, the Canada Council. Is it only a matter of money, that you want more money, or is it the way the programs are designed that must be improved? The three of you may answer, if one of you will volunteer to start.Madame Pada, you were the first one to mention the issue of the arts council. Do you want to start, Madame Pada?Application processBudget cutsCanada Council for the ArtsDanceInternational arts toursGordonBrownLeeds—GrenvilleLataPada//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1715)[English]Madame Grenier, did you want to intervene on the Canada Council issue?DanceLataPadaMargaretGrenier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1715)[English]Thank you very much.Madam Sundstrom, what are your comments on the same topic?MargaretGrenierKathiSundstrom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English]Good.Madam Sundstrom, you were the one, if I'm not wrong, who mentioned the issue of the preparations for the 150th anniversary of Confederation. Can I ask if you received a clear sense of what you need to do to be part of these celebrations? Do you need to prepare? Do you have the sense that government, or the minister, gave to the arts community of Canada a direction about how you may be involved?150th Anniversary of Canadian ConfederationBuilding Canada FundDanceGovernment assistanceKathiSundstromKathiSundstrom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English]Would you say that it's not a problem because 2017 is a long way from now? Or, do you think you need some leeway or some time to prepare yourself appropriately?150th Anniversary of Canadian ConfederationDanceKathiSundstromKathiSundstrom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English]May I ask Madam Grenier to intervene on that? Do you feel that you're involved in the preparations for the 150th anniversary of Confederation?150th Anniversary of Canadian ConfederationDanceKathiSundstromMargaretGrenier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English]Thank you.Madam Pada, would you like to intervene on the same topic?MargaretGrenierLataPada//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English] Thank you.How much time do I have left now?LataPadaGordonBrownLeeds—Grenville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English]Which one of you three would like to respond? Okay, I will choose because otherwise you will take time on it. Madam Sundstrom, with regard to the temporary worker program, what would be the right balance between having that program too open, to the point that some abuse may happen, and too cumbersome to the point that you cannot bring in people that you need?BureaucracyDanceForeign workersMenTemporary Foreign Worker ProgramGordonBrownLeeds—GrenvilleKathiSundstrom//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair (Mr. Pierre-Luc Dusseault (Sherbrooke, NDP)): (1525)[Translation]Good afternoon everyone. Welcome to the 37th meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics.As per the agenda, we have some distinguished guests with us for the first hour of our meeting, Mary Dawson, Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, as well as two of her directors, Ms. Robinson-Dalpé and Ms. Benoit. Ms. Dawson will have 10 minutes for her presentation on the main estimates.Following that, the Information Commissioner of Canada, Ms. Legault, will also have 10 minutes for her presentation on the main estimates. Committee members will have until 4:30 p.m. to ask them both questions. That's the plan for our first hour.I'd like to thank the witnesses for appearing before the committee today and giving us their time.And now, without further ado, I will hand the floor over to Ms. Dawson for a maximum of 10 minutes.Main estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingOffice of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerOffice of the Information Commissioner of CanadaOffice of the Privacy Commissioner of CanadaSenate Ethics OfficerMaryDawson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[Translation]Commissioner, thank you for your presentation.And with that, I will turn the floor over to Ms. Legault, Information Commissioner of Canada, for a maximum of 10 minutes.Ms. Legault, thank you for joining us today. You may go ahead.MaryDawsonSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1540)[Translation]Commissioner, thank you for your presentation.I will now turn the floor over to committee members, who will, no doubt, appreciate the opportunity to ask you questions until 4:30 p.m.Mr. Martin, you have seven minutes.SuzanneLegaultPatMartinWinnipeg Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1550)[English]Thank you, Madame Legault.Now I'll give the floor to Madame Davidson for seven minutes as well.SuzanneLegaultPatriciaDavidsonSarnia—Lambton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1555)[Translation]Thank you.Unfortunately, I have to cut you off there, as it is Mr. Simms' turn.Mr. Simms, you may go ahead for seven minutes.MaryDawsonScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, Lib.): (1555)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.[English]Thank you for coming, all. This is my first time here in front of you, although not the entire crew.I have a question, Madame Legault, just for my own information here. In the expenditures the statutory spending goes from $358,000 in 2013-14 up to over $1 million in 2014-15. By the same token the program expenditures change. What is that supposed to mean?Main estimates 2015-2016Office of the Information Commissioner of CanadaPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookeSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1600)[English]I'm talking about the main estimates budgetary voted.Main estimates 2015-2016SuzanneLegaultSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1600)[English] Yes, it is.Okay. I just want you to explain the expenditure between the budgetary vote as well the non-budgetary vote.Main estimates 2015-2016Office of the Information Commissioner of CanadaSuzanneLegaultSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1600)[English]Okay. That's fine.We've been here before, obviously. We've been talking about the terrible strain on your office and the ability to function with all the information coming in, and so on and so forth. There are other jurisdictions around the world that seem to be current in the way they deal with information. You spoke about that quite a bit. In the budget implementation act there's obviously nothing available for you to be up to par, we'll say, in what you hope to do. One of the policies that I've always believed in is open by default, but it seems to be very difficult here because of the lack of funds you're receiving. Is that correct?Government assistanceMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Information Commissioner of CanadaSuzanneLegaultSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1600)[English]When you approached the Treasury Board what was their reaction to what you just explained about how it's difficult for you, given the resources you have?Main estimates 2015-2016SuzanneLegaultSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1600)[English]Thank you, ma'am. We could have this conversation all day but I have other guests here too.Ms. Dawson, would it be correct to say that you've had 149 confidential rulings since 2007?Conflict of interestMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerSuzanneLegaultMaryDawson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1605)[English]The fact that there have been private rulings on matters pertaining to members of Parliament or public office holders in general.Main estimates 2015-2016MaryDawsonMaryDawson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1605)[English]How many violations have you had since 2007?Main estimates 2015-2016MaryDawsonMaryDawson//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1605)[English]In terms of he funding of the registry that was started in April, you spoke earlier about the amount of money that was required to do that. How much money was required to do that? Government assistanceMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerLyneRobinson-DalpéDeniseBenoit//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1605)[English]You said you had to go to a reserve.Main estimates 2015-2016DeniseBenoitDeniseBenoit//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1605)[English]Thank you, Mr. Simms. Your time is up. I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Maguire for seven minutes.DeniseBenoitLarryMaguireBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Mr. Maguire, you have 20 seconds left if you want to ask a quick question.LyneRobinson-DalpéLarryMaguireBrandon—Souris//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1610)[English]Now we'll move on to Madame Borg for five minutes.LarryMaguireBrandon—SourisCharmaineBorgTerrebonne—Blainville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg (Terrebonne—Blainville, NDP): (1610)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.My first question is for Ms. Legault.It ties into my colleagues' questions about Bill C-59 and the investigation into the gun registry records. In fact, I proposed a motion to study your report in the hope that we will have the opportunity to discuss the matter in greater detail.Is it accurate to say that the office handling access to information requests should operate at arm's length from the Minister of Justice's office?C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresFirearms registryMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Information Commissioner of CanadaRecordsPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookeSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1615)[Translation]Was it acceptable for the minister to interfere in the matter or should he not have done so? Main estimates 2015-2016SuzanneLegaultSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1615)[Translation]Thank you.At the end of the previous fiscal year, you appeared before the committee to request additional funding, which you were denied. And now we see in Bill C-59 what you consider to be a change in your authority. The bill actually seeks to apply the change retroactively.Do you see that as a threat to your mandate and responsibilities as commissioner?C-59, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 21, 2015 and other measuresLegislation retroactivityMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Information Commissioner of CanadaSuzanneLegaultSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1615)[Translation]Those are very serious consequences. Do you think the changes are constitutional? Main estimates 2015-2016SuzanneLegaultSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1615)[Translation]What is your next course of action? You said you referred the matter to the Office of the Auditor General. What steps will you take next?Main estimates 2015-2016SuzanneLegaultSuzanneLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1615)[Translation]Mr. Chair, do I have time left? SuzanneLegaultPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrooke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1615)[Translation]No, but we have time for another five-minute round. Mr. Dechert, you may go ahead for five minutes. CharmaineBorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleBobDechertMississauga—Erindale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[English]Thank you, Mr. Dechert.[Translation]Our first hour is up. Once again, I'd like to thank the witnesses for joining us today and giving us such valuable input. The committee will break for five minutes to give our next two witnesses a chance to take their seats.(1625)(1625)SuzanneLegaultPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrooke//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1625)[Translation]We now resume the meeting. In our second hour, we will hear from two distinguished witnesses, Ms. Shepherd, Commissioner of Lobbying; and Mr. Therrien, Privacy Commissioner. They will each have 10 minutes for their presentations on their main estimates for 2015-16. Afterwards, members will have the opportunity to ask questions until 5:30 p.m. Ms. Shepherd, thank you for being here. You have 10 minutes. Please go ahead. Pierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookeKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1640)[Translation]Thank you for your presentation, commissioner.And now, without further ado, I will turn the floor over to Mr. Therrien, Privacy Commissioner of Canada, who will have up to 10 minutes for his presentation.KarenShepherdDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1650)[Translation]Commissioner, thank you for your presentation.The committee members no doubt have many questions for you. I will give them the floor, starting with Ms. Borg.Ms. Borg, you have seven minutes.DanielTherrienCharmaineBorgTerrebonne—Blainville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1650)[Translation]Good afternoon. I would like to begin by thanking you for appearing today. We always have a lot of questions, but we have to prioritize. I will start with you, Ms. Shepherd. To ensure that the government is working on improving the lives of all Canadians, access to government organizations must be equal and there must be transparency. Your mandate mainly consists in making sure those two requirements—access and transparency—are being met.Senator Mike Duffy's trial has been dominating the news lately. During the trial, Mr. Duffy's schedule was made public. We saw that a number of meeting with various lobbyists were not registered.Do you think there are deficiencies in the way the law currently operates? In particular, do you feel that the 20% rule is difficult to apply? Lobbying and lobbyistsMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookeKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1650)[Translation]Thank you.During Mr. Duffy's trial, we also learned that he was often the one who initiated meetings, so they did not have to be registered. Is that something we should address?Lobbying and lobbyistsMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingKarenShepherdKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1650)[Translation]Mr. Duffy organized several meetings with Enbridge. The company apparently informed the Office of the Prime Minister that it had contact with the senator on a number of occasions and was somewhat uncomfortable with that. Was your office informed of those contacts?Lobbying and lobbyistsMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingKarenShepherdKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1650)[Translation]Thank you.I will switch departments and ask you a few questions, Mr. Therrien.During this session of Parliament, the committee considered several bills directly related to protecting the privacy of Canadians, including Bills C-44 and C-51. Unfortunately, you were not invited to testify. I think that those bills may negatively affect your ability to ensure that the privacy of Canadians is respected. What do you think?C-44, An Act to amend the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act and other ActsC-51, An Act to enact the Security of Canada Information Sharing Act and the Secure Air Travel Act, to amend the Criminal Code, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act and the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other ActsMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Privacy Commissioner of CanadaPrivacy of personal recordsKarenShepherdDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1655)[Translation]I assume it's always good to have as many forums as possible.I would now like to briefly discuss Bill S-4, which will soon become law. We examined it in committee at second reading. You testified at those meetings. You proposed a few amendments, including to clauses 6 and 7 of the bill. However, those proposals were not accepted, and no changes have been made to the original version of the bill. Are you worried about the repercussions that may have?Main estimates 2015-2016Office of the Privacy Commissioner of CanadaPrivacy of personal recordsS-4, An Act to amend the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act and to make a consequential amendment to another ActDanielTherrienDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1655)[Translation]Thank you, Ms. Borg. Your time is up.I give the floor to Ms. Davidson, also for seven minutes.DanielTherrienPatriciaDavidsonSarnia—Lambton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1705)[Translation]Thank you.[English]Now, I'll turn the floor over to Mr. Simms for seven minutes. KarenShepherdScottSimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1705)[English]Thank you.Ms. Shepherd, you've been busy, obviously, since the fall of 2014.Main estimates 2015-2016Pierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookeKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1705)[English]You've widened the scope; there's no doubt about that.I have a couple of questions, though. It says here in this publication you gave concerning the committee:A lobbyist shall not arrange for another person a meeting with a public office holder when the lobbyist and public office holder share a relationship that could reasonably be seen to create a sense of obligation.In your testimony you talked about a simplification of the code, which I respect, like as a close personal friend. The simplification aspect I get, but it leaves open a lot of questions as to knowing where the parameters are. I'm just putting myself in someone's shoes to try to figure out whether I should engage with a person I know. For all intents and purposes, this town is not that big, so we tend to see each other in social settings and so on. I'm just trying to figure out what kind of parameters you are looking at.Lobbying and lobbyistsLobbyists' Code of ConductMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingKarenShepherdKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1705)[English] I see that. That's clear enough. Let's take the case where you have a lobbyist approaching a member of Parliament's office and she had worked for that member of Parliament, say, a year ago or two years ago. How is that connection interpreted by you?Lobbying and lobbyistsMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingKarenShepherdKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1705)[English]I can see what you're saying about the fact that there's a direct connection with people and sometimes we know of situations where that happens—I won't go into detail. It tends to hit the news in a hard way and people get disgusted by it, as I do, as a lot of people do. We don't want to see that. We want to see transparency.Again, as I say, I get the simplification, but the question mark surrounding this is if you're doing this for a living, then sometimes it gets hard to decipher what the relationship is. You talk about the reasonable person test; I guess that's what you're saying.Main estimates 2015-2016KarenShepherdKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1705)[English]Yes. I see the downside of it, as was illustrated earlier by the question about the Senate, the Duffy scenario, and so on and so forth. I can see how some of that is frightening, to say the least. There are other cases, too, when as a former critic—I was critic of Heritage—I was lobbied. I had discussions with a lot of groups in the arts community and the broadcasting community, and it was a real education for me. Yes, they want to further their interests, but my interests were served as well. I wouldn't want to see a chill over this kind of industry, where there are these loose parameters and we're not sure where we're stepping, always treading on—Main estimates 2015-2016KarenShepherdKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1705)[English]What kinds of enforcement tools do you have? You obviously want to increase the amount of enforcement you can put on people who go awry.Lobbying and lobbyistsMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingPenaltiesKarenShepherdKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1710)[English]Are there certain provinces that have more powers than you? I believe that's the case, isn't it?Main estimates 2015-2016KarenShepherdKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1710)[English]It's Quebec, and Newfoundland and Labrador. What do they do specifically that you can't?Lobbying and lobbyistsMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingPenaltiesKarenShepherdKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1710)[English]It seems rather reasonable to me. How do you feel about that?Main estimates 2015-2016KarenShepherdKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1710)[English]Sorry, I'm short on time, here. Thank you very much, Ms. Shepherd. I appreciate that.Mr. Therrien, you said, and I'm quoting you here, that in meeting new responsibilities, the case for an adjustment will be necessary in the future. You said that under PIPEDA it went up 50%. Is this the adjustment you're seeking, in cases under PIPEDA?Main estimates 2015-2016Office of the Privacy Commissioner of CanadaPrivacy of personal recordsKarenShepherdDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1710)[English]But you will, right?DanielTherrienDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1710)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Simms.I now give the floor to Mr. Dechert, who has seven minutes.DanielTherrienBobDechertMississauga—Erindale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1715)[English]Thank you, Mr. Dechert.Now the last five minutes goes to Madam Borg.BobDechertMississauga—ErindaleCharmaineBorgTerrebonne—Blainville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1715)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Therrien, I would like to come back to the last part of our previous discussion. You said you requested that companies that provide personal information on a voluntary basis submit a transparency report. Have you received any responses? I know some telecommunications companies already do that. Have you received any positive responses so far?Could you also tell me whether you have asked the government to do the same? For instance, the government would be more transparent when requesting personal information from companies. CompaniesFederal institutionsMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Privacy Commissioner of CanadaPrivacy of personal recordsPierre-LucDusseaultSherbrookeDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1720)[Translation]That's great. We are looking forward to it. I think Canadians are also looking forward to seeing a bit more transparency around requests for sharing personal information. In response to Mr. Simms' questions, budgetary constraints were briefly discussed. Your office will eventually have to deal with the implementation of Bill C-51. There is also Bill S-4, whereby your advisory role with companies will increase. Under the legislation, companies are also asked to report privacy breaches to you. I understand that you are not asking for additional resources today, but that you will eventually. What are your concerns should you fail to obtain more resources?C-51, An Act to enact the Security of Canada Information Sharing Act and the Secure Air Travel Act, to amend the Criminal Code, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act and the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other ActsMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Privacy Commissioner of CanadaS-4, An Act to amend the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act and to make a consequential amendment to another ActDanielTherrienDanielTherrien//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71557CharmaineBorgCharmaine-BorgTerrebonne—BlainvilleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BorgCharmaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Charmaine Borg: (1720)[Translation]Thank you.Regarding budgetary problems, Ms. Shepherd, you also said that you have lost 8% of your budget since 2011, if my information is correct. You explained that it was becoming difficult to balance your activities. Can you tell us more about that?Main estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingDanielTherrienKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71553Pierre-LucDusseaultPierre-Luc-DusseaultSherbrookeNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DusseaultPierreLuc_NDP.jpgInterventionThe Chair: (1725)[Translation]Thank you, Ms. Borg. You are out of time. I have to use the remaining five minutes to call the votes we have been discussing over the past two hours.I thank the witnesses for being here. They can stay for their votes if they wish. If not, they are free to leave. I will call the votes now.OFFICE OF THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND ETHICS COMMISSIONER Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$6,178,280(Vote 1 agreed to)[English]OFFICES OF THE INFORMATION AND PRIVACY COMMISSIONERS OF CANADAVote 1—Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada - Program expenditures..........$9,927,361Vote 5—Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada - Program expenditures..........$21,908,457(Votes 1 and 5 agreed to on division)[Translation]OFFICE OF THE COMMISSIONER OF LOBBYINGVote 1—Program expenditures..........$4,026,414 (Vote 1 agreed to on division)SENATE ETHICS OFFICERVote 1—Program expenditures.......... $1,059,500(Vote 1 agreed to on division)The Chair: Shall the chair report to the House?Some hon. members: Agreed.The Chair: The chair will report to the House at the earliest opportunity.This concludes our 37th meeting. I thank the committee members for being here and for their excellent questions. I also want to thank the witnesses who came to testify.The meeting is adjourned.Decisions in committeeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner of LobbyingOffice of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics CommissionerOffice of the Information Commissioner of CanadaOffice of the Privacy Commissioner of CanadaSenate Ethics OfficerKarenShepherd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (1630)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I will be sharing my time with my colleague.I thank the guests for being here, especially the representatives of the two universities, which, coincidentally, are those where I got my degrees.My first question is for Dr. Mangin.My venerable age allows me to remember my first walks in the forest. At that time, logging was done quite differently. We were told that the tons of forest residues that were left behind helped the soil regenerate. When I listen to the guests before us, I feel that forest residue, today, is a gold mine.Does the biomass make it possible to carry out, commercially and profitably, all the projects that have been proposed? I know you have others in the pipeline that you have not talked about yet.BiomassBiomass energyEconomic renewalForest products industryLeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightPatriceMangin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1630)[Translation]You were also talking about trees that were not necessarily profitable and burnt forests.BiomassBiomass energyEconomic renewalForest products industryPatriceManginPatriceMangin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1630)[Translation]In those circumstances, would we have to make choices by region? If your project was carried out in the Mauricie, we could forget the possibility of manufacturing wood pellets in the area, which does not mean it could not be done elsewhere.BiomassEconomic renewalForest products industryPatriceManginPatriceMangin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1630)[Translation]Is there an authority that can coordinate these diverse needs, or these various possibilities?Biomass energyEconomic renewalForest products industryRegional developmentPatriceManginPatriceMangin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1630)[Translation]Thank you.Unfortunately I must stop you there. We will resume later.PatriceManginDanyMorinChicoutimi—Le Fjord//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin (Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, NDP): (1630)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Beauregard, you said that the sustainable future of forestry in rural communities matters to you. I'm from Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean. As I listened to your presentation, what came to mind immediately with respect to ensuring the sustainability of forestry in my part of the country were aboriginal claims, protection of the woodland caribou and the failure of some businesses to maintain FSC certification.Given your background, you are very familiar with the forestry industry. How would you solve the three problems affecting my region?Aboriginal land claimsEconomic renewalForest certificationForest products industryWoodland caribouRobertAubinTrois-RivièresRobertBeauregard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71380DanyMorinDany-MorinChicoutimi—Le FjordNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinDany_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Dany Morin: (1635)[Translation]Mr. Beauregard, what advice would you give to the federal government? What is the federal government's role in this area?Economic renewalFirst NationsForest certificationForest products industryRobertBeauregardRobertBeauregard//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, NDP): (1655)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I'd like to thank the witnesses because this has been one of the most informative and interesting sessions in our study on the forestry industry.I'd like to start with the exchange between Mr. Mangin and Mr. Arsenault following the question asked by my colleague, Mr. Aubin. It was about exporting wood pellet versus finding domestic markets for them.Mr. Arsenault, I was surprised that you did not mention the $45 per tonne U.S. subsidy. The Americans are starting to compete with us on our own soil. That subsidy was introduced in 2009 and renewed in 2010. To date, there's been $235 million in subsidies. Is that preventing us from reaching the American market and being competitive in our own markets given that the Americans are starting to export to eastern Canada in particular?Economic renewalExportsForest products industryUnited States of AmericaLeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightJohnArsenault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1655)[Translation]Mr. Mangin's question is relevant, nevertheless. Why don't we use more here in Canada?Economic renewalForest products industryRenewable energy and fuelWood pelletsJohnArsenaultJohnArsenault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1655)[Translation]I'm thinking of major projects. In my riding, which is in Témiscouata, there are maple syrup producers. People are starting to use biomass to run their evaporators. I'm thinking of all kinds of infrastructure, such as churches and schools. In my riding, in my region, communities are doing those conversions, but it doesn't see to be going far enough fast enough.I see another problem with domestic use versus export. Many European players are now coming here for raw materials. They process it and then they ship it out. A Belgian company is going to set up shop in Saint-Jean-de-Dieu and Causapscal in the lower St. Lawrence region, which is good news. That will create jobs. The company is going to take the resource, make the torrefied pellets and then ship them to Belgium. The pellets are for use over there only. Why wouldn't Quebec companies do the same thing and benefit from those European markets just like a company that comes here?Economic renewalExportsForest products industryJohnArsenaultJohnArsenault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1655)[Translation]Can you comment further on that?Economic renewalForest products industryRenewable energy and fuelJohnArsenaultJohnArsenault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, NDP): (1550)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Is everyone who needs simultaneous interpretation able to hear me in English?An hon. member: It's perfect.BenLobbHuron—BruceBenLobbHuron—Bruce//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1555)[Translation]I'm a nurse. Until recently, I worked in emergency and intensive care. I regularly saw patients with chronic or serious mental health problems requiring hospitalization. They were given appropriate care. Afterward, there was follow-up, and they consulted a psychiatrist during their time in hospital.However, the situation is different for people with acute mental health problems who do not necessarily need hospitalization. Acute mental health problems can stem from adjustment disorder, a difficult event in one's life or other somewhat less serious situations. Being from a small region, I know that these people are often looked after by a family doctor or GP who provides emergency care.Time is an important factor. Consultation and medication selection happen very quickly. I get the sense that, in many cases, that choice does not necessarily take side effects into account. Over the past 30 years, many new medications have come on the market. In 95% of cases, they're the same two molecules. In my region, citalopram and venlafaxine are the ones we see all the time. However, as everyone knows, compliance is one of the key factors here. How can we take better care of patients whose cases are slightly less serious and ensure that they are prescribed medications with the least harmful side effects? How can we ensure that we are not neglecting people whose clinical situation is a little less serious than that of others?Antidepressant drugsHealth services accessibilityMental healthBenLobbHuron—BrucePadraicCarr//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1600)[Translation]I'd like to add something to that.Sometimes I get the impression that when people have a chronic illness, such as schizophrenia, they get excellent care from a team, and all of the resources are deployed because those people have severe health problems. However, if someone is having trouble coping after a separation and is not seen as needing hospitalization or is not a suicide risk, their case is treated cursorily and they're sent back home quickly. They're prescribed antidepressants after an assessment that lasts about 10 minutes. Their situation is not considered an emergency, and they're not considered to be in need of psychological follow-up.There are still lots of people without a family doctor. Usually, people who don't have a family doctor are in good health and are not considered priority clients. A man in good health who goes through a separation at the age of 40 might not have a family doctor. I get the impression that it can be harder to provide care for less severe mental health issues because so many resources are allocated to severe cases and people who have many more problems. Do you see that in your day-to-day practice?Health services accessibilityMental healthPadraicCarrPadraicCarr//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/232ChristineMooreChristine-MooreAbitibi—TémiscamingueNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/MooreChristine_NPD.jpgInterventionMs. Christine Moore: (1730)[English]Maybe I will ask my question of Mr. Merali because he's a researcher. Do you think there's a higher risk for first responders working in rural areas? I ask because in those regions everyone knows each other and there's the risk of being confronted with someone you know or have a relationship with. I have witnessed many times in the hospital cases where first responders have to intervene on behalf of family or friends. Do you think the risk is higher for those first responders working in rural areas?Emergency response and emergency respondersMental healthPost-traumatic stress syndromeRural communitiesBenLobbHuron—BruceZulMerali//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71538SadiaGroguhéSadia-GroguhéSaint-LambertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GroguheSadia_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Sadia Groguhé (Saint-Lambert, NDP): (1530)[English]Yes, I can go first, but we have to—PhilMcColemanBrantPhilMcColemanBrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71538SadiaGroguhéSadia-GroguhéSaint-LambertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GroguheSadia_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Sadia Groguhé: (1545)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.My first question is for our witnesses from the Canada Revenue Agency and the Department of Finance.You quickly went over the criteria, if I may put it that way, for the new rules for charities.However, I would like to come back to the negative impact that a number of witnesses raised here, before this committee, with regard to the costs associated with adopting social finance. For example, when David Juppe, senior operating budget manager and tax expert from Maryland testified, he illustrated to us that using social finance, including SIBs, would cost the government more because of the use of a third party and the pay-for-success model. He even described SIBs as the government's credit card.I would like your take on this warning. In your view, how can we effectively assess the recurring cost of social finance in general and SIBs in particular? When might such an assessment take place? Before, after, or during the launch? How can we truly know, in any meaningful way, what the government is getting itself into and what costs will be associated with this social finance?Cost-benefit analysisSocial financeSocial impact bondsPhilMcColemanBrantPhilMcColemanBrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71538SadiaGroguhéSadia-GroguhéSaint-LambertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GroguheSadia_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Sadia Groguhé: (1550)[Translation]I could reword my question.PhilMcColemanBrantMiodragJovanovic//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71538SadiaGroguhéSadia-GroguhéSaint-LambertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GroguheSadia_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Sadia Groguhé: (1550)[Translation]Okay.Ms. Harty, you mentioned at a prior committee meeting that you studied the issue. Can you tell us a bit more about it?MiodragJovanovicSiobhanHarty//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71538SadiaGroguhéSadia-GroguhéSaint-LambertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GroguheSadia_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Sadia Groguhé: (1555)[Translation]Okay.Ms. Hawara, you said that charities would be allowed to work on social issues involving education, job integration, and other things. The rules serve to promote the implementation you described. On the other hand, is the method for determining the social impact of these initiatives applied ahead of time? I suppose they are, or at least I hope so. Charitable organizationsSocial financeSiobhanHartyCathyHawara//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71538SadiaGroguhéSadia-GroguhéSaint-LambertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GroguheSadia_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Sadia Groguhé: (1555)[Translation]Okay.CathyHawaraPhilMcColemanBrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71533Marie-ClaudeMorinMarie-Claude-MorinSaint-Hyacinthe—BagotNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarieClaude_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Marie-Claude Morin (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, NDP): (1615)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I also want to thank the witnesses for coming here today. It is always greatly appreciated.Ms. Harty, my question is for you.Some witnesses mentioned that some of the programs for SMEs could also benefit non-profit and charitable organizations. Are you able to give us a brief overview of the programs that are available to the SMEs that are not available to non-profits? If not, perhaps your colleagues could say a few words about this. I don't know whether you are able to answer that question.Associations, institutions and organizationsSocial financePhilMcColemanBrantSiobhanHarty//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71533Marie-ClaudeMorinMarie-Claude-MorinSaint-Hyacinthe—BagotNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarieClaude_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Marie-Claude Morin: (1620)[Translation]Okay.SiobhanHartySiobhanHarty//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71533Marie-ClaudeMorinMarie-Claude-MorinSaint-Hyacinthe—BagotNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarieClaude_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Marie-Claude Morin: (1620)[Translation]No problem. In fact, I wanted clarification on that question.I have no further questions, Mr. Chair.SiobhanHartySiobhanHarty//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71533Marie-ClaudeMorinMarie-Claude-MorinSaint-Hyacinthe—BagotNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarieClaude_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Marie-Claude Morin: (1620)[Translation]Yes, that would be good if Industry Canada were able to indicate which programs are for SMEs and non-profits, and which programs are not for non-profits.Social financeSiobhanHartySiobhanHarty//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71533Marie-ClaudeMorinMarie-Claude-MorinSaint-Hyacinthe—BagotNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MorinMarieClaude_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Marie-Claude Morin: (1620)[Translation]Thank you very much.I have no further questions, Mr. Chair.SiobhanHartyPhilMcColemanBrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71538SadiaGroguhéSadia-GroguhéSaint-LambertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GroguheSadia_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Sadia Groguhé: (1635)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Ms. Harty, I would like some clarification.How will we proceed with social finance? Are we going to keep issuing calls for proposals under a very specific framework for which the organizations will be able to submit an application or will it be the organizations that will issue very specific requests to implement such-and-such a project?Application processGovernment programsSocial financePhilMcColemanBrantSiobhanHarty//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71538SadiaGroguhéSadia-GroguhéSaint-LambertNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GroguheSadia_NDP.jpgInterventionMrs. Sadia Groguhé: (1635)[Translation]Thank you.SiobhanHartyPhilMcColemanBrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71407TyroneBenskinTyrone-BenskinJeanne-Le BerNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BenskinTyrone_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Tyrone Benskin (Jeanne-Le Ber, NDP): (1350)[English]I thank all of you for your presentations. I echo the comments of my colleague and salute your bravery in coming forward and sharing your stories, making us more aware of what's happening in Vietnam.This is an open question for anyone who cares to answer. Since the Vietnamese government agreed to respect human rights, how much access has the international community had to Vietnam to monitor or observe the situation of human rights in Vietnam?Civil and human rightsPolitical powerVietnamWayneMarstonHamilton East—Stoney CreekBac TruyenNguyen//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon (Québec, NDP): (1235)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.As you know, Canada is the only developed country with an intellectual property deficit. That means that we spend more buying other countries' technology than the rest of the world does buying ours.In a recent article I brought to this committee, the author, Jim Balsillie, criticized the fact that Canada has no intellectual property strategy. The European Union has a sophisticated system for protecting intellectual property. Obviously that is part of the Canada-Europe Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement, which ensures prosperity for Europe's pharmaceutical industry.Do you think that Canada still has a way to go when it comes to protecting our businesses' intellectual property? I think you will all have something to say about that.InnovationIntellectual propertyInternational relationsDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—WestdaleColinMcKay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1235)[Translation]Okay.ColinMcKayColinMcKay//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1240)[Translation]Mr. Lavoie, what do you have to say about this?ColinMcKayMartinLavoie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1240)[Translation]Is it a good strategy to set that aside for a while and tell ourselves that it is constantly changing in any event? It may be necessary to constantly update it as much as possible, knowing that we will not always be completely up to date and that the strategy will always have to be improved. Can we not start now? Do we not run the risk of falling behind other countries?InnovationMartinLavoieMartinLavoie//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71499AnnickPapillonAnnick-PapillonQuébecNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PapillonAnnick_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Annick Papillon: (1240)[Translation]I would like to talk some more about this very important article.Representatives of the University of Toronto say that U of T is in a class with the likes of MIT and Stanford University when it comes to research and development. However, Stanford University has generated $1.3 billion U.S. in royalties on its intellectual property. The Massachusetts Institute of Technology issued 288 U.S. patents last year alone. The University of Toronto generates less than $3 million Canadian in annual income and averages eight patents a year. That is not much compared to the American universities.What can we do so that our universities are more competitive with American universities?What do you think, Ms. Cukier? You talked quite a bit about how universities lag behind.InnovationIntellectual propertyMartinLavoieDavidSweetAncaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette (Drummond, NDP): (0940)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.First of all, I would like to thank Mr. Miltenberger for this information. The fact that there is only one meeting a year is quite troubling, given all the work that is needed on the water issue. That issue, of course, is vital for all Canadians.I would like to ask Mr. Fox a question about it.You mentioned the importance of safety in relation to water, and everyone in Canada is in agreement. You also mentioned the quite serious impact that climate change is having on the cycle of flood and drought.In that connection, I am wondering about melting glaciers. According to a report by the National Climate Assessment in the United States, the acceleration in glacier melt is troubling. In British Columbia, there is concern about the Lloyd George Glacier, west of Fort Nelson, the Castle Creek Glacier, near McBride, and the Tiedermann Glacier, in the Coast Mountains, as well as those in the Columbia River basin.Of the 200,000 glaciers on the planet, 17,000 of them are in British Columbia and 800 are in Alberta. They are very important for our water resources.Are you looking at the impact of glacier melt as part of your study on climate change?Canada Water ActClimate change and global warmingWater resourcesHaroldAlbrechtKitchener—ConestogaDonFox//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0940)[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Miltenberger, you mentioned the integrated monitoring plan for the oil sands. Two days ago, I introduced a motion about a study that we should conduct on the joint oil sands monitoring program. If I am not mistaken, you said that it would be good to have more information on the subject.Can you tell us what additional information you would need in order to better understand the impacts on the Mackenzie basin?Canada Water ActIntegrated Oil Sands Environment Monitoring PlanWater resourcesDonFoxJ. MichaelMiltenbergerHon.//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/35351FrançoisChoquetteFrançois-ChoquetteDrummondNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/ChoquetteFrançois_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. François Choquette: (0940)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Given that we are going to deal with committee business later, I would like to make the following motion now:That the Committee conduct a study on the impacts of climate change and resulting new resource development and transportation routes on the Arctic, its environment, species, and ecological balance.The motion was first made on February 5, 2014. We can come back to it at the end of this meeting.Agriculture, environment and natural resourcesArcticClimate change and global warmingRoads and road transportationJ. MichaelMiltenbergerHon.HaroldAlbrechtKitchener—Conestoga//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre (Alfred-Pellan, NDP): (0905)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would also like to thank Mr. Farrant and Mr. Brown for joining us today to discuss Bill C-637.My first questions will be about a concern of mine, a concern shared by a number of police officers with whom I have discussed the bill. It deals with the impact it could have on their work.It is sometimes very difficult to distinguish an air gun from a regular gun. I have several air guns myself, including one that looks very much like a rifle equipped with a big telescope. From a distance, someone unfamiliar with rifles could well think it was a regular one.I have discussed the change the bill proposes in this regard with a number of police officers. It is one of their concerns. It will certainly make their work more difficult because they will now have to distinguish between an air gun and a regular firearm. In their opinion, that could make their working conditions more dangerous, depending on the confrontations that might arise and the situations that police services may have to deal with.My first question goes to Mr. Farrant. Have you discussed this with any police officers? Do you understand their concern and, specifically, what do you think about it?Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Firearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsSafetyDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsGregFarrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (0905)[Translation]Thank you.Mr. Brown, do you have any comments on the question I put to Mr. Farrant?GregFarrantToddBrown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (0910)[Translation]Thank you very much.Mr. Farrant, in your presentation and your reply to my first question, you talked about people who might face, or who currently do face, criminal charges under the current act. Have many members of your organization ever faced criminal charges under the current act, that is, before the changes proposed in Bill C-637? Has that ever happened to any of your members? If so, could you give us an approximate idea of the number of people it has happened to?Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Criminal chargesFirearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsSafetyToddBrownGregFarrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud (Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, NDP): (0925)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. First, I would like to thank Mr. Farrant and Mr. Brown for their presentations. Mr. Brown, I would like to follow up on a question that my colleague Ms. Doré Lefebvre asked. Do you know whether any members of your organization have ever been convicted under the current legislation?Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Firearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsSafetyDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsToddBrown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (0930)[Translation]Thank you very much.In my constituency of Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, there are a lot of hunters and anglers. So I am quite sensitive to their concerns. The head office of the Fédération québécoise des chasseurs et pêcheurs is located in Saint-Augustin-de-Desmaures, which is also in my constituency. So I am very familiar with the issues.Mr. Farrant and yourself said that the bill we are studying would have a preventive effect, but that it does not seem to tackle the real issue. That is what I understand from your comments. Moreover, the Canadian Police Association mentioned that the number of actual convictions, not the number of charges brought to court, is very low, less than 10, actually. I am still new to this committee and I am trying to understand the need for this bill.Gentlemen, I am going to bring up something else. You mentioned that businesses could be affected by the legislation. Do you know of any businesses that have financial difficulties because of the current legislation, that might have had things seized or other problems as a result of the current legislation?Mr. Brown, you can answer first and Mr. Farrant can comment later.Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Criminal chargesFirearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsSafetyToddBrownToddBrown//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (0930)[Translation]To your knowledge, it is not a problem and has not been a problem in the past for the businesses selling this kind of firearm.Mr. Farrant, are you aware of any problems that business are currently having?Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Firearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsRetail tradeSafetyToddBrownGregFarrant//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I would also like to thank Ms. Austen and Mr. Bernardo for joining us to discuss BillC-637.In the last hour, witnesses raised questions about the concerns of police officers across Canada, as expressed by the Canadian Police Association, for example. I am going to quote a passage from a study by the Association des policières et policiers provinciaux du Québec:With respect, we seriously question where the public interest lies in permitting the free and unrestricted transportation and storage of weapons as potentially dangerous as those included in the bill.We also believe that failing to regulate the transportation and storage of those kinds of weapons in the same way as firearms will increase the possibility of them circulating freely. That in itself can do nothing but increase the number of situations in which police officers or members of the public will encounter what they believe to be a genuine firearm, with all the unfortunate or tragic consequences that may ensue.…we cannot look favourably on the passage of this bill because we feel that the public interest is being sacrificed to the personal interest of the small number of those it will benefit, all to the detriment of safety. I wanted to quote the position of that association because the bill that we are studying affects public safety.Ms. Austin, thank you for being here today. I am going to use the little time I have left to ask you some questions.Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Firearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsSafetyTransportationDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsKatherineAustin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]You can also use the simultaneous interpretation.Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Firearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsSafetySimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementKatherineAustinKatherineAustin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]There is no problem. You can listen to the simultaneous interpretation you have available.Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Firearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsSafetySimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementKatherineAustinKatherineAustin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]I will give you time to put on your headset. The wonderful interpreters we have with us today will be able to translate what I am saying for you.At the last committee meeting about this bill, we asked questions about the best practices to instil into young people about firearms use.Ms. Austin, can you hear the simultaneous interpretation?Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Firearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsSafetySimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementKatherineAustinKatherineAustin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]You can control the volume of the interpretation where your microphone is.My thanks to Mr. Atamanenko for his help. That is very kind.At the last committee meeting, my colleague Mr. Garrison asked a question that I see as very interesting. It dealt with the best practices to instil into our children. You mentioned—Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Firearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsSafetySimultaneous interpretation and sound reinforcementKatherineAustinDarylKrampPrince Edward—Hastings//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71338RosaneDoré LefebvreRosane-DoréLefebvreAlfred-PellanNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/DoréLefebvreRosane_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Rosane Doré Lefebvre: (1020)[Translation]I will try to be brief.You mentioned the impact made by the high velocity of the air guns included in these provisions. What would be the best practices to instil into our children? What should we do to help them in this regard? Which best practices should we establish as an alternative to passing this bill?Air gunsC-637, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (firearms storage and transportation)Education and trainingFirearms permitsPrivate Members' BillsSafetyDarylKrampPrince Edward—HastingsKatherineAustin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris (St. John's East, NDP): (1555)[English]Thank you for joining us today. I do wish to put on the record that your visit here is welcome but that the official opposition gets, I think, a total of 12 minutes of questions and answers to deal with this $20 billion budget and all the responsibilities that go with it.Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerPeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1555)[English]Well, that was just announced when you just spoke.Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerPeterKentHon.ThornhillJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1555)[English]That would be fine too. We go by notices that we receive officially, and I thank you for your new official notice. As vice-chair, I think it would have been nice to know about it.Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1555)[English]I appreciate that, Mr. Minister. That's good to hear.My first question is for your colleague Mr. Fantino. It's about something I also just heard. Did I hear correctly that you suggested that your title was associate minister for Arctic sovereignty? Is that a new title?Canadian Arctic sovereigntyCommunications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerPeterKentHon.ThornhillJulianFantinoHon.Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1555)[English]So it's just one of your responsibilities, not part of your title?Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJulianFantinoHon.VaughanJulianFantinoHon.Vaughan//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1555)[English]I thought that's what I heard.Mr. Kenney, first of all I appreciate your unequivocal answer today in the House regarding the establishment of a board independent of the military to look at sexual misconduct complaints. I do need to ask you, though, given that a directive was issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff on February 25 that General Whitecross' team should be prepared to, on order, transition to a permanent establishment in National Defence, reporting to the CDS, whether I should take it from your answer that the directive has been countermanded by you as minister.Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerSexual harassmentJulianFantinoHon.VaughanJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1555)[English]Mr. Minister, this directive, of course, was issued after the CDS had a copy of the report or a draft of the final report, and was made with that in mind. The press conference that General Lawson had also included the suggestion that this was an interesting idea—the independent report—and that they were going to study these proposals. I'm just wondering, was it any action on your part that has given us the kind of unequivocal statement that you made in the House today that there will be an independent body? I say this because about a year ago the military did an internal study that gave the military a clean bill of health, in direct contrast, obviously, to what we see from Madame Deschamps.Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1600)[English]I take it from that that you played no role whatsoever in providing confidence in the public—Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1600)[English]So you've not intervened at all.One of the other questions that about the report was the concern that Madame Deschamps expressed about her mandate and the limitations on the scope of the report, which, of course, the military determined prior to engaging Madame Deschamps. The limitations relate to the military or criminal justice system, including any decision made to exercise discretion as to whether or not to investigate complaints, lay charges, proceed with charges, or prosecute charges, in other words, all of the actions and the conduct of military police and all of the actions that would involve a prosecution for sexual assault. Yet she indicates that the victims express concerns about how they would be treated by the military justice system, which has lead to their not reporting sexual assaults. Many who did report said that their experience was atrocious. She heard that assaults that do not result in physical injury tend to be ignored and that charges are often not laid in these cases. That seems to be a very fundamental problem for women in particular, but not exclusively in the military, where the justice system appears not to be responsive to the complaints and to the situations that occur.Sir, given that the military has only had jurisdiction to prosecute sexual assaults since 1998, would you be prepared to undertake or ask for a review of the operation of the miliary justice system with respect to sexual assaults?Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceInquiries and public inquiriesMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary justice systemMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud (Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, NDP): (1625)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Unfortunately, the minister does not spark my interest today.Mr. Kenney and Mr. Fantino, thank you for your presentations. I appreciate the information you have provided to the committee, but I would have liked to have the written documents before you read them. It would have been easier to follow along.I too would like to go back to the whole issue of the Deschamps report and General Lawson's directives. My family has a long military tradition and, when I see things like that, I honestly find it troubling. I have read the Chief of the Defence Staff's statement, which you have circulated, and I heard you say that it should not be viewed as restrictive orders. However, I think that sends a rather negative message on the intentions of the office of the Chief of the Defence Staff. The Canadian armed forces are having problems with recruitment right now, especially in the primary reserve, whose personnel is well below the 27,000 members it should have. Under those circumstances, do you really think it will be possible to reach the recruitment targets? Actually, we cannot even assure the men and women who proudly serve in the Canadian Forces that they will be safe in their workplace and that they will have access to the necessary resources to take action if they are going through difficult situations.How can we tell the parents of these men and women that we will be taking good care of their children when they are putting their lives on the line to protect Canada? This troubles me. Could you comment on that?Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1625)[Translation]If I may, Mr. Minister, I am going to interrupt you, because I have very little time.You are saying that the armed forces seem to be willing to implement Justice Deschamps' recommendations, and I am going to hope that this is actually the case.Could you tell us where the funding will come from to implement all the recommendations in this report?Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1625)[Translation]Thank you.In the investigation led by Justice Deschamps, this whole issue of how the military justice system works was completely excluded from her mandate. However, this issue has been raised on many occasions by people who, unfortunately, were victims of sexual assault or harassment within the armed forces.Will you consider the possibility of giving directives to the office of the Chief of the Defence Staff to expand the investigation and address this specific aspect of the issue?Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesInquiries and public inquiriesMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1630)[Translation]Could you tell us when we can expect to see this bill introduced in the House? I think this is quite a pressing matter.Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerSexual harassmentJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1630)[Translation]So could we expect to see it in the next few weeks?Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1630)[Translation]That's great.JasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1635)[English]Thank you, sir.Mr. Minister, I appreciate your announcement that you have new legislation planned with respect to victims' rights. We do know, of course, that the military was excluded from the Victims Bill of Rights, which is a glaring omission. So I'm pleased that there will be an opportunity to have some proposals and an opportunity to debate the effectiveness of military justice when it comes to prosecution, particularly of sexual assault cases. I look forward to that. I know these are very late days in this particular session of Parliament, so I don't expect that to happen before we rise. Are you committed to tabling that legislation before we rise?BillsCommunications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerSexual harassmentPeterKentHon.ThornhillJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1635)[English]The last point on Madame Deschamps' report is that I have a motion before this committee to invite you as well as Madame Deschamps and the Chief of the Defence Staff to come to our committee. Would you be willing to do that to talk further about the report and its implementation?Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceExternal Review into Sexual Misconduct and Sexual Harassment in the Canadian Armed ForcesMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1635)[English]Thank you. I hope that we'll be able to deal with that motion later today.To move to another point, again and again I'm finding, regarding services that are expected to be provided to the military and military families, that there seems to be glaring gaps occurring. I want to refer you to two that come to mind as a result of recent information and recent reports.The first one is the fact that the universal child care benefit doesn't appear to be universal when it comes to military families. I have here a letter addressed to a military family living and serving in the United States saying that the universal child care benefit that had been given is not available to that family because they're living outside of the country. The letter demands that $3,600 going back to 2012 be repaid. I wonder, how is it that these things occur and is this something that you can actually fix? This certainly seems to be problematic.The other one is the case of Major Marcus Brauer. The government has now twice refused to pay his $88,000 home equity assistance loss that occurred when he was forced to move from the Edmonton base to Halifax, despite his having won a grievance through the grievance procedure and having the Chief of the Defence Staff at that time supporting his grievance but being unable to pay it out. Now, that seems to me to be in direct contradiction to the notion that people who serve in the military should be entitled to get the benefits that a policy suggests they should receive. Secondly, in the case of Major Brauer, the grievance procedure that we have in place doesn't seem to provide an effective remedy when a monetary payment is required, because the Chief of the Defence Staff doesn't have the authority to actually order a monetary payment.These two things are glaring. Major Brauer has been fighting this for five years now. This case of the universal child care benefit seems another example of our military members not receiving what they should receive in government benefits.Child care allowanceCommunications Security EstablishmentCompensationDepartment of National DefenceHome Equity AssistanceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1640)[English]Vice-Chief, he won his grievance procedure. The Chief of the Defence Staff has the final say, and he said yes, you should be entitled to receive your full loss of home equity.Communications Security EstablishmentCompensationDepartment of National DefenceHome Equity AssistanceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerGuy R.ThibaultGuy R.Thibault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1655)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Lieutenant General Thibault, I would like to quickly go back to the case of Major Brauer, which my colleague Mr. Harris mentioned, because I don't quite understand the answer you gave him.Major Brauer won his grievance and he shouldn't have had to take additional action. He won and he received the support of the Chief of the Defence Staff. Now you are saying that he still has other options for remedies. I don't understand why Major Brauer still needs to fight when he won his grievance. He should not have to take further action or appeal to other authorities. I don't understand why he should still have to fight to obtain the compensation promised to him through this favourable decision. Arbitration and arbitratorsCommunications Security EstablishmentCompensationDepartment of National DefenceHome Equity AssistanceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerPeterKentHon.ThornhillGuy R.Thibault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1655)[Translation]This conclusion was revoked by the Federal Court, which reviewed the decision and concluded that this is not the approach that should have been taken. The situation is still quite problematic. My understanding is that the situation is currently in the hands of the government, not in the hands of the Chief of the Defence Staff.Arbitration and arbitratorsCommunications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerGuy R.ThibaultGuy R.Thibault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1655)[Translation]Since my time is limited, I will quickly move to another issue.Recently, a report from the Parliamentary Budget Officer was published on the fiscal sustainability of Canada's National Defence program. The conclusion of the report reads as follows: The Parliamentary Budget Office (PBO) estimates that the current force structure of the Department of National Defence (DND) is unsustainable at current funding levels. To achieve sustainability, it will be necessary to change the force structure, increase the amount of funding allocated to DND, or implement a combination of the two.The government expenditure plan for next year provides for a reduction of over $700 million in the National Defence budget. How can the Minister expect the Canadian Forces to continue their activities and to properly safeguard Canadian security when they are faced with such a reduction in the budget?I heard you say earlier that the National Defence budget will be increased, but that will start only in a number of years. In the meantime, how will the Canadian Forces be able to survive—if I may say so—this rather significant reduction in funds?Budget cutsCommunications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceGovernment expendituresMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerGuy R.ThibaultJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1700)[Translation]You are talking about the 3% escalator—I'm not sure what the equivalent term is in French—but that will start in 2017-2018. Until the 3% increase is in effect, what will the Canadian Forces do as their budget is cut?Budget cutsCommunications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceGovernment expendituresMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71496ÉlaineMichaudÉlaine-MichaudPortneuf—Jacques-CartierNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MichaudÉlaine_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Élaine Michaud: (1700)[Translation]It is the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer. If I may, I would like to add that the office would have benefited from better communication with the Department of National Defence in order to have accurate information.Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceGovernment expendituresMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerClaudeRochetteClaudeRochette//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1715)[English]Thank you, Chair. That's a novel way of increasing your time.Mr. Kenney, you were just asked about the PBO report and its conclusion that the programs were not sustainable with the current amount of money. I know there was an analysis of that, but that's not the only external group that has looked at this.The recent Canadian Defence and Foreign Affairs Institute report by Mr. David Perry suggests, using a similar kind of conclusion reached, that there was a hole in the budget and the forward plans, and that even with the $11.8 billion over 10 years that has been promised starting in 2018, there will be “a sizable fiscal hole” requiring “an adjustment to the current defence plan” by revising the plan “either by increasing funding in the short term or downgrading its expectations” for the future. Both of these reports indicate that there's a looming problem. First of all, why has any increase to try to deal with it been put off until 2017-18? Also, are you anticipating the need for decreasing what we expect from our military, or an actual need for greater funds in order to continue with the programs we have?Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceGovernment expendituresMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerPeterKentHon.ThornhillJasonKenneyHon.Calgary Southeast//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1715)[English]Thank you, sir.One of the problems, though, is that the 2% escalator that's been in place was never met because of the changes that were made to the budget, the recalculations, the contribution to decreasing the deficit, and the freezes that were put in place. That escalator hasn't actually worked now, and there's no indication that it will work in the future.Mr. Chairman, since I only have another couple of minutes left and I may not get another round, I would like to move: That the Standing Committee on National Defence invite the Minister of National Defence, the Chief of Defence Staff, and retired Supreme Court Justice Marie Deschamps as witnesses to appear before the Committee to answer questions about Justice Deschamps' external investigation of sexual misconduct in the military, and the Canadian Armed Forces' response thereto, for two hours, as soon as possible.That's my motion, sir, and I know we have the consent of the minister to participate in this meeting.Committee businessCommunications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerJasonKenneyHon.Calgary SoutheastPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1720)[English]I have just a quick question to Madam Bossenmaier, now that we have her here. I note that the budget for CSEC seems to have been decreased substantially this year over last. Under the estimates related to the signals intelligence program there's a reduction of around $110 million and about $90 million in the IT security program. Does that have anything to do with the buildings, or are these program reductions based on something else?Budget cutsCommunications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerPeterKentHon.ThornhillGretaBossenmaier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1725)[English]I'd like to note for the record that the New Democrats on the committee voted in favour of these votes, in case someone tries to say or suggest we never vote in favour of military expenditures, or we vote against all of the things for our soldiers, and all the usual kind of propaganda we hear in the House—Communications Security EstablishmentDepartment of National DefenceMain estimates 2015-2016Military Grievances External Review CommitteeMilitary Police Complaints CommissionOffice of the Communications Security Establishment CommissionerPeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1725)[English]Agreed, sir. There's no need to have a separate vote on the amendment. We accept the amendment.Committee businessPeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/3633JackHarrisJack-HarrisSt. John's EastNew Democratic Party CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/HarrisJack_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Jack Harris: (1725)[English]I think he has to be in the country.Committee businessPeterKentHon.ThornhillPeterKentHon.Thornhill//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère (Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, NDP): (1605)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would also like to thank our guests for being here with us today.You are likely aware of the reports of the OECD and other international organizations that compare the public service of different countries. Are you familiar with those documents?AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1605)[Translation]In general, the Canadian public service gets excellent marks for its integrity and professionalism.Have any of you made a connection between these excellent results and the very nature of the reports that federal organizations are required to submit? With regard to the cost of such reporting, we also need to consider that, by lowering our standards, we also risk reducing the quality of our services, which are world renowned.AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaRogerScott-DouglasRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1610)[Translation]Ms. Cheng, do you have anything to add?ChristineDonoghueNancyCheng//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1610)[Translation]I assume that the fact that you want to maintain these excellent standards and that you do not want to jeopardize the quality of the work means that every change takes time.AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaNancyChengChristineDonoghue//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1610)[Translation]That means we have to be patient. The goods will be delivered at some point. AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaChristineDonoghueChristineDonoghue//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1615)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.ChristineDonoghueDavidChristophersonHamilton Centre//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones (Labrador, Lib.): (1620)[English]I thank all of you for appearing before the public accounts committee today to discuss the reporting of federal departments, and I thank you for your presentations.I'm going to start with paragraph 2.25 of the Auditor General's report on federal organizations. In the report, it mentioned that Treasury Board Secretariat and the Public Service Commission of Canada would provide guidance and support to federal organizations to help them meet the reporting requirements. In paragraph 2.26, it was mentioned that Treasury Board had been aware since 2013 that guidance on the reporting requirement for department investment plans needed attention.I'd like you to explain what changes have been made to address this in the last two years. Are you confident that the corrections have now been made on a go-forward basis?AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreBillMatthews//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/13218YvonneJonesYvonne-JonesLabradorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/44/JonesYvonne_Lib.jpgInterventionMs. Yvonne Jones: (1620)[English]In paragraph 2.35, it was also noted that the Public Service Commission reduced the number of staffing management accountability framework indicators used in departmental staffing, from 29 to 12, I think it said. Can you tell me how this will have an impact on the reports going forward? What types of indicators were removed?AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaStaffingBillMatthewsChristineDonoghue//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms (Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, Lib.): (1640)[English]Sir, it is always a pleasure, and that's not an understatement. Thank you.My question is for the Treasury Board. I want to turn to paragraph 2.51 of the report.It mentions consultations that occurred with the Treasury Board in 2012 whereby federal organizations requested an inventory of reporting that would help them coordinate deadlines and allocate resources to meet the reporting requirements. You found that this has not taken place.Why did the Treasury Board hold consultations four years ago and not address the important feedback they received from these federal organizations?AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1640)[English]Are you accepting of the recommendations put forward then?AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaRogerScott-DouglasRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1640)[English]It says here, “The Secretariat will make this inventory publicly available on its website by spring 2016”.AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaRogerScott-DouglasRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1645)[English]That addresses the next part of my question. I'll move on.Referring to paragraph 2.45, what reasons has the Treasury Board provided for not maintaining a comprehensive up-to-date listing and schedule of its reporting requirements for sharing internally with other federal organizations and with the public at large?AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaRogerScott-DouglasRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1645)[English]Sorry, I don't mean to be moving around like this, but we don't have a lot of speaking slots so I want to get through this. Paragraph 2.32 discusses the Treasury Board's targeted review from 2011 to 2013 and mentions that the federal organizations consulted on this expressed “concerns about capacity resulting from government-wide deficit reduction initiatives”. Can you expand on what the concerns expressed were and whether the government addresses the capacity concerns?AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaRogerScott-DouglasRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1645)[English]That was from 2011 to 2013 inclusive. Okay. Once again, I have a question for the Treasury Board. I apologize, I don't mean to stay on you exclusively here.AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaRogerScott-DouglasRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1645)[English]Can you explain what has been happening over the last year and a half with the policy reset launched in 2014?AccountabilityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaRogerScott-DouglasRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1645)[English]Can you give an example of that?RogerScott-DouglasRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25456ScottSimmsScott-SimmsBonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—WindsorLiberal CaucusNewfoundland and Labrador//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/43/SimmsScott_Lib.jpgInterventionMr. Scott Simms: (1645)[English]Oh, I see.RogerScott-DouglasRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1650)[Translation]Mr. Chair, I think that all of the witnesses are aware of how subcontracting in the federal government has changed.In that respect, my question is as follows. Does it not increase the risk to replace public servants with private contractors, especially during a time of fiscal restraint? Hiring subcontractors to help us complete a task is one thing. However, if the public service loses the knowledge needed to complete a task, it will be completely dependent on subcontractors, who will then be fulfilling an entire government function.Can you tell me what risks are involved and what corrective measures can be taken in that respect?AccountabilityFinancial transactionsGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaDavidChristophersonHamilton CentreRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1655)[Translation]We spoke earlier about how information technology is evolving and the security challenges that that poses for the departments. It is a matter of knowing how much budget cuts have affected security upgrades within the departments. A lot of money went into such upgrades in the past, but despite all that, security is still at risk.Can we expect that situation to quickly improve?Accountabilitye-SecurityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaNancyChengRogerScott-Douglas//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/425AlainGiguèreAlain-GiguèreMarc-Aurèle-FortinNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/GiguèreAlain_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Alain Giguère: (1655)[Translation]Obviously, we want to avoid this sort of thing as much as possible, but if wrongdoing is committed and the department does not have the resources to remedy or even recognize it, are there people in your units who can be contacted and who can help to fix this problem?Accountabilitye-SecurityGovernment performance reportsReport 2, Required Reporting by Federal Organizations, of the Spring 2015 Reports of the Auditor General of CanadaRogerScott-DouglasChristineDonoghue//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion (Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, Lib.): (1605)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mrs. Lussier, Ms. Bellefeuille and Mrs. Andrew, and Mr. Herd and Mr. Quijada, thank you.Mrs. Lussier, I really liked your presentation, but it seems to me that one sentence remains a little incomplete and is out of step with the rest. Things seem to be working well. You have programs, and you help companies. We don't know whether its more or less than past years, but we could ask you that.The sentence in question is the following, “The programs of the Canada Council for the Arts are currently undergoing an extensive review.” Why is an extensive review being done if everything is working so well?Canada Council for the ArtsDanceOperational reviewsGordonBrownLeeds—GrenvilleCarolineLussier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[Translation]Of course. We're listening.CarolineLussierCarolineLussier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[Translation]So that we can help you adapt, do you have any suggestions for the committee?BureaucracyCanada Council for the ArtsDanceGovernment assistanceOperational reviewsCarolineLussierCarolineLussier//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[Translation]The goal of the reform you are preparing is two-fold. You want to adjust to new practices in dance and lighten the administrative burden on everyone who applies for grants so that they do not have to spend half their time filling out reports or work plans.Voices: Absolutely.[English]Hon. Stéphane Dion: Mr. Herd, Mr. Quijada, Madame Bellefeuille, you deal with the arts council, I guess. You have an opportunity now to tell us what you want to see in this review of their program, and what you don't want to see.BureaucracyCanada Council for the ArtsDanceGovernment assistanceOperational reviewsAlexisAndrewJeffHerd//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1610)[English]Thank you.Mr. Quijada.JeffHerdVictorQuijada//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English]Do you want to answer?GordonBrownLeeds—GrenvilleRathikaSitsabaiesanScarborough—Rouge River//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English] It's a good bridge to what I want to ask the three of you. Thank you very much for being with us.I would like each of you to sum up the main recommendations you are making to this committee. We have seen your passion for the activity of dance, for the art it represents, and for everything it gives to the human mind and body. What should the federal government do differently or do more of to be a better partner than is the case today? That includes Canadian Heritage, the Canada Council for the Arts, and all the federal institutions.Mr. Hines, would you like to start?ChildrenCultural heritageDanceForeign workersGovernment assistanceModern and contemporary dancePovertyGregoryHinesGregoryHines//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English]But concretely, what should the federal government do that is lacking today?DanceGregoryHinesGregoryHines//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English]Thank you. I had the sense that it was already done when I was listening to Madame Lussier earlier. She mentioned hip hop as something that is being encouraged more and more.DanceForeign workersModern and contemporary danceGregoryHinesGregoryHines//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1720)[English]Okay.Madam Reddin, what would be the main changes that we should recommend to the government?Communities and collectivitiesDanceEducation and trainingGregoryHinesPeggyReddin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1725)[English]I agree that to hear from Coleman Lemieux would be very good for this committee.DancePeggyReddinPeggyReddin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1725)[English]We'll see.I would like to understand. If you mentioned this aspect, I guess it's because you think it's not targeted enough by the federal institutions of today. Are you arguing for a new program or some adjustments to the existing programs, Madam Reddin?Communities and collectivitiesDanceEducation and trainingFinancingPeggyReddinPeggyReddin//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1725)[English] Madam Fraser, you seem to agree. Do you want to add something?DancePeggyReddinPatriciaFraser//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/460StéphaneDionHon.Stéphane-DionSaint-Laurent—CartiervilleLiberal CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/DionStéphane_Lib.jpgInterventionHon. Stéphane Dion: (1725)[English]Thank you.PatriciaFraserGordonBrownLeeds—Grenville//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin (Gatineau, NDP): (1535)[English]You're assuming correctly, sir, after 60...or how many meetings?MikeWallaceBurlingtonMikeWallaceBurlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1535)[English]Okay.[Translation]Thank you for joining us today to shed some light on the main estimates for us. I sometimes get the impression that justice is the poor cousin of the budget. It certainly does not represent a large percentage of it. Be that as it may, I feel that we have important work to do.My first question goes to Mr. Legault.Not too long ago, the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights was passed. But I see no substantial impact of it in your plans and priorities for the 2015-2016 year. I get the impression that, once again, you are going to be asked to perform miracles—and my congratulations for managing to do so—by making do with what you already have.Am I mistaken?Administrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCanadian Victims Bill of RightsCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsSupreme Court of CanadaVictimsMikeWallaceBurlingtonPierreLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1540)[Translation]This was my question. In the main estimates, can we see any impact of the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights?From what you are saying, you are going to have to help the provinces with the implementation. Clearly, that sort of thing requires an expenditure.Are you ready to implement the resources for 2015-2016?If we look at the allocations, we see that the Victims Fund has not moved: it is still $12.4 million, to be paid to non-governmental organizations. The Canadian Victims Bill of Rights is a big deal, but I really do not see its impact in the main estimates. Maybe I am not looking in the proper place.Administrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsSupreme Court of CanadaVictimsVictims FundPierreLegaultDonaldPiragoff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1540)[English]Am I correct in saying that the budget for—DonaldPiragoffDonaldPiragoff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1540)[English]As for the ombudsman, am I correct? I see a flat line, not in the sense of death but in the sense of it not moving upward with more obligation. Am I correct in what I read and what it looks like in the budget?Administrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsSupreme Court of CanadaDonaldPiragoffPierreLegault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1540)[English]Mr. Saunders, I'm sure you read the Calgary Herald with great pleasure this morning. I was both a bit shocked and not, because that's pretty much what I hear on the ground too, not only for your prosecutors but for prosecutors in general. Just in case you haven't, it said:Emails and documents obtained by the Herald from the Public Prosecution Service of Canada...through access-to-information legislation showed senior lawyers in the Alberta office have been warning superiors that under-staffing and a relatively junior workforce could place cases in jeopardy.[Translation]I will spare you a reading of the entire article, but I will say that it is quite troubling. I heard the reply that the minister gave in the House today, but I am not sure that I am comforted by it. With all the responsibilities that now fall to your department, especially all the terrorism-related matters, are there enough prosecutors, as the minister said, or is there still a way for the situation to be improved?Administrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeLawyersMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsSupreme Court of CanadaPierreLegaultBrian J.Saunders//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1545)[Translation]All across Canada?Brian J.SaundersBrian J.Saunders//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1545)[Translation]Or because the case was not heard in a reasonable time.I know that is a problem for provincial crown prosecutors. Perhaps you have just been lucky. Federal lawyers, whether they are crown prosecutors or other kinds of lawyers, say that things are moving quickly at the Department of Justice. With legislation changing all the time, the committee can also see how quickly things are moving. It is difficult to keep their heads above water.However, you are not worried at all. Personally, I find it a little worrisome that people on the inside are telling superiors that there is a problem. But you seem to be admiring the emperor's new clothes.Administrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsSupreme Court of CanadaBrian J.SaundersBrian J.Saunders//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1545)[Translation]Exactly.Brian J.SaundersBrian J.Saunders//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1545)[Translation]You cross your fingers and hope that there is not too much—Brian J.SaundersMikeWallaceBurlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71420ÈvePécletÈve-PécletLa Pointe-de-l'ÎleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PécletÈve_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ève Péclet (La Pointe-de-l'Île, NDP): (1610)[Translation]Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.Mr. Saunders, you quickly went over this topic in your presentation, but I would like a few more details.The Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections now reports to you. Could you give me some more details on the amounts you mentioned briefly in your presentation?Could you tell me the budget allocated to the operation of the Office of the Commissioner of Canada Elections?Could you also compare the amount that office receives with the amount it received before? Are we just talking about a transfer of funds? Will the budget be the same?Administrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCommissioner of Canada ElectionsCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsSupreme Court of CanadaMikeWallaceBurlingtonBrian J.Saunders//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71420ÈvePécletÈve-PécletLa Pointe-de-l'ÎleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PécletÈve_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ève Péclet: (1615)[Translation]How much money are we talking about?KathleenRousselKathleenRoussel//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71420ÈvePécletÈve-PécletLa Pointe-de-l'ÎleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PécletÈve_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ève Péclet: (1615)[Translation]Very good.The minister was asked a question about one program. There was an amount of $1.6 million to support services to victims, do violence prevention in First Nations communities and increase support nationally for missing persons investigations. The minister said that, in the upcoming supplementary estimates, he was going to ask for $2 million. He mentioned expenditures of about $1.8 million just to fight prostitution. Could you break down those costs?If $1.6 million is being transferred to another program, could you tell me the exact name of that program?What will that amount be spent on?As I do not know who can answer that question, I will not ask anyone in particular.Administrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsSupreme Court of CanadaKathleenRousselDonaldPiragoff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71420ÈvePécletÈve-PécletLa Pointe-de-l'ÎleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PécletÈve_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ève Péclet: (1615)[English] That would be in the supplementaries, not in the main estimates.Administrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsSupreme Court of CanadaDonaldPiragoffDonaldPiragoff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71420ÈvePécletÈve-PécletLa Pointe-de-l'ÎleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PécletÈve_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ève Péclet: (1615)[English]What about prostitution? I know that the minister has addressed this issue particularly. The minister promised $20 million over five years.Administrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsProstitution and prostitutesSupreme Court of CanadaDonaldPiragoffDonaldPiragoff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71420ÈvePécletÈve-PécletLa Pointe-de-l'ÎleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PécletÈve_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ève Péclet: (1615)[English] We would expect $4 million for one year, if I'm correct in that, so how much money will actually be allocated in this budget?Administrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsSupreme Court of CanadaDonaldPiragoffDonaldPiragoff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71420ÈvePécletÈve-PécletLa Pointe-de-l'ÎleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PécletÈve_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ève Péclet: (1615)[Translation]That is great.DonaldPiragoffMikeWallaceBurlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71420ÈvePécletÈve-PécletLa Pointe-de-l'ÎleNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/PécletÈve_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Ève Péclet: (1615)[Translation]Thank you.I would like to go back to my colleague's question. I think it is extremely important. Part of the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights is going to be operated by the provinces. I know that the minister talked about some budget increase for child support centres. You have been asked the question several times before, but I would like to get you back to the issue.Have you established or designated a program to handle the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights? Will that money be allocated by the department according to its plans and priorities? Are the studies, the investigations, that the department has conducted going to allow programs to be created for the provinces or the tribunals?For example, we are talking about administrative tribunals. Are some aspects of the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights going to apply to administrative rights tribunals, for example?Could you comment on that?Thank you very much.Administrative tribunalsAdministrative Tribunals Support Service of CanadaCanadian Human Rights CommissionCanadian Victims Bill of RightsCourts Administration ServiceDepartment of JusticeMain estimates 2015-2016Office of the Commissioner for Federal Judicial AffairsOffice of the Director of Public ProsecutionsSupreme Court of CanadaVictimsMikeWallaceBurlingtonDonaldPiragoff//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1630)[English]On division.BobDechertMississauga—ErindaleMikeWallaceBurlington//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1635)[English]That is unanimous. For once, I agree with my colleague opposite.(Motion agreed to)BobDechertMississauga—ErindaleBobDechertMississauga—Erindale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/25478FrançoiseBoivinFrançoise-BoivinGatineauNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/BoivinFrancoise_NDP.jpgInterventionMs. Françoise Boivin: (1635)[English]I could not let him have the last word—Voices: Oh, oh!Ms. Françoise Boivin: No, no, just kidding.Actually, I thought you would propose, since we have so much time left until the 23rd of June, that we could maybe start a study on the, I don't know, need for legal aid in Canada, the need for prosecutors, naming some more judges, but I figure the government is done now with the justice committee. But joking aside, and it's not actually a joke, I want to convey the same. We've had some hard-fought battles through the years, but honestly, to all the staff for their help and to everybody around and my colleagues, for enduring me all that time, and you also, thank you all and enjoy. I'll see some of you on October 20.MikeWallaceBurlingtonBobDechertMississauga—Erindale//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai (Brossard—La Prairie, NDP): (1630)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.I would like to thank the witnesses for being here with us today. My first questions are for Ms. Dedman.Ms. Dedman, you spoke about a rating tool or a way to assess how sustainable projects are.Could you tell us about how important this tool is? You said that previous governments did not use these sustainability criteria. Is that a problem? The Champlain Bridge is in my riding, and because it was poorly designed, it now needs to be quickly replaced. Failure to consider the sustainability of a project may result in unexpected costs.Why is this tool important today?InfrastructureQuality controlSustainable developmentLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen SoundKealyDedman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1630)[English]Currently is the government not looking at sustainability when the government goes forward on projects?InfrastructureKealyDedmanKealyDedman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1630)[English] But we'd like to see it at the federal level.InfrastructureKealyDedmanKealyDedman//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1630)[English]Perfect.Mr. Carlton, in answering Ms. Young and Mr. Braid, you mentioned some of the issues with the previous building Canada fund with respect to a lack of predictability or some municipalities making submissions but not getting the money. Can you tell us what the problems are right now? We've heard announcements regarding funds being allocated, but practically are we seeing enough projects being announced? Are the funds being well distributed quickly enough?Building Canada FundGovernment assistanceInfrastructureKealyDedmanBrockCarlton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1630)[English]This being a federal fund, are you saying the federal government should bring in more criteria in terms of, for instance, if we want it dedicated for a specific project? What should the federal government do better in order to make sure that happens?InfrastructureBrockCarltonBrockCarlton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1635)[English]Have you seen a positive response from the government on your ask?InfrastructureBrockCarltonBrockCarlton//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/58620HoangMaiHoang-MaiBrossard—La PrairieNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/41/MaiHoang_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Hoang Mai: (1635)[English]Thank you.BrockCarltonLarryMillerBruce—Grey—Owen Sound//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin (Trois-Rivières, NDP): (1605)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for this thoughtful gesture and for not cutting my time short. Thank you to all the witnesses who are here with us today sharing their experiences and their expertise. They are definitely providing us with a clearer picture, which will guide our work and help us achieve two goals: to provide an update on the forest industry since the 2008 study, and to see how the federal government can be the best possible partner in developing this industry. My first questions are for Mr. Archambault, not because Kruger has a plant in Trois-Rivières—as we know, the company has locations all over—but because I have been following the company's development for quite some time. My grandfather worked there to provide for his family, and I also worked there, as a student. A pilot project on cellulose fibre was launched last December. Research and development is absolutely crucial to success, especially the kind of success that Kruger in Trois-Rivières seems to be experiencing.R&D projects in forestry do exist. In my region, there are also R&D projects in the aircraft industry, and in many other sectors. Based on discussions I've had with many entrepreneurs in my riding, it seems that there is no consistency in how R&D projects are assessed. Depending on the office one is dealing with, whether in Quebec City or Montreal, there is no consistent criteria.Has this ever been a problem for Kruger? That would be one way for the federal government to be a better partner in the event of serious problems in that regard. This is what has come out of some of the discussions I've had with entrepreneurs. Have you had that problem?Economic renewalForest products industryResearch and researchersLeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightDanielArchambault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1610)[Translation]Have you been able to identify any reasons for that difficulty? Is it simply because the offices have different assessment criteria?Economic renewalForest products industryDanielArchambaultDanielArchambault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1610)[Translation]I guess that will be part of our job.I would also like to hear your thoughts on some of the success Kruger has enjoyed. You talked about a new fibre that is being developed and some of its potential applications.Are the potential applications intended for a secondary processing industry, or are there any applications for a product that consumers could purchase directly on the market?Cellulose filamentsEconomic renewalForest products industryDanielArchambaultDanielArchambault//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1610)[Translation]Thank you very much.I have a question for Ms. Berube.In your speech you said that you wanted the federal government to promote wood or wood frame construction.Is that because the private sector or the residential sector is still not on side with wood construction?Economic renewalForest products industryWoodDanielArchambaultMarianneBerube//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1615)[Translation]Thank you.MarianneBerubeLeonBenoitVegreville—Wainwright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/71560RobertAubinRobert-AubinTrois-RivièresNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/AubinRobert_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Robert Aubin: (1615)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.LeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightLeonBenoitVegreville—Wainwright//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron (Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, NDP): (1635)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you very much to all of you for testifying.Ms. Berube, I'll start with you. I really like the architectural possibilities that wood construction offers. It also provides a lot more flexibility than the more limited means we had before, for example with concrete.However, I'd like you to talk about how competitive wood construction is with the more traditional methods, like concrete, for example. In light of the current price of wood—softwood lumber in particular—I think that wood construction has a competitive advantage.Is that true?CostsEconomic renewalForest products industryWoodLeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightMarianneBerube//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1635)[Translation]However, with the recovery of the market, it's possible that as a result of the increase in demand, for softwood lumber in particular, the production costs, the construction costs will increase. Does this potential increase worry you? When do you think the industry will hit the critical point?CostsEconomic renewalForest products industryWoodMarianneBerubeMarianneBerube//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1635)[Translation]Earlier we heard about concerns regarding the use of wood, a flammable material. In past years, we heard from fire prevention officials who were concerned about the health hazards. You touched on that a little.However, where are we with research and development? I know that the wood is treated, for example, with fire resistant products that can slow the appearance of flames in the case of a fire. Is there additional research to find new ways to improve this protection against fires and to reassure fire prevention services or the general public about the use of wood in construction? Economic renewalFire safetyForest products industryResearch and researchersWoodMarianneBerubeMarianneBerube//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1640)[Translation]Thank you.I have a question for Mr. Innes.I want to make sure I understand what you said, Mr. Innes. When you spoke about the economic benefit the industry could draw from carbon, were you alluding to the carbon tax, carbon pricing or the fact that wood-based materials, which are effectively a form of carbon sequestration, can benefit the industry?In debates on climate change we have heard a lot about carbon sinks and about the fact that the forestry industry could benefit from some credits or provisions regarding carbon pricing.Could you clarify and, if applicable, tell us what are the current economic benefits?Carbon creditsEconomic renewalForest products industryMarianneBerubeJohnInnes//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1720)[Translation]Thank you, Mr. Chair.Thank you, Ms. Sirois, Mr. Robitaille, and Ms. Roy. I am very pleased that you are here this afternoon.Obviously, we cannot underestimate the importance of the forest for Témiscouata where 87% of the area is covered by forest.During your presentation, you mentioned that businesses in Témiscouata cannot develop in a local context alone. A number of issues might influence their capacity to export and penetrate other markets. You indicated that SMEs in the region were especially ill-equipped for managing this environment.Could you spend a bit of time elaborating on the tools the SMEs would need in order to thrive?Economic renewalForest products industryLeonBenoitVegreville—WainwrightGuylaineSirois//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1720)[Translation]Both. I want to know what the SMEs need to be able to manage this environment if they want to diversify and if we want to help them export their expertise and their products.Economic renewalForest products industrySmall and medium-sized enterprisesGuylaineSiroisRogerRobitaille//www.ourcommons.ca/Parliamentarians/en/members/23915GuyCaronGuy-CaronRimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les BasquesNew Democratic Party CaucusQuebec//www.ourcommons.ca/Content/Parliamentarians/Images/OfficialMPPhotos/42/CaronGuy_NDP.jpgInterventionMr. Guy Caron: (1725)[Translation]Thank you very much.I don't have very much time. I would like to shift gears and talk about the elimination or abolishment of the forestry job creation program.According to the Témiscouata forestry co-operative, this is going to lead to nearly $700,000 in losses and result in 30 experienced employees being laid off. I know that this decision was made by the Government of Quebec, but—correct me if I'm wrong—this program was originally funded jointly by the federal government and the Government of Quebec, and the federal government quietly backed out.What can the federal government do to help with investing in and supporting the development work that needs to be done in private forests in order for Témiscouata to be able to optimize its strength in the forestry?Economic renewalForest products industryGovernment assistanceTémiscouataRogerRobitailleRogerRobitailleINTERVENTIONParliament and SessionDiscussed TopicProcedural TermCommitteePerson SpeakingProvince / TerritoryCaucusParticipation TypeSearchResults per pageOrder byTarget search languageSide by SideMaximum returned rowsPagePUBLICATION TYPE