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Add a filter on Committee Evidence - HUMA-69
Committee Evidence - HUMA-69
2009-12-10
Dean Allison - 15:48
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 15:48
...More
I just want to make a note for the record. The committee has chosen, the majority in opposition, not to appeal the ruling of the chair because of the fact that it's not within the context of the bill or within the objective of the bill in terms of the definition, yet appealed the decision of the chair on a matter that was fundamental to this bill that would make it a less-than-national national housing policy. And I think that's regrettable.
J'aimerais simplement faire une remarque, aux fins du compte rendu. Le comité, la majorité dans l'opposition, a choisi, non pas d'en appeler de la décision du président du fait que la chose ne s'inscrive pas dans le contexte du projet de loi ni dans son objectif pour ce qui est de définition, mais d'en appeler de la décision de la présidence sur une question qui est fondamentale au projet de loi et qui ferait qu'il s'agirait d'une politique nationale de logement qui serait moins que nationale. Et je trouve cela regrettable.
...Less
C-304, An Act to ensure secure, adequate ...
National Housing Strategy
Private Members' Bills
Social housing
Dean Allison - 15:48
Dean Allison - 15:55
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 15:55
...More
If there is a ruling to be made, your option is to appeal. You did previously on a more fundamental issue, you didn't on this one, and that's your choice. There won't be any consent to change that.
Si une décision s'impose, votre option est d'en appeler. Vous l'avez fait précédemment, au sujet d'une question plus fondamentale; vous ne l'avez pas dans ce cas-ci, et c'est votre choix. Il n'y aura pas consentement pour changer cela.
...Less
Dean Allison - 15:55
Gerard Kennedy - 15:55
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 15:55
...More
We tried for about an hour to reach a bunch of your colleagues when you were away last week to say that the Speaker's ruling shouldn't have been appealed, because fundamentally you couldn't do what they intended to do and have this bill go through, and it didn't. So there's no point in prolonging--
Nous avons tenté pendant environ une heure de joindre tout un tas de vos collègues, lorsque vous étiez absent la semaine dernière, pour dire que la décision du Président de la Chambre n'aurait pas dû faire l'objet d'un appel car, au fond, il n'était pas possible de faire ce qu'ils souhaitaient et de faire adopter ce projet de loi, et il ne l'a pas été. Il ne sert donc à rien de prolonger...
...Less
C-304, An Act to ensure secure, adequate ...
National Housing Strategy
Private Members' Bills
Social housing
Dean Allison - 15:56
Dean Allison - 16:01
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:01
...More
Given that there was a challenge to the chair's ruling, there's a possibility it will be taken to a further level. Should this committee not wait to pass the bill until a definitive decision is made on that?
In light of the fact that there was great debate about the basis upon which the chair was overruled--which I found to be groundless, with no premise under it--I wonder whether the members might consider unanimous consent to hold the bill back until we have a determination from a higher level that we have some reference to common sense and logic.
Étant donné que la décision de la présidence a été contestée, il est possible que cela passe au palier supérieur. Le comité ne devrait-il pas attendre qu'une décision définitive en la matière soit rendue avant d'adopter le projet de loi?
Étant donné qu'il y a eu un vaste débat au sujet des raisons pour lesquelles la décision de la présidence a été annulée — ce que j'ai trouvé injustifié, sans fondement —, j'aimerais savoir si les membres du comité ne seraient pas prêts à consentir à l'unanimité à ce que l'on retienne le projet de loi en attendant que nous ayons une décision d'une autorité supérieure renvoyant à quelque logique et bon sens.
...Less
C-304, An Act to ensure secure, adequate ...
National Housing Strategy
Private Members' Bills
Social housing
Dean Allison - 16:02
Michel Bédard - 16:23
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:23
...More
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, as an actuary you deal with the numbers--
A voice: I know. They understand the procedures.
Monsieur le président, j'invoque le Règlement. Le témoin, en sa qualité d'actuaire, doit traiter de chiffres...
Une voix: Je sais. Ils comprennent les procédures.
...Less
Michael Savage - 16:23
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:23
...More
Let me have my point of order, Mr. Savage, and then you can speak your piece.
The point of order is that I think the question is not relevant to why we have the actuary here. It was so the committee could talk about specific costs, numbers, participants, and how he arrived at his numbers, but not about government policy, the government decision, or what process can be taken in terms of passing it or not passing it through the House in this session.
Monsieur Savage, permettez que je fasse mon rappel au Règlement, après quoi vous pourrez plaider votre cause.
Mon rappel au Règlement est le suivant. Je considère que la question est étrangère au pourquoi de la présence de l'actuaire ici. L'objectif était de permettre au comité de discuter de coûts et de chiffres précis, des participants, et de la façon dont l'actuaire en était arrivé à ces chiffres, mais non pas de traiter de la politique gouvernementale, de la décision du gouvernement ou des mécanismes pouvant être suivis en vue de l'adoption ou de la non-adoption du projet de loi par la Chambre pendant cette session.
...Less
C-56, An Act to amend the Employment Ins ...
Employment insurance
Government bills
Self-employed workers
Dean Allison - 16:24
Dean Allison - 16:24
CPC (BC)
Hon. Ron Cannan (Kelowna—Lake Country)
2009-12-10 16:24
...More
Chair, I'm sorry, before we proceed, I want to clarify one question that Mr. Savage asked.
You're saying that you feel each year there should be a three-month window--
Monsieur le président, excusez-moi, mais avant d'aller plus loin, j'aimerais tirer au clair une question qu'a posée M. Savage.
Vous dites que vous estimez que chaque année il devrait y avoir une fenêtre de trois mois...
...Less
Dean Allison - 16:24
Dean Allison - 16:26
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:26
...More
Just for the record, I don't think Mr. Lessard reads this quite right. I don't think because he says it's so it makes it so. And I take objection to his saying that we don't treat this witness with respect, because we absolutely do and we have respect for him, which means we're entitled to question him as well.
I don't agree with him, and I don't accept that on a matter of record.
Pour que les choses soient bien claires, je ne pense pas que M. Lessard ait tout à fait bien compris. Selon moi, ce n'est pas parce qu'il dit telle ou telle chose que cette chose est vraie. Et je n'apprécie pas qu'il dise que nous ne traitons pas ce témoin avec respect, car c'est tout le contraire, mais cela veut en même temps dire que nous avons le droit de l'interroger.
Je ne suis pas d'accord avec lui et je n'accepte pas cela sur une question prouvée.
...Less
C-56, An Act to amend the Employment Ins ...
Employment insurance
Government bills
Self-employed workers
Dean Allison - 16:26
Dean Allison - 16:38
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:38
...More
Thank you for appearing on what I would call the Michael Savage motion or amendment.
Merci d'être venu comparaître par suite de ce que j'appellerais la motion ou l'amendement Michael Savage.
...Less
Michael Savage - 16:38
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:38
...More
This business of being an actuary is somewhat complicated. A lot of it depends on the assumptions you make. Is that true? If you make a different assumption, you'll get a different outcome.
You're shaking your head.
Le travail de l'actuaire est quelque peu compliqué. Cela dépend largement des hypothèses que vous esquissez. Cela est-il vrai? Si vous faites une hypothèse différente, vous obtiendrez un résultat différent.
Vous secouez la tête.
...Less
C-56, An Act to amend the Employment Ins ...
Employment insurance
Government bills
Self-employed workers
Michel Bédard - 16:38
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:38
...More
You're going to have to say yes or no.
Il vous va falloir dire oui ou non.
...Less
Michel Bédard - 16:38
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:38
...More
Yes, assumptions are very important.
Before I get into the actuarial portion, I understand you have some problems with the bill itself. One was the voluntary nature of the system. That's not an actuarial matter; that's a policy matter. Would you agree?
Oui, les hypothèses sont très importantes.
Avant d'entamer le volet actuariel, je crois comprendre que vous avez des problèmes avec le projet de loi lui-même. C'est notamment le cas en ce qui concerne la nature volontaire du système. Il ne s'agit pas là d'une question actuarielle, mais d'une question de politique. En conviendriez-vous?
...Less
C-56, An Act to amend the Employment Ins ...
Employment insurance
Government bills
Self-employed workers
Michel Bédard - 16:38
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:38
...More
Yes, it will have an impact. Whether you commit people for life once they join a program is another policy decision, is it not?
Oui, cela aura une incidence. Le fait d'engager les gens à vie une fois qu'ils ont adhéré à un programme est une autre décision de principe, n'est-ce pas?
...Less
C-56, An Act to amend the Employment Ins ...
Employment insurance
Government bills
Self-employed workers
Michel Bédard - 16:39
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:39
...More
Yes, and it'll have an impact on the cost.
Why you have to wait 12 months for coverage is also policy issue.
Oui, et cela aura une incidence sur le coût.
Le fait de devoir attendre 12 mois avant d'être protégé est elle aussi une question de principe.
...Less
C-56, An Act to amend the Employment Ins ...
Employment insurance
Government bills
Self-employed workers
Michel Bédard - 16:39
CPC (SK)
Ed Komarnicki (Souris—Moose Mountain)
2009-12-10 16:39
...More
And it'll affect the actual numbers?
Et tout cela aura une incidence sur les chiffres réels?
...Less
C-56, An Act to amend the Employment Ins ...
Employment insurance
Government bills
Self-employed workers
Michel Bédard - 16:39
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