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Minutes of Proceedings

45th Parliament, 1st Session
Meeting 17
Thursday, December 4, 2025, 8:15 a.m. to 10:25 a.m.
Televised
Presiding
Charles Sousa, Chair (Liberal)

Library of Parliament
• Martin Auger, Analyst
• Andrés León, Analyst
• Hon. David J. McGuinty, Minister of National Defence
Communications Security Establishment
• Caroline Xavier, Chief
• Julie Chassé, Chief Financial Officer
Department of National Defence
• Stefanie Beck, Deputy Minister
• Stephen Kelsey, Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, Canadian Armed Forces
• Marc Mes, Deputy Commissioner, Canadian Coast Guard Programs
• Jonathan Moor, Chief Financial Officer
• Heather Sheehy, Assistant Deputy Minister, Materiel
Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the committee commenced consideration of the Supplementary Estimates (B), 2025-26: Vote 1b under the Communications Security Establishment and Votes 1b, 5b and 10b under the Department of National Defence, referred to the committee on Friday, November 7, 2025.

The Chair called Vote 1b under the Communications Security Establishment.

The Minister made a statement and, with Stefanie Beck, Heather Sheehy, Marc Mes and Jonathan Moor, answered questions.

At 9:14 a.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 9:20 a.m., the meeting resumed.

LGen Stephen Kelsey, Marc Mes, Caroline Xavier, Stefanie Beck and Jonathan Moor answered questions.

By unanimous consent, it was agreed, — That Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay move his motion.

Motion

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay moved, — Whereas the committee was unable to hear the testimony of the Honourable Morris J. Fish, C.C., Q.C., or to question him, due to technical difficulties;

Whereas the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada did not appear before the committee despite the invitation extended to him and despite the importance of his testimony, as emphasized in the study motion adopted on October 23, 2025;

Whereas the transcripts of the meetings of November 20, November 27, and December 2, 2025, are still not available in both official languages;

That committee members be granted an additional week following the adoption of this motion to submit their proposed amendments to the clerk, and that clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-11 be postponed until Parliament returns in January 2026.

Debate arose thereon.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 9; NAYS: 0.

Motion

James Bezan moved, — That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), the committee requests the Department of National Defence to table the full, unredacted Memorandum of Understanding with the Province of Ontario concerning the implementation of the provisions contained in Bill C-11, and that the Memorandum of Understanding be tabled with the committee no more than five days after the passage of this motion.

Debate arose thereon.

At 9:41 a.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 9:41 a.m., the meeting resumed.

Amendment

Sherry Romanado moved, — That the motion be amended by replacing the words "the full unredacted" with the words ", in accordance with the Access to Information Act, the full" and by replacing the words “no more than five days” with the words "as soon as possible”.

Debate arose thereon.

Subamendment

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay moved, — That the amendment be amended by replacing the words “as soon as possible” with the words “no more than five days”.

Debate arose thereon.

At 9:50 a.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 9:51 a.m., the meeting resumed.

By unanimous consent, the subamendment was withdrawn.

Subamendment

Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay moved, — That the amendment be amended by replacing the words “as soon as possible after the passage of this motion” with the words “before January 15, 2026”.

The question was put on the subamendment of Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 9; NAYS: 0.

The question was put on the amendment of Sherry Romanado, as amended, and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 9; NAYS: 0.

The question was put on the motion, as amended, and it was agreed to, by a show of hands: YEAS: 9; NAYS: 0.

The motion, as amended, read as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(1)(a), the committee requests the Department of National Defence to table, in accordance with the Access to Information Act, the full Memorandum of Understanding with the Province of Ontario concerning the implementation of the provisions contained in Bill C-11, and that the Memorandum of Understanding be tabled with the committee before January 15, 2026.

By unanimous consent, the Chair called Vote 1b under the Communications Security Establishment and Votes 1b, 5b and 10b under the Department of National Defence.

Vote 1b under the Communications Security Establishment and Votes 1b, 5b and 10b under the Department of National Defence carried on the following recorded division: YEAS: Viviane Lapointe, Chris Malette, Sherry Romanado, Tim Watchorn — 4; NAYS: Scott Anderson, James Bezan, Cheryl Gallant, Jeff Kibble — 4.

Whereupon, the Chair voted in the affirmative.

Accordingly, the votes were agreed to.

At 10:25 a.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Ariane Calvert
Clerk of the committee