JUST Committee Meeting

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Minutes of Proceedings

Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights (JUST)

45th Parliament, 1st Session

Meeting 14

Tuesday, December 9, 2025, 3:32 p.m. to Monday, January 26, 2026, 12:36 p.m.

Room 425, Wellington Building, 197 Sparks Street

Webcast

Presiding

James Maloney, Chair (Liberal)

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Members of the Committee present

Liberal

Conservative

Bloc Québécois

Rhéal Éloi Fortin

Acting Members present

• Sima Acan for Wade Chang (Liberal)

• Dean Allison for Amarjeet Gill (Conservative)

• Carol Anstey for Andrew Lawton (Conservative)

• Burton Bailey for Larry Brock (Conservative)

• Patrick Bonin for Rhéal Éloi Fortin (Bloc Québécois)

• John Brassard for Larry Brock (Conservative)

• Frank Caputo for Amarjeet Gill (Conservative)

• Maggie Chi for Wade Chang (Liberal)

• Connie Cody for Amarjeet Gill (Conservative)

• Marianne Dandurand for Anju Dhillon (Liberal)

• Garnett Genuis for Larry Brock (Conservative)

• Tamara Kronis for Amarjeet Gill (Conservative)

• Leslyn Lewis for Larry Brock (Conservative)

• Jacob Mantle for Andrew Lawton (Conservative)

• Christine Normandin for Rhéal Éloi Fortin (Bloc Québécois)

• Anna Roberts for Larry Brock (Conservative)

• Cathay Wagantall for Andrew Lawton (Conservative)

Other Members present

• Chak Au (Conservative)

• David Bexte (Conservative)

• Kelly Block (Conservative)

• Steven Bonk (Conservative)

• Marc Dalton (Conservative)

• John-Paul Danko (Liberal)

• Ted Falk (Conservative)

• Harb Gill (Conservative)

• Sukhman Gill (Conservative)

• Laila Goodridge (Conservative)

• Michael Guglielmin (Conservative)

• Aaron Gunn (Conservative)

• Emma Harrison (Liberal)

• Kurt Holman (Conservative)

• Lori Idlout (NDP)

• Grant Jackson (Conservative)

• Tamara Jansen (Conservative)

• Jamil Jivani (Conservative)

• Iqra Khalid (Liberal)

• Ned Kuruc (Conservative)

• Melissa Lantsman (Conservative)

• Stéphane Lauzon (Liberal)

• Philip Lawrence (Conservative)

• Costas Menegakis (Conservative)

• Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner (Conservative)

• Jonathan Rowe (Conservative)

• Kristina Tesser Derksen (Liberal)

• Tako Van Popta (Conservative)

• Arnold Viersen (Conservative)

• Cathay Wagantall (Conservative)

• Chris Warkentin (Conservative)

In attendance

House of Commons

• Ariane Calvert, Procedural Clerk

• Christine Holke, Procedural Clerk

• Alexie Labelle, Legislative Clerk

• Jacques Maziade, Legislative Clerk

• Grant McLaughlin, Procedural Clerk

• Jean-François Pagé, Procedural Clerk

• Nancy Vohl, Procedural Clerk

• Andrew Wilson, Procedural Clerk

• Nellie Winters, Legislative Clerk

Library of Parliament

• Lyne Casavant, Analyst

• Iryna Zazulya, Analyst

Bill C-9, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (hate propaganda, hate crime and access to religious or cultural places)

Witnesses

Department of Justice

• Kristen Ali, Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section

• Joanna Wells, Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section

• Marianne Breese, Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, October 1, 2025, the committee resumed consideration of Bill C-9, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (hate propaganda, hate crime and access to religious or cultural places).

Larry Brock moved, — That to improve public safety in our communities and to protect Canadians from repeat and violent offenders, the committee (a) immediately prioritize the consideration of Bill C-14, the bail and sentencing reform act and work together to report the bill to the House at the earliest opportunity; (b) sit through the winter adjournment to undertake meaningful consultations with victims, community leaders, police services and associations, and other relevant witnesses; and (c) pause consideration of Bill C-9 to make room on the agenda for Bill C-14.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The Chair declares the motion out of order on the basis that it is not relevant to the clause-by-clause consideration.

Whereupon, Larry Brock appealed the decision of the Chair.

The question: "Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?" was put and the decision was sustained on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Wade Chang, Anju Dhillon, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio — 5;

NAYS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Amarjeet Gill, Andrew Lawton — 4.

The witnesses answered questions.

The committee resumed its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

The committee resumed clause-by-clause consideration on Clause 4 of the Bill.

Rhéal Éloi Fortin moved, — That Bill C-9, in Clause 4, be amended by replacing line 15 on page 1 to line 6 on page 2 with the following:

“ing, in any public place, a symbol that is principally used by, or principally associated with, a listed entity, as defined in subsection 83.‍01(1).”

Debate arose thereon.

Larry Brock moved, — That the committee proceed to the consideration of Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Youth Criminal Justice Act and the National Defence Act (bail and sentencing).

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The Chair declares the motion out of order on the basis that it is not relevant to the clause-by-clause consideration.

Whereupon, Larry Brock appealed the decision of the Chair.

The debate continued.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Rhéal Éloi Fortin and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin — 1;

NAYS: Roman Baber, Wade Chang, Anju Dhillon, Amarjeet Gill, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio, Andrew Lawton, Anna Roberts — 8.

Anthony Housefather moved, — That Bill C-9, in Clause 4, be amended by replacing, in the English version, lines 1 and 2 on page 2 with the following:

“(b) the Nazi Hakenkreuz or the Nazi double Sig-Rune, also known as”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Anthony Housefather and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Wade Chang, Anju Dhillon, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Amarjeet Gill, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio, Andrew Lawton — 9;

NAYS: — 0.

Andrew Lawton moved, — That Bill C-9, in Clause 4, be amended

(a) by adding after line 3 on page 2 the following:

“(b.1) the communist symbol known as the hammer and sickle; or”

(b) by replacing line 5 on page 2 with the following:

“scribed in paragraph (a), (b) or (b.1) that it is likely to be”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Andrew Lawton and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Amarjeet Gill, Andrew Lawton — 4;

NAYS: Wade Chang, Anju Dhillon, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio — 5.

Larry Brock moved, — That Bill C-9, in Clause 4, be amended by deleting lines 4 to 6 on page 2.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Larry Brock and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Amarjeet Gill, Andrew Lawton — 4;

NAYS: Wade Chang, Anju Dhillon, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio — 5.

Roman Baber moved, — That Bill C-9, in Clause 4, be amended by replacing line 6 on page 2 with the following:

“a symbol described in paragraph (a) or (b).”

Debate arose thereon.

At 4:51 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 5:00 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

At 5:17 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 115(5), the meeting was suspended.

At 6:29 p.m., the meeting resumed.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Roman Baber and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Wade Chang, Anju Dhillon, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Amarjeet Gill, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio, Andrew Lawton — 9;

NAYS: — 0.

At 6:35 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 6:42 p.m., the meeting resumed.

Rhéal Éloi Fortin moved, — That Bill C-9, in Clause 4, be amended

(a) by adding after line 12 on page 2 the following:

“(1.1) Paragraph 319(3)(b) of the Act is repealed.

(1.2) Paragraph 319(3.1)(b) of the Act is repealed.”

(b) by replacing line 19 on page 2 with the following:

“journalism, education or art, that is not con‐”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Rhéal Éloi Fortin and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Wade Chang, Anju Dhillon, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio — 5;

NAYS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Amarjeet Gill, Andrew Lawton — 4.

Andrew Lawton moved, — That Bill C-9, in Clause 4, be amended by adding after line 2 on page 3 the following:

“(6.1) Nothing in this section is to be interpreted or applied so as to interfere with the freedom of expression or the freedom of religion.”

Debate arose thereon.

At 7:45 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 8:06 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

At 9:50 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 10:02 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

Andrew Lawton moved, — That the committee proceed to the consideration of Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Youth Criminal Justice Act and the National Defence Act (bail and sentencing).

The question was put on the motion and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Amarjeet Gill, Andrew Lawton — 4;

NAYS: Wade Chang, Anju Dhillon, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio — 5.

The debate continued.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The Chair declares that Mr. Jivani used unparliamentary language.

Whereupon, Andrew Lawton appealed the decision of the Chair.

The debate continued.

At 11:26 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 8:36 a.m., on Thursday, December 11, 2025, the meeting resumed.

The witnesses answered questions.

The committee resumed its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

The committee resumed clause-by-clause consideration on Clause 4 of the Bill.

The committee resumed consideration of the amendment of Andrew Lawton, — That Bill C-9, in Clause 4, be amended by adding after line 2 on page 3 the following:

“(6.1) Nothing in this section is to be interpreted or applied so as to interfere with the freedom of expression or the freedom of religion.”

The question was put on the motion and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Amarjeet Gill, Andrew Lawton — 4;

NAYS: Maggie Chi, Anju Dhillon, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio — 5.

The debate continued.

Leslyn Lewis moved, — That the committee proceed to the consideration of Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Youth Criminal Justice Act and the National Defence Act (bail and sentencing).

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The Chair declares that, since the same motion had already been rejected, an identical dilatory motion could not be proposed again.

Whereupon, Andrew Lawton appealed the decision of the Chair.

Larry Brock moved, — That the amendment be amended by replacing the words “freedom of expression or the freedom of religion” with the words:

“(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

(d) freedom of association.”. 

Debate arose thereon.

At 9:50 a.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 10:23 a.m., the meeting resumed.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The Chair declares that, since the same motion had already been rejected, an identical dilatory motion could not be proposed again.

Whereupon, Larry Brock appealed the decision of the Chair.

The debate continued.

Jacob Mantle moved, — That, by unanimous consent, the committee proceed to the consideration of Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Youth Criminal Justice Act and the National Defence Act (bail and sentencing).

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The Chair declares that M.P. Jacob Mantle is neither a member of the committee nor a substitute, and therefore cannot propose a motion.

Whereupon, Andrew Lawton appealed the decision of the Chair.

The question: "Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?" was put and the decision was sustained on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Sima Acan, Anju Dhillon, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio — 5;

NAYS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Amarjeet Gill, Andrew Lawton — 4.

At 10:31 a.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 10:34 a.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The Chair declares that only committee members or their substitutes may raise points of order.

Larry Brock moved, — That, to improve public safety in our communities and to protect Canadians from repeat and violent offenders, the committee, a) immediately prioritize the consideration of Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Youth Criminal Justice Act and the National Defence Act (bail and sentencing) and work together to report the bill to the House at the earliest opportunity, b) sit through the winter adjournment to undertake meaningful consultations with victims, community leaders, police services and associations and other relevant witnesses, and c) pause consideration of Bill C-9, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (hate propaganda, hate crime and access to religious or cultural places) to make room on the agenda for Bill C-14.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The Chair declares that it is not possible to move a point of order.

At 10:53 a.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 10:54 a.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

At 11:18 a.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 11:29 a.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

At 12:05 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 12:21 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

At 1:18 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 1:32 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

At 1:56 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 115(5), the meeting was suspended.

At 4:06 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

At 4:48 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 4:55 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

At 5:08 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 11:17 a.m., on Monday, January 26, 2026, the meeting resumed.

The witnesses answered questions.

The committee resumed its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

The committee resumed clause-by-clause consideration on Clause 4 of the Bill.

The committee resumed consideration of the amendment of Andrew Lawton, — That Bill C-9, in Clause 4, be amended by adding after line 2 on page 3 the following:

“(6.1) Nothing in this section is to be interpreted or applied so as to interfere with the freedom of expression or the freedom of religion.”

The committee resumed consideration of the subamendment of Larry Brock, — That the amendment be amended by replacing the words “freedom of expression or the freedom of religion” with the words:

“(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

(d) freedom of association.”. 

The debate continued.

Motion

At 12:01 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 12:18 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The debate continued.

Motion

By unanimous consent, Patricia Lattanzio moved, — That the committee pause clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-9, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (hate propaganda, hate crime and access to religious or cultural places); that the committee allocate three meetings to the consideration of Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Youth Criminal Justice Act and the National Defence Act (bail and sentencing), beginning at its next meeting; that the committee not adjourn its third meeting on Bill C-14 until clause-by-clause consideration of the bill is complete; and that at the meeting following the completion of clause-by-clause of Bill C-14, the committee resume clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-9.

Debate arose thereon.

Amendment

Andrew Lawton moved, — That the motion be amended by adding between the words “beginning at its next meeting” and “that the committee not adjourn its third meeting on Bill C-14 until clause-by-clause consideration of the bill is complete” the following: “and that one of those meetings be the appearance of the Minister of Justice”.

At 12:24 p.m., the meeting was suspended.

At 12:33 p.m., the meeting resumed.

The question was put on the amendment of Andrew Lawton and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Wade Chang, Anju Dhillon, Rhéal Éloi Fortin, Amarjeet Gill, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio, Andrew Lawton — 9;

NAYS: — 0.

After debate, the question was put on the motion, as amended, and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Roman Baber, Larry Brock, Wade Chang, Anju Dhillon, Amarjeet Gill, Anthony Housefather, Patricia Lattanzio, Andrew Lawton — 8;

NAYS: Rhéal Éloi Fortin — 1.

The motion, as amended, read as follows:

That the committee pause clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-9, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (hate propaganda, hate crime and access to religious or cultural places); that the committee allocate three meetings to the consideration of Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Youth Criminal Justice Act and the National Defence Act (bail and sentencing), beginning at its next meeting; and that one of those meetings be the appearance of the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada; that the committee not adjourn its third meeting on Bill C-14 until clause-by-clause consideration of the bill is complete; and that at the meeting following the completion of clause-by-clause of Bill C-14, the committee resume clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-9.

It was agreed, — That the members of the committee submit all of their proposed amendments to Bill C-14, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Youth Criminal Justice Act and the National Defence Act (bail and sentencing) to the clerk no later than noon on Monday, February 2, 2026.

At 12:36 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Jean-François Lafleur

Clerk of the committee