:
I call this meeting to order.
Welcome to meeting number 23 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. Today's meeting is taking place in the hybrid format that we are now becoming used to.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on October 27, 2020, the committee is resuming its study on a strategy for commemorations in the 21st century.
I'd like to welcome all the witnesses who have taken the time to join us today.
The meeting today is broken up into two hours. In the first hour, we're going to be meeting with Department of Veterans Affairs officials. I will introduce all of you and explain the second hour as well. Then we'll come back to give you an opportunity for opening remarks.
First off, I'll introduce Mr. Rick Christopher, assistant deputy minister, strategic policy and commemoration; retired Colonel Michael Pearson, director, commemoration operations; and Paul Thomson, director general, commemoration division.
We'll be joined in the second hour by the Royal Canadian Legion, from which we have Mr. Steven Clark, national executive director.
Mr. Christopher will start us off in the first hour.
You have five minutes for your opening remarks.
[Translation]
Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. It is a pleasure to be here today.
[English]
I would like to begin by acknowledging that the land from which Paul and I are talking to you is the traditional and unceded territory of the Abegweit Mi'kmaq first nation.
On this day 104 years ago, at 3:45 a.m., the 27th Canadian infantry battalion advanced over an open plain under heavy shelling towards the town of Fresnoy, France. While most of the battalion was stopped short of the objective, Lieutenant Robert Combe led five men across the line. Using his opponents' own grenades, he cleared the trench and captured 80 enemy soldiers. Once his position was secured by reinforcements, Lieutenant Combe continued to advance until he was killed by an enemy sniper. He had been in France for two weeks.
Lieutenant Combe was laid to rest in the field cemetery at Acheville, France, which was later destroyed in the fighting. His name, along with the names of 11,284 other Canadian soldiers with no known graves, is inscribed on the Vimy Memorial.
I've told you this story because it is our privilege and obligation to continue the sacred tradition of remembering and honouring all those who have served and given so much to Canada and Canadians.
[Translation]
This has become much more challenging during the past year. The pandemic has continued to test the mettle of all Canadians, including veterans and their families, members of the Canadian Forces and the RCMP. The Department of Veterans Affairs and many organizations that support veterans have shown their resilience and flexibility by adjusting their approach in the face of the pandemic. I am proud of what we have accomplished.
[English]
In May 2020, we marked the 75th anniversary of the liberation of the Netherlands and the end of the Second World War in Europe. An overseas delegation was planned, including the participation of a veteran delegation at a number of ceremonies in Europe. Sadly, this had to be postponed to a later date.
However, to recognize this important anniversary, we produced a virtual ceremony. The video received over 125,000 views on Facebook. We also reached out to schools, youth and community groups across Canada and distributed bilingual learning resources with a focus on the liberation of the Netherlands.
For the first time in history, in 2020, Veterans' Week was held virtually. Through livestreaming ceremonies, online learning resources, Faces of Freedom podcasts, and streaming videos of the Kipnes Lantern and the virtual poppy drop, we were able to bring Canadians together.
The candlelight tribute ceremony, which also takes place every year during Veterans' Week, was held virtually. The video featured veterans in long-term care facilities across Canada and was viewed over 64,000 times.
In March, we highlighted the contribution of women in uniform on our social media channels. We ran a campaign that focused on sharing the stories of more than a dozen women veterans from diverse backgrounds during the “They proudly served” series. This sparked meaningful conversations about their experiences in the Canadian Armed Forces.
One of our objectives is to educate youth to ensure that they continue to carry the torch of remembrance. Previously, youth representatives were an important part of our overseas delegations for significant anniversaries. We have had to find new ways to keep our youth connected and engaged.
The commemoration division's learning unit has connected with over 57,000 educators and youth leaders interested in receiving our learning materials. We continue to send information to educator partners on new materials, events and anniversaries related to remembrance throughout the year, so that they can be shared with young Canadians.
[Translation]
The Minister of Veterans Affairs awarded commendations virtually this year to 67 recipients. These are usually awarded in person to individuals who have contributed in an exemplary manner to the care and well-being of veterans or to the remembrance of the contributions, sacrifices and achievements of veterans.
[English]
Last year, our commemorative partnership program approved over $1.6 million for 158 projects across the country. The department continued to support organizations with initiatives that honour those who served in Canada during times of war, military conflict and peace.
For example, the program funded the Niagara Military Museum's exhibit on the Black military history of Niagara. The exhibit featured personal stories of service from various conflicts, including the First and Second World Wars, the Korean War, and Afghanistan. The project included online materials, study guides and fact sheets, and has travelled to a number of schools across the region.
I want to take this opportunity to provide the committee with our vision of the future of commemoration. The department developed a 10-year commemoration strategic plan in partnership with the ministerial advisory group on commemorations. This plan outlines how we will help Canadians understand how service advances peace and global security, inspire Canadians to actively recognize the services of sacrifices of all who serve, and preserve memorials and grave markers in a sustainable and dignified way.
Through 2021, the department will consult with veterans and other Canadians to seek their views on our approach and hear their ideas on how best to remember Canadian military missions and recognize those who have served our country in war and in peace.
At Veterans Affairs Canada, despite the pandemic, we are continuing to connect with Canadians in new ways to ensure we recognize our veterans, their sacrifices and their service to our country. We are using these new approaches, adopted out of necessity, to change the way we honour our past and commemorate in the future.
Thank you.
This is just to flag the fact that our focus on younger veterans and more recent conflicts is not at the expense of our work with respect to the First World War, the Second World War and the older, traditional milestones. We are expanding our scope. We are not changing the key things we do for the First World War and the Second World War. We're just expanding.
As Rick said, one of the key themes or ideas that we had in our strategic plan for our more recent conflicts and younger veterans was to focus on these regions, so we do five-year cycles of regions, including Canada. Whether it's the Middle East one year and Asia, Africa and the Americas, including Canada, the next, our purpose is to recognize, acknowledge and inform Canadians about the service and sacrifice of younger veterans.
Going back to an earlier question with regard to PTSD, I think one of the key roles that commemoration can play is to help younger veterans accept and embrace their identity as veterans and validate their service and sacrifice. We can contribute in this way to veteran well-being and facilitate their transition, whether they're transitioning from being a CAF member to being a civilian member of society or just being recognized and feeling validated within their own communities for their contribution, service and sacrifice. That's a role we can play and are playing with regard to our veterans.
My regards to my colleagues and our witnesses.
It is very kind of you to take part in this exercise.
My first question is for Mr. Christopher.
Mr. Christopher, I would like to talk to you about financial support for overseas memorial sites. My office has received a request for financial support for the restoration of the Canadian memorial at Mont-des-Cats. Although it is in France and managed by a non-profit organization in France, of course, the memorial actively commemorates the participation of French Canadian soldiers in the Great War.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the commemorative partnership program was established to assist organizations undertaking remembrance initiatives. The Veterans Affairs Canada website states that the program can provide funding to organizations in Canada and abroad. However, I did some digging and found information that the program has, until recently, excluded foreign recipients.
As a first step, can you confirm that the program does in fact provide funding for Canadian commemorative sites such as the Mont-des-Cats memorial?
:
Thank you so much, Chair, and thanks so much to all of you for this presentation.
I'd like to say right off the top that I want to thank the Veterans Affairs staff in the Kirkland Lake office for the the incredible work they do. They do really important work for veterans and, to me, their professionalism and their dedication are very inspiring.
I would also like to say that I think we're in a very difficult time right now because of COVID, which has really interrupted many of the efforts of Legions and of commemorations. I think we have to really be aware of that and try to bring this back when we're coming out of COVID.
I'd like to say first off that having been at the 75th anniversary of the battle of Italy, and also in Normandy, I was incredibly moved by the welcome we received and the way the events were handled. I was at the dedication of the bridge in Caen in commemoration of Captain George Gilbert Reynolds. The response of people in Caen when they saw that we were there to commemorate a Canadian was incredibly emotional. People really felt that connection.
The reality is that we're not going to have very many more trips with the veterans, if any at all, because of their age. How do you see us maintaining these connections that we've established in the Netherlands, Holland, Belgium and Italy—connections that we've built up over the years with these visits with the veterans? How do we maintain those connections?
:
First, I'll say that it was very disappointing, I think, to veterans who were slated to go to the Netherlands 75th pilgrimage. It was very disappointing to staff, who had done a lot of work and were very much looking forward to this. I will say that for this I still have some hope, maybe not for this year, but for the following year, understanding that people are getting older and have challenges.
We're there at the invitation of these groups, and certainly in terms of current discussions they're obviously taken up with other issues right now in these countries, but as we go forward, as Paul mentioned earlier, we're continuing to make sure we're not disengaging from or failing to commemorate the more traditional veterans. We will continue to have smaller visits, I think, to some of these areas, making sure we're engaging at the grassroots level with these organizations, because they are hosting us and we want to make sure we have strong ties to a number of these countries and a number of these organizations in these countries. We want to make sure we're maintaining those.
As we shift to veterans commemorations around the world, we will include Europe, for instance, and we will still commemorate the First World War and the Second World War, just in a different way.
:
If I can jump in, Mr. Chair, it's a very good question. Again, it just highlights the importance of ongoing consultation so we ensure that what we do resonates, makes a difference and recognizes younger veterans and their service and sacrifice.
We are going to continue to consult and make sure we are working that way. We are going to continue to ensure that they are part of how we construct these new commemorative activities. We're calling it a bit of co-creation, if you will. We're working with them as part of how these kinds of new things will happen.
As you know, the challenge is different. For traditional wars, it's easier. We're good at it because there was a start and an end to a conflict or war. It's a bit different with modern conflicts. We have to figure out how to better commemorate those and make them resonate with Canadians, but also how to make it work for those veterans and make sure we're doing the right thing by them as well.
I would encourage folks, committee members, if you haven't, to listen to the virtual panel we did. We did three, actually, but listen to the one from last Thursday night on digital remembrance. I think that's going to be an important facet for us going forward as well. We need to be where they are. We need to be on those digital channels we talked about earlier that those folks are on, to make sure we're resonating with them.
We have to get away from commemoration being a long ago and far away thing, and make sure it's also here and now, and relevant now. That's our challenge. We're learning and we're working, and we're iterating as we go.
:
Thank you, everyone. I apologize for missing your presentation.
I heard Mr. Casey's question and I really couldn't agree more. We're hearing and seeing a lot more interaction in community events.
I know COVID has changed it, but this past Remembrance Day we had a small event and I was absolutely amazed to see how many of our veterans came, from the Second World War and the Korean War. Some of them were very elderly, but they were still there. It was hard for our cadets to not be able to go and help them walk closer. I appreciate how these opportunities for us to remember are really challenged during this time.
At the last committee meeting, we heard from Caitlin Bailey, the executive director of the Vimy Foundation. She talked about the concern she had around overseas commemorations—that mentality of “if it's out of sight, it's out of mind”—and making sure Canada is proactive in providing sustainable funding for the maintenance of memorials.
I wonder if you could give us a bit of an update and tell us if VAC is committed to ensuring that sustainable funding is there for the maintenance and upkeep of overseas commemorations, which I know we all agree are so important for us in our international reputation.
I will leave it to you to decide who should answer.
:
Mr. Chair, I can start.
I absolutely agree, and as you can imagine, there are a number of challenges with having sites overseas. We have 14 sites. Two of them are national historic sites.
There are a number of organizations that we work with on a regular basis. Some of them do approach us on an ongoing basis for additional funding, whether that be for maintenance or interpretation. Some of these are ad hoc and some of them are more ongoing. For instance, if we look at the Juno Beach Centre, which is run by a non-governmental organization, we have an ongoing relationship in terms of funding for them.
For some of the others, though, such as if you're talking about the Vimy Foundation, we partner with them and provide funding, really to enhance the experience for people who are either interested in Vimy or visiting Vimy.
Maybe Paul can talk a bit about some of the ongoing projects we have with them.
:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you for the invitation to the Legion to appear before you today.
I am Steven Clark, national executive director. I have also served as the director of Canada's national Remembrance Day ceremony for 10 years, and have conceived and developed such initiatives as the virtual poppy drop projection on Centre Block and the virtual wall of honour and remembrance.
Commemoration of service and sacrifice is a mainstay of the Legion. Remembrance initiatives, whether they be large-scale events or quiet moments of personal reflection, all contribute to the collective reminiscence of a grateful nation.
While technological advances and societal trends and expectations have formed and transformed how we remember, the important who and why we remember remains forever constant.
From that first Armistice Day ceremony in the Commonwealth in 1919, people have continued to gather every year to pay their respects and thanks to the fallen. In 1921, 100 years ago this July, the Great War Veterans Association, the predecessor of the Royal Canadian Legion, adopted the poppy as the symbol of remembrance in Canada. Community cenotaph ceremonies and wearing the lapel poppy are important components of the visible expression of how we remember, and these will continue unabated.
As technology becomes more integrated into our lives, however, how we remember has seen an evolution, which complements but does not replace more traditional practices. In recent years, we have seen virtual ceremonies, albeit sometimes, of late, out of necessity.
In 2018, the Legion introduced the digital poppy for display on personal digital devices, social media platforms and e-communications. The highly successful tap-enabled “pay tribute” poppy boxes, trialled last year, will be expanded to 2,000 locations for the 2021 poppy campaign, and will complement the traditional method of poppy distribution and donation collection. Both the digital poppy and the pay tribute boxes provide a response to the trend of a cashless society, as these donations to support Canada’s veterans are made using a credit card or cellphone.
Innovation and a desire to bring remembrance to a younger demographic in an environment to which they are accustomed, led the Legion, in 2019, to partner with Fortnite, an online gaming platform, to develop and offer a virtual remembrance island. On that island, players experience First World War trenches, D-Day beaches, a Canadian military cemetery and the Vimy Ridge memorial. There is absolutely no fighting, and no weaponry or destruction, only the opportunity for a journey of remembrance.
In 2020, the island became a sequel and was expanded to include more Second World War locations and experiences, like the Dieppe Raid and Hill 70. Available only on November 11, players were encouraged to pause for two minutes of silence at 11 p.m., another way to connect with the gaming community on their terms. On that one day, in each of 2019 and 2020, over 15 million individuals visited remembrance island.
That connection with youth remains paramount. The Legion National Foundation’s poster and literary contest sees 100,000 students nationwide every year show what remembrance means to them, through their artistic expression and literary composition. That contest has evolved over its decades-long existence to include a video component in some locations.
Community engagement is also essential. We have seen a renewed interest by corporate Canada in sharing the remembrance message. Already, for the 2021 poppy campaign, the Legion has almost 100 corporate partners who have committed to work nationally or with their local branches to promote remembrance to their employees and customers.
That community engagement can be in various forms. For the 2020 remembrance period, the Legion engaged national landmark locations across Canada to create a visual display of remembrance on a grand scale. Iconic places like the CN Tower, Niagara Falls, city of Ottawa and Toronto signs, the Calgary Tower, the Olympic cauldron in Vancouver, the Canada Place Sails of Light, the Vancouver Science World dome and others were illuminated in red, representing the poppy, creating yet another reminder of our pledge to never forget.
It has been said that human memory is adaptive, and that what we learn and remember is goal-oriented. Our goal is to ensure that society’s memories are tuned to remembrance and the importance of remembering our fallen.
We need to continue to engage Canada’s current and next generations as well as communities throughout all reaches of the country. We need to continue to develop innovative ways to weave the remembrance experience into existing behaviours while still respecting the traditions of the past, but whatever initiatives evolve, remembering the service and sacrifice of the fallen remains sacrosanct.
Mr. Chair, the Legion thanks you for the opportunity to participate in this study.
It's nice to see you again, Steven. Thank you for your presentation. It is extremely important.
Earlier in the hour, we had the department sharing some information. Something that hit me really hard and that one should know—when you hear the numbers, it's scary—is that 94% of the people being served today are modern-day veterans. I know the World War I, World War II and Korean War veterans are dying off, but it's so hard to listen to that and to see numbers so big.
Steven, I can't say enough for the work that Legion members do, and the Legion itself does to help veterans and their families, and to help communities. They're out there all the time, supporting and finding ways.... It's as simple as helping someone fill in an application or whatnot. It's just outstanding.
One area I notice, and many Legion members will share with me, is that it's difficult to bring in more modern-day veterans to the Legion.
Maybe you could talk about that a little. The vision plan that we've brought forward talks about how we bring in Afghan veterans and recognize them. How do we bring in more recognition of women's participation, LGBTQ2 members and indigenous peoples?
What could you share with us about how we can do that? What are we doing, what are you doing, and what can we do to continue that recognition?
Thank you, Mr. Clark, for being here with us today.
Back in 2017 I was incredibly honoured to provide veteran Gordie Bannerman a replica of the monument that was built in Toronto commemorating those who fought in the Italian campaign in World War II. He was 95, and I was just incredibly happy to be with him and his family.
One of the things I learned about him was that in his eighties he learned how to type on a computer so he could work alongside some of his younger family members to get his stories on the website so people could see, hear and read his story. I know VAC has now recognized them and they are also on the VAC website. Choosing this method of course allowed younger people, including his family members, to engage with his story, and I think that's so very powerful.
I'm wondering if you could talk about the importance of keeping those stories alive in this country. I know multiple organizations are doing things. I'm wondering, from the Legion's perspective, how you are working to support saving these stories so young people will hear them in the future.
:
Instead of “I love Mickey Mouse”, I would love to see the tail of a 737 WestJet lit up, or the Christmas train that has lights on the CP train. That's just an idea.
Secondly, we did so well at the Legions in York—Simcoe, in my riding, with bottle drives. I don't want to say we drink too much in York—Simcoe, but I think we would have won the contest.
Mr. Clark, I've had a couple of Legions reach out to me. They were very thankful for the funding they got, but they're reaching out now and saying, “Scot, if this COVID continues, it's just not enough.”
I just wondered if you could speak quickly to just how much some Legions that you know of.... Even though we had the funding, if this continues and they miss another year, how detrimental is that going to be to some of our Legions?
Thank you, Mr. Clark, for your testimony.
As our chair was smiling and talking about Fortnite, I was texting my son. He's in the game design business, and so are his friends. I was asking if they developed that or if they took part in that, because one of his friends actually worked on Fortnite, so I was very proud, actually, as you were mentioning that. I did not know that about it, although I know that a ton of work goes on in terms of remembrance.
In my short period of time here, I want to speak about a couple of things. I am a grandson of two World War II veterans. Neither of them spoke of their service, because it was too traumatic. Only a handful of years ago, almost 15 years after he passed, I learned of one grandfather's participation in the “devil's brigade”. He was one of the very first special forces members and taught small-arms combat.
Mr. Clark, the work you do is so important. Was the Legion included in any funding in this most recent budget?
Mr. Clark, thank you so much. As the sole witness for an hour, with 12 MPs firing rapid questions at you, you're doing remarkably well. Thank you for your lucidity, and moreover, for your incredible work.
At one point in your testimony you raised the alarm that if we don't have Legions and branches, where are we?
I see the work of the Legions in Halifax: the Spryfield Legion, the Vimy Legion and the White Ensign Legion. The Vimy Legion provides the colour guard for our main Remembrance Day events. The Spryfield Legion has become a living room for the community there. The programs that support veterans are so important, with the extended family and all the benefits that brings. However, the Legions also facilitate remembrance, don't they? They carry the stories forward, whether it's in an oral tradition or with the stories of what's on the wall of the Legions, or whether it is turning up to be the colour guard at important events.
We're seeing the membership numbers fall. I'm thinking particularly of the White Ensign Legion. They were trying everything, having barbeque nights and bringing in different kinds of music, trying to recruit younger members to keep the good work going. They were having a very difficult time with that. That's not my real question.
If you have any secrets for us on how we can increase youth membership in our local Legions, I would love to hear that from you, or how we can help, if there was a program that VAC could undertake that could help in some way.
If you have an answer to that, that's great, but I really want to talk to you about physical memorials. For example, at the Spryfield Legion, there is a granite memorial. I don't know the story of who paid for it or how it's maintained, but there are a number of memorials around Halifax, as there are in towns and cities across the country, that have cropped up organically.
Famously, in Halifax, as I mentioned at our last meeting of the committee, there is the HMCS Bonaventure anchor. A very plucky crew of survivors of the HMCS Kootenay disaster had it renovated for the 75th anniversary of Kootenay, but it was very unclear about whose responsibility it was and who had to pay for it. In the end, it all worked out, but it wasn't clear.
I wonder whether there is any insight you might give us on how we can better care for those smaller memorials. The glamorous ones are in the news on Remembrance Day, but I'm asking about those smaller community monuments.
Thank you.
:
I know that a number of years ago there was a national repository of memorials across the country that was gathering pictures and information so that people would know where they were and who was maintaining them or had the responsibility for it. I do not know the state of play for that repository, or whether it is still valid or updated.
With regard to community memorials, they could be Legion owned or non-Legion owned, but regardless of whether they are or not, if there is a local Legion branch, they are able to financially support the maintenance of those memorials should they fall into a state of disrepair or need things done. It's very important that we do that, so whether or not there's ownership, the Legion stands ready to assist if required.
Perhaps I could just quickly go back to your original comment about how you draw younger people in. It's a challenge. I look at the innovative ways in which some branches have done this.
For example, the Legion branch from Fredericton turned one of their meeting rooms into a gaming centre. They filled it with Xboxes and large-screen TVs, and being a community close to CFB Gagetown, it drew in those individuals, so they were able to learn what the Legion can do for them. Whether they are Legion members or not doesn't really matter, as long as they know that the Legion is there when they do need the Legion.
:
That's a good sentiment to end on.
I want to thank you, Mr. Clark. That was definitively yeoman's work to get through that whole hour by yourself.
I represent the riding of Cambridge, the home of the great painter, David Sopha, and the portraits of honour. I'm sure you've had an opportunity to meet him and see his work. He of course is struggling right now, as he's fighting stage 4 cancer, but if there's any way to include him in your conversations about Remembrance Day events this coming Remembrance Day, I'd be happy to have that conversation.
I thank my colleagues for their indulgence there.
Thank you very much, Mr. Clark, for being with us.
For the committee, I have two quick items before we are dismissed.
We have a proposed budget in the amount of $2,500 for our next study on service dogs for veterans. Are we good to adopt that budget? Are there any objections?
There are no objections.
Also, speaking of that, we need to set up a deadline for witnesses. What I'm suggesting is that it be no later than Thursday, May 6, at 4 p.m., which is this Thursday. Is that enough time for folks to get their witnesses in? We can move that a bit, but we have to move to get those witnesses ready to go. Are there any objections to the May 6 proposal?