:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for the invitation to appear before this committee to assist with your deliberations on Bill .
I have with me today, as you heard from the chair, Mary Campbell, who is the director general of the corrections and criminal justice directorate at the public safety department.
[Translation]
The Bill before you today is important. It fulfils the commitment I believe all of us share to protect the safety and security of Canadians and in particular to protect the safety and security of Canada's most valuable asset — our youth.
[English]
This is the type of important work that all of us who undertake to become elected officials would like to see us working on. We want to make a difference in people's lives, to make sure that men, women, and children who we represent are safe and secure in their day-to-day lives. That's exactly what this kind of bill does.
[Translation]
The bill introduces much needed reform to strengthen the National Sex Offender Registry and the DNA Databank. It is based on extensive consultations with law enforcement officials, provincial and territorial officials and victims' rights organizations.
[English]
We do have, in dealing with this legislation, the opportunity to benefit from the track record of the existing registry, of course, and the track records of registries in various provinces.
In particular, I look at my province of Ontario, where David Turnbull, the Solicitor General, brought in a sex offender registry well before the federal one, and it in fact includes some of the changes we are proposing here, including mandatory inclusion. That has worked well in practice, so that gives us an opportunity to have seen some of these provisions in practice. That helps us out in our considerations even though, of course, that registry predates the federal registry.
I know we can work together here in a spirit of cooperation and common purpose to make sure that the registry is truly an effective tool for the police in investigating and preventing serious sexual crimes. That's what the amendments in front of us seek to do. As honourable members of the committee are aware, the sex offender identification registry act proposes several fundamental reforms to the present legislation.
These include, firstly, the automatic inclusion in the registry of all individuals found guilty of sex offences. Right now, as you know, it's necessary for a judge to order, on application by the crown, the inclusion of someone into the registry.
There may be debates about the range of numbers of those who are not included, but what is indisputable is that a significant number of people are not included. There are different reasons for that. Sometimes it's the result of a plea bargain. Often, we're told, it's simply a question of oversight. Busy crowns who are working through their stacks of files on a particular day omit, or forget, or don't think about the notion of actually asking for inclusion when they get the order from the judge.
That is something that would be addressed. As I said, it would be as it is in the Ontario legislation, where inclusion is automatic with conviction, so that problem will be solved with this legislation.
Another element is that mandatory DNA sampling will occur for convicted sex offenders who receive an automatic order to register on the national sex offender registry.
Another area is one that police and victims groups have asked for, and that is to permit the proactive use of the registry by the police to prevent, not just investigate, sexual offences.
Some of you know that there is a substantial element in the community out there that lobbies me, and perhaps many of you, on the notion that the sex offender registry should also include public access, not just police access. I have determined and the government has determined that this is perhaps not wise.
We believe the current protections, which leave the decision on the public release of information up to local police in those circumstances, are the appropriate approach. So we are not proposing that change, although some have asked for it.
As for the registration of offenders returning to Canada under the International Transfer of Offenders Act, we are now going to have it result in automatic registration if they are convicted abroad of sex offences and are returning to Canada at the end of their sentence or to complete their sentence in Canada. In either context, if they are returning, we're going to capture them.
The problem is, of course, that right now this is not the case. As we know with the changes in the world, some countries have a higher incidence of child sex offences. We're seeing child sex industries abroad. We're seeing increased tourism for that purpose. Some think they can escape the consequences of committing those kinds of offences abroad. We want to make sure that those consequences aren't escaped here and that the community is protected from people who represent that kind of risk.
In terms of the transfer, the legislation proposes that their inclusion would be automatic. It can be automatic because a decision on the transfer of an offender is one that is made by the Minister of Public Safety. That decision is obviously one that has a record, so there can be effective automatic inclusion.
The more challenging scenario is, of course, that of someone who is never transferred and never seeks a transfer, someone who completes their sentence in another country and who has a conviction that we may not even know about. Of course, the answer in this legislation is to create a requirement that they register and an offence for failure to register on their return to Canada. Obviously this will not be 100% foolproof, but it certainly creates a law that must be complied with, just like any other law, and it creates an opportunity to prosecute those individuals who don't comply.
Internationally, we have very good information-sharing with many of our partners in law enforcement, like Interpol and others. There is a vast degree of information-sharing that will help police to enforce this law if it comes into force. Certainly, I know that law enforcement is very supportive of this amendment.
An additional change that's being proposed is in the same vein but reciprocal: to require police notification to foreign or other Canadian police jurisdictions when high-risk registered sex offenders are travelling to another area. This speaks to our concern about sex tourism. Someone who's convicted here may decide to travel to another location to engage in the same unacceptable behaviour. This will create an obligation and an opportunity to protect young people abroad. We should be concerned not just with the consequences here in Canada, but also with the welfare of young people throughout the world.
Amendments to the National Defence Act are also included to ensure that the reforms apply to the military justice system, to those who are convicted of sex offences at court martial.
I believe the bill before us sends a strong message to all Canadians that their voices are being heard. Canadians want individuals who are found guilty of crimes to serve a sentence that reflects the severity of those crimes. They want to know that individuals who are guilty of serious sex crimes are properly identified in the community, because they realize that knowledge affords protection. It's important for the police to have all the tools they need to assist in assuring the community is protected. They know it's not enough to investigate crimes after they happen—they want to be able to assure community protection.
This will give Canadians a greater sense of safety in their homes, their streets, and their communities. They want to know that somebody is making an effort to keep their children safe, and they're looking to us to take action on this now. That's why I'm glad we're bringing this bill forward.
Since 2006 our government has taken action in a number of areas to tackle crime and make communities safer for everyone. We've cracked down on gangs and organized crime. We've come up with tough new sentencing rules, mandatory prison sentences for gun crimes, and the like. We've given police more tools and resources to do their jobs, and we're continuing to do that. We've introduced measures to tackle drug dealers and help our youth stay out of trouble with the law. We've increased funding for crime prevention. Prevention, crime reduction, increased enforcement, serious consequences—all these are essential elements of a comprehensive approach to making our communities safer and addressing crime.
We've taken steps to ensure that young people stay safe online. I know that members of this committee support these efforts to protect the safety and security of Canadians, and I'm confident that the provisions of Bill also have your support.
I look forward to working with members of this committee to see that this bill gets the speedy passage I believe it warrants.
I'm happy to take any questions--and let Mary answer all the hard ones.
:
On the issue of vehicle licence plate inclusion in the registry of vehicle descriptions, there are two legitimate perspectives. I think they're both legitimate. One is what you referred to, which addresses inclusion that the police say would be an aid to them. The other is the concern that by doing it through vehicle registration, you're casting the net potentially too wide.
Vehicle registration is not limited, and vehicle driving, as you know, is not limited, to the individual who's registered. Ownership is not limited to that. We are asking through these amendments to allow a more proactive use of the registry to prevent crimes from happening, meaning people may be stopped, asked what they're doing and the like, as part of police efforts to keep a community safe. You are extending that to potentially capture, in effect, people who are not the owners of vehicles.
Additionally, you are flagging for offenders that they have to register their vehicle and their vehicle description on a regular basis. So if somebody is a calculating sex offender, they may choose to ensure that their vehicle is, on paper, owned and registered by their mother or another family member, and thereby avoid the capture under the registration. Police already have access to drivers through licence information and to the sex offender registry in general. So that's the argument on the one side.
The legitimate argument on the other side, that you hear from law enforcement and others, is that the availability of that information consolidated in one place can be very helpful to them, that it may be able to, at the same time, in certain circumstances, allow them to deal with a situation quickly, while it develops.
I believe both of those arguments have merit. The decision I took in preparing the bill, having heard that evidence, being aware of it, being aware of those arguments on all sides, was not to include it. I understand that others on the committee may have a different view. I know that certainly the Conservative members of the committee have spoken to me strongly about their desire to have an amendment that would include vehicle information like that.
I'm quite fine with that. One of the roles of a parliamentary committee is to do that. This opportunity to deal with the bill clause-by-clause creates that opportunity, as I told those members, to bring forward an amendment like that if they believe it is important. The government is quite happy to have an amendment like that, if that is the will of the members of the committee. As I said, I know the government members, , , , have all been very proactive on advancing those issues with me, and have advanced that process.
That's available to you. That's how a parliamentary committee works. I don't think we should have waited another year to have that go into law, because you still haven't finished your report.
:
Well, it was a parliamentary review, not a ministerial review. That's the first point I'd like to make.
Second, as I indicated, my predecessor actually wrote to this committee asking that the review take place. That letter was dated November 13, 2007. I have right here what he said:
We are writing to request that the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security undertake a review of two important pieces of legislation: the Sex Offender Information Registration Act (SOIRA), and the DNA Identification Act.
So at this point it's already overdue. The minister is writing to remind the committee of its obligations, asking that the study take place.
As I said, on November 20, as a follow-up, Dave MacKenzie said at this committee,
Mr. Chair, I would just say to the member that we would like to have that as one of the couple of things we'd like to put forward to the committee. One is the DNA databank and the other is the sex offender information registry.
So you've got that right there as efforts by the government, through the parliamentary secretary, through the minister, to get this committee to do its work.
As for the management of affairs by the committee, as you know, the priorities are set by all members of the committee. The government is only a minority of those members. I know the government members were pushing for that study to happen sooner.
So I suggest you ask your predecessor on the committee and the other opposition members why other matters were studied.
Thank you to the minister and the officials for being here today.
This is an important piece of legislation. I'd like to concur with the minister that on more than one occasion this side did ask that this study be conducted, because we were well aware of the review period that was in the original legislation, not only in this bill but also on the DNA data bank.
Some of us on this side have been here a little bit longer, but we also dealt with other issues that were mandated by time, including the security certificates and so on.
The committee, for whatever reason, made its own decisions not to do this in a timely fashion, and I certainly wouldn't quarrel with that, but it has obviously resulted in some finger-pointing, which is not necessarily accurate.
Having said that, we do have the bill. I think it's a good bill and I think the minister has been very clear that amendments to the bill would, perhaps, be expected and would be accepted, coming from the committee. So I think what all of us need to do going forward is to make sure we have a very good bill that goes to the House.
I'd like to follow up a little bit on Mr. McColeman's comment about the automatic inclusion. Some of us on this side have perhaps had more dealings...but not only this side; I think Mr. Kania has had some dealings with folks in these incidents, both the victims and the perpetrators of the crime. I think most of us would agree that the automatic inclusion is so important, and in a broad sense, that the criminals who are sex offenders don't start at the top. They start at the bottom and work their way up. Some folks think that these are less than serious crimes, but they are the precursors to the more serious crimes. So automatic inclusion as a tool in the toolbox of the investigators is extremely important.
I'm wondering, Minister, if you could expand on any of those issues with respect to the importance of the automatic inclusion of the offences that are listed.
Mr. Minister, you're the Minister of Public Safety and you said that some of the work our committee has undertaken, since this review that you felt should have been done, is trivial and of a partisan nature. I'm wondering which work our committee has dealt with in the last two and one-half years that you would consider trivial. Is it Bill , to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act? Is it our work on contraband tobacco, the witness protection program, the study of security issues concerning the Minister of Foreign Affairs, our taser study, agri-chemicals and agri-retail, arming of the CBSA officers? Is it Bill , regarding emergency management? Is it Bill , DNA identification? I could go on.
It has been significant work that this parliamentary committee has dealt with, none of which has been trivial, all of which may be partisan to some degree. But I would argue that it is unfair for you to assess this committee's work as either trivial or partisan.
Because I know you can run out the clock with that statement I want to ask you: were you aware that our committee was in the final process of finishing our report, and actually we changed our agenda, when you introduced this legislation on June 1 so you would not take advantage of our interest and expertise in this area?
It was not one year away, as you just suggested in your testimony.