:
Good afternoon, Rob and members of the standing committee. Thank you for inviting us to make our presentation to your committee.
I'm going to give you some background on the National Aboriginal Veterans Association.
This organization wasn't formed by aboriginal veterans themselves; it was formed by government. At that time, Ron Irwin called me at home and asked if it was a good idea to have all the aboriginal veterans under one umbrella. I figured it was a good idea, so we went ahead and brought all the aboriginal groups into Ottawa and formed this organization. Before that, there was the National Indian Veterans Association, so we changed the name. We spent a week here changing the name to the National Aboriginal Veterans Association.
Also, we were incorporated at the national level, so we're incorporated federally, and we do get funding. So the first nations, Métis, non-status, and Inuit come under our umbrella. But as you're probably aware, they start breaking off. They are having their own organizations. It's pretty hard to keep them together.
Anyway, we do get funding from the federal interlocutor, very little funding, to have our AGM meeting and also a bit of administration. We have a newsletter—I didn't bring any copies along, but I should have—that I try to send out to people in Parliament on what we're doing.
We're also involved with the other aboriginal groups, such as the Legion, the Korea Veterans Association, and Betterness and Equalness for Veterans, which is an organization from Saskatoon that was formed to help veterans. Also, the Korea veterans do a lot of work for the veterans who are disabled, right across Canada.
We also constructed a monument. When we started this organization, we had three things in mind: a scholarship fund; the monument, which is in the park across from the Lord Elgin Hotel, in Confederation Park; and.... We'll be talking about this later on. Mr. MacPhee will be explaining some of the budgets.
We sent in a budget to finish that monument off. There's a photo that will go around. Take a look at the way it's supposed to be finished, and it's not. What we're asking for is to get it finished. Now it runs over $200,000 to get the plates on. Those plates on that monument are scenes of the First World War, the Second World War, the Korean War, and peacekeeping, which make the four corners.
We did get some money from the interlocutor to finish the lighting. If you go there at night, you'll see it's a nice monument. It's lit up. So we did get that done, but we're still asking for money to finish the monument.
My part of the job, after we got organized, was the monument, and that's what I did. I went around and raised funds for the monument. I think I wrote about 500 or 600 letters to different organizations. We got it finished through Heritage Canada to where it's at now.
But the other big thing is the scholarship fund. That was supposed to be under our control, but our name is not even mentioned now. I met the girl who's in charge of it now. I forget her name, but I met her in Victoria at a meeting and told her about this. We're not even mentioned, and it was our fund.
If you look back, there was $1 million given to start that fund. The mechanics of it were supposed to be that the interest on that money was to pay for the scholarships. Mind you, now it's the achievement foundation. It's a good fund. I'm not knocking it, because it's doing a lot for the aboriginal students. But it was supposed to be under our control—that's the problem—and it was supposed to be for aboriginal veterans, students, and their kids, running down the list. But it didn't happen. We're not even mentioned in it, so we lost that.
We're looking at maybe starting a new scholarship fund, but I know what it takes. I did the monument, and it took me two years to get it to where it is. There's a lot of work, especially if you don't have the funds and everything else that goes along with them.
So that's where we are right now with the scholarship fund.
The other thing is the contributions to the first nations or aboriginal veterans. They were given $20,000 last year or the year before, or $39 million all told for 1,800 veterans. If you recall, the aboriginal people are entrenched in the Constitution. We're still aboriginal people and we were left out. It's like everything else.
We have submissions in to government to get funding the same as the Hong Kong veterans and the merchant navy. That's fair. That's why I'm saying that: it's fair. If you didn't serve overseas, you didn't get the money; it was $15,000 for serving overseas, if you were in action, and $7,000 if you were here in Canada serving and ready to go. I think that's fair; for us, that was fair.
We never even got that. The Chinese and Japanese got the $20,000 also. The first nations people got the $20,000, and they had to jump through hoops to get it. They had to come from overseas directly into the reservation in order to get it.
I know that because there was a guy from northern Ontario who was married and had two kids, and he didn't qualify because he didn't go directly to the reserve after coming back from overseas—he was a Second World War guy. He phoned me right away, and I asked what was wrong. He told me he couldn't go, because he had kids. They didn't have any housing in the reserve, so he couldn't go. He stayed in Thunder Bay, and they refused him. That's the type of thing that was happening.
Why aren't we involved in this type of decision-making for veterans? I'm a veteran, and I don't like.... I just had a meeting here last week in town with the ombudsman. At least we have an ombudsman now to do some work for us, to speak to the DVA and to try to get our programs through— including for me; I had a hard time with the DVA. It's the system. It's changing now, but there's still a lot of work to be done so that people are treated equally.
That's not saying aboriginal veterans only. There are the other veterans also. I sit on some committees; I was president of the Korea veterans in Saskatoon and I know what's happening with some of our veterans, Second World War guys.
Anyway, they received $39 million for their veterans, just the first nations veterans. I would like to see some compensation for all aboriginal veterans. If just first nations veterans are going to receive it, that's discrimination, because we're entrenched in the Constitution. We're called aboriginal people--Métis, non-status, and Inuit. The government looks at us as aboriginal people. They gave $39 million to the first nations people. Why? Why weren't we included in that?
There's a lot more I could add, but I haven't got too much time.
Anyway, we have 20 recommendations. The Senate did a survey, right across Canada, and made some recommendations. I think there were 12 recommendations. We have 20.
You have those recommendations in your package, which was revised by us. Alastair will speak to that.
Also, the information came from the provinces. Maybe I didn't go far enough into that. We have people in every province--except one province in the Maritimes, either because the veterans don't want to join or we don't have that many aboriginal veterans there--and every territory, and they all had some input into these recommendations that Alastair is going to speak about.
That's all I have to say right now, unless you have any questions on what I've said.
:
Good afternoon, Chairman Anders and committee members.
I would like to thank you for inviting NAVA to be here today. l am honoured to be here beside Claude Petit, a Métis veteran, who at 16 years of age was in combat in Korea as a member of the Princess Patricia Canadian Light Infantry. It just stuns me when I read that, because at 16 most of us were looking forward to a driver's licence, not combat.
In considering the veterans health care review and the veterans independence program, the first and central need is to develop a trusting relationship between Veterans Affairs Canada and aboriginal veterans. A legacy of poor relations and broken promises forms the backdrop to contemporary initiatives. When aboriginal veterans return to civilian life, they face racism, discrimination, and federal policies driven by the Indian Act administration.
These veterans were never effectively informed of what was available for them, and this is well described in the Senate report you all have a copy of, “Aboriginal Soldiers After the Wars”. These experiences are the backdrop you must consider when you're thinking about health programs and other initiatives that involve aboriginal veterans. On a personal basis I want to tell you that I think it's shameful that aboriginal veterans, Métis, and non-status Indians were excluded from compensation. I also think it's another shameful thing that the aboriginal veterans monument remains unfinished.
We've heard from the Royal Canadian Legion about the veterans independence program and its complex eligibility criteria. For aboriginal veterans this complexity is further compounded because aboriginal veterans face a lack of sensitivity to their culture, low literacy and numeracy skills, alienation from benefits and programs, lack of support networks, and lack of community helpers.
Back in 1996 the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples reported that the aboriginal veterans received little or no information concerning benefits and services. In 2002 aboriginal veterans petitioned the United Nations Human Rights Committee as a consequence of the denial of available financial and statutory benefits following their military service. The supporting documents in the NAVA package describe in detail the systemic barriers that inhibited the ability of aboriginal veterans to take advantage of benefits and services. Today these remain unresolved issues for aboriginal veterans who are Métis and non-status Indians.
We would like to advise you, in your work as committee members, to give specific consideration to the needs of aboriginal veterans. I think it's important to emphasize that when you are undertaking your considerations and recommendations, you are speaking and listening to aboriginal veterans.
In 2003 the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs released a report entitled called “Honouring the Pledge: Ensuring Long Term Care for Veterans”. This report made no references whatsoever to aboriginal veterans.
Last year the special Senate committee released a report called “Embracing the Challenge of Aging”. This report was also weak on the needs of aboriginal veterans. The needs of aboriginal veterans have been sidestepped by many committees of the House and the Senate. The sober reality of this is that it has increased the uncertainties and anxieties in the minds of many aboriginal veterans.
We need a determined, measured, and sustained approach that's going to produce results. NAVA has provided you with 20 recommendations for your consideration. Most of them are focused on long-term care needs of aboriginal veterans, and these recommendations come from aboriginal veterans.
The call for national standards for long-term care of veterans, including care, benefits, and services, is a very important initiative. These standards can underpin the development of intelligent strategies, policies, and programs. NAVA supports the Canadian Legion in its efforts to see these standards in place. We need to underscore that an aboriginal component should be part of these national standards, as well as all the concomitant strategies, policies, and programs. Aboriginal veterans want to have the capacity to be engaged in the development and implementation of legislation, policies, and programs that have a bearing on aboriginal veterans, but without the resources and capacity, they'll just be pushed to the side.
From a practical perspective, there needs to be aboriginal representation on councils, committees, and subcommittees dealing with the health care needs of veterans.
For example, NAVA is not a member of the Gerontology Advisory Council, which was put together by Veterans Affairs. It's important that there be aboriginal representation on this council and similar bodies, because there are specific health issues and understandings that need to be present in the health promotion programs for aboriginal veterans. Any intervention model for veterans with high-care needs requires an aboriginal component to ensure that there is credibility and commitment to all aboriginal veterans.
Parallel to participation on these bodies, there needs to be long-term capacity so that NAVA can effectively participate. Currently, our capacity is almost nil. NAVA requires the dedication of volunteers such as me to keep the issues alive.
This standing committee needs to send a recommendation that NAVA requires core funding to undertake its activities. This is not a new recommendation; it's the same recommendation that was put forward to the Senate standing committee in 1996, in the document “The Aboriginal Soldier After the Wars”.
I want to draw to your attention and tell you about some interesting things. The Journal of the American Medical Association reported that one out of three senior citizens doesn't have the literacy skills to understand prescriptions, medical forms, doctors' instructions, etc. Everyone knows there's low literacy and low numeracy skills among aboriginal veterans, and they don't have health literacy skills. As a result, they're less likely to understand what programs they're entitled to receive support from. They have difficulty following instructions for filling out application forms and all the other paper work associated with this.
The subject has received little attention in Canada. In 2002, the Canadian Public Health Association reported that there was very little knowledge of the link between literacy and health. Perhaps even more worrying is the fact that the CPHA reported that practitioners still do not realize how many people are affected by low literacy skills. Even if an aboriginal veteran can read and comprehend materials from Veterans Affairs, he or she will still have difficulty comprehending the unfamiliar vocabulary and concepts. Literacy needs to be combined with problem-solving ability.
What needs to be done? There needs to be training and educational aids, and communication needs to be undertaken in a culturally sensitive manner and be seen to be part of the existing aboriginal community. Direct input and participation from NAVA will ensure that aboriginal veterans and eligible dependants and survivors are fully benefiting from the existing programs and services. Aboriginal veterans want their cultural experience and traditional roots taken into account when services are designed, communicated, and delivered. Aboriginal veterans need to be engaged in the design and delivery of program initiatives.
As aboriginal veterans age, the sensory changes that come with this stage all have their impact: visual acuity, hearing, agility, mobility, as well as the social and emotional changes. Interpersonal contact needs to take place between trusting individuals. Face-to-face meetings are the preferred source of information exchange for aboriginal veterans, because it's part of the oral tradition of aboriginal people. In many aboriginal communities, veterans will seek understanding and assistance by turning to home care workers, traditional knowledge holders, and community leaders.
To assist your work, NAVA has given you 20 recommendations for the long-term care of aboriginal veterans. In closing, I would like to thank the committee members for your interest and attention to the needs of NAVA.
Thank you.
:
Yes, that's what'll happen. The thing is, it is the job of Veterans Affairs to find a way to protect these people and to keep them in their homes as long as possible. I think communication between.... Well, everybody knows if there are veterans in their communities. It's their job to do this. This is why.
They have a list of the people who served in the armed forces. That's why I'm saying that, and that's why we're here. They're not doing this.
For example, we have people up north who say they're not going back there because they're refused pension. They are told they don't qualify. It's stuff like that. People are really touchy on this, especially aboriginal people--really touchy. When you tell them they don't qualify, I tell them to go back, because the old saying was that you've got to go to the DVA three or four times before you get accepted. They say, “Well, I'm not going back there again.”
That's the way they think. You're not going to change them if they're 80 years old and, as you say, from northern Quebec. How do you communicate?
That's why I went to a newsletter. A lot of them can't read or write or understand. They've no education. How do you communicate? Some guy got up and said, “Well, get on your computer.” I said, “Christ, they haven't got computers, the guys up north.” Some of them have, and some of them haven't. They have to have people reading their mail for them. This is the way it goes.
Thank you, gentlemen, for being here. It's extremely helpful. We're trying to get our heads around not only the issues facing veterans generally but also--and I think this is of some concern, at least to me--the fact that our veterans are spread out among so many different organizations. I know there's some sort of association of associations, but in the long term, the more they can work together, the better it will be, I think.
I'd like to focus a little bit on the issue of health services in terms of quality of life for our veterans. You mentioned literacy as an issue for aboriginal veterans.
My friend Roger Valley was explaining that a lot of veterans--I hope I have this right, Roger--who entered the service learned English. They were away from their homes for a period of time, went back into their communities, on the reserve or otherwise, and in many cases they lost contact with their traditional language. Maybe they could communicate in some way, but then, when it came to English, they lost the ability to speak it. They could understand English but they couldn't speak it, because there was nobody around who spoke English in some of those communities.
Do you have a sense, even anecdotally, of what percentage of aboriginal veterans--status, non-status, Métis, Inuit--just aren't accessing programs, VIP included, because of the language barrier?
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Petit, for coming out, and also certainly for all you're doing now. Of course you were active in the Canadian Forces, but you are now also helping veterans and helping young people as well, guiding them through their lives.
A group has started up in one of the first nations around me, and it's actually very good; it's just what you're saying. It's encouraging a number of young people and giving them discipline and purpose. It's keeping them away from the gangs and giving them a focus on what they can do with their lives.
This is about health care, so I want to go back to what you were talking about in terms of communication. We have continually heard the same thing with regard to veterans: how do we get people to ask for help when it comes to health care services, and how do we make those services available in terms of them knowing and understanding that it's there?
And you're absolutely right, in some cases it's literacy, in some cases it's pride. They don't want to admit that they have a health issue or that they need help to stay in their homes. We all agree on how important it is to stay in your home as long as you can, and certainly within your community as long as you can.
My understanding is that Veterans Affairs also has an aboriginal outreach officer. Do you know about that?
:
I called him today and said I was going to be seeing you. He said to say hello.
On the issue of communication, we hear that an awful lot as a committee, and it doesn't matter which party you're with. What's the best way to communicate? Is it through the Internet? Is it online? Is it through newsletters? Is it through public forums? Is it through the Legion? How is it? It's probably a combination of every one of them, right?
I tend to agree with you on the one-on-one, given the cultural concerns of the first nations people, because of the differences of their culture as compared to the traditional culture that we have in Canada.
As Madame Hinton indicated, that would be a challenge to do. It's easy to say that, but it's difficult to accomplish it. I'll definitely take that back.
As a sidebar, I appreciate Mr. Anders' concerns on the aboriginal regiment. I actually never thought of that myself, but I think it could have some very good merit down the road. We did have the black No. 2 Construction Battalion, the first all-black battalion in World War I. They had to go to places like Vimy Ridge with only shovels. They were only allowed to dig and work; they couldn't shoot until the very end, when someone thought, maybe we had better give these guys a gun to help them out.
You've had an opportunity now to meet with this committee, and you've had an opportunity to meet the ombudsman. Have you had an opportunity to meet with or his staff to discuss some of these recommendations you have? Have you requested an opportunity to meet with him at a time that's convenient to go over some of these recommendations?
:
No, no, the thing is.... Maybe I'll move to Quebec.
Voices: Oh, oh!
Mr. Claude Petit: But I don't think that has anything to do with voting. The first nations people, or the aboriginal people of Canada, this was their land. There were agreements made for them, and I think they deserve it.
I'm Métis. My ancestor came from France and married a native girl. That's why I'm a Métis. I'm a French Métis. This is the land of the first nations people, and I think they should be treated like that. Everything they ask for should be coming from the other population of Canada. Think of it that way. That's the way I look at it.
I don't have to go and vote to say that I'm an aboriginal guy, nor does anybody else. It really upsets me that we have to vote to win something; especially as a veteran. I don't think so.
About the first nation people, you hear a lot of complaining about a lot of other things they're doing in terms of health especially, about gangs, and dope, and stuff like that. Nobody's doing anything. I'm trying to help the cadets in that Bold Eagle program, and there's the Raven program in Victoria. If we had more programs like that for aboriginal kids...but not only aboriginal people; it would help the other population of Canada.
You have to remember that they were the first people here. That is their land. There were agreements made for their land with the Government of Canada. I think we have to look at it that way.
I don't have to vote to get some money. If they don't want to give it to me, it's up to them. I go into that cubicle by myself. I vote the way I want to vote.
And you're right too, because a lot of governments look at it that way. As you know, Saskatchewan is now PC—we were NDP for a long time—so that has a lot of effect.