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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
 
Meeting No. 49
 
Tuesday, November 7, 2006
 

The Standing Committee on Finance met in camera at 10:08 a.m. this day, in Room 308, West Block, the Chair, Brian Pallister, presiding.

 

Members of the Committee present: Diane Ablonczy, Dean Del Mastro, Hon. John McCallum, Hon. John McKay, Massimo Pacetti, Brian Pallister, Pierre A. Paquette, Michael Savage, Mike Wallace and Judy Wasylycia-Leis.

 

Acting Members present: Laurie Hawn for Rick Dykstra.

 

In attendance: Library of Parliament: June Dewetering, Principal. Standing Committee on Finance: Shaila Anwar, Co-Clerk of the Committee. House of Commons: Michael MacPherson, Procedural Clerk.

 

Witnesses: Department of Finance: Serge Nadeau, General Director, Analysis, Tax Policy Branch; Colleen Barnes, Senior Chief, Strategic Planning and Trade, Financial Institutions Division; Gérard Lalonde, Assistant Director, Tax Legislation Dividion, Tax Policy Branch; Wayne Foster, Senior Chief, Financial Markets Division; Denis Gauthier, Assistant Deputy Minister, Economic Development and Corporate Finance; Robert Dunlop, Acting General Director, Economic Development and Corporate Finance; Réal Bouchard, General Director, Federal-Provincial Relations and Social Policy Branch; Dan Calof, Senior Chief, Financial Sector Division; Diane Lafleur, Director, Financial Sector, Financial Sector Policy Branch. Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions Canada: Keith Martin, Director, Compliance Division. Department of Finance: Shannon Grainger, Senior Analyst, Financial Crimes - International, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch; Vincent Jalbert, Senior Project Leader, Financial Crimes - Domestic, Financial Sector Division, Financial Sector Policy Branch. Canada Revenue Agency: Denis Meunier, Director General, Enforcement and Disclosures Directorate, Compliance Programs Branch.

 
Pursuant to Standing Order 83.1, the Committee resumed its pre-budget consultations 2006.
 

The witnesses answered questions.

 

At 11:59 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 12:22 p.m., the sitting resumed in public.

 
Pursuant to the Order of Reference of Tuesday, October 24, 2006, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-25, An Act to amend the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act and the Income Tax Act and to make a consequential amendment to another Act.
 

The Committee commenced its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

 

Clause 1 carried on division.

 

Clause 2 carried on division.

 

On Clause 3

Massimo Pacetti proposed to move, — That Bill C-25, in Clause 3, be amended

(a) by replacing line 17 on page 2 with the following:

“(2) Paragraphs 5(l) and (m) of the Act are replaced”

(b) by replacing line 26 on page 2 with the following:

“(l.1) persons and entities engaged in the business of money lending, including “payday lenders” not covered in paragraphs (a) to (l);

(l.2) persons and entities engaged in the business of selling new and used motorized vehicles, including but not limited to automobiles, trucks, boats and motorcycles;

(l.3) persons and entities engaged in the business of buying and selling precious metals, stones and jewellery; and

(m) for the purposes of section 7, employees of a person or entity referred to in any of paragraphs (a) to (l.3).”

 

RULING BY THE CHAIR

Clause 3 of Bill C-25 proposes, among other things, to make an amendment to section 5(l) of the application section of the Proceeds of Crime (Money Laundering) and Terrorist Financing Act to include departments or agents of Her Majesty that sell prescribed precious metals. This amendment proposes to also include in this section persons in the business of money lending including ‘payday lenders’, persons or entities in the business of selling new and used motorized vehicles, as well as persons in the business of buying and selling precious metals, stones and jewellery. This clearly broadens the scope of the application of the bill.

According to page 654 of Marleau & Montpetit: “An amendment to a bill that was referred to a committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.”

Consequently, in my view, this amendment goes beyond the scope of Bill C-25 and is therefore inadmissible.

 

Clause 3 carried on division.

 

Clause 4 carried on division.

 

Clause 5 carried on division.

 

On Clause 6,

Mike Wallace moved, — That Bill C-25, in Clause 6, be amended by replacing lines 21 and 22 on page 3 with the following:

“under section 8 of the Regulations Implementing the United Nations Resolutions on the Suppression of Terrorism shall also make a”

 

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Mike Wallace and it was agreed to.

 

Clause 6, as amended, carried on division.

 

Clause 7 carried on division.

 

On Clause 8,

Diane Ablonczy moved, — That Bill C-25, in Clause 8, be amended by

(a) replacing line 21 on page 5 with the following:

“spondent banking relationship” means a relationship created by an agree-”

(b) replacing lines 28 and 29 on page 5 with the following:

“management, cheque clearing and any prescribed services.”

 

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Diane Ablonczy and it was agreed to.

 
Massimo Pacetti moved, — That Bill C-25, in Clause 8, be amended

(a) by replacing line 21 on page 6 with the following:

“of section 2 of the Bank Act and for authorized foreign companies within the meaning of section 2 of the Insurance Companies Act, shall ensure that”

(b) by replacing line 28 on page 6 with the following:

“with the requirements of sections 6 and 9.6”

 

John McCallum moved, — That the amendment be amended by deleting the words

“(b) by replacing line 28 on page 6 with the following:

“with the requirements of sections 6 and 9.6”.”

 

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of John McCallum and it was agreed to.

 

The question was put on the amendment of Massimo Pacetti, as amended, and it was agreed to.

 
Massimo Pacetti moved, — That Bill C-25, in Clause 8, be amended by replacing lines 3 to 5 on page 7 with the following:

“within the meaning of section 2 of the Bank Act and for authorized foreign companies within the meaning of section 2 of the Insurance Companies Act, shall ensure that their branches, that are located in a country that is not a member of the Financial Action Task Force and that carry out activities similar to those of persons and entities referred to in those paragraphs, develop and apply policies and procedures that are consistent with the requirements of sections 6 and 9.6 when the laws of the country permit it.”

 

Michael Savage moved, — That the amendment be amended by adding after the words “of sections 6” the following:

“, 6.1”

 

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Michael Savage and it was agreed to.

 

The question was put on the amendment of Massimo Pacetti, as amended, and it was agreed to.

 

Clause 8, as amended, carried.

 

Clause 9 carried.

 

Clause 10 carried.

 

On Clause 11,

Diane Ablonczy moved, — That Bill C-25, in Clause 11, be amended by replacing lines 28 and 29 on page 7 with the following:

“the Regulations Implementing the United Nations Resolutions on the Suppression of Terrorism;”

 

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Diane Ablonczy and it was agreed to.

 

Clause 11, as amended, carried.

 

Clauses 12 to 16 inclusive carried on division severally.

 

On Clause 17,

Diane Ablonczy moved, — That Bill C-25, in Clause 17, be amended by replacing lines 13 to 15 on page 13 with the following:

“instruments were when seized, who claims in respect of the currency or monetary instruments an interest as owner or, in Quebec, a right as owner or trustee may, within 90”

 

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Diane Ablonczy and it was agreed to on division.

 

Clause 17, as amended, carried on division.

 

Clauses 18 to 25 inclusive carried severally.

 

On Clause 26,

Massimo Pacetti moved, — That Bill C-25, in Clause 26, be amended by adding after line 3 on page 18 the following:

“(4.1) Section 55 of the Act is amended by adding the following after subsection (3):

(3.01) The Canada Revenue Agency may request designated information about a person or an entity from the Centre if the Canada Revenue Agency has reasonable grounds to suspect that the person or entity is obtaining or is attempting to obtain a rebate, refund or credit to which it is not entitled, or is evading or attempting to evade paying taxes or duties imposed under an Act of Parliament administered by the Minister of National Revenue. The Centre shall disclose the requested information to the Canada Revenue Agency if, on the basis of its analysis and assessment, it has reasonable grounds to suspect that designated information would be relevant to the Canada Revenue Agency’s investigation.”

 

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Massimo Pacetti and it was negatived.

 

Clause 26 carried.

 

Clauses 27 to 37 inclusive carried severally.

 

On Clause 38,

John McCallum proposed to move, — That Bill C-25, in Clause 38, be amended by adding after line 3 on page 30 the following:

“(2) The Security Intelligence Review Committee established by subsection 34(1) of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service Act shall undertake a review of the operations of the Centre in each financial year and shall, within three months after the end of each financial year, submit an annual report to Parliament on those operations.”

 

RULING BY THE CHAIR

 

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it infringed on the financial initiative of the Crown, as provided on page 655 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice.

 

Whereupon, John McCallum appealed the decision of the Chair.

The question: "Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?" was put and the decision was overturned, by a show of hands: YEAS: 4; NAYS: 6.

 

Whereupon, John McCallum moved the amendment.

 

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of John McCallum and it was agreed to on division.

 

Clause 38, as amended, carried on division.

 

Clauses 39 to 47 inclusive carried on division severally.

 

The Title carried.

 

The Bill, as amended, carried.

 

ORDERED, — That the Chair report the Bill, as amended, to the House.

 

At 1:07 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

 



Elizabeth B. Kingston
Clerk of the Committee

 
 
2006/11/09 7:57 a.m.