:
Good morning, everyone.
We have three items on the agenda today. We're going to hear from our witness first, and then we'll go to a discussion of the subcommittee report, just looking for approval or modification of the subcommittee report by the full committee. In that report we dealt with several issues, but first and foremost the study of North American trade and beyond. But I'll talk about that later. And finally, we have Mr. Julian's two motions, should he choose to bring them forth, and I think he's given indication that he will. So we will deal with those as well.
I'd like to start by thanking our witness very much for coming here on very short notice. Carol Osmond is the senior policy adviser for the Canadian Association of Importers and Exporters. The other witnesses apparently could not come, and we appreciate it very much that Ms. Osmond has agreed to come today.
You have a very short presentation, I understand, so perhaps we could be ready with questions as soon as possible. We'll probably go until about 10:15 with the witness and then get to the other business of the committee.
Again, Ms. Osmond, thank you very much for being here today. I just want to say one more thing before you actually get started. For several meetings now, we have been dealing with our study of North American trade and also trade beyond North America, and the proposal is to continue that until Christmas. But I consider this to be certainly a part of that study, and we'll talk about that once we have given the witness the chance to make her presentation and have gone to questions.
Go ahead with your presentation, please, Ms. Osmond.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for your invitation to be here today.
I understand it was a late night last night. I was actually watching the vote at the airport in Toronto, on my way to Ottawa.
I'm here representing IE Canada, the Canadian Association of Importers and Exporters. The association has been a leading voice of the trade community since 1932. This past October we had our 75th annual conference in Toronto.
The association serves small, medium, and large enterprises throughout the country, as well as a range of service providers to Canada's trade community. Our members are manufacturers, distributors, and retailers from a broad range of industries, including food and food product, automotive, electronic, and textile and apparel. We have a growing membership that today exceeds 750 members.
Given the nature of our association, obviously issues relating to customs and the border are uppermost in our minds and a key priority.
I have been with IE Canada as its senior policy advisor for one and a half years. I am a lawyer by training. I practised customs and trade law with an international law firm for 12 years. I spent five of those years in Mexico, following the implementation of NAFTA, which makes me one of those Canadians who has been impacted significantly, both personally and professionally, by our free trade agreements.
More recently I've been involved in legal research projects examining implementation of trade facilitation measures in Latin America, and particularly central America, as well as issues relating to the global trade in pirated and counterfeit goods and border enforcement of intellectual property rights. I serve as vice-chair of the Canadian Anti-Counterfeiting Network, for which IE Canada serves as the secretariat.
I'd like to begin by reiterating some of the points that were made during the trade policy round table that was held by this committee on October 19. The first point relates to the integrated nature of trade.
Export Development Canada recently reported that the import content used to make Canadian exports has been growing steadily, and now averages around 35%. In many manufacturing industries, the ratio is 50% or higher. This is clearly reflected in the membership of our association. In a recent survey, 51% of our members indicated that they are primarily both importers and exporters. If we remove service providers, that number is over 63%. So imports are becoming an increasing percentage of our exports.
The second point relates to the importance of integrating our trade policy with our domestic policy. Together with modernizing and improving customs processes to take advantage of our trading relationships, we must ensure that we have the physical infrastructure in place at our border, as well as at our principal maritime ports, to move goods efficiently into and out of Canada.
For most importers and exporters, the current concern is not customs release times but the time it takes to get to customs inspection booths due to inadequate infrastructure at, and leading up to, major ports of entry. The problem will only be exacerbated in coming years as trade volumes increase. An estimated 58,000 crossings occur in the Detroit-Windsor region every day. By 2020 the number of daily crossings could exceed 90,000. The Port of Vancouver anticipates that by 2020, it will need to handle three times the volume it does currently. With current infrastructure, most North American ports will not be able to handle projected 2010 volumes.
Turning to our trading relationship with the United States, clearly that relationship is of far greater importance to Canada than it is to the U.S. As highlighted in NAFTA@10, a report prepared by the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, the U.S. is far less reliant on foreign markets than is Canada, exporting 10% of its GDP compared with 40% for this country.
Exports to Canada account for less than 2% of U.S. GDP. Nevertheless, trade between Canada and the U.S. has grown dramatically since implementation of the FTA in 1989 and NAFTA in 1994. Our economies are becoming increasingly interdependent: 34% of our bilateral shipments of goods is comprised of intra-company trade, and over 70% is comprised of intra-industry trade.
Both Canada and the United States are facing intense competition from the Asia Pacific region, particularly China. China is competing with Canada as a primary source of U.S. imports, especially manufactured goods. To meet that competition, it is critical that we continue to work in very close cooperation with the United States as well as Mexico, through such initiatives as the security and prosperity partnership, to address North American competitiveness and issues related to the border.
Unfortunately, indications are that the Canada-U.S. border is becoming thicker rather than thinner. Despite significant investments made by both the public and private sectors to try to streamline and facilitate movement of goods and people across the border, initiatives such as the western hemisphere travel initiative and the imposition of the U.S. Department of Agriculture's APHIS or Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service fee at the border threaten to undermine those efforts.
We have to bear in mind in dealing with the United States that security continues to be a major preoccupation in the U.S. To maintain our access to that market we have to address U.S. security concerns, which makes the Ministry of Public Safety and the Canada Border Services Agency critical in our economic and diplomatic relations with the United States.
Finally, I would like to comment briefly on the issue of product counterfeiting and piracy. As I mentioned, IE Canada serves as the secretariat for the Canadian Anti-Counterfeiting Network. This is a coalition of broad-based associations as well as law firms and intellectual property rights holders that have joined together in Canada to address the issue of counterfeiting and piracy.
Lack of effective IP enforcement in Canada, especially at our borders, is a significant irritant in the Canada-U.S. trading relationship. Canada has been included on the United States trade representative's 301 watch list for the past several years. The major source of counterfeit and pirated products is Asia, especially China. This issue of counterfeit and pirated products not only has an impact in terms of our relationship with the United States, but it is also directly relevant to our trading relationship with China and the competition that we face from China.
It's estimated that counterfeiting and piracy cost the Canadian economy billions of dollars annually. The goods coming into the country range from potentially counterfeit pharmaceutical products, to car parts, to luxury goods, to toys, to electrical products, and so on. They not only present a threat to our economy and our tax revenue, but they also present a serious risk to the health and safety of Canadians.
Unfortunately we do not have an effective system in Canada to address this issue of counterfeit and pirated products. Particularly, our enforcement at the border is very lax and is somewhat of an embarrassment, I think, to this country. Not only is it of concern to the Canada-U.S. relationship, but it has also been raised internationally.
I'll finish my comments here, and I welcome your questions.
:
Thank you very much, Ms. Osmond.
Just to remind the committee, in previous meetings the committee agreed to study Canada's trade and investment policy in our major markets. Of course, we also have agreed to identify specific problems and try to make specific recommendations for solutions. Since the United States—and we agreed to this before—is Canada's largest trade and investment partner, then of course the United States is a key part of the study.
At the subcommittee, as you'll see later, we will recommend that because of the time left, we'll have meetings going until the Christmas break, and this is part of that. The purpose of this meeting is to discuss Canada-U.S. trade and investment issues. The goal is to begin to understand the current issues that may impede Canadians' ability to do business with the United States.
Your presentation, Ms. Osmond, is very much appreciated. There will be, of course, more meetings on this in the months ahead, but today, again, we appreciate your coming very much.
Going to the questions, first is Mr. Eyking.
:
Starting with your question on the ports, within our membership, particularly given the issues that arose in the port of Vancouver with the truckers' dispute a year or so ago, we're seeing that companies are looking to minimize or spread the risk. They are starting to look more and more at using east coast ports.
For a lot of companies, I think there's certainly a lot of importation of goods from China and Asia that would continue to come through the port of Vancouver. For a lot of our members, I think the port of Vancouver will continue to be the principal port they use.
We are certainly looking, because of the concerns with respect to our west coast ports. We're seeing more and more of our members potentially looking at Halifax and starting to shift some of their imports through the port of Halifax.
In terms of our approach to our ports, I think we definitely need to have a comprehensive and an integrated policy that looks at both the west coast and the east coast and at how they work together.
On the issue with China, it's actually unfortunate that Mary Anderson, who's the president of the association, isn't here. She's currently visiting Hong Kong and China.
China is clearly an extremely important trading partner for Canada.
I mentioned the issue of integrated trade and the fact that I think we've traditionally looked at exports as being good and imports as being bad. We want to promote exports and, I guess, discourage imports. We're finding more and more that companies are both exporters and importers.
We have increasingly integrated supply chains around the world. In order to be able to compete globally and to compete in the U.S. market, companies are looking for cheaper sources of supply for their parts and components.
I think that's important to bear in mind when we're looking at our trade relationship with China and at other emerging markets around the world. Being able to source in those markets can also help Canadian companies that are manufacturers and exporters compete globally.
:
On the issue of investment, that's not an issue we focus on in our association. Largely we deal with issues related to the trade in goods between Canada and the United States and amongst other countries. So investment and issues related to investment don't really fall within the mandate of the association.
In terms of the concern about protectionism in the United States, when I talk to some of the people I've worked with in the United States, I think the point they make is that issues related to trade and security and so on are bipartisan issues in the United States, and we cannot assume that because we have a democratically controlled Congress and Senate we're going to see a significant rise in protectionism in the United States, particularly as it might affect Canada.
Where there are concerns is in terms of U.S. negotiating authority, fast-track negotiating authority, and how the change in the composition of the Senate and the Congress will impact the United States' free trade negotiations, for example, with the Andean community and other countries, and whether or not those treaties will be passed by the U.S. Congress.
I was reading an article that appeared in the Washington Post recently, and there are negotiations going on. The Democrats are concerned about having environmental and labour issues addressed, just as they have in other free trade agreements. The key concern from a Canadian perspective is the implications for the multilateral trade negotiations and the Doha round. There is a sense that if there isn't significant progress by the spring of next year, by March of next year, we're probably looking to 2009 before we're going to have any more movement at that level.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good afternoon and welcome, Ms. Osmond.
You represent the Canadian Association of Importers and Exporters. The committee has decided to focus its study on what could be called “the best possible foreign trade policy.”
Your main concern, of course, is to represent all your members, both the exporters and the importers.
I imagine that for someone specializing in import and export, there could be a relative difference between the two activities, but that the important thing ultimately is that the individual in question be able to continue to do business and to prosper.
As far as we are concerned, we are in favour of trade with other countries, but we are concerned as well about competition from emerging countries such as China and India.
We really need to develop a strategy including some very specific points in order to compete with other countries. As my Liberal colleague mentioned earlier, we must do this in a context where the manufacturing sector here, particularly in the case of exports, has not necessarily followed quickly enough the trend toward development, modernization, the acquisition of new technologies and innovation.
You talked a little about safeguards. I think they are important for Canada, to give us some time to modernize in order to move forward—whether we are talking about the furniture, apparel or other industries. Are you in favour of safeguards? The fact is that your members would perhaps import less and would probably therefore focus more on exports. What is your association's position regarding this potential dilemma involving imports, exports and safeguards?
:
I guess generally our association is in favour of the free movement of goods across borders. If we're looking at safeguard measures, we have to be very careful how we use those measures. Increasingly what we need to do in North America is develop a North American strategy when it comes to addressing competition that comes from China and other countries in Asia.
As I mentioned, the trade between Canada and the United States, and to a lesser extent with Mexico, is becoming increasingly integrated. Thirty-four percent of trade between Canada and the United States is inter-company trade. An oft-cited example is the auto sector, where a motor vehicle may essentially go back and forth across the border eight times before you have a finished product, with parts and components going back and forth across the border. Addressing issues related to the border is absolutely critical to the competitiveness of Canadian companies and companies generally in North America.
Also, I think we have to be strategic in our investment decisions within North America. When I spent the time in Mexico.... I'll give an example of a Canadian company. What they found when producing in Canada was that there were certain lines of product that were no longer economically viable for them to produce in Canada; they were no longer cost-competitive. But their customers were demanding a full line of products, so in order to be able to satisfy their customers, they needed to maintain their full product line, including those products that were no longer feasible, from a cost perspective, to produce in Canada.
What they did was build a plant in Mexico to produce those products, at a lower cost in the Mexican market, so that they could continue to supply the full range of products to their customers. It also gave them the added advantage of being close to the southern U.S. market, which they weren't accessing from Canada, or not as effectively from Canada.
So there are certainly opportunities. We have to take advantage of our geographic proximity within North America to meet the competition that's coming from offshore. That means we have to invest in our infrastructure, we have to focus on our borders, and so on, and work very cooperatively with our trading partners within NAFTA.
:
Natural resources, metals, wood and various other items form the basis of our trade, particularly in the manufacturing sector. The trend is to setting world prices, in the case of metals, for example. Consequently, the price of resources and metals should be balanced at the world level. However, there are some other considerations such as working conditions, social conditions and the environment.
For example, in response to the Canadian government's lack of interest in the Kyoto agreement, France has actually said that it might impose a special tax on Canadian products, because the government is disregarding the environment. So we do have to respect some international considerations. In addition, the WTO seems inclined to allow France to impose these special taxes. In such a case, we could talk about dumping. Some prices drop when there is a lack of concern for working conditions, social conditions of employees and the environment.
That said, there should be a trend toward the globalization of markets, and that will live us to the globalization of human, economic and social conditions. So there will be very few differences in the basic elements of trade and the ways of doing business. I think that we have reached the most important point, what could be called the knowledge economy and the ability to innovate quickly in order to stay ahead of one's competitors at all times. Without that, we will never get anywhere.
We have to make the rules fairer and more equitable around the world as regards social conditions and the environment. I know your association's objective is to do business and to facilitate trade as much as possible, but as I was saying earlier, you are in a bind. If your exports go up or down, your imports will go down or up accordingly. People will come out ahead. Your overall vision for moving the Canadian economy forward, to avoid what could be called social or environmental dumping—and I come back again to the issue of safeguards—in order to achieve a balance so that the competition—
:
There may well be certain instances, and we certainly have the procedures in place in Canada for companies to bring safeguard actions. You know, in private practice I was involved in dumping investigations and so on. We certainly have those remedies available in Canada. However, those remedies apply in very exceptional circumstances and under very specific conditions. They don't represent, obviously, a broad policy solution for addressing competition from foreign markets in the Canadian market. We can't rely on those types of protectionist measures, I think, to protect us from globalization and competition from other countries.
In terms of how we compete globally, first of all, as I mentioned, it's not a situation where exports are good and imports are bad. I think imports contribute to our ability to export, and imports are becoming an increasingly greater percentage of the value of our exports, so we have to be able to take advantage of those lower-cost sources of supply around the world.
Certainly if I look at the preoccupations of our members, clearly the cost, the global supply chains, being able to source globally, being able to reduce the costs associated with moving those goods around the world, and having visibility--you often talk about visibility in the supply chain--are critical concerns.
There was a study, actually, that was just released by Industry Canada, and one of the things they address in that study is how critical logistics and supply chain management are in the ability of Canadian companies to compete. In Canada we fall behind other countries, and I guess particularly the United States, in using technology and other procedures to measure the costs associated with logistics and turnover of inventory and so on.
So those are areas where in order for our companies to export and take advantage of export markets, they have to be able to reduce the costs associated with logistics and moving their goods into the country and into export markets. Issues related to logistics are becoming increasingly important in terms of being able to access export markets.
I mentioned the issue of counterfeit and pirated goods that are coming into this country from China. That's clearly a situation where China is not playing by the rules. And yet in this country we've actually paid very little attention to this issue. And our markets, not just the Canadian market but markets around the world, are being inundated with products that don't meet Canadian safety standards and are competing with legitimate products. It has a tremendous economic cost. It has an impact on our tax revenues, and there are health and safety issues as well. So that's another issue, I think, in terms of trying to compete, we need to address with China.
:
This APHIS fee applies to all imports into the United States, and traditionally Canada has been exempt from that fee because of the special relationship that we have with the United States. When the interim rule was published in the U.S., this was a key concern for many of our members, and not just members who are involved in the food industry and the agricultural food industry. It's important to realize that the United States is proposing to impose this fee on all commercial vehicles going into the United States, as well as on air passengers. That was one of the concerns--that it's across the board, that it will impact all imports going into the United States and all modes of transportation, and not just food and agricultural exports into the United States.
The other concern associated with the fee was the potential delays at the border, the delays that might be associated with collecting the fee. The fee is, I think, $5.25 per vehicle, so they were envisioning border personnel on the U.S. border having to make change. For the majority of carriers that would not be an issue because they could pay the fee upfront and display a decal on their vehicle and so on, but certainly for a percentage of exports that was a concern. So it was collection of the fee. Also, it indicated that the United States planned to increase inspections of shipments going into the United States.
There are a couple of concerns here. First of all, is this really the best way for the United States to be addressing their concerns? The U.S. has indicated that one of the reasons they decided to impose this fee and to increase inspections coming in from Canada is that they perceived that the risk had increased of goods being transshipped from Canada into the United States. There were instances of Spanish oranges going into the United States marked “Made in Canada”, so they perceived that there was a greater risk from Canada. Actually, there were a lot of responses from Canada from different associations, including IE Canada, but there was also a submission made by the Canadian embassy that went through, in considerable detail, responding to all the various risks that had been raised by the United States. It was a fairly detailed letter, and if you haven't read it, I would suggest that you take a look at it. I think it's very helpful. Essentially the argument from the Canadian government and from Canadian industry was that there are better ways of dealing with these issues, of addressing the concerns of the United States, and that we should work together cooperatively.
On a broader level, if we look at the expenditures made by government, as well as industry, we've been spending billions of dollars to try to facilitate trade between Canada and the United States and to ease the burden at the border. It's an uphill battle. As I mentioned earlier, the sense is that the border is actually becoming thicker, rather than thinner. We're investing all of this effort and resources in trying to improve our infrastructure and to improve customs processes at the border, and then suddenly a separate agency comes in with a new fee and an intention to increase inspections at the border, which clearly undermines this overall goal that we have of trying to facilitate movement of goods between Canada and the United States. I think it's an indication that we have to be constantly vigilant in terms of policies and procedures that are adopted in the United States that can hurt Canadian companies exporting into that market.
:
Yes, because there's the issue of the quantity of jobs, and I think there's a very legitimate perception that over the last ten or fifteen years what we've seen is an erosion, both to a certain extent in the quantity of good jobs and also in the quality of the jobs that are available within the Canadian economy.
Some people, and I'm one of them, believe that our trade policies are in large part responsible for that, that what we're intending to do is substitute the good manufacturing jobs that we had in Canada in the past for lower-paid service jobs. In fact, Statistics Canada seems to back that up. In their most recent studies, they've indicated that most of the jobs created today in the Canadian economy are part-time or temporary in nature and don't come with things like benefits that existed in the past, such as pensions. So what we've seen is an erosion of the good jobs.
One of the reasons that people put forward is that we are putting all our eggs in one basket, and that is in trade with the United States, with 86% of our trade now going to the United States. That's something that a small-business person certainly wouldn't do. They wouldn't concentrate on dealing with one client, because that, of course, leaves you vulnerable to that client. We've seen with softwood lumber and with BSE that this vulnerability is something that can be a real problem for us.
So coming to the issue of trade diversification, is that something the association discusses? Do you have specific recommendations on how we can diversify our trade so we're not as vulnerable to our relationship with the United States and in a very real sense we're diversifying the possibilities around the world?
:
There are obviously issues relating to the port infrastructure itself, and terminal capacity, and so on. There's also the issues of the infrastructure leading up to the ports—being able to access the ports and leave the ports. Those are critical to members.
The other issue that continues to arise is our rail capacity and the ability, once the goods have arrived, for example, in the port of Vancouver, to then move them from the port to points east. What we're finding is that, since the dispute that took place in Vancouver a year or so ago with the truckers, there has been an improvement. From what I'm hearing, instead of taking ten days on average for containers to be moved onto the rail, it's now taking something like five days.
But for some of our members, that's still a significant delay. What we're hearing is that the railways are allocating space on the trains to the various steamship lines. Now, having said that, I think the railways have made significant strides in trying to increase capacity, but I think it's going to continue to be an issue.
Another issue I referred to that our members face is this whole issue of visibility in the supply chain. With the issue of having your containers wait on average five days at the port to be put on a train, the problem is you don't know whether it's going to be one day or five days, so in terms of your cost in maintaining inventory and so on, you have to plan for the worst case scenario, though in fact it may take less time than that.
:
You might be interested to know that currently a study is being conducted by the University at Buffalo looking at the issue of how the border is impacting, or potentially impacting, investment decisions. Within, I guess, the last couple of years, the university has conducted the study to try to get a sense of the cost of the delays at the border, the additional security requirements, and so on, and how that was impacting Canadian companies vis-à-vis American companies. Not surprisingly, they found that it was an issue of much greater concern to Canadians. The cost to Canadians was higher than the cost to American companies.
What they're doing now is they're going back and interviewing some of the same companies they interviewed a few years ago to find out how they've adapted to those additional costs. Have they, for example, established distribution facilities on the U.S. side of the border in order to avoid delays and so on?
So that's something that will probably be coming out in the next little while that may be of interest to you.
Just to give you some anecdotal evidence, I was speaking recently with one of our members involved in the food and agricultural sector. They were finding that because of the nature of their product, they were subject to FDA inspections of their product going into the United States. Samples were taken of their product, and the samples were then tested. But because of the delays in terms of getting the test results, they found that their product was spoiling at the border, and they had to re-ship it. As a result of all that, they actually bought a facility in the United States so that they wouldn't have to deal with the border.
It's difficult to know how many Canadian companies have made similar decisions. Certainly other companies have found other ways to address the issues at the border and adjust their practices and so on. Still, I think it might be interesting for the committee to look at how the border is impacting Canadian investment decisions, or investment decisions vis-à-vis investment coming into Canada.
:
The focus of our association is primarily on trading goods and the movement of goods back and forth across the border, rather than services.
The service sector our association represents is largely service providers to that industry, the import and export industry. They're involved in things like customs brokerage, logistics, transportation, and so on.
I actually think it's interesting that in the customs brokerage industry, in order to service U.S. customers, many Canadian companies actually serve as the importer of record into the United States. They're not only exporting to the U.S.; they're actually engaged in the process of importing the goods and complying with all the requirements in order to import those goods into the United States.
What has been allowed to happen is Canadian customs brokerage firms have established operations in the United States. They're some of the largest service providers in that sector in the U.S., because they have a contingent of Canadian exporters that also serve as importers into the United States.
As I mentioned, the logistics of ensuring the efficient movement of goods into the country, across the country, and into our export markets have also become increasingly important to the import and export community. I think it's potentially an area where Canada could have an advantage.
:
Thank you very much. We do appreciate it.
We're going to go right into the next part of our meeting. You can just leave as you will. Thanks very much, again.
Let's go now, before we get to Mr. Julian's motions, to the study plan. If you go to page 2 of the document prepared by researchers called “Study Plan Prepared for the House of Commons Standing Committee on International Trade”, there is a timeframe. Could you just go ahead and kind of look through that?
This is what the subcommittee decided to bring to the full committee here. From now until Christmas we have the meetings laid out. There are only, I believe, four or five left. Today's meeting, of course, is complete. Next Tuesday we propose to have these four groups, and three have agreed to come. CAFTA, the last one, the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance, we haven't been able to contact yet, but we're hoping to have all four at the table for the two hours. We know there's a lot of interest in agriculture trade here.
On Thursday, December 7, and on December 12--those of you who haven't been involved in the discussion may not know what we're proposing here--there is a two-day seminar, which just happened to correspond to our committee times, starting at eight o'clock and going to ten on each of these two days. It's here on the Hill, right in Centre Block, I believe. It is sponsored by the Department of Foreign Affairs and FIPA, the Inter-Parliamentary Forum of the Americas. The topic of these meetings is trade knowledge networks for parliamentarians.
We thought it would be good if the full committee tapped into these meetings. What we're proposing is that from ten to eleven, which completes our normal committee time, we have one-hour sessions, the first one dealing with the order in council appointment of Daniel Ross, a director of the Canadian Commercial Corporation.
:
I want to lay out what the proposal from the steering committee is first.
Then the second hour, the hour from ten to eleven on the twelfth, we're proposing to have the Conference Board of Canada. They haven't unveiled their study yet. We're not sure whether they would be willing to come and discuss that in any detail yet.
Another possibility would be to have the Conference Board after Christmas for maybe more than one meeting, possibly a couple of meetings, because they've done a very major study, as we heard before this committee about a month ago. It could be quite interesting. That leads to the second part after Christmas, from January 30 to March 29. What the subcommittee proposed is that we do a study on Canada-U.S. here--it should really be NAFTA, I would think, NAFTA trade. Possibly we could have the Conference Board of Canada, who have done a major study on NAFTA, to one or more meetings in that timeframe.
And then from April 17 to the end of June, should we not have an election before that time, we could go to stage two of the long-term study, which would expand beyond NAFTA. We can define that more later on.
That's just a rough guideline. Could we go to discussion on that now? There's a bit more information on stage one on page one of the study plan, which is Canada-U.S. trade, but again, I think we should probably refer to it as NAFTA trade and include Mexico, certainly. I would consider this to be a continuation of the study. We've had several witnesses on this already, and it would probably be more accurate to reflect this as a continuation.
Ms. Guergis, would you like to discuss this proposal?
:
I find the proposed schedule acceptable.
However, I would like us to take time to look at the following matter. Some companies are in a crisis situation at the moment: they are experiencing difficulties. We should take some time—I do not know exactly when, before the elections, I hope—to analyze these companies here at the Standing Committee on International Trade. I know that Mr. Julian will be putting forward a motion on the textile industry, for example. We know that this market is currently experiencing major difficulties as regards international trade. I am also thinking of the furniture industry.
We, the members of the Standing Committee on International Trade, should take the time to review this so that we can put forward some recommendations as to how to support these industries, which, at the moment, are experiencing some significant problems in their trade with the United States, China, etc.
If our committee does not deal with these matters, we will be missing the boat. I think this is something we must do.
I'll move first the motion on the apparel industry:
The Committee calls on the government of Canada to stem the current market disruption, in specific categories, in the Canadian apparel industry, by immediately invoking Article 242 of China's accession protocol to the WTO and putting in place restrictions or safeguards on the growth of specific categories of apparel imports from China.
I don't think there will be much debate or disagreement with this. We've had 50,000 jobs lost in the last four years. I'm not as eloquent as Mr. Menzies is on this particular issue, so I'll just read his words into the record, because I know he stands by them.
In reference specifically to safeguards, he said on November 8, 2005:
A Conservative government would stand up for Canadian workers and work proactively through international trade policies to ensure Canada competes on a level playing field.
And the official opposition at that time, the Conservative caucus, including leader Stephen Harper, supported a motion in Parliament on February 8, 2005, which called on the federal government to negotiate safeguards with the Chinese government, implement measures to encourage the use of Quebec and Canadian-made textiles, and to create programs to support older workers in the industry.
Mr. Menzies was absolutely right. I agree with him completely. It's nice when we can get all-party agreement on these things. He said it extremely eloquently. Mr. Chair, given his eloquent words, I cannot but agree with him, and I hope that all members would support this motion.
I will be voting against it. With respect to some of the points I had raised earlier, in 2005 there were few companies, less than 1% of the Canadian apparel industry, that actually approached the government and asked it to proceed with this process. That was in 2005, less than 1%. My question was, have they done it since? I got the answer back, no, they haven't. So I would want to hear from the industry before we embark down this path. If they haven't asked the government since then and there's been no request, then why are we proceeding with them? I'd like to speak with the industry, as Mr. Eyking has said. I'd also like to speak with department officials, before we make any decisions on voting on this.
I did raise a question today, but unfortunately we couldn't get an answer. We saw that there was widespread disruption in the EU with proceeding with this process. I want to know what the possible disruption could be here in Canada for the industry before we make a decision. I think it would be irresponsible for us to just simply vote in favour of this without having these questions answered.
So we will not be supporting it. Thank you.
:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am somewhat surprised.
It is true that it could be interesting to meet with witnesses from various industries and even union representatives from the apparel and textile sector. But where were we all, where were the Liberals and the Conservatives when all the job losses in the apparel and textile industries started happening?
It was not just yesterday, Mr. Chairman, that we started meeting with industry representatives and talking to them. People will remember the steps that were to be taken had already been announced in the House under the Liberals, and nothing was done at that time. Now the Conservatives are in power, but apparently there are fewer apparel and textile companies in most of the rest of Canada. However, all the people involved in Quebec—the industry, the unions and the employees—have been consulted at length. That is a consideration as well.
Moreover, two weeks ago, the representative of the Clothing and Textile Workers Union called for safeguards once again, because of the situation that has been deteriorating rapidly for months, even years. If we do not take action immediately, we can say farewell to the clothing and textile industries. And that would be a bad thing in some cases. So we need to move forward with this proposal. My colleague, in his legendary wisdom, would like to move an amendment.