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MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 19

Tuesday, May 29, 2001

The Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights met at 6:19 p.m. this day, in Room 371, West Block, the Chair, Andy Scott, presiding.

Member(s) of the Committee present: Carole-Marie Allard, Michel Bellehumeur, Bill Blaikie, Chuck Cadman, Paul DeVillers, Ivan Grose, Peter MacKay, John Maloney, John McKay, Lynn Myers, Stephen Owen, Andy Scott, Judy Sgro, Kevin Sorenson, Larry Spencer, Vic Toews.

Acting Member present: Larry Bagnell for Irwin Cotler.

In attendance: From the Library of Parliament: Gérald Lafrenière, Researcher; Philip Rosen, Senior Analyst.

Witness(es): From the Department of Justice: Richard G. Mosley, Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy Sector.

Pursuant to its Order of Reference of Thursday, April 26, 2001, the Committee resumed consideration of Bill C-24, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (organized crime and law enforcement) and to make consequential amendments to other Acts (See Minutes of Proceedings, Tuesday, May 8, 2001, Meeting No. 11).

The Committee proceeded to Clause-by-Clause consideration of the Bill.

On Clause 1,

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 1, be amended by

(a) replacing lines 13 and 14 on page 2 with the following:

(a) a member of the Senate, of the House of Commons, of a legislative assembly or of a municipal council, and

(b) adding after line 17 on page 2 the following:

(i) the Solicitor General of Canada and a Minister responsible for policing in a province,

(c) renumbering the subsequent subparagraphs accordingly.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Vic Toews moved, That Bill C-24, in Clause 1, be amended by replacing lines 9 to 12 on page 3 with the following:

"Release Act,

(xi) an employee and a member of the National Parole Board and of a provincial parole board, and

(xii) a provincial justice minister and a member of a provincial legislature;"

After debate, by unanimous consent, the motion was withdrawn.

After debate, Clause 1, as amended, carried.

On Clause 2,

Michel Bellehumeur moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 29 on page 4 with the following:

"direction to commit, with the approval of a judge, acts or omissions that"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS:

NAYS:

Michel Bellehumeur

Carole-Marie Allard

Bill Blaikie

Larry Bagnell

Peter MacKay

Chuck Cadman

(3)

Paul DeVillers

 

Ivan Grose

 

John Maloney

 

John McKay

 

Lynn Myers

 

Stephen Owen

 

Judy Sgro

 

Kevin Sorenson

 

Larry Spencer

 

Vic Toews

 

(13)

 

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 28 on page 5 with the following:

(6) may be made subject to conditions, including conditions limiting

(a) the duration of the designation;

(b) the nature of the conduct in the investigation of which a public officer may be justified in committing, or directing another person to commit, acts or omissions that would otherwise constitute an offence; and

(c) the acts or omissions that would otherwise constitute an offence and that a public officer may be justified in committing or directing another person to commit.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Michel Bellehumeur moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 34 to 37 on page 5 with the following:

"(a) is engaged in the investigation of organized crime;"

After debate, it was agreed by unanimous consent that the amendment be amended to read as follows:

That Bill C-24, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 34 to 37 on page 5 with the following:

"(a) is engaged in the investigation of a criminal organisation;"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, as amended, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS:

NAYS:

Michel Bellehumeur

Carole-Marie Allard

Bill Blaikie

Larry Bagnell

Peter MacKay

Chuck Cadman

John McKay

Paul DeVillers

Stephen Owen

Ivan Grose

Judy Sgro

John Maloney

(6)

Lynn Myers

 

Kevin Sorenson

 

Larry Spencer

 

Vic Toews

 

(10)

Michel Bellehumeur moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing line 41 on page 5 with the following:

"(c) obtains an order from a judge who is satisfied that the"

The motion was negatived.

Michel Bellehumeur moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 8 to 44 on page 6 with the following:

"(9) The judge shall not authorize the public officer to commit an act or omission that would otherwise constitute an offence and that would be likely to result in loss of or serious damage to property, or to direct the commission of an act or omission under subsection (10), unless, in addition to meeting the conditions set out in paragraphs (8)(a) to (c), the public officer is personally authorized in writing to commit the act or omission - or direct its commission - by a senior official who believes on reasonable grounds that committing the act or omission, as compared to the nature of the offence or criminal activity being investigated, is reasonable and proportional in the circumstances, having regard to such matters as the nature of the act or omission, the nature of the investigation and the reasonable availability of other means for carrying out the public officer's law enforcement duties."

The motion was negatived.

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 3 to 7 on page 7 with the following:

offence is justified in committing it if

(a) a public officer directs him or her to commit that act or omission and the person believes on reasonable grounds that the public officer has the authority to give that direction; and

(b) he or she believes on reasonable grounds that the commission of that act or omission is for the purpose of assisting

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Michel Bellehumeur moved, - That Bill C-24, in clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 5 to 9 on page 7 with the following:

"officer;

(b) believes on reasonable grounds that its commission is for the purpose of assisting the public officer in the public officer's law enforcement duties; and

(c) is personally authorized to commit it by an order obtained from a judge under subsection (8)."

The motion was negatived.

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 9 on page 7 the following:


(10.1) Nothing in subsection (8) or (9) justifies a public officer in directing the commission of an act or omission

(a) that is likely to result in destruction of or damage to property, if the value of the property destroyed or the damage would likely exceed five thousand dollars; or

(b) in which violence against a person is likely to be used or attempted.


(10.2) Nothing in subsection (10) justifies a person in committing an act or omission at the direction of a public officer if the person, in doing so

(a) intentionally or recklessly causes destruction of or damage to property, if the value of the property destroyed or the damage exceeds five thousand dollars; or

(b) uses or attempts to use violence against a person.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS:

NAYS:

Michel Bellehumeur

Carole-Marie Allard

Chuck Cadman

Larry Bagnell

Paul DeVillers

Bill Blaikie

John Maloney

Ivan Grose

Larry Spencer

Peter MacKay

Stephen Owen

John McKay

(6)

Lynn Myers

 

Judy Sgro

 

Vic Toews

 

(9)

Vic Toews moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 2, be amended by adding after line 34 on page 7 the following:

"(15) Nothing in this section affects the right of an innocent third party to bring suit in a court against a public officer or other person acting at his or her direction for the recovery of damages alleged to have been caused by the public officer or other person carrying out his or her duties."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS:

NAYS:

Bill Blaikie

Carole-Marie Allard

Chuck Cadman

Larry Bagnell

Peter MacKay

Michel Bellehumeur

Larry Spencer

Paul DeVillers

Vic Toews

Ivan Grose

(5)

John Maloney

 

John McKay

 

Lynn Myers

 

Stephen Owen

 

Judy Sgro

 

(10)

Clause 2, as amended, carried on the following recorded division:

YEAS:

NAYS:

Carole-Marie Allard

Michel Bellehumeur

Larry Bagnell

Bill Blaikie

Chuck Cadman

(2)

Paul DeVillers

 

Ivan Grose

 

Peter MacKay

 

John Maloney

 

John McKay

 

Lynn Myers

 

Stephen Owen

 

Judy Sgro

 

Larry Spencer

 

Vic Toews

 

(13)

 

Clause 3 carried.

On Clause 4,

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 4, be amended

(a) by adding after line 4 on page 14 the following:

(e.1) the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act,


(b) by replacing line 39 on page 14 with the following:

statements), or


(c) by replacing line 41 on page 14 and lines 1 to 3 on page 15 with the following:

Secrets Act,

and includes any other offence that there are reasonable grounds to believe is a criminal organization offence;

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Clause 4, as amended, carried.

Clause 5 carried.

Clause 6 carried.

Clause 7 carried.

Clause 8 carried.

Clause 9 carried.

Clause 10 carried.

On Clause 11,

Michel Bellehumeur moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 11, be amended by replacing line 45 on page 17 with the following:

"subsection (2) against a justice system participant or a journalist with the intent"

Unanimous consent was denied to move this amendment in a more appropriate place in the Bill.

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was adopted on the following recorded division:

YEAS:

NAYS:

Carole-Marie Allard

Larry Bagnell

Michel Bellehumeur

Paul DeVillers

Chuck Cadman

John Maloney

Ivan Grose

John McKay

Peter MacKay

Lynn Myers

Larry Spencer

Stephen Owen

Vic Toews

Judy Sgro

(7)

(7)

The result of the vote was announced: YEAS: 7, NAYS: 7.

Whereupon the Chair voted in the affirmative.

Accordingly, the amendment carried.

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 11, be amended by replacing line 45 on page 17 and lines 1 to 4 on page 18 with the following:

subsection (2) with the intent to provoke a state of fear in

(a) a group of persons or the general public in order to impede the administration of criminal justice; or

(b) a justice system participant in order to impede the justice system participant

The Chair ruled the amendment out of order because it sought to amend the same line in the Bill as the previously carried amendment.

Clause 11, as amended, carried.

Clause 12 carried.

Clause 13 carried.

Clause 14 carried.

Clause 15 carried.

Clause 16 carried.

Clause 17 carried.

Clause 18 carried.

On Clause 19,

Michel Bellehumeur moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 19, be amended by adding after line 28 on page 25 the following:

"(2.2) Subsections (1), (2) and (2.1) do not apply in the case of an offender who is able to show on a balance of probabilities that the property or proceeds come from a lawful source."

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Clause 19 carried.

Clause 20 carried.

Clause 21 carried.

Clause 22 carried.

Clause 23 carried.

Clause 24 carried.

Clause 25 carried.

Clause 26 carried.

On Clause 27,

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 27, be amended by replacing lines 39 to 45 on page 29 and lines 1 to 6 on page 30 with the following:

"criminal organization" means a group, however organized, that

(a) is composed of three or more persons in or outside Canada; and

(b) has as one of its main purposes or main activities the facilitation or commission of one or more serious offences that, if committed, would likely result in the direct or indirect receipt of a material benefit, including a financial benefit, by the group or by any of the persons who constitute the group.

It does not include a group of persons that forms randomly for the immediate commission of a single offence.

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Michel Bellehumeur moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 27, be amended by replacing line 26 on page 30 with the following:

"467.11 (1) Every person who belongs to a criminal organization or who, for the"

After debate, the question being put on the amendment, it was negatived.

Clause 27, as amended, carried.

Clause 28 carried.

Clause 29 carried.

Clause 30 carried.

On Clause 31,

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 31, be amended by replacing line 17 on page 36 with the following:

connection with the indictable offence if

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 31, be amended by replacing line 22 on page 36 with the following:

l'accusant de l'acte criminel;

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Clause 31, as amended, carried.

Clause 32 carried.

Clause 33 carried.

Clause 34 carried.

Clause 35 carried.

Clause 36 carried.

Clause 37 carried.

Clause 38 carried.

Clause 39 carried.

Clause 40 carried.

Clause 41 carried.

Clause 42 carried.

Clause 43 carried.

Clause 44 carried.

Clause 45 carried.

Clause 46 carried.

On new Clause ( 46.1 )

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24 be amended by adding after line 33 on page 45 the following:

Review of sections 25.1 to 25.4 of the Criminal Code

46.1 Within five years after this section comes into force, a review of sections 25.1 to 25.4 of the Criminal Code and their operation shall be undertaken by any committee of the Senate, of the House of Commons or of both Houses of Parliament that is designated or established for that purpose.

After debate, John McKay moved the following sub-amendement: That the word "five" be replaced by the word "three".

After debate, the question being put on the sub-amendment, it was adopted.

The question being put on the amendment, as amended, it was adopted.

Clause 47 carried.

Clause 48 carried.

Clause 49 carried.

Clause 50 carried.

Clause 51 carried.

Clause 52 carried.

Clause 53 carried.

Clause 54 carried.

Clause 55 carried.

Clause 56 carried.

On Clause 57,

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 57, be amended by replacing lines 40 to 42 on page 51 with the following:


56.1 Subparagraph 125(1)(a)(vi) of the French version of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act is replaced by the following:

(vi) une infraction d'organisation criminelle, au sens de l'article 2 du Code criminel, y compris l'infraction visée au paragraphe 82(2);

57. Paragraphs 3(d) and (e) of Schedule II to the Act are repealed.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The amendment is not receivable because it aims to amend a section of the parent Act not specifically amended by a clause of Bill C-24.

Clause 57 carried.

Clause 58 carried.

Clause 59 carried.

Clause 60 carried.

Clause 61 carried.

Clause 62 carried.

Clause 63 carried.

Clause 64 carried.

Clause 65 carried.

Clause 66 carried.

On Clause 67,

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 67, be amended by replacing lines 9 and 10 on page 59 with the following:

"serious offence" means an offence under this Act or an indictable offence under any other Act of Parliament, for which the maximum punishment is imprisonment for five years or more, or an offence that is prescribed by regulation under subsection 467.1(4) of the Criminal Code;

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Clause 67, as amended, carried.

On Clause 68,

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24 be amended by adding after line 5 on page 60 the following:

68.1 Paragraph (d) of the definition "infraction désignée" in section 153 of the French version of the Act is replaced by the following:

d) toute infraction d'organisation criminelle punissable aux termes de la présente loi.

RULING BY THE CHAIR

The amendment is not receivable because it aims to amend a section of the parent Act not specifically amended by a clause of Bill C-24.

Clause 68 carried.

Clause 69 carried.

Clause 70 carried.

Clause 71 carried.

Clause 72 carried.

Clause 73 carried.

Clause 74 carried.

Clause 75 carried.

Clause 76 carried.

Clause 77 carried.

Clause 78 carried.

Clause 79 carried.

Clause 80 carried.

On Clause 81,

John Maloney moved, -- That Bill C-24, in Clause 81, be amended

(a) by adding after line 16 on page 69 the following:

(e.1) the Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes Act,


(b) by replacing line 15 on page 70 with the following:

officers), or


(c) by replacing lines 17 to 20 on page 70 with the following:

Secrets Act,

and includes any other offence that there are reasonable grounds to believe is a criminal organization offence;

The question being put on the amendment, it was adopted.

Clause 81, as amended, carried.

Clause 82 carried.

Clause 83 carried.

The Title carried.

The Bill, as amended, carried.

ORDERED, -- That Bill C-24, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (organized crime and law enforcement) and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, as amended, be reprinted for the use of the House of Commons at Report Stage.

ORDERED, -- That the Chair report Bill C-24, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (organized crime and law enforcement) and to make consequential amendments to other Acts with amendments to the House as the Third Report of the Committee.

At 10:00 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Catherine Barrette / Roger Préfontaine

 


Clerk(s) of the Committee