FINA Committee Meeting

STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE

COMITÉ PERMANENT DES FINANCES

EVIDENCE

[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]

Thursday, May 13, 1999

• 0917

[English]

The Chairman (Mr. Maurizio Bevilacqua (Vaughan—King—Aurora, Lib.)): I'd like to call the meeting to order.

Everybody knows that today we're dealing with clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-67. Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of clause 1 is postponed.

Can I have permission from the members to deal with the clauses for which there are no amendments in blocks?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

(Clauses 2 to 10 inclusive agreed to)

The Chairman: If you turn to the last page of your package, you'll see that for clause 11 there is a government amendment, G-11, which is moved by Ms. Carolyn Bennett. Ms. Bennett.

Ms. Carolyn Bennett (St. Paul's, Lib.): I move that Bill C-67 and clause 33 be amended by replacing in the French version line 19 on page 17 with the following—

The Chairman: Hold on just one second. I apologize. That's a mistake. That amendment is not for clause 11. Sorry about that. This should be under clause 33.

(Clauses 11 to 21 inclusive agreed to on division)

The Chairman: We're dealing with government amendment G-1. That's a new clause, actually, 21.1.

• 0920

Ms. Carolyn Bennett: This is a new clause 21.1 on page seven of the bill. I move that Bill C-67 be amended by adding after line 46 on page 7 the following:

21.1 Subsection 413(5) of the Act, as enacted by section 43 of An Act to amend certain laws relating to financial institutions, being chapter 15 of the Statutes of Canada, 1997, is replaced by the following:

Definition of “deposit”

(5) For the purpose of subsection (3), “deposit” has the meaning that would be given to it by the schedule to the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation Act for the purposes of deposit insurance if that schedule were read without reference to subsections 2(2), (5) and (6) of that schedule, but does not include prescribed deposits.

Regulations

(6) The Governor in Council may make regulations (a) prescribing the deposits referred to in subsection (5); and (b) prescribing terms and conditions with respect to the acceptance of those deposits.

(Amendment agreed to)

(Clauses 22 to 28 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 29)

The Chairman: On clause 29 we have government amendment G-2. Whenever you want me to dispense with the reading of the amendments, just let me know.

Ms. Bennett.

Ms. Carolyn Bennett: I so move.

(Amendment agreed to—See Minutes of Proceedings)

(Clause 29 as amended agreed to on division)

The Chairman: On clause 30 we have amendment G-3. Shall we dispense?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

(Amendment agreed to—See Minutes of Proceedings)

(Clause 30 as amended agreed to)

(Clauses 31 and 32 agreed to)

The Chairman: We have amendment G-11 on clause 33.

Ms. Carolyn Bennett: That was the one I began to read before, Mr. Chair.

The Chairman: That's right.

An hon. member: Dispense.

(Amendment agreed to—See Minutes of Proceedings)

(Clause 33 as amended agreed to on division)

(Clause 34 agreed to)

The Chairman: We have a number of amendments on clause 35, G-4 to G-8. Ms. Bennett.

Ms. Carolyn Bennett: I move that Bill C-67 in clause 35—

The Chairman: Shall we dispense?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

The Chairman: Okay. Shall amendment—

[Translation]

Mr. Yvan Loubier (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, BQ): Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a question.

[English]

The Chairman: Yes.

[Translation]

Mr. Yvan Loubier: As I was saying to my Reform colleague a bit earlier, at the end of most of the proposed amendments, it seems the Governor in Council is always given the power to make the necessary changes in the future, if need be. Is it normal to include such provisions? This way of doing things seems rather unusual to me. You could introduce any kind of bill and adopt any kind of item definition included in the definition of foreign bank deposits, but in the end you will always allow the Governor in Council to make the changes that might be necessary along the way. Such provisions mean that the bill seems very open to me.

[English]

The Chairman: That's a good question.

Ms. Bennett.

Ms. Carolyn Bennett: I think the approach is to say that with regulations following, there are going to be some specifics. I think this has to do with what would be described as a sophisticated depositor, so that the regulations will lay that out very specifically. But I think there is a consensus as to what sophisticated depositors are. It was part of the hearings we've had over the last few days. They include such things as governments, pension funds, some of those things. It's just a matter that the regulations will tell us exactly what those are.

(Amendments agreed to—See Minutes of Proceedings)

(Clause 35 as amended agreed to on division)

(Clauses 36 to 100 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 101)

The Chairman: We have amendment G-9 on clause 101. Ms. Bennett.

• 0925

Ms. Carolyn Bennett: I move that Bill C-67 in clause 101 be amended by (a) replacing line 20 on page 111 with the following:

26.01 (1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3),

and adding the following—

The Chairman: Can we dispense? Okay.

(Amendment agreed to—See Minutes of Proceedings)

(Clause 101 as amended agreed to)

(Clauses 102 to 107 inclusive agreed to on division)

(On clause 108—Included moneys)

The Chairman: On clause 108, we have government amendment 10. Ms. Bennett, you can read this one in its entirety, please.

Ms. Carolyn Bennett: I move that Bill C-67, in clause 108, be amended by replacing, in the English version, line 37 on page 113 with the following:

is a deposit. The moneys are considered to be

(Amendment agreed to)

(Clause 108 as amended agreed to)

(Clauses 109 to 127 inclusive agreed to on division)

The Chairman: On clause 128, Mr. Loubier would like a vote par appel nominal.

[Translation]

Mr. Yvan Loubier: I intend to present an amendment to clause 128 when the bill is returned to the House to allow for reciprocity in the federal-provincial treatment of provincial charter institutions, or federal charter institutions operating on provincial territory.

[English]

(Clause 128 agreed to: yeas 7; nays 2)

(Clauses 129 to 180 inclusive agreed to on division)

The Chairman: Shall clause 1 carry?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

The Chairman: Shall the title carry?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

The Chairman: Shall the bill carry?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

The Chairman: Shall I report the bill to the House as amended?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

The Chairman: Shall the committee order a reprint for use at report stage?

Some hon. members: Agreed.

The Chairman: Thank you very much.

Before you leave, as always, I'm very grateful to the members of the committee, the clerk, and the staff who work to make these things possible—and of course to the officials. Thank you very much. Without your support this would not be possible.

Mr. Loubier.

[Translation]

Mr. Yvan Loubier: Before the officials leave, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask them one last question. I was reading yesterday in the newspaper that the Canadian Bar Association has certain reservations about the bill, including the section on the application of provincial regulations to foreign banks, while Canadian charter banks will not be subject to those regulations. Out of curiosity, I would like to know what your reply is to those who raise this issue.

[English]

Mr. Charles Secto (Director, Financial Sector Directorate, Department of Finance): This is a question about whether we should have included the foreign branches in schedule 2 of the Bank Act—with all the schedule 2 banks in the same schedule. They are proposing we should do that.

In the bill we have created a new schedule with foreign bank branches. We have spoken to all the provinces at the officials' level and said this is a new category of banks. It's not similar to the schedule 2 banks because these are branches that are different from schedule 2, which are Canadian banks.

• 0930

We have told them they should have the same powers generally, with the exception of deposit-taking—retail deposits in the case of full-service branches, and no deposits at all in the case of lending branches. These are different; they should have exactly the same powers. So we've asked the provinces to review their legislation and make the appropriate changes.

The Canadian Bar Association proposed that we should have put everything into schedule 2 and then forced the provinces to react. We thought the better way to go was to create a new schedule and ask the provinces to give them the same powers.

[Translation]

Mr. Yvan Loubier: Very well, I understand things more clearly. Thank you.

[English]

The Chairman: Thank you, Mr. Loubier.

Once again, thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.