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    <DocumentName>EVIDENCE</DocumentName>
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    <ExtractedItem Name="InstitutionDebate">Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="Number">NUMBER 025</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="Session">2nd SESSION</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="Parliament">43rd PARLIAMENT</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="Date">Monday, April 19, 2021</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="DateOtherLang">Le lundi 19 avril 2021</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="Institution">Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="Country">CANADA</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="RecordingNote">[Recorded by Electronic Apparatus]</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="HeaderTitle">EVIDENCE</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="HeaderDate">April 19, 2021</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="MetaDocumentCategory">Committee</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="MetaTitle">NUMBER 025</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="MetaTitleEn">NUMBER 025</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="MetaTitleFr">NUMÉRO 025</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="MetaNumberNumber">25</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="MetaDateNumDay">19</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="MetaDateNumMonth">04</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="MetaDateNumYear">2021</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="MetaCreationTime">2021/04/19 11:00:00</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="MetaInstitution">House Of Commons</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="InstitutionDebateFr">Comité permanent du patrimoine canadien</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="InstitutionDebateEn">Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="Acronyme">CHPC</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="SpeakerTitle">Chair</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="SpeakerName">Mr. Scott Simms</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="SessionNumber">2</ExtractedItem>
    <ExtractedItem Name="ParliamentNumber">43</ExtractedItem>
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  <HansardBody>
    <OrderOfBusiness>
      <CatchLine />
      <SubjectOfBusiness>
        <SubjectOfBusinessContent>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="00">(1100)</Timestamp>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11242960">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair (Mr. Scott Simms (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, Lib.))</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640037"> I call this meeting to order.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640038">Welcome back, everyone.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640039">This is meeting number 25 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. Pursuant to the order of reference of February 16, the committee resumes clause-by-clause consideration of Bill <Document DbId="10926636" Type="3">C-10</Document>, which we started on Friday and will continue today in a two-hour format.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640040">As a note, as you know, we had a motion passed a few weeks ago in regard to seeking out extra time, if possible, for the consideration of Bill <Document DbId="10926636" Type="3">C-10</Document>. In terms of advance notice for this coming Friday—if we have to carry this over to Friday—I'll be scheduling a three-hour meeting once again. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640041">All right. We'll do the same timing as last time. Of course, we're still in a hybrid format. I forgot to mention this the last time, by the way, but screenshots, taking photos of your screen, are not permitted. I know that you may already know this, but I just thought I'd add that.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640042">Also, we've been good so far, but please don't speak until I recognize you by name. It's not because I want to feel intoxicated with all the power of being a chair; rather, it's to allow our committee Hansard the opportunity to make things all right in their world. As I said before, it can sometimes be confusing enough in person, so you can imagine it in this hybrid format. I shouldn't even say “hybrid”, because we're all online, with the exception of staff, so I guess we're going completely virtual.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640043">I want to say just one other thing. We made a slight change last time in the voting on how we proceed on carrying—or not—each individual clause or amendment. To recap how this works, I will ask if it carries. I'll say, “Does the amendment carry?” If I'm met with silence, then it will carry. If you want to support it or oppose it, but you don't want to go to a recorded vote, you have two options. You can say “on division” or “carried on division”, or you can say “negatived on division”. If you say that, if you say “negatived on division” or “carried on division”, and someone else says “no” or “yes”, I will automatically go to a recorded vote.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640044">Thank you, Mr. Housefather. I think you helped us out there last time.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640045">I think that's a fairly good system. We've used it only once. In case you don't want to go to a recorded vote and you want to move on, you now have the option of—remember—“carried on division” or “negatived on division”. Thank you.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640046">For the folks who are watching this from outside our virtual room here with those of us on the webcast, I'm going to do one explanatory thing. When we do the clauses, within the clauses most everyone has submitted possible amendments for consideration. Whether they're ruled in order or not, that's something else. We're going to go in order from number one up to the end of the amendments that are coming in. We have amendments by six different groups. We have amendments by “PV”. You have PV-1 from the <I>Parti vert</I>, which is the Green Party. We also have LIB-1 or LIB-2, and these are amendments by the Liberal members on the committee. “CPC” represents the Conservative Party members on this committee. “BQ” represents the Bloc Québécois member on the committee. NDP-1 or NDP-2 are amendments by the NDP member on the committee. The final category is G, and yes, we do get to do government amendments. We have a few of them here. They will be G-1, G-2 and so on.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640047">(On clause 2)</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640048">
                <B>The Chair:</B> That being said, let's get going. When we last left off, we were at NDP-7. Is everybody ready to go on that? We were dealing with the subamendment by Mr. Housefather.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640049">To pick this up again, Mr. Housefather, can I call on you to start?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243008">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather (Mount Royal, Lib.)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640050">Certainly, Mr. Chairman, but I believe there have been some discussions that may just.... Can I withdraw the subamendment?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="05">(1105)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243010">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640051">Yes, you can, by all means.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243012">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640052">I'll withdraw the subamendment.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243014">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640053">I'm seeing no dissension about that. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640054">(Subamendment withdrawn)</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640055">
                <B>The Chair:</B> We now go back to the main amendment, NDP-7.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640056">Ms. Dabrusin.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243015">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin (Toronto—Danforth, Lib.)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640057"> Thank you, Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640058">I would like to propose a subamendment to NDP-7. The first part of this subamendment would be to proposed paragraph (f). It would insert the word “production” after “and other human resources in the creation” and then it would say “, production and presentation of programming”.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640059">Then after “presentation of programming”, I would add “unless the nature of the service provided by the undertaking, such as specialized content or format or the use of languages other than French and English, renders that use impractical, in which case the undertaking shall make the greatest practicable use of those resources”.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640060">The subamendment would go on to proposed paragraph (f.1) of NDP-7 to add, after the words “and other human resources”, “and shall contribute in an equitable manner to strongly support the creation, production and presentation of Canadian programming”.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243026">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640061">You certainly have had a discussion. That's quite an amendment.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640062">I'm going to have to slow things down a bit, because I can only imagine that there are several pens and perhaps keyboards tapping feverishly to get in what you just said. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640063">Was there something submitted in writing, Ms. Dabrusin?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243032">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640064">No. I wish I could say yes, but this is Monday morning, so no, I do not have it in writing. I am happy to read it again if necessary.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243034">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640065">I'm turning to either our clerk or legislative clerk to see if they need a bit of time. I know what I can do in the meantime. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640066">Let's talk to our legislative clerk. Do you have any questions?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243037">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla (Legislative Clerk)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640067">Usually, it is required to have a written version of all amendments and subamendments, particularly in this case, where it's such a long one, unless you're willing to repeat it several times, so that we can make sure we have it at the right place and with the right wording.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243042">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640068"> Just before you do that, Ms. Dabrusin, is there any way that you can communicate with Philippe in writing with that? I say that, because I can actually buy some time. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640069">I forgot to introduce our special guests from Canadian Heritage. While I do that, how about you, in the middle of a subamendment, have a subconversation about passing on some of this material, so that we can ingest it as we now take it from the floor. We don't have it in writing at this point. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640070">Ms. McPherson, should I go to you first, or would you rather wait until the text is in?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243047">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264465" Type="47">Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640071">I can send the text if that's necessary. If Julie has it and can send it, that would be fine too.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243050">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640072">Ms. Dabrusin, go ahead.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243052">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640073">I can send it if I could have Mr. Méla's appropriate email address.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243053">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640074">Mr. Méla, do you want to send your email address to her?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243055">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640075">Yes, I was going to suggest that. I could send it to Ms. Dabrusin's P9 account.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243058">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640076">Thank you.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640077">In the meantime, as I mentioned, I overlooked doing this, and to our special guests, that's no reflection on the service that you provide this country. You have my apologies. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640078">If you're watching our webcast, I want to welcome once again Thomas Owen Ripley, director general, broadcasting, copyright and creative marketplace; Drew Olsen, senior director, marketplace and legislative policy; Kathy Tsui, manager of industry and social policy, broadcasting, copyright and creative marketplace; and Patrick Smith, senior analyst, marketplace and legislative policy. He did a smash-up job last Friday, and here he is again doing much of the same.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640079">We welcome all of you once more, as we call upon you at this important time.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640080">Mr. Shields.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="10">(1110)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243063">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264360" Type="47">Mr. Martin Shields (Bow River, CPC)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640081">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640082">As we're waiting for it, perhaps Ms. Dabrusin could clarify her rationale for the changes. As we don't see it in front of us, maybe she can do that.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243065">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640083">It's probably difficult for her to type and talk at the same time, I would imagine.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640084">Ms. Dabrusin, go ahead.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243071">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640085">There are a couple of reasons. The first part was to add “production”. That's a pretty simple one. I don't think that needs much conversation.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640086">The other part was to not have an unintended consequence. The wording that we're actually bringing back in is already in the original Broadcasting Act. We're bringing that back. It's to make sure we're not having an unintended consequence on services that do not produce in French and English—like in third languages—so they wouldn't be able to fit with these rules. Those are the primary ones. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640087">The part about strong support for the creation, production and presentation of Canadian programming is just strengthening the importance of Canadian stories and music and making sure we're supporting that. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243081">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264360" Type="47">Mr. Martin Shields</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640088">Thank you. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243083">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640089">Thank you for that, Ms. Dabrusin. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640090">We'll wait for confirmation on receiving the text.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640091">Does everybody have a genuine understanding of what's being proposed in this subamendment?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640092">Mr. Waugh. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243085">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264359" Type="47">Mr. Kevin Waugh (Saskatoon—Grasswood, CPC)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640093">Thank you, Mr. Chair. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640094">As you said on Friday, NDP-7 would replace the BQ-5. Is that right? We also had G-2, which was not carried on Friday. If this subamendment to NDP-7 passed, we would not look at BQ-5. Is that right?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243087">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640095">Thank you for that question. Let me clarify. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640096">If NDP-7 is adopted, BQ-5 cannot be moved due to a line conflict.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640097">On Friday there was a proposed subamendment, but that has been withdrawn by Mr. Housefather. Here we are now with Ms. Dabrusin's subamendment for NDP-7.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640098">Ms. Dabrusin. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243089">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640099">Thank you. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640100">The other thing that I was hoping to highlight—and someone who is francophone might be able to help me more with this—is that my understanding is that the choice of words in the French part of NDP-7 does not reflect the strength of the English language chosen in the translation. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640101">I'm trying to zero in on the exact words, but I wanted to highlight that. Maybe someone else can speak to it. If the English language translation can be given prominence or precedence, then the French can be translated from that. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243090">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640102">I'm going to turn to Mr. Méla on this one. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243091">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640103">Thank you, Mr. Chair. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640104">It's hard for me to debate the language. I assume the amendment has been drafted in English to start with and been translated by specialized people—legal translators—in-house. I don't think I can comment on the content in terms of French versus English. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243094">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640105">Because it's a subamendment from the floor, we're going to repeat it just to make sure we have this right in both languages, in the absence of the written form. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640106">Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243098">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640107">I wanted to provide my modest linguistic contribution on the difference that may be perceived between the meaning of the English version and that of the French version. This is actually a question we wanted to put to Mr. Méla.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640108">Pardon me, I'll find the page in question and get right back to you.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="15">(1115)</Timestamp>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243102">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640109">Thank you. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640110">Once again I stress the importance of doing this from the floor.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640111">Mr. Champoux, do you have what you're looking for?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243103">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640112">Yes, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640113">So the English version reads as follows:</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640114">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara Align="Left" IndentFirst="2" IndentRest="2">each foreign online undertaking shall make the greatest practicable use of Canadian creative</QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640115">The French version states:</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640116">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara Align="Left" IndentFirst="2" IndentRest="2">les entreprises étrangères en ligne sont tenues de faire appel dans toute la mesure possible</QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640117">It states "dans toute la mesure possible" in order to emphasize the intent.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640118">Can Mr. Méla reassure us as to the degree of intent conveyed in the French version, which we feel is somewhat less strong than in the English version?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243110">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640119"> I see what you're saying. This is a measure of intent not interpretation. I understand.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640120">I don't know if Mr. Méla is available to comment on that right now.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243113">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640121">It looks the same to me, but then again, you have to keep in mind that the translation has to take into consideration what has been used in the whole bill and in the amendment as well. Maybe that language is used elsewhere in the bill and that's why it was used there. All in all, it appears to be of the same strength and value.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243118">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640122">Mr. Champoux, I'm going to ask you to respond to that.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640123">I'd like to get your comfort level on this before we proceed.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640124">Go ahead.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243120">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640125">I wanted to hear Mr. Méla's opinion to assure me that the CRTC would interpret the act in exactly the same way in English and in French. My impression was that the English version was slightly stronger than the French version. That's why I had reservations about the French version. However, if Mr. Méla is confirming that the two versions will be interpreted in the same way, then I'm reassured.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243125">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640126">Okay. Let's go back and get an update, because I would really like to read this into the record one more time, because we're doing this from the floor as opposed to in writing.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640127">Mr. Méla, I'm going to gauge your comfort level before I go to Ms. Dabrusin to read the subamendment once again.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243129">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640128">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640129">I have the subamendment, once included in the amendment. I can read that if that is better?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243131">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640130">Okay. Go ahead.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243133">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640131">Proposed paragraph (f) would read as follows: “each Canadian broadcasting undertaking shall employ and make maximum use, and in no case less than predominant use, of Canadian creative and other human resources in the creation, production and and presentation of programming, unless the nature of the service provided by the undertaking, such as specialized content or format or the use of languages other than French and English, renders that use impractical, in which case the undertaking shall make the greatest practicable use of those resources”.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640132">Proposed paragraph (f.1) would read as follows: “each foreign online undertaking shall make the greatest practicable use of Canadian creative and other human resources and shall contribute in an equitable manner to strongly support the creation, production and presentation of Canadian programming in accordance with the objectives of the broadcasting policy set out in this subsection and taking into account the linguistic duality of the market they serve”.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243140">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640133">I guess we don't need Ms. Dabrusin to repeat it. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640134">Is everybody at a comfort level with this?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640135">Ms. McPherson.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243141">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264465" Type="47">Ms. Heather McPherson</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640136">I think it might have been a small error, but when he was reading proposed paragraph (f), he said “prominent” and not “predominant”.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640137">I want to clarify that it is in fact “predominant” and not “prominent”. I think it was a small error.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243144">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640138">Yes, it is “predominant”.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640139">I will just add that my colleague just checked the act, and indeed, the point that Mr. Champoux was putting forward is translated in the act in the same way.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="20">(1120)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243147">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640140">That's excellent work.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640141">Thank you, legislative clerks. How you manage to keep this language in your head, moving around, and to make of sense of it is always beyond me. Now is an appropriate time to say thank you for all that you do.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640142">That being said, Ms. McPherson, are you finished? Okay.</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640143">Go ahead, Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243149">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640144">Would I be testing the committee's patience if I asked Mr. Méla to read the amendment in French as it would be altered by the subamendment?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243151">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640145">Yes, you would, because I don't have the French version. I apologize.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243153">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640146">There's no need.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243154">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640147">This kind of puts us in an awkward situation, obviously, with a translation from the floor. Because we do not have it in writing, it becomes difficult to do, Mr. Champoux. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640148">Were you okay with the interpretation as you heard it?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243157">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640149">I listened to it in the original language, Mr. Chair. I wanted to hear it read in English first because I thought we would also read it in French. I now know that Mr. Méla didn't have the French version. I have it before me. Does the committee wish me to read it, or will we rely on the legislative drafters' translation?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243161">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640150">To see that you're at a comfortable level, would you like to go ahead and read that, Mr. Champoux?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243162">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640151">Yes.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243351">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640152">Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt, but once Mr. Champoux reads that into the record, it will become the translation of the amendment. The office of the law clerk won't be able to provide a new one. This is said to make sure that we know what we're doing.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243165">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640153">Mr. Champoux, bearing there's no conflict, of course, between the two, I offer you the chance to read it in French if you want to. Why don't you go ahead?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243167">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640154">Knowing that the version I read here will be the official version puts me under pressure. My colleagues may prefer to rely on the drafters and translators. I wouldn't dare take the initiative at this stage without my colleagues' approval, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243172">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640155">Okay, that sounds like a good idea.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640156">Mr. Housefather.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243174">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640157">I simply want to say that I trust Mr. Champoux's translation and that I would be pleased to have him read the French version of the amendment as it would be amended. I also think it's important to read the French version before adopting such a substantial amendment. That's why I'd like him to read it.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243175">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640158">Mr. Champoux, things seem to be coming back to you.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243176">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640160">Then here I go. The French version would read as follows:</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640161">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara IndentRest="2" IndentFirst="2"> f) les entreprises de radiodiffusion canadiennes sont tenues d'employer des ressources humaines — créatrices et autres — canadiennes et de faire appel à celles-ci au maximum, et dans tous les cas au moins de manière prédominante, pour la création, la production et la présentation de leur programmation, à moins qu'une telle pratique ne s'avère difficilement réalisable en raison de la nature du service — notamment, son contenu ou format spécialisé ou l'utilisation qui y est faite de langues autres que le français ou l'anglais — qu'elles fournissent, auquel cas elles devront faire appel aux ressources en question dans toute la mesure du possible;</QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640159">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara IndentRest="2" IndentFirst="2">f.1) les entreprises étrangères en ligne sont tenues de faire appel dans toute la mesure du possible aux ressources humaines — créatrices et autres — canadiennes et de contribuer fortement, de façon équitable, à la création, la production et la présentation de programmation canadienne selon les objectifs de la politique canadienne de radiodiffusion en tenant compte de la dualité linguistique du marché qu’elles desservent; <Query /></QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243181">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640162">Okay.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640163">Mr. Housefather, your hand is up. Did you want to speak again?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243183">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640164">I'd actually like to comment on my colleague's intent.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640165">Mr. Champoux, I believe you added a word that doesn't appear in the text of the amendment, which reads as follows:</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640166">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara Align="Left" IndentFirst="2">f.1) les entreprises étrangères en ligne sont tenues de faire appel dans toute la mesure possible…</QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640167">You read, "dans toute la mesure du possible." I don't believe the word "du" appears before the word "possible" in the text of the amendment.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243184">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640168">You're right. Thank you for correcting me.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="25">(1125)</Timestamp>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243185">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640169">Mr. Champoux, hang on one second.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640170">Folks, thank you very much, but again, I ask everyone to try to do this through the chair so I can identify who's speaking for those taking the record.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640171">There's one other thing. I'm not saying you folks did this, but when we read things off paper, we tend to speak much quicker. I ask, when you're reading from a paper, to please slow down. That was a valiant effort. It's not that you made a mistake; don't get me wrong. I do it too sometimes, so I'm reminding myself as well as you.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640172">Is there any further conversation on this?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640173">Mr. Champoux, I see your hand is up. Do you want to speak again?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243187">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640174">I simply wanted to point out that Mr. Housefather was correct. The exact wording is "dans toute la mesure possible," not "dans toute la mesure du possible." That was my mistake.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243188">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640175"> I'm glad we have that clear.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243189">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640176">Pardon me, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243191">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640177">Is there any further discussion on what is proposed in the subamendment by Ms. Dabrusin?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243196">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640178"> Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt again.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640179">In the act, the same language is indicated as </ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText Continuation="True" id="6640180">"dans toute la mesure du possible".</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640181">If Mr. Champoux agrees, we can write "dans toute la mesure du possible".</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243197">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640182">Go ahead, Mr. Champoux</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243198">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640183">Mr. Chair, I thought I did it right the first time. So, yes, I entirely agree.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243200">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640184">Thank you.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243201">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640185"> Is there any further discussion?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640186">Seeing none, we'll now go on to the vote. This is the subamendment of NDP-7, as put forward by Madam Dabrusin. I understand that everyone has a general comprehension of this now—or, at least, for goodness' sake I hope so. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640187">Shall the subamendment carry?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640188">(Subamendment agreed to)</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640189">
                <B>The Chair:</B> Now we go back to the main amendment, NDP-7, which is on page 24 of your document.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640190">Seeing no further discussion, we will go to a vote. Shall NDP-7 as amended carry?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640191">(Amendment as amended agreed to)</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243203">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640192"> Now with NDP-7 adopted, that means BQ-5 cannot be moved because of the line conflict. I don't think I need to explain “line conflict”. We went through this last time.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640193">Let's move on now to BQ-6.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640194">Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243208">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640195">Mr. Chair, the purpose of the amendment moved is to remove any mention of programming control. We think that persons carrying on broadcasting undertakings should be responsible for the programs they broadcast, period.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243209">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640196">Do we have any discussion on BQ-6?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640197">Ms. Ien.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243210">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="270529" Type="47">Ms. Marci Ien (Toronto Centre, Lib.)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640198">Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640199">Thank you to my colleague for bringing this forward.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640200">We see BQ-6 as similar to NDP-6, which we have already discussed. We think, at this point, this is not the place to discuss user-generated content. We don't feel that it should not be regulated. Our government has been very clear on this point. We are going to bring forward a bill that deals with this, and we look forward to debating that in the House on the floor. However, at this point, this is something that we don't feel is necessary or appropriate.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243222">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640201">I don't share my colleague's opinion, Mr. Chair, because we know that online undertakings and social media control their programming and the content that is distributed, and that their control is much greater than they dare admit. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640202">I believe there's good reason to include provisions respecting broadcasting in the Broadcasting Act. I don't think the nature of distributed content will conflict with these provisions or those of any future act. In any case, we can't offer an opinion on that act since it's not yet on the table.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640203">I think it's important that online undertakings, including social media, accept responsibility for distributed content to the extent they can do so. I needn't remind you of the many recent examples of distribution of user-generated content that could have been avoided. Full coverage of tragic stories has been broadcast and is still available on certain parts of the web. It's our duty to regulate that as best we can now, without waiting for the next act.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="30">(1130)</Timestamp>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243231">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640204"> Ms. Ien, I see that your hand is up. Do you want to comment further?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243232">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="270529" Type="47">Ms. Marci Ien</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640205">I do. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640206">If my honourable colleague needs more on this, I would love to go to our government representatives to provide that clarity as to why we want to separate this at this time. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243233">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640207">Okay.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640208">As we normally do, I'm going to ask not for a virtual hand but perhaps for an actual hand in this world.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640209">Mr. Ripley, would you like to respond?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243235">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="272100" Type="28">Mr. Thomas Owen Ripley (Director General, Broadcasting, Copyright and Creative Marketplace, Department of Canadian Heritage)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640210"> Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640211">Thank you for the question. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640212">As the committee is aware, one of the objectives of Bill <Document DbId="10926636" Type="3">C-10</Document> is to clarify and enlarge the definition of “broadcasting” to clearly include online undertakings. This clarification around programming under their control has been included to clarify that or to recognize the fact that in some instances now, moving forward, you will have online undertakings that are distributing content generated by other users. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640213">From the government's perspective, striking out the limitation with respect to programming under their control would mean that those undertakings, when they are distributing the content of others, would be responsible for that content even though they may not have played any role necessarily in the editorial control of it. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640214">Thank you, Mr. Chair. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243237">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640215">Mr. Champoux. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243238">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640216">I entirely understand the arguments raised by the departmental representatives and my colleague. However, platforms can take many steps to prevent excesses such as those we've previously witnessed.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640217">I think platforms should have a minimum level of responsibility for distributed content, regardless of its source. Even if content is generated by users, the fact remains that platforms must ensure that content generated by their subscribers meets standards.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640218">Consequently, I don't think we're suggesting here that Facebook is entirely responsible for editorial content, but the platforms must nevertheless have some responsibility for that content. We have to compel them to react quickly and much more significantly than they've recently done.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640219">So the act must be tougher in that respect. That's why we have to ensure that platforms have some responsibility for programming.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243249">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640220">I see no further discussion, so we will proceed to the vote. Again, I remind everybody that we are voting on amendment BQ-6 in your documents. You've just heard the discussion.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640221">We're going to go to a recorded vote. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640222">(Amendment negatived: nays 9; yeas 2 [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>])</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640223">
                <B>The Chair:</B> Now, folks, we move on to amendment BQ-7.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640224">Just for your information and with no particular ruling in place, amendments BQ-7, PV-9 and CPC-3 all deal with the same subject. That's just so that you're all aware of that as we deliberate on this particular amendment, BQ-7.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640225">Mr. Champoux. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="35">(1135)</Timestamp>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243275">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640226">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640227">The purpose of amendment BQ-7 is simply to add to paragraph 3(1)(i) of the act subparagraph 3(1)(i)(i.1), which reads as follows:</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640228">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara Align="Left" IndentRest="2" IndentFirst="2">(i) the programming provided by the Canadian broadcasting system should</QuotePara>
                  <QuotePara Align="Left" IndentRest="3" IndentFirst="3">…</QuotePara>
                  <QuotePara Align="Left" IndentRest="3" IndentFirst="3">(i.1) recognize and support Canada’s linguistic duality by placing significant importance on the creation, production and broadcasting of French language original programs, including those from French linguistic minority communities,</QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243299">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640229">Go ahead, Mrs. Bessette.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243300">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264216" Type="47">Mrs. Lyne Bessette (Brome—Missisquoi, Lib.)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640230">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640231">Thanks to Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640232">We definitely acknowledge the need to protect francophone content. Amendment BQ-7 is a good addition to the amendments brought by my colleague Mr. Housefather. So we'll be voting for it.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243302">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640233"> Do I see any further discussion?</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640234">Go ahead, Mr. Rayes.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243304">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes (Richmond—Arthabaska, CPC)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640235">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640236">My dear colleague Mr. Champoux and I have two very similar amendments. I was going to move mine afterward.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640237">It would be helpful to introduce a subamendment to what you're proposing. The major difference is that my amendment refers to "original French language productions."</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640238">I may be wrong about the words used, but the purpose is to ensure that these are productions that originate here, not just French remakes or francophone content from another country. That could be a good distinction to make.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640239">Wait a minute. Your amendment does refer to "production and broadcasting of French language original programs." My apologies. I just realized my mistake and would like to withdraw what I said.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243307">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640240"> I can assume you're not putting forward a subamendment. Okay.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640241">I see no further discussion. Let us now go to a vote on BQ-7.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640242">(Amendment agreed to [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>])</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640243">
                <B>The Chair:</B> Now we go to PV-8.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640244">Mr. Manly, that would be you, sir.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243312">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly (Nanaimo—Ladysmith, GP)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640245">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640246">The act states that programming provided by the Canadian broadcasting system should “be drawn from local, regional, national and international sources”. This amendment adds language to specify that, at the local level, the system should include programming from community broadcasters specifically.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640247">Community broadcasters should be included because they collaborate with local organizations and community members. They are uniquely positioned to provide varied and comprehensive programming that meets the real needs of different audiences. Community broadcasters are best-suited to meet these criteria compared with other models of production.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640248">This amendment also amends subparagraph 3(1)(i) to replace “men, women and children of all ages” with “people of all ages.” Thank you. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="40">(1140)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243314">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640249">Seeing no further discussion, we now go to a vote on PV-8.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640250">Shall PV-8 carry?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243315">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640251">No.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243319">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640252">Mr. Chair, can we try to use that fancy “on division” thing?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243320">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640253">Yes. I normally wouldn't go to it unless someone were to say it. I don't want to be the one to suggest it, but maybe since you brought it up.... </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640254">Mr. Rayes, would you like a recorded vote?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243322">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640255">Would you repeat the question, Mr. Chair?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243324">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640256">We decided that there were four ways to vote. Silence would be “carried”. You can say “carried on division" or “negatived on division”, or you can do a recorded vote.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243326">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640257">Then I would like the amendment to carry on division.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243327">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640258"> Very good. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640259">(Amendment agreed to on division [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>]</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640260">
                <B>The Chair:</B> We will now go to amendment CPC-2, submitted by Mr. Shields.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640261">Mr. Shields, are you up, sir?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243330">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264360" Type="47">Mr. Martin Shields</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640262">You bet. Thank you, Mr. Chair. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640263">I would just like to return this to the original clause that was in the bill we had previously. It would put the word “national” back in. For some reason, “national” was taken out. I propose that we put it back in so that it covers news and current events “from the local and regional to the national and international”.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640264">In the original bill that we had on the Broadcasting Act, “national” was in it. In this version, the word “national” is taken out. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243340">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640265">Thank you.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640266">Mr. Louis.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243344">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264220" Type="47">Mr. Tim Louis (Kitchener—Conestoga, Lib.)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640267">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640268">As a government, we agree with this. It is a good addition to further support local journalism. We heard from many witnesses on the importance of that. We appreciate the amendment and will be supporting it.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243347">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640269">Is there any further discussion?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640270">Seeing none, we will go to a vote on amendment CPC-2.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640271">(Amendment agreed to [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>]) </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640272">
                <B>The Chair:</B> We will now move to amendment PV-9.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640273">Go ahead, Mr. Manly.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243349">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640274">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640275">This amendment emphasizes the importance of broadcasting and original French-language productions.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243354">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640276">Madam Bessette.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243355">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264216" Type="47">Mrs. Lyne Bessette</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640277">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640278">We've already supported amendments LIB-3 and BQ-7, which are designed to achieve the same purpose as this one. Consequently, we don't think we need to adopt it, but I'd nevertheless like to hear my colleagues' opinions.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243357">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640279">Go ahead, Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243358">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640280">I was about to make the same comment. The proposed amendment is not addressing exactly the same thing, but the idea is the same. So I'll leave it to the experts to tell us whether we need to adopt it as well. Personally, I think that we settled this matter in the other amendments that have already been dealt with.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243360">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640281">Seeing no further discussion, we will now go to a vote.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640282">Shall amendment PV-9 carry?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640283">
                <B>Some hon. members:</B> No.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640284">
                <B>The Chair:</B> We will go to a recorded vote.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243362">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640285">Can it be negatived on division?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243363">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640286">Once again, I'd just like to remind everyone that if you want to do that, I'd prefer you'd bellow that out from the beginning. I can't make the interpretation on whether you want it to be on division or not. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640287">Go ahead, Ms. Dabrusin.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="45">(1145)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243364">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640288">I apologize. Part of the problem is that we're not in the same room. It's a little harder to see what's necessary. That's the only reason. I apologize for the slight delay there.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243365">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640289">Okay. I'll just be a little bit more patient. I will listen for “negatived on division” before I make a judgment. How's that? I'll try to make this move along. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640290">On amendment PV-9, do I hear “negatived on division”?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640291">Okay. I hear no one calling for a recorded vote.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640292">(Amendment negatived on division [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>])</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640293">
                <B>The Chair:</B> That brings us to amendment CPC-3. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640294">Monsieur Rayes. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243370">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640295">Mr. Chair, I think I heard you say earlier that if the Bloc Québécois amendment were to be adopted, amendment CPC-3 would be irrelevant.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243372">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640296"> I'm sorry, Mr. Rayes. I'm going to have to ask you to repeat it because my audio wasn't the best. Go ahead, please.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243374">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640297">Not a problem, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640298">A few moments ago, you said that if the Bloc Québécois amendment were adopted, amendment CPC-3 would no longer be necessary.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243375">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640299">What happens is that it's dealing with the same subject. It's not necessarily the same, unless I'm wrong. I'm going to turn to Mr. Méla to help me out on this one.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640300"> They are dealing with the same subject, Mr. Méla. Do you want to provide a couple more details about the similarities here of BQ-7 and CPC-3?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243379">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="145428" Type="32">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640301">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640302">Yes, indeed. I did highlight the fact that BQ-7, PV-9 and CPC-3 were dealing with the same subject matter. Since one was adopted already, I'm not sure if the new one, CPC-3, is needed or not. This is up to the committee to decide.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243380">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640303">All right. Basically, it is up to us at this point if you want to proceed.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640304">Mr. Rayes, CPC-3 is in your name. You have a choice. You can either move it or not. I'll leave that up to you.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243384">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640305">You can't be too careful, as the saying goes. I will therefore move the amendment, even though I believe that it says essentially the same thing as amendment BQ-7, and the committee can decide.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243386">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640306">Okay. We'll go back to CPC-3. You all have it in front of you. Let's now proceed with discussion. Would anybody like to discuss?</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640307">Ms. Bessette, you have the floor.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243387">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264216" Type="47">Mrs. Lyne Bessette</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640308">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640309">Mr. Rayes, I understand your point that it can't hurt to say it again. However, if everything has been covered in amendment BQ-7, I don't think it's necessary to add what is proposed in amendment CPC-3.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243389">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640310">Okay.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640311">Mr. Housefather, go ahead, please.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243390">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640312">Mr. Chair, the same perspective has been emphasized. I think this was covered in the original Bloc Québécois amendment.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640313"> I just wanted to point out, Mr. Chair, again clearly a logistical question. What PV-9 was meant to replace after line 7 on page 4 in the previous motion was defeated on division. In my view, that would render this one not even admissible given that its content is identical to what we just defeated in the previous amendment.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640314"> I also just mention that for the future, because I think they're two essentially identical amendments in the same place, and once we defeat one, I do believe that the other one at that point is essentially squelched, because we just defeated the exact same content in the same line. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640315">It's for you to consider, Mr. Chair. Otherwise, I'm totally fine to just move to a vote on this.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243394">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640316">Yes, I will consider it, obviously, but I can't technically rule this out under the normal rules and standards of the committee process, so I have to let it proceed. It's more of a judgment on your part as to whether you feel it is similar or not. I leave that to the committee members to decide, as then you're dealing purely with the content level of it. Normally when I negate other amendments, usually it's a line conflict in which there's a substantial change, enough so that I have to make that ruling. In this case, it is not.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640317"> I have to let it proceed, I'm afraid. I understand what you're saying. Content-wise, we're looking at a lot of the same. I had better leave it at that or I'm going to drift into being partial about the content, and I don't want to go there. As your chair, it's not my job.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640318"> Mr. Housefather, thanks for that. I appreciate it.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640319">Do I see any further discussion on CPC-3? Shall CPC-3 carry?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="50">(1150)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243402">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640320">Can I propose that it be negatived on division?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640321">(Amendment negatived on division [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>])</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243405">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640322">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640323">This amendment again addresses the community element. This amendment adds that Canada's broadcasting policy should enable public participation and public dialogue through the community element. The act states that the public should be exposed to “differing views on matters of public concern” and that assumes a private or public sector model of production in which Canadians are a passive audience to content created by a privileged class of journalists and producers. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640324">The community element enables the direct participation of members of the public on matters of public concern. I'm hoping members of the committee will support this. Thank you.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243414">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640325"> Mr. Manly, you've given me some food for thought here. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640326">Folks, I'm going to have to take 30 seconds for a quick clarification. I'm going to suspend for literally under a minute. There is just one thing I need to clarify with our legislative clerk.</ParaText>
              <Pause>
                <StartPause>
                  <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="50">(1150)</Timestamp>
                </StartPause>
                <EndPause>
                  <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="50">(1150)</Timestamp>
                </EndPause>
              </Pause>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243425">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640327">[<I>Technical difficulty—Editor</I>] and the content of what we are discussing whatsoever. This is basically from our <I>House of Commons Procedure and Practice</I>, as you can see here on screen. It does state, on page 770, if you're following along— perhaps you know it by heart—that you have to stay within the principle. It states, “an amendment to a bill that was referred to a committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.”</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640328">All that being said, what we're talking about here, Mr. Manly, and what you're proposing is.... I get the aspect of being a passive audience over the years, and so on and so forth. The issue of direct participation is one that I had to think upon, because it is through the Canadian broadcasting policy.... </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640329">This requires a new concept brought in here to the way it is normally done. I could go on for an hour as to how, but I don't have that time. In the opinion of the chair, PV-10 brings forward that new concept and that is beyond the scope of the bill. I'm ruling on the particular procedure as dictated by the rules of the committee. Unfortunately, Mr. Manly, I have to rule this particular amendment out of order. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640330">We now move on to LIB-4. If LIB-4 is adopted, BQ-8 cannot be moved as they are identical. If LIB-4 is negatived, so is BQ-8 for the same reason. We're talking about LIB-4, but it's also tied to BQ-8, which normally would follow. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640331">With that being said, we're on LIB-4. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640332">Go ahead, Mr. Housefather. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="11" Mn="55">(1155)</Timestamp>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243450">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640333">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640334">I see that I have put forward exactly the same amendment as my colleague Mr. Champoux. We heard the witnesses and moved an amendment to the new paragraph 3(1)(k) proposed in the bill, which is as follows:</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640335">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara Align="Left" IndentFirst="2" IndentRest="2">(k) a range of broadcasting services in English and in French shall be progressively extended to all Canadians;</QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640336">This amendment would simply remove the word "progressively". I believe that these services ought not to be offered progressively, but rather immediately, as soon as possible.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243454">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640337">Do I see any further discussion on LIB-4? </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640338">(Amendment agreed to)</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640339">
                <B>The Chair:</B> Take BQ-8 off your schedule, as it cannot be moved. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640340">We now go to PV-11. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640341">Another note is that, if PV-11 is adopted, G-3 and BQ-9 cannot be moved as they are identical. If PV-11 is negatived, both G-3 and BQ-9 will be negatived as well. By the way, the “G” means it is a government amendment. They are coming up later. Right now we have PV-11. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640342">Go ahead, Mr. Manly. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243464">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640343">Thank you, Mr. Chair. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640344">As written, the bill only provides for programming undertakings carried on by indigenous persons in Canada's broadcasting policy. This excludes online undertakings. This amendment replaces “programming undertakings” with “broadcasting undertakings” so that online undertakings are included by definition. This amendment was recommended by APTN. I hope people support it. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640345">Thank you. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243470">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640346">Do I see any further discussion?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640347">Go ahead, Ms. Ien. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243480">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="270529" Type="47">Ms. Marci Ien</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640348">Thank you, Mr. Chair. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640349">I wanted to thank my honourable colleague for putting this amendment forward. We heard from several witnesses on this, including APTN as he pointed out, and I am in full support of this.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243482">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640350">Seeing no further discussion, shall PV-11 carry?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640351">(Amendment agreed to [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>])</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640352">
                <B>The Chair:</B> As I mentioned earlier, that takes out G-3 as well as BQ-9, as they are identical.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640353">We now move on to PV-12, Mr. Manly.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640354">I'm sorry, Mr. Rayes. I just saw your hand up.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640355">Mr. Manly, I have to go to Mr. Rayes first.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243484">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640356">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640357">Would the committee agree to a short three- or four-minute health break after which work could resume immediately? It would simply be a brief pause to go and fetch something to drink or to go to the bathroom.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243487">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640358">That's a valid point, Mr. Rayes, maybe one that eluded me at the beginning. I should have brought that up. Thank you for putting me back on the right track.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640359">Do I see any objections to using the washroom?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640360">Mr. Manly.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="00">(1200)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243489">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640361">I want to note that I have to reboot my computer. You can see the problem going on with my screen. I need to clear this up. I'm having some issues.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243490">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640362">Yes. At times it seems like the land rover on the planet Mars has better reception than yours. That's no reflection on your abilities. Nevertheless, hopefully we will get it fixed.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243492">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640363">Thanks. I will be right back.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243493">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640364">We're going to suspend, folks, for five minutes or less, please.</ParaText>
              <Pause>
                <StartPause>
                  <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="00">(1200)</Timestamp>
                </StartPause>
                <EndPause>
                  <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="05">(1205)</Timestamp>
                </EndPause>
              </Pause>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243535">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640365">We're going to pick up right where we left off.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640366">We are now going into PV-12.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640367">Go ahead, Mr. Manly. Your reception is much better. Welcome back.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243539">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640368"> Yes, it cleaned right up. I have been having problems with this computer. Thank you, Mr. Chair. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640369">This amendment carries on with the theme that I have about community media. This amendment adds that Canada's broadcasting policy should not only include programming carried on by indigenous persons but also by indigenous community media. It recognizes that indigenous persons and indigenous community media are uniquely positioned to serve indigenous communities. Indigenous community media is an important component of programming that reflects indigenous cultures in Canada. Community media have a lower-cost structure and work to preserve indigenous languages, tell indigenous stories and equip indigenous youth and community members of all ages and digital skills.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640370">I'll note that I was a co-producer on the first preschool show on APTN when it launched. I did 64 episodes of that program in post-production. Many of the people who worked on that programming came out of community media, out of the non-profit world, where they were trained and gained skills and developed careers and went on into the mainstream broadcasting world. It's a really important training ground and a place for cultural expression and identity. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640371">I hope that people will support this amendment as well. Thank you.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243559">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640372">Mr. Louis.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243561">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264220" Type="47">Mr. Tim Louis</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640373">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640374"> I want to commend my colleague for bringing this amendment forward. Though we support the principle of it, my concern is, where do we stop? We want to make sure that this legislation is inclusive and broad, and that the policy and framework enables everyone to be included, but creating small amendments that include some could come at the expense of excluding others.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640375">We don't see the need to have this as a defining portion of the bill, but I'd love to hear further discussion.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243566">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640376">Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243567">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640377">Mr. Chair, I agree with saying that indigenous programming in indigenous languages should be available not only to indigenous populations, but also to the population of Canada in general. I do indeed believe that this would be beneficial for everyone.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640378">I would nevertheless like to ask the legislative clerks or the department's representatives a question. The last portion of the amendment strikes me as superfluous. I'd like to know whether or not it has an impact. If it doesn't, then it wouldn't change anything.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640379">The amendment says, "which are uniquely positioned to serve smaller, remote and urban Indigenous communities". Perhaps this is the phrase to which Mr. Louis was alluding when he said that we might get the impression that the amendment excludes other types of media, whether community or otherwise.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640380">I would therefore like to know whether this short sentence fragment has a particular meaning, or whether it's merely symbolic.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="10">(1210)</Timestamp>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243575">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640381">Mr. Champoux, would you like to go to the Canadian Heritage staff, or were you talking to Mr. Louis?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243578">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640382">I'd like an official from the department to answer my question.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243581">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640383">You'd like to hear from the department.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640384"> Who from the department would like to take this?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640385">We'll go to Mr. Ripley.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243582">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="272100" Type="28">Mr. Thomas Owen Ripley</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640386">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640387">Thank you for your question, Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640388">The current act does not define the value of each component of the broadcasting system. It's made up of private elements, public elements, including CBC/Radio-Canada, Télé-Québec and the Knowledge Network, in addition to some community elements. However, the value of each component is not necessarily defined. It refers to the broadcasting system, broadly speaking, and identifies the objectives to be pursued and the requirements to be met by programming. Nowhere does it specify the roles to be played respectively by the private, public, and community sectors.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243585">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640389"> Mr. Housefather.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243587">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640390">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640391">I have a short question for the department officials. I've noted in this amendment the term “Indigenous community media”. I don't believe these terms appear anywhere or are defined anywhere in the act. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640392">What are the ramification of that, given that we're using terms that are different from “programming” or “broadcasting undertakings”, which seem to be the terms we're using everywhere else?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243592">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="272100" Type="28">Mr. Thomas Owen Ripley</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640393">You're correct. The term “community media” is not defined.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640394">The question for the committee, if it wishes to support the amendment, is whether something like “broadcasting undertakings” might be more appropriate and more aligned with the overall terminology of the act.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Debate" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11245494">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640395">Mr. Manly.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243598">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640396">I thought we had already defined “community media” at the PV-1 level. We agreed to add “community media” to the definition.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640397">If we want to take out the words “Indigenous community media”, because community media is important in small communities.... Northern and remote communities are where cultural expression is expanded upon, where you get elders on television speaking in their indigenous language, and where young children are watching and tuned in to their own culture and traditions.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640398"> Supporting this is important. It's important for the government, as part of its reconciliation process, to ensure there are adequate resources for sharing culture and for cultural revitalization, after a long history of cultural destruction of indigenous peoples.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640399">If you want to have a subamendment to take out the word “Indigenous”, so that it's just “and community media, which are uniquely positioned to serve smaller, remote and urban Indigenous communities”, I would be amenable to that.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243605">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640400">Mr. Rayes.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243607">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640401">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640402">I have a question for the officials.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640403">I believe that the term "community media" is extremely important. Mr. Housefather said that it wasn't used anywhere, but if it's necessary, I would prefer to keep it. I'm not challenging the use of the word "indigenous", which Mr. Manly wanted to use in his amendment, but I think that the term "community media" should be kept, provided that it's defined in the act.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640404">Could the officials tell us whether this is doable?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="15">(1215)</Timestamp>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243613">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640405">We'll go to the department, Mr. Ripley.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243615">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="272100" Type="28">Mr. Thomas Owen Ripley</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640406">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640407">From what I understood of our work last Friday, the term that was defined was "community element". I would just like to point out that the term "media" is not defined anywhere in the act. If we wish to use the broader term, we use "broadcasting undertaking", which includes online undertakings, broadcasters and cable operators. If the committee wants to use the term "community media", then it needs to know that it is not defined in the act. The definition provided in the amendment that was adopted, if I recall correctly, is for "community element".</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243628">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640408">Could I propose an amendment? </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640409">It would read, “carried on by Indigenous persons through the community element, which is uniquely positioned to serve smaller, remote and urban communities.”</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243631">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640410"> Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243633">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640411">If I'm not mistaken, you can't amend your own amendment. I would therefore move a subamendment to Mr. Manly's motion. I just want to make sure beforehand that the meaning of the idea being conveyed is clear.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640412">In view of what Mr. Ripley said earlier, I would suggest that the wording should end with, "through programming undertakings operated by Indigenous persons and community elements".</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640413">Do you think that this subamendment is acceptable?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243640">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640414"> Yes, that's where I was going with that. Thank you for filling that in.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640415">Mr. Manly, I think this is put back to you at this point. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640416">Are you moving a subamendment, Mr. Champoux, or you seeking clarification from Mr. Manly first before you do that?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243642">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640417">I want to make sure that the subamendment I am suggesting is consistent with what Mr. Manly had in mind in moving his amendment.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243644">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640418">Okay, I'll allow that.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243645">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640419">That works for me. I appreciate that. We don't need to go further into the “uniquely positioned” part because I think that is understood. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243648">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640420">Mr. Champoux, for the sake of our legislative clerk, can you repeat yourself, please?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243649">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640421">Mr. Chair, would you like me to read the whole thing, including the subamendment, or just the end portion?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243650">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640422">Actually, could you just tell us what your subamendment is? We'll do that for now. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243651">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640423">Okay.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640424">So the subamendment would delete the wording from "Indigenous community media" until the end, and replace it with "and community elements".</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243652">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640425">Does this bear repeating, or is everyone okay with what was proposed? It's not a big change. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640426">Can I just leave it as what Mr. Champoux explained? </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640427">I think that is sufficient. Would there be any further discussion on the subamendment from Mr. Champoux regarding amendment PV-12?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640428">Seeing no further discussion we will go to a vote.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640429">(Subamendment agreed to)</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640430">(Amendment as amended agreed to [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>])</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640431">
                <B>The Chair:</B> Now we'll move on to PV-13</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640432">Mr. Manly.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="20">(1220)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243663">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640433">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640434">This amendment adds that persons with disabilities should have adequate resources to develop their own community media, and that persons with disabilities can adapt technology and obtain technological support through community media. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640435">Again, you shouldn't be surprised that I do have experience in this area. I've trained people of all kinds of different abilities to work in media, including working with deaf people. I trained them in video production and actually witnessed somebody who is deaf creating a soundtrack by working with vibrations. Just an interesting note, when we did the premiere of that film, he gave everybody a balloon and we listened to the soundtrack through the vibration of the balloon. That's how he learned to go to movies as a child. He happened to go to a movie after a fair, with a balloon in his hand, and that's how he translated the intensity of the sound in the theatre.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640436">With the right kind of technologies, we can have more participation in media by people with diverse abilities. I hope people will consider this, but I do have a little pink note on the side that the chair is going to be talking about this amendment as well. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243670">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640437">Yes, indeed, you're rather prescient.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640438">Again, I said it earlier and I will say it to you now. Given the subject matter and the story you just told, which is a fantastic one, please don't take this in the wrong way, but unfortunately we have to rule this out of order. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640439">This one is a little more straightforward. Actually, it's straight down the middle as to why I cannot...and again, I'll refer back to our rule book that we use here. Specific programming resources to allow for persons with disabilities to develop their own community media is what you're talking about here. Again—no reflection on that—it requires what we call a royal recommendation, and it requires essentially new spending. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640440">The rule book states:</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640441">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara Align="Left" IndentFirst="2" IndentRest="2"> Since an amendment may not infringe upon the financial initiative of the Crown [which is the government or the executive], it is inadmissible if it imposes a charge on the public treasury, or if it extends the objects or purposes or relaxes the conditions and qualifications specified in the royal recommendation.</QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640442"> The amendment that you bring forward, known as PV-13, is a new concept that appears to require a royal recommendation and is not talked about in the original bill. Therefore, I have to rule this amendment to be inadmissible, but I thoroughly enjoyed the story you brought to it.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640443">Thank you, Mr. Manly. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640444">We will now go to amendment PV-14. Mr. Manly, you are up again. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243684">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640445"> Thank you. I'm on a bit of a roll here.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640446">The purpose of this amendment is to describe the role of the community elements in Canada's broadcasting policy. This amendment replaces the description for “alternative television programming services” in the broadcasting policy section of the act with “community elements”.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640447">Very few alternative programming services of the type described in the act actually exist, and the section is never actionable or used in policy-making, yet the description almost exactly fits what the community elements do, so I am hoping that members of the committee will consider this.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640448">Thank you.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243688">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640449">Do I see any discussion?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640450">Mr. Housefather.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243690">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640451">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640452">While I appreciate defining the role of the community elements, which I think is what Mr. Manly is trying to do here, I would point out that I don't believe that the act or the bill actually define any of the elements of the broadcasting system, whether public, private or community. There are some elements in here... For example, in subparagraph 3(1)(q)(iv), we're talking about “non-profit participative structures”, but we, in the definition of “community element”, removed the term “non-profit”.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640453">I would just like to ask the officials what their sense is of how this would intertwine with the rest of the bill and whether they have any comments about it.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640454">Thank you.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243694">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640455">I am just looking to the department for who would like to....</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640456">Ms. Tsui, you have the floor.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243695">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="272124" Type="28">Ms. Kathy Tsui (Manager, Industry and Social Policy, Broadcasting, Copyright and Creative Marketplace Branch, Department of Canadian Heritage)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640457">Yes, that's correct. We spoke about the concern about “non-profit” on Friday. You're absolutely right. In no place in the act does the act provide a definition or define a role for any of the elements of the broadcasting system. You're right that the roles of the private element, the public element and the community element are left undefined.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640458">The non-profit element we discussed. The community element of the broadcasting system does include some for-profit organizations, so this would be a significant change to the act.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="25">(1225)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243704">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640459">Mr. Housefather.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243706">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640460">I just have one additional question for the officials.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640461"> With respect to proposed subparagraph 3(1)(q)(v), “be made available throughout Canada through all platforms available”, would this impose a requirement on companies that simply distribute to include community programming? Does this mean that it would be an obligation on everything? I don't even know how we could impose that.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243709">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="272124" Type="28">Ms. Kathy Tsui</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640462">The term “platform” is also not defined in the act, so we are left unsure about how to interpret proposed subparagraph 3(1)(q)(v).</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640463">It's not clear to me whether this means all platforms, as in any kind of broadcasting undertaking that provides a distribution service, or if this is to refer to any type of platform. Is this meant to mean that community broadcasting should be made available online, over satellite systems, over cable systems? That part of the definition is unclear.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243716">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264465" Type="47">Ms. Heather McPherson</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640464">I just wanted to check with you, Mr. Chair. Assuming that we vote on PV-14, does that mean that NDP-8 would be withdrawn and/or taken away?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243719">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640465">No.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243721">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264465" Type="47">Ms. Heather McPherson</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640466">Okay.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243723">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640467">Go ahead, Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243725">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640468">Mr. Chair, I would not presume to question your answer to Ms. McPherson, but this amendment is very similar and appears to address the same content in the act. Amendment NDP-8 looks to me like a copy and paste operation from the amendment we are currently discussing.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243726">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640469"> Our ruling is no. It's not, entirely. I understand where you're coming from. I truly appreciate it. This is one of those times where I use the expression “we're dancing on the head of the pin”. Nevertheless, as we move on I should be able to provide some more information on that.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640470">Mr. Housefather.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243728">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640471">Thank you, Mr. Chairman.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640472">In culmination of my previous questions, I'm going to vote against because I find a lot of uncertainty is introduced by this amendment. I do believe this would make NDP-8 almost impossible to introduce because of the conflictual terms. I don't know how you would reconcile the two because some things are different and some are the same and written differently.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640473">I'm going to vote against.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243732">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640474">I would be open to subamendments to this because I do understand that the word “non-profit” needs to be removed, because we have already discussed that with earlier amendments. I could see how proposed subparagraph 3(1)(q)(v) would be problematic, but I'm hoping there are parts of this that the committee does see as worthy.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243734">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640475">We are still on PV-14, folks.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640476">Seeing no discussion, I'm going to call for a vote on PV-14.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640477">(Amendment negatived: nays 11; yeas 0 [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>])</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640478">
                <B>The Chair:</B> We are on PV-15.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640479">Mr. Manly.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="30">(1230)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243751">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="252987" Type="2">Mr. Paul Manly</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640480">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640481">This amendment adds that programming provided through community elements should be made available for archival purposes to Library and Archives of Canada as well as local cultural institutions that represent public interest.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640482">Archiving community programming is very important. Forty years of audiovisual archives for over 200 communities have been destroyed since 1991, where there is no other audiovisual record.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640483">I have seen this happen personally without any notification when Shaw took over for Rogers in Victoria. I was over working in Vancouver after doing hours and weeks of programming. It all just went to the landfill. Parts of that were really important chunks of the community record, which had been documented. People were looking for that years later and they were nowhere to be found.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640484"> I have a little pink note on this one as well. I have talked to ministry officials about maybe other avenues for dealing with this. I will let you bring up that pink note that I have.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243763">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640485">You seem to be catching on quite well, Mr. Manly, to how this works.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640486">Indeed, I have to make a ruling on this one. I want to point this out to members.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640487">This, of course, is specific to the passage in PV-15 that says, “made available to the Library and Archives of Canada for archival purposes and to local cultural”.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640488">It turns out that “be made available to [the public through archival means such as] the Library and Archives of Canada” is an amendment that would go beyond the scope of the bill. Again, I refer back to the parent bill, which doesn't provide for that. Therefore, according to our rules and regulations, it's beyond the scope and it certainly is beyond the principle of the bill to proceed any further on PV-15. It does propose a new concept that is beyond the scope, similar to rulings in the past.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640489">Unfortunately, I have to rule that to be inadmissible. That being said, I have to call my dear friend over—the legislative clerk.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640490">Clerk, could I suspend for one minute or less just to clarify one thing?</ParaText>
              <Pause>
                <StartPause>
                  <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="30">(1230)</Timestamp>
                </StartPause>
                <EndPause>
                  <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="35">(1235)</Timestamp>
                </EndPause>
              </Pause>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243794">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640491"> Thank you. We're back.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640492">I was just seeking some clarification, folks. Thank you for being patient. That, of course, was PV-15, which we ruled inadmissible. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640493">We now go on to BQ-10.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640494">Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243799">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640495">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640496">With amendment BQ-10, we want to make sure that online undertakings that provide programming services from other broadcasting undertakings should ensure their discoverability. We therefore want Canadian programming services, original Canadian content, and French- language original content, to be promoted and discoverable in an equitable proportion compared to anglophone and foreign content. We also want to ensure that reasonable terms are provided for the carriage, packaging and retailing of those programming services provided to online undertakings by other broadcasting undertakings under contractual arrangements.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640497">We want to give our industry this additional assurance.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243810">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640498">Okay.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640499">Mr. Shields.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243813">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264360" Type="47">Mr. Martin Shields</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640500">Thank you.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640501">For clarification, when you have the words “equitable proportion”, can you define what you mean, Mr. Champoux?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243819">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640502">How about we go to Mr. Champoux first, and then we'll go to Ms. Ien.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640503">Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243820">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640504">As for the expression "in an equitable proportion", what we wish to maintain here is the proportion in which we will generally make way for francophone content and original content. I believe that it's simply a reference to what will be determined as an equitable proportion within the overall application of the act.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640505">Mr. Méla could perhaps give us more details about the subtleties of the language, but that at least is what I understand it to mean.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243824">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640506">Ms. Ien, thank you for your patience.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640507">We're going to Mr. Méla first, since the question was put to him, and then we'll go to Ms. Ien.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640508">Mr. Méla, are you there?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243830">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640509"> I am.</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640510">Could Mr. Champoux repeat the question? I'm not sure that I understood.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243834">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640511">Certainly.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640512">Mr. Shields Was asking for details about the equitable proportion concept for original Canadian content, including French language original content.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640513">I told Mr. Shields that the equitable proportion concept was related to what would be considered in the application of the act to be equitable proportions for Canadian content and francophone content.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640514">Is this a satisfactory answer to the question?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Debate" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244160">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640515">Mr. Méla.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243840">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640516">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640517">I'm a legislative clerk, and questions about content and the interpretation thereof should be addressed instead to departmental officials.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243844">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640518">Indeed. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640519">I'm looking for a volunteer from the department on this particular issue. I just need a show of hands of who would like to speak.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640520">Mr. Smith.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243846">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="273527" Type="28">Mr. Patrick Smith (Senior Analyst, Marketplace and Legislative Policy, Department of Canadian Heritage)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640521"> Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640522">I just want to get clarity on the specific portion we're discussing, so it's the part of subparagraph 3(1)(q)(i) that reads “in an equitable proportion, and”? Is that what we're discussing?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243847">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640523">Yes, it is.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243848">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="273527" Type="28">Mr. Patrick Smith</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640524">Okay.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640525">To a certain degree this will be interpreted by the CRTC. It's not a defined term. It's not indicated elsewhere in the act. It would be up for interpretation by the commission.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243850">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640526">Okay. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640527">I'm now going to go to Ms. Ien. Thank you for your patience.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243851">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="270529" Type="47">Ms. Marci Ien</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640528">Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640529">I appreciate Mr. Champoux pinpointing discoverability, among other things, in this amendment. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640530">I'm wondering if we might propose a subamendment to delete subparagraph (ii), because that seems to be the biggest issue here, “when programming services are supplied to them by other broadcasting undertakings”, and so forth?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243853">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640531">Just so I'm clear before I go to Mr. Champoux, under proposed subparagraphs 3(1)(q)(i) and 3(1)(q)(ii), you want to eliminate (ii) in its entirety? Is that good, Ms. Ien?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243856">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="270529" Type="47">Ms. Marci Ien</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640532">This seems to be the issue, yes.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243857">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640533">That would be your subamendment.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243858">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="270529" Type="47">Ms. Marci Ien</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640534">That's correct.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243859">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640535">Now we're on the subamendment. I'll going to Mr. Champoux and then Mr. Housefather.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640536">Mr. Champoux.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="40">(1240)</Timestamp>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243861">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640537">This provision has not yet generated any discussion. To my knowledge, it has not been identified as problematic, but I'd be curious to hear Ms. Ien's arguments on this subject.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640538">First of all, I'd like to return to what Mr. Smith said just now. I want to be sure about how things have been understood or might be understood with respect to the concept of equitable proportion. What we really want is adequate and satisfactory visibility for Canadian content and francophone content on online platforms. That's what we had in mind when we drafted this amendment.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640539">So I want to make sure that I understand it. According to the department, even though it is the CRTC that will interpret the act, will it be understood the way we intended?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243863">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640540"> I think the question was put to Mr. Smith, first, from the department, and then I'm going to follow that with Mr. Housefather.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640541">Mr. Smith.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243864">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="273527" Type="28">Mr. Patrick Smith</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640542">To answer the question, I agree with Mr. Champoux's statement that it's something that the act is striving towards and something that is obviously reflected in several other objectives of the act, as moved by the members of the committee on Friday, and today as well. The specific wording “in an equitable proportion” is something to be determined by the commission. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640543">I'm not sure what else I could add to that question.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243866">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640544">Mr. Housefather.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243867">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640545">Thank you, Mr. Chairman. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640546">I know I'm supposed to speak to Ms. Ien's subamendment, but I actually have a question, if it's okay.</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640547">I'm in agreement with what Mr. Champoux is trying to do with the new subparagraph 3(1)(q)(i).</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640548">I guess my real question for the department is that I'm not sure this amendment is in the right place in the act. Shouldn't these issues be dealt with under the order- and regulation-making powers of the commission, in which case, maybe Monsieur Champoux would be better placed to try to amend G-8 or G-9, which are coming up later? </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640549">If we wanted to achieve this, what would be the best place in the act to include, for example, proposed paragraph 3(1)(q) and proposed subparagraph 3(1)(q)(i)?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243870">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640550">Mr. Champoux—</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243872">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640551">Mr. Chair, my question is for the officials.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243874">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640552">I'm sorry. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640553">Can I go to the department? Mr. Smith, am I returning to you again?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243875">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="273527" Type="28">Mr. Patrick Smith</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640554">I think Mr. Ripley would like to answer this question.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243879">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="272100" Type="28">Mr. Thomas Owen Ripley</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640555">Thank you for the question, Mr. Housefather.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640556">There are indeed several objectives that address the importance of Canadian programming and French language programming, including original programs. It would appear that certain items in the amendment that has been put forward are instead addressing the tools that should be used to achieve these objectives. For example, conditions and the requirement for undertakings to ensure content discoverability were mentioned.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640557">So it's likely that it would be through a CRTC order or CRTC regulations that these requirements would be imposed on broadcasters.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243886">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640558"> I would just like to say that proposed subparagraph 3(1)(q)(ii) is meant to reflect paragraph 5(2)(a)(1) in subclause 4(1) of Bill <Document DbId="10926636" Type="3">C-10</Document>, which says that the CRTC must be fair and equitable in regulating as between broadcasting undertakings.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640559">So I think that it's altogether consistent to place it in that location as well.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243889">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640560">Just so that everyone is still aware, we're at the subamendment as proposed by Ms. Ien. Straightforward, as part of the subamendment, she proposes to eliminate proposed subparagraph 3(1)(q)(ii).</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640561">Seeing no further conversation, we'll go to the vote.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="45">(1245)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243893">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640562"> Mr. Chair—</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243894">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640563">Mr. Méla has interrupted me, most likely for a very good reason.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243896">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640564">You can determine whether or not it's a good reason, but thank you. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640565">I just want to point out that if the subamendment is adopted, there will be a problem with the French version. There would be a problem altogether, but more likely with the French version.</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640566">The French version would say "radiodiffusion devraient à la fois".</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640567">That includes (i) and (ii). Since you eliminate number (ii), you need to remove “à la fois”.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640568">Then you would need to remove the “(i)” in English and French.</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640569">The wording would therefore be as follows: "...radiodiffusion devraient assurer la découvrabilité des services...".</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640570"> In English, it would be “undertakings should ensure”, and then the “(ii)” would go as well. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640571">This is just to make sure we do this part at the same time, if it were the case that the amendment were adopted as amended.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243902">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640572">Ms. Dabrusin. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243907">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640573">Thank you. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640574">Because I've heard the conversation going back and forth, I want to clarify that we have from the department the answer about the “terms for the carriage” part of proposed subparagraph 3(1)(q)(ii) and whether that presents any challenges. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243910">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="273527" Type="28">Mr. Patrick Smith</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640575">Thank you, Mr. Chair. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640576">With respect to proposed subparagraph 3(1)(q)(ii), this is a fairly heavy requirement that would involve some intervention from the commission with respect to the packages, contractual arrangements and terms of carriage. If the committee is in support of an approach that would allow that, then it should be aware that this is what would come with proposed subparagraph (ii) as well. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243913">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640577">Okay. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640578">To recap, as Mr. Méla, our legislative clerk, pointed out, eliminating proposed subparagraph 3(1)(q)(ii) in the English version would require changes to both proposed subparagraph (i) and proposed subparagraph (ii) in the French translation. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640579">Mr. Méla, did I get that correct?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243917">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640580">Yes, Mr. Chair. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640581">I can recap, if you want, to show what the changes would be. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243919">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640582">Yes, please.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640583">I'll get Mr. Méla to recap, and then we can go to a vote if there's no further discussion. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" id="11243936">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="189949" Type="27">Mr. Philippe Méla</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640584">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640585">In French, we would have to remove “à la fois”.</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640586">So there would be the words "radiodiffusion devraient".</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640587"> We would remove “à la fois” and the full colon there. Then we would remove the “(i)” and the sentence would be one sentence.</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640588">And it would read as follows: "...radiodiffusion devraient assurer la découvrabilité des services...".</ParaText>
              <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640589">Then, in English, we would have to remove “(i)”, so that it would all flow as “undertakings should ensure”. Then, at the end, we should remove the “and” because there is no subparagraph (ii) anymore. The “and” would no longer apply at the end of subparagraph (i).</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243942">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640590">Now you have the language cleaned up, but the intent is still the same. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640591">Ms. Ien, I don't see any outright objection from you. I'm assuming you're okay with the explanation as put forward by Mr. Méla for your subamendment.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640592">Seeing no further discussion, we now go to a vote on the subamendment of BQ-10 from Ms. Ien. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640593">(Subamendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640594">
                <B>The Chair:</B> We now go back to the main motion. This is the main amendment, BQ-10. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640595">Mr. Housefather. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="50">(1250)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243965">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264219" Type="47">Mr. Anthony Housefather</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640596"> Mr. Chair, I think this is an amendment where a lot of these things are reasonable. I repeat that I don't think this is in the right place in the act. I also have one more question, which is with respect to the way the proposed paragraph 3(1)(q) is now worded. It says:</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640597">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara Align="Left" IndentFirst="2" IndentRest="2"> (q) online undertakings that provide the programming services of other broadcasting undertakings should</QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640598">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara IndentFirst="2" IndentRest="2"> (i) ensure the discoverability</QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640599">Does that not then lead to only online undertakings having this obligation and not other broadcasting undertakings? I'd like to ask the department, because I'm very confused about that wording. I don't think it creates an equilibrium anymore.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11243971">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="273527" Type="28">Mr. Patrick Smith</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640600">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640601">Thank you for the question, Mr. Housefather. You are correct. Currently in proposed section 9.1, which I'm sure we'll get to in a couple of days, there is a condition of service power relating directly to discoverability, and this is not circumscribed to any particular types of broadcasting undertakings. Therefore, introducing this objective in section 3 of the act could create a perceived conflict between those two sections.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244000">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640602">I have another question for the department, which is whether this amendment poses any trade concerns and what they would be.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244003">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="272100" Type="28">Mr. Thomas Owen Ripley</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640603">Thank you for the question, Ms. Dabrusin. I think I would reiterate the point that Mr. Smith made earlier. Proposed subparagraph 3(1)(q)(ii) indicates that the government's intention here is that, generally, in contractual arrangements between online undertakings and other programming services that they're distributing, the CRTC would play a very active role in the economic regulation of those contractual relationships. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640604">Our understanding would be that there's not to be a heavy reliance on market forces, but that the CRTC would play a role with an active supervision of those contractual relationships. It's fair to say that, for certain online undertakings, their business model is obviously very much weighted towards free market forces and they would certainly have concerns, it's fair to say, about the CRTC being empowered to play that active role in the regulation of their contractual relationships.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244020">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640605">Thank you.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640606">Seeing no further discussion, we'll have a vote on the main amendment, which is BQ-10.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640607"> (Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>])</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244027">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640608">We have BQ-11.</ParaText>
              <Timestamp Hr="12" Mn="55">(1255)</Timestamp>
              <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
              <ParaText id="6640609"> Mr. Champoux, you have the floor.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244042">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640610">Mr.Chair, once again, we are here trying to promote Canadian programming in both official languages and in indigenous languages, and to make sure that the various ways of controlling programming will generate results that enhance its discoverability.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640611">I think that it's an important addition, particularly if we want to place an emphasis on the discoverability of our content.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244064">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640612"> Go ahead, Ms. Dabrusin.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244066">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264218" Type="47">Ms. Julie Dabrusin</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640613">It might be just my reading of the wording, but I'm a little unclear as to whether what is being suggested by this amendment is the promotion of Canadian programming or that the programs themselves should be in both official languages as well as in indigenous languages.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640614">I am just wondering if maybe the department can clarify what the wording would do.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244074">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640615">I am looking for someone from the department to answer.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640616">Go ahead, Mr. Smith. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244076">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="273527" Type="28">Mr. Patrick Smith</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640617">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640618">Could I please have the language of the amendment again?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244078">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640619">Do you want the actual amendment read to you?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244079">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="273527" Type="28">Mr. Patrick Smith</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640620">Yes, please.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244080">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640621">Okay. Here is the English version of BQ-11. It is that Bill <Document DbId="10926636" Type="3">C-10</Document>, in clause 2, be amended by adding after line 26 on page 4 the following:</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640622">
                <Quote>
                  <QuotePara IndentFirst="2" IndentRest="2">(q) online undertakings must clearly promote and recommend Canadian programming, in both official languages as well as Indigenous languages, and ensure that any means of control of the programming generates results allowing its discovery; and</QuotePara>
                </Quote>
              </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244082">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="273527" Type="28">Mr. Patrick Smith</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640623">Thank you, Mr. Chair. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640624">I guess there are a couple of things relating to this, perhaps just relating to the way in which the words are presented. It's whether the requirement being imposed is that the promotion itself and the recommendations themselves be done in both official languages as well as indigenous languages, and then whether this is related more towards a discoverability requirement, as we discussed earlier. I guess I'm having a bit of a hard time following the intent of the amendment as well. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244095">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269424" Type="40">Mr. Martin Champoux</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640625">Thank you for allowing me to explain the intent.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640626">Through regulation, there would be obligations to present original Canadian content and original francophone content on platforms. We also have to make sure that the undertakings do promotion. For example, if you have subscribed to streaming services, you will probably occasionally receive emails suggesting audio or audiovisual material that you might be tempted to download or listen to. I want to make sure that in these promotional efforts by online undertakings and distributors there will still be visibility for our content.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640627">That's the intent of this amendment. I want Spotify and Apple Music to send content recommendations to our Canadian and Quebec artists.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244104">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640628">We have Mr. Shields. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244105">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264360" Type="47">Mr. Martin Shields</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640629">Thank you, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640630">When we have the word “clearly” in here, I am going to ask the staff if this in a sense is then leaving it to the commission to determine and define “clearly”. I can understand what “promote” means, but when we put “clearly” in there, to the staff, how would you interpret this? Is the commission going to interpret what “clearly” means?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244110">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640631">By “staff”, do you mean the department?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244112">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264360" Type="47">Mr. Martin Shields</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640632">Yes.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244114">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640634">From the department, I am looking for a volunteer. Mr. Smith?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640635">I'm sorry, Mr. Olsen. I'll let you decide. </ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244116">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="273526" Type="28">Mr. Drew Olsen (Senior Director, Marketplace and Legislative Policy, Department of Canadian Heritage)</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640636"> Thank you, Mr. Chairman.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640637">Thank you, Mr. Shields.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640638">Yes, that would be my interpretation. It would be up to the CRTC to determine what is “clearly” promoting and recommending.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Timestamp Hr="13" Mn="00">(1300)</Timestamp>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244122">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640639">All right. Seeing no further discussion on BQ-11, we will now go to a vote. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640640">Shall BQ-11 carry?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640641">(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5 [<I>See Minutes of Proceedings</I>])</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244125">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640642"> Folks, we're over time by one minute. I think we're drawing to a conclusion unless you all want to continue, and by the looks of all these faces and squares, I get the feeling you don't. </ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640643">Therefore, we'll pick up again on Friday. By the way, we're going to seek out another three-hour time slot for Friday, similar to last Friday. If that doesn't work out, we'll let you know, but we're going to seek out three hours as we did before. I'm assuming there will be no objections to that. When we pick up, we will go to NDP-8 on page 6 on Friday.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640644">Are there any further comments?</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244146">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640645">I have a question, Mr. Chair.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244148">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640646">Go ahead, Mr. Rayes.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244150">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640647">Can you explain what you just said? You said you wanted to have a three-hour meeting. But last week, the meeting began at 12:30 p.m. and ended at 4:00 p.m. The meeting therefore lasted three and a half hours. Are you saying that the meeting will begin at 1:00 p.m. and end at 4:00 p.m.?</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640648">Personally, that's what I would like. I believe that three hours is enough.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244152">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640649">I was thinking a 12:30 p.m. start, but if you want to go from 1:00 p.m. to 4:30 p.m....</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244154">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="264360" Type="47">Mr. Martin Shields</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640650">That's three and a half hours.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244155">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640651">Yes, it was three and a half hours, because we went up to four o'clock. We went from 12:30 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. I can't recall if there is.... I'm going to ask Aimée to help me out on this one, because I can't remember if four o'clock was a cut-off for technical reasons.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640652">Mr. Rayes, go ahead.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="FR">[<I>Translation</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244156">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269423" Type="40">Mr. Alain Rayes</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640653">Last Friday, the meeting lasted three and a half hours, not three hours. The meeting ran from 12:30 p.m. to 4:00 p.m.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640654">You mentioned just now that you were going to hold a three-hour meeting next Friday. Personally, that's what I would like, and I'll explain why. Because question period comes right before our meeting, it doesn't leave us very much time to have a little something to eat. It's important to eat at lunchtime after all. I think that it would be appropriate for the meeting to last three hours, meaning 1:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. and not 12:30 p.m. to 4:00 p.m.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
          <FloorLanguage language="EN">[<I>English</I>]</FloorLanguage>
          <Intervention Type="Interjection" ToC="No" ToCText="" id="11244159">
            <PersonSpeaking>
              <Affiliation DbId="269422" Type="35">The Chair</Affiliation>: </PersonSpeaking>
            <Content>
              <ParaText id="6640655"> Yes, I'm sorry. I confused the three and a half hours with the three. That's on me. You have my apologies.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640656">I have a proposal from one o'clock to four o'clock. Do I see any dissension among the ranks? No.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640657">How about we try for one o'clock to four o'clock, and if it doesn't work, I'll email an alternative. It's one o'clock to four o'clock eastern time—I should clarify that always—for this coming Friday to resume clause-by-clause on Bill <Document DbId="10926636" Type="3">C-10</Document>.</ParaText>
              <ParaText id="6640658"> We'll see you on Friday, hopefully at one o'clock eastern.</ParaText>
            </Content>
          </Intervention>
        </SubjectOfBusinessContent>
      </SubjectOfBusiness>
    </OrderOfBusiness>
  </HansardBody>
</Hansard>