AANR Committee Meeting

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

Meeting No. 59

Wednesday, April 2, 2003

The Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs, Northern Development and Natural Resources met in camera at 3:51 p.m. this day, in Room 237-C, Centre Block, the Chair, Raymond Bonin, presiding.

Members of the Committee present: Gérard Binet, Raymond Bonin, David Chatters, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin, Anita Neville, Julian Reed.

Acting Members present: Carmen Provenzano for Benoît Serré; Judi Longfield for John Godfrey; Dale Johnson for Maurice Vellacott; Garry Lunn for Brian Pallister; David Price for Julian Reed; Massimo Pacetti for Charles Hubbard; Massimo Pacetti for Anita Neville; Sue Barnes for Benoît Serré; Derek Lee for Julian Reed.

In attendance: From the Committees Branch: Stephen Knowles, Committee Clerk; Jeffrey LeBlanc, Legislative Clerk.

In attendance: From the Library of Parliament: Mary Hurley, Analyst.

The Committee proceeded to the consideration of its future business.

Debate resumed on the following motion – That, in the study of any business before the Committee, the discussion of each clause and each amendment, sub-amendment, or any other motion be limited to a ten minute introduction by the mover, followed by a single opportunity for each member of the Committee to discuss the clause, amendment, sub-amendment or any other motion for a maximum of 10 minutes, after which time the mover may answer questions raised for a further maximum of 10 minutes and that the vote then be taken.

Further, the Committee may, at the request of a member, allow for that member to speak for longer than the allotted 10 minutes by a vote of the majority of the members of the Committee.

It was moved – That the question now be put.

The Chair ruled that the proposed motion was out of order.

Whereupon, the decision of the Chair was appealed.

The question: “Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?” was put and the decision was overturned.

At 4:01 p.m., a lack of quorum being indicated, the sitting was suspended.

At 4:08 p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 4:22 p.m., a lack of quorum being indicated, the sitting was suspended.

At 4:23 p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 6:18 p.m., a lack of quorum being indicated, the sitting was suspended.

At 6:33 p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 7:10 p.m., the Chair interrupted a member for engaging in repetitious debate.

Whereupon, the decision of the Chair was appealed.

The question: “Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?” was put and the decision was sustained.

At 7:40 p.m., a lack of quorum being indicated, the sitting was suspended.

At 7:54 p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 9:26 p.m., a lack of quorum being indicated, the sitting was suspended.

At 9:27 p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 10:15 p.m., a lack of quorum being indicated, the sitting was suspended.

At 10:24 p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 10:25 p.m., a lack of quorum being indicated, the sitting was suspended.

At 10:39 p.m., the sitting resumed.

At 10:39 p.m., it was agreed – That the meeting be suspended to the call of the Chair.

At 10:59 p.m., the sitting resumed.

A point of order was raised asking the Chair to proceed to put the question.

The Chair agreed following ten (10) more minutes of debate.

Whereupon, the decision of the Chair was appealed.

The question: “Shall the decision of the Chair be sustained?” was put and the decision was sustained.

At 11:15 p.m., it was agreed – That the question now be put.

It was agreed – That, in the study of any business before the Committee, the discussion of each clause and each amendment, sub-amendment, or any other motion be limited to a ten minute introduction by the mover, followed by a single opportunity for each member of the Committee to discuss the clause, amendment, sub-amendment or any other motion for a maximum of 10 minutes, after which time the mover may answer questions raised for a further maximum of 10 minutes and that the vote then be taken.

Further, the Committee may, at the request of a member, allow for that member to speak for longer than the allotted 10 minutes by a vote of the majority of the members of the Committee.

At 11:16 p.m., it was agreed – That the Committee proceed to sit in public.

Pat Martin moved – That the House of Commons Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs request the immediate release of any and all legal opinions that the Government of Canada has either developed or commissioned regarding whether any aspect of Bill C-7 infringes upon or derogates from any existing aboriginal or treaty rights, and whether Bill C-7 will have any affect or impact on the over two hundred plus outstanding court cases between First Nations and the government of Canada.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived.

Pat Martin moved – That in light of the findings of the 2003 cross Canada hearings of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs I, Pat Martin move that this committee report back to the House of Commons a recommendation that Bill C-7 be withdrawn from the order paper and redrafted in consultation with representatives from the Assembly of First Nations.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Sue Barnes, Gerald Binet, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Derek Lee, Judi Longfield, Massimo Pacetti (8)

Pat Martin moved – That the House of Commons Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs do not proceed with the study of Bill C-7 or Bill C-19 until an official Gender Based Analysis (GBA) of these Bills is completed, and presented to the committee. These Gendered Base Analyses are to be done in accordance to the Status of Women Canada guidelines which responds to provisions in documents such as the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Federal Plan for Gender Equality, and the Canadian Human Rights Act.

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Sue Barnes, Gerard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Derek Lee, Judi Lonfield; Massimo Pacetti (8)

Charles Hubbard moved – That the following be adopted as the Committee’s schedule for Bill C-7 and Bill C-19:

Friday, April 4, 2003: Amendments submitted to the Clerk by 5:00 p.m.

Monday, April 7, 2003: Amendments delivered to all Members’ offices by 9:30 a.m.

Monday, April 7, 2003: Technical Briefing 7:00 p.m. (Room 104 Justice)

Tuesday, April 8, 2003: Clause by Clause

Wednesday, April 9, 2003: Clause by Clause

Thurday, April 10, 2003: Clause by Clause

Friday, April 11, 2003: Table Report to the House (Bill C-7)

BREAK WEEKS

Tuesday, April 29, 2003: C-19 in the a.m. and p.m.

Wednesday, April 30, 2003: C-19 in the p.m.

Thursday, May 1, 2003: C-19 in the a.m.

Tuesday, May 6, 2003: Clause by Clause (C-19)

Yvan Loubier moved – That notwithstanding Committee’s decision allowing a member ten (10) minutes to discuss any item of business before it, that he be allowed to talk beyond the ten (10) minute deadline.

The question being put on the motion, it was negatived by a show of hands:

YEAS: 2

NAYS: 8

Yvan Loubier moved – That the motion be amended by striking out the words “Friday, April 4”, and by substituting the following therefor: “Friday, April 11”, and that other dates mentioned in the motion be changed consequentially.

The question being put on the amendment, it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

NAYS: Girard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Derek Lee, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Judi Longfield, Massimo Pacetti (7)

After debate, the question being put on the motion, it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Gerard Binet, Stan Dromisky, Charles Hubbard, Derek Lee, Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Judi Longfield, Massimo Pacetti (7)

NAYS: Yvan Loubier, Pat Martin (2)

It was agreed – That working snacks ordered during the Committee's study of Bill C-7 be paid for from the Committee's budget.

It was agreed – That in relation to its study of Bill C-7, The First Nations Governance legislation, the committee retain the services of Jodie-Lynn Waddilove to summarize briefs at an hourly rate of $ 20.00 per hour, not to exceed 200 hours and a total cost of $4000.00 + GST.

At 1:59 a.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.

Elizabeth B. Kingston

Clerk of the Committee