SECU Committee Meeting

The Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security met in a televised session at 11:00 a.m. this day, in Room C-110, 1 Wellington Street, the Chair, Kevin Sorenson, presiding.

The Committee commenced its clause-by-clause study of the Bill.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of Clause 1 was postponed.

The Chair called Clause 2.

Clause 2 carried on division.

Clause 3 carried on division.

Clause 4 carried on division.

Clause 5 carried on division.

Clause 6 carried on division.

Clause 7 carried on division.

Clause 8 carried on division.

Clause 9 carried on division.

Clause 10 carried on division.

On Clause 11,

“and possess that kind of firearm; and

(c) in the case of a transfer to an individual, the transferor verifies the validity of the transferee’s licence with the Canada Firearms Centre, requests a confirmation from it that the firearm is neither a prohibited firearm nor a restricted firearm and obtains a reference number for the inquiry.”

RULING BY THE CHAIR

Bill C-19, in Clause 11, amends the Firearms Act to alter the conditions under which a person may transfer a firearm that is neither a prohibited firearm nor a restricted firearm.

The amendment attempts to insert conditions upon the transferor that would require the transferor to verify certain information with the Canada Firearms Centre, confirm certain other information and document the interaction by obtaining a reference number for the inquiry.

As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition, states on page 766:

“An amendment to a bill that was referred to committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.”

In the opinion of the Chair, the introduction of these conditions on the transferor is a new concept that is beyond the scope of Bill C-19 and is, therefore, inadmissible.

“(2) A business that carries on activities that include the manufacturing, buying or selling at wholesale or retail, importing, repairing, altering or pawnbroking of firearms that are neither prohibited firearms nor restricted firearms must

(a) keep records of transactions entered into by it with respect to such firearms in the prescribed form and containing the prescribed information;

(b) keep an inventory of all such firearms from time to time on hand at the place of business;

(c) produce the records and inventory for inspection at the request of any police officer or police constable or any other person authorized to enter the business;

(d) mail a copy of the records and inventory relating to the firearms to the Registrar; and

(e) keep the records for five years after a transaction takes place.”

RULING BY THE CHAIR

Bill C-19, in Clause 11, amends the Firearms Act to alter the conditions under which a person may transfer a firearm that is neither a prohibited firearm nor a restricted firearm.

The amendment attempts to insert conditions upon any business that carries on activities that include the manufacturing, buying or selling at wholesale or retail, importing, repairing, altering or pawnbroking of firearms to keep specific records of all transactions as well as detailed inventories to be provided upon request.

As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition, states on page 766:

“An amendment to a bill that was referred to committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.”

In the opinion of the Chair, the introduction of these conditions on such businesses is a new concept that is beyond the scope of Bill C-19 and is, therefore, inadmissible.

“and possess that kind of firearm; and

(c) in the case of a transfer to an individual, the transferor verifies the validity of the transferee's licence with the Canada Firearms Centre and obtains a reference number for the inquiry.”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it was beyond the scope of the Bill, as provided on page 766 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition.

After debate, Clause 11 carried on the following recorded division: YEAS: Jay Aspin, Candice Hoeppner, Ryan Leef, Rick Norlock, Brent Rathgeber, Wai Young — 6; NAYS: Dennis Bevington, Françoise Boivin, Nathan Cullen, Jasbir Sandhu, Francis Scarpaleggia — 5.

Clause 12 carried on division.

Clause 13 carried on division.

Clause 14 carried on division.

Clause 15 carried on division.

Clause 16 carried on division.

Clause 17 carried on division.

Clause 18 carried on division.

Clause 19 carried on division.

Clause 20 carried on division.

Clause 21 carried on division.

Clause 22 carried on division.

Clause 23 carried on division.

Clause 24 carried on division.

Clause 25 carried on division.

Clause 26 carried on division.

Clause 27 carried on division.

Clause 28 carried on division.

On new Clause 28.1,

Françoise Boivin moved, — That Bill C-19 be amended by adding after line 42 on page 9 the following new clause:

“28.1 Section 117 of the Act is amended by adding the following after paragraph (m): (m.1) regulating the keeping and destruction of records by businesses in relation to firearms that are neither prohibited firearms nor restricted firearms;”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it sought to amend sections of the parent Act not amended by the Bill, as provided on page 767 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition.

On Clause 29,

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it proposed the deletion of the clause, as provided on page 768 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition.

“shall, subject to subsection (3), ensure the destruction, no earlier than three years after the coming into force of section 23 of this Act, of all records in the Canadian Firearms Registry related to the registration of firearms that are neither prohibited firearms nor restricted firearms and all copies of those records under the Commissioner's control.

(2) Each chief firearms officer shall, subject to subsection (3), ensure the destruction, no earlier than three years after the coming into force of section 24 of this Act, of all records under their control related to the registration of firearms that are neither prohibited firearms nor restricted firearms and all copies of those records under their control.

(3) Before destroying the records referred to in subsection (2) or (3), the Commissioner of Firearms or a chief firearms officer, as the case may be, shall contact each province, territory, Indian band and self-governing Aboriginal community to ask whether they intend to create a registry for firearms that are neither prohibited firearms nor restricted firearms, and shall transfer, to any of those entities who indicate that they intend to create such a registry, those records within their control that relate directly or indirectly to that entity.

(4) For the purposes of this section, the Library and Archives of Canada Act and the Privacy Act do not apply with respect to the records referred to in subsections (1) to (3), or to their transfer or destruction.”

RULING BY THE CHAIR

Bill C-19, in Clause 29, stipulates that the Commissioner of Firearms as well as each chief firearms officer shall ensure that certain information related to the Canadian Firearms Registry be destroyed as soon as feasible.

The amendment attempts to insert conditions upon this process by directing the Commissioner of Firearms to contact all provinces, territories, Indian bands and self-governing Aboriginal communities to seek whether they intend to create a registry and transfer the information to those entities.

As House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition, states on page 766:

“An amendment to a bill that was referred to committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill.”

In the opinion of the Chair, the introduction of the transfer of this information to these entities is a new concept that is beyond the scope of Bill C-19 and is, therefore, inadmissible.

“must, subject to subsection (3), keep all records in the Canadian Firearms Registry related to the registration of firearms that are neither prohibited firearms nor restricted firearms and all copies of those records under the Commissioner's control.

(2) Each chief firearms officer must, subject to subsection (3), keep all records under their control related to the registration of firearms that are neither prohibited firearms nor restricted firearms and all copies of those records under their control.

(3) The Commissioner of Firearms or a chief firearms officer, as the case may be, must make available to each province, territory, Indian band and self-governing Aboriginal community, those records relating to firearms that are neither prohibited firearms nor restricted firearms that are within their control and that relate directly or indirectly to that entity, if the entity indicates that it intends to create a registry of those records.”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it was beyond the scope of the Bill, as provided on page 766 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition.

Clause 29 carried on the following recorded division: YEAS: Jay Aspin, Candice Hoeppner, Ryan Leef, Rick Norlock, Brent Rathgeber, Wai Young — 6; NAYS: Dennis Bevington, Françoise Boivin, Nathan Cullen, Jack Harris, Francis Scarpaleggia — 5.

Clause 30 carried on division.

On new Clause 30.1,

“30.1 The Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness must, within three years after the day on which section 29 of this Act comes into force, undertake an analysis of the cost to the federal government associated with the destruction by the Commissioner of Firearms of all records in the Canadian Firearms Registry related to the registration of firearms that are neither prohibited firearms nor restricted firearms, as well as all copies of those records, and must report to both Houses of Parliament on the particulars of that cost.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Jack Harris and it was negatived on the following recorded division: YEAS: Dennis Bevington, Françoise Boivin, Nathan Cullen, Jack Harris, Francis Scarpaleggia — 5; NAYS: Jay Aspin, Candice Hoeppner, Ryan Leef, Rick Norlock, Brent Rathgeber, Wai Young — 6.

On Clause 31,

“(2) Despite subsection (1), the Minister must, before any of the provisions of this Act comes into force and every two years after any provisions of this Act comes into force, conduct a review, in consultation with experts, of the classification of firearms under sections 84 and 117.15 of the Criminal Code, including any prescription of firearms or other weapons, components and parts of weapons, accessories, cartridge magazines, ammunition or projectiles as prohibited or restricted, and recommend the reclassification of such items as may be necessary in the interests of public safety.”

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Nathan Cullen and it was negatived on the following recorded division: YEAS: Dennis Bevington, Françoise Boivin, Nathan Cullen, Jack Harris, Francis Scarpaleggia — 5; NAYS: Jay Aspin, Candice Hoeppner, Ryan Leef, Rick Norlock, Brent Rathgeber, Wai Young — 6.

Clause 31 carried on the following recorded division: YEAS: Jay Aspin, Candice Hoeppner, Ryan Leef, Rick Norlock, Brent Rathgeber, Wai Young — 6; NAYS: Dennis Bevington, Françoise Boivin, Nathan Cullen, Jack Harris, Francis Scarpaleggia — 5.

On Short Title,

“1. This Act may be cited as the Risking Public Safety Act.”

The Chair ruled the proposed amendment inadmissible because it sought to amend the title of the Bill that, as provided on pages 770-771 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice, Second Edition, may only be amended if necessitated by other amendments made to the Bill.

At 12:32 p.m., Francis Scarpaleggia took the Chair.

At 12:35 p.m., Kevin Sorenson took the Chair.

After debate, the Short Title carried on division.

The Title carried on division.

The Bill carried on the following recorded division: YEAS: Jay Aspin, Candice Hoeppner, Ryan Leef, Rick Norlock, Brent Rathgeber, Wai Young — 6; NAYS: Dennis Bevington, Françoise Boivin, Nathan Cullen, Jack Harris, Francis Scarpaleggia — 5.

ORDERED, — That the Chair report the Bill to the House.

At 12:50 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 12:51 p.m., the sitting resumed.

On motion of Jasbir Sandhu, it was agreed, — That, pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the Committee consider the Supplementary Estimates (B) 2011-2012 under Public Safety and that the Committee invite the Minister to appear on or before December 1, 2011.

At 12:54 p.m., the Committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.