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Minutes of Proceedings

44th Parliament, 1st Session
Meeting 30
Thursday, June 16, 2022, 11:02 a.m. to 1:22 p.m.
In Camera
Presiding
Hon. Jim Carr, Chair (Liberal)

• Garnett Genuis for Doug Shipley (Conservative)
• Glen Motz for Raquel Dancho (Conservative)
• Sameer Zuberi for Paul Chiang (Liberal)
Library of Parliament
• Holly Porteous, Analyst
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Thursday, February 10, 2022, the committee resumed its study of the rise of ideologically motivated violent extremism in Canada.

At 12:26 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 12:35 p.m., the sitting resumed.

It was agreed, — That the draft report, as amended, be adopted.

It was agreed, — That the report be entitled: "The Rise of Ideologically Motivated Violent Extremism in Canada".

It was agreed, — That the Chair, clerk and analyst be authorized to make such grammatical and editorial changes as may be necessary without changing the substance of the report.

It was agreed, — That, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

It was agreed, — That dissenting or supplementary opinions be in Calibri 12-point font, left aligned, single-spaced, and be submitted electronically, in both official languages, to the clerk of the committee, not later than 5:00 p.m. on Friday, June 17, 2022.

ORDERED, — That the Chair present the report to the House.

Motion

Taleeb Noormohamed moved, — That the committee report the following to the House: That pursuant to section 118 (4)(b)(ii) of the Firearms Act (1998), the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security has decided not to conduct inquiries or public hearings into the proposed regulations tabled and referred to the committee on May 30th, 2022.

Debate arose thereon.

At 1:59 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 11:03 a.m., on Tuesday, June 21, 2022, the sitting resumed.

The committee resumed consideration of the motion moved on Thursday, June 16, 2022, which read as follows:

That the committee report the following to the House: That pursuant to section 118 (4)(b)(ii) of the Firearms Act (1998), the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security has decided not to conduct inquiries or public hearings into the proposed regulations tabled and referred to the committee on May 30th, 2022.

The question: "That the debate be now adjourned" was put and was negatived.

The debate continued.

At 11:29 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 12:25 p.m., the sitting resumed.

The debate continued.

At 1:31 p.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 11:01 a.m., on Thursday, June 23, 2022, the sitting resumed.

The committee resumed consideration of the motion moved on Thursday, June 16, 2022, which read as follows:

That the committee report the following to the House: That pursuant to section 118 (4)(b)(ii) of the Firearms Act (1998), the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security has decided not to conduct inquiries or public hearings into the proposed regulations tabled and referred to the committee on May 30th, 2022.

It was agreed, — That the debate be now adjourned.

It was agreed, — That the committee proceed to sit in public.

At 11:05 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 11:10 a.m., the sitting resumed in public.

Motion

Raquel Dancho moved, — That the committee study the allegations of political interference in the 2020 Nova Scotia Mass Murder investigation and communications and that the committee:

a) Hold a two-hour meeting to hear from RCMP Officials including:

i. Superintendent Darren Campbell, Support Services Officer, Nova Scotia RCMP;

ii. Assistant Commissioner Lee Bergerman, Nova Scotia RCMP;

iii. Chief Superintendent Chris Leather, Nova Scotia RCMP;

iv. Communications Director Lia Scanlan, Nova Scotia RCMP;

v. Senior communications manager Sharon Tessier, RCMP.

b) Hold a two-hour meeting to hear from:

i. Brenda Lucki, Commissioner of the RCMP;

ii. Former Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Bill Blair;

iii. Deputy Minister of Public Safety, Robert Stewart;

iv. Minister Blair's former press secretary, Mary-Liz Power;

v. Any other department officials involved in the 2020 Nova Scotia Mass Murder Investigation and communications.

c) And that these meetings be held no later than Thursday, June 30th, 2022.

At 11:13 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 11:22 a.m., the sitting resumed.

At 11:24 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 115(5), it was agreed that the committee continue to sit.

Amendment

Pam Damoff moved, — That the motion be amended:

by replacing the words “Hold a two-hour meeting” in paragraph (a) with the words “Hold a one-hour meeting”;

by replacing paragraph (b) with the following: “(b) Hold a one-hour meeting to hear from: i. Brenda Lucki, Commissioner of the RCMP“;

by replacing paragraph (c) with the following: “(c) Hold a one-hour meeting to hear from:

i. Former Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Bill Blair;

ii. Deputy Minister of Public Safety, Robert Stewart ”; and

by adding after paragraph (c) the following: “(d) and that the meeting be held following the Commissioner’s testimony at the Mass Casualty Commission”.

Subamendment

Alistair MacGregor moved, — That the motion be amended by adding the words “Deputy Commissioner, Brian Brennan ” after the words “Brenda Lucki, Commissioner of the RCMP”.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Alistair MacGregor and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Paul Chiang, Pam Damoff, Raquel Dancho, Dane Lloyd, Alistair MacGregor, Ron McKinnon, Kristina Michaud, Taleeb Noormohamed, Peter Schiefke, Doug Shipley, Tako Van Popta — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

At 11:45 a.m., the sitting was suspended.

At 12:16 p.m., the sitting resumed.

Subamendment

Ron McKinnon moved, — That the motion be amended by replacing the words:

"That the committee study the allegations of political interference in the 2020 Nova Scotia Mass Murder investigation and communications and that the committee:

a) Hold a one-hour meeting to hear from RCMP Officials including:

i. Superintendent Darren Campbell, Support Services Officer, Nova Scotia RCMP;

ii. Assistant Commissioner Lee Bergerman, Nova Scotia RCMP;

iii. Chief Superintendent Chris Leather, Nova Scotia RCMP;

iv. Communications Director Lia Scanlan, Nova Scotia RCMP;

v. Senior communications manager Sharon Tessier, RCMP.

b) Hold a one-hour meeting to hear from:

i. Brenda Lucki, Commissioner of the RCMP;

ii. Deputy Commissioner, Brian Brennan.

c) Hold a one-hour meeting to hear from:

i. Former Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Bill Blair;

ii. Deputy Minister of Public Safety, Robert Stewart.

d) and that the meeting be held following the Commissioner’s testimony at the Mass Casualty Commission."

with the words: "That the committee study the allegations of political interference in the 2020 Nova Scotia Mass Murder investigation and communications and that the committee hold one three-hour meeting that will include:

a) a panel to hear from the below officials from the Nova Scotia RCMP:

i. Superintendent Darren Campbell, Support Services Officer, Nova Scotia RCMP;

ii. Assistant Commissioner Lee Bergerman, Nova Scotia RCMP;

iii. Chief Superintendent Chris Leather, Nova Scotia RCMP;

iv. Communications Director Lia Scanlan, Nova Scotia RCMP;

v. Senior communications manager Sharon Tessier, RCMP.

b) A panel to hear from:

i. Brenda Lucki, Commissioner of the RCMP;

ii. Deputy Commissioner, Brian Brennan.

c) A panel to hear from:

i. Former Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Bill Blair;

ii. Deputy Minister of Public Safety, Robert Stewart.

d) and that the meeting be held following the Commissioner’s testimony at the Mass Casualty Commission".

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Ron McKinnon and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Pam Damoff, Alistair MacGregor, Ron McKinnon, Kristina Michaud, Taleeb Noormohamed, Peter Schiefke, Sameer Zuberi — 7;

NAYS: Raquel Dancho, Dane Lloyd, Doug Shipley, Tako Van Popta — 4.

Subamendment

Raquel Dancho moved, — That the motion be amended by replacing the words “that the committee hold one three-hour meeting” with the words “that the committee hold 2 hours meeting for the panel (a), one hour meeting each for the panels (b) and (c), with a 30-minute recess between each panel”;

That the motion be amended by adding after the words “ii. Deputy Minister of Public Safety, Robert Stewart” the following: “iii. a representative from the Prime Minister's office”; and

That the motion be amended by replacing the words “and that the meeting be held following the Commissioner’s testimony at the Mass Casualty Commission” with the words “and that the meeting be held on the Monday of the first week of the scheduled maintenance”.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Raquel Dancho and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Raquel Dancho, Dane Lloyd, Alistair MacGregor, Doug Shipley, Tako Van Popta — 5;

NAYS: Pam Damoff, Ron McKinnon, Kristina Michaud, Taleeb Noormohamed, Peter Schiefke, Sameer Zuberi — 6.

Subamendment

Dane Lloyd moved, — That the motion be amended by replacing the words “that the committee hold one three-hour meeting” with the words “that the committee hold one four-hour meeting”.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Dane Lloyd and it was agreed to.

Subamendment

Raquel Dancho moved, — That the motion be amended by adding to the witnesses list, after the words “ii. Deputy Minister of Public Safety, Robert Stewart” the following: “iii. a representative from the Prime Minister's Office who was involved at this time, and mentioned in the Halifax Examiner article”.

The question was put on the subamendment of Raquel Dancho and it was negatived on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Raquel Dancho, Dane Lloyd, Doug Shipley, Tako Van Popta — 4;

NAYS: Pam Damoff, Ron McKinnon, Taleeb Noormohamed, Peter Schiefke, Sameer Zuberi — 5.

Subamendment

Dane Lloyd moved, — That the motion be amended by adding after the words “and that the meeting be held following the Commissioner’s testimony at the Mass Casualty Commission” the following: “and that the meeting be held on Monday, July 25, 2022 or the day after the end of the first scheduled House of Commons critical infrastructure maintenance, whichever comes first”.

After debate, the question was put on the subamendment of Dane Lloyd and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Pam Damoff, Raquel Dancho, Dane Lloyd, Alistair MacGregor, Ron McKinnon, Kristina Michaud, Taleeb Noormohamed, Peter Schiefke, Doug Shipley, Tako Van Popta, Sameer Zuberi — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

After debate, the question was put on the amendment of Pam Damoff and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Pam Damoff, Alistair MacGregor, Ron McKinnon, Kristina Michaud, Taleeb Noormohamed, Peter Schiefke, Sameer Zuberi — 7;

NAYS: Raquel Dancho, Dane Lloyd, Doug Shipley, Tako Van Popta — 4.

After debate, the question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Pam Damoff, Alistair MacGregor, Ron McKinnon, Kristina Michaud, Taleeb Noormohamed, Peter Schiefke, Sameer Zuberi — 7;

NAYS: Raquel Dancho, Dane Lloyd, Doug Shipley, Tako Van Popta — 4.

The motion, as amended, read as follows:

That the committee study the allegations of political interference in the 2020 Nova Scotia Mass Murder investigation and communications and that the committee hold one four-hour meeting that will include:

a) a panel to hear from the below officials from the Nova Scotia RCMP:

i. Superintendent Darren Campbell, Support Services Officer, Nova Scotia RCMP;

ii. Assistant Commissioner Lee Bergerman, Nova Scotia RCMP;

iii. Chief Superintendent Chris Leather, Nova Scotia RCMP;

iv. Communications Director Lia Scanlan, Nova Scotia RCMP;

v. Senior communications manager Sharon Tessier, RCMP.

b) A panel to hear from:

i. Brenda Lucki, Commissioner of the RCMP;

ii. Deputy Commissioner, Brian Brennan.

c) A panel to hear from:

i. Former Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, Bill Blair;

ii. Deputy Minister of Public Safety, Robert Stewart.

and that the meeting be held on Monday, July 25, 2022 or the day after the end of the first summer scheduled House of Commons critical maintenance, whichever comes first.

At 1:15 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 115(5), it was agreed that the committee continue to sit.

Motion

Dane Lloyd moved, — That the committee do now adjourn.

The question was put on the motion and it was agreed to on the following recorded division:

YEAS: Pam Damoff, Raquel Dancho, Dane Lloyd, Alistair MacGregor, Ron McKinnon, Kristina Michaud, Taleeb Noormohamed, Peter Schiefke, Doug Shipley, Tako Van Popta, Sameer Zuberi — 11;

NAYS: — 0.

At 1:22 p.m., the committee adjourned to the call of the Chair.



Wassim Bouanani
Clerk of the committee